This is called meaningful debate. My sincere thanks to the K’s organisation for preserving these precious videos and making it available on KZread.

@thisisqualia

25 күн бұрын

It's a "discussion".

When jk died he said i wasted my life, people just took my talks as entertainment. But now almost 60 year his and 37 year of his death almost after 100 years we are capable to understand him. His life not wasted. We understand what treasure he lift for us. Respect from whole humunity 🙏❤️

@clodhopper-dodo

2 жыл бұрын

Can you come out of the stream or still part of the stream?

@chetukmth

2 жыл бұрын

How can jk say after dieing 🤣🤣🤣

@lambertronics

2 жыл бұрын

@@liviuclipa The "I" referred to above is from K's own words. It's a quote, though admittedly missing the quotation marks. Are you suggesting K didn't know which "I" he was referring to when he said that? It's obvious K is referring to the time-bound "I" in his statement.

@hemantbishtpcs

Жыл бұрын

Those who understood him and applied are all JK(not the speaker but the real truth which is beyond time, death, birth).

@learnwithsunny001

Жыл бұрын

Certainly not

This is brilliant. I wish the world would watch this instead of mindless tick tock, news, etc. etc. It should be in all schools

@karanagrawal8499

Жыл бұрын

It should be in early life juvenile days but not in school it will pacify twist this thing it is like be in butcher shop talk about love peace sensitivity

@mettacognizant

11 ай бұрын

As a history teacher, who is caught in the stream, I do try to bring K into the classroom. This is easy when teaching how tribalism, nationalism, and other divisions cause conflict. It’s not as easy to get the youth to challenge their ideas of their identities

13:35 death & stream 38:18 42:18 step out 1:08:18 rebirth 1:12:05 reincarnation 1:16:21 step out of stream 1:20:24 meditation 1:33:46 awareness, attention

When in search of truth I never watched jk's videos even when youtube suggested. Almost for many years I wasted by watching and following some guru's and beliving in nonsense. I never thought of our own capabilities. After watching JK's talks it completely changing my thinking direction and what I believed till is completely demolishing.

@annelbeab8124

Жыл бұрын

Happy for you ! It's eye opening and in the best sense radical. Few can take it. You have to cherish truth above all beliefs, memories and other mental patterns to see it and inquire into it yourself. The paradoxon puzzling the human mind is his individuality while being not being separate from the whole. In a way, we simply peel off the delusional mental bit and unfold into our potential as a flower would do, without ambition nor contest.

@mettacognizant

11 ай бұрын

My dad put Freedom From the Known in my hands when I was a pre-teen in the early-mid 1990s. I read it, had no clue what it was saying, and put it away. In my late 20s, I fell in love with Buddhism. In my late 30s, I picked K back up, and never touched so-called religion again. Idk but I feel like exposure to non-western tradition and thought helped expand/open… provided context I guess maybe?

This Buddhist scholar is so kind and generous.His questions help a lot to all of us❤

@thisisqualia

25 күн бұрын

It's not kindness nor generousity: it's intelectual materialism and a huge internal feeling of inferiority. He was not attending to become aware. He was attending to debate.

@sankarakrishnan8707

3 күн бұрын

He came there to say "according to the buddha" as if he was personal assistant to Shri Gautama😅

Yes, all these talks are really wisdom all through!! Many thanks for making it available 🙏🙏🙏

Poor Krishnamurti. Just has had to state: "Just feel responsible for any problem of mankind you're aware in your daily life. Don't leave it to the politicians or priests, just enquire for your own. To feel not responsible for these problems is the beginning of psychological division. And the energy of enquiry will free yourself from your conditioned state of mind." Greetz from Austria!

@shivabharani8091

4 жыл бұрын

Exactly! Well said sir!

@salvatoremagnani4919

Жыл бұрын

Sono con i tuoi pensieri su jk dovrebbero insegnare nelle scuole ciao sono di Monza Brianza.. Varedo

@CHY873

11 ай бұрын

So well put!

My first interaction with JK ji ...What a insight he gave ..... Absolutely beautiful way of putting things in perspective and when he say "Meditation is meditator "... Somehow I find his teaching similar to vedanta but he said it differently ! Thanks you for making us aware sir

@rameshrajagopalannair6108

3 жыл бұрын

You had the chance to talk to him in person ? That must have been so delightful. Discovering him in the new age to have only his talks and books but a mind full of questions to clarify its painful to think that one was born so late to never have the chance to fully clarify oneself and one's own doubts.

@JOEFRO2

Жыл бұрын

@@rameshrajagopalannair6108 We don’t need K to discover the truth. We just have to be honest with ourselves about whatever we’re observing in the moment.

Jks way of explaining things is no match to any scriptures, vedanta etc etc.He goes right at the root, makes us see, if we listen to him with complete attention as he had been saying.Thank u for sharing these videos 🙏

@vagaboundHarish

2 жыл бұрын

He teached exactly what Advait vedanta is. aham brahmasmi !

@magnuscarlsen9785

Жыл бұрын

@@vagaboundHarish Yeah you are right, Krishnamurty, Vedanta, Bhagwat Gita, Buddhism all say the same thing if not superficially looked at.

@krox477

Жыл бұрын

They're all saying the same truth in different words different forms

In the last several minutes when Jiddu is explaining “attention”, his tone of voice and his whole presence is conveying the energy of attention. That is why he interrupts the Buddhist gentleman’s sentences…. JK is creating that quality of presence for the group, for all of us …. if we tune in. Having done the Vipassana several times and Satipathana sutha ( discourse) course just in May, I was confused and somehow all the confusion led me to JK …. It’s amazing how he literally teaches exactly what the Buddha did …. but in modern day English ( hence directly to us, without the 2000 years of translation / interpretations)… This video is a blessing. Thank you K foundation for capturing and giving it to us in exact original version ! 🙏🙏

@friendsnote.1013

Ай бұрын

Krishnamurti was not teaching what the Buddha taught. If we depend on “authority”, then the mind won’t learn and be free….thats all.

Thank you so much for archiving and sharing this!

This series of discussion has been so profound. I thank you for uploading this as this will for sure change human beings.

This is treasure . Making me more enquire inwardly. Thank you 🙏🏻

I am blessed with all these five discussion , but each time when I try to find the solution for my problem , my past knowledge fool me . And that's why it's become difficult to take instant action . Oh god ..

@bassiebassie3417

2 жыл бұрын

I wanna die

@clodhopper-dodo

2 жыл бұрын

Your past knowledge is the culprit that creates the question and the level of past knowledge gives back the answer

56:02 "K: Reading the menu doesn’t feed me." so true =)))

Thank You so much for bringing this up to light again 🗝️🙏✨✨✨

Meditation is the meditator. No separation. Thank you so much for these simply wonderful talks ❤

JK Sir, Very very profound discussion, One of the very very few who had the energy, examination, and who "enquired" clearly to become a world teacher. 🙏🙏🙏, We are privileged to hear him, and hope his message is spread to generations to come.

Everyone needs to see these videos !

Krishnamurti proved without a shadow of doubt that everyone is seeing,hearing & overall experiencing something different when subjected to the same circumstances

This one is MASTER PIECE. ▪ Not being able to get out of this stream of sorrow, thought have invented TIME.

@xdude57

2 жыл бұрын

I thought so too, well put!

One thing that No one can disagree with, Krishnamurthy sir is so humble ❤

Thank you very much.

Krishnaji is the Quantum Mechanics of psychological reality with all it’s beauty out of illusions! 🙂

In the past I have experienced greater dissolution and merging with the environment, but what K. tells is still beyond my level of experience Unbelievable

@x-sss-x

8 ай бұрын

There is no experiencer to experience

JK is talking about The Emptiness, The Freedom in Your Heart that is connected to the Universal- Intelligence. ❤🙏😇

@nadadenadax4903

Жыл бұрын

Hopefully 😅

I profoundly love the conversation

In this whole discussion, i felt uncomfortable, disappointed and horrible from inside. 😔 I am that stream.

The moment the example of stream is used to describe the phenomenon using words, the so called logical and conditioned mind already identifies the stream to be as a permanent structure and expects any 'insight ' or freedom to be outside of this permanent structure. The very understanding of the structure of stream ends 'A' the illusion born in the stream. .... Thanks to 'K'...

@shivangihere9141

2 жыл бұрын

And what happens to that A thereafter ? Free from illusions and stream where has it gone ?

@xdude57

2 жыл бұрын

@@shivangihere9141 He is not contributing to the stream anymore. He sees it. Dies to every-moment.

@krox477

11 ай бұрын

That means there's no birth and death it's just waves of consciousness coming and going back

Thank you so much, It was a great Diskussion about fundamental questions of mankind.

The pain is so immense when one realised.

Thanks. Wonderful!

Does some of the salt/suffering water stream evaporate and rain into a puddle without salt/suffering?

That Buddhist is so conditioned that he's living with me in the stream

@pratikpatil6342

3 жыл бұрын

Yes..with all of us 😅

@brittanyguerra602

3 жыл бұрын

🤣🤣🤣🤣

@sabvrao

Жыл бұрын

😂 😂

@madhavitirimi

Жыл бұрын

😂

@kooroshrostami27

Жыл бұрын

K. and buddhism agree on many things, e.g. the impermanence in everything, suffering being the main factor of the human condition, also on the conditioned self being the main reason for this suffering. The problem with buddhism is stated in the earlier video of this discussion: It is assumed that we are so conditioned that a sudden insight cannot dissolve the self but rather a long and steady process of meditation. This brings in time again and hence thought and thereby the movement of becoming. There are schools of buddhism, such as mahayana, theravada and vajrayana, there are methods of meditation, the idea of the boddhisatva who really is just another kind of saviour like Jesus. The core wisdom of the Buddha is sound, but it has been ruined by tradition and institutionalized religion.

Thanks for these videos.

Humanity is going to immensely benefit from his wisdom...❤️🙏🏻

Feeling the stream Able to get out of the stream i.e can stop the stream . Thank you Krishnamurthy

What an excellent find!

How beautiful existence is K I wonder anyone from the group did touch what he has pointed out.

Yes, this is what I felt when my brother passed. Studied Christianity, questioned it all. Found peace.

This is one of the best videos that tears into heart of the teachings of Jiddu. The most important moments happen around 1:34 to 1:35.

Jiddu Krishnamurti was great....!! 👍😊👏

The true nowadays world teacher was J.K. He spoke the raw truth ♥️💯

Krishnamurti ❤️

AS LONG AS I ACCEPT ANY AUTHORITY, NO MATTER WHO IT IS, THERE IS NO INSIGHT.

wonderful!

I can't find names of attendees of this discussion. There are only initials. Where can I find their full names?

@KFoundation

5 жыл бұрын

J. Krishnamurti, Scott Forbes, Phiroz Mehta, G. Narayan, Shakuntala Narayan, T.K. Parchure, Walpola Rahula, Stephen J. Smith, Mary Zimbalist

@przemekpawlikowski4420

5 жыл бұрын

@@KFoundation Thank you very much for the answer : )

Grazie 🙏

To put it simply: If A carries an image of himself, then the whole inquiry is merely illusory. Because there would be no critical difference at all between A and the stream. A is the stream.

@themegalithicmast2774

2 жыл бұрын

🎯

Enquiry is not one-time activity, whenever you have fear one should avoid going to the stream because it's someone else experience, someone else throught, instead reject that and start enquiry going into deep and resolve permanently so to avoid reoccurrence of the same fear instead of undergoing tremors of fear again and again.

I shouldnt just say thank you to the Foundation. How can I say thanks for somthing so beautiful. I am in the first 30 mins of this video . I ernt back , watched again. K knew he was bringing to the table something seemingly impossible to accept ( TK pointed that there was a logic error which K didnt disapprove of ) . The whole point was to wrack each brain to give up its conditioning, so the fallacy ( or wat u will ). K was leading all to the ground.

To Krishnamurthi Ji...😘❤️🙏🏻😘❤️🙏🏻...

Jiddu, Jiddu... Having the intelligent capacity to inquire deeply into all this - to examine the whole structure of sorrow - proves that we are more than simply the stream... If there were only the sorrow, the anxiety, the despair (with the occasional moments of pleasure), there would be no intelligence, and therefore no way out.

@ToniWCampbell

5 жыл бұрын

Yacov Mitchenko What’s the point of using logic to disprove it. Logic can be used in many fallacious ways. to know the truth of it you have to observe it yourself.

Life only works because we don't know where we came from, what is our purpose or what happens after we die. If we knew any of these things we would cease to function, the present would become insignificant and intelligence would guide us in a completely different direction. I see this happening when there is a belief in an origin story, a belief in our purpose, or a belief in an afterlife. Acts carried out on the basis of any of these beliefs corrupts us from our true purpose and leads to destruction. Wars, poverty, desperation, greed etc. There is something significant about the development of life, something is being unlocked, or uncovered I feel.

I love the way he talk at 54:10 seconds thats what the other sides holds k is talking to his experience not by the books...

Why we divide stream and sorrow? this is just one movement, apparently, this stream was inevitable in the beginning of mankind, but the real question is: why we dont leave it, why humans don't put outside beliefs, attachments, knowledge etc, etc, why accept this misery (stream) am the misery .... firstable, we have to realize we are that... see it. because if we divide: me and the stream is a form of reinforce it....

I did not and still I do not know what Krishnamurti meant, BUT I "feel" it was and still is important.

My take on the discussion: Love is source. Source is life. Life & death are the same thing. The examination of love is deaths begining and loves ending. Death ends and love begins again with insight. Insight begins once the examination ends. The function of insight is compassion derived from awareness. The examiner and the attender are indivisible. All things return to source. Source is Love

The thing about observing in the manner of what Jiddu is proposing, is that I don’t think it’s possible at all to observe something neutrally. Because if there is nothing to compare to where is the value to be about? It’s like being in a deep freeze and imagining you are warm, or not knowing that you are in low temperature.

@Ninja04051

4 жыл бұрын

He is not talking anything about physical sense or related to it! If it's cold then it's cold. Whatever he says is pshycological and wrt the illusion of things which don't actually exist

@newsandeducation3799

2 жыл бұрын

@@Ninja04051 still it's difficult. He didn't tell any method But many got freedom of suffering who even didn't have listen the concept of awareness, concentration being the illiterates and this is clear in the writings of Indian saints and also they claimed their reminiscent about their past life. But JK didn't admit it above I wrote

✋✋✋at 1.17.25 krishnaji said if A is out of that stream then his consciousness is a different dimension altogether.he didnot explain,what is the nature of that consciousness?and what is the source of that consciousness?can anybody explain?

@BuddhaLove77

Жыл бұрын

You are right! I think that would be a good thing to see...

But guys, there is so much to inquire then, is there a question to enquire that ends all the rest of the questions ? What do you think?

Profound

Can someone explain me the position of jk about reincarnation? Because in this video he said that if we don't step out of the river, we will be back in the stream, but then he said that there is not a me that reincarnate.. can someone explain please?

@jayl8811

2 жыл бұрын

The problem is of course words are not perfect so they can lead to confusion but are required to try to explain. So there is no individual just the manifestation of the stream, within that form/name there is desire, suffering etc. when one dies (the body) the desire and suffering does not die nor does it return to the stream as it never left as we are the stream. It is similar to Buddhist rebirth no soul just conditions rather than hindu reincarnation atman/soul transmigration. Hope this helps this is how i hear it put in the best words i can :)

super

When he says “wait wait wait” and interrupts WR, it is because he is gradually building the meditative / attention energy in the room … it’s not an intellectual discussion…. It is communion…Group meditation…

I am very confused,😨😰. Buddha and J krishnmurti says. I am the world.world is not different from me.. my suffering is not my suffering. Suffering is all mankind suffering. There is no individual entity. There is no self. Self is illusion. So how to take rebirth without no self. Because self is illusion . I am world. World is me. There is no permanent entity.we are same counsinesness.. i am not different from mankind. How to take rebirth without no self.. 2.what is difference rebirth and recarnetion...

thanks official channel for posting such rare debate and look at K ....HE SPEAKS truth and simply naked facts does not mince words ....totally FREE PERSON CAN DO SO...only k none other than k can say so...

🙏

Has he ever talked about the "aftermath" of "stepping out of the stream? What happens when "B steps out of the stream"? Is there any video in which talks about that? I was hoping that he would go beyond "the process of stepping out of the stream" in this video.

@HelloWorld-xc4xd

3 жыл бұрын

He says it is immeasurable and beyond time there fore any description we give to it will put it back into our small thought which it is not, it has its own existence which is separate from our thought.

@kevincastelino3209

2 жыл бұрын

S. Stepping out can be done while living that means living in a different dimension. K is supposed to have stepped out of the stream hence out of human conciousness.

@krox477

Жыл бұрын

You can't describe it it's like singularity. You'll live without identification

Can u pls upload part 6 of the dialogue.

@KFoundation

2 жыл бұрын

There isn't a part 6, this is the last discussion in the series.

Yes we all are within the stream, in the essence in other words.

Is memories also part of that universal consciousness ?

Summary:- That stream is the field of consciousness in wgich there is the content of consciousness which is based on time and thought i.e hurts, anxieties, longings, aspirations,beliefs and all the rest of it. In that stream/field of consciousness,there is no freedom. One may invent the images ir ideas of freedom, religion,gods etc.. but that is also the activity or the inventions of thought. Hence,it is all the movement of thought. Now,the insight into that whole structure is the key or the way out of that stream.That insight is intelligence and that very insight cahnges the brain cells and therefore there is an ending.That ending of the content of consciousness is DEATH.

@her26mlifecount21

Жыл бұрын

Well explained as I understood it

@CHY873

11 ай бұрын

Well put ! I too concur.

Who sees that there is a stream ?? Is it the stream only seeing itself or is it the manifestation that sees that stream ??

@mariekuijkenhistoricallyaw2598

Жыл бұрын

I guess .. both, as the manifestation IS the stream

To find out you must ask these questions only when you forget the name and form simply that

🙏🏻

Its like I am in concentration camp( consciousness) I am there 20 years just suffering, ignorance that this is everything and one day suddenly I realizes why i am suffering always and i look around and enquire why I am in this horrible place and I see the exit and I jump off, this realization and looking not necessarily be a part of stream of consciousness.

What a great in-depth knowledge and understanding or say insight from JK. At the end I felt that, JK understood that after spending so many hours with the Buddhist scholar, he still didn't get it. I saw that the Buddhist scholar was not just pre-conditioned but also carried such a high ego, where he wants to enquire but do not want to give up his prejudice (as if he already knew all the answers and he has concluded the outcome). For him the whole effort was futile, unless he introspect and go through the whole discussion again and see what JK meant.

No Phds, no amount of knowledge, no amount of books, no amount of Gurus you have been through, no amount of meditation you have gone through, can prepare you to grasp what 'Krishna Ji' is saying.

@newsandeducation3799

2 жыл бұрын

Can you bring out the brief of the talk?

Who is FM in the video? Is a list of the participants available?

@KFoundation

3 жыл бұрын

J. Krishnamurti, Scott Forbes, Phiroz Mehta, G. Narayan, Shakuntala Narayan, T.K. Parchure, Walpola Rahula, Stephen J. Smith, Mary Zimbalist

@tamasstekler4383

3 жыл бұрын

@@KFoundation thank you 🙏

Seems everyone imagine the river as the river on the reality world. When K pointed A as part of the stream of river then A has an inside to see the roots of the stream, everyone thinking that A is not part of the river anymore. At this point everyone is lost.

👍👍👍

What Krishnamurti says it is so brutal to the buddist monge that he can't avoid to feel under attack, he can't separate himself from his beliefs, so it must be so dificult to realize that your hole life its been wasted in a pointless journey. I think they wanted that everything be more complex that it really is.

@urgenlama7302

Жыл бұрын

Absolutely wrong sir

@krox477

Жыл бұрын

It seems like he learnt all these concepts intellectually but couldn't apply it in his life

Meditation is the state of the mind that is absorbed in total attention, intently listening, observing ... to a point self does not exist?...

The Buddhist monk is a learned robot.

Attention is involved in awareness. Because attention includes Sati , Visara and varying degree of Samadhi. Samadhi is usually mentioned as concentration .

I love K

When he says tht ‘meditation is the meditator’, i think what he is trying to say is that it is the whole of meditation that experiences itself through the meditator not that the meditator is experiencing meditation. He is simply attuning himself into that frequency. The frequency is always there for us to tap into

@Gaurav.P0

3 жыл бұрын

No brother. Meditation is the meditator means there is "No self" involves. Analyser is the analysed. Observer is the observed. There is neither meditation, nor meditator. Meditation and mediator are illusions. The very act of doing meditation is conditioning and prison. There is neither any frequency, nor anything to tap into. Basically, you just do nothing. The very act of doing something is dangerous.

@BuddhaLove77

Жыл бұрын

@@Gaurav.P0 Thank you....

I still don't understand the stream part.

How can the conditioned, manifest the unconditioned?

@pratikpatil6342

3 жыл бұрын

When he/ she enquires with total freedom ?

🙏💚💙💚

Is there the 6th part of this please?

@KFoundation

Жыл бұрын

This is the last discussion in the series, there is no 6th discussion.

As K wud have said that I'm not being impudent when I say this... The gentle who was a Buddhist scholar was speaking to JK with alot of thought, opinion or I wud say the human conditioning was very evident in his attitude.. especially where he is not getting why the speaker is saying river mifested K or K is the mankind. He was more concerned about why only K or the alphabets which was very superficial way to look at something so deep. I am conditioned too hence, I'm concerned & judging the scholar.. & I know K wud be like what difference it makes to ur life😅 you are responsible for your life & pay attention to that... It's mind boggling how simple yet enormous & tremendous this thing is.🙏🙏

Each human being is part of that "stream." We are in that stream "already," eons ago, time immortal. That is one way to explain, to understand it but these are just words trying to put a concept that is not of time. The stream is a so-called "past in linear time, dying every moment." Without realising that we are "in that stream," we find it impossible to get out of it. Each one of us is a part of that stream, created as it is by us. If you want to know why you're in that stream, you have to get out of it. It's like saying what is a tree? Do we actually know a tree (the actuality of it?) except by a label which we call it a tree? If you take away the label, what are you left with?

@mattthn

2 жыл бұрын

Absolutely!

❤

"Don t-Know-Mind" and they move on 🙏🙏🙏

When they're talking about attention... Did anyone else go into themselves to feel/discover what takes place during a moment of attention? Did anyone else feel as though that which gives the attention and the thing receiving the attention become one movement? One joined experience? That kinda got to me lol

@Anxh007

Жыл бұрын

It does not seem one before because of observer, in attention there is no observer

🙏 I get it 🙏 to Mr. JK

Also one observation is that there is limitation of language to express these concepts makes it harder to explain.