When I was in my prime racing, if someone pulled something like that on me or my team mate, they'd have more trouble coming than they bargained for. The suspension would have been the least of their trouble. That is not just a dick move, it is ffing dangerous and borderline criminal.

@facelesssman

10 ай бұрын

But don’t you know? They are Black. And yes, it’s all because of their race, that USA Cycling and event organizers allow that potentially deadly behavior! I hope the guy he injured Sue’s the shit put he and USA Cycling for the double standards afforded these guys!

@NathanLong

8 ай бұрын

Agreed. He should have gotten a lot longer suspension. These type of malicious actions and bad for the look of the sport and this isn’t the first time L3gion has done this type of stuff.

When you say that you understand Justin as he acted out of frustration because of all the hate, you have it backwards. When Legion started, they were very popular and hardly copped any criticism. Then the bullying by Legion started. The overly aggressive and at times outright dangerous riding. The threatening of other riders and taking out other riders. They organised their own crit for which they didn't invite strong teams. The same crit in which they fielded two teams as opposed to the one team all the other (already weaker) teams got. The same crit for which they didn't pay the prize money they promised. During all that the criticism started to grow and is still growing. It turned out that some riders on the teams aren't the greatest of personalities. Combined with all their talk and taking the moral high ground, the backlash they got was simply inevitable.

@JonathanCrain

10 ай бұрын

Eh, they were popular outside the peloton pretty quickly, but they won a lot and that puts a target on your back. The “frustration” piece is larger than just legion. If you don’t believe Justin has had an uphill battle in cycling, read all the blatantly racist comments on this video, and bear in mind I’ve deleted the worst ones already. It’s insane, and I’m sure this is a microcosm of what they’ve experienced over a lifetime. I’m not saying that excuses crashing someone on purpose. He should absolutely receive some kind of penalty for that. I am saying it’s worth zooming out and looking at the larger picture

@joshuaelundberg3333

10 ай бұрын

@@JonathanCrain let's look at that larger picture. 2012 Justin was with Astellas, signed a UCI contract with them. After Sunny King he just walked away from the team and said "see you later". Abandons his teammates and the team that had given him a roster spot where they could've given it to someone else more dedicated. That's not very Pro. The following year, 2013 they release the San Rafeal video. Huge response, exciting video and the first glimpse of the kind of shouldering we would come to see from them. The next few videos including some flagrant examples of bad riding by them on their way to the win. But obviously some cool wins there. FFWD several years and teams and you have the BLM fundraiser which resulted in rider contracts to guys like Ty Magner. Follow that with the Lambo team pictures, the fights, the "the peleton is dead to me" comment, Hernandez and now this. Don't include the fact that JW is happy to shoot his business partners in the foot if it benefits him. I'm keeping this high level. I'm sorry, but they've done enough the the uphill battle stuff is trumped by their own bad actions.

@jeronimosuarez7957

10 ай бұрын

​@@joshuaelundberg3333here's someone who knows the story well!

@mmfong297

10 ай бұрын

@@JonathanCrain Their riding style not only is bullying.. but their whole entire strategy by outnumbering other teams is ridiclous. They have riders who purposely block others with 1-2 laps to go.. Now based on Justin's repeatable behavior like this one.. I don't know if this guy has a criminal record, but if he does, USAC should reconsider making him CAT1 instead of PRO

@mindfreebodyfree5770

10 ай бұрын

@@JonathanCrain Wow! Maximum respect! Not only that you are not buying into all this questionably motivated hate tirades against the Williams brothers. You even raise your voice. Thank you very very much! I personally find it very sad that those brothers attract so much hatred. Obviously the word "diversity" alone puts people into a rage. Now two black athletes that symbolize diversity pushes some folks over the top. You can find dozens of hate videos against the brothers posted by the crit racing community. They definitely have the target on their back, as you said it. Based on the comments the usual aversion is clearly motivated by racism. Although most would play it down by saying they simply hate their style. It's there with other sports too. NHL is a good example too. Many say blacks should leave ice hockey for the whites. Even the analysts openly spread their hate while on TV. They should go and play basketball and so on. However, I highly appreciate that you voice your opinion which is against the mainstream. You rather keep it real instead of making false friends here on KZread. You really appear to be a smart and nice guy. Thank you very m much!

JW is single handedly giving the sport of crit racing a bad name. His marketing strategy of "everybody versus us" and "F the peloton - we're better" is a strategy based in negativity, not the positivity they claim. I've decided that JWs basically blowing smoke all the time. - But let's talk about how USAC is letting this behavior continue with their super soft suspensions. Justin is getting 60 days in the spring. It does nothing. USAC is the real problem here. The CEO acts like he's surprised there are fights in crits because the guy is out of touch. Justin attempted to basically cause bodily injury on another rider. He needs to be banned for a year, guy is a danger to the sport.

@JonathanCrain

10 ай бұрын

I wouldn't say he's doing it "single handedly". There are certainly others riding dangerously and aggressively. There's a lot of genuine animosity flying around and it's not just coming from Legion, but they are leading the arms race.

@JavierAcosta-fd4rd

10 ай бұрын

USA Cycling has its priorities straight. Diversity is our greatest moral imperative.

@joshuaelundberg3333

10 ай бұрын

I agree actually, but he's the name sponsor's will see and hear about. And I don't necessarily mean his sponsors. @@JonathanCrain

@joshuaelundberg3333

10 ай бұрын

@@JavierAcosta-fd4rd I disagree on diversity being the greatest moral imperative in the sport. It can always be better, but this is one of the more diverse sports in the country I believe. I've raced all over and although there are pockets where diversity lacks, I find that most of the time I'm racing or riding with people of different ethnicities and from many different countries. And I've made more friends who aren't white thanks to cycling more so than any other avenue in my life. The American crit racing scene is full of black and white people, as well as people from the Caribbean, south and central America, Europe and even Alabama (we hesitate to call Alabama a US state -they're just different am I right). I think women are facing bigger challenges in this sport at the moment. Btw, I thought Legion was going to be having more black riders on their team, I think they only have Justin and Cory at the moment and sort of CJ, not counting Dante on Blazers though.

@joshuaelundberg3333

10 ай бұрын

@@JavierAcosta-fd4rd Usac would say their priorities are getting riders to the world tour to grow the sport in the us (they tried that before with LAJORS) and gold medals on the velodrome. But their strategies for that are off too. Can't get a team to qualify for the olympics if there's not enough velodromes to take advantage of the large US talent pool. But they don't bother focusing on building velodromes or raising capital. They've even taken a backseat from how they used to support crit racing because this discipline is doing a better job on its own. USAC doesn't take the time to listen to members or "read the room" very well.

Justin is running L3gion's reputation into the ground, one display of lack of sportsmanship at a time.

@justluigi2915

10 ай бұрын

He’s a punk and doesn’t deserve to race at all! If Legion cared about this sport at all, they would take care of this themselves. But they won’t. Diversity and inclusion at all costs! Tells you all you need to know about Legion.

@JonathanCrain

10 ай бұрын

@@BufordDuckworth I'm not sure I'd put that squarely on Justin alone, but that wasn't a good look for sure.

@iMadrid11

10 ай бұрын

⁠@@JonathanCrain The people who organized the event should take responsibility of awarding the promised prize money. Justin Williams should take the financial loss instead of pointing the blame (as usual) to somebody else besides himself.

@ronskayakingandfishing414

10 ай бұрын

It's not just Justin, but I believe I've seen similar bullying tactics from other L3gion riders. It's crap, and the suspensions should be longer. Having multiple suspensions for this stuff should end in disbarment. I have absolutely no respect for L3gion based on the multiple videos I've seen of their BS tactics.

@ChromeLuxx

10 ай бұрын

!@@ronskayakingandfishing414 EXACTLY

You know what? Presenting this in such a level headed way earned my subscription. This is actual journalism instead of the garbage everyone else puts out meant to maximally trigger people's emotions for likes. Bravo

Way too light of a punishment, looks to me he deliberately crashed the other rider. Horrible sportsmanship!

Looks like L3gion is the Kobra Kai of Crit racing. That is such a flagrant violation riding him half the width of the road off to the outside curb is just disgusting. That could easily end up in serious injury and if there is intent to injure the guy should lose a season.

@greyspaniard

10 ай бұрын

Sweep the bike, Justin!

@3450robert

10 ай бұрын

“Kobra Kai of Crit racing” … LOVE IT.

@derekkirkland7016

10 ай бұрын

It's assault.

This is disgusting. He didn't even attempt to ride the corner. He rode straight to the barriers. Legion has lost me as a fan for life. I hope they lose sponsors too.

I would also want to see a written apology by Justin to the other rider before he returns to racing

@Craze_Lifter

10 ай бұрын

Well his PR team scripted and uploaded it to instagram

I really liked what L3gion was doing when they first got started. But after a year or 2 of watching their videos it became utterly clear that they had zero concern for the welfare of anyone else they were racing, it was just win at all costs and if someone goes down that's their problem. Even worse it spreads into amateur racing when that's what newer racers are looking at as their role model. Like you said, if that's the mentality then we can't have a sport. So as far as I'm concerned, I want nothing to do with L3gion anymore.

@brunospasta

10 ай бұрын

What do you mean "it spreads into amateur racing". This is amateur racing, no?

@andrewbmoss

10 ай бұрын

@@brunospasta No, L3gion are a Pro team. But then amateur racers watch their videos, see how they race and hear what they consider 'proper racing' and try to race the same way with less skill. The results are bad for everyone.

@karl8805

10 ай бұрын

​@@andrewbmoss"pro" team that races amateurs... They literally race teachers and truck drivers so they win... Come to the uk and do tour of britain and see how well they do

@matthewbaluyut9042

9 ай бұрын

@@karl8805 alright chill out loser. Its riding bikes. You're not a pro so chill out. Awesome contribution to the discussion nerd. You live in the UK . . . cool.

@mindfreebodyfree5770

9 ай бұрын

That's a troll story. Since when do they participate in races for teachers and truckers? What is the purpose of your message? They don't compete in cat 5 or 3 races. That's just nonsense hate propaganda.

A slap on the wrist conveniently up the week before Tulsa. Ban him for life. Criminal actions (intent to injure) has no place in any sport.

@johndidier7849

10 ай бұрын

Like Your passionate philosophy 📣

@brienmiller1005

10 ай бұрын

I'm sure the Tulsa timing was a coincidence. After watching a teammate go down in a crit and break a hip as a result of a deliberate move that also took down about 30 other riders after the race I went to make a complaint to the head referee, only time in my racing career that I did such a thing, and he was so freaking annoyed at me. The incident happened on the front straight in front of the announcing/scoring stand right in his face. He couldn't have cared less.He angrily scribbled down my complaint and that was the end of that. Two weeks later another of my teammates got fined and threatened with suspension for arguing with another racer after a road stage because he cussed at the other guy within earshot of an official. I'm surpised actually that USAC took any action against Justin.

@sparkymac3320

8 ай бұрын

Agree. He would fit right in with MMA.

@drbell7631

7 ай бұрын

100%

@drbell7631

7 ай бұрын

Justin's Must Be Banned a Yr At Least 10yrs B Better

That’s a crazy video to watch. Currently sitting with a broken wrist/hand/collar bone and collapsed lung from a race incident, awaiting a stack of hospital bills. I’ve always loved seeing these guys at armed forces and watching all the videos, but that clip is insanity. I don’t care what has happened in the race; if you take someone all the way across the road like that and they are badly injured, you deserve something severe that drastically effects your life, just like the person that was hurt.

Imagine having the best team with the most resources and doing this shit to secure a win. Just a shame

@joshuaelundberg3333

10 ай бұрын

UHC did some dirty stuff, but never this dirty.

This will single handily kill professional crit racing in the states if they continue to act like this. Incredible athletes but man they really need a reality check when it comes to racing hard but safe.

@mattlogan1

10 ай бұрын

As a newcomer to the sport, crit racing just seems like a crash fest. Pass.

@mindfreebodyfree5770

10 ай бұрын

There are tons of reckless riders out there that cause many mass crashes. There are crashes in every race because some behave like maniac idiots, like throwing bottles in the wheels, spitting, boxing, trash talking, throwing bikes and even pissing on other riders. That's the daily bread. But the black Williams brother "single handedly" bring the sport down. The motivation behind the criticism is obvious. I wonder if you really believe what you say or if you at night realize that you are just lying to yourself. You just hate.

Good analysis. It's sad that they are becoming more known for this than winning.

@JonathanCrain

10 ай бұрын

You aren’t allowed to post reasonable comments like this Matt. All comments on this video must be insane and/or racist.

Justin should be banned for a whole season from crit racing. This kind of behavior is so repulsive, ruins the sport for everyone

The suspension should have been immediate. The Williams brothers are just flat-out dangerous and reckless.

I know riding criterium is a tough race. But I believe everyone has to hold there line. Cutting in front of each other is completely different than fighting for positions

@jimsonjohnson3761

10 ай бұрын

Not sure what you're saying in the slightest beyond the simple knowledge that yes cutting in front of someone is in fact different than fighting for positions

UF’d JW and L39gion when he went after NorCal cycling.

@willridesabike6312

10 ай бұрын

Jeff has no business commenting on us, the best crit racers in the country. He's just a parking lot crit racer. Proceeds to F off down to a country that can't even muster a parking lot crit to win their national road title.

This just popped into my feed, and I am not familiar with this team or race, but that is one of most flagrant examples of trying to harm a competitor that I’ve ever seen in cycling. Two months is definitely too light - and even a permanent ban does not seem unreasonable to me.

It is sad because Legion really has made their brand toxic to many people. Their message is great but their actions don’t line up.

@JonathanCrain

10 ай бұрын

I think it’s a mixed bag. I know they’ve actually had a huge positive influence. I think the positive actually outweighs the negative, but you can’t watch a video of someone intentionally causing a crash out of spite and go “well I like that team, so it’s fine.” That’s the kind of uncritical hero worship that had a lot of people riding the Lance train to the end of the tracks.

@stuartdryer1352

10 ай бұрын

​At least in the case of Lance Armstrong it was clear that all of his chief rivals doped too, even if they were a bit more low key. But this seems to be a Legion speciality. Remember how UCI seemed to protect Lance (to protect the sport's image and $)? Could one argue that USAC is doing the same thing for Justin Williams with this trivial "penalty"?

Just 2 months for taking someone out is insane. I don't understand why anyone does crits when intentional and unintentional crashes are so common

Justin was riding that way the year he won nationals. He would take a line he couldn’t hold and take the rider he was passing to the outside curb. Watch the video he took to see what I’m talking about. He should have been DQ’d for his ridding that day instead he won nationals.

@scottbaker5851

10 ай бұрын

He's been doing this since he was a cat 3.

At some point, as a repeat offender who clearly doesn't learn, you should be faced with longer and longer penalties.

Yikes. Not a good look. All it takes is Spesh to pull their sponsorship and the rest will fall off. Dude has to think about what he built and simply be proud of it. I understand he’s also trying to protect it as well and get results for the sponsors but man you gotta use your head in these situations. Think about the kids coming up into this sport. You have to win with grace but also be able to lose with grace as well. It’s a fundamental of life that all kids need to learn.

Reading the comments and you keeps defending him. Countless clips of him endangering riders and plenty of him forcing crashes. Should be perma banned. What will it take? Another rider to suffer serious injury at the hand of his ego?

@JonathanCrain

10 ай бұрын

I’m not defending him in this instance. He’s on the wrong here, I’m just trying to keep the discourse from getting flattened down to, “legion good” or “legion bad”. Because the reality is way more complicated than that

@mindfreebodyfree5770

9 ай бұрын

@@SweetLike This is not about defense. He did wrong here and was penalized for it. The penalty alone tells us that he was wrong. But the hate that is going on here is a different story and has nothing to do with the question if the penalty was right or wrong. Nobody ever said that the penalty was wrong. He was penalized according to the official UCI rule book. The story should end here. But it doesn't. People just go too far. I never experience this kind of hate for other riders that even caused more critical crashes with heavy injuries. Nobody cares. Nobody cares about the scammers that show up full to the brim with illegal and performance enhancing substances. Nobody cares. That's the point. We don't witness a crime here. But it's ridiculously inflated to something big as if he had raped and killed a little blond innocent girl. What happened is not nice, nobody said something different. What happened is not exceptional. Everybody knows it. It's literally part of the sport like every other sport has to deal with foul play. This foul play should be treated in the same way other foul plays are treated. The black brothers should be treated like every other athlete.

Thanks for taking out the time to do this video and give people insight into this product

"You're willing to endanger the lives of other racers, but don't worry - go ahead and continue racing this year and get a slap on the wrist for next year" Definitely too light. Should have brought out a lifetime ban after so many incidents

Justin single handedly fumbling the bag… Rapha and Specialized are going to pull out and cut their sponsorship.

Legion really need a social media and marketing manager to save them from self distraction and undoing all the good and potential good they could do for crit racing. Sure, USAC should step up with heftier penalties, but equally Legion should address things from within if they’re going to survive, like the infamous bike stomp post crash at Tulsa, legion should of made an example of that rider and showed they don’t stand for that behavior. On the recent Roadman podcast Cory mentions how they get a bad wrap due to cameras, because back in the day everyone used to act like them but it was never filmed. They also said about the late payouts from the lions den last year “don’t race in Europe than” . They need take accountability and stop saying “we’ll they did it so it’s ok” they’re acting like little kids and I can see their sponsors dropping them before they know it

@JonathanCrain

10 ай бұрын

I think their early success with social media and authenticity is kinda coming back around to bite them. They do legitimately get a ton of unwarranted hate, and actual racist bullshit (scroll through the comments here and count the racist dogwhistles). I get that would drive some frustration and anger, but you can’t turn that into stomping bikes and putting people in the gutter.

@mindfreebodyfree5770

10 ай бұрын

@@JonathanCrain This blatant racism makes me sick. No joke. Those people are disgusting. Only spread negativity and hate. Just read through the comments for 10 minutes and you feel dirty and depressed. I'm done for today. Enough KZread for he rest of the week. I wish there was a filter to block out this hate bubble. Thank you for being honest and straight. It really makes me happy that you stand up! Most people post Legion videos to promote hatred these days and to provide a platform to allow this hatred to resonate. Thank you for being you!

@whatscreenname

8 ай бұрын

@@JonathanCrainPlease show me ONE

@JonathanCrain

8 ай бұрын

@@whatscreenname A bunch of people using the word "thug" like they're Bill O'Riley in 1997. The worst ones I deleted.

Wow that's crazy. I've seen videos where I totally thought they went over the edge of what is safe and acceptable, gatekeeper at the back, argy bargy with many for no reason...other than to just be the big dog. This is absolutely unnecessary and I feel the suspension is not near enough. Would it be longer if Gibbons was in a body cast, maybe Justin breaks something too? Seems they felt, no harm no foul. June 4th? Sounds like Tulsa Tough is still in play :) Like you I love what Legion has done, but they do have a bit of a rough / young side to them at times. Oh and I figured the CRIT thing was probably not USA permitted. *shrug*

@JonathanCrain

10 ай бұрын

There's a lot that I didn't include in the video partially because I can no longer cite it as Gibbons has deactivated his IG, but he did have a $4,000+ medical bill from the incident. About $2,000 of it he had to come out of pocket on. He posted some receipts on his IG last week that I did see.

@gattmolson

10 ай бұрын

@@JonathanCrain Wow, that's freaking nuts. If this is what crit racing is like why would anyone do it?

@joshuaelundberg3333

10 ай бұрын

@@gattmolson and that is the reason why a 60day penalty isn't enough.

@gattmolson

10 ай бұрын

@@joshuaelundberg3333 Because he keeps breaking the rules and last years suspension didn't seem to work.

@joshuaelundberg3333

10 ай бұрын

@@gattmolson The usac CEO said in his statement, "if we have to be the police, we will be the police". This blew my mind, he didn't realize that USAC as the governing body has to dole out punishments for racing incidents that break the rules. It's been an ongoing problem for a long time. I'm actually ok with a fight after a race. But purposely taking someone to the barriers goes too far.

Funny how the internet talks about these guys as if they were great bike racers though we know they get smoked by any world tour pro 😢

@OUTDOORS55

10 ай бұрын

Cory was dropped after 10 minutes in the MD classic this past weekend. He then quit half way through 😂 He's not even close to being talented enough for actual bike racing.

@joshuaelundberg3333

10 ай бұрын

@@OUTDOORS55 I saw that. Team Skyline had riders that lasted longer.

@Eramsay121

10 ай бұрын

@@joshuaelundberg3333 Skyline has guys who aren't afraid to race in Europe too lol

At the speeds these guys ride and the very limited protection the riders wear, crashing someone out can be life threatening (maybe an extreme assessment.) Given the potential seriousness (remember Fabio Jakobsen and the Polish tour), I wouldn't be opposed to a more severe punishment. But then there is the issue of intent vs. just a racing incident.

@marcfarrelly5944

10 ай бұрын

He didn't intend to hurt him but he did intend to put him out of the race which he should have known could have the same consequence. He didn't hold his line, it was intentional, unfortunately it's just not in the states that bans are lenient for this BS behaviour.

@derekkirkland7016

10 ай бұрын

@@marcfarrelly5944 100% intentional assault.

That's why I always liked road races..

@JonathanCrain

10 ай бұрын

Here’s the thing though, you could do this exact thing in a road race. Getting your bars in front and taking someone to the curb intentionally isn’t a function of a crit race. I actually had someone try to do this to me at the Tour of Tuscaloosa road race many years ago because he was trying to shut the front down so that we wouldn’t chase his team mate. Luckily there was no curb on the road at that moment, so I went into the dirt and went around him cyclocross style and kept chasing, but the move was exactly the same.

@NeverTakeNoShortcuts

10 ай бұрын

@@JonathanCrain Of course. You can get chopped anywhere in a race, but crit corners are just so numerous and it’s a little easier to do it in a more subtle way, don’t you think? (Not that this was subtle!)

Legion loses sponsorship

Back in the day, it seemed clear that UCI turned an intentionally blind eye to Lance Armstrong. His cancer story and amazing success was too good to pass up and meant $$ and increased eyes on the sport. Is USAC doing the same thing with Justin Williams' dangerous behavior and this "penalty"? At least in Lance's case, all his main rivals were also doping. Question: If a different rider had made a move that ridiculous and caught on video, what sanction would they receive from USAC? Let me just add, if this kind of thing becomes the norm, I would strongly discourage anyone from taking up the sport, Race gravel instead. Or do triathalon, but don't risk a traumatic brain injury.

Yeah, any team that glorifies contact and uses a sweeper that barges any challengers off the course doesnt deserve any love. Dirty tactics and foul play shouldn't have a place in the sport.

Is anyone surprised? To them it’s all fun and games until someone seriously gets hurt. Who recalls them bragging about CJ being a great “sweeper” in the Ontario GP business park crit? An illegal and dangerous move for what reason? The suspension is a slap on the wrist for these guys and it’s not going to change their dangerous and intentional acts in racing.

@JonathanCrain

10 ай бұрын

Sweeping is fine, but sitting on your sprinters wheel and running someone into the curb are two different things.

@marksimon23238

10 ай бұрын

@@JonathanCrain Exactly! Thank you! Now can someone explain that to those guys because they don’t seem to take their role model change for the better leadership status that seriously. A lot of up and coming kids and newbies are thinking it’s cool to pull these dangerous moves.

Fined for cussing? Shit, I'd be kicked out the first race! Hahaha

@JonathanCrain

10 ай бұрын

I think it was partially because the exchange was with fans, and some of it is on film somewhere. I’ve certainly lobbed some F bombs in the heat of the moment.

@augustgames6502

10 ай бұрын

​@@JonathanCrainI mean, who wouldn't cuss in that situation?

@scottbaker5851

10 ай бұрын

I've cussed out a usa cycling official and never been fined.

And of course he puts out a statement that takes zero responsibility again. Legion are trying to do a lot of great things, but this whole 'our shit don't stink' bullsh*t is so played out and undermines lots of what they are trying to do. His whole attitude is that he does some good things so he shouldn't have to take ownership of the shitty things he does. And how on earth is a second suspension SHORTER than the first? Surely escalating penalties should be in order?

@marksimon23238

10 ай бұрын

Completely agree. It’s BS that USA Cycling is suspending him next year so he can race his CRIT championship race in Florida in October.

While I'm not a Legion fan, for the most part their team is strong and plays well - unfortunately it's their 3 leaders (in my option) Justin, Cory & Kendall that I have issues with due to their "riding styles" that puts them in a negative light and why I would not support the team .... Justin got off light, it should have been a year suspension, not just from racing but from the teams daily on-goings as well

There's no excuse for that action. Absolutely ugly. Not sure what I'd do if domeone did that to me in the heat of a race. It's really sad. Hopefully Justin finds a decent way to redemption.

That's a weak penalty for for what appears to be intentional aggression and attempting to cause harm -- how about $1000 and a year starting immediately?

@JonathanCrain

10 ай бұрын

The fine was actually over 2k from what I’ve heard

At this point, just ban Justin from the sport permanently. This is just another incident it what's become a habit for these guys. Justin's(and to a lesser extent the rest of the team) antics are threatening to overshadow any good they might be doing for the sport.

@JonathanCrain

10 ай бұрын

I think that’s probably an overcorrection

@joelederer

10 ай бұрын

Maybe. I'm sure they're not the only ones doing dangerous stuff, but they're definitely the most visible. I feel like he got off with a slap on the wrist for this. @@JonathanCrain

@mmurmurjohnson2368

10 ай бұрын

Racing, be it in cars, on horses, or on bikes, when not done in single file lanes is warfare, full stop, racers get heated, often in direct correlation to racers' talent level, don't be deceived, it's in the DNA of the sport. Having said that, because the inherent dangers, you need penalties in place strong enough to deterrent and curb the killer instinct

@ronm9357

10 ай бұрын

😂

@joshuaelundberg3333

10 ай бұрын

That's where USAC has failed. Did you see Connor's attempt to bump a rider into the curb at Boise and crash himself out instead. That was insane, but nothing happens. @@mmurmurjohnson2368

When there are still races left in the season that he'd be doing, the timing seems a bit strange. I guess they wanted to make sure he misses out on a full 2 months of racing?

Crashes can be very serious and put people out for months. I had a bad crash in a race when an inexperienced but strong cyclist accidently crashed everyone in our small group of ~10 going for a sprint and it cost me 5days in hospital, 6months off work and 18months until I got back to my old level. Just not worth it. Let the legs do the talking. If u or ur teammate get beat who cares! Just train and race harder and smarter next time.

@johndef5075

10 ай бұрын

Why I dont race anymore. Its not worth it if you arent a pro. Especially with idiots like these around.

Suspension is too light and Justin should fuck off from the sport if he’s going to be a piece of shit in it. No matter what you’ve done for the sport, you can pack your bags when your start intentionally crashing people out. With it being his second consecutive year with a suspension it should be twice as long off the rip from what it’d typically be.

Should be a year long suspension.

I did a lot of Crits in the 90's and then again in the 2010's. Is this something new? I do not recall any other riders having this type of issue or reputation. Are there any other riders in your recollection that have done something similar on purpose? Why is this not penalized more severely? This is a real problem in sport which is already dangerous enough. After all, this was not the final sprint, or even the last lap lead out. It was a few laps from the finale. A very, very bad look.

That was a completely dickhead move by a repeat offender. J Williams deserves at least a one year suspension, and not just that embarrassingly feeble slap on the wrist.

I agree. There is a Fine line between Tactical riding and Putting someone down. It is so easy To die in any Bicycle accident/Spill. Come on JW keep the respect you have earned on the bike. Suck it up and keep encouraging the youth in the sport positively

That's just plain bullying behaviour of Legion. 2 month is not enough of a penalty. A deliberate intent to push ut someone with risk of taking down should result in a one year ban atleast. Of course things can happen in a race but all i see is Legion applying this tactic as a rule and not by accident.

Good commentary on the video! Absolutely infractions like this cannot go unchecked.

well if it had been a lamppost and not just a curb, and resulted in death...what would you call Williams?

@JonathanCrain

10 ай бұрын

What?

@mindfreebodyfree5770

9 ай бұрын

What if the guy had fell on a spectator? And this spectator had a suitcase that contains the hot button to launch an airstrike of atomic missiles? And this spectator actually had fell on his case to activate the button? What if this airstrike had hit the moon to throw it off its orbit? And what if this moon had crashed on an alien planet to eliminate a complete alien life form? What if the spectator with the suitcase had farted after falling on his case? Wouldn't the smell be too terrible to bear now that the moon is gone and the darkness became too dark? Because if we lose the visual sensation our smelling sense becomes more sensitive?

All I’m thinking is that Aus needs to get in line with the USA crit scene. This is next level cool.

Goon. Paid out the prize money yet?

@JonathanCrain

10 ай бұрын

The main person who was vocal about not getting paid has since been popped for doping. No real moral high ground there.

@highfieldshed763

10 ай бұрын

Nice whatabout there.. She got popped for doping long after not getting paid. The doping has nothing to do with this guy not paying out a win on race day.... Or ever.

@notreally2406

10 ай бұрын

​@@JonathanCrainirrelevant

@mindfreebodyfree5770

9 ай бұрын

@@JonathanCrain Correct. She got paid. And was sentenced to pay back the prize money as she lost the title. She refused to pay the money back. She never did. She effectively stole it. She started the defamation campaign about Legion not paying here although at that point she knew quite well she was not deserving the win at all. Nobody cares. Instead she is declared the victim and receives the full sympathy of this community. In general nobody cares about people doing wrong. Except the people are black cyclists. thanks for bringing up that Olivia Ray is the only evil beast in this story. The fact that Legion receives that deep hatred proves that there is a lot to be done in terms of diversity and equality. We can say that Legion already did a lot because they literally sacrificed their reputation to expose the blatant racism that dwells and flourishes in the cycling community. Now this racism can no longer be condemned, disguised and belittled as a myth when less relevant athletes complain about it.

We all know how dirty are the Williams, really rude and they don't care if someone else fall of the bike... It is what is

This smells like that half drank protein shake bidon that I found a week ago in the garage from early July. Cali-based racer that won't have to come South at the beginning of the season, for races other team members represent in (Speed Week, Sunny King, etc). But oddly is available "just in time" for Tulsa, an event where they typically feature as a team. Sure, go ahead and take a sip.

They need to make the courses more technical to reduce the benefits of team drafting and stop this excessive fight for a single line of wheels. This nascar style racing will always lead to excessive body use to fight for draft.

is your intro a parquet courts song?

@JonathanCrain

8 ай бұрын

It’s a band called Human Beat they released one record in like 2018. Similar vibe though.

@BridgerFlory

8 ай бұрын

@@JonathanCrain gotcha I’ll check em out

Way beyond too light of a punishment. U can't just ride people into a curb. Its beyond dangerous....! I can't imagine how a team with this kind of actions can keep sponsors.

@JonathanCrain

Ай бұрын

They kinda didn’t. They lost several between seasons.

Legion were such a positive force, now they're just lame bullies

Legion has done a lot of good for the sport, but man do they need to clean their act up when it comes to how they treat their fellow riders. Between this, some of the ridiculous things they've said about Jeff Linden, and a lot of the nonsense around Lion's Den including paying riders out.

Here's a thought: LEGION can organize a new form of racing a la demolition derbies, only for bicycles instead. Call it "Bike Bashing". Same course as a crit, riders wearing full face helmets and body armor of course. Winner is last rider still standing. Manufacturers would be on board, they could sell you yet another type of bicycle (the Basher) in addition to the road, MTB, gravel, cross, trainers, and e-bikes they already push.

@josboersema1352

9 ай бұрын

Genius! I see fat bikes on a mud and sand circuit, boots and ice hockey helmets, boxing gloves and there is someone sporting a mean grin, eager to do some Bike Bashing. It's JW.

I'm not excusing JW, but I race and this happens ALL the time! I honestly think his suspension should be a year, minimum; however, let's not pretend this doesn't happen in crit races. I find it funny when people who say they "race" make a statement like "I've never seen that happen!". Yeah, you've never been in a crit race then. I can't tell you how many times that has been done to me and I'm forced to have to brake or crash. Of course, it should never be like that; but it happens more than anyone in these comments care to admit. USAC needs to start handing these suspensions out to a lot more racers who also ride with this behavior!

@JonathanCrain

10 ай бұрын

I think we need to define “this” I’ll say, I see someone get taken to the curb all the time as a function of trying to make a pass on the fastest line and having the door closed on them. This is way beyond that though. Justin’s deviation takes them both several feet wide of the racing lines taken by every single other rider. The sole point of the deviation is to punish Gibbons. I think that’s what’s beyond the pale here. It’s hard to define intent and often times things are pretty murky, but this seems pretty egregious and clearly over the line of what’s normal racing… or what should be normal racing.

@thematrix813

10 ай бұрын

@@JonathanCrain I agree with that!

Loving the Dinosaur Jr T (although that album is probably older than you :D)

@JonathanCrain

8 ай бұрын

Born in 88! Well before Green Mind.

We all ride on the limit, but there is a limit of fairness and competitive sportsmanship that needs to be respected. Dirt riders don’t have place in a sport that an accident can end someone’s career or worst, their life.

It's too light of a suspension.

Geez. Justin should be banned. That was total BS riding him into the curb. Hold your line like they do in pro sprints.

@mindfreebodyfree5770

9 ай бұрын

Dude, in pro sprints it's even worse. Trying to cut lines is the standard. What are you saying? It's ride or die.

Justin has been bowsering people off the road for years. He did it to win his first national champs jersey…pretty messed up

@JonathanCrain

10 ай бұрын

Back when he was in the Assos skin suit and he hooked that guys bars?

The Raiders of bike racing. Maybe suspend the team and see if they get their sh!t together or just fade away. It would be a shame because there was a great opportunity to expand this sport in a positive way but they brought this on themselves and are blowing that chance.

As a second offence it's too light.

Crazy stuff... glad that USAC is doing something

Legions Malachi Crunch

In BMX it is called "punk move". Loved to see the SUSPENSION 'caise Williams should know better. Rashaan Bhatti would have wailed on the dude for that nonsense

hopefully specialized pulls the sponsorship

Justin, or crap riders like him, is the reason I’m no longer racing crits. As a former recon marine, I’d have a field day with (on) him if that ever happened again. Racing in Doral (Miami) I’d have won races but was literally ran into curbs and jersey grabbed in nearly 40 mph corners. F crit racing. Wanna be tough? Enlist in the Marine Corps. Wanna be a bike racer? Race bikes. This type of “tactic” has no place where sportsmanship rules.

@mindfreebodyfree5770

9 ай бұрын

Not everybody who wants some toughness and roughness in his life has to enlist in any army to embrace death. There are a lot tough sports out there. I don't agree that we have to send all those athletes to die at the front line because they love e.g. football. But I agree with you. Some kind of aggressive riding is debatable. Currently the rule book allows a lot. Maybe some riders need a better training in bike skills. Because cycling is not that popular in the US riders are usually badly trained and skilled in comparison. What you describe is the daily bread of a World Tour rider. That's why the UCI penalties or suspensions are relatively low unless you are able to prove that a rider was not just competitive but had the only goal to hurt his opponent. The intention is what counts. In this particular case with Justin I would bet that they didn't ruled it as an intention to hurt. His extreme competitiveness unintentionally escalated and lead to the crash. This explains the penalty. So I guess we should criticize the rule book. Maybe we should ask for a no-contact cycling league. Otherwise racing by the UCI standards will always include such scenes. Just take a look at what was happening at this Tour de France. It's a rough sport. Looks soft on the outside but once you enter the inside of the peloton or group sprint you experience the true face of road cycling. It's rough.

Legion muscles every other team. I am glad people is not backing down.

L39ion started out as disruptors to a stagnant industry and changed perceptions and introduced a new audience to an otherwise niche sport by all accounts they'd nailed it. While I think much of the hate is unfair in the past 12 maybe more months its become painfully common their entitlement tearing down what seemed to be at one point the golden boys of cycling as off the bike both on a social qnd marketing front they'd nailed it. But on it time and again they publicly destroyed competitors for simply challenging them to a win or at worst racing incidents. Yet it becomes more common their entitlement has become dangerous to others. I do still think L39ion as an entity can salvage the brand but over time its slowly began isolating fans and important groups wirh their attirude and behaviour and I for one think its a real shame as they had such an opportunity to blow up the cycling world and benefir massively from it

It takes on bad apple to spoil the whole team! Being a bully is never a good thing in cycling! I should be banned completely! There's no room in racing for that kind of riding at all!

good analysis here. I am a legion fan but this suspension is to light. This should never happen

Obvious question I haven’t seen asked yet: why does this happen in the American racing scene but not in Europe, or at least to the extent that it’s happening in America?

@JonathanCrain

10 ай бұрын

From what I hear, it does but there are less cameras. I’ve never raced in Europe though, and haven’t seen much racing from over there save for the world tour.

@mindfreebodyfree5770

9 ай бұрын

It does happen. Even more. What you call "overly aggressive riding" when demonizing Legion, is the standard there. World Tour riders are very skilled riders so not that many crashes, but still enough and terrible mass crashes and crashes in general happen. Don't you watch Tour De France? People even piss on other riders in the peloton. Sprinting is way more aggressive and competitive than in the US criterium scene.

@JonathanCrain

9 ай бұрын

Go watch my interview with Chloe Hosking. It's the most recent video on the channel. She's raced in the world tour, won sprints at the highest level, and then raced some American crits last year after her team B&B Hotels folded. I asked her this exact question, and she answers it pretty clearly.

An absolute bush move JW!

Legion 100% makes me not want to race a crit with them in it. Doing alot for the sport for sure 😂

@JonathanCrain

10 ай бұрын

I actually have raced a crit with them, and came out unscathed, but I also wasn’t trying to contest their sprint train…. I pulled myself about 30 minutes in because my contacts both froze and fell out of my eyes. So to be fair, I was done long before they lined it out.

All American teams go by the wayside, Legion will be just another history note.

I think this will only get worse as more money comes into the sport. It seems like these races are ran like amateur sporting events, where nothing is really on the line, but the guys are racing like their life depends on it. USAC has got to make sportsmanship and safety a bigger priority, it takes more than tough speeches. Monitor the race, pull offenders, and give them meaningful bans.

@JonathanCrain

10 ай бұрын

I think for a lot of these guys, particularly Justin and Thomas, there is a lot on the line. They’ve both basically put their entire lives into the sport. They’ve both built their own businesses and livelihood around their cycling achievements. Justin with Legion and Thomas with Automatic coaching. Even if each individual result isn’t a huge payday, crit racing is a cornerstone of their whole lives.

@gattmolson

10 ай бұрын

@@JonathanCrain I think that's the point I was trying but failed to make. These guys are racing for their lively hood, but were in a situation where we are relying on riders recording attacks in races, instead of officials monitoring the course. Like think if football had a section of the field that was hidden from the refs.

I bet he cries like a baby if someone does something like that to him. I guess we'll see is I'm right or not in the future. I'm guessing it's going to happen a lot

Kind of missed that big part of how Automatic races as dirty as Legion, they just at least say it out loud.

@JonathanCrain

9 ай бұрын

If youve got a video of that I’m happy to take a look, but I haven’t seen it. Dirty how?

@mindfreebodyfree5770

8 ай бұрын

@@JonathanCrain Thomas Gibbons crashed Danny Summerhill into the barriers in the final corner so that he was able to win the race. I'm not justifying Wiliams' dirty move here, but Gibbons became a victim of his own racing style. That's funny, and notable. GCN reported about it in an article when they reported about Wiliams suspension.

More classy behavior from “the most important bike racer in the world”

Legion has done this a lot...

Justin Williams races like a bully and thug. Thus he get called a thug. Has nothing to do with how much melanin one has. People would largely perceive JW as thug no matter what his ethnicity was but rather based upon how he has raced Dirty for decades and his brother promotes a culture of racing dirty with his KZread videos, likely now deleted to cover the bullying and unnecessary bumping race culture they created. One year racing ban minimum. Gibbons could have easily been killed when taken into the metal crowd control gates. Other riders have died or been permanently disfigured by said barriers. Lengthen the ban. Heck if Gibbons had died this could easily become a manslaughter case. Janky intimidation tactics and a decade plus of racing dirty. End that garbage.

@JonathanCrain

10 ай бұрын

I feel like you’re acknowledging that “thug” is a racially loaded term and then continuing to use it. I don’t think that’s actually better. I don’t think you can completely divorce race from any conversation about Legion, but with that in mind, you’ve got to be more thoughtful if you want to have a real discussion.

@geraldtone5914

10 ай бұрын

It certainly has something to do with how much melanin he has. He's been getting criticized for years way more harshly than anyone else I've seen. People tend to pretend that if the n word or any other racial slur isn't said outwardly that certain things aren't about race and that's false. This tactic of criticizing someone and then using mishaps or mistakes that they've made later on to justify that hate is something that is typically used against people of color by racists. Every time anything with Justin Williams or legion comes up, there's way more comments and feedback and any video or post about them on any platform. And there's a common theme of people having a desire to see them lose in some way. As of recently they've had the mishap where there was a bit of a scuffle and now this, but make no mistake that hatred and desire to see legion lose has been around well before any of these mishaps have come to light. This goes back to when Dorian Ryder made this disingenuous comment asking if the Williams Brothers were convicts. You can also see this recently at US. Crit Nationals where after Tyler Williams came in second place. There was literally more celebration of legion losing than there was of Luke winning. I could go on but I will leave it at this. There is a very clear undertone of racism to this hatred of legion. The things that they do are overblown is simply because the predominantly white male cycling community don't like them.

@robertandrews7415

10 ай бұрын

@@geraldtone5914 As a POC that theory does not hold up. As someone that has competed with them for decades and seen their brake checking in the final corner and intentionally riding competition into the barriers then glamorizing it on video your theories simply do not ring true.

@williambob111

10 ай бұрын

@@JonathanCrain Well, at least black folks can't accuse you of not virtue signaling your PC correctness and just how down with them you apparently are! lol I found it weird when you mentioned something about diversity and inclusion in the vid. You do know those are communist talking points/arguments/propaganda right? Hahaha you are a funny white guy!

@JonathanCrain

10 ай бұрын

@@robertandrews7415 this

If this was a UCI sanctioned race, Justin would have received at least half to a full season suspension. The ONLY reason the suspension is so short is b/c Legion (and to a degree the Willams brothers) has now become USAC’s cash cow. Every single race Legion lines up at rakes in money for USAC. At some point, spectators will get tired of seeing the roller derby style Crit (that is USAC’s de-facto Grand Tour). There appears to be zero sportsmanship at these races (which is a bad for the sport). If you are the best team, prove it on the road. If you are faster, show it by pulling away from the field. If Gibbons would have been severely injured as a result (or even paralyzed), I don’t think Justin could have continued a racing career with that dark of a cloud over his head (could have also faced criminal, or even civil charges at that). This is clearly an example of what NOT to do. Awesome breakdown of the events. Cheers!.

I understand that teams do not need to use violence or play who is the toughest in races to gain respect, this is what Legion has been doing for some races, both the women's and men's teams if you look at the women's team. Kendall behaves the same way, she thinks that no one can beat her and in some cases she throws the runners to the edge of the fences and now the case of the men's team with this new thing I understand that sports is something healthy, not a carnage, gaining respect in this way by putting the integrity of human beings is not doing clean sports,this need to stop.

Good call by the officials.

Used to be a big legion fand. No more. Classless. A bully. And pulls the race card whenever he can. Best thing that could happen is the rest of the legion riders leave the Williams behind and move on. Justin putting on more races? More opportunities for him to stiff the winners.

@mindfreebodyfree5770

8 ай бұрын

Please be kind and post a link to serious content that proves that he just (and as you said "whenever"=repeatedly) "pulls the race card". To my understanding the questionable term or phrase "to pull the race card" means that a person of a racially discriminated minority is using the term racism to gain advantage in an obviously non-racist context like "I have to pay rent and that's racist". This source must be an interview (quotation) or content published by Justin himself and not a random podcast by some random bloat. I'm very interested... I'm not following Legion that close. Maybe you are closer follower of Legion and the Wiliams brothers and their project so that you have facts that I don't have. I'm curious. I'm waiting. There are reports of black riders that say that they were explicitly refused to join a pro team because the sponsors are too afraid that people won't associate with their brand because they don't associate with black people. And that's indeed a sad thing, when performance doesn't mean anything when you have the wrong skin color. All he is saying, to my knowledge, is that he wants to motivate black kids to get into cycling and cycling as a sport so that cycling becomes more diverse. That's a very noble goal that definitely enriches the sport as many many strong athletes have a diverse background. He donates money to clubs and philanthropists to help buying free bikes for kids. If I remember correctly he only once reported in an interview (with Trainerroad?) that he was discriminated by the Team organization when he was professionally racing in a track team (or it was about his brother, not sure). However, this incident convinced him that he should build his own pro team. That's the story he is telling. But other than that he never dove too much into the racial discrimination topic. He just said he wants to motivate young kids to look into this sport. Why there are so few diverse people in this sport is left for debate. But that's not the business of his project - so far. I suggest you to read this brief "Our Legacy" statement. It's not about racism. It's about breaking and challenging some "outdated ideas": www.l39ionla.com/legacy I think your point of the common narrative, that blacks who dare to speak out about their negative experiences are usually make up stuff to "pull the race card", does not hold, in this case or in any other case. However, if you would race in the US you would be grateful for any new races or series or fresh race concepts to build up the sport. He is one of those guys that let actions speak. Whether you're a fan of Legion or not, they are doing great things that help the sport to gain recognition and relevance especially in the world of non-cyclists. Who doesn't dream of a world where the average Joe is happy to get home in time to watch the cycling championships? Legion is one relevant stone that paves the way. Their concept is officially in a beta state. So let's hope for the best to come out for us. Maybe one day you are able to make a comfortable living from crit racing. I'm not a "fan" in terms of being fanatic and I'm not into idolization in general. But he's doing great things for our sport.

Meanwhile, to date, the lifetime grand prix is flourishing. I wonder why?

@JonathanCrain

9 ай бұрын

Is it though? I think it's a bubble like 90's XC MTB. It's exciting and new right now, but it's not watchable. I think the shine is starting to come off gravel as a pro level sport, although amateur participation numbers will probably remain strong for several more years. I don't know anyone who's really following the LTGP series on the pro side closely though.

yea... that was a BS move in the turn. in 30 years of racing never saw that once.

Roid rage always manifests itself eventually. This is why i cycle alone. too many druggies in lycra.

no, Legion 100% deserves the hate - it’s hypocriticalAF to keep him on this team, or any team regardless of what’s been done in the past. His actions are a cancer to our sport.

@JonathanCrain

10 ай бұрын

Legion deserves ALL the hate they get? Like, even the blatant racism? There’s some stuff that’s beyond the pale even if you don’t like the team

@mindfreebodyfree5770

9 ай бұрын

I think nobody deserves any hate in the first place. Hate is not a healthy emotion. To agitate or spread hate is a dangerous threat to any kind society. Hate is not the problem of the target, it's a problem of the source. If you "hate" you have a serious problem. That's why hate doesn't hurt the target but the person who feels and spreads it. It will make you psychologically sick. It's a self-destructive emotion. It's infectious like any other emotion too. A person usually drags other people down with his hatred, this happens as easy as a person's laughter makes other people laugh or smile too. You can literally see how people's emotions turn from happy to stressed when they get in contact with a hateful person, whether they are the target of the hate or just the observer. You really should have that checked out. Hate is not normal.

If a rider has a history of dangerous riding, which it sounds like, Justin has, the consequence should be far more significant. In this case I don’t believe a lifetime ban is appropriate. However, a 6 months to a year suspension, is more along the lines of an appropriate suspension. Two months and a few hundred bucks, is nothing. I’m a retired pro crit racer, who was coached by Mark “Meathead” Whitehead. One of the best crit racers to ever race. He had a very hot temper, hence his nickname, and when he got pissed he would tell me to ride the rider or riders, who were riding dirty, into the curb. I never once did it, because I have a moral compass. In no way was I ever going to hurt someone, because they’re riding dirty. I wouldn’t stoop to their level. Crit racing is super dangerous and I had a friend that was killed in a race. Not only is Justin, putting someone else in harms way, charges can be brought against him if he causes severe injury or death. The strongest and smartest rider on the day deserves the win, not the dirtiest. Sanctions need to be a lot more consequential!!!