The trouble is if they are half wrong then why are they considers scripture . You can’t say they are inspired text and translated text at the same time . The tile page says they are translated and JS has journal entries stating he was working on the translation . These text forms the bases for what is done in the temple . This is what unravelled my testimony

@brettmajeske3525

3 жыл бұрын

Well, it depends on what one means by "translate". The LDS claim has always been the translation was by the Gift and Poser of God, so what matters is the text of the Book of Abraham.

@davidtamus

Ай бұрын

"Half wrong, or the half hasn't been scientifically proven yet. Quite different, isn't it?" haha

@davidtamus

Ай бұрын

The same applies to when Jesus walked on earth. Half of His actions and teachings proved He was from Heaven. Yet, the other half of His actions and teachings contradicted the understanding of the Jews' holy scriptures. Could this be the reason why many Jews rejected Jesus, and some even persecuted Him?

Why don't they just invite a non-mormon Egyptologist to the show, and clear things up once and for all.

@richardholmes7199

3 жыл бұрын

You know damned good and well the Egyptologists were debunked.

@Ether-pb5gb

2 жыл бұрын

why don't we invite all of the scientists who advocated for a daily dose of Aspirin to fight off heart attacks?

@paulgregersen3570

Жыл бұрын

Egyptologists are the problem. They should never have been involved with the book of Abraham. They've been trying to find things that have nothing to do with what Smith translated. To prove Smith did this 100 percent right click KZread video titled these letters exactly "BOA ep 16 " I guarantee you that this is true.

What’s your point . He got a few correct . But that doesn’t explain the entire text

@paulgregersen3570

Жыл бұрын

You are the victim of an anti Mormon shell game. Joseph got them all correct and I can prove it. Click KZread video titled "Book of Abraham part 15" click my name to get there.

@davidtamus

4 ай бұрын

If I were to perform a series of true miracles, even if some of these miracles are deemed explainable by today's world-class experts, it could suggest that all miracles are indeed miraculous. Perhaps the experts are mistaken or have not yet comprehended the full scope of these phenomena. Similarly, consider the scenario of solving math problems. If I confidently claim proficiency in mathematics and am given ten problems, with no possibility of guessing the correct answers, and a teacher-who has dedicated their life to studying these very problems-acknowledges that I have solved five correctly, it speaks volumes. The remaining five, which the teacher hesitates on, only reinforces the credibility of my mathematical prowess. In essence, the expert's uncertainty in those five problems further affirms my proficiency, as we are both engaged in the same field of study.

@demanitorres5925

3 ай бұрын

Dueteronmy tells us that if one prophecy is wrong he is a false prophet, God doesn't play and take things lightly

@gerardhearst8962

3 ай бұрын

@@davidtamusin the Old Testament god says anyone a profit gets wrong it means they are a false prophet

@davidtamus

2 ай бұрын

@@gerardhearst8962Would you mind to show me where the old testament says that "God says anyone a profit gets wrong it means they are a false prophet" or anything similar to that? Thx for your kind reply.

In 1879, the church made the following statement- "As with the Book of Mormon, so with the Book of Abraham, we feel fully assured, that every day as it passes, every new discovery that has a bearing on its statements, will increasingly vindicate its truthfulness and bear united testimony that Joseph Smith was indeed and of a truth a prophet, seer and revelator inspired by the the spirit of jehovah, the might god of Jacob".-Elder George Reynolds.

@blusheep2

Жыл бұрын

To bad the opposite has happened.

@protochris

Жыл бұрын

@@blusheep2 yeah, I'm sure the church would like a do over on that prophecy

I just want to say thanks to Saints Unscripted. Your channel is a very good resource for church investigators like myself. I've shown the Elders your channel and they were impressed, they thought it had a professional layout, with the thumbnails and the quality of the video. It's a good resource for church investigators because the topics you cover are the most common questions investigators have. Thanks again :)

@zachgarver7922

4 жыл бұрын

They may cover SOME of the common questions, within a mormon apologist framework. This is a thinly disguised mormon apologist website, be absolutely clear on this. By "elders" I presume you mean missionaries, or the adults teaching investigator classes. These are people who typically don't know a damn thing about any other religion on earth ( and please keep numbers in perspective, mormons, even by their own inflated numbers, represent considerably less than one percent of the world's religious faithful) but will tell you with a straight face their "testimony" they are the world's one and only one true church. Man, if these guys are all it takes to make you even consider this cult, you deserve everything that is coming.

@p3tr0114

4 жыл бұрын

@@zachgarver7922 The "Elders" I'm referring to are missionaries. Every religion claims to be the "one true church." If they didn't claim that, they would go to the church that did. Some LDS lie with their testimonies for complicated reasons. "Fake it till you make it" they say.

@zachgarver7922

4 жыл бұрын

@@p3tr0114 True, most (not all) claim the "one true church" mantra. Few, if any stake their entire existence on the claim as emphatically as mormons, and none, with the possible exception of Scientology, are as demonstrably and verifiably a lie as the mormon church.

@p3tr0114

4 жыл бұрын

@@zachgarver7922 I must admit that so far in my investigation of the church I haven't found much truth. A strange dream or two that's all so far.

@amiawalrus758

4 жыл бұрын

Zach Garver saying “mormonism isnt true because i dont like it” is a meaningless opinion. Say something specific or just stop wasting our time son.

If I got 1.5 Questions Right on a 30 Question Test. Can I still Pass if I tell My teacher I was inspired by God to get mostly wrong answers 🤣🤣🤣🤣

@gary_stavropoulos

Жыл бұрын

If it is a test on theology, if any answer you give can be twisted to be right then you “nailed it” and you pass.

That is SUCH a stretch. He didn't even get them "right" he just got them "sort of in a tiny way close enough". "mistakes, if that's what they are." YES. They are definitely mistakes. And anytime you guys are presented with something totally stupid and wrong coming from the early church, it's just "oh, well, prophets aren't ALWAYS right." I understand a prophet getting a word mixed up, but I'm supposed to believe that some guy that would get his hands on some papyri and completely make up some bullshit to sell himself as a "seer" is a prophet? I'm gonna go with no on that one.

@revertrevertz5438

3 жыл бұрын

I actually tried to guess as he was presenting the logographs. I also was close enough, even closer than Smith. Given the context it isn’t hard to get one or two things generally right. Mind you that he got the rest terribly wrong.

@richardholmes7199

3 жыл бұрын

Joseph Smith was right, the anti-Mormon pukes were wrong, proven stupid too. Proven stupid for assuming that Joseph Smith's translation/revelation of the Book of Abraham Egyptian sensen text papyri characters were supposed to concur with that of Egyptian mythology in order to be considered true.

@richardholmes7199

3 жыл бұрын

@XYU ''Um...no, unless YOU are an expert in Egyptian hieroglyph you seriously should sit this one out, or you'll just end up looking severely stupid.'' The translation/revelation of the Book of Abraham Egyptian sensen text papyri characters was never to be interpreted from an ''expert in Egyptian hieroglyph'' take on translation.

@richardholmes7199

3 жыл бұрын

@XYU You're looking at this the wrong way. You're supposed to compare the explanation to the Book of Abraham, not the characters.

@richardholmes7199

3 жыл бұрын

@XYU This has been covered since 2014, where you been?

I am extremely underwhelmed

With the interpretation, Joseph got 2 out of 40 right. Fabulous! Would I call someone a prophet for guess 2 out of 40 right? No!

@chaseallen7499

4 жыл бұрын

Would you call him a prophet if the text matched the scrolls? Like if we had all the scrolls and they matched the book of Abraham?

@chaseallen7499

4 жыл бұрын

@@davidjanbaz7728 If the interpretation was exactly the same then, Would you call him a prophet?

@chaseallen7499

4 жыл бұрын

XYU what I'm saying is Being able to translate something doesn't make someone a prophet. If everything matched it would just be he just translated it.

@chaseallen7499

4 жыл бұрын

XYU What I am saying is that the world would not see him as a prophet even if we had all the scrolls and they matched. Joseph Smith did more that just translate, he restored Christ's church on the earth and more.The role of a prophet is being God's spokesman. Not just a translator

@zachgarver7922

4 жыл бұрын

@@chaseallen7499 Do a little research. The facsimiles in the BofM are from the existing scrolls. The symbols in Smith's notes and the description of what he is translating is unmistakably from the existing texts.Why don't you Mormons get smart on what your church's latest position on the scrolls is. They have completely given up on defending the indefensible and calling it a translation, including having discarded the missing papyri position. The official church position is now that the papyri were a source of "inspiration," not translation, (which is completely contrary to Smith's own words) and of course the one fall back position your church is consistent with: just pray about it and the holy ghost will give you that all over warm fuzzy feeling and you will know it is all good.

If we agree to ignore the discrepancies between Joseph’s translation and the consensus of Egyptologists, and we focus only on the text itself, but in the end, the textual analysis gives even more reasons to be skeptical, is that the conclusion of the experiment?

@davidtamus

4 ай бұрын

Please tell me more "the textual analysis gives even more reasons to be skeptical", I would like to learn more.

@anthonyjames4478

4 күн бұрын

How would you propose to do this?

Those facsimiles did Joseph in. He should not have include them

@joewalker643

11 ай бұрын

he was probably betting on the fact that we would never be able to translate hieroglyphics. the news of the cracking of the rosetta stone obviously hadn't reached them yet.

@anthonyjames4478

4 күн бұрын

They do no such thing. Read the Book of Abraham a little more closely and you just might see why the facsimiles were included.

My favorite flub is when Joseph Smith said that Min, the fertility god, sitting with an erect phallus, is "God sitting upon his throne".

@richardholmes7199

2 жыл бұрын

It was originally God sitting upon his throne before the Egyptians replaced it with the fertility god min. This is proper interpretation.

@paulgregersen3570

Жыл бұрын

Richard is right. You need to read the text carefully where the book describes Egyptian gods as counterfeits of the true gospel. The anti Mormons play a dirty trick shell game to make a monkie out of you hoping you fall for their gas lighting.To see how you were tricked and continue to be fooled let us show you what they hid from you. Click KZread video titled "Book of Abraham part 15" click my name to get there.

@joewalker643

11 ай бұрын

@@richardholmes7199 ummmm, no. this hypocephalus dates from around 150 bc and there are much earlier and later examples of the exact same "prayer" (ive seen a few examples in the British Museum) so your argument would have to be that they changed it from Min to God for this one lone example and then back to Min. that makes no sense.

@inotterwords6115

6 ай бұрын

@@richardholmes7199 Why would "God Sitting Upon His Throne" be portrayed with an erect phallus?

Odd that you make such a lighthearted video (slap-stick cartoons intermixed between truly troubling discoveries about issues with the BoA). MANY members have left because of the challenges JS’s “interpretation” of the Book of Abraham have presented. Even the church now states that Joseph got it wrong in their own Gospel Topics essays. Here’s the roadmap…. Joseph Smith incorrectly interpreted these documents -> Joseph Smith is not a translator -> JS also translated the Book of Mormon -> the Book of Mormon is also false -> Joseph Smith is not a prophet…more likely a con man.

@davidtamus

4 ай бұрын

Distinguishing between facts and opinions is crucial for a clear understanding of any subject. Facts are truths that are known or proven, while opinions are views or judgments that may not necessarily be based on facts. As I delve into The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints's Gospel Topics essays, I recall the careful wording used when discussing discrepancies between scripture interpretations and modern-day understanding. It does not outright say Joseph Smith "got it wrong," but rather acknowledges differing interpretations. It is essential, therefore, not to misinterpret these discrepancies as outright errors. By recognizing the difference between a fact-based discrepancy and an opinion, I can approach these discussions with clarity and avoid misleading myself with assumptions. This nuanced approach allows for a deeper understanding of the complexities within religious texts and teachings.

2:28 "Once again, Joseph nails it." What about all the names he gets completely wrong? He's not like 50% a prophet right? Also why didn't he actually name the God? In the rest of the names, he says "The idolatrous god of [name]." He's naming the deities. He's not naming their best friend or something.

@nathanL22

3 жыл бұрын

It is so frustrating to argue with people who accept blatant lies man... I feel bad for deep-seeded conflicted LDS members

@stanleyhall8951

2 жыл бұрын

I don't know. would a prophet get everything right? Exactly right all the time?

@paulgregersen3570

Жыл бұрын

No, he nailed each and every one of them. You are the victim of an anti mormon shell game where they hide the ball from you. To see how they tricked you click KZread video titled "Book of Abraham part 15" click my name to get there.

@paulgregersen3570

Жыл бұрын

No Smith got nothing wrong in the book of Abraham.Let me show you in 3 minutes how you were tricked. Click KZread video titled exactly these numbers "BOA ep 16 " He got it 150 percent right.

@paulgregersen3570

Жыл бұрын

He especially got the deities right!

"Shockingly often"... How many instances did he get right? Were the papyri eritten by abraham himself like joseph said?

As there are lots of possibilities at this stage of our intellectual understanding we can't really say how Joseph came to give us the Book of Abraham. I tend to go with, like the Book of Mormon, it came by the gift and power of God and the proof of the pudding it in the eating also as with the Book of Mormon. It is to be spiritually understood by the gift and power of the Holy Ghost. There are some precious Gospel teachings in the Book, apart from being a good and interesting read and l have felt the presence of the Lord's Spirit there as l have read it. So l am quite satisfied it is God's work that we have the Book and Joseph is His prophet. Many thanks for your research and insights. Great program. God bless you in your work 🙏😊❤️

@SaintsUnscripted

Жыл бұрын

Thank you!

@blusheep2

Жыл бұрын

So no matter how many facts are against a thing, if you feel "the Lord's Spirit" in it, it must be true? Well, I didn't feel the Lord's Spirit in it. I felt the devil in it so I guess it was revealed by Satan. That logic works. Thanks for teaching us it.

@davidtamus

4 ай бұрын

@@blusheep2 Our feelings should ideally be grounded in logic, facts, or the information that prompts those emotions. When I say I feel the spirit, it's because I experience sensations of light, hope, love, joy, and peace-emotions that align with the spiritual beliefs I hold. Similarly, when I sense evil, it manifests as darkness, resentment, anger, sadness, hopelessness, and thoughts of revenge. These feelings are not arbitrary but are responses to the circumstances, stimuli, and beliefs that shape our perceptions of the world around us.

@blusheep2

4 ай бұрын

@@davidtamus I'm not put off by feelings. I'm put off by feelings that generated in spite of logic and facts. I would expect anyone that has a religious faith to believe their faith is real, in part, because it brings them hope, love, joy and peace. I think the issue is two fold. When one is asked to begin their belief with these feelings and told they will be the feelings of the Holy Spirit, then you are teaching someone to follow their desires and not the Holy Spirit. For instance, if you approach someone with your message and they break down and find themselves attracted to it, and then you tell them to read the BoM and trust the spirit to reveal its truth to you, then they will likely feel those feelings. The reason is that if they are brought to a place where they actually read the book to begin with then they are already likely decided. They want it to be true. The second thing is that you will be asking these people to do this, likely before they have any experience with hearing God's voice from their own. This is why are beliefs should be formed with all our tools. We can trust in God but we can also vet something's claims. God gave us minds to think. Its not a sin to do so. I didn't read the BoM because I thought there was a chance that it was true but I did give it a fair shake. I thought I owed that to the people who asked me to pray about it and read it. (I'm actually not done with it. I'm in the book of Ether chapter 5) It has not felt right to me at all. It has felt like a fraud from the beginning to the end. I don't mean to insult but this is my experience. The Book is extremely flat. It really offers little to the Bible and its predicatively repetitious without end. Other then the original story about the family leaving Jerusalem. Half of some books are just verses out of the Bible. It feels like it was written in haste. Every book is the same and other then in a few places the voices of each book sound the same. Nephites good. Lamenites bad. War. Nephites bad, Lamenties good. War. Lamenites bad, Nephites good, war. Over and over and over again. It thought it would change once Jesus showed up on the scene but its gone right back into that pattern. Anyways, its late and I'm just rambling. I don't reject Mormonism because of that evaluation. I reject Mormonism because it encourages the sin of Lucifer that got him removed from heaven. Good night.

“It doesn’t matter, it’s not significant as a doctrine” Another way of saying no matter the evidence against Mormonism, I’ll still believe it

@crisyorke1328

3 жыл бұрын

Precisely.

@richardholmes7199

3 жыл бұрын

The Egyptologists were debunked, proven dumb.

@jacobreeves3110

3 жыл бұрын

@@richardholmes7199 not true whatsoever. But go ahead and believe the lies because you know you want to.

@corneliusmakin-bird7540

Жыл бұрын

@@richardholmes7199 “Having faith is believing in something you just know ain't true.”- Mark Twain

@richardholmes5676

Жыл бұрын

​@@jacobreeves3110 Paul Gregersen debunked the arrogant Egyptologists by proper interpretation. Only Gregersen presents proper interpretation. Proper interpretation is that you're supposed to compare the facsimiles to the Book of Abraham, not the facsimiles to the explanation. You're supposed to compare the facsimiles ( counterfeit) to the Book of Abraham to show contrast between God and Satan. This proper interpretation is indeed that that which debunked the Egyptologists. As the Egyptologists assumption of comparing the characters to the explanation is the assumption debunking the Egyptologists. Paul Gregersen's pro-Book of Abraham videos seem to indicate, as I mentioned earlier, that you're supposed to compare the facsimiles to the Book of Abraham to show contrast between God and Satan.

I think it fits nicely into the reality of things. We will never get evidence for anything related to God that couldn’t be disputed to be wrong. In other words, we can’t have anything 100% solid that would prove God’s existence. It’s what I expect. If we had all the papyri today and egyptologists said “yup this Prophet of God seemed to have translated the entire thing correctly, in fact he reveals things that I didn’t even realize” it just wouldn’t make sense. That would be a direct correlation with scientific fact and the “gift and power of God” literally proving it. These two things can and have overlapped, but never in a ultimate overarching obvious way. How is that supposed to fit in our world of faith and belief? With the papyri mostly not matching what he said (from the papyri that we have) we have more of a privilege of deciding for ourselves. It leaves wiggle room to believe in faith rather basing it on some miracle. This is why the text itself is more important because that’s where one’s belief and faith should reside. And undergirding and overarching all of that is our faith and belief is not in some evidence, but in Jesus Christ who the text teaches us about. Which text came from a prophet of God.

I do not know how to read hieroglyphics and I came to the same conclusions that Joseph did, does that mean that I am also a prophet?

@joewalker643

11 ай бұрын

well according to this video, if you make 29 guesses and get 2 that are tangentially close to the truth then that makes you divinely inspired i guess! i loved the "...and other examples could be given" segue there.

@davidtamus

4 ай бұрын

Absolutely, in the year 1840, when resources like the internet or easily accessible libraries were nonexistent, the ability to perform accurate ancient translations would indeed be seen as a miraculous feat. If half of these translations were later confirmed by modern-day experts in ancient languages, it suggests an extraordinary gift or power. In our modern world, where information is readily available at our fingertips, proving oneself as a prophet would likely require a different approach. Inspiring others to embrace faith, hope, and love for all would be a powerful demonstration of prophetic influence. In a time when knowledge is abundant but genuine inspiration is rare, guiding others towards these uplifting virtues may well be the true mark of a modern-day prophet.

Also a crazy thing is that the 4 idolastrous gods he talks about are actual gods found among mesopotamian deities, and the odds that he would've guessed a random combination of syllables and still end up on four actual idolastrous gods are less than winning three consecutive times the lottery

What about the part in the bible that says if a prophet says something incorrect he would cease to be a prophet

@michiganabigail

4 жыл бұрын

That’s a good point. But even if you can determine that he was wrong here, you have to decide if you believe everything he said was wrong. Of course, the Spirit of God is necessary to decide what you believe, because nothing can be definitively proven one way or the other. In the grand scheme of things, though, I don’t think God cares too much about whether you believe Smith translated the facsimiles correctly or not. He seems to care much more about what kind of a person you are. Are you trying to be like Jesus? If you are, you’re on the right track!

@michiganabigail

4 жыл бұрын

david janbaz wait a minute. I’m sorry, how does D&C 114 prove anything about the prophethood of Joseph Smith?

@awfulwaffle1341

4 жыл бұрын

How do you know that Bible passage wasn’t wrong?

@michiganabigail

4 жыл бұрын

david janbaz you’re looking at revelation the wrong way. Section 114 actually further convinces me of the power of God to offer modern-day revelation. Actually, God never says Patten *would* go on a mission. God just says to settle his business as soon as he can. How generous. When I die, I’d like to know when, so I can settle my affairs. Also, you’re too focused on little errors in the delivery of the message. I imagine it was similar to translating one language to another language for your family. Quand j’écoute des mots en français et je les traduis pour ma famille, ce n’est pas parfait. Je pense que c’est comme ça.

@jaredite8388

4 жыл бұрын

@@davidjanbaz7728 he did not say david patten would go on a mission next spring, he told david patten to put his house in order so he would be prepared to go on his mission next spring. That was a standard mission call revelation. Heeding to this call, david patten put his house in order and got his debts out of the way. When he died, his family was not left with the burden of his debts. So the mission call was a blessing in the end for his family. And of course the lds doctrine is clear that men like patten are serving the lord in the hereafter preaching to the spirits in prison. Smith never prophesied that he would actually be serving with Brigham Young next spring. He only commanded him to be prepared to do so and have his house in order to be prepared for it. Makes more sense that God is not gonna let the man know that he will die soon.

One evidence that was significant to me is in fac. 1 with the lines at the bottom that Joseph Smith said were the "pillars of heaven." As a kid I wondered about this and thought the lines were just decorations. I later learned that, in fact, the ancient Egyptians believed pillars of heaven held the sky up which is actually an ocean. So Joseph's interpretation was spot on. How did Joseph know this at a time when practically nothing was known about ancient Egyptian beliefs. Did Joseph see these lines and make something up and just happen to be correct? What a huge coincidence. When put together with the literally thousands of other examples that Joseph got right about the ancient world that he could not have known, I have to conclude it wasn't coincidence. There's just too much evidence that Joseph had abilities that a purely naturalistic explanation can't account for.

@tylerahlstrom4553

4 жыл бұрын

You are correct. Job 26:11. Even if Joseph knew of this obscure phrase and decided to use it, I still don't see how he used it in the proper context of Egyptian belief. He nailed this one and got fig. 9-12 correct. Many of the names too that people assumed he made up, actually have ancient semitic origins.

@zachgarver7922

4 жыл бұрын

@@zacharyertengrass892 Agree, I love the BBC interview with Holland where he is pressed about the Book of Abraham. After squirming with visible discomfort, he makes some profound statement like " I know he translated something."

@brettmajeske3525

4 жыл бұрын

@@zacharyertengrass892 The LDS Church doesn't push any line of apologetics, independent members do.

@brettmajeske3525

4 жыл бұрын

@@zacharyertengrass892 I am not personally affiliated with Saints Unscripted, or Latter-Day Saint Q&A, or LDS Truth Claims, or Fair Mormon, or any apologist organization going back to FARMS. I don't know all their details. They are however separate from the hierarchy of the LDS church, which invites all to pray rather than encaging in strict apologetics. The closest the LDS Church comes is explanation of beliefs. Members, on their own time and effort, have had a long history of engaging in apologetic efforts. What becomes confusing is that many LDS apologists have a connection to BYU. That can create an impression of greater official sanction than exists. Hugh Nibley, one of the founders of FARMS, was a professor at BYU. I knew members back in the 80s and 90s who thought that meant all FARMS publications had the same sort of approval as a LDS Sunday School manual. FARMS was privately funded and independent of the LDS Church. You would need to ask Saints Unscripted how they got started. I think they are doing great work, but many of thier videos make it quite clear they are not speaking officially on behalf of the church, they are just trying to help inform others of our beliefs. More power to them I say.

@brettmajeske3525

4 жыл бұрын

@@zacharyertengrass892 Do you have any evidence that they are all lying? If the LDS Church actually cared as much as you seem to think it does maybe I can get them to pay me. Like I said, I do not know details of what goes on behind the scenes at Saints Unscripted, as I am unaffiliated with them, but why would they lie about something so trivial? Why would Fair Mormon or LDS Truth Claims? Officially published academic studies from BYU are absolutely official, but have you ever met a college student? or a prof? I don't know of a single University that requires students to only work for the school itself. As long as they do not violate the honor code, BYU students can absolutely start up KZread channels. And every Professor I know( which honestly includes a sister, two in-laws, an uncle, and several cousins) supplements their income with either consultations, writing books, or both. They idea that members of their own free will chose to spend their own time and money to participate in LDS Apologetics really bothers you, doesn't it? Why is it so hard to acknowledge that some people actually believe and wish to honestly share those beliefs and invite others to benefit from what we feel has helped us? We can theoretically be wrong and still have good intentions. Why would the officialdom of the LDS Church even care about a site like Saints Unscripted (no insult intended), which is a rather small fish all things considered? The LDS Church could certainly fund something like this, but why should it? And if they did why lie about? Frankly the criticism just isn't that important.

Joseph Smith was a student of Kemet. Mormons today are deep into Kemet and they don't even know it. Joseph Smith was trying to restore many elements of religion as it was in ancient Egypt. All of this is under the facade of Christianity. Mormonism does not come from the Book of Mormon. It comes from the Book of Abraham. Joseph probably already had the Book of Abraham in English so when he saw the papyri, he honestly thought they could be a match. He made the facsimiles fit the text he already had. He thought it could be Abraham on the lion bed being sacrificed. He thought it could be Abraham teaching in Pharaohs court etc. We now know the papyri are from 2000 years after Abraham and have nothing to do with Abraham whatsoever.

@redfightblue

3 жыл бұрын

@@davidjanbaz7728 Whoa, brand new stuff. Cool, I'll check it out.

@zachgarver7922

3 жыл бұрын

Other way around, Abraham was 1300 to 1700 years before the Papyri.

@richardholmes7199

3 жыл бұрын

Joseph Smith got nothing wrong.

@richardholmes7199

3 жыл бұрын

''We now know the papyri are from 2000 years after Abraham and have nothing to do with Abraham whatsoever.'' It's a copy of a copy and so on. It doesn't matter if it's a copy or the original. It's still the original.

@redfightblue

3 жыл бұрын

@@richardholmes7199 You are lost. There's nothing to talk about if you think Joseph Smith got nothing wrong. He got everything wrong.

Your ending statement is perfect as the church REALLY should remove the facsimiles altogether from our scriptures as they are pretty meaningless to the plan of salvation and Christ's gospel. Joseph Smith and his close associates testified that Joseph translated the Book of Abraham from the long roll (13') of papyri, which is long gone and he mostly guessed on the facsimiles. We should keep the Book of Abraham and get rid of the facsimiles.

I think we are missing the point: he was claiming to be divinely inspired and he got stuff blatantly wrong. Sure, a prophet can have an errant OPINION, but when they say it’s from God, if it’s wrong it should speak volumes.

@arm30three

4 жыл бұрын

Amen!

@amiawalrus758

4 жыл бұрын

Josh, mormons just dont share your opinion on prophet infallibility. While we respect your worldview, it is meaningless to lds people

@timeburner2175

4 жыл бұрын

Book of Abraham is canonizes into standard works. And apologist say may be personal opinion is mixed in there? What happens to scriptures contains truth only?

@JA-nl9el

4 жыл бұрын

@@amiawalrus758 I'm curious, how far in your worldview can a prophet be wrong? Is there ever a time where a prophet could be so wrong that he is then a false prophet?

@richardholmes7199

3 жыл бұрын

Joseph Smith got nothing wrong. Only the liars say he did.

I don't feel like any of those examples show that Joseph would nail anything

@miklamx

Жыл бұрын

As if you even knew what they looked like.

If Joseph was wrong about the facsimiles, how do you know he wasn't wrong about doctrinally important things?

@richardholmes7199

2 жыл бұрын

Joseph Smith was never wrong about the facsimiles, the facsimiles were just merely added to the commencement of the text in order to explain the text, Abraham 1:14 states this. You're all wrong, Joseph Smith was right. As this translation/revelation was never intended to concur with the translation from that of an arrogant Egyptologist.

@cultfiction3865

2 жыл бұрын

@@richardholmes7199 The things Smith did get right I also guessed right. So no way would it need any special revelation to figure those things out and the idea that there weren’t books available about Egypt when Jospeh was alive simply isn’t true. The evidence stacks up against Joseph on almost every count unfortunately for him and more so for Mormons

@richardholmes7199

2 жыл бұрын

@@cultfiction3865 Did I ask for your nuisance comment?

@cultfiction3865

2 жыл бұрын

@@richardholmes7199 Well I don’t make a practice of milling everything That say and do to please others. If I have an opinion to give I give it. There a scripture at Deuteronomy 18 :21 that says “If you say in your heart, ‘How shall we know the word which the Lord has not spoken?’- 22when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the thing does not happen or come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him” Now Joseph claimed to be Gods prophet yet we have proof of him claiming an Egyptian papyri now known to be the ancient book of breathings to be about Abraham. Yet skilled Egyptologists have debunked that claim and said that it has nothing to do with Abraham at all. Its a funerary text. How this discovery wasn’t Game over for the LDS church I’ll never know. Never was there such a dead ringer for a false prophet based on the evidence against him

@richardholmes7199

2 жыл бұрын

@@cultfiction3865 The funerary text, that that which you all say Joseph Smith mistranslated, was never mistranslated. As it was never translated to begin with. The funerary text was merely added to the commencement of the text in order to explain the text. Abraham 1:14 clarifies this.

One strong evidence we have against the "wrong scroll" theory is that we have the "Grammar and Alphabet of the Egyptian Language", made by Joseph Smith and his scribes. It clearly shows them matching the very same characters that we see on the extant fragments to the text of The Book of Abraham. Combine that with the facsimiles that (according to Joseph Smith) directly reference Abraham, and it seems by far most likely that we have the scrolls Joseph Smith was translating from (and that his translation had nothing to do with what the characters actually say).

Getting in the ball park on two is far from nailing anything. That's really a disingenuous statement.

But... a broken clock is still right twice a day... If he was a prophet, then why does all the stuff he got wrong super important, and the stuff he got right was so irrelevant?

@davidtamus

4 ай бұрын

The saying "a broken clock is still right twice a day" hinges on the initial assumption that the clock was functional and accurate before it became broken, now only displaying the correct time twice daily due to its malfunction. Similarly, consider an ancient clock studied by experts over time. Two hundred years ago, an expert wrote extensively about this clock, with some of their observations aligning with modern expert consensus, while others do not. This raises the question: could the expert from two centuries ago have been entirely correct, with our current understanding merely catching up? It prompts us to consider the possibility that what is perceived as incorrect or inconsistent now might, in the future, be recognized as ahead of its time or misunderstood by contemporary experts. The analogy highlights the evolving nature of knowledge and the potential for past insights to be validated or reappraised over time.

It is kind of a smoking gun though - if the God audibly telling him he conveniently gets to marry all the women didn’t already scare you off. I could probably get 2 out of 40 right without the pictures 🤣

I love these

I like theory three. Come listen to our prophets. They're generally correct, sometimes and they will reveal hidden truths (maybe).

@redfightblue

4 жыл бұрын

They're wrong all the time. They were wrong about blacks and the priesthood. Wrong about Adam-god doctrine. Wrong about polygamy. Wrong about blood atonement. Wrong about not baptizing children of same-sex couples. Wrong about penalties in the endowment. Wrong about removing garments for washing and anointing. Wrong about the 5 points of fellowship. Wrong about not sealing interracial families. In fact, when I look at the evidence, it seems like they just wait for social change to occur then slowly adjust to keep up. Like a bunch of old men who have a lot of experience, a lot of influence, but zero divine intervention.

@personofinterest8731

3 жыл бұрын

Sadly, we have all been lied to by the GA's. I have been heartbroken, then mad, and now just relieved to be free. Thank you for this video.

@stanleyhall8951

2 жыл бұрын

You sound like an ex.

I always find it so funny when people use the portrait of Hyrum Smith as a depiction of his scrawnier brother Joseph.

Okay. I love the discussion. But I think you have a double standard. When Joseph gets something wrong, you fall back on: "It's not doctrinally important. I don't care." But when he gets something right, you trumpet it. If you're content using the "it doesn't matter to my salvation" logic-- then why even make this video in the first place? The church makes real claims about reality. "Christ will come again. The Book of Mormon is an ancient record. God and heaven do exist. If I wear these clothes I'll be with my family forever. Etc." These are actual physical claims. My handsome friend, you cannot use the "this is just spiritual" when you feel like it-- because this isn't. These are real claims about reality. And guess what, we have a magic way of investigating and predicting the future of things based in reality. It's called science. Scientists are prophets. They make a theory with math, and predict gravitational lensing- and boom. There it is on eclipse day. But you know what they do when they're wrong (in general, friend)? Haha. Admit they're wrong. Change their minds. Grow.

@bobbq8380

2 жыл бұрын

Scientists are very smart but they are far from prophets. Back then the so called smartest of the day, like apparently the catholic church, were actually wrong with certain things they "knew" were correct. On the other hand there's people who were condemned that were actually right about certain cosmology or astronomy. There was even racist scientists that could "prove" or went on and on about so called biological inferiority of non white people. However, nowadays scientists know that skin pigment is nothing when they've found out every human being is biologically very much the same. White people can very much have kids with other non white, ethnic groups. Their mixed offspring tend to have stronger immunity to illness. Non whites are also able to receive blood just the same from non white folks. Anyways, I appreciate the smarts of people religious or not. Neither side is perfect and can very normally be wrong about certain things.

@bobbilderson8556

2 жыл бұрын

@@bobbq8380 That's true. But when you look at the track record of prophets vs scientists, I think the scientists outshine the prophets. I know that prophets are concerned with moral stuff, but even analytical philosophers like Jeremy Bentham came up with women's/animal rights and anti-racism well before anyone else. It seems like the Church is good for community, but when it comes to moral things and predicting the future-- they're definitely behind the curve.

@tylerprice4415

2 жыл бұрын

science seeks to explain a totally different category of information compared to religion. Science explains the how to everything, and religion explains the why. You cannot compare the two in any way.

@bobbilderson8556

2 жыл бұрын

@@tylerprice4415 Thanks for your comment, Tyler. I agree with you that the scientific domain and the moral domain are different. You can't do science to figure out what you should do with your life. Some scientists that think that, we will both agree, are confused about the limits of science. However, religions that have a metaphysic attached to them (like the LDS faith) are able to be disproven (or at least proved inconsistent) with science. For Example: The LDS faith claims that God really does exist- that Christ will return to the to earth in Missouri- that Joseph Smith translated Egyptian records- that the earth is 6,000 years old- etc. These are claims that are about the natural world. Science can disprove claims about the natural world. I don't think science has disproved either of the first two claims- but in-principle it could. So Tyler, I agree with you that science and the moral components of religion are different categories with different methods-- but when a religion (like the LDS faith) makes fact-based empirical claims (claims about the actual or possible state of the world) those claims are in the scientific domain.

@paulgregersen3570

Жыл бұрын

No Joseph Smith got the entire translation a hundred percent right. You are the victim of an anti Mormon shell game where they hide the ball from you. Let me show you exactly how you were tricked by Vogel and Ritner and others. Click KZread video titled "Book of Abraham part 15" Click my name Paul Gregersen to get there.

I’m the Christian Scriptures (the OT and NT) if a Prophet got something wrong they were stoned because they were a false prophet.

"Why would got allow joseph to get some of these wrong?" Because the God that led people into the desert for 40 years, had a donkey talk, and STOPPED THE SUN IN THE SKY... wasn't talking to him.

You do such a GREAT job with these David, thanks!

@Bazcole93

3 жыл бұрын

No he didn’t

@paulgregersen3570

Жыл бұрын

David missed a key challenge Joseph Smith gave us in facsimile 2 . He challenged the entire world to find this number code 9-11. I discovered what Joseph was talking about. Facsimile 2 was about the God of creation starting with Adam. See facsimile 911 explanation. Those numbers 911 match the tree of life in all three standard works. The Bible, the book of Mormon, and the book of Abraham. Following Joseph Smith's 911 code it then contrasts it's opposite with Babylon's immitation of the tree of life. Daniel 4 verses 9-11. From their Joseph Smith's code explodes into an amazingly accurate unveiling of the flying eagles thrust into the world trade center on 911. Then to the great slaughter of many people. Then to the rebuilding of Babylon in Iraq in our day and Bush invading Iraq. Yes, Bush right on the Bible also. Then the hijacking of 4 planes. You are in for the shock of your life. It' has all been sitting in the Bible, and nobody saw it. So far nobody can dispute it nor explain why it exists in the Bible. I promise you it's far more than I just told you and it's even clearer when you see it. Click KZread video titled (Joseph Smith reveals code predicting 911) write it in on KZread. If needed click my name Paul Gregersen to get there.

University of Chicago Egyptologist Dr. Robert Ritner does a detailed video on this as of yesterday on KZread. Is it possible to respond to him? Blessings and peace

@zachgarver7922

3 жыл бұрын

Yes, great John Dehlin interview, and the interview itself, not just the date it was posted, is within the last week. Ritner is the foremost Egyptology expert in the US and has examined the Book of Abraham. He also responds to the faux Egyptology of Muhelstein and Gee, the latter being a former student of his. Highly recommended.

@brettmajeske3525

3 жыл бұрын

@@zachgarver7922 Except he never actually addresses the specific claims of Muhelstein and Gee. He claims, without presenting any evidence, that JS was using the text of the Book of Breathings as the source for the BoM. Multiple times he states that he is speaking outside his are of expertise, and even more times he keeps repeating, something simular to "That is not how an Egyptian would have understood it.", when the question is what would a Hebrew writing in Egyptian understand it. He was dismissive of eyewitness accounts of JS translating and ignored the bill of sale showing that four mummies and two rolls of papyri were sold to Chicago. Many times he "doubted" official history concerning the papyri without offering a verbal examination of the documented evidence. The actual history section was fascinating. But not really any different than what LDS Egyptologists have said. He sounds like a learned and honest man, and I wish the best in his search for a kidney, but after watch the 3+ hour video I didn't hear anything new. Most of what he stated was stuff we discussed in Institute of Religion classes back in the 80's.

@richardholmes7199

3 жыл бұрын

Joseph Smith was right, the unintelligent anti-Mormons (never Catholic) and the egyptologists assumed he did because he didn't translate the Book of Abraham Egyptian sensen text papyri characters to what the egyptologists say they meant. The assumption Joseph Smith was supposed to translate the characters to what the egyptologists say they meant proves stupidity because it would have to mean Mormon scripture is supposed to concur with that of egyptian mythology in order to be considered true.

@brettmajeske3525

3 жыл бұрын

​@@richardholmes7199 You might want to rewrite that run on sentence as it it difficult to parse.

@richardholmes7199

3 жыл бұрын

@@brettmajeske3525 Yes I suppose unless you follow this translation/revelation closely will it be easy to follow. The anti-Mormons and the egyptologists have been claiming Joseph Smith mistranslated the Book of Abraham characters because he didn't translate them to what the egyptologists say they meant. However Joseph Smith was never supposed to translate the characters to what the egyptologists say they meant. The assumption that he was is what debunked the egyptologists.

Seriously ... " He nailed 2 out of 40" I would hardly use the term "nailed " Earth in its 4 quarters is hardly the 4 sons of Horus ... The idolatrous god of Pharaoh is hardly The crocodile deity Sobek ... getting 2 nearly right, but not really, is hardly "Nailing them " Jeez more mental gymnastics again ... and what about getting the Kinderhook plates wrong and what about getting a whole bunch of prophesies wrong ... so at the end of the day even though he gets so much wrong you still believe in him because you want to ... nothing based in facts just touchy feely feelings ... well here's an interesting fact for you ... thousands were baptised because of the touchy feely feelings of the faith promoting stories of Paul H Dunn ... which all turned out to be lies.

@SaintsUnscripted

8 ай бұрын

Have you checked out our episode regarding the Kinderhook Plates (Faith and Beliefs, Episode 37)? If not, I think you might find it helpful.

@keithmills4748

8 ай бұрын

@@SaintsUnscripted your own church historical records stated “I have translated a portion of them, and find they contain the history of the person with whom they were found. He was a descendant of Ham, through the loins of Pharaoh, king of Egypt ... so your argument is he didnt translate them or pursue translating them because he knew them to be false ... no by the very fact he said “I have translated a portion of them, and find they contain the history of the person with whom they were found. He was a descendant of Ham, through the loins of Pharaoh, king of Egypt ... he got it wrong ... along with the Book Of Abraham ... along with his prophecies ... look back at my previous comments ... you have absolutely no factual evidence for any of it ... just your touchy feely Disney feelings ... which by the way Hindus feel about their faith Muslims feel about their faith Buhddists feel about their faith ... and did you miss the bit I said about Paul H Dunn and touchy feely feelings ... all false and lies

It's evident that in today's world, there's a proliferation of false prophets, some even daring to claim the mantle of Christ Himself. It's a lamentable reality. Amidst these falsehoods, how do we discern the genuine prophets? It's a question that leads us to introspection and study, yet even in the scriptures, we find examples like Apostle Paul, who once vehemently opposed the faith he later championed. True prophets, historically, have often faced skepticism or rejection, such as Moses and even Christ. The rejection of Jesus by the Jews stemmed from a discordance between His actions and their understanding of scripture. Nevertheless, there's solace in Jesus' words: 'Draw close to me, and I will draw close to you,' and 'Seek and you will find, knock and the door will be opened unto you.' For me, prayer has been illuminating. Through it, the Holy Spirit has affirmed to me the prophetic calling of Joseph Smith, flawed though he was. He spoke on behalf of Christ on numerous occasions. Similarly, my conviction in Jesus as the Christ stems from a spiritual confirmation, as when Jesus commended Peter's confession: 'Flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but my Father who is in heaven.' Embracing the teachings of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints fills me with a sense of meekness, calmness, peace, hope, light, and love for all people. May you all also find serenity, enlightenment, charity, and hope in your spiritual journey on this earthly path.

In the dumb and dumber clip, Jim Carrey’s excitement that he got the “S” right in is the attitude that apologist have about all this. It’s kinda strange and concerning that all we pretend to believe required this attitude to hold on to it. Help me out if you think differently cause the dissonance is getting to me.

@richardholmes7199

3 жыл бұрын

The egyptologists were debunked in 2014.

@Sayheybrother8

3 жыл бұрын

Richard Holmes they were debunked? Interesting perspective and I’m very interested in seeing the evidence of this. It has definitely contributed to the shelf breaking for me. Now just to be clear, Joseph said multiple times he is translating the papyrus from Egyptian to English. Please let me know how the Egyptologist have mistranslated the papyrus and Joseph did as he told the saints and the world he was doing at the time.

@richardholmes7199

3 жыл бұрын

@@Sayheybrother8 Do you seriously believe the Book of Abraham was supposed to concur with that of Egyptian mythology in order to be considered the true translation?

@aspencrest

3 жыл бұрын

@@richardholmes7199 Richard you did not answer TeeEye's question.

@richardholmes7199

3 жыл бұрын

@@aspencrest My response to Tee Eye was self explanatory.

A treatise on this subject is waaaay to complex than it seems here because these are meant to be short but I will say this. The nuances in the facsimiles and in the book of Abraham are a lot more complex than this gives it justice. I truly believe that this book is true and would invite those who are interested in a factual and faithful perspective on the subject to look at John Gees works. He is an Egyptologist and believer as well.

@Chōrō13

4 жыл бұрын

I don’t think that it would be possible to remove bias from anything. The issue isn’t about bias or not, but in recognizing becuase it’s everywhere. So yeah of course he’s biased but anyone on either side would be in my opinion. That’s how the human mind works. That being said, he does share some of the mistakes that faithful members of the church have made in our over zeal to look for evidence. I have spent a good while studying all the evidence that we currently have and looking at then perspectives and I would argue that people both inside and outside the faith oversimplify this issue way too much.

@Chōrō13

4 жыл бұрын

david janbaz if you look at the translation for facsimile 2 the text portions are not translated, the only translated portions of the text for that facsimile are the iconographs. It is possible that the interpretations are given in a Semitic interpretation just like the testament of Abraham. Joseph never claimed to know Egyptian. He claimed to receive these things by revelation.

@zachgarver7922

4 жыл бұрын

Both Gee's and Muhlestein's defense of Smith's interpretation of the BofA have earned them considerable disrepute among Egyptologists. In fact you will find no academician not on BYU's payroll who will not dismiss the BofA for the fraud that it is.

@zachgarver7922

3 жыл бұрын

@@davidjanbaz7728 We are in violent agreement.

@Chōrō13

3 жыл бұрын

Just now seeing all these. D&C114 is outside the current question. I am not surprised that their defense of the book is causing them grief. Back in the 20th century just a belief in God was enough to cause a scientist to be looked down on. There are social pressures in scientific academia. If you go against the grain of the majority you will get bitten. Just look at the history of science in the US to see that. The both got their degrees from reputable schools so their not stupid and I highly doubt they would defend it if they didn’t believe in it. Last thought: I struggle to understand why you follow this channel if you hate the church so much???

More saints need to see this video, and know that these problems exist.

@Ether-pb5gb

2 жыл бұрын

Jesus died, and came back from the dead 3 days later. Probably every Saint on Earth knows that scientifically, this is not possible. But we believe still.

@quanofhxd763

9 ай бұрын

@@Ether-pb5gb Jesus was God in the flesh that came to set us free from the Old Law, how is that not possible?

Simple rule: you can get hundreds of things right, and you would prove something Get one thing wrong, and it’s over for you

The book of Abraham is canonized scripture so if he got something wrong while claiming to get it right then wouldn't that mean he's a false prophet?

@stanleyhall8951

2 жыл бұрын

i don't know. would a prophet get everything right? exactly right? apparently the only perfect person is Jesus.

@kolehollis5852

2 жыл бұрын

@@stanleyhall8951 it's just he said that it was written by Abraham's own hand which is clearly not correct

@beefmaster4

Жыл бұрын

@@kolehollis5852 its not so clear when you look into the explanations for it

@davidtamus

4 ай бұрын

The importance of building a faith foundation on Jesus Christ cannot be overstated. Scriptures and prophets consistently point us to Him as the cornerstone of our beliefs. If our faith is solely built on the church, the actions of prophets, or even the scriptures themselves, our foundation may not be as solid as we think. When storms of doubt or disillusionment arise-when scriptures may seem to show conflicting texts, when church leaders make mistakes, or when prophets fall short of expectations-it is our faith in Jesus Christ that anchors us. He remains constant and unchanging, the source of unwavering truth and the example of perfect love. By centering our faith on Him, we build a foundation that endures through any trial or challenge, providing the strength and stability needed to weather the storms of life.

Smith misrepresented every single hieroglyphic on the papyrus, which he identified. The rest he did not identify at all. He misidentified every named character, even inventing names that have no representation anywhere in ancient Egyptian literature. He also failed to translate even a single word of the Hieratic text on the original papyri. He did not even correctly identify WHAT the original document is. The irrefutable fact is, this is just another copy of the single most common ancient document in all of Egyptian antiquity: a portion of the Egyptian Book of the Dead. These are routinely found with Egyptian mummies dating to the Roman era (1st C. BC and into 1st. C. AD). So if this really was the "Book of Abraham", you will now have to explain WHY the Egyptians routinely buried their honored dead with copies of the "Book of Abraham" instead of the ritual documents required by their own religion. Furthermore, the BoA is loaded with both historical and linguistic anachronisms. For example, the text of the BoA refers to the "Chaldeans". But there were no Chaldeans nor was there a Chaldea until a thousand years after Abraham was long dead. There was no "Pharaoh" in Egypt during the time of Abraham. There were kings, and that is what the word "Pharaoh" basically means. But the word "Pharaoh" is derived from the Egyptian word for the palace of the king that was not built until after Abraham was dead. The word came to be used metonymically for the Egyptian king under the New Kingdom (starting in the 18th dynasty, 1539-1292 BCE), and by the 22nd dynasty (c. 945-c. 730 BC). Abraham died in about 1500 BC. Point by point: 1.) The Sons of Horus: The four directions are a universally known phenomenon. There is no culture on earth that does not or did not refer to them. They are simply a basic feature of the human perception of the world around them. Could Smith have simply applied what he knew to be a common inference which had been around for thousands of years? That would be no big surprise. Far from "getting it right", Smith completely misidentified these figures, even just inventing names for them and totally failing to recognize the true nature of these figures as canonic jars into which the entrails of the deceased person on the Lion Couch were placed during the ritual embalming clearly depicted on Smith's papyrus and in every other copy of the Egyptian Book of the Dead. 2.) Sobek. All of the Egyptian Gods were "associated" with Pharaoh, Sobek included. As usual, Smith did not "nail" anything. In fact, he failed to correctly identify and name this figure. If he was the prophet and this was the revelation he claimed it was, why could he not even name the figure correctly? 3.) The "everything is inspired" theory is bunk. We are not missing any pieces to any puzzle. In fact there is no puzzle except for Mormons. The Egyptological academy resolved these issues over 100 years ago and continues to confirm the clear historical and linguistic facts that totally and completely debunk and expose the BoA as a mere 19th century hoax. The idea that Smith represented how Jews would have interpreted the Egyptian Book of the Dead is absurd. There is no backing for this idea. This "theory" (which is really nothing but self-serving speculation) is not on any table outside the walls of the Mormon compound. 4.) The "50-50" so-called, "theory" is nothing but an excuse. The Word of God says that if a "prophet", presuming to speak for the Lord makes ANY mistake (let alone one as HUGE and egregious and obvious as the BoA), we are to ignore him (Deut 18). Later we are told that such a false prophet should be executed. If Smith could not discern his own supposed "academic interest" in the Sensen papyrus and a "revelation from the Spirit of God", then he has zero prophetic authority. Period. The fact that he failed to get literally ANYTHING in the BoA "translation" right cannot be hidden behind speculations on his own speculations pertaining to his own occasionally minor error. The fact that Smith wrote in a buffer about the errors being his in an obvious effort to preemptively protect himself from exposure, claiming that such errors were only his own, were about the only prescient thing he ever said. But if someone can accept that excuse, they will believe just about anything.

@paulgregersen3570

Жыл бұрын

You've been effectively deceived about Smith getting the book of Abraham wrong. You are going to be stunned when you see exactly how Smith got it a 100 percent right. I guarantee it! Click KZread video titled exactly these letters "BOA ep 16 " It was a slight of hand trick all along. It proves Smith was a prophet afterall.

@brianhorner8349

Жыл бұрын

@@paulgregersen3570 Really? Well, this should not require some kind of divine intervention. What we are talking about here is entirely mundane: the correct translation of something written in the Hieratic text of a 1st Century A.D. Egyptian document. So SHOW ME just ONE Egyptologist who has confirmed Smith's translation of that text. Show me where Smith correctly rendered the original Hieratic text into English and that the translation you choose has been confirmed by a qualified Egyptologist. For my part I will say that IF I am wrong, then so is every single Egyptologist over the last 100 years who HAS published on this matter, presenting their own translation of the texts on the original papyrus currently held by your organization and/or represented in the facsimile pages of every BoA ever printed. NOT ONE of them has confirmed Smith's supposedly miraculous translation of texts he could not even read. If I am so "deceived" then you should be able to SHOW that I am deceived by showing me a translation performed by an actual Egyptologist that confirms Joe Smith's rendering. If you cannot do that, it will remain obvious that it is YOU who is deceived.

@paulgregersen3570

Жыл бұрын

@@brianhorner8349 I guess you didn't watch my video. The answer to your question is articulated right there. Likewise, you never bothered to read " Abraham 3:14" God told Abraham to only teach the Egyptians about Abraham's family which is Israel. God commanded Abraham to use the stars of astronomy to teach only about Israel, not egypt. The book of Abraham is only about Israel not anything Egyptian to be worthily translated. Egyptologists study mythylogical gods which are no more real than buggs bunny cartoons. The book itself declared the Egyptian hieroglyphics are about Idalatry, in otherwords mythology. Egyptologists study myths and translate only myths Joseph Smith revealed Israel's God as the books subject, not Horus nor Osiris. Horus is a fake cartoon character that never existed. Egyptologists do not reveal the true biblical God, but prophets do. Robert Ritner is proved wrong by myself alone, right in my own video. He falsely claimed that Smith translated the four Gods of Horus all wrong. I proved him wrong easily. Yes, simply watch my video and explain to me why I'm wrong, and explain why Robert Ritner and all of the other Egyptologists are somehow right?. I challenge you to show me why. Click KZread video titled "BOA ep 16"

@paulgregersen3570

Жыл бұрын

@@brianhorner8349 See also why you are wrong about Smith misidentifying the 4 Gods.

@brianhorner8349

Жыл бұрын

@@paulgregersen3570 it’s YOUR job to SHOW me what you are telling me to see. Every single Egyptologist recognizes the Canopic Jars as the four sons of Horus. Smith missed this universally recognized historical fact and identified them with FALSE names, either taken from the Bible or names he simply invented. He was flat WRONG in each case. He similarly misnamed every single character depicted in the glyphs. And he did not correctly translate even one word of the Hieratic texts on the original document. Go ahead and try to show me he got any of these names or words right. You can’t even try.

Joseph Smith over reached with the whole facsimiles interpretations and it is worth point out that they did know about Egyptology in Joseph Smith's day in the 1830's. The English Romantic poet Percy Bysshe Shelley (1792-1822) started to write his most famous sonnet called "Ozymandias" in 1817 which is the greek name for pharaoh Ramesses II (r. 1279-1213 BC), derived from a part of his throne name, Usermaatre based upon the new information coming out of Egypt at the time. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozymandias

@paulgregersen3570

Жыл бұрын

You have been 100 percent misled about the translation being wrong in the book of Abraham. It's all a deceptive stunt. I will now prove Joseph Smith got it 100 percent right. Click a KZread video titled exactly these letters. 'BOA ep 16 " and in a few minutes you'll be angry to see how they tricked you.

@AnnaBellaChannel

Жыл бұрын

@@paulgregersen3570 I doubt it.

@paulgregersen3570

Жыл бұрын

@@AnnaBellaChannel I will publicly apologize to you if it's not so. Take 3 minutes and see how you were tricked. Click "BOA ep 16"

JS said it was the story of Abraham written by Abraham himself and it has been proven that it was written well after Abraham died and has nothing to do with Abraham.

“Joseph gets this one right” really man? The ones he got right were not hard to realize and he used other books to back up those claims. The facsimile with the black god, he said it represents a slave... This is serious work you can’t just brush it off by saying we all make mistakes. And really it doesn’t matter if he got the names right or wrong? Mmmhhh

@revertrevertz5438

3 жыл бұрын

When he’s right, he’s a prophet. When he is wrong, he’s just a man. 🤣 That goes beyond any rational thinking.

@richardholmes7199

3 жыл бұрын

Joseph Smith got nothing wrong. Only the unintelligent anti-Mormons and egyptologists assumed hid did because he didn't translate the characters to what the egyptologists say they meant.

@estebancarbajal6014

3 жыл бұрын

Richard Holmes hi, I am an active member that has done a lot of research. The church has conceded what scholars have been saying for over a century. Abraham appears no where in the hieroglyphics and facsimiles. Joseph said that he was indeed translating the writings of Abraham. We have the source text and can be verified that his translation is 99% incorrect.

@richardholmes7199

3 жыл бұрын

@@estebancarbajal6014 Might I suggest further research. As the correct interpretation of the Book of Abraham has been covered since 2014.

@richardholmes7199

3 жыл бұрын

@@estebancarbajal6014 Google ''Book of Abraham pt 1 (Why Egyptologists are wrong) youtube''.

So Catholics say the current Pope doesn't run the Catholic church...the Holy Spirit does. Same with the prophet Joseph Smith or Russell M. Nelson. You have a choice. Make the right choice. I choose Joseph Smith and the Holy Spirit.

@Wilvekio69

Жыл бұрын

You just said it… JS first in the list of a person to follow…. Call it semantics, but if JS is the first thing that comes to mind, you are being mislead.

Here’s the reality. Joseph Smith got his hands on some Egyptian scrolls. He claimed it was the book of Abraham and “translated” it. How can anyone question it at the time? They didn’t have modern technology to research it for themselves. Now that we actually know what the scrolls said, it’s obvious that Joseph Smith was wrong. It’s not some new book of Abraham. This is just another example of how wrong he was on many occasions. In fact, you would have to be a fool to call Joseph Smith a prophet. He got way too many things wrong. It really is that simple.

seriously ! someone claiming to be a prophet have to come up to the standards set out in Deuteronomy.

I like the videos.. They're very helpful on dismantling the LDS church... Sorry guys Joseph was indeed a false prophet

@Ether-pb5gb

2 жыл бұрын

Number 12:6

@SA_SwangnArk_KlumzyG

2 жыл бұрын

@@Ether-pb5gb Ezekiel 13:9

Faith and testimony within a religion are not centered on scientific proof, though they may begin with evidence. The essence lies in personal experience, particularly spiritual impressions. For me, maintaining faith involves establishing a foundation in Christ, which then led me to explore beyond mere words or seemingly unexplainable phenomena. Through prayer, I was encouraged to see the bigger picture, drawing lessons from the complexities of my family and personal life. Amidst life's messiness, I find clarity in knowing who I am, whom I love, and to what I am loyal. Ultimately, it is the sacred teachings and ongoing spiritual experiences that allow me to hold onto my faith.

@Flintlock1776

9 күн бұрын

Right. Spiritual experiences, feelings, and voices in your head trump actual facts and evidence. That's just the school of thought that gives us, "men can have babies."

@davidtamus

8 күн бұрын

​@@Flintlock1776 Thank you for your response, which reminds all of the dangers of using religion to fulfill personal, selfish desires. Personal feelings and schools of thought can become tools for justifying unrighteous behavior or for diminishing others' ability to think logically, independently, and decently. If a religion is wholesome, personal feelings and schools of thought should promote peace instead of violence, love instead of hate, and offer invitations with genuine love rather than compulsion. They should persuade with love unfeigned instead of hypocrisy and lies. In short, it is the spirit of Christ-embodied by love, peace, joy, long-suffering, gentleness, meekness, and goodness-that aligns with my personal feelings and thoughts, confirming to me that my faith is acknowledged by the mighty God, our dear kind Heavenly Father.

@davidtamus

8 күн бұрын

@@Flintlock1776 It's important to recognize the value of personal spiritual experiences and feelings in shaping one’s faith and understanding of religion. While empirical facts and evidence hold their place in our worldly understanding, the spiritual insights someone gains can be profoundly influential and deeply personal. True spirituality, rooted in qualities like love, patience, and humility, as I’ve described previously, should lead to peace and understanding rather than division. When these attributes guide one’s religious experience, they can foster an environment of acceptance and compassion, reflecting the core teachings of many faith traditions.

@Flintlock1776

8 күн бұрын

@@davidtamus Yours is an argument of utility, not truth.

@Flintlock1776

8 күн бұрын

@@davidtamus Lol. There is nothing even remotely wholesome about a religion that fleeces its members for 10 percent of their income and 100 percent of their critical thinking reserves, through techniques of emotional extortion and the completely absurd promise of becoming their own God someday..

Team Explanation #1 here. I’m curious if there is some apologetics article out there that lists all of the things that Joseph “nailed” in his interpretation. It would be interesting to compare it to the list of things that he got completely wrong. Interesting for me, anyway.

@redfightblue

4 жыл бұрын

He didn't "nail" anything. The 4 sons of Horus for example. Those are canopic jars used to store organs for the resurrection. Saying they represent the 4 corners of the Earth is like saying a car is a place to sit. It's technically true but totally misses the point.

@seans5289

4 жыл бұрын

redfightblue: The reason I’d like a side-by-side comparison, is because I would like to see if the lists of hits and misses are anywhere near equal in number, but also, it would be pretty informative to also see how “nailed” the hits are vs. how far off the misses are.

@mcable217

2 жыл бұрын

@@seans5289 As far as I know, these two "hits" are the only ones talked about in the facsimiles. He presented them though as if there's tons of hits and he's just going to go over two of them.

@seans5289

2 жыл бұрын

@@mcable217: My guess is that I could-without divine assistance-get two or three hits from guessing the meaning of an illustration, but I would also guess that I’d have some pretty egregious misses balancing the scales.

For the record, that a crocodile was a god of Pharaoh is also in Adam Clarke's Bible commentary, which we know Joseph Smith had and read. Also, modern Egyptologists to do not interpret Facsimile #1 as being a god of Pharaoh in this context. Also, the sons of Horus do not mean the four corners of the earth in this context. Also interesting that these same four sons of Horus were given a different interpretation in facsimile #1.

@bobbilderson8556

3 жыл бұрын

NICE! I should've looked before I wrote my other comment.

So, because smith hit the target one time, I supposed to believe he was a prophet?? Are you serious? Out of an important “holy inspired “ book “that supposed to have such an important message from smith’s god like polygamy, Emma smith had to let her husband married Virgen, the many polytheist gods , we will become one after dead, the council of gods to create earth , etc… he wasn’t actually right ?? Who spoke in that book? It wasn’t the God of the Bible for sure , because the God of the Bible ALWAYS GET IT RIGHT! Isaiah 46:9-11 King James Version 9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, 10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: 11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it. I suspect that someone else made it all up!!! But who could do such a horrible thing?? Who could make people to go to hell because he was twisting the Bible ? Who could careless for people’s souls? Wait, I think Joseph smith!! But wait, he got one right thing at least .. i don’t know if I should doubt still.. Please Mormons wake up! The anti- Christ is coming to stamp his people with the mark of the beast ! Joseph smith was just a good story teller!

I write in SPANISH....you write in ENGLISH... we use the same ALPHABET, so 3 thousand years from now, if archeologist found my written documents and yours, THEN WILL BE KIND OF CONFUSE. Different meanings for each word we wrote!!!.

@Flintlock1776

9 күн бұрын

Did you steal my bike?

The same applies to when Jesus walked on earth. Half of His actions and teachings proved He was from Heaven. Yet, the other half of His actions and teachings contradicted the understanding of the Jews' holy scriptures. Could this be the reason why many Jews rejected Jesus, and some even persecuted Him?

I think the opening statement in the book of Abraham makes the facsimiles very important. Its the message claimed to be sent by God for Joseph Smith to translate and thats what he claimed he did in the opening paragraph. If we found out that what the tablets moses brought down the mountain were in fact pagan funeral rights and not the 10 commandments, moses would be lying. Not just giving us his message from God, while holding irrelevant, off topic common writtings of man and showing them to people who couldn't read them, claiming them to be something they aren't. I really love the people of the LDS that I have met. But this along with the many, many contextual changes to the book of Mormon (current book vs printers copy in salt lake museum, please look for yourselves) I cannot believe this man was a prophet. But best of luck to all who do. God bless.

@richardholmes7199

3 жыл бұрын

The Egyptologists were debunked in 2014.

@Isacc..

8 ай бұрын

​​​@@richardholmes7199 no they werent, which indepent authortiy says this, il await your links to a proper independant authority. Plus mr smith wasnt even of pure ainchent jewish dna like he claimed to be ( claimed he was a full pure blooded decendant of jesus and the line of david)So stop telling lies everywere, if you want to belive in something thats up to you, but dont lead others up your colon so you can cover them in bs please.

“It’s not important if some is wrong” well it is as the facsimiles are made defence to in the text. And if they are wrong what else is made up . This is the issue you don’t touch on. You just excuse any issues you find. This is a big deal and it exposes Joesph smith

@richardholmes7199

3 жыл бұрын

The Egyptologists were debunked in 2014.

How do we know what the Egyptian hieroglyphics actually mean? The Rosetta Stone only goes so far...

(1:48) I would say the penguins of Madagascar.

Hardly seems inspired. Too much wriggle room seeing he was a "prophet....."

Smith getting a few things “right” seems more likely to be luck. Getting a few vague things right doesn’t out weigh getting most things wrong.

@dr33776

5 ай бұрын

It’s really amazing that most people in the comments can see through the BS. This channel usually has lots of members defending the church. The book of Abraham is indefensible and they know it. They won’t touch it with a ten foot pole.

WoW!

Yes

@revertrevertz5438

4 жыл бұрын

Easiest answer I’ve ever given 🤣

@revertrevertz5438

4 жыл бұрын

david janbaz seriously, even the Mormon guy in the video says he made them up, only got “two things right” which I also guessed from the context, and if you stretch the truth.

(Bible says, God comes by the truth of your heart is your crown)means/corona, we are the word of God and our actions are the signs of word, welcome to the corona/tion. Each sentence in the Bible is a sentence from order and each sentence is a year sentence as (1 in the beginning was the word) and (2 the word was with God) and (3 the word was God) (4 and the corona/crown has placed us as word six feet of firmament from each other.) Truth of word flows eternally forward as the distortion of truth is number, numb/cold power numb/ber. The multitudes are being taken back from death/darkness as legion is many took everything from all the word. The light in the darkness is this grain of earth within this universal body and it is protecting all of life as you have a Galactic cell out there and this Galactic cell we are in right now is the body of Christ, you live the body of Christ within Omega as you have all word/will of creation upon you within each cell is a throne for all word of creation, you have your will/word of creation upon equal me/a/sure, you are a universal body, when this is over you will be shown all your action and consequence upon your Galactic realm and when trust is earnt you will claim your universal body again within this multiverse. (universe/unity of verse/unity of word. I wrote a book it is all over the world and the more I try to announce it the more I am shut down. The book is, The last shall be the first and the first shall be the last by Joseph Darrell Walker. If you know the Bible then you will know everything. Voices in head are not mental, think positive and legion as he is many will leave. Genesis isn't walking us into the darkness he is walking us out of it so read 4,3,2,1, and it will make better sense.

Maybe...maybe or maybe....Prophets don't make mistakes, and even if they did, a mistake such as this is uprooting.

I understand that he got almost none of the facsimiles correct, and honestly what you and others call hits are a pretty liberal interpretation of what is a hit. However, he also got the GAEL (Grammar and alphabet of the Egyptian language) wrong which is what the book of Abraham IS based on. So he proved that he could not translate anything correctly. We are supposed to take it on faith that even with the proof that it is wrong to just believe anyway. That is NOT faith, that is convincing yourself to believe that we have to believe in spite of the proof that it is wrong. We have a lot of evidence showing that Joseph was not able to translate anything. If anyone else got this much wrong you would have to say that they did not have a God given ability to translate so why do we have a special pleading for Joseph. He was a con man in his youth. We have proof of that. He got a lot wrong with the teachings on polygamy. We have proof of that. He was willing to break the law whenever it suited him. We have proof of that. He was willing to lie to anyone to cover his tracks. We have proof of that. Why then are we so willing to just say that we should believe what he claims when there is so much proof that we really shouldn't and wouldn't if it was anyone else.

@dr33776

5 ай бұрын

Completely agree.

Yep! Not even close!

@narleymarley666

4 жыл бұрын

Even if it was close (it isn’t) only one mistake would prove it wasn’t translated correctly. All we really needed was one even tho we got SO many more.

Nice video, but too many cutsie cuts. One or two are okay, but it's distracting for those who take this topic seriously.

@bossendenwoodconvict

3 жыл бұрын

Well, oif they took it seriously it would lead them out of the church.

@johnroberts6695

3 жыл бұрын

@@bossendenwoodconvict Only it doesn't. As Hugh Nibley used to say, everyone wants to know how he did it, but no one wants to look at the text, judge its merits and compare it with the apocryphal Abrahamic writings discovered _after_ Smith's Book of Abraham. He also said (and I agree with him on this) that the ones with the most pronounced views against it are the people who know the least about it. This is especially true of people who drag out the 1906 and 1911 views of Egyptologists. There's an excellent lecture here on KZread by Daniel C. Peterson, and though he's not an Egyptologist, his points are taken from modern Egyptologists. Very few critics ever take the time to listen to it, though. Why don't you check it out? (It's at kzread.info/dash/bejne/p4Ci2auTp7nadtI.html and I highly recommend it.)

lol. He didn't get it right. Even the stuff you claim that he got it right applies so loosely you could make 10 other predictions that fit just as well. When you combine the fact that JS was claiming to be divinely inspired then there should be no question at all as to the legitimacy of it. JS's predictions are in error at more than the rate of chance, a far cry of what should be expected from the voice of god on earth. Unbelievable that you buy into this.

@germanslice

4 жыл бұрын

You can' escape the fact that Isaiah prophesied that a sealed book of scripture would come forth in the last days to open the people's eyes up to the truth of God. Joseph even saw the sickness that we have now on the planet today and the Lord revealed revelations to him about it way back in 1836 over 200 years ago. And said that the report thereof will vex many people, that this sickness that will cover the land will pass over by day and by night, so it will go throughout the world to bring to pass another prophecy which is found in Revelations Chapter 18 where the whole world grinds to a halt for an hour due to the global lockdown.. Meanwhile the Lord has said that the saints will stand in holy places and be not moved because of the lockdown. So prophecy is being fulfilled. How can Joseph Smith be a false prophet when he accurately told information over 200 years ago details of the conditions that would affect the world in the last days? How could he known over 200 years ago about the internet age when he translated the words 'and their iniquities shall be spoken about upon all the housetops?' in the Book of Mormon unless the Lord God had inspired him to write those words for our day, for the devil doesn't know the future, but God does so God revealed to Joseph that knowledge. We have internet now in just about every single housetop in the world of people practicing iniquity and talking about all the sinful practices of the world they do to each other on their cams. Fulfilling this prophecy of the global iniquity in the Book of Mormon of what conditions will be like in the last days among the wicked those who do not serve the Lord. Joseph was inspired by God, he was shown the future events. All the prophets of God are inspired. As for the Sealed book of Mormon, the first attempts of the sealed record's translation would fail. Isaiah saw the 1st failed attempt of the learned man of the world the egyptologist to try to translate some of the characters from the record. The Learned man Charles Anthon, the (egyptologist) would not take the book in to translate it because he didn't believe the book had been sent from heaven from God.. So the Book fell back into the hands of the unlearned man (Joseph Smith for translation because that professor had rejected the record).... So the Lord said the world will not have the record through the world's professors. So he took the gold plates back after it was translated and the record came through Joseph Smith under those humble circumstances that God had chosen, so the Lord had confounded all the wise of the world and brought about his word about by another way just as the prophet Isaiah said the Lord God would do exactly that for the Lord knew that the world would want the record only for personal gain and riches and honor. even Joseph was told not to have this motive in mind when obtaining the record when it was finally handed over to him. ......God gave Joseph the tools and the power to translate the record...... But Joseph didn't receive the record straight away after he was shown where the record was kept. He had to wait four years before he could obtain it because his heart wasn't right before the Lord, but when he had repented and his heart was right, the Lord then handed him the record.

@zachgarver7922

4 жыл бұрын

@@germanslice" and their iniquities shall be spoken about upon all the housetops."' Dude, if this is prophecy of the internet then you will make a prophecy out of Smith's farts. In fact, there has NEVER been any prophecy at any time, in any scripture, by any so called prophet, that was clear and concise and not some vague statement anyone could say( like for example mormons saying since 1830 that these are the latter days) and had a specific end date that has ever materialized. Incidentally you seem to be hung up on "over 200 years ago." Try a little arithmetic.

@cultfiction3865

4 жыл бұрын

Diggilicious. The strange thing is that I took a few moments to guess and got them Correct also. The first one I guessed 4 gods representing the 4 parts of the world and the second I guessed an Egyptian god although I didn’t guess it to be pharaohs personal god but was near enough. So lucky guesses aren’t as dramatic as some might imagine. Also I’m sceptical of the claim that back in Joseph’s time in the early 1800s reading material was not available on ancient Egypt. That seems hard to believe since books have always been around, and so have archaeologists and explorers. I see no evidence to suggest otherwise. On KZread I have seen videos showing ancient books from many centuries ago that speak about ancient civilisations and practices

@cultfiction3865

4 жыл бұрын

Diggilicious. The strange thing is that I guessed what those images meant and also guessed correctly. The first image I guessed were 4 Gods representing 4 levels of the world and the second part I was an Egyptian god although I didn’t have enough time in just 10 seconds to decide that it was pharaohs god. So guessing correctly isn’t such a dramatic feat. Besides the claim that no reading material existed back then about ancient Egypt seems unverified to me because I’ve seen KZread videos that show ancient books from far earlier than that about ancient civilisations and practices.

@richardholmes7199

3 жыл бұрын

Joseph Smith was right, the egyptologists and the anti-Mormons were wrong. The egyptologists and the anti-Mormons are wrong due to the assumption that Joseph Smith was supposed to translate the Book of Abraham Egyptian papyri characters to what the egyptologists say they meant. The assumption Joseph Smith was supposed to translate the characters to what the egyptologists say they meant proves stupidity. It proves stupidity because it would have to mean the Book of Abraham translation would have to concur with that of egyptian mythology in order to be considered a true translation.

I have to say he is wrong and wanted to show proof that no one could dispute. SO he wanted it to be true. I dont think God dictated the book of moses He had apygrpha from jews and other ancient documents. I am a LDS author. I pull from other sources. All authors do this then add their spin on things. Joseph was creative and a story teller. He probably wrote it then prayed over it and got a good feeling and called it revelation. Revelation doesn't have to be dictation from God.

@stanleyhall8951

2 жыл бұрын

I wonder why Joseph would pray about it then fabricate it?

Joseph Smith was right, the egyptologists are wrong. The egyptologists are wrong due to the assumption that Joseph Smith was supposed to translate the Book of Abraham Egyptian sensen text papyri characters to what the egyptologists say they meant.

This is a textbook case of confirmation bias. You are really trying hard to fit anything you can into what you already believe.

@Hamann9631

3 жыл бұрын

David Allen. This is a case of God has already told us. We are believing in God and seeing how the facts fit with what God has already told us.

Yeah but if you claim to be “the one true church” and the “restored gospel” you do not get a pass on mistakes and misinformation. God would not want such silly mistakes in his true church.

@richardholmes7199

3 жыл бұрын

Joseph Smith was right.

@robmullin1128

3 жыл бұрын

Richard Holmes Mohammad claimed he himself was right as well 😂

@Hamann9631

3 жыл бұрын

Rob Mullin. Are you ready to say that to God on judgement day? What do you expect out of God working with imperfect mortals?

@richardholmes7199

3 жыл бұрын

Google ''Book of Abraham pt 1 (Why Egyptologists are wrong) youtube''. A video DEBUNKING the EGYPTOLOGISTS by using proper interpretation, proper interpretation is that Joseph Smith translated in reverse back to a biblical text, the original.

@stanleyhall8951

2 жыл бұрын

How do you know no mistakes?

Modern egyptoligists, hey. Now there's a reputable bunch, basing there beliefs off of nothing but solid evidence

Joseph Smith the local weatherman of prophets. Joseph nails it lol

Dave, I'd like to continue watching your channel but I can't take the weird movie inserts. They are annoying and distracting. Please please please STOP.

@tpbarron

4 жыл бұрын

I like them. Lol! Don't stop!

@easthooligunz

4 жыл бұрын

I agree. It’s cringey

@taylor_su

4 жыл бұрын

Yeah David, geez, stop with all those weird and obnoxious movie inserts. *sweats nervously*

@larryhawkes1347

3 жыл бұрын

No, don't stop. Do it your way and how you believe it, this is basically the same thing as people telling you how and what religion you should believe. You have your free agency to produce these videos and messages, so continue to do so.

@richardholmes7199

3 жыл бұрын

Google ''Book of Abraham pt 1 (Why Egyptologists are wrong) youtube''.

🍿🍿 apologetic work arounds

Yes it was made up . All your arguments are singular and contradictory to the next argument. The church is morally broke . Just come out and admit it

@stanleyhall8951

2 жыл бұрын

I don't feel it. Morally broke.

Cool stuff, it was too real and scary when anyone look into more, still I believe in JS. Thanks for the awesome video.

@etcomehome39

3 жыл бұрын

JS is a religious genius with extraordinary imagination! He created something awesome. To the believers, his creation does wonder. To the doubters, his creation is just that.

Anyone with a 10th grade education knows that’s Osiris. He’s lucky it was easy to scam people in the 19th century.

For those who believe in the inspiration of the Bible If a man shows up an claims to be a prophet it is your moral and spiritual responsibility to measure that man claims in the light of old testament prophets e.g. Moses, Samuel, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Daniel, John etc If that person falls short enough of the time it means they are a false prophet and Joseph Smith seems to fall short everytime. Here are a few tests of a true prophet based on the Bible (which mormons are supposed to believe in) (1) Innerant and clear prophecy: You would never have to go to the lengths that you people have for JS to prove Moses was a prophet because his prophecies were always clear and easy to decipher there were never any need for speculations this applies to all other biblical prophets. The prophecies of biblical prophets all come true but JS has made some pretty controversial claims that didn't (2) Morally: God is holy and so therefore any messenger that God allows to speak for him on a regular basis must have a track record of holiness (this also applies to the biblical prophets) But considering the fact that most cultures and religions (abrahamic and pagan) have for most of history considered polygamy as immoral it puts JS claims in a bad place As if that isn't enough the Bible repeatedly insists that marriage is between one man and one woman for a lifetime and all the instances of biblical characters who had polygamous relationships (on account of the commission to bear many children) have examples of the disasters associated with it (Although to be fair since JS was about to spread a heretical teaching that Yahweh is a product of celestial sex between gods before him and to teach that a man will continue to have sex with his wives to populate other worlds in eternity it makes sense for him to preach and practice polygamy) (3) The principal message of a prophet is repentance and the instruction to turn back to the true living God from your sins. After millennia of prophets from Moses to Elijah who had their ministries confirmed with irrefutable miracles signs and wonders and man shows up claiming to be a prophet and claiming that all the prophets before him were wrong and cannot show ONE clearly undisputable miracle to confirm his prophetic ministry (the best cases are easily dismissible and subject to loopholes) Yet he claims to be sent by the true living God Give us a break Salvation is in Jesus Christ alone who is the son of God and through faith in his shed blood alone apart from our works and apart from our good deeds and sacraments. The Bible alone is the authority to all matters of faith and practice

@Ether-pb5gb

2 жыл бұрын

was David a true prophet?

Dude, you set a really low bar for "correct interpretation." The "cardinal directions" and "four quarters" does not mean the same thing. The term "Pharaoh" did not come into use until 500 years after Abraham. There is more, but in fact Smith got NOTHING right, but that's ok, with mormons, it's the message that counts, why sweat the little things like his lying about the translation.

@BrianMillsMFA

4 жыл бұрын

Also, Pharaoh is the Egyptian word for "king" and Joseph thought it was a name of the first king. Like as if the name of the first king of England was King.

@donaldjones9830

4 жыл бұрын

Nothing right? You have been deceived by Satan.

@zachgarver7922

4 жыл бұрын

@@donaldjones9830 Typical cultish mormon response. Anything or anyone critical of anything mormon, no matter how accurate or factually correct, is satan inspired. Your church is the most devil made me do it organization in existence.

@amiawalrus758

4 жыл бұрын

Zach Garver cardinal directions and four quarters are “not the same thing” ?? Haha it amazing me how far anti mormons go to believe their emotionally driven “conclusion.” You know deep down that he got that one right. Thats like saying “wElL 5.0 aNd 5.0001 aRe teChiCaLly nOt tHe saMe tHinG” lol!

@timeburner2175

4 жыл бұрын

Am I a Walrus you seems to be a throwaway account created by saints unscripted to defend their views. Am I right?

Yes! And that makes JS a liar unfortunately that disqualifies him as a messenger of God! God doesn’t get it part right in prophesy. It’s 💯- read the Old Testament - walks like a guck quacks like a duck is a duck . Prophets are inspired mouth piece of God - not good guessers

Joseph was a prophet

@lort1204

4 жыл бұрын

Proof it in the Bible! Take a Look at LK 16:16, Mt 27:51, read Hebrews ch 1, Dt 13 and 18...shoot read the New Testament! And Leviticus 8-9, exodus 29. He was a false prophet just like in Islam.

@joshuakruntorad5644

4 жыл бұрын

A false prophet, yes

"Attribute it to luck or coincidence." Ah yes. You're setting up a Joseph Smith basketball game, where you take down the opponent hoop. Sure, you'll give Joseph credit for getting something right (if you look at it the right way)--- but you don't also give him credit when he messes it up. Make a tally of all the things he gets wrong, and right. A second grader could probably do as good as Joseph Smith-- especially if apologists are taking everything he says and trying to make it fit like combining two different puzzles. If Joseph was inspired, then he would've gotten them all right, wouldn't he? Or why does God let his prophets score a 3% on literal divine revelation? Pretty soon the church is going to shift the narrative against actual historicity, remove their fun doctored pictures- and claim it was an inspired text like Moses. That's so much easier. And when they do, this video is gonna look pretty silly. Oh wait. Haha.

What this all boils down to is that IF Joseph Smith was a true prophet, he would have gotten ALL the facts straight. This explanation is just one more lame attempt to legitimize his claims and his bogus religion.Jesus established the One, true church. There was never a need to create another. Jesus told us that the gates of hell would not prevail against His church. he is God. No one can do better than He! Peace!

@nathanL22

3 жыл бұрын

Amen.

420

It’s supposed to be a true book and church yet you guys are theorizing and making interpretations lol

False!

Awesome

The Book of Abraham is true. The Holy Ghost told me. That is enough.

@davidthewitness

3 жыл бұрын

Can the Holy Ghost be in contrast with the Bible ? 1 John 5 says no

@Hamann9631

3 жыл бұрын

@@davidthewitness The Holy Ghost will never contradict the parts of The Bible which have been transmitted correctly. That is a very large percentage by the way. God never said He would never talk to us again. God never said we wouldn't get more scripture from Him. God never limits His ability to talk us.

@bobbilderson8556

3 жыл бұрын

This is a farce, right? I'm not joking but, the Holy Ghost actually testified that the Church wasn't true. I felt more peace knowing that I was in charge of my own life. You can keep all the good things you've ever learned and move on. Stop wasting time.

@Hamann9631

3 жыл бұрын

@@bobbilderson8556 Of course, you are in charge of your own life. The church has always taught that. You choose the consequences you face in this life and at Final Judgment. Perhaps the "peace" you are claiming ist he adversary not fighting against you because he has won.

@bobbilderson8556

3 жыл бұрын

@@Hamann9631 I believe that's why you feel so much peace and calm. The adversary has given up on you. I have many positive experience now too, which I know cannot be the work of the devil. By their fruits you shall know them, right? I've felt happier and more at peace than ever. I get more time with my family. I am saving up for my children's college. Etc. Is this the work of the devil? I think you've been deceived by him. His cunning words are like honey. He tells you that you can become like God. He tells you that you have a special truth that no one else has. Why would God not make his word known? It's clear that it's the work of the devil.

Hahaha this is simply not accurate. The whole book of Abraham is a fraud. Accept it. Move on.

Read the Book of Abraham. The Holy Ghost confirms it's truth. As for these guys in the comments, smh.

@lort1204

4 жыл бұрын

Kevlarx2-the Holy Ghost confirms it? When? Where? How? To whom? Does the Bible say so? Does the Bible state that Jesus would have another testament and another gospel than the one preached in the Bible? Dude read Jude 3. The word of God was once delivered to the saints and he was addressing believers. The book of Abraham is false and no matter how the church and Mormons try to spin it, it’s crap and it has no grounds for proof otherwise! It was Egyptian pagan documents! Why would God reveal is word through such docs? Even if you think it was just for spiritual whatever! It is nonsense. We have the rosita stone, do we not? No Egyptologist agree JS translated facsimiles correctly! He did not have the power of translation? Don’t be ignorant to the truth dude! Look it up for yourself...read the Bible like the esv, nasb, kjv (not the quad one) and see for yourself! You owe it to yourself to know the truth about your religion and than you can make in informed decision to either follow men or Jesus! Praise to the man right? Or praise Jesus of the Bible right? And not the Jesus that was created or Lucifer’s brother either? God was not a created man at one point or was he made of flesh and bones! What do you have to say? I have scripture! The authority I have in Jesus’s name! The Bible is true and I testify that Jesus is God and he is the way, the truth, and the life, no one come to the Father except through me! I have a testimony therefore I can join your club...it only cost 10% of your income!!

@KevlarX2

4 жыл бұрын

@@lort1204 "Dude" I've answered these same questions you have put forth hundreds of times. I'm tired of repeating myself every time someone new decides to spew the same old tired attacks over and over again. It does no good to keep responding to it, because you guys keep spouting the same typical calvinist mantra. Even when we give an answer that should satisfy the question, you guys ignore it, and then proceed to go back to the same stuff. Long answer short: Learn about what the Holy Ghost's mission was, that Christ himself explained in the New testament. See: (John 14:26, John 15:26, John 16:14, Acts 2:37, Romans 5:5, 1 Cor. 2:13, 1 Cor. 12:3, Gal. 5:22, Heb. 10:15, 1 Peter 1:12, 2 Peter 1:21, 1 John 5:6.) It was to confirm his truths. You do that by reading, pondering and praying sincerely, and believing that you shall receive an answer. (James 1:5.) That answer comes spiritually. If you cannot understand this, then you will never be able to learn truth from a spiritual perspective.

@KevlarX2

4 жыл бұрын

@@davidjanbaz7728 How does God give it to you? As I stated above Christ made it clear that HE does that through the Holy Ghost, whom HE sent to confirm HIS truths.

@KevlarX2

4 жыл бұрын

@@davidjanbaz7728 Holy Ghost, Holy Spirit. It's the same thing.

@KevlarX2

4 жыл бұрын

@@davidjanbaz7728 First of all, Mormons is not a correct term for members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. NO!, Members of the church do not believe that the Holy Ghost and Holy Spirit are different, that is a false assumption you have. As for the other term, I think what you are confusing is what we call the Light of Christ. The Light of Christ is given to every person, it is the knowledge given to us to know right from wrong once we achieve the age of accountability. Now, I'm not going to respond anymore to your comments further after this. You have the "spirit of contention." Like I stated before, If you cannot understand the mission of the Holy Ghost, you cannot understand spiritual truths, and you will remain in darkness.

A lot of dancing has to be done to justify Joseph Smith, Jr. fiction. None of Joes writing have any eternal truth or value.

In this video you was jenuwine and truthful and open to admit what was truth and what was purperted to be erroneous. If latter days saints would be more honest about their faith and not to sweep thing under the rug 🤣 they would be More accepted in the mist of Christian denominations.

@PapaKryptoss

4 жыл бұрын

We only need to be accountable before God not man.

@donaldjones9830

4 жыл бұрын

The Church is true.

@germanslice

4 жыл бұрын

@@davidjanbaz7728 But you have a problem with Jeremiah the prophet for Jeremiah said God would establish his kingdom on the earth in the last days through just only one man that God would single all out and draw away, after him. and then after drawing him out away from the rest of the Christian Heathen World who were all to themselves too busy arguing up with each other over the meaning of the Bible God would then establish his latter-day kingdom of Zion...... So God would do it right under your very noses all behind your backs because you were too busy arguing and fighting over the Bible instead of listening to him.... That is why the Christian world is in such a mess of arguing and confusion over who God is. God would lead that man out from among all that confusing nonsense and then establish Zion through him to clarify what the real truth of God is....... So God would embarass the Heathern World to show them that he is God and he is able to do his own work through one man which he picked out to do his work. God the Father picked him out to do that work to establish the kingdom. You have no idea of what faith and sacrifice in God means when you openly ridicule and foolishly mock the saints of God. God will turn all these things all upside down upon you in the judgement if you do not repent and humble yourself before him.....