You on team Cooper and Wilkins, or team Redick?… or neither??

@SportsSteadyTv

Жыл бұрын

Cooper and Wilkins

@menace244

Жыл бұрын

Cooper and Wilkins. JJ has been buggin on older players eras. And while sometimes he has a good take. They’re usually extremely biased and just plain untrue.

@overlordupchuck

Жыл бұрын

jj walked back his take on them being plumbers etc. He said it was a flared up moment on ESPN.

@legendarywiimaster

Жыл бұрын

JJ Redick

@MGPCycling

Жыл бұрын

team cooper/wilkins for sure

Jonny wants ALL the smoke with that last line

@bigsav1984

Жыл бұрын

I literally said “oh shit” out loud at that line, now everyone is looking at me

@jasonvargas4798

Жыл бұрын

Man that one hurt me! He held back no punches.

@shaft9000

Жыл бұрын

Few things would be more interesting (and refreshing) than if the NBA deleted the 3-line entirely. Just...POOF! Why not simply just play _basketball_ again? Like, really people - What the fuck is wrong with us to find ourselves in such a ridiculous situation as the current league is in?

@alexnather7614

Жыл бұрын

@@shaft9000 3 point line is great, NBA needs to bring back hand checking and get rid of 3 in the key rule

@blazeking1972

Жыл бұрын

@@shaft9000 what r u 95? u wanna see the crowd go crazy when bob cousy dribbles with his left hand and makes a shot thats not a layup again?

Bruh, Reddick called Kareem, who is a 6x MVP 6x World Champion 19x All-Star 15x All-NBA 12x All-Defensive And Hall of Famer A "one trick pony" 🤡

9:51 that last line was BRUTAL💀

@ariesnation4895

Жыл бұрын

Fr😊

@alfregno

Жыл бұрын

Brutally honest

@RetroNBA42

Жыл бұрын

Like Kendrick Perkins calling him Elvis Presley

@nachomagallanico

Жыл бұрын

theta was real big FU disguised

@KaineTremaine

Жыл бұрын

It's time to take the gloves off vs these "Modern Era" idiots who are ruining the NBA product and disrespecting the game's history.

Bird's 3-pt shooting numbers _relative to the league at his time_ were fantastic.

@soldatwalmart9515

Жыл бұрын

doesn’t make him top five

@ORagnar

Жыл бұрын

@@soldatwalmart9515 -- He had a higher 3 point shooting percentage in the playoffs than Steph Curry. 2.o0

@soldatwalmart9515

Жыл бұрын

@@ORagnar still doesn’t make him top five, if curry was as open as bird all the time he’d shoot 50 percent from three every year. what year are you talking about anyway?

@ORagnar

Жыл бұрын

@@soldatwalmart9515 "still doesn’t make him top five, if curry was as open as bird all the time he’d shoot 50 percent from three every year. what year are you talking about anyway?" Did you listen to the video? It's one of the points he made in it. "As open as Bird"... where to you get the idea Bird was open? Bird played in a more physical era when you could hand check players. It's the reverse, if anything. 2.o0

@lakesideraptor321

Жыл бұрын

@@ORagnar that’s not true! Steph shoots 40% from 3 in the playoffs and bird shot 32%. Don’t lie

That last comment was a knockout punch 😭😭🤣🤣🤣

By saying Larry was not a volume 3 point shooter he is literally holding the time he played in against him. When the 3point line was introduced in his rookie year and never saw it in high school or college, had to learn on the fly. Because it was new the whole league was not high volume

@KaineTremaine

Жыл бұрын

Bird hitting 42% in the NBA Finals is a mic drop

@isaiahjamal6024

Жыл бұрын

@@KaineTremaine bro took 1.5 3’s a game like cmon man stop riding him.

@isaiahjamal6024

Жыл бұрын

Like ofc his percentage is gonna be high he barely took any threes, Larry bird barely even coughed around 3 3’s attempted. Yes I know it’s due to era but comparing someone from a completely different era in which one takes more threes than the other (dame for example) and saying, we’ll Larry is a better shooter because his 3pt percentage is higher when he barely took any threes is a unfair comparison and biased because Damian lillard takes more threes and is BARELY under bird in comparison to 3pt %.

@KaineTremaine

Жыл бұрын

@Isaiah Jamal You saw those clips. Bird wanted that smoke at all times. He manned up, dished it and took it. - Prime Bird would win 3 straight MVPs (again) in today's NBA

@aaronlampkin284

Жыл бұрын

@@isaiahjamal6024Yea cause he was impacting other stats than just chunking up half court 3’s. That volume shooter shit is stupid due to most player jacking up bad shots these days so the efficiency starts to lack.

You can not really compare Birds era with this era. Like you indeed remarked In Birds era, the rules were different. No doubt that Bird was a really great shooter. (Including 3 pointers). He was unguardable, also a very high IQ player, making his team better. He had that killer instinct. Unbelievable winners mentality and he made unbelievable winning shots at the buzzer. I watched him play and YES, he's one of the greats. Bird is also known for his work ethic at practice. Hours and hours, after his teammates were already home. Constantly improving. That's the thing with the GREATS, no matter in which era, they would play, they would be GREAT.

@F76CC

Жыл бұрын

They weren’t guarding players at the 3pt line back then anywhere near the way they are today.

@realniggashit3

Жыл бұрын

​@@F76CC Lol give me a break. No one is playing defense today. Reggie Miller is an all-time great 3 point shooter, but his career percentage is only 39.5%. Heck, Ray Allen's career 3 point percentage is only 40%. Stephen Curry is at 42.8% despite significantly higher volume and often having to create his own shot (spot up is easier, especially corner) because defense these days is a joke. No hand-checking is a big part of it. Players being soft and all friendly with each other trying to clout chase and make money is another part. The only reason overall 3 point percentage isn't drastically higher now is because big men with no business shooting threes are doing it too and bringing down the league-wide percentage.

@rozy_senpai8500

Жыл бұрын

@@realniggashit3 nO oNe Is PlAyInG dEfEnCe tOdAy....what?💀

@nicksamp515

Жыл бұрын

​@@realniggashit3 What?? Nobody? You call dirty and lazy plays as "Defense"? Sure the light calls in today's game makes it HARDER to play defense, but defense today is more technical than back then since you need to anticipate the opposing player's moves, fakes, timing their passes and shots without doing to much contact. Back then, you can just camp down low and just whack the other player that would drive to the basket or just place your arm to your opponent and basically live like that. Lazy Defense. Sure it's effective, but there's no real skill needed to do that so how is that better "Defense"? Even G-league players today can be DPOY candidates each year back then if they would be allowed to play that kind of defense. You can even see in some highlights of past superstars that a SIMPLE fake and cross overs makes their defenders lose their minds and sh1t their pants completely. And back then no one had the RANGE and as skilled as steph, klay, dame, kyrie to create their own shots outside and make it aside from very few players and superstars.

@rubyrogers239

Жыл бұрын

We aren't talking about what he would be in today's game, we are saying what it was. He was not a top 3 or 5 3 point shooter. I'd take Dame, Steph, Ray, Reggie, and Klay over him which I'd 5 just off the top of my head.

That last sentence. Ouch! NBA legends also coming to the defense of Larry Legend.

Bird invented the 50/40/90 JJ needs to return to basic maths.

@geraldorivera8056

Жыл бұрын

Jj isn’t wrong

That's making the same argument as someone saying Joe Montana isn't one of the best quarterbacks in NFL history, because he never threw for 4000 yards in a season. Context matters, and the era in which a player played is very important context.

@fortynights1513

Жыл бұрын

From what I can tell, NFL fans are arguably the worst at acknowledging the impact of rule changes. Straight up compare raw totals and you’ll inevitably sell older players short. Not that you can’t argue that contemporary players are the best, but context is important when comparing players in any sport.

@nicolasfierro2143

4 ай бұрын

saying bird is a top 5 shooter is like saying bob cousey is a top 5 ball handler

When Bird actually started shooting more than 1 per game, he shot over 40%. Had he taken 15 threes on the nights he was hot like they do now, he would have likely been mid 40s% those seasons. If he grew up shooting threes all the time like guys now, god only knows how good he would have been.

@chrispalmer1255

Жыл бұрын

Valid. So, this shows that he *could have been a great 3 pointer shooter BUT facts are that he was *not a great 3 point shooter.

@lukekiefer5964

Жыл бұрын

@@chrispalmer1255 Wow you are dense

@ayneherman7150

Жыл бұрын

@@chrispalmer1255 It's just that he's not one of the 5 greatest 3-pt shooters of all time. JJ has a point there.

@harleyinglis1357

Жыл бұрын

When your argument is would have could have you need to stfu

@letmegetuhhh3959

Жыл бұрын

He ain't shooting no mid 40s from deep lmao that super elite territory.

I can't remember if it was your channel or someone else, but I heard that Larry Bird's 3P% in one of the years he played was the biggest gap between the second best shooter that there has ever been in NBA history. There is no way you disregard that and dump on his shooting prowess.

@soldatwalmart9515

Жыл бұрын

doesn’t make him a top 5 shooter ever, that just makes the people he was competing with bad at shooting three’s comparatively.

@phillipgorokhovich7146

Жыл бұрын

@@urbanlegendsandtrivia2023 how are you going to compare Bird (shot 32 percent from 3 for his playoff career) to Steph Curry lmao😂

@KiddsWorldEntertainment

Жыл бұрын

That means absolutely nothing

@officialconch

Жыл бұрын

@@soldatwalmart9515 I think you’re forgetting the part where it was more physical.

@soldatwalmart9515

Жыл бұрын

@@officialconch you’re trolling

Johnny Arnett is the most generational non biased content creator I know, he gives props to both past and present. Generationsa and is very unbiased on the generational criticisms. Unlike other content creators who are too much modern or past biased.

@Homer-OJ-Simpson

Жыл бұрын

In terms of content creators, it's dominated by extreme recency bias. Especially top youtuber like Jimmy is Highroller. In terms of overall such as current and former players and general public, it's a bit of both. Not many have a more non bias opinion.

@kingdeedee

Жыл бұрын

Non-biased people don't exist. Non-biased analysis doesn't exist. You just think he's non-biased because you agree with him, but that just means you're both biased in a similar way. Even Jonny in a lot of his videos admits to being biased. Nothing wrong with it, and it doesn't mean he's wrong either

@jeromej5815

Жыл бұрын

Check basketballtimemachine. Then you guys will see a very bias with past era

@Homer-OJ-Simpson

Жыл бұрын

@@kingdeedee Non biased doesn't exist but when people say that, they mean minimally bias. That should be understood. Agreeing with someone isn't also doesn't automatically make one think they are non biased. For example, I consume a lot of news that's not sports related. I am left of center but yet I don't generally consume left of center biased news. I might agree with those left of center biased news the most but I'm also aware they are not non-biased. Arnett of course has biases like everyone but he fits the 'minimally biased' when you compare him to others. Same for Thinking Basketball -- minimally bias. But Jimmy Highroller is extremely recency bias and has many other biases that are extremly evident.

@coolwitzayy

Жыл бұрын

non biased? 😂 he loves the older eras compared to the newer ones it’s so obvious in all of his content that isn’t the basketball fun facts

I would like to add this context however, after watching a lot of old Celtics games, the threes Larry Bird did take were usually open or with a light contest and shot at that 37.6 percent clip, where as when you compared it with dames 37.3 percent clip after watching plenty of blazers games the level of difficulty of the threes Lillard takes is on average a fairly more difficult than the ones Larry Bird took. I would say compared to their own era they are on similar terms of 3pt greatness, however although Larry Bird is an all time great shooter, comparing shooters then to now isn't fair because of how the game is played. it's akin to how post scoring was much more difficult back in the 90s due to the spacing and rules where on Average the all time great post scorers would be better post scorers than they are today, all due to era and what was considered important. I love Larry Bird but strictly on ability to make 3s I wouldn't have him top 20 all time as a 3pt shooter but as a general shooter he'd easily be top 5-10

@Slickgary007

Жыл бұрын

Ok and? Dame grew up shooting threes that wasn’t really something players did at all when Larry was playing him shooting that % for the era is amazing I guarantee the league average at that point was barely at 30% even if that. Quit trying to discredit nba legends just because of the era they played. If bird played now he’d probably would have shot over 40% having practiced threes his entire career. He’d be a legend regardless of the era he played in I think that’s what these clowns don’t understand. Really weird JJ likes to act like he’s pro players yet constantly shits on the older players who brought the nba where it is today dude has zero respect for the older guys and deserves criticism for his stupid takes fuck him

@patrickolsen2383

Жыл бұрын

@@Slickgary007 Also on the other point of JJ not respecting previous eras, players from any era are usually going to shit on other players if other era's it goes both ways, it's a sad part of hearing from past/present NBA players and it comes from their big egos which almost all NBA players past and present have. it's frustrating yes but sadly a part of most professional sports

@Refreshment01

Жыл бұрын

Ok, but then someone that likes controversy like JJ could say: Lilard is top 5 3 poin shooter but leave him out of top 5 all time overall shooter because this era has an easier time making shots closer to the paint. Then what about scoring in general? I' ve seen continuation plays & soft fouls that wouldnt be called in the 80s, for example.

@patrickolsen2383

Жыл бұрын

well that's why it's up to us fans to sense that's controversy for what it is. what's considered a foul now is lighter than previous it's also been purposefully done to rid the league of the toxic hard foul defence a team like the bad boy pistons brought. as long as us fans respect players past and present being honest with ourselves about the correlation to certain skill levels of certain parts of the game to the era I think it's alright to realise due to circumstances like era to admit that players from the 80s where long range shooting wasn't very valued weren't as good as a time like now where it is valued. it goes both ways and recognising that is part of the game I reckon.

@javigar133

Жыл бұрын

Dude, get your figures straight first before open that Big about. Bird was 37% for his career, but he averaged 50 40 90 for a 4 year straight whilst being the 3p icon. Just shut up kiddo

The game was more physical when it comes to “fouling” not actual defense. Larry Bird was one of the greatest shooters of all time there are just a bunch of players who make more, take more and the shots are more difficult (3 pointers).The other thing people never consider is just how weak closeouts on three point shooters were back in the day. Most defenders would close out slow and not even leave their feet. Nowadays if you don’t pump fake a closing out defender your shot might end up in the stands.

@martinbuhrer3893

Жыл бұрын

I'll agree that closeouts were not as emphatic as they are nowadays. But the thing is: working to get that open three in the first place was way harder. Because 1. set plays that ended in a three were not as developed and numerous as they are today. 2. defenders actually gave a shit and would stick to their man more reliably - I don't even fault the players here. But in today's NBA, the rules just cripple defenders so much. Why would you give any effort at all if they're just gonna hang a foul on you for defending like you mean it? 3. there was no zone defense. An ineffective, lazy zone (see #2 for why that is) is way more prone to open three pointers.

Yeah that last line that was the finishing blow right there

I remember Reggie miller praised Larry bird’s 3 points shooting during pacers practice, also during Reggie’s prime, he also pointed out that Larry is a great three point shooter. Until this day Reggie is still one of the best three point shooter of all time, with this logic, Larry is still a great shooter in the history of basketball. In my opinion, if Larry, reggie and Ray allen play in this era, they would shine even more

@emmanuelobodozie713

Жыл бұрын

bird wasn't being guarded at the line tho lol. Now they get guarded at the 3pt line. His highest was 3.1 per game on 40% 3.1 isn't nothing in this era

@realniggashit3

Жыл бұрын

Exactly! Even Wesley Person and Dennis Scott would be a perennial all-star in this era, Peja Stojakovic would be a MVP candidate, and Dirk would've broken Kareem's all-time points record. Heck, Glen Rice, Allan Houston, Michael Redd, Mark Price, and Dale Ellis would have legitimate Hall of Fame case if they played in today's era. There's a reason someone as mediocre as Redick himself was putting up career numbers at age-35. Redick was a guy who started only 19 games combined his first 5 seasons and barely got off the bench his first 3 seasons despite spending 4 years in college. Given that Redick was able to put up 18 PPG in 2019 at age-35 because the league got soft, rando like Wesley Person, Walt Williams, or Hubert Davis would easily put up 25 PPG in this era because they were better than Redick during their 20s.

That dagger ending line though.

I like how JJ said bird isn’t a top5 three point shooter and he just agrees with him by saying he’s a top 15 three point shooter how are you trying to argue

Jonny with the savage mic drop. Well done.

With this specific take, I think JJ is mainly talking about the physicality for shooters and he has a point. Most of the physicality, in the 80's, was under the basket. Because the 3 ball wasn't emphasized, u weren't likely to see ppl defending it. Now a days, there is a fair amount of physicality on the perimeter relative to the 80s.

@D22_T

Жыл бұрын

You can argue this but what about him saying bird isn’t one of the greatest 3 point shooter of all time ?

@bluesnem8396

Жыл бұрын

@@D22_T he wasn’t

@D22_T

Жыл бұрын

@@bluesnem8396 yes he was

@goodfellabeats

Жыл бұрын

That's absolutely incorrect, sorry. The physicality on the perimeter came by way of a hand checking. You could put one hand on a player's hip while he was dribbling, driving, or moving to direct his trajectory. You can't do that now so players can face their defenders and use quickness to get past them. Before, it was legal to put your hand on the hip of a guy that tried to blow by you. That is why they got rid of it in 2004. It gave the defender a huge advantage.

@stevanchez1122

Жыл бұрын

Do you mean off the ball? On-ball perimeter defense is still less physical than the 80's and 90's. Defenders don't get into the body of a ballhandler like they used to, they can't hand-check, and, because of the 'landing-zone' rule, they can't be in a shooter's space when they rise up. Now, if you mean off-ball, where they hold and bump 'roaming' shooters, then I'd have to agree because they didn't really strategize for perimeter shooters like they do now. But those type of perimeter shooters were also very rare in the 80's and early 90's. I'd also point out, that when superstar 'roaming' perimeter player like Miller and Allen started having success, defenses did attack them off-ball.

JJ works for ESPN. that says all. like perkins, like pierce.

This is why Jonny is my favorite nba KZreadr. All the other KZreadrs are like 18 year olds that think everyone before 2010 was a bum 😂😂

@aaronlampkin284

Жыл бұрын

Shit be pissing me off.

You’ll never hear all time great superstars say anything like that. Just the role players and lower tier allstars. You’ll never hear curry, ray Allen, dame or anyone else say anything like this.

@uhhh_cheese

Жыл бұрын

Cause they to big to deal with controversy and that's what comes with facts

@TheIcemanthomas

Жыл бұрын

@@uhhh_cheese define facts

Nah Jonny you buggin with this one. JJ's arguement was that defenses today are more physical on 3pt shooters than they were in the 80s and that is factually correct. Nobody shot them that much, so most 3pt attempts were open shots. Defenses back then never considered the 3pt shot a legitimate threat and offenses never rellied on taking many 3s at all back then. If Bird was a top 3 3pt shooter of all time as Mad dog says, defenses would have tried to run him off the 3pt line and boston would have let him shoot more of them. But Bird did most of his damage from mid range, where he earned his reputation as a lights out shooter. Nobody is argueing that the current nba is more physical than the 80s in general, but specifically when it comes to defending 3pt shooters todays defenses are way more physical.

@chrispolo25

Жыл бұрын

I see no defense at all, its way too GAE, NBA is soft nowadays thats a 💯 scientific proven fact.

@brendawalters3728

Жыл бұрын

wrong you are not considering that players had to guard Bird differently because of his ability to pass and play with his offhand. The only stat Bird was interested in was team wins, it would be a better NBA if today's players cared as much as winning as they did their own stats. oh and lets not forget how many millions of dollars they make to rest. JJ 's comments about Bird and Cousy for that matter are asinine at best. Bird would kick butt in todays weak game.

@sportsgamer2342

Жыл бұрын

@@chrispolo25 lol the scoring average isn’t that much different than the 80’s. If you’re saying that then they didn’t play defense in the 80’s either

@chrispolo25

Жыл бұрын

@@sportsgamer2342 modern NBA can’t play no defense because they’re SOFT.

@illicitburn9386

Жыл бұрын

​@@brendawalters3728 That's doesn't answer anything

BIRD averaged a double double for his career in an era with real headhunters in the frontcourt.

Basketball discourse is a prime example of how statistics _alone_ should never be relied upon to hold up an argument, because they can be twisted to fit the narrative of whoever's presenting them.

Bird was the OG of 3 pts shooting in the nba .... one of the first nba superstar that include 3 pts in his offensive game

Just found this channel, and the way you break down arguments is great. Subbed

Top 10 in 3 point shotting. Top 1 in Hard-ass-fuck-impossible-3 points made with 3 guys in your face to win the game while trash talking the entire team and coach. That´s Larry.

@ramyhany4309

Жыл бұрын

Larry Bird shot 32% from 3 in the playoffs on 1.5 attempts per game.

@sethcarter2586

Жыл бұрын

Old heads love to lie like we can’t look this shit up lol

@benjaminsymon5165

Жыл бұрын

How many deep 3s did he make in his career?

@petersonofleo11

Жыл бұрын

@@sethcarter2586 yep players used to play without shoes with nails on the floor while opposing teams could hit you with a steel chair. These zoomers won't be able to survive in that era.

@shaft9000

Жыл бұрын

@@ramyhany4309 nobody gave a f about 3s in the '80s until the 3-point contest (that Bird won yr after yr) And nobody showed him how to score off the 3, _he had to invent it_ without the luxury of any predecessors to study, yo Stats don't lie - but they don't tell the truth, either. R E S P E C T the innovators :)

7:20 The NCAA didn't implement the 3pt line until 1986. All this does is help the case of players like Reggie Miller, Mark Price and Dale Ellis since they ALSO didn't practice the 3 until they got to the NBA (or, in an ideal world, their LAST year in college - judging by their 1st year shooting % they didn't) The ONLY way you can put Bird over Price and Miller is by weighing his overall greatness in the equation, which isn't the discussion

Why is nobody mentioning the line was 23 feet 9 inches and was moved in to 22 feet? That'll have a huge affect on your percentage

@stevanchez1122

Жыл бұрын

Because that was from 1994-1996. Bird retired in 1992. So, literally has nothing to do with Bird.

@kingdeedee

Жыл бұрын

Pretty sure that was in 1994 or 95, after Bird retired

@ 6:46 Larry shot 37.6% on 1.9 attempts per game while dame shoots 37.3% on 8.3 attempts per game. That’s an impact of 2.14 pts/game for Larry and 9.29 for Dame. The average nba score in the 80’s was 109.3 while it was 110.6 in 2022 meaning Dame’s 3 point shooting impacts the average NBA game much more than Larry’s did in the 80s. JJs point here is that both efficiency and volume must be considered when evaluating a players 3 ball.

@davidmartinez52420

Жыл бұрын

At his peak, Larry was averaging over 40% from 3 on around 3 attempts per game. It's quite interesting when you look at his season to season numbers and notice that his higher percentage years also came when he shot at a higher volume. Low volume = low 3pt%, high(for the time) volume = higher 3pt%. It should also be considered that Bird didn't have a 3pt line until he got into the NBA and yet still became a great 3pt shooter anyway

@gabeisa1432

Жыл бұрын

@@davidmartinez52420 yeah I think the evidence is there to say that if Larry grew up/played in todays era his numbers would look much better compared to all time 3pt shooters like Steph or Ray. But without that speculation, JJ’s got a point that other modern shooters have a case to be higher on an all time list. Sadly, I think he put his foot in his mouth when he said “Larry bird is not one of the best 3pt shooters ever” when he was referring to the “top 3” that Mad dog initially claimed which is a way less disrespectful take.

@davidmartinez52420

Жыл бұрын

@@gabeisa1432 For me, there's a different between "greatest" and "best". You can probably argue a number of people may be better 3pt shooters than Bird, but that doesn't automatically make them greater.....if that makes any sense. Like, there's lots of good 3pt shooters since Bird retired but I'd bet more people would rather have Bird shoot it in clutch situations over a number of those guys that may be better shooters.

Going for the jugular with that last line goddamn lol

Dude, you should be the one on ESPN

You just dismissed Reddick with that last line Jonny! Missed me some 80's and 90's basketball!

@shazazy4137

Жыл бұрын

Tbf Reddick played in the NBA so he can have opinions about superstars. Jonny on the other hand is a content creator who probably never touch a basketball all his life lmao.

@ktapreswreckd921v9

Жыл бұрын

@@shazazy4137 Interesting 🤔 take.

@soloistdeve

Жыл бұрын

​@@shazazy4137 Yeah, he played in the NBA at the only era he could have played. He was a 3pt line camper without a lick of defense, dribbling skills, or any other skill that basketball requires. If he played in 80's he would be a bench warmer.

@shazazy4137

Жыл бұрын

@@soloistdeve This era is the most skilled era lmao. In '80s NBA players do not know how to even do reverse layup, euro step or even dribble the ball with their weak hands 😅. That's why you see old heads amazed by Dr.J layups when in today's league, guys like Jalen Green, Ant, Kyrie and etc do it all the time. Also, they would look at JJ Reddick as Jesus the way he can shoot the ball lmao 🤣.

@soloistdeve

Жыл бұрын

@@shazazy4137 More skilled era lol Argument of weaklings. They gave you that hope now didn't they? They look more skilled "in the regular season" because no one is allowed to touch anybody. How many players can make those moves in playoffs other than the best ones? You, little boys, are probably never gonna learn what physical pain is, sitting on your soft ass playing video games. You think pain is a subjective thing or something. Reddick couldn't move on the court with hand checking and with that little boy size. Oh, man.

You are correct that not every single game in the 80s was a bloodbath. But... most playoff games in the 80s between the Celtics, Lakers, Pistons, Bulls, and Sixers was a bloodbath.

some people love to compare eras 1 for 1, like JJ when he said that bob cousy was bad because he shot below 40%, which was decent at that time yet they say you know nothing about ball, when you show them Wilts stats you have to compare players to their era obviously it's quite a bit easier to dominate the game, when their is less knowledge about it, but you still have to give them credit keeping that in mind larry bird is a top 5 three point shooter ever imo

@kozmeetorez

Жыл бұрын

Easier to dominate? Mfrs literally walking in the hole nowadays.

@Masticore_

Жыл бұрын

@@kozmeetorez that's true, but that goes for everyone, it 's very tough to get the edge based on training, knowledge, strength and so on Harder than it was back in the day atleast

That last take... damnn

The issue is that JJ was comparing how Bird gets a shot off vs the likes of Curry , thompson and Dame. He was basically saying that 3pts shots were easier to get back then which is a flawed argument not only relative to eras but also positions. I don't expect Bird to run around screens like Curry to get a shot off, his frame and craftiness alone makes it possible to shoot in the face of his defender most of the time if needed.

@jubjubhenry5612

Жыл бұрын

Sure but Larry was extremely active off-ball. He and Steph and actually very similar that way.

@brianholleran6340

Жыл бұрын

except he did.. obviously not like curry as it wasnt the ENTIRE game plan like today but he absolutely ran all over to get open 3s and was quite often doubled at the 3 which overall with the spacing today doesnt happen unless you are a curry.

@halfpricesushi

Жыл бұрын

JJ is both right and wrong on this one. Of course you see bird getting that open shot. As coop pointed out, the alternative was even worse. Let’s say you got into bird’s grill on the outside… Bird would either pump fake you and get you off your feet or just dribble by you and make you look stupid. All while rubbing it in and talking smack. Coop also talked about how Bird could take a guy like Kareem and make him a defensive non-factor with a single play. JJ should know better as the “pro” on that panel. Last I saw, he was doubling down on this take. He needs to be called out everytime he’s this dumb.

@javigar133

Жыл бұрын

Bird needed no screens rubbish holes, he would just faced Up and bury It on your face, after telling you how lol.

@isaiahjamal6024

Жыл бұрын

You can make the argument yuta watanabe is a better 3 point shooter than Larry bird , and if you don’t think so then you just don’t watch basketball

JJ has said the flagrant fouls were harder, but the general physicality was not that different. He's right

@IAmNotYourBuddy

Жыл бұрын

Yeah I don't see anything wrong with what JJ said. It wasn't disrespectful imo.

@awesomereviews1561

Жыл бұрын

If you don’t have hand check defense, the game is less physical. So he is wrong. Try it yourself guys. You will see the difference right away.

@bondsgoat25

Жыл бұрын

@@awesomereviews1561 no-one hand checks on the 3pt line, which is what people like mad dog were trying to argue.

@jamiekelley4076

Жыл бұрын

To a degree he might be right but it is semantics at this point. He's arguing a point but ignoring the impact it has based on context. The league was more physical in that players were allowed to be more physical with each other. As that has been taken away and calls for traveling/carrying were reduced players simply have more open shots/space to work with and the 3pt shot has become more valuable because of it. Bird was an amazing shooter and would probably still be an amazing shooter today. Scoring similarly to the top 3pt shooters of today.

@TheMrMasterChief12

Жыл бұрын

In my opinion the toughest era was the 2000s

Larry's 3pt stat is great for his time since there's nothing pushing it to the limit like what Curry did to the league.

@nicolasfierro2143

4 ай бұрын

by your logic bob cousey is a top three ball handler of all time

Hot Take: Kyle Korver should be in the top 5 shooters of all time -43% from 3 in his entire career -made a total of 2450 3s -Only player to shoot 53% from the 3-point logo in one season -Most fundamental form in the league

JJ's point about physicality was that Curry experiences more at the 3pt line then Bird did, which is completely true because of how the modern defense values guarding against 3s. Also it may be "unfair" to Bird to judge his volume because of his era, but isnt it even more unfair to modern players to rank him as a better 3pt shooter than someone like who is taking and making more 3s on better efficiency? It's not a knock on Bird that he didnt shoot more, but if we're not going to judge him based on his actual volume and percentages (which in the playoffs was 1.5 attempts on 32%) then what DOES count?

@MikeTheNBAGuy

Жыл бұрын

@Night rider Gotta use insults cause you don't have any actual argument lmao

@jamiekelley4076

Жыл бұрын

Bird still experienced more physicality because players were simply allowed to be more physical even away from the basket. That being said your second point hits the nail right on the head of the issue here. In a society fanatic about lists and tiers how do you reconcile players from older eras that we know would be lethal 3pt shooters today but don't have the stats to back it up because that shot was less valuable to take back in the older eras. How do we pay respects to both when we know today Bird would be a great 3pt shooter but he didn't get the chance to do so vs players that get to take advantage of an easier 3pt shooting era? There isn't a great mathematical way to do it.

@MikeTheNBAGuy

Жыл бұрын

@@jamiekelley4076 Exactly, which is why I believe that while it is unfortunate for older players, the best thing to do is still ACKNOWLEDGE how good at shooting Bird would be today while not actually ranking him based on what his hypothetical stats would be if he was drafted in 2010. And Bird got more physicality overall but on 3s, how often was he actually shooting them while being closely guarded. Curry is taking most of his contested, running around screens, etc while Larry, from what I've seen, was mostly shooting open catch-n-shoots and wasnt someone who took many contested 3s, much less ones through contact.

@Refreshment01

Жыл бұрын

No. JJ physicality point is in all aspects of the game. Its a very common debate of him. Only people standing up for him in this discussion make the distinction.

@MikeTheNBAGuy

Жыл бұрын

@@Refreshment01 What he believes about the game as a whole may be another argument, but in this specific situation he explicitly said the defense on 3pt shots. Only someone siding against him is going to take what he said out of context and try to twist it

I have been saying this for a while interior defence was much better and much Harder in the 80s and 90s but perimeter defence was not that much different. It was easier to guard back then due to the hand checking rule but physically most of the flagerent fouls was due to big men when you drove to the basket.

@papadoc331

Жыл бұрын

But forget the flagarants there werent even 1 per game. If you actually watch the highlights of someone like mj he was getting free runs to tue basket and dunoing on dudes or just finaihing over a big man whoa just standing there over and over again. Even against the psitons you cant watch his full highlights vs the pistons and say that rough defense or any different from today without lying to anyone and to yourself.

@ogmusik2549

Жыл бұрын

Watch Damian lillard push off defenders and carry the ball every possession. The nba has to create stars to generate money. There are only a few real stars today most of them can't play by the real basketball rules

@papadoc331

Жыл бұрын

@@ogmusik2549 o yes they can. They dribble vetter then anyone ever because he doesent carry every possetion and thoose push offs have always happened remember mjs shot in utah?

@ogmusik2549

Жыл бұрын

@papadoc no even watches the nba everyone did in the 90s. If its supposedly better where are all the fans no one cares anymore. LeBron breaking the record is more important than anything else this season. Kareem didn't care about records he just wanted to win games. Face it the league is slowly dying off people only watch highlights no one cares about the regular season and playoffs aren't much more exciting

@papadoc331

Жыл бұрын

@@ogmusik2549 no everyones already forgotten lebron winning the record. People are literally only talking sbout who gon win the championship and the playoffs have been absolutely LIT lately you cant deny it

Bird with todays rules would only be 2nd to Steph. While being the undisputed best player in the world. Brotha won 3 straight MVPS with killers like MJ, Barkley, Moses Malone, Hakeem, Isiah, Magic and Kareem competing in the same era. And no one said he didn't deserve it

That mic drop is a flagrant 2 today

6:13 JJ said he’s one of the greatest shooters ever but not top 5

@shaft9000

Жыл бұрын

This is where 'great' gets confused with 'best'. LeBron has perhaps the _greatest career_ of All-Time, but it does not make him a better champion than many other dudes. Bird was certainly one of the BEST shooters ever, and only an idiot would declare otherwise.

@Homer-OJ-Simpson

Жыл бұрын

JJ Redick already made a face at 1:48 just when it was brought up Bird is a great 3pt shooter. And the discussion was top 5 3pt shooters, not top 3. Though once he did say top 3 but the rest they were saying top 5. Seems like JJ accidentailly said top 3 because all other times he said top 5. And the problem is he said there is NO WAY you can argue that Bird belongs among the top 3pt shooters. There is an argument to be made which is why JJ is wrong. That doesn’t mean Bird is indeed top 5. And he literally says “(Bird) is not one of the greatest 3pt shooters ever”. That 100% is where JJ Redick is wrong. He is among the greatest 3pt shooters ever. Does it mean he’s top 5? Debatable. But he’s in the list of ‘greatest’.

JJ is one of the better mainstream NBA guys out there (which really says more about how low the bar is now), but I can't help but notice that (1) he gives WAY too much props to the current era (2) he doesn't know or care about the older guys unless they're relevant to the topic that he's discussing (3) he's almost exclusively an analytics guy which is why he prefers the modern era much more (4) he capes a lot for his former teammates, as we all know he's an Embiid guy and continually defends the NBA's equivalent of a Trust fund baby (Ben Simmons).

@sx2ap

Жыл бұрын

Because before Redick who ever truly defended the current era? Almost all the talking heads always gave more props to the previous eras. Which they do deserve but they are covering this current generation but continues to degrade them at the same time by saying they are soft among other things. I appreciate the fact that JJ stands up for this current era because if not him then who really will? It's ok to have a little opposition.

@timtresch4848

Жыл бұрын

@@sx2ap bill simmons was pretty far ahead of nba media journalists and not repeating all the same boomer nba talking points, he wasn't perfect but he was better then most, and Id gladly still take Simmoms over Reddick whose just sucking up to the modern players to keep his seat at the cool kid table with the players.

@jamesross9906

Жыл бұрын

Jj never saw Larry play a game was 2 years old

@cyrillesu

Жыл бұрын

@@jamesross9906 my dad was a kid when Bird and Magic played. Is that an excuse for me to not know who they are?

@rayburks7059

Жыл бұрын

Before reddick it was jus old heads crapping on the current Era then calling us soft when we responded he's simply the counter and he's more logical than most of media now to he actually knows how to debate the other mainstream people jus yell at each other and try to talk louder than the other

Wow that last line gave shivers to my spine. That was straight facts, real talk and 100 all in 1 lol.

@papadoc331

Жыл бұрын

Hell no it wasnt

@wongjoman1227

Жыл бұрын

@@papadoc331 what do you mean?

@papadoc331

Жыл бұрын

@@wongjoman1227 its a stupid thing to say

@PNL1992

Жыл бұрын

@@wongjoman1227 “you cant have a valid opinion on NBA basketball, because you never played it.”

@ghosttheripper8656

Жыл бұрын

🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️ am I gonna be the one to tell him most nba analysts aren’t nba super-stars🤦‍♂️ It’s a pretty stupid line Idk why y’all getting so hard over it

One of the best quotes every was when Jerry West told JJ he was the plumber of his generation😅

Saying bird has a higher 3PT% than curry and klay just lacks contexts, you're not even bringing up how many is he taking. Curry is attempting 11.3 3s and bird was attempting 1.5 3s so no. Klay is attempting 8.1 3s so just saying he has a higher 3PT% just lacks contexts.

@shaft9000

Жыл бұрын

_context_ ...not "contexts" ;O)

"then jj cannot give a valid opinion of nba superstars cause he never was one." Dam

@s1.m511

Жыл бұрын

But he also was a significantly better 3 point shooter than bird. So he can have takes on 3 point shooters.

@thewatcherowl6752

Жыл бұрын

@@s1.m511 how many j j average points vs larry average points?

@Homer-OJ-Simpson

Жыл бұрын

@@s1.m511 JJ could shoot so high % because he was not the star and thus would have lots of open 3’s compared to bird. The 3pt contest literally measures the ability to make a 3pt shot without having variables from in game 3’s such as taking more open 3’s due to not being primary scorer or the fact that desperation shots made up a bigger share of stars 3pt attempts during Bird era because they too fewer overall 3pt shots. Desperation are shots forced 3pt shots because time is running out on shot clock or quarter or it’s final seconds and team is down 3+ pts) do you want to know who has the 2 best number of shots made in a round? Craig Hodges by twice going 21/25. The same Hodges that lost twice to bird (bird won all 3 contest he entered). And who has the 3rd most? Mark price tied with a couple others at 20 made. The same Mark Price that lost to Bird. Hodges and price are both career 40%+ 3pt shooters and Hodges reached 49.1% In 87-88 season. Bird also beat Dale Ellis, another of the best 3pt shooters or all time. Ellis was career 40%+ and reached as high 47.8%. Also, despite only making 3 appearances in the contest, Bird is one of only two players to make 18 or more shots in a round. The other being Hodges that Bird beat twice. And Redick made two appearances in the contest. No wins and never made 18 shots. So it seems like on pure 3pt shooting ability, Bird was better than JJ Redici.

@s1.m511

Жыл бұрын

@@Homer-OJ-Simpson no bird had far far far more open 3s because it was the 80s and no one defended the 3 point line. Do you think Joe Harris, Kyrie, and Marco Benelli are better 3 point shooter than curry seeing as they all bet him in the 3 point contest. Or is it a very different in game when there's people gaurding you and your running around screens. You have never played any sort of sport if you think a 3 point contest is comparable to a real game.

@Homer-OJ-Simpson

Жыл бұрын

@@s1.m511 " no bird had far far far more open 3s" Well, we know that when he's open like a 3pt contest, he's among the best ever. And in the 80's, a significant share of those 3pt shots he took were highly contested 'desperation shots...3pt shots as time was running out on the shot clock or quarter or when the team is down more than 2pts in the final seconds. Is the 3pt contest not a an open 3pt shot?

Context is, 3point line didn't even exist before Bird got drafted. Larry was a PIONEER and was the TOP 3point shooter of his ERA. If you put Steph played in that ERA, he won't be practicing 3s.

Also Bird always always had the greatest players gaurded him and majority of the time double and triple teamed and was one of the top passers of all time. So wasnt always looking for his own shot. He didnt rub off on screens and was pretty much never open unlike redick

JJR is trying to develop his ESPN brand, which is to make outrageous statements just to create controversy so to make his brand known.

@KaineTremaine

Жыл бұрын

True, but he lacks the personality to make it successful. His days are numbered

All that physicallity was under the basket. So not related to threes which will always be the least defended shot as it's the highest risk. Anyone who watched Bird play not just highlights will see the difficulty of some his shots and his clutchness. 9:51 Love that last point lol

@drunksquirrel1507

Жыл бұрын

Physicality and shot making have literally zero correlation

@Says_me

Жыл бұрын

@@drunksquirrel1507is that sarcasm or do you mean that?

@AntiChris84

Жыл бұрын

@@drunksquirrel1507 No, there definitely is. It’s why they have shooting fouls.

@soloistdeve

Жыл бұрын

@@drunksquirrel1507 This is one of the stupidest things I've ever read.

@F76CC

Жыл бұрын

Depends on who has the ball. There are players that have their 3pt shots guarded more than anything else.

everytime the nba physicality debate comes up. the name bill lambier comes up lol

Being the best 3 point shooter in the 80s and 90s is like being the best defender today.

@sendongshakur2604

Жыл бұрын

this is actually kinda true lmao

@fortynights1513

Жыл бұрын

@@sendongshakur2604how so?

JJ Reddick can't give oppinion on superstars, because he never was one.... damn! Don't make the count, that man is out! LOL

i think context matters a lot here. JJ said the physicality was negligible regarding the shooting. he wasn’t getting clobbered and grabbed running around screens and out by the 3 point line. he WAS mostly left more open than today’s shooters because the 3 pointer wasn’t considered to be an effective shot. but taking that JJ clip out of context is pretty nasty work by media outlets lol

@5thdimension387

Жыл бұрын

Facts

@Maloman05

Жыл бұрын

The fact that bro didn't show a single clip of Larry Bird being fouled hard outside of the restricted era in that entire segment after he talked about the physicality played on elite off-ball/spot up shooters is so funny. School let out too early.

37.6% on 1.9 3PA in the regular season, and 32.1% on 1.5 3PA in the playoffs. Fuck outta here. I have him as the 7th greatest player ever, but that is just insane.

For me he is one of the greatest because of how good he was for HIS time. People need to remember, if he was that good then, in today era he'd probably be a 40% shooter on 7/8 attempts per game with how much the game is centered around the 3 ball.

@phillipcummings3518

Жыл бұрын

Imagine if he practiced the three pointer like Steph...

@fortynights1513

Жыл бұрын

Some people may rank him a bit high on all time three point shooting lists, but for his generation, Bird absolutely was a great three point shooter

@villedakilla6793

Жыл бұрын

This is by definition a hypothetical statement. You are making an assumption that he would be a 40% 3pt shooter in todays game. But the fact of the matter is he was not a 40% 3pt shooter when he played. Saying he is a top 3 3pt shooter of all time is a hyperbolic statement to make given his career 3pt percentage. There almost a dozen players i could name who were better 3pt shooters for their career than Larry Bird.

@Homer-OJ-Simpson

Жыл бұрын

Bird shot 40% from 3pt in his 2nd half of the career. Thinking Basketball named him 3rd best shooter ever and said his 3pt % is misleading due to how many shots he had to take that were desperation shots such a shot clock running out, quarter ending, or end of game desperation shots to come back. He also won all 3 of the 3pt contest and when you compare the % of shots made in those competitions, it's right there among the elites of the past 10 years in the contest. If Bird was able to have plays set up for him to get a 3pt shot like screens to free him up and he was able to take more than 3pt shots, he would among the best today. Probably only behind Curry.

@Homer-OJ-Simpson

Жыл бұрын

@@villedakilla6793 It doesn't take much assuming here. Bird's actual % of shots made in 3pt contest were comparable to the top performers of the past 10 years. Bird also shot 40% of his 3pt in the 2nd half of his career depsite a sizeable % of the shots being forced either due to quarter ending or shot clock or desperation as they are down. Then also consider they didn't draw up plays to free him up for 3pt shot like they do today. So 40% given all that means he would certainly be 40%+ at high volume today (6-8 attempts per game). He was also among the best every FT shoots.

The points about the 3pt shot is what those who criticize bird or MJ about 3pt % need to take into account. The 3 pt shot was not something players worked on back then.

@arch8748

Жыл бұрын

Hahahaha. So they were worse at shooting because they didn’t practice it. Yea that’s the whole point. That’s what JJ is saying. How can you be considered a top 3 shooter when you don’t practice shooting 😂

@justamessenger4577

Жыл бұрын

@@arch8748 I don’t disagree with his position. I don’t think bird is a top 3 3pt shooter. But the fact that the 3pt shot was in its infancy in the early 80s needs to be taken into account. Players didn’t grow up with that shot back then like players today. It would not have been practiced to the extreme it is today. And it is correct to say that those who don’t practice something will not be as good as those who do. JJ is ignoring that in making his point. He is improperly criticizing players from the 80s in regards to the 3pt shot. But if you check out stats of say bird and MJ, you will see that their % went up as they increased their use of the 3pt shot. That shows my point is valid. The more they used it, the better they got.

@tiktokexposed898

Жыл бұрын

MJ played in a era with Regiie Miller. No excuses MJ was just a bad 3pt shooter

@Homer-OJ-Simpson

Жыл бұрын

@@tiktokexposed898 but Jordan didn’t take 3’s so the few he did were often forced 3’s at end of game or as shot clock is running out. Not including the shorten 3 line seasons, he was a 36% shooter his two highest attempt seasons.

@tiktokexposed898

Жыл бұрын

@@Homer-OJ-Simpson he was OK at best. 3pt shot wasn't his game

It’s always draymond, JJ, white chocolate, and Gilbert arenas disregarding older talents.

You left the best for last. He never was a superstar, you killed it.

Tbh, there's probably 15 better 3pt shooters than Larry Bird right now. But, if i have to give the last shot from 3 to a player, i would give him to the Legend (or Miller, he was clutch too). In the case of the physicality, i think the NBA, after the Malace of the Palace (something you forgot to mention dear Jonny) made their biggest effort to make the game as clean as possible. A game from 2002, in terms of brutality, it's not miles away of the physicality from a game the 80's. But, with this fast pace offense, a lot of threes, and rules in favor of a non physical game, the NBA today is not as tough as the 80's or 90's. Maybe 30% less physical, or something like that.

That last line though 🥶

Been waiting for this one!

He literally said Larry is one of the greatest shooters ever in the clip you posted bro ...

Yeah, Jonny, this gotta stop.

@tajmula671

Жыл бұрын

fr i thought he was good at this but obviously not 😂

JJ is right tho

One of your arguments for Larry Bird being a great 3P shooter is he didn't try to develop his outside shot early in his career. How is that relevant exactly? Bird has 0.3% better 3P% for his career than Dame, but Dame averages over 8 3PA per game, Larry under 2. You can't have this debate without giving full context.

@dulogmaz

Жыл бұрын

And don't give me the bullshit argument about "Yeah but the league is different bla bla.." It doesn't matter what WOULD'VE happened if Larry played today or vice versa, it matters what DID happen.

Jonny going in for the kill, last line was cold as hell

Great take, for me Larry is top 7-8 all time 3P shooter and the 80’s was more physical than today as was the 90’s

@Leodoesthings23

Жыл бұрын

Saying Larry is a top 8 3 point shooter is actually insane

@bobbyd1632

Жыл бұрын

@@Leodoesthings23 why do think that

@Leodoesthings23

Жыл бұрын

@@bobbyd1632 96 3s in 82 games is his best season. At a certain point volume matters. Dame hit 12 3s the other night. How can you compare that to one made 3 a game? It’s not comparable

@bobbyd1632

Жыл бұрын

@@Leodoesthings23 yes but we don’t compare players in a vacuum. Larry played in an era without any specialist 3P coaching, give Larry all the advantages of todays players and he’s shooting like Klay and Dame maybe better. I mean based on league averages Larry was 10% above his peers averages. Dame is less than 1% above his peers averages.

@Leodoesthings23

Жыл бұрын

@@bobbyd1632 Sure, but we live in our reality, and in our reality, Larry only made 1.2 3s a game in his best season. That don’t make him a top 20 3 pt shooter in this reality. The 80s? Sure. All time? Hell nah.

thank you jonny! for the most part you made your points perfectly. jj needs a serious reality check. but he'll never get it, because he has an ideologically driven perspective. make that, dogma. and gilbert arenas needs to be similarly put in his place, his takes are in some ways even worse!

Dominique is an all time great, Reddick was a borderline starter in his prime. Man needs to realize his place in relations to these guys

@georgesears2666

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, but in terms of 3 point shooting (which is what this discussion is), I think he has a better claim to know what he's talking about

Glad you’re giving perspective on the rule changes, rules are everything

I honestly kinda agree with the plain argument of "Bird isn't a top 5 3-point shooter of all time" Cause I'd take Steph, Klay, Reggie, Allen, and Dame all over Bird. Bird is probably around 6-7 in my book but just as an opinion of Bird as a 3 point shooter I agree with the take

LARRY LEGEND#33 THE BEST SHOOTER IN NBA 🏀 HISTORY .. HE TOLD PLAYERS WHAT HE WAS GONNA DO .. AND THEN HE DID IT ..

@sportsgamer2342

Жыл бұрын

Lmao steph is better done on now 😂 3pt goat

@kingdon1285

Жыл бұрын

🤡

Thank you! I was waiting for this

Ya, it’s getting sad. Although I should have known when he used the “plumbers” meme to reference 70s players that he was becoming unhinged.

This is why Jonny Arnett and Uncut Hoops are my favorite hoops channels. Full of logic, common sense and actual facts. These hot take artists unfortunately have so much sway on the casuals and fanboys.

@user-ql6cy3cg8r

Жыл бұрын

Yall are a seriously delusional bunch, I swear

@mamadoubarrie6607

Жыл бұрын

So u saying u an old head

@dododump3144

Жыл бұрын

Just say you’re an old head

@ghosttheripper8656

Жыл бұрын

“Hot take artist” I don’t think I have ever heard JJ called that. That’s how I know you don’t watch shit but watch everything in a funnel, taking in what you want. JJ did not start this convo. He is not the one who ever starts comparing across eras. He emphasizes over and over again that comparing across eras is stupid. He is asked a question on first take and answered it. “Is Larry bird a top 5 3pt shooter “ the answer is no. He is one of the greatest shooters of all time but not a 3 point shooter. Steph, Klay, Reggie, ray, Kyle/steve etc. those are some of the best 3pt shooters to ever play the game. Back then the 3 ball wasn’t emphasized so how can he be the best 3pt shooter? Dude shot less the 38% from 3 and had open 3s on the perimeter if he wanted them because you could not let Larry legend take you of dribble from closing out on a shot that was barely shot back then. The only hot-take I heard from JJ was that the 80s and 90s weren’t as physical as people make it out and I agree. There were the pistions the knicks and like 1 more I’m forgetting and that’s it. People act like there were UFC fights every game but the only thing there was were harder fouls at the rack. Stop people from attacking. This has died out to protect players, for obvious reasons as there the money makers,but other than that nothing was crazy more physical than this era. Idk man I think JJ hit it on the head. And, if you actually watch JJ, his KZread channel, his podcast, he has spoken on this. What he said has been clipped and taken out of context by a bunch of people. He never once disrespect Larry and even emphasized he is in his top 5 players All time. Just not 3 point shooters. JJ would know, he is one of the best 3pt shooters to play the game. Top 10-15

According to JJ’s logic about volume, the best paint scores of all time would have all played in the 60s and anyone after that would be inferior. This is because there was a much higher “volume” of paint scores during that area.

@K-Dot94

Жыл бұрын

Kind of, but not the “best paint scorers plural”, just wilt, there are still statistically more impressive paint scorers in the modern era than 60s players other than wilt obviously

@Mmmm-lx9vb

Жыл бұрын

Expect the superstars played against clearly weaker competition than today and were not nearly as skilled as players from 80s and onwards. Volume is a factor but not over things like that, when everything else is close a big difference in volume matters

@Davos-st8ok

Жыл бұрын

This is not JJ's logic, this is simply logic. Its easy to be efficient on low volume and difficult to maintain that same efficiency on higher volume. Bird shooting merely 37% on less than 2 attempts per game simply disqualifies him from the GOAT 3 point shooter debate. Your example is a fallacy. The had terrible athletes in the 60s, who were small and can't guard the paint. That doesn't automatically make the players who had success in the paint during the era the best paint scorers of all time.

@demonkingbadger6689

Жыл бұрын

@@Mmmm-lx9vb the center position was not weak in the 60s, over half the team's had a future hof.

@markpagtama7954

Жыл бұрын

​@@demonkingbadger6689 i mean players averaging 6 ppg made the hof back then bro.

JJ ...they didn't take as many 3 point shoots as they do now. The pot up game, and mid range jumpers ruled the game back then.

I do agree that ball in the 80’s and 90’s was a little more physical than todays game but all you showed were clips of people getting hacked and were def all called as fouls

@KClouisville

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, but players not gettting tossed and suspended for them had a cumulative effect on how the game was played, just as the defensive 3 second rule not being there did as well. Just as allowing hand-checking back then did.

Larry is a back to back to back 3 point contest winner.

I love this channel but this video is disappointing, to say the least. 1. JJ didn't refer to pros from all previous generations as plumbers and firemen. He was only talking about the 50s and early 60s, and it is a fact that players from that era had to have other jobs. And he wasn't dissing them, he was only responding to Mad Dog's ridiculous claim about Bob Cousy. 2. JJ is absolutely right about Larry Bird not being a top-5 3P shooter of all time. Larry Bird shot 32% from 3 in the playoffs on 1.5 attempts per game. 3. JJ has repeatedly said that the physicality of the 80s and 90s was higher, but people exaggerate how physical that era was. he was arguing that Mad Dog can't use the physicality argument for Larry Bird's 3P shooting when Curry nowadays gets manhandled off-ball much more than Larry Bird ever experienced shooting 3-pointers.

@danielmunozalvarez9321

Жыл бұрын

On point

@JDubs1464

Жыл бұрын

Number 2 is just you serving as a mouthpiece for RustyBuckets, the league averaged 3.5 3PA PER TEAM in the 80’s that’s the equivalent of Bird shooting 14.6 3PA in 2023 and making 4.6, that would rank him first in the league

@ramyhany4309

Жыл бұрын

@@JDubs1464 Making 4.6 3P from 14.6 attempts would make him an awful shooter in today's league.

@Curizix

Жыл бұрын

And even beyond the attempts, shooters are shooting WAYYY tougher shots than Bird. Bird was not shooting off the dribble, contested, or from very deep on a consistent basis like Curry and Dame are. So him comparing Dame’s efficiency to Bird was so misleading

@2FadeMusic

Жыл бұрын

@@JDubs1464 Okay. And that's why JJ never said anything about Bird not being one of the best shooters relative to his era. It's almost like being the best in a much worse era, means you don't hold a candle to the best shooters today, objectively speaking. Talking relative to their era is a completely different conversation, and it's not the conversation JJ was having.

Jonny with the most thought-out opinion as always. Totally agreed with all the points

80s nba be like modern NHL hold my beer.

its unfortunate this KZreadr didn't listen to JJ'S podcast..he addressed and clarified much further. can't quote his First Take arguments alone...

@RogerSouthCarolina

Жыл бұрын

Pretty disappointing to be honest

The flagrant foul not exiting part THANK YOU!!!!! But for youngings reading this, just for the record, I am all for the flagrant foul being a thing because clothe lining people is extremely dangerous. At the same time, the fact that there was a time where it didn't exist should give 80s players the benefit of the doubt when it comes to their ability to score because it's an indisputable that getting your shot off and if you do, being able to make it is a lot harder when you're getting mauled.

@Paul_Reeds_Boyfriend

Жыл бұрын

🤓🤓🤓🤓

..... jj literally said Larry Bird was great, he simply wasn't in the top 5. which can be argued.

I can’t wait for 10-20years from now when they call JJ a plumber/firemen 😂😂😂

Honestly, JJs takes aren't perfect but Jonny I have to disagree on a couple of your arguments here: first JJ did say that Bird is one of the greatest shooters of all time, his argument was that he isn't a top 3-5 3 point shooter which is totally valid. As far as the physicality goes, at first I thought he was also off base on that point, but if you listen to him talk about it in his podcast he has a fair point. Most of the difference in physicality came down to how hard you could foul a player which is basically the point you made in your video here. While fouls were often much harder, fouls are not "basketball plays" which is why they are fouls in the first place and cause the refs to stop the game. In that sense he's correct that the game itself wasn't much more physical

Great video! As always! One more thing I would add is how freedom of movement was implemented in the 2018-19 season which has helped 3 point shooters move around to get open more freely. Percentage wise, well the 2020-1 season saw its highest percentage since the 2008-09 season but we can keep in mind a big portion of the season was with little to no fans in attendance. The percentages since freedom of movement was implemented have been up and down but the attempts have gone up.

@fortynights1513

Жыл бұрын

What does freedom of movement mean here? And what specifically changed?

End of the vid an L like ur begging for Jj to see this

If players don't respect the history of their game why should anybody else care about their sport?

That last sentence was golden.