I am not part of the LDS faith; however, I find their history to be fascinating. I don't live far from Nauvoo, IL and have visited the historical sites there. This was a very interesting episode, I would love to see more episodes with this gentleman who has obviously done great research and seems to give transparent answers to the questions. Great show!

@uinise5307

4 жыл бұрын

I love this too even tho I am a member but Sister Valerie Lynch, I agree but with the wife since she has done a lot more research as well to get her take too!

@michaelgarner3585

4 жыл бұрын

I am so learning and catching on what a crazy serious game but the life game to wake up help others awaken and believe and faith

@michaelgarner3585

4 жыл бұрын

AAngel Mykel

@michaelgarner3585

4 жыл бұрын

Carry bloodline

@michaelgarner3585

4 жыл бұрын

It's to Carry our specific blood lines🙏🌏💯😇👽🌌

I fully get behind people within the church aiding in transparency. These difficult subjects can't be swept away. It's doing damage to members who were never taught this. Big thank you!

@richardholmes7199

3 жыл бұрын

I'm 54. I remember of hearing about the polygamy when I was young.

@paulgregersen3570

Жыл бұрын

If Joseph was a con artist and lusted for polygamy then what about Abraham, Jacob, and Moses, and even Jesus also must be? Why? Read "Samuel 12:8" where Jehovah (Jesus) gave David several "WIVES" to take to his BOSOM ( meaning sex) and Jesus declared that he wanted to give David even more wives. Then as a result, the very polygamy that Jesus set up for David came forth later as THE BABY JESUS who was born through that same polygamy he gave David being called Christ, the "Son of David." The entire house of Israel being born from biblical polygamy. "See Genesis 30" John declared that anyone who denies that Christ came to earth in the flesh ( The son of David) is an anti Christ. "1John 4:3" Sounds like I wouldn't want to tell Jesus how he populated Israel without being declared an anti Christ and cast off forever. Rachael was Jacobs love of his life. She represented Israel's better half. She completed the 12 tribes of Israel by having Joseph number.11 and Benjamin number 12. She died at childbirth after completing the 12. She was the polygamist wife who sacrificed her own life to complete Israel. How do you recognize her? Genesis 37:9-11 clearly says she is symbolized by the harvest MOON! She gave birth to the tribe of Joseph who was to gather Israel in the latter days. "Genesis 49:1" Rachael went to heaven according to Revelation 12 she symbolizes the woman in heaven with 12 stars on her head and the harvest MOON. The polygamist woman who completed the 12 in heaven. John says she gives birth to Christ's kingdom today. The bride of Christ or the true church representing the completion of "Israel" and the gathering of the 12 once again today. Now we know why Jacob told his sons to bury him next to Leah and not the love of his life Rachael. Rachael was to return again (symbolically) today and become Christ's bride when he returns to complete the very polygamist family that he organized. Joseph Smith restored the bride of Israel (the church) and symbolically gave her up to become married to Christ! Joseph Smith was commanded to restore all things exactly as Peter prophesied in Acts. He AGAIN HAD TO Restore a modern polygamist bride by restoring Abrahamic polygamy. It had to start out as a polygamist bride or polygamist church! Why? To be a true restoration of all Israel. That, at first, even though later it was not needed today. This is the greatest reason to believe Joseph alone truly restored Israel's original covenants. Any person who cannot understand this better pray until they do or become apostates from Christ's plan. TO PROVE JOSEPH SMITH BEING QUOTED BY GOD HIMSELF IN THE BIBLE CLICK KZread VIDEO TITLED "Book of Abraham part 7" by Paul Gregersen to get there.

@Coach-Daisy

Жыл бұрын

1 Corinthians 7:2 ESV But because of the temptation to sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband. Deuteronomy 17:17 ESV And he shall not acquire many wives for himself, lest his heart turn away, nor shall he acquire for himself excessive silver and gold. 1 Timothy 3:2 ESV Therefore an overseer must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, sober-minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,

@paulgregersen3570

Жыл бұрын

@@TrevorThatBandanaGuy Going to forever and ever!

@paulgregersen3570

Жыл бұрын

@@TrevorThatBandanaGuy Only applies to you alone. Thousands of others here disagree.

As someone who used to be a critic, polygamy was something I used to use to attack the Church. As a current member, this video is something that I greatly appreciate. I'll definitely be checking out the website.

@samuelthygerson6009

2 жыл бұрын

@@getharryonsax How have they lost their testimony? They now understand it.

@samuelthygerson6009

2 жыл бұрын

@@getharryonsax People can take it either way.

@samuelthygerson6009

2 жыл бұрын

@@getharryonsax I do not know what you are implying, I was mainly stating that people could have thought it was an abusive relationship or God showing Emma that it was of Him like you said in your previous comment.

@Coach-Daisy

Жыл бұрын

It does sound sick. You know, here Solomon was the wisest man, given wisdom from God, but God had said in the law many, many, many years before Solomon was even born, “When you get a king for yourself, O Israel, don’t let him multiply wives for himself.” Solomon clearly did not use God’s wisdom and disobeyed God

@Coach-Daisy

Жыл бұрын

Third, a godly leader must not focus on amassing personal wealth. Deuteronomy 17:16-17 warns, “The king, moreover, must not acquire great numbers of horses for himself or make the people return to Egypt to get more of them. . . . He must not accumulate large amounts of silver and gold.” Great wealth has a way of turning a person’s heart from the Lord (see Matthew 19:23), and a leader of people should not allow himself to be distracted by riches. Fourth, a good leader must be content with his family situation. Verse 17 warns, “He must not take many wives, or his heart will be led astray.” A multitude of wives will turn a leader’s heart from the Lord. This is exactly what happened in the reign of King Solomon, who had 700 wives (1 Kings 11:3). Despite Solomon’s great wisdom, his heart turned from the Lord to honor his wives’ deities. Fifth, a good leader must be committed to God’s Word. Verses 18-19 add, “When he takes the throne of his kingdom, he is to write for himself on a scroll a copy of this law, taken from that of the Levitical priests. It is to be with him, and he is to read it all the days of his life so that he may learn to revere the Lord his God and follow carefully all the words of this law and these decrees.” There is no record of an Israelite king actually writing out the entire Law of the Lord, but King David serves as an example of a leader who was committed to the Law and was blessed as a result. Other kings of Israel who did not adhere to God’s laws did not enjoy the same leadership quality. Sixth, a godly leader serves in humility. The Israelite king was told “not [to] consider himself better than his fellow Israelites” (verse 20). Even though he sits on a throne, a king is still God’s servant. The benefit to Israelite kings who followed these commands was a long reign and an established dynasty: “He and his descendants will reign a long time over his kingdom in Israel” (verse 20). The people under a godly king also benefited. It is important that leaders in any nation, in any era, seek to be godly. “When the godly are in authority, the people rejoice. But when the wicked are in power, they groan” (Proverbs 29:2, NLT). FOR FURTHER STUDY Deuteronomy, Holman Old Testament Commentary by Doug McIntos

Thank you for defending the faith. It’s encouraging to see young people who are so dedicated.

@kevinevans8892

Жыл бұрын

Mormonism is a false religious system concocted by a man who had intercourse with scores of women. This is all documented. Will you accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior or will you continue to believe in Joseph smith's gospel?

@theodorebe

Жыл бұрын

“Neither shall he multiply wives to himself...” - Deuteronomy‬ ‭17‬:‭17 “Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate.” ‭‭Matthew‬ ‭19‬:‭4‬-‭6‬ “A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife…” ‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭3‬:‭2‬

@charlenegarrison6145

11 ай бұрын

Yeah you notice there are no women on this particular episode.

I'm getting baptized August 3 most likely I'm so excited

@williamhenley8593

5 жыл бұрын

That's awesome! Baptism is one of the important steps on a lifelong journey of spiritual development.

@MolyBDenum-lh3wy

5 жыл бұрын

Congratulations! I’m really happy for you..I’ve been a member for 20+ years and I can honestly say it’s one of the best decisions I have ever made 👌🏻❤️ all the best to you!

@SaneAsylum

5 жыл бұрын

Just be sure that you are being baptized to principle and for obedience to God and not man and not programs etc... It is between you and God and that's it when it all comes down to it.

@kevinpyne24

5 жыл бұрын

Welcome, Riley!

@rileybrantley7164

5 жыл бұрын

@tiger bush I'm 15

the time I think " I'll throw on a saint's unscripted video cause I can't sleep" and that's the time its 45 MINUTES LONG LOL

@DannyAGray

5 жыл бұрын

I was thinking the same thing. Hahaha!

@SaintsUnscripted

5 жыл бұрын

Katrina Shaw hahahah seriously, it's our longest video ever BY FAR. But we couldn't think of how to shorten it without leaving out important information 😅💁

Hopefully next time you will be able to address why Joseph lied about his participation in Polygamy.

THANK YOU!!! I cannot stress enough how much it means to me that you guys picked up this topic!

@paulgregersen3570

Жыл бұрын

If Joseph was a con artist and lusted for polygamy then what about Abraham, Jacob, and Moses, and even Jesus also must be? Why? Read "Samuel 12:8" where Jehovah (Jesus) gave David several "WIVES" to take to his BOSOM ( meaning sex) and Jesus declared that he wanted to give David even more wives. Then as a result, the very polygamy that Jesus set up for David came forth later as THE BABY JESUS who was born through that same polygamy he gave David being called Christ, the "Son of David." The entire house of Israel being born from biblical polygamy. "See Genesis 30" John declared that anyone who denies that Christ came to earth in the flesh ( The son of David) is an anti Christ. "1John 4:3" Sounds like I wouldn't want to tell Jesus how he populated Israel without being declared an anti Christ and cast off forever. Rachael was Jacobs love of his life. She represented Israel's better half. She completed the 12 tribes of Israel by having Joseph number.11 and Benjamin number 12. She died at childbirth after completing the 12. She was the polygamist wife who sacrificed her own life to complete Israel. How do you recognize her? Genesis 37:9-11 clearly says she is symbolized by the harvest MOON! She gave birth to the tribe of Joseph who was to gather Israel in the latter days. "Genesis 49:1" Rachael went to heaven according to Revelation 12 she symbolizes the woman in heaven with 12 stars on her head and the harvest MOON. The polygamist woman who completed the 12 in heaven. John says she gives birth to Christ's kingdom today. The bride of Christ or the true church representing the completion of "Israel" and the gathering of the 12 once again today. Now we know why Jacob told his sons to bury him next to Leah and not the love of his life Rachael. Rachael was to return again (symbolically) today and become Christ's bride when he returns to complete the very polygamist family that he organized. Joseph Smith restored the bride of Israel (the church) and symbolically gave her up to become married to Christ! Joseph Smith was commanded to restore all things exactly as Peter prophesied in Acts. He AGAIN HAD TO Restore a modern polygamist bride by restoring Abrahamic polygamy. It had to start out as a polygamist bride or polygamist church! Why? To be a true restoration of all Israel. That, at first, even though later it was not needed today. This is the greatest reason to believe Joseph alone truly restored Israel's original covenants. Any person who cannot understand this better pray until they do or become apostates from Christ's plan. TO PROVE JOSEPH SMITH BEING QUOTED BY GOD HIMSELF IN THE BIBLE CLICK KZread VIDEO TITLED "Book of Abraham part 7" by Paul Gregersen to get there.

@kevinevans8892

Жыл бұрын

@@paulgregersen3570 Joseph Smith sexed married women. He was an adulterer, a free Mason, occultist and false prophet. Stop defending this scoundrel

@paulgregersen3570

Жыл бұрын

@@kevinevans8892 All Christian's except Catholics were masons back then. George Washington and the best men on earth who wrote the US constitution were all Masons. It was a fraternity not a religion. These men built our Christian nation. When Joseph Smith left the masons in 1837 all the Christian churches were still in it for the next 70 years. Anti Mormons Don't tell you that. The entire house of Israel was born from Polygamy. Christ himself the son of David. That means if you are a Christian you are adapted into a polygamous family yourself. Like it or not! God found no fault with Jacob or Issac or Moses. In fact read Genesis 30 where Jacob was having sex with Reachiel and the maid at the very same time. God found no fault but blessed them. I hate to tell you this, but sex is not evil when the prophet is married my friend. Joseph had less sex than Abraham because the new DNA tests prove he only had children with Emma his first wife. Most of the other women only married him after death only. The next life only. Their husbands on earth didn't want them after death. These husbands gave their wife permission to be sealed to Joseph after every one was dead. Exhaustive research shows no one ever complained. Especially thousands of kids born through these women never complained about Joseph stealing their mother from their Dad. It simply never happened according to Don Bradley a PHD historian who just completed the church history professional research. In fact, because of all the lies you are hearing about Joseph Don himself just joined the church realizing that Joseph was not the kind of man your anti Mormons friends were trying to make him out to be. Only if you listen to his enemies who told lies about him only. Link UTube video titled ( BOA ep 16) link my name Paul Gregersen to get there .

Well said and explored! Like you all said, nobody feels good about polygamy, but talking about it so transparently makes it much less of a "boogeyman" subject.

I mean this as a compliment. I have come to this channel a few times to get my fix on silly Mormons (😳) and when I first saw Brian Hales on the thumbnail, I thought you guys were going to try and spin his research or something... I am happy to say this is the first episode I’ve respected and appreciate! And Brian has more respect from me than anyone else I disagree with on this subject.

Someone asked, and you guys delivered. Thank you for being such an aware channel!

I watched this whole video and here are 10 serious problems with what is said in the video, and/or not said: 1. The very title of this video is extremely misleading: "How was polygamy once ordained of God, but not anymore?" because eternal polygamy is still practiced in the church. 2/3rds of the current first presidency (Nelson and Oaks) are eternal polygamists. Eternal polygamy isn't dealt with until nearly the end of the video and he incredibly actually says "we have no idea what eternal marriage is, we have no idea what eternal plural marriage might be." How can a 30 year researcher who claims to know the doctrine, say such at thing, in the face of what Brigham taught? He even says about eternity: "If there is polygamy there." Wow, he clearly does not know or accept Brigham's teachings. 2. No mention that many members were excommunicated from the church over the course of many decades, merely for saying the quote "anti mormon lie" as it was described by many bishops and stake presidents for decades, until not even 20 years ago, that Joseph Smith had multiple wives. 3. The very offensive "sex cult" references. Why even plant that very negative idea? And no, most people DON'T make that assumption when they hear about early mormon mortal polygamy. Most people are just confused. 4. The 30 year researcher saying multiple times that he has no idea why polygamy was "commanded" (wow, did he not research Brigham Young's teachings?), 5. Hales reducing plural marriage to a "special trial for those people at that time" (until 1890, but there's a serious problem with using that year as the cutoff since the 1890 "manifesto" did NOT repeal any doctrine and only dealt with preventing a loss of church property and preventing men from going to jail, if you read it). Starting with Brigham Young, it was presented clearly by Brigham as an eternal reality for those who want exaltation. Not some temporary trial. 6. Hales' cliche that section 132 somehow "anticipates" (Hales' word) there being more women than men in churches. This is completely absurd and nowhere in section 132, and is used by uninformed people to evade the doctrine that Brigham taught repeatedly that plural marriage was necessary for exaltation. 7. Hales mentions verse 63 of section 132 but amazingly leaves out the other two reasons for plural marriage explained in verse 63. Just wow. 8. No mention in the video of section 132 revealing that Jacob (Nephi's brother) was wrong about David and Solomon being sinners MERELY for having multiple wives (David's were given to him by the prophet Nathan). Mormons routinely hide behind Nephi's brother Jacob so this is important. 9. The reality is not dealt with in the video that Joseph Smith actively resisted the command from the angel. It's mentioned in the video that the angel had to come to him THREE times, and the final time, the angel threatened Joseph with a sword, but he was threatened with DEATH. 10. Near the end of the video, Hales says "we don't defend polygamy" and calls it "unequal" and "sexist" and something "I would not want to practice." And THIS is who you bring on to explain an eternal doctrine that is backed up by loads of scripture AND the restoration? He's not building faith he's destroying it. A doctrine for which there is a massive section of the Doctrine and Covenants? A doctrine where Brigham Young, a co-prophet of the restoration, clearly taught was part of exaltation. Just wow. WHY didn't you guys ask Hales if he has a testimony of section 132 and a testimony of Brigham's teachings about polygamy? What an incredibly significant thing to leave out. I about fell out of my chair when he categorically claimed (falsely) that "Polygamy doesn't make anybody feel good." Just wow. He clearly does not have a testimony of the underlying restored doctrine of celestial plural marriage.

@williamturner6192

3 жыл бұрын

This was long and I skimmed. You're too harsh about it but I don't disagree with the points themselves.

@jamesmccluskey391

3 жыл бұрын

Are you writing a book?????..

@theodorebe

Жыл бұрын

“Neither shall he multiply wives to himself...” - Deuteronomy‬ ‭17‬:‭17 “Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate.” ‭‭Matthew‬ ‭19‬:‭4‬-‭6‬ “A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife…” ‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭3‬:‭2‬

"you're not supposed to feel good about polygamy" well, there's one small exception to that. My third great-grandfather had four wives. Once in a while I run into one of his descendants from another wife. As someone who deals with loneliness a lot, having someone who has that kind of connection helps me feel a little less alone. That wasn't the main purpose of plural marriage but it's a tender mercy that it inadvertently produced.

@Coach-Daisy

Жыл бұрын

Polygamy Is Demeaning to Women It’s also demeaning, obviously, to women. Any woman who’s married to a man who brought home another wife had to have been hurt by it. Their relationship obviously was affected by it. Solomon, God only knows how his wives felt. They weren’t wives at all. They might as well all been concubines, you know, to have 700 wives. Ridiculous. Just absolutely ridiculous. Why did God allow that? Well, a general way to answer that is: Why does God allow anything that people do that are stupid or sinful? He allows it because he gave us freewill.

@lizycole8999

Жыл бұрын

@@Coach-Daisy your reply has nothing to do with my original comment.

@Coach-Daisy

Жыл бұрын

@@lizycole8999 yes in fact it does.

@hrv4908

Жыл бұрын

@@lizycole8999 looks like the reply was deleted.

@Trancymind

Жыл бұрын

Lizy are doing all right as of 2023? Did you get married? Get a boyfriend? Or are you still struggling being alone? Just making sure you are doing ok. Are you an LDS member?

Imagine being this dude’s wife when he decided to devote 30 years to becoming a “polygamy expert”

@spence3101

3 жыл бұрын

If I remember correctly she did it with him.

@theactorjohnlarroquette

3 жыл бұрын

@@spence3101 who? This man in the video or Joseph? Because Joseph's first wife not only objected to polygamy but chose to stay in denial about it to her death bed.

@spence3101

3 жыл бұрын

Brian Hale.

@GMoney-B

2 жыл бұрын

Lol

@hrv4908

Жыл бұрын

Both (the Hales) wanted to know.

My Grandfather was a polygamist in Southern Utah. His 3 wives lived in different parts of Utah. one in Monticello, one in Moab and one in Ephraim. My great grandmother was left alone for weeks at a time in hostile Indian country raising her children. She had to raise and milk cows, and feed chickens, and pigs. She made her own lye soap, handmade all their clothes and washed them in a metal tub. My great-mother lived a very hard live mostly alone and suffered greatly. That really affected her and her children and from what I've read not in a good way. He had 21 children with his wives. My great grandmother had great faith in the LDS church that's what kept her going. I'm not that strong. I feel terrible for loyal Emma. Joseph betrayed her in the worst way.

@sadiegirl1243

Жыл бұрын

I don’t come from Pioneer lineage. What a proud heritage you have. Your g grandmother is very honorable.

@leahcarter6618

Жыл бұрын

Do more research into Joseph smith. He always denied that he practiced polygamy up until his dying day. Emma also said he never had more than one wife. Brigham young and others claimed Joseph was living the practice after his death.

@dannyrocket77

8 ай бұрын

Much love and respect your great-grandmother. Tough as nails. I come from pioneer ancestors. Could not do what they did. Respect!

Could you possibly do a Q & A livestream with Brian? There are lots of people with a lot know questions and I feel like he could answer them more effectively through a livestream where viewers can comment in real time?

I'm grateful for this video and at a later date I want to at least get the smaller book authored by Bro and Sis Hales. I think that my focus in life and my studies would be best served for me to come to know Christ and God and to obey the commandments.

It’s an awesome video, thank you so much for helping us clarify some of the items related to this topic. I am so looking forward to see what other questions people are asking , thanks to Dr. Hales and the whole team for this great info. 🙏🏻

@paulgregersen3570

Жыл бұрын

If Joseph was a con artist and lusted for polygamy then what about Abraham, Jacob, and Moses, and even Jesus also must be? Why? Read "Samuel 12:8" where Jehovah (Jesus) gave David several "WIVES" to take to his BOSOM ( meaning sex) and Jesus declared that he wanted to give David even more wives. Then as a result, the very polygamy that Jesus set up for David came forth later as THE BABY JESUS who was born through that same polygamy he gave David being called Christ, the "Son of David." The entire house of Israel being born from biblical polygamy. "See Genesis 30" John declared that anyone who denies that Christ came to earth in the flesh ( The son of David) is an anti Christ. "1John 4:3" Sounds like I wouldn't want to tell Jesus how he populated Israel without being declared an anti Christ and cast off forever. Rachael was Jacobs love of his life. She represented Israel's better half. She completed the 12 tribes of Israel by having Joseph number.11 and Benjamin number 12. She died at childbirth after completing the 12. She was the polygamist wife who sacrificed her own life to complete Israel. How do you recognize her? Genesis 37:9-11 clearly says she is symbolized by the harvest MOON! She gave birth to the tribe of Joseph who was to gather Israel in the latter days. "Genesis 49:1" Rachael went to heaven according to Revelation 12 she symbolizes the woman in heaven with 12 stars on her head and the harvest MOON. The polygamist woman who completed the 12 in heaven. John says she gives birth to Christ's kingdom today. The bride of Christ or the true church representing the completion of "Israel" and the gathering of the 12 once again today. Now we know why Jacob told his sons to bury him next to Leah and not the love of his life Rachael. Rachael was to return again (symbolically) today and become Christ's bride when he returns to complete the very polygamist family that he organized. Joseph Smith restored the bride of Israel (the church) and symbolically gave her up to become married to Christ! Joseph Smith was commanded to restore all things exactly as Peter prophesied in Acts. He AGAIN HAD TO Restore a modern polygamist bride by restoring Abrahamic polygamy. It had to start out as a polygamist bride or polygamist church! Why? To be a true restoration of all Israel. That, at first, even though later it was not needed today. This is the greatest reason to believe Joseph alone truly restored Israel's original covenants. Any person who cannot understand this better pray until they do or become apostates from Christ's plan. TO PROVE JOSEPH SMITH BEING QUOTED BY GOD HIMSELF IN THE BIBLE CLICK KZread VIDEO TITLED "Book of Abraham part 7" by Paul Gregersen to get there.

I know I’m late to the party on this vid, but thank you this helped a lot!

@celestiawaters2391

2 жыл бұрын

@@getharryonsax what the f***! Yes they did

@celestiawaters2391

2 жыл бұрын

@@getharryonsax delusional

What's fascinating to me is seeing a large number of people trying to live a commandment, not understanding it fully, but doing their best, amidst a sea of persecution and unrest.

"Mormon heaven doesn't look like the HBO show 'Big Love'." Lol! That phrase could be said from the pulpit at General Conference with a unanimous sustaining vote. Seriously, though. Great segment, guys. Brian Hales, thanks for the time you've put into helping bring clarity to these questions!

@jamesmccluskey391

3 жыл бұрын

What's a Mormon Heaven???? You are for sure ignorant of the fact that there is no such belief. There are three kingdoms of glory. in which no Mormon heaven is mentioned .

@ovrair6340

2 жыл бұрын

@@jamesmccluskey391 I think they mean the "mormon" concept of heaven

Thank you for this episode. Thank you for just being open and as honest as possible. Again, I am orthodox but I do think God loves us all and denominations are part of his perfect plan. God is perfect meaning no matter how off we are or how "incorrect" God makes all perfect in the end. Thanks again.

@rachelfreeman4533

4 жыл бұрын

Thx for being so respectful and I agree

@rachelrasmussen1101

3 жыл бұрын

I totally agree that Denominations are part of the plan. I always think of the Tribes of Israel. They all had separate duties and important callings.

@jbailey1898

Жыл бұрын

Yes!! I'm with you on this. May we stand shoulder to shoulder in gratitude and devotion when Jesus Christ comes again.

I appreciate you taking the time and being willing to make a video on this topic. It is commendable, given the sensitive and controversial nature of the subject. I would just like to offer this one thought: Considering everything you explained and offered information about; all the intricate details and the parts of the whole situation that still seem difficult to make sense of and the precarious juggling of things that seems like it will be necessary to, in the end, fully make it all work out, or at least it seems you hope it will... I can't help but see extremely good reason, through it all, for Jesus' take on the set-up of things in heaven as He described in Matthew 22:30. It just seems much more in line with the, as many of my LDS family and friends like to put it, "orderly" nature of God. As we all continue to wonder about how all this polygamy and celestial marrial stuff will shake out in heaven, it seems His teaching that, "...in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage..." will work out much better than what we seem to be left with otherwise. Just my thoughts. God bless you.

@SaintsUnscripted

Жыл бұрын

Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts and for being considerate in your approach. Your perspective is valuable, and I appreciate the respectful tone of your comment. It's great to see that despite differing conclusions, we can still have a meaningful discussion and find common ground in our love for Jesus and His teachings. I hope that as you continue listening to many of our other conversations, they will continue to be enlightening and thought-provoking. God bless you as well!

I was born into the LDS Church but have had my struggles with the doctrine of polygamy. Though I have since left the Church for other reasons I am still an ardent supporter of Joseph Smith and his teachings. If he did indeed do these things out of his attempt to be obedient to the commands of God then he has my utmost respect. And having not been personally present to witness these things and Joseph not here to personally defend himself I have to default to give him the benefit of the doubt. Plus, who am I to judge this man or any man for that matter. If we are to be judged by our actions in this life then let it be done by someone I think we can all agree is worthy to do so. Having said that I will say this about the possibility that plural marriage is a true principle. We just don’t know all there is to know when it comes to what happens next when we leave this life? There is far more we don’t know than we do know and it would be fallacy on our part to judge things when our view of eternity is from such an infinitesimal part of it! There are so many many things to be learned that if we were to know them all now we would probably be so completely overwhelmed that our brains would explode. There are undoubtedly many things yet to learn we wouldn’t be able to except let alone understand. Perhaps the introduction of polygamy was God in His wisdom giving us a hint of what is out there so that we don’t get too complacent with the little we have had revealed.

@randyjordan5521

2 жыл бұрын

Polygamy was not a "command of God." Joseph Smith introduced polygamy into Mormonism for one reason: so he could have sex with other women. Seeing as how polygamy was against both the law of the land and of the LDS church, it couldn't possibly have been a "commandment of God."

@Trancymind

Жыл бұрын

Jon Jensen- That is a fair and brave statement. I have no religion by the way. I consider myself a christian liberal. Which means I will sin regardless because I'm human. I feel like if we knew everything then we will lose purpose and growth living here on planet earth. It would become a dull and boring place because of the expectations.

@weldenjon

Жыл бұрын

@@Trancymind I completely agree with you. If we had all the answers now then there would be no purpose or reason to question:)

37:45 “We’ll figure it out when we get there” interesting that it’s a man on an all male panel saying that. Not having a female available for this episode was poorly thought out.

@Coach-Daisy

Жыл бұрын

exactly!! These guys know they lust after their flesh and the false images they have in their twisted minds how they might profit and boost their false mage to other low vibrational males. these are your weak willed males in every society who cause societies to collapse.

@hrv4908

Жыл бұрын

Women are part of that figuring out.

@AdamLovesHorror

Жыл бұрын

@@hrv4908 what?

@hrv4908

Жыл бұрын

@@AdamLovesHorror Figuring it out applies to women as much as it applies to men.

@AdamLovesHorror

Жыл бұрын

@@hrv4908 right but figuring it out when you get there is a tough pill to swallow in my opinion. Why isn’t more known? To each their own just seems, again, odd not to have a woman there for this topic.

Honestly, polygamy was a subject that a really struggled with as a young kid. I found out about it when I was around 9 or so, and I felt sick to my stomach. It took many years of studying it, and conversations to begin to grasp an understanding of it. As I became a teenager I had mostly resolved those concerns. However, I still held firm to the notion that it was a temporary practices for a temporary goal. By the time I got to my mission that conception broadened considerably, and read of a purported vision witnessed by Joseph and some of the other brethren of God the Father who was surrounded by his many wives, our mothers. At a certain point, it became undeniable that the principle itself was eternal, perhaps not required for exaltation, but certainly a common feature of Godhood. I'm in my mid-thirties now, and I've only ever had one relationship (ended a few years ago), and I struggle emotionally to comprehend the idea of having more than one woman in my life to whom I can give my devotion and love. It was severely emotionally draining that first and only time, to the point of nearly driving me to suicide, I don't think I'll ever attempt it again. The idea of any type of romantic or sexual relationship makes me nervous and agitated. Still, in a way that I find hard to comprehend, I find myself developing a testimony of the truth and eternality of the practice, that it isn't barbaric or unwholesome, but that perhaps features of mortality contaminate the way we engage with it. I don't fully understand why I feel compelled to defend the practice, since it conflicts so fully with my "minimalist" nature, but I do. I find myself often wondering whether we should have abandoned the practice, and that the second declaration officially ending it may have been of similar ilk to the priesthood ban? I wonder whether the Church has chastisement of some type coming our way in the future? Whatever comes, I have faith the Lord will work all things for our good. I very much appreciate the dedicated and devoted work of Bro. and Sis. Hales, it has shed so much needed light on a practice that none of us really quite understand today.

The prophet of the restoration would never lie. Period!

"If you [pre-suppose that] the Book of Mormon is true, then it gives you a different outlook on the whole topic of polygamy."

I have an issue with the accusation that "the information is out there and it's not a secret." It's certainly *not* in the narrative the church presents, especially before the internet. :-) I'm against the idea of ignoring how these facts were handled in the past. I am glad that these facts are no longer being treated as "anti-Mormon" doctrine.

@ieatfriedpikmin

5 жыл бұрын

Watch any LDS film about Joseph Smith.

@Debster279

5 жыл бұрын

I don’t care that much that his wives are not in the Restoration Movie. The facts are so elusive and it was so secretive back then, that a movie about the wives would not have anything to do with the gospel. I want to bring up the facts that are not even talked about, but I feel constrained by the Spirit, I assume my personal revelation is the same for our leaders, Spiritually feeling stopped.

@Debster279

5 жыл бұрын

This just wasn't a good video. In the right place and time it has been talked about in great depth, but it still has nothing to do with my salvation. I read a lot and could talk for hours, just not at Church, were are there focus on the fundamentals. From 1850s-1890, it was lived and talked about at Church, but since it's been over 130 years since anyone lived in the Church of Jesus Christ, we don't have lesson plans to talk about something that doesn't pertain to our salvation, or exaltation- as today there are enough members for people to find a spouse and get married. If I marry in the next life and my husband has already been married, that would be dealt with then, but no members of the Church will live polygamy without possible excommunication, since over 100 year ago it's been like that.

@Debster279

5 жыл бұрын

@tiger bush I knew people who were excommunicated, their names are taken out of the system, they cannot take the sacrament, but often NO ONE KNOWS- because they can and are encouraged to still go to Church, they just have to wait 4 years- usually, to get rebaptized... They were nice people, I was aware of the situation, I went to their baptism and they were happy through it all, but that was gossip, my friend's dad was exed a few times and no one knew... unless you sit next so someone and they don't take the bread and water, even then it could be someone smoked weed and they can't take it for just a month... , we all take it sitting with our eyes closed anyway, so it is a far cry from "shunning" happening with many other faiths... We want them to come back, but things like premarital sex, abortions- can get you exed. I cannot even support abortion in any way and recently quit a job I was so excited to have, because the doctor did abortions (didn't know for a while...).

@robertrosskopf4641

5 жыл бұрын

The law of polygamy is in the Doctrine and Covenants, so it wasn't a complete mystery.

Great episode, quality information.

Does D. Book not carry those books anymore? I tried following the links but no avail.

Great conversation!

17:02 This contradicts the belief that the highest degree of celestial kingdom is for the « continuation of FAMILIES »...... why would u be "sealed for eternity" to someone you’re not spending time with on earth?! This is the hardest thing I CANNOT defend as a member.... is it really all about families or not?

@williamturner6192

3 жыл бұрын

Wierd how common that assumption is. That said it is not incorrect to say that some who are sealed in this life won't be resealed to someone else later, it has been pointed out that things will be finally settled later.

@lizzicusmotion587

3 жыл бұрын

Bumping this comment, I wanna know too

Its too often the case that men have this nonchalant opinion of polygamy. If you read the journals of the women they were in terrible emotional and physical sorrow and pain. Their only consolation was the possible friendship with a sister wife which more often than not was a rivalry. There were no partnerships only hierarchies. This was not an inspired practice. It has been practiced here in the Telestial kingdom in many countries for millennia. It has been the cause of pain and suffering for so many women and children and so many members of the church losing their faith as they either have to believe in a God that favors men over women and ignores a woman's deepest needs or believe that Joseph got it wrong. I believe God allows men their agency to the fullest even if his other children suffer for it. This is the case in polygamy. My ancestors as well as thousands of others were told that polygamy was the only way to be exalted. Now the church leaders say that isn't true. This means that for the women who wrote about their terrible pain while living polygamy but they did it anyway only because they "knew" they would be exalted, went through it all for nothing. The men will be accountable for this treatment of women as they discarded their older wives for younger and younger ones. This was purely sexual. To this day we see the same pattern in the polygamous sects even if you don't include the horrific deeds of Warren Jeff's.

@jhmagoo

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you for these words Becoming Whole. This was so well put. Read some of my comments they ential my biblical research about the topic.

Thank you. This answers a lot of my questions

The best I can get from this conversation is.( we dont know why .) That works great for non thinkers!

I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. There is something the guest says that caught my attention. It was said that polygamy was a part of the restitution of all things. Then it was referenced something about the Abrahamic law and the Mosaic law being grounds on which polygamy was acted in during the Prophet Joseph’s life time. BUT why is the Mosiac and abrhamic law even a thought of consequence on this subject if Jesus Christ fulfilled those laws???

@kristinrichmond8185

Жыл бұрын

Excellent question.

@theodorebe

Жыл бұрын

“Neither shall he multiply wives to himself...” - Deuteronomy‬ ‭17‬:‭17 “Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate.” ‭‭Matthew‬ ‭19‬:‭4‬-‭6‬ “A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife…” ‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭3‬:‭2‬

Yet again, how come I wasn’t taught ANY of this as an LDS youth??Subsequently, I served a mission and was instructed to deny and laugh off ALL of this with prospective members. I’m in my forties now. Looking back at all of the lies and concealments of the Mormon church, I can only shake my head in disgust. If you’re thinking about leaving, DO IT! If you’re thinking about joining, RUN! Read the Bible like a child - Jesus’ grace isn’t complicated (unlike like the non-sense in this video).

@uinise5307

4 жыл бұрын

I was a bit of it growing up, the rest was research on my own and were talked about in deep conversations among leaders and scholars.

@ZDLsunny

4 жыл бұрын

I am happy for you!

@sycobabygirl

3 жыл бұрын

I'm sorry that happened to you. I wasn't very active in the church when I was younger, however I remember many discussions on polygamy. It definitely wasn't a secret while I was growing up. People aren't perfect. Those that taught you could have just not been able to get passed their own opinions and uncomfortable feelings on the subject.

If you want a woman's perspective, my Great Great Great Grandmother Eliza Pertridge Smith Lyman who was a plural wife first to Joseph Smith, then Amasa Mason Lyman talks about it in her journal. I have a copy of it as it exists in the BYU library and as it was transcribed in Family search. She talks about it as it was presented to her in 1843 and then again as a defender of the faith and its practice in the 1870's when the church was going through persecution by the Federal Government. Anybody can get it but if you want to to read her writing, respond to this posting.

I’ve never had a problem with polygamy, why is everyone so against what the early saints did.....you either believe in revelation or you don’t!

@jordanwutkee2548

3 жыл бұрын

Everyone is a unique individual with their own challenges. Everyone has struggles with different aspects of the restored gospel. Everyone has things that are easy to accept. Some people never join the church because of the history of polygamy. Others struggle with the concept of paying tithing, or with not drinking coffee. And many others don't.

@Sayheybrother8

3 жыл бұрын

Shouldn’t it be about the Savior?

@randycaswell3708

3 жыл бұрын

I don’t find in OT scripture an example of polygamy being a blessing. The wives hate it from Sarah, Leah and Rachel, Hannah...it breeds jealousy between the women.

@mrbobevans

3 жыл бұрын

Polygamy throws off the natural balance between men and women - 1 man and 1 woman.

@melanieweider2497

3 жыл бұрын

because it was wrong. and also illigal

At least 11 women were already married and most to husbands who were members of the faith…say no more, I got it! 13:00-15:00

@Maryel_R_R_Palmer

Жыл бұрын

Haha! I recommend watching Rob Fotheringham’s videos on this.

Switcheroos, head scratchers, angles with flaming swords, deceiving Emma, but zero coercion? God certainly works in mysterious ways. I do appreciate the transparency though guys. The discussion is more important.

Here are a few questions related to polygamy and the sealing ordinance of the temple that I find deeply troubling: Why wasn’t Emma the first women sealed to Joseph Smith? Why would the lord command Joseph to marry women that were already married? Why would the lord command Joseph to marry women as young as 14? Why did Joseph constantly hide his polygamous wives from his first wife Emma? Does anybody have sincere answers to my questions? I am deeply bothed by the nature of how polygamy was actually practiced.

@stardustgirl2904

4 жыл бұрын

A 14 year old was considered a woman ready for marriage in that day and age!!

@ZDLsunny

4 жыл бұрын

stardustgirl will this little girl go to the highest heaven if she met all standards and kept all Mormon commandments? How about the other wives, will they go there too? To live with JS in the highest kingdom? So God allows polygamy in his Kingdom?

@randyjordan5521

2 жыл бұрын

@@stardustgirl2904 Not to a man in his 30s who already had a wife and children.

@stardustgirl2904

2 жыл бұрын

There are many things God asks us to do, in this life, that we don't understand ! God tells us, not to lean, unto our own understanding ! God came to Abraham, and asked him to take his son to Mt Moriah, and sacrifice the Son he loved! Abraham did as the Lord asked of him. But the Lord told him not to harm Issac! The Lord 🙏🏻 work's in mysterious ways, that we don't understand! No matter what religion you are, the Bible has Polygamy in it wether we like it or not, it was practiced! As far as the Sealing ordinance goes, it's absolutely beautiful, and back then it was all new! The sealing is for those that want to go to the Celestial kingdom,where you live with God, again and you would have children and live with that person you are sealed to!🙏🏻All I know, is the church is true, and I love the gospel! I'm in the Temple every week and I love feeling the spirit that dwells there like no other place in the world ❗ Joseph Smith, is with God and he will be held accountable to the Lord, if he didn't do what God asked of him❗So I trust God , and I know Joseph Smith,was a Prophet of God! If you know the Bible, you know that prophet's we're not Perfect, Moses killed someone! Know one walks on water! I'm sealed in the Temple, and I'm so grateful to be with my husband forever ♾️ And by the way this channel isn't sponcered by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints! You might want to download the LDS app and get answers from the church directly. Hope this helps in some way!

@randyjordan5521

2 жыл бұрын

@@stardustgirl2904 You are a completely brainwashed fanatic. "God" didn't ask Joseph Smith to practice polygamy. His penis did.

First off, I really, really appreciate how honest and open you all try to be :) as someone on the outside looking in, I can still see a lot of confirmation bias and the occassional logical fallacy, but i KNOW it's not intentional and you genuinely mean well. Personally, I can't see how this particular issue doesnt shake your entire foundation of faith in your religion; but I also support the life style the LDS promotes and never want someone to have to go through the crisis of losing their faith so long as it is healthy, so I wont debate the issue any further and hope everyone's conclusions make them happy and lead a fulfilling life!

@jonbaker476

2 жыл бұрын

I definitely see where you're coming from, but as a person who was raised in it and has left he religion (but still live like a member for the most part, in regards to behavior and standards), I can say that the church promotes just as many bad behaviors as it does good behaviors, but most people don't see it. I'll give you a list of pros and cons in the church that most don't see, though I'll focus more on the cons. Pros: 1. They promote healthy family dynamics for the most part, especially in regards to having realistic boundaries, as well as trying to put family first in general. 2. They promote healthy living, specifically in regards to the Word of Wisdom. They don't drink, etc. 3. They make sure to remember their ancestors, which I find to be a very good thing to do. It has many benefits. 4. They're actually quite tolerant and respectful of other faiths, even though they can have a "we're the one true church and you all are false" kind of complex. 5. They have a very kind community and encourage the on-the-ground members to really participate in their religion in somewhat meaningful ways. 6. Do to them believing that they will become gods, they have a good perspective on trials and hardships in life. They view hardships as trails that temper them in the fires of godhood, so to speak. This allows them to cope relatively well with difficult scenarios in life, such as being burned in a house fire or losing a limb or something. Cons: 1. They use a lot of fear tactics on people in order to get them to obey the rules of the church, but are very good at disguising them as "blessings and promises". 2. They teach very unrealistic expectations on sex, and this causes a lot of issues in youth as they age. Lots of self hate for no reason whatsoever. 3.They have an unhealthy fixation on "ordinances" and obedience, which causes many members to be insane perfectionists (subconsciously). They brought back almost all of the laws of the Jews which had been fulfilled by Christ in the bible, and this causes a lot of mental health issues in the lds community. You feel like you have to constantly fit yourself into a box or else you are doing something wrong. 4. They demonize you as soon as you start to have any serious doubts or logical reasons for your doubts. This is where the term "anti-mormon" comes from, and it's used to disregard a person's opinions without question. 5. They prioritize feelings and emotional bias over reason and logic. This has led them to deny science and history for many decades, and once again has caused lots of psychological harm. 6. They gaslight you and blame-shift things onto the members as soon as they start to have reasonable doubt about the church or its history. An example would be: You start to doubt the validity of Brigham Young and his prophetic powers due to him blatantly teaching racism against black people on the pulpit of General Conference. When you provide evidence, they almost always say: "Well you're expecting perfection out of Brigham. He was a mortal man and wasn't perfect, and he was just giving his opinion on the matter, and his opinion is based on his experience in the 1800's. Your expectations are too high." To some it might seem subtle, but it is a blatant example of blame-shifting. This type of behavior causes a huge amount of members to feel guilty about every little thing they discover about the history. 7. They blatantly promote blind obedience as the pinnacle of virtue and faith. This can be found in every corner of the church and its media, particularly in its films about the pioneers. 8. They blatantly brainwash their children and manipulate them into being blind followers. 9. As you age in the church and progress through it's programs, they constantly hide information from you. They do not allow the members to know the full truth of what they're engaging in, and they constantly lie to you and mislead you so that you don't get spooked. 10. The leaders of the church are not transparent whatsoever in regards to the tithing funds and what they use them for. 11. At the age of twelve (male or female), they start to periodically put you alone in a room with a voluntary male figure (usually older and has to be married), and then that man asks you specific questions that have to do with sex. Examples: Do you masturbate? How often? How did you feel when doing it? Do you watch pornography? How often? What kind of material? It's really creepy and is very traumatizing, especially since they will then publicly shame you in front of the congregation by not allowing you to participate in the Sacrament, which everyone can see. Also, this causes the vast majority of members to develop a habit of lying about their personal life. This creates a disconnect within most members, where they are constantly denying a huge part of themselves, which is their sexuality. This is why lds folks always portray this crystal-clear persona of righteousness, but almost all of them have severe pornography addictions. They are constantly hiding their "wrongdoings" from other people, as well as from themselves. You can imagine the issues that come from this. These are just some reasons why it's not healthy growing up in the church. A lot of the kindness from the mormons is also fake, due to them CONSTANTLY being brainwashed into "sharing the gospel with every kindred, tongue, and people." They have a constant pressure to try and bring their friends into the church. The is definitely a genuine kindness in most members, but there is also a prominent streak of a salesman aspect. A lot of the time they will only be friends with you to try and convert you. I know this because I was raised in it full force and served a mission, etc.

Five of my Great Great Grandfathers practiced polygamy, I find it a strange practice but love the history.

@jamesmccluskey391

3 жыл бұрын

You find it strange??? It's not to David or Solomon of which the Bible says they had 700 wife's and concubines.

@jameshamilton9051

3 жыл бұрын

In the context of our day and time, I find it a strange practice. But certainly not in the past.

@randyjordan5521

2 жыл бұрын

@@jameshamilton9051 It was strange when Joseph Smith practiced it as well. In fact, it was so strange that it was against the law of the land and specifically against the laws of the LDS church.

@theodorebe

Жыл бұрын

“Neither shall he multiply wives to himself...” - Deuteronomy‬ ‭17‬:‭17 “Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate.” ‭‭Matthew‬ ‭19‬:‭4‬-‭6‬ “A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife…” ‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭3‬:‭2‬

Brian Hales, if he did his research, knows full well that Fanny married Solomon in 1836 and Fanny did not conceive a child until 1838. Do the math. Brian would also know that Fanny's parents never recorded her having a relationship with Joseph, nor did Fanny record having one. And Brian would know that Oliver refuted the rumor that Joseph told him about any relationship with Fanny: "Some of the rumors were said to originate with Oliver Cowdery, whose formerly close relationship with Joseph had become strained over a variety of matters. Some claimed Oliver heard Joseph confess to extramarital relations with Fanny Alger.11 In fall 1837, Joseph Smith confronted Cowdery about the rumor in a meeting attended by at least three others. In that meeting, Cowdery refuted the rumor that Joseph had confessed to him."12 History, 1838-1856, vol. B-1 [1 September 1834-2 November 1838] Rather than reporting history, Brian seems to be trying to push a narrative.

@jhmagoo

2 жыл бұрын

Excelent comment Ann Sertru. You are exactly right. Polygamy is part of the Satanci end time deception. The God of the Bible NEVER permitted it. If you read carefully, men did it who DIDN'T TRUST GOD. This man is a fruad and a snake.

@Maryel_R_R_Palmer

Жыл бұрын

Exactly. I recommend Rob Fotheringham’s videos on this topic instead.

Well. When doing historical research as a Park Ranger I was shocked to learn that it was untrue about an LDS female surplus population in the 19th century. Before that I was very comfortable with 19th century polygamy. Ever since I have been very uncomfortable with it. I was hoping Brian Hales would come up with a good sociological explanation. Instead he admitted he could not & that he was also uncomfortable with the subject. Now I want to explore polygamy denial. One more thing. We know our enemy John C. Bennett was a serial adulterer. Examine portraits of this guy & ask yourself " How could he have ever pulled this off?"

My absolute favorite exchange here - "Hearing that Joseph married teenagers for some people is terrible... but he also married an old woman, right?... Like, take your pick, did he like them young or old?" ;)

Part two on this please!!!!

As a member of the church in these latter days, both I and my wife's families were among those living plural marriage, and were it not for that we would not be here today. Many of our modern-day church leaders came through it as well, thus creating a modern-day riches seed or generation. I think its interesting that in many parts of the world its legal and accepted. MAN made GODS laws wrong, it was practiced in the old testament as well, look how well it worked for Abraham to Isaac, Jacob... to keep a tight hold on what is taught in the family... again raising good seed.

@7dixiebug

Жыл бұрын

A point of correction...Abraham didn't live polygamy. Hagar was a female slave and was not married to Abraham. It was customary in his day to have children with the slave of a wife if it was decided to do so. But as I'm sure you know, later Sarah regretted what she had done regarding Hagar and so Hagar and Ishmael were driven out into the wilderness...something that wouldn't have happened had Hagar been a wife. Isaac did not live polygamy either and as for Jacob, he was tricked into marrying Leah and so later married Rachel which was permitted by law. The other women he had children with were also concubines which again, were female slaves. I doubt he would have ever had two wives if he had not been tricked into marrying Leah in the first place. And nowhere in the scriptures (minus D&C 132) is polygamy ever promoted by God or condoned by him. And as many now know, the D&C addition was put in years after Joseph's death and it's authenticity and connection to Joseph has been in question for many years. I too am from a polygamy heritage by the way but I still believe I would be here today anyway since I God's plans and laws are never thwarted by man. Just because something is legal, doesn't mean God condones it as I'm sure you know.

@michaelbennett7561

10 ай бұрын

Can't really question the fact that Jacob was married to both Rachael and Leah at the same time.

@7dixiebug

10 ай бұрын

@@michaelbennett7561 That's right. But it was cultural and he was tricked into marrying Leah as we know. Just because Jacob lived polygamy, doesn't mean the Lord commanded it. There isn't a place I have found in the scriptures anywhere where the Lord commanded it. It's more like he tolerated it. Like slavery.

@michaelbennett7561

10 ай бұрын

@@7dixiebug He wasn't tricked into having Bilhah and Zilpah as wives though, which were after marrying Rachael and Leah, who were both still alive and his wives at the same time. Just because we don't have a modern record of it being a commandment for Jacob or others in the Bible, does not mean that it was not commanded at some point, or that Joseph Smith could not have been commanded to live this. In the Book of Mormon, polygamy is denounced, where it says in Jacob 2:27 "Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none;", but provides an exception a few verses later in Jacob 2:30, where it says "For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things." There is no doubt that being commanded to live polygamy, especially for people raised in a society where it is totally looked down upon, was an incredibly difficult challenge for early members of the church to accept. It would be for me if somehow it were reintroduced today. I think in a lot of ways, it was like a modern day test of Abraham and Isaac. Something incredibly difficult that the Lord asked them to do, flying against their previous conceptions of what is right, which would try their faith.

@7dixiebug

10 ай бұрын

@@michaelbennett7561 I used to think that as well. But I believe that Bilhah and Zilpah were concubines, which are female slaves. Just like Hagar. Those men lived polygamy because it was the culture they were brought up in, not because they were commanded to do it. Just like those who live polygamy today in some parts of the world. Joseph adamantly taught until his death (and so did Hyrum) that polygamy was an abomination and in the end threatened to excommunicate anyone he found living it. Those are the actual words of Joseph, not those who reported what they said Joseph said to him years, even decades later. To believe that Joseph lived polygamy means I'd have to believe he deliberately lied to his own people while secretly living it, lying to his wife Emma who stated until her own death that Joseph never lived it and also went against the 13th article of faith that declares we believe in obeying and sustaining the laws of the land. I just can't believe that of Joseph Smith. He wasn't like that. And lastly, polygamy is awful for women. It means no one in the "marriage" can have a deep romantic relationship with their husband. It's simply not possible to have that with one man and several women. And marriage has never been about prioritizing having a lot of babies quickly. If so, why didn't the Lord give Adam another woman when Ever took the forbidden fruit? Noah didn't have many wives either and they had to repopulate the earth. Sorry this was so long. I hate thinking of Joseph Smith being thought of as being guilty of this. One more thing....all the anti Mormons out there believe Joseph lived polygamy and they use that to get people to leave the church. So why do we also say the exact same thing?

Can you post the reference given to the documentation as well as Joseph Smith Polygamy. I tried but apparently have the wrong spelling or wording. This was an excellent discussion on the subject.

Hi Brian, my Favorite old neighbor! You are an Incredible Compiler and Researcher of Deep Knowledge. Thanks for every Single gigabyte and your Friendship as well!! Much Love, Always!

The point made about Joseph marrying women who were already married confuses me. So what Brian is saying is that these women were never legally married to two husbands, but rather they were sealed to two men and that they would get to choose later? Am I missing something? I don't think that really answers why Joseph decided to marry these women.

@TNKYTRC

5 жыл бұрын

Evan C the wife was legaly married with her husband but sealed to Joseph. In the afterlife she belongs to Joseph, not to her husband. So the woman would not have had sex with Joseph. Thats what Brian C Hales tells us. But....... D&C 132:41 :”And as ye have asked concerning adultery, verily, verily, I say unto you, if a man receiveth a wife in the new and everlasting convenant, and if she be with another man, AND I HAVE NOT APPOINTED UNTO HER BY THE HOLY ANOINTING she hath committed adultery and shall be destroyed.” If the wife IS appointed by the “holy anointing” she than can have sex with two, or more, men? Could this be Polyandry? Could Joseph had sex with an allready married woman?

@libertynindependence

5 жыл бұрын

Does it speak anywhere in the Bible or Book of Mormon about women or wives being sealed to husbands? If the only place it is said as scripture is in latter day "revelation" then we should question whether it's of God or not.

@devonblake731

5 жыл бұрын

libertynindependence, The teaching is eluded to in the Bible. 1 Corinthians 11: 11 Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord. Matthew 18: 18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Ecclesiastes 3: 14 ​I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be ​​​for​ ​​​ever​: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God doeth ​it,​ that ​men​ should ​​​fear​ before him. Mark 10: 7 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife; 8 And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh. 9 What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

@earthrenew

3 жыл бұрын

They were *married* to their husbands for their time on earth only and *sealed* to Joseph for the afterlife only.

It was never ordained of God. Yes, old testament people practiced it BUT we read nowhere in the Bible where God TOLD them to do it. The Mormon church ceased the practice after the United States government told the church if they want Utah to be part of the union they need to stop it.

Thank you

The guy in the middle has two wedding rings. 🤣🤣🤣 Just kidding! Lovin' this episode. 💕

@GMoney-B

2 жыл бұрын

Oh my gursh… lol you bad. 😆

My question is where in the Bible did God command they’ll shall practice polygamy

@libertynindependence

5 жыл бұрын

I don't believe it does. Though many significant figures had multiple wives and or concubines.

@libertynindependence

5 жыл бұрын

Also the Book of Mormon is very specific in condemning polygamy.

@robertrosskopf4641

5 жыл бұрын

The Law of Moses commanded that a widow should marry her husband's brother, so that he could raise up seed to his brother. He could also raise up seed to himself with his own wife. The law isn't referring to unmarried kids, but married men.

@myeyepie

5 жыл бұрын

libertynindependence the Book of Mormon is very specific in condemning polygamy that is not commanded or allowed by God. But that is a far cry from saying it’s not commanded at all.

@CraigEstep

5 жыл бұрын

The Bible is full of contradictory stories, commands, and examples of righteousness. For instance, the story of Adam and Eve and the command that the two become one flesh seems to clearly indicate monogamy is God's intent (unless you think a man must become one with each of his wives). It is never commanded EXCEPT in the very specific and rare case of a brother dying before he's had children and another brother existing to marry the widow in order to continue that family line. Despite the rarity of the situation where polygamy is commanded and the opposing but prominent example of Adam and Eve's monogamy, many righteous people practiced polygamy. The answer, IMO, lies in learning how the Bible came to be, according to the overwhelming majority of Biblical scholars. Simply put, it's a product of ancient men, writing what they think and often attributing it to other men (pseudepigrapha); it is a product of culture and made-up beliefs evolving over time. Some of it happened; most of it either didn't happen the way it's written or didn't happen at all. Trying to live your life according to a bunch of ancient books written by random men compiled into a barely coherent collection is a recipe for confusion. Hence the thousands of splinter Judeo-Christian sects which exist today. It's a mess. I propose that we all agree to take those couple dozen more powerful stories from the Bible, treat them as literature which communicates some powerful truths about the human experience, and leave it at that; not base our worldviews and eternal views on it. My proposal is never gonna happen but I like to imagine it might one day.

great show love the transparency as far as the fear goes...um. all of you guys are...guys. this is definitely more of an issue for women. trusting Jesus is the answer but that is hard.I appreciate that the unfairness of it is stated.

Is there a video available of the expert speaking on Ms. Pratt or Ms. Rigdon?

John C. Bennet was caught in adultery with several women in Navuoo and ultimately excommunicated. Joseph tried to help him but he was embarrassed, took offense, blamed the Prophet of doing the same thing and became an enemy of The Church from that time forward. Joseph also received a visitation from an angel holding a sword that told him that The Church would not move forward one more inch unless he practiced the law of plural marriage. He agonized this decision and put it off until he could no longer do it and had the visitation from the angle. My source for this information is from Truman G Madsen.

@reedwycoff6937

2 жыл бұрын

Poor Joseph. I can't imagine the burden of having to take on other men's wifes. He is truly a saint unlike Bennett.

GREAT guest. You guys do a fantastic service.

“What a thing it is for a man to be accused of committing adultery and having seven wives, when I can only find one. I am the same man and as innocent as I was fourteen years ago and I can prove them all perjurers.” History of the Church Vol.6 p.411 Joseph Smith May 26, 1844

@riccardorome

5 жыл бұрын

Thomas Choate Joseph either lied or he was the victim of a nasty conspiracy against him.

@incogneato6725

4 жыл бұрын

Here is a little though experiment for you: Imagine you are living in Germany in August of 1942. You are hiding Anne Frank and her family in your attic. One night the SS knock on your door and say "Do you know of any Jews hiding around here?" Are you going to say "Well, you got me, I can't tell a lie, they are up there."? I hope not. I hope you would lie to them to try and save lives. There is no moral issue with killing in self defense or the defense of others. If I can kill to save a life and that is moral, why can't I lie to save a life and have that be moral as well? That is what Joseph was doing above, lying so that mobs would not come attack and murder his people. I have no issue with it.

@krissander1

4 жыл бұрын

@@incogneato6725 except as a prophet he is supposed to be God's mouth piece on Earth, if he lies well, how can you trust anything he said, and the fact that the LDS church has been less than upfront about it hardly inspires confidence.

@incogneato6725

4 жыл бұрын

​@@krissander1 I've already clearly explained how I don't see him saying that as an immoral act, lives were at stake. If you want to say turning Anne Frank over the Nazis rather than lie to help hide them is the right thing to do, admit it. If you agree there would be nothing immoral about lying to save a life then how can you fault him for it? As for being a prophet, he was not speaking on behalf of God in that instance, he was clearly speaking for himself. Only God is perfect, Abraham was certainly less than honest with Pharaoh yet his status as a prophet is not in question. Peter lied 3 times denying he knew Christ, etc. etc.

@michaelgarner3585

4 жыл бұрын

It's ok I are Welcome wanted needed and lived be pure of heart 💓💗❤️🙏🙌😇💯

Way to through Nancy Rigdon's story completely to the wayside. If anyone wants more information on it, I recommend going to Thinker of Thoughts and the Happiness Letter on youtube

Thanks for the info.

I think Joe Smith and Warren Jeffs were not all that different in a lot of ways.

@rygy227

3 ай бұрын

I would disagree, warren was a pervert at a young age and molested his sisters, he then used his position to force, coerce, and manipulate others. Joseph was told if he didn’t enter the practice he would be removed, warren never had any qualms about anything he ever did.

J.C. Bennett was kicked out of town for living “Spiritual wifery”, no longer Mayor, or leading the Nauvoo Legion. Spiritual wifery was never lived by Joseph Smith.

@ddfstar7588

5 жыл бұрын

hello small world. lol

@Debster279

5 жыл бұрын

DDFStar Hi again! Yep, I am pretty passionate about the facts in Church History, and maybe it’s just the girl in me, but to ignore the darkness of Spiritual wifery in Nauvoo is making everything grey, when the full story shows the “why” for the many seemingly odd actions by Joseph in 1842. Or maybe it’s just a generation thing, as Kwaku tried to bring this stuff up. Oh well, Joseph Smith was/is the good guy... Thanks for the comment!

I love the videos from brian hale!! 👌

@paulgregersen3570

Жыл бұрын

If Joseph was a con artist and lusted for polygamy then what about Abraham, Jacob, and Moses, and even Jesus also must be? Why? Read "Samuel 12:8" where Jehovah (Jesus) gave David several "WIVES" to take to his BOSOM ( meaning sex) and Jesus declared that he wanted to give David even more wives. Then as a result, the very polygamy that Jesus set up for David came forth later as THE BABY JESUS who was born through that same polygamy he gave David being called Christ, the "Son of David." The entire house of Israel being born from biblical polygamy. "See Genesis 30" John declared that anyone who denies that Christ came to earth in the flesh ( The son of David) is an anti Christ. "1John 4:3" Sounds like I wouldn't want to tell Jesus how he populated Israel without being declared an anti Christ and cast off forever. Rachael was Jacobs love of his life. She represented Israel's better half. She completed the 12 tribes of Israel by having Joseph number.11 and Benjamin number 12. She died at childbirth after completing the 12. She was the polygamist wife who sacrificed her own life to complete Israel. How do you recognize her? Genesis 37:9-11 clearly says she is symbolized by the harvest MOON! She gave birth to the tribe of Joseph who was to gather Israel in the latter days. "Genesis 49:1" Rachael went to heaven according to Revelation 12 she symbolizes the woman in heaven with 12 stars on her head and the harvest MOON. The polygamist woman who completed the 12 in heaven. John says she gives birth to Christ's kingdom today. The bride of Christ or the true church representing the completion of "Israel" and the gathering of the 12 once again today. Now we know why Jacob told his sons to bury him next to Leah and not the love of his life Rachael. Rachael was to return again (symbolically) today and become Christ's bride when he returns to complete the very polygamist family that he organized. Joseph Smith restored the bride of Israel (the church) and symbolically gave her up to become married to Christ! Joseph Smith was commanded to restore all things exactly as Peter prophesied in Acts. He AGAIN HAD TO Restore a modern polygamist bride by restoring Abrahamic polygamy. It had to start out as a polygamist bride or polygamist church! Why? To be a true restoration of all Israel. That, at first, even though later it was not needed today. This is the greatest reason to believe Joseph alone truly restored Israel's original covenants. Any person who cannot understand this better pray until they do or become apostates from Christ's plan. TO PROVE JOSEPH SMITH BEING QUOTED BY GOD HIMSELF IN THE BIBLE CLICK KZread VIDEO TITLED "Book of Abraham part 7" by Paul Gregersen to get there.

I’m not a Mormon but I’ll admit you can’t actually find any condemnation of polygyny in the Bible (Polygyny is not the same as polygamy, polygyny is one man multiple women)

@DavidNellTheHarbinger

4 жыл бұрын

Shhhhhhh don't spoil the fun, I am enjoying this lol

@williamturner6192

3 жыл бұрын

Right? Wierd why people would acuse ancient prophets when those ancient talking-to-God prophets didn't get reprimanded directly.

@Chief592

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah exactly

@randyjordan5521

2 жыл бұрын

When Joseph Smith introduced polygamy into his religion, polygamy was against the law of the land and specifically against the published, canonized laws of the LDS church. LDS doctrine also states that if you keep the commandments of God, you need not break the law of the land. So clearly, polygamy was not a commandment of God, according to Mormon doctrine.

@theodorebe

Жыл бұрын

“Neither shall he multiply wives to himself...” - Deuteronomy‬ ‭17‬:‭17 “Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate.” ‭‭Matthew‬ ‭19‬:‭4‬-‭6‬ “A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife…” ‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭3‬:‭2‬

Joseph Smith isn't the one who started the polygamy idea. That started after his death, and many of his writings were added to or altered to make it look like he had something to do with it. It may very well have been the reason he was murdered. I used to operate and investigations firm and have been studying ballistics and gunfights for quite some time. I've been teaching it for over 50 years. That gunfight did not go down the way to church States. The only reason somebody would claim it Joseph Smith started it is because they do not want to admit the evil that hadn't gotten into the church with at least 325 Apostles if not almost half a dozen of the several dozen at the head of the church. But several of the top dogs were decidedly at odds with Joseph Smith. Brigham Young even hated blacks and could not understand why Joseph Smith kept giving them the priesthood. Another thing he didn't like about Joseph Smith.

@kickdiabetes9532

2 ай бұрын

So far off the mark mate. Abraham, Issac and Jacob all practiced it. Along with Moses and every other prominent prophet. You'll be surprised to find out soon enough that Christ practiced it aswell

@kickdiabetes9532

2 ай бұрын

Point is it's not something just whipped up. It's an eternal doctrine

You stated that to be exalted you must be married. What about the Apostle Paul?

@robertrosskopf4641

5 жыл бұрын

Paul was probably married at one time.

@toyosioyejobi309

4 жыл бұрын

Jesus!! Heresies is all i see here my goodness

@ZDLsunny

4 жыл бұрын

Cannon G mark 12:23

@brettmajeske3525

3 жыл бұрын

@@robertrosskopf4641 Maybe, but honestly we do not know. The was a high childbirth mortality back then.

@goodsoniragi9948

3 жыл бұрын

2 Peter3 15 16 may help you

Why don't you guys do an episode on MESSIAH BEN JOSEPH? It's one of the most compelling evidences. One question I wish you would have asked in this session is, 1) why didn't Emma come with the church to Utah? Certainly Smith would have told her that Brigham Young would one day lead the church, since he made that prophecy early on. Brigham even made some unsavory remarks about Emma and Hell. And 2) why didn't the angel go to Emma directly instead of going to Joseph? I suspect an angel appearing to her wouldn't have made much of a difference, but 3) do you think Emma will spend some quality time in hell for her vocal opposition to plural marriage? I know this is a judgment call, but it's worth speculating. And 4) how much of a role did Emma play in Joseph's martyrdom? Was she the primary role that Joseph returned to be arrested? And, 5) did Joseph _know_ he was going to die at Carthage? We generally believe he did when he said he was going like a lamb to the slaughter, but is this a myth? God knew Joseph was going to die, but did Joseph? Finally, 6) there was talk of Brigham Young holding the presidency open for Joseph's posterity. Was he seriously considering this? It seems as though it would have been a monumental mistake. In 1971, I met Joseph Smith's grandson, Wallace Smith, the son of Joseph Smith III. He looked very much like Joseph Smith would have looked had he lived to an older age. He also was the president of the RLDS. Had Emma gone to Utah, it's safe to say there would be no RLDS/CofC. This episode was great, and it left me wanting more on this topic. I seriously would have understood the way Emma felt had I been her. Still, I've always felt her reticence to plural marriage helped seal Joseph's doom. But if I'd lived at the time, I never could have sustained Joseph III as prophet, seer and revelator of the church.

@jbailey1898

Жыл бұрын

I think our modern day selves could not say precisely what we would think if we had been natured and nurtured in the time period of Joseph. One of the gifts I hope with all my heart to receive is true understanding of how the events of this world have unfolded.

Love this! :D!

@21:28-21:48 Should cause every person to question everything Brian Hales presents. He leaves out vital information that shows the account is in no way credible and shouldn't even be cited due to the source. The account is - Joseph asked Levi Hancock, the brother-in-law of Samuel Alger, Fanny’s father, to request Fanny as his plural wife: "Samuel, the Prophet Joseph loves your daughter Fanny and wishes her for a wife. What say you?” Uncle Sam says, “Go and talk to the old woman [Fanny’s mother] about it. Twill be as she says.” Father goes to his sister and said, “Clarissy, Brother Joseph the Prophet of the most high God loves Fanny and wishes her for a wife. What say you?” Said she, “Go and talk to Fanny. It will be all right with me.” Father goes to Fanny and said, “Fanny, Brother Joseph the Prophet loves you and wishes you for a wife. Will you be his wife?” “I will Levi,” said she. Father takes Fanny to Joseph and said, “Brother Joseph I have been successful in my mission.” Father gave her to Joseph, repeating the ceremony as Joseph repeated to him." This account is so ridiculous and unbelievable. First if Joseph was trying to keep his practicing polygamy secret he would have gone directly to Fanny or her parents and not brought Levi Hancock into it. Second, multiple adults report that they struggled with polygamy when it was presented to them but we are supposed to believe that a young woman's parents were just like sure no problem have my daughter? Now if the account isn't reason enough to question, the source of the account definitely is. It is as follows: "The sole detailed account of when and how the relationship began comes from Fanny Alger’s first cousin Mosiah Hancock (1834-1907). Hancock, who was a toddler at the time the relationship was discovered and not yet been conceived at the time it supposedly started wrote his account in 1896 as an addendum to the autobiography of his father, Levi Hancock. Although Levi Hancock had written regarding his own life at the time in question, he had omitted any direct reference to Joseph Smith’s relationship with his niece Fanny (daughter to his sister Clarissa Hancock Alger). Mosiah, believing he had accurate information to fill this lacuna, did so. Autobiography of Levi Ward Hancock (with additions by his son Mosiah Hancock dated “Farmington Davis Co Co [sic], 1896”), 61-64-writing of Mosiah Hancock." Mosiah Hancock was a toddler when Fanny lived with the Smith's Mosiah Hancock was a polygamist The account was written in 1896 inserting it into his fathers history. Levi Hancock, also a polygamist, made no mention of the experience or of any relationship between Joseph and Fanny. Marrying a prophet to your niece is definitely noteworthy but only if it actually happened, which it did not, hence why Levi made no record of it.

Thank you guys for stuff like this! You’re doing great work:)

@Coach-Daisy

Жыл бұрын

no they are not. the world doesn't need more sexists

Can you pleaseeee do a video on the topic of 'spirit children creation'? Honestly I'm just wondering if spirit children are created the same way that physical children are created here on Earth... because if they are that's kindaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa uno weird

@trevorjones4270

3 жыл бұрын

I may be wrong, but I believe what Latter-Day Saint doctrine says about this is that our intelligence always existed for eternity, but we lacked the ability to progress because we didn't have a body. God was once this way too, and he was sent to his own "earth" to be tried and tested. After He became an exalted being, he saw our spiritual intelligence and created a plan for us to be like Him one day. I could be way off, but I think that's what happened. So, like, God probably didn't have sex to create us if that is your question. I think it's like our spirits have existed since forever, just like God's, but God became an exalted being before us. We'll find out one day, though.

@avoice423

Жыл бұрын

Think about it....if being in a celestial marriage is essential for exaltation and we are literally Gods children, then of course it is that way, relations are necessary or at least preferred. And no, spirits have not always existed, what is referred to as intelligences have.

Maybe Polygamy should be difficult for us and uncomfortable so we can more appreciate how uncomfortable it was for those early Saints. God will bless them for their faith.

So if joseph smith wasn't a fraud, how come the original book of Mormon quoted bible passages that had errors in them, the same errors that were in the edition of the King James Bible that he owned?

I heard a talk once from a sister who (I want to be extremely careful here.) had some family that practiced this and the relationships between plural wives could be very special. While they loved their husband, they were almost more tightly knit with their sister plural wives. They became mentors and helpmeets to each other as well. Years later I learned of a faithful brother who was asked by his wife to be sealed to his wife's best friend.

It doesn't make anyone feel good because it is not of God! The fruits of the spirit would feel good!

Wow. The mental gymnastics needed to believe this stuff is crazy.

This is my first time ever listening to Brian and I love him! I’ll have to pick up his books.

There is no evidence that polygamy was anything more than a cultural practice in the Old Testament. It was not commanded by God, except in Joseph Smith's revision of the Bible. Polyandry was especially forbidden in the Jewish culture. For Joseph Smith to claim that he had been commanded by God and threatened by an angel with a flaming sword, is so manipulative that it defies description. The women he persuaded to "marry" him by participating in a fake wedding ceremony were no more married under the laws of the land than they were before the ceremony. But while that fake wedding ceremony, which was illegal under the laws of bigamy in every state and territory where it was practiced, gave Joseph Smith conjugal rights, the women had NO LEGAL rights whatsoever. They had no claim to his name, his property, or his financial support. This was, in my opinion, emotional and sexual abuse, and I have lost whatever respect I ever had for Joseph Smith. How can men who consider themselves good men, like Brian Hales, continue to support such a man?

@mkprr

5 жыл бұрын

deskjockie49 good points. Brothers marrying widowed sister in laws though were commanded and would have sometimes of necessity been polygamous. Hales doesn’t seem like he wants to defend the practice, he just doesn’t have much of a choice if he finds other evidence of the restoration convincing.

@Applest2oApples

5 жыл бұрын

BeCauSe tHey FoRGivE hIM...

Accepting the principle of plural marriage being a commandment from the Lord at the time seems to almost be as much a sifter in the Church today as it was then.

I VERY much appreciate his testimony and answer to the last question....cuz no...no NO!

I'm still not OK with polygamy. Great video though.

@benjamincochran4622

5 жыл бұрын

Lori Neilson Do you support same sex marriage?

@libertynindependence

5 жыл бұрын

The Bible and Book of Mormon stand as a testament against the doctrine of polygamy. Just because some major players had multiple wives does not make it right before God. But we are all sinners in need of repentance.

@stardustgirl2904

5 жыл бұрын

@@benjamincochran4622 No we do not support same SEX MARRIAGE, BECAUSE GOD doesn't support it! He is very clear about his beliefs on same sex marriage, it's listed in Leviticus! God doesn't bless same sex marriage, with children!

@stardustgirl2904

5 жыл бұрын

Well look at it this way, Nun's have marriage ceremonies to marry Jesus Christ, all the Nun's do this around the WORLD! THEY ALL EXPECT TO BE MARRIED TO JESUS CHRIST, WELL THAT SOUNDS LIKE POLYGAMY TO ME!!!

@dansedevie123

4 жыл бұрын

@@stardustgirl2904 Nuns are not literally married to Jesus (marriage in the human sense). It's symbolic. In reality, as members of the Church, the Bride of Christ, all Christians are all called to be “spouses” of Christ- united to Jesus. For Catholics there is no marriage in heaven

I feel like this left me with the same exact questions lol

@thinkingman1820

3 жыл бұрын

Me too The sad truth is that Joseph did this so long ago that Abraham Lincoln was still alive. The church continued to hide Joseph's actions since Abraham Lincoln's time until Joseph was exposed by the internet! That's a very long time indeed. Some are wondering why it took so long for the church to tell the truth. This video doesn't explain why the church misled it's members for so long

Thank you, this is all wonderful!

God bless you.

Would Joseph have been standing as a proxy for the women's male relative(s) and sealed for Family Genealogy purposes .. ?

@brettmajeske3525

3 жыл бұрын

I am not saying that never happened, but is not what this presentation is about.

He doesn't like being called an apologist; dude, everything you're spouting is apologetics! Research, and learn, then apologize for this completely erroneous statement!

@libertynindependence

5 жыл бұрын

Apologetics is not apologizing.

@SRLowther

5 жыл бұрын

Deicida Sum did not say apologetics was apologizing. Reread what was stated.

@ResidentKlinton

5 жыл бұрын

It may be that he doesn't like the term. Many hold the term "apologist" to be a misnomer. That is to say, we don't view "apologist" as apologizing, so we avoid the term to prevent confusion. We prefer something like mediator. We try to help people view things in a more correct way without any apologies for how things are or were.

A person must not only live the law of chastity outwardly, they must also live the law of chastity from their spirit to qualify for a celestial body, and eternal marriage. Only God and that person knows if they are living the law of chastity from their spirit. Only God knows if a person lusts to commit adultery

24:44 I feel like it was just a repeat of him "Fearing man (or women, in this case) more than God" the same way with Martin Harris.

Both Pres Nelson and Pres Oaks beileve they will have both wives in the celestial kingdom

@riccardorome

5 жыл бұрын

coalhouse1981 have they stated that this is what they believe?

@coalhouse1981

5 жыл бұрын

@@riccardorome this a logical conclusion one can draw from the doctrine... if I cared enough to search their talks I'm sure I could find them referring to both their wives as their eternal companions

@heatherluna5075

4 жыл бұрын

Men find joy in their wives and women find joy in their children.

@ZDLsunny

4 жыл бұрын

coalhouse1981 some of missionaries told me that that they believe there is polygamy in the highest kingdom too.

@coalhouse1981

4 жыл бұрын

@@ZDLsunny of course they do thats dotrince

I'm not gonna lie, the more I listened.. the more concerned I was. However, when he said that Emma still wanted to be with Joseph and that "if she could forgive him, we can too" I felt the spirit tell me that was true

@stardustgirl2904

Жыл бұрын

I think 🤔 we all have our own way of looking at things. Polygamy isn't something I ever really worried about, simply because as a Christian that reads the Bible, you still have to deal with the fact that polygamy happened in the Bible! So I believe we will have a better understanding of all the weird things they did in ancient times,at some point, in the Bible and with Joseph Smith.

@ryanbundy5653

Жыл бұрын

I don't believe Joseph smith needs any forgiveness on this matter. not from Ema, not from us. He did as he was commanded to do. So for this he will be rewarded. If he made any mistakes as he was learning to obey the commandment, for that he can be forgiven, but for polygamy in its self he acted in righteousness.

@Maryel_R_R_Palmer

Жыл бұрын

No need for concern. Watch Rob Fotheringham’s take on polygamy. I promise it is worth it.

@Maryel_R_R_Palmer

Жыл бұрын

@@danielclingen34 it’s not a concern because it didn’t happen. Have a look into the suggestion I made when you have the chance.

Did they actually answer the question that is the video's title?

@alexbednar4688

4 жыл бұрын

They didn't explicitly say it, but the answer to that question is that it is still ordained of God through D&C section 132, but we just don't practice it right now on earth.

@Dawnyy

3 жыл бұрын

@@alexbednar4688 Joseph smith wrote his own doctrine to go with whatever he was doing, the Bible teaches polygamy is unlawful

@lafeharris8471

3 жыл бұрын

@@Dawnyy strange, the Bible has several leaders who pracitced polygamy. Can't have it both ways.

I thought some of this was because of confusion about how sealings work. That many thought they needed to be sealed to a righteous person like an apostle or prophet & later a prophet said that the church would no longer do sealings along those lines, but that you were to be sealed to your parents & grandparents rather than to a righteous church leader.

Great move to being more transparent but still a long way to go. Would have been nice to have someone else on the panel. Maybe Lindsey Hansen Park?

Brian, are you saying anyone over 11 is not considered pedophilia?

@DannyAGray

5 жыл бұрын

I think you have to look at the context.

@MichaelEllisYT

5 жыл бұрын

The term is ephebophilia. However, biologically speaking humans are adults upon entering puberty. Though, our legal system disagrees with biology.

@smdh99

5 жыл бұрын

@@MichaelEllisYT They disagree because a child's brain isn't fully developed til age 25. The rational part. Just because their bodies go thru puberty doesn't make them mature enough to mentally handle sex at such a young age.

@DannyAGray

5 жыл бұрын

@@smdh99 and yet, medical science didn't consider when a brain was fully matured in the early 1800s. They had other concerns like polio, Scarlett fever, war, battles against the natives - ya know, important stuff. Additionally, I think it's obvious that people in those days reached a far grander level of maturity much younger than we do today. They had to be more mature, more responsible, more capable. So to argue the idea of mental maturity it brain development, based on tests performed on today's brains and comparing them to a lack of information 180 years ago just seems like a far reach.

@MichaelEllisYT

5 жыл бұрын

@@smdh99 So a 24 year old can't handle sex? If you look at any other creature on planet earth adulthood is classified as being capable of reproduction.

What I'm getting an impressions of "safety net" when hearing this.

One of my friends has an ancestor who was sealed to Joseph, but also had a non-member husband. My friend said that after her husband died, she was then llater sealed to that husband by proxy in one of the temples, decades later. My belief is that the whole concept was new (of course) and they were still learning .These faithful women wanted to follow the revelations and wanted to go to the Celestial Kingddom, despite their husbands being a hindrance to that. Perhaps Joseph was a placeholder for that position --and one couldn't find a better placeholder at the time. They wanted to be sealed to someone . And then later learned about proxy work for the dead, and that they could actually be sealed to their husbands after all and be with them for eternity. I hope this makes sense. That's my understanding. She was only sealed to Joseph in name only at that time. And didn't have any marital relations with him.