Tom says ‘ask a Liverpool fan’ well I’m a Liverpool fan and salah absolutely makes an all time XI. He’s absolutely magic and scarily consistent, 20+ goals and 10+ assists every season, wouldn’t trade him for another player in the world. Tom’s salah tales are horrendous

@loganbutler8984

3 ай бұрын

Guys a professional pillock haha

@Deadbyeveryone

2 ай бұрын

Although a "scruffy" dribbler he beats his man I agree he defo gets in an all time XI for us.

@seongthongchuah8356

2 ай бұрын

@@Deadbyeveryone that Salah goal destroyed Cancelo's career.

@Deadbyeveryone

2 ай бұрын

@@seongthongchuah8356 cancelo destroyed cancelos career by being an arrogant prick by all accounts Salah just confounded it.

@thomasjames456

2 ай бұрын

He's not absolute magic though let's be honest

Tom telling Saka to ‘just take a man on for once’ is retrospectively hilarious 🤣

@lukeyduke8877

3 ай бұрын

Ikr he can’t even get past Robinson lmaoooo dead baller

@Coops321

2 ай бұрын

@@lukeyduke8877 Most dribbles + men beaten in the league last season btw

@t0nkyt0ner

2 ай бұрын

@@Coops321and this season?

@gamerswagg9234

2 ай бұрын

@@t0nkyt0ner he’s literally having a great season and people say he’s UNDER preforming😂 dead ball knowledge

@t0nkyt0ner

2 ай бұрын

@@gamerswagg9234 if this is a ‘great season’ then hmmm

Everything Tom said about salah was wild. Dude was way off.

@RefnRes

3 ай бұрын

It really takes a lot for someone to make even Rory Jennings seem even a little bit credible.

@yessi1585

2 ай бұрын

He always has been a Liverpool hater

@Me-gs3uu

2 ай бұрын

He was right. Salah is shit

@alphazero5421

2 ай бұрын

@@Me-gs3uu And yet he is joint top scorer with Haaland... Name anyone else that can keep up with Haaland?

@kingluis6360

2 ай бұрын

Weird that he thinks him not aesthetically liking a player means they’re overrated. One has no correlation to the other.

Never seen a comment section talk so little crap about rory after a video. Ha he needs to hire Tom to take all the heat off him in future videos

@kevintheman4408

2 ай бұрын

This😭😭😭😭

@DS-dw3pz

2 ай бұрын

Nah Rory's Hazard take was s*t...Salah ain't touching Hazard and Ronaldo in the league

This hasn’t aged well on Saka… 12 goals 7 assists. Top top

@Iam_andredan

Ай бұрын

Still overrated

@SamuelMills-ez4jo

Ай бұрын

Underrated

@Chidi_jc

Ай бұрын

Because stats

Tom with his pitiful Salah agenda again. Makes me want to turn off anything he’s on with that dead ball knowledge.

@jamespond863

3 ай бұрын

Was goinng to say he has zero ball knowledge but we now know that isn't true.

@THEWalrus271

3 ай бұрын

He’s not wrong, he is overrated he’s built as this god. Take you’re Liverpool glasses off.

@cooperharris4352

3 ай бұрын

@@THEWalrus271Tom burner account

@ozgecko4050

3 ай бұрын

someone with a klopp picture wouldn't be biased here?

@Me-gs3uu

2 ай бұрын

Salah is shit. Shut up. So overrated

Little did Tom know there was worse weekends to come😂

@ZacDjellabb

3 ай бұрын

Hahahahahah

@icewallowcom3526

3 ай бұрын

He was right about the Hazard thing tho. This whole argument just shows how the standards have fallen.

@kamel2475

3 ай бұрын

idk how someone can say this when he went two calendar years without scoring, sure he'd have more goals playing in that liverpool front three but I doubt they'd be as much as Salahs. To Toms point of salah not being entertaining or having that "wow" ig he forgot about the 17/18 or start to 21/22 season man was electric.@@icewallowcom3526

@cooperharris4352

3 ай бұрын

@@icewallowcom3526Tom’s burner account

@testadalord01432

3 ай бұрын

@@icewallowcom3526 Eden Hazard was mad overrated for the level of output provided, his best season is worse than Salah’s WORST

nothing against him as a person, but you can tell tom garrett has come from tiktok. every point he makes is completely narrative driven, embodiment of football twitter essentially

@hello7032

3 ай бұрын

Bingo

@HenryChungFootball

3 ай бұрын

what? He predominantly come from pitchside pod. yeah he doesn't make the same style of content as all the others but thats not a problem, it makes it enjoyable

@jd-mk3bz

3 ай бұрын

@@HenryChungFootballno he doesn’t “predominantly come” from that he started doing that after tiktok

@HenryChungFootball

3 ай бұрын

@@jd-mk3bz key word: “started”. The main % of his time is on pitchside, and his tik toks are just silly stuff.

@harryharvey8158

3 ай бұрын

@@HenryChungFootball and pitchside is generally watched by the tiktok/football twitter type of football fans. his style has stayed the same since he was mainly doing tiktok - shouting popular narratives louder than anybody else

People saying Salah and Saka are overrated don't watch Liverpool or Arsenal. 😂😂😂😂

Tom defo rates players like Zaha more thna Salah because they are nicer on the eye.

@testadalord01432

3 ай бұрын

With their wasteful blind alley dribbling and high turnover 😂 I know the type

@DS-dw3pz

2 ай бұрын

Nah tbh Salah's also nicer on the ball than Zaha...Zaha's just doing the steps overs but doesn't really amount to anything... but Salah's definitely not the best winger in EPL history... Ronaldo and Hazard clears

Yes this concept was absolutely the best new thing on football daily.

@davidmurphy2388

2 ай бұрын

Football daily one wasn't full of retarded deliberate controversial takes

Tom and Patto would be sooo funny 😂

@ZacDjellabb

3 ай бұрын

One day!!

@benreed4957

3 ай бұрын

Please!

@anotherguy3082

3 ай бұрын

Dont think Pato would put up with him. At least with Sam when he chatted shite you knew he meant it. Tom just says whatever outrageous thing will get him the most clicks. Hes a fame whore

@fugaziishime

3 ай бұрын

The scenes will be immaculate.

@Prime1Wunna

3 ай бұрын

😂😂😂 that’s an all timer

Tom talking about Salah gave me brain damage 🤣

The only thing I've been hearing for the last three months is that Saka is overrated and I get it every person that says he's better than Salah is just wrong. But still this man is 22, he already hit double digits in both goals and assists in a 'bad' season (all comp). And he has been doing this for a relatively long period of time.

@hello7032

3 ай бұрын

Yeah I think folks gotta keep in mind that it’s proportional to the praise and hype they receive. Saka is terrific but he’s not THE world beater that he’s made to be-overrated. If that makes sense

@THEWalrus271

3 ай бұрын

He’s well overrated

@johanhalvarsson2148

3 ай бұрын

One should also look into what country the players get rated from. In England and english press, Saka is overrated. That goes down in other countries. If Salah was english he'd probably be overrated in english media too but I think he's probably rated just about correctly. Outside Egypt I'd wager.

@lukeyduke8877

3 ай бұрын

Lmfao hes well overrated, he’s bang average

@oscarjenkins7505

2 ай бұрын

Fr. I’d still lean towards overrated rather than underrated, just because I don’t think he’s either, but he was incredibly disrespected in this video. Last season, he was world class and in everyone’s team of the year. The fact that his “terrible form” is still over 10 goals 10 assists proves his quality. He’s still nowhere near Salah’s level and was massively overrated last year, tho. The agenda some players get against them is crazy.

Team talk 2.0 love it Zac keep up the good work.

Saka has got a goal involvement each game on average whilst looking lackluster at 22. He's ridiculous...

@Smith89123

2 ай бұрын

He wouldn’t have half them stats back in the 90’s or 00’s. Defending these days is awful on every level.

@IrishGuysScarf

2 ай бұрын

@@Smith89123Always moving the goalposts “he wouldn’t do it here, he wouldn’t do it there” yet he does it. You’re literally having to bring up different eras to discount what Saka does…

@ACE360x

2 ай бұрын

@@Smith89123 Tell me you understand ball without telling me you don't understand ball. Wanna justify how defending is worse? Is it because they're smaller as I doubt that.

@A.0G.

2 ай бұрын

No he doesn’t you’ve just completely made that up 😂🤣🤦‍♂️

@IrishGuysScarf

2 ай бұрын

@@A.0G. He has 29 goal involvements in 34 appearances, so he’s not far off.

Love seeing some new style of videos! Keep it up Zac

@ZacDjellabb

3 ай бұрын

Thanks mate! Appreciate that

Thanks for the content Zac, it is massively appreciated. Wishing your channel all the growth it deserves, keep up the great work ❤

Love to see you doing videos and love that a couple of the guys from FD are doing content with you. Hope the rest of the crew jump ship and join you here.

Please don’t let Tom back, he doesn’t know football, he only has a career in the space because he baits reactions. That’s so obvious, especially around people who make sense

@EliCoolio317

3 ай бұрын

Rory Jennings seemed reasonable compared to this man.

@killedbydeath1362

3 ай бұрын

He reminds me of american alt-right political grifters on social media who have no backbone, no conviction, just baiting people with outrage in order to mass views.

@LB-xw5ks

3 ай бұрын

well seems like baiting reactions has worked again

This Tom dude has to interrupt everybody. Makes the show stale

This is such a cool idea of a video. would love to see more content like this. I would also love to see Reev on

Need to see Tom and PVS together😭

Zac the content you’re making at the moment is absolutely top drawer. Keep at it and the subscribers will come 🙏🏻

Never bring back Tom...

@willavison8842

3 ай бұрын

Seconded. Doesn’t fit with the others, too obnoxious.

@_trvekvlt

3 ай бұрын

if you dont like him click off

@zackjohn7492

3 ай бұрын

@@_trvekvltI think that’s the point. They didn’t like him commented and clicked off

@anotherguy3082

3 ай бұрын

​@@_trvekvlt Hes a grade A gobshite. Doubt he actually agrees with anything hes saying, but knows it gets clicks

@cooperharris4352

3 ай бұрын

It’s been 10 minutes and I can’t take it anymore. Definitely a tik tok creator

Well done Zac, glad your carrying on the good stuff from FD. Long May it continue.

The fact 5/6 are calling Saka overrated ironically proves that he’s underrated

@lukeyduke8877

3 ай бұрын

What a shit point

@yessi1585

2 ай бұрын

He’s absolutely not under rated

@oliver_burch11

2 ай бұрын

@@lukeyduke8877weird saka hater. take a shower

@georgecox9964

2 ай бұрын

The fact that your reaction to 5/6 people calling him overrated to justify a point that he’s underrated proves that he’s actually overrated. Do you see how this line of thinking is stupid lol

Keep it up Zac. Content leveling up. Did a great job presenting & officiating. Enjoyed this video very much

Big fan of this content Zac, combining Football Daily vibes with some good parts of football youtube is a lot of fun and great football content

Klopp over Wenger is ridiculous 💀 Wenger revolutionised football in the premier league let alone Arsenal, and won 3x the prems Klopp did. 1 UCL doesn’t make up for 2 premier leagues and what wenger has done outside of trophies

@q3x242

2 ай бұрын

kloop to be fair also won 2 bundesliga at dourtmund and took them to the ucl final.

@marko9463

2 ай бұрын

1 Ucl does make up 2 prems and lets not act like klopp didn’t introduce gegenpress to the prem, and the fullback meta. Klopps also had less time.

@antoniodiamonte3424

2 ай бұрын

@@marko9463 U are crazy if u think klopp is tactically anywhere near wenger. The guy made top 4 pretty much his whole career. Trophies with it, invincible. Liquid football. And the teams he mad top 2 top3 and top 4's with in the latter stages of his career. They would be borderline bottom under klopp.

@benmcinerny8881

2 ай бұрын

@@antoniodiamonte3424 much much much easier league, couldnt do it in europe with the best team itw. Hes nowhere near klopp

@marko9463

2 ай бұрын

@@antoniodiamonte3424 I know klopp has never gone invinvible but he was 1cm from being invincible, two wins from a quad, has also consistently finished top 4 only exceptions being injury plagued seasons. Battle against theninfinite wealth of a saudi billionaire and a russian oligarch. Manage to hit 90+ points on multiple occasions. Is also able to adapt his team well as time passes.

Fair play Zac, keeping the FD content alive despite the circumstances. All the best mate 🤝🏽

Perfect representation of how underrated Saka is.

@acegh0st

2 ай бұрын

Haha ikr? Point was proven by this very video 😂

@harrishabib3795

Ай бұрын

Some of the worst tales I’ve ever seen. How are these people paid to talk about football

I like how Zac left FD and basically took all their video formats with him. Good on him

@Bickle121

3 ай бұрын

And is making shitty tik tok level content with these clowns.

@Muzza858

3 ай бұрын

It shows who was behind a lot of everything that was happening at FD near the end of his run, which was my favourite run of watching the channel.

@Bickle121

3 ай бұрын

@@Muzza858 zac is a clown lol

So glad Team Talk has been revived in a better format! Good on you, best of luck!

This is pure chaos. I'm so here for it

This was amazing, so entertaining

Tom's ball knowledge is crime at this point. I'm a liverpool fan and Salah is one of two or three players that made this liverpool side victorious for the last 6 to 7 years. We're talking about an all timer, Africs best player ever and PL best RW. He was a team that broke a 30yrs old curse and win the Ucl in a same calender. If not Real Madrid & Man city. We would take about; 3 Pl winner, 3 Ucl winner, Ballondor winner, triple winner & Quadriple winner and so many others. There was a times he was the best player in the world and messi version of the pl when it comes to pure talent. At the time of speaking he is still performing at the top level of this game. He is so under rated that some people gonna argue that he wouldnt make liverpool all time XI which is mental. As a liverpool fan i'm sure that if Mo stays 3 more years he come down BEST LIVERPOOL PLAYER OF ALL TIME.

This is definitely the best style of video in my opinion as long as the guests aren’t interrupting eachother which happens on a lot of other channels I’m glad they let eachother speak

This was a great video idea. Even if I thought some takes were a bit too hot and a bit sensationalist, I really enjoyed the format

Great concept zakky

Yes lad great content

Banging video Zac

The disrespect to Saka is just ignorance at this point. He’s simply one of the top young attackers in the world

I love how badly the Saka opinions have aged since this vid, he's obviously world class

@silvio25432

2 ай бұрын

Facts. He’s supposedly having his ‘worst season’ in a while and has a higher G/A than the ‘English wonderkids’ Foden and Palmer.

@IrishGuysScarf

2 ай бұрын

@@silvio25432Keep in mind, Foden and Palmer are having “great” seasons, yet Saka is beating them with his “bad” season.

@silvio25432

2 ай бұрын

@@IrishGuysScarf exactly, for whatever reason I think people have an agenda against Saka, maybe because he’s an Arsenal player

@kevintheman4408

2 ай бұрын

Exactly

Great format here mate, hopefully with some returning guests the chemistry and banter will get better and better

Fantastic video

I missed these "team talk" kind of videos. plus the knockout thing is refreshing and interesting. Zac is killing it fr

Its amazing how riled Arsenal get everyone. Saka Overrated, Wenger bottom of the Manager list and Havertz worst signing? Have a word.

Suarez was there 3 years not a year and a half he also won a league cup and he was a prolific striker just he used to take 30 yard shots and try and log the keeper every game but chances that he needed to tuck away 9/10 he would score

@dermotcoakley2206

2 ай бұрын

And the question wasn’t rate these players in the Prem. so Suarez time in Barca needs to be counted. He out scored the two best players in the world Messi and Ronaldo. Suarez need to be a lot higher on those lists.

Aguero in 6th behind Kane despite having actually won league titles, whilst the latter hasn't come close once to winning one. Joke

Buvey saying Saka isn't better than Ray Parlour, is world class analysis

Need to sort out the keyword selection on this video mate. Saw this on Tik Tok and couldn’t find this when typing in just Rory and James’ names. Best to get the bigger influencers faces in the thumbnail also for more views. Keep it up cos this is a great video!

Aguero not being top 3 just proves how underrated that man is, injuries every season, scored 25 goals a season, carried city for 10 years, iconic moments, literally a full generation of people defenders would say they feared aguero, all times of goals and his play making too is so underrated

8:32 Buvey looks like he’s auditioning for his prison mugshot!

Yes this is the content I want!

Looking back on it this is hilarious

Class this

Thought henners argued his point well harsh for one point😂

James running circles around Rory and Tom at the end was great

YES ZAC! Love this!

I really liked Tom being in the vedio, there should always be atleast one guy who has unpopular opinions, it's good for the content and also if everyone just agrees to everything, what's the point?

these six as a group are class - would love some more with this bunch even if the ball knowledge is abysmal from most of them hahaha

I like how Saka is 'overrated' because he doesnt do what a Prime Salah is doing. Salah was no where near the player Saka was at 21/22. Yes, Vini Jr is probably the best RW in the game today at a similar age - and that puts Saka what, 2nd best RW for his age group? Pretty blooming good. Saka also plays a in a system where Arteta requires certain things of him, something Carlo doesnt do to Vini as Carlo has said he basically lets his players flow and hes just there to control vibes.

Just wanted to bring up the fact that James said Saka had the same amount of goals as Salah last season. Salah had 30 (1 every 143 mins) Saka had 15 (1 every 247 mins). Absolutely embarrassing.

@testadalord01432

3 ай бұрын

Rare Alcott howler

@mitchgraham3882

3 ай бұрын

In the league Saka played 3,191 Minutes... Salah played 3,294. The part you should have had a problem with is the goals argument as salah scored 5 more. He did attempt almost 50 more shots though. I think you guys need to calm down as I dont even think James is trying to argue is saka better but if saka is hitting near salah and you consider salah WC then what seperates saka from being WC.

@user-ro9jr7jt3p

2 ай бұрын

@@mitchgraham3882 attempts and getting in position just makes it all the better, it's not like salah is in a position to always receive feed assists, he's the one who feeds. Also tfym WC? Egypt qualified under 5 times and one of them was under Salah while England is pretty much always a free shot at the WC. This is why we call the man underrated

@mitchgraham3882

2 ай бұрын

@@user-ro9jr7jt3p WC= world class not World Cup. Although I agree more attempts doesn’t mean worse I was using it as an argument against saka having more opportunities due to playing and getting more chances last year. When you read my reply try and read the tweet I’m replying to for context, could help.

@user-ro9jr7jt3p

2 ай бұрын

@@mitchgraham3882 oh my b I was reading it on the fly and I never saw WC used as world class, will keep in my mind from now on

If this video proves anything it's that Saka is super underrated by general football fans, but these guys have it in their head because their Arsenal mates rate Saka he has to be overrated.

Love the content! Keep up the good work! But a couple of the takes were pretty shocking.. I’m a Chelsea fan and I have to agree Salah is just an all time great.

In retrospect Rory and Tom saying Havertz is the worst signing of the season is a joke😂even caicedo is a worse signing who’s made way less impact…

Crazy how Havertz will end the season with 10+ league goals from midfield, bar the big games he’s played striker which we won

Love to see Jim on here , get flav on too

Loved the vid, constructive criticism have fewer options on the ranking ones

Love the lineup

@ZacDjellabb

3 ай бұрын

Thanks man!

I'm with you here, Henry. Klopp "only" won 2 league titles because he played against the best manager and team of all time. If it weren't for Pep, Klopp would've wipped the PL with an all-time high quality of managers. Sir Alex was incredible and is certantly in the conversation, but Klopp is surely clear of Mourinho and Wenger, and is up there with GOATs.

@testadalord01432

3 ай бұрын

Throw Klopp and his team into any Prem season and he walks it like Ancelotti in 2010

@aenz1268

2 ай бұрын

I don't think that logic works. Mourinho and Wenger had to compete with Ferguson's Man United the same way Klopp has had Guardiola to contend with.

The one good argument you could make with putting Klopp over Ferguson is that Ferguson's best ever season (after over 20 years in the Prem) has been 92 pts. Klopp has reached or surpassed that THREE TIMES in the last 8 seasons. He should have more Premier Leagues than he does, but Man City have been too dominant. Ferguson, on the other hand, has won the PL during a 75-point season.

we uppppp @ghost

Wait a minute is this my favourite football KZreads all in one video

I’m honestly cannot remember a point that Tom has made that I have agreed with. He is listened to as he shouted the loudest and doesn’t let others speak to prove his points wrong and is just all round a bit of a mug

Klopp over Ferguson is wild. 😂😂😂

@Ebamber3

Ай бұрын

Guardiola over Ferguson is wild it's not even close, quite frankly made me question the sanity of everyone on this video but Rory

The disrespect to Aguero is insane, 6th is absolutely criminal he is 2nd at worst, top goals per min, most hatrics, most goals against top 6, for a man argueing that goals are everything for sala James went straight back on that when talking about strikers, he is one of the best only rivaled by Henry, and rory putting drogba over aguero is criminal, big game player aguero had the most goals by a large margin against top 6 oposition, won city our first prem tital and was great in an unexperienced city side in the UCL.

Sheesh those havertz and saka shouts did not age well 😂😂😂

Listening to 6 brits debating about football is a great English lesson for non-native speakers lol Great video

I liked this new show Zac! Obviously it flows a lil worse than team talk cus the presenters don’t know each other as well, but I liked this! Pitch: Zac + the 4 voted out should vote for who they think is the winner, not just Zac!

Salah - moderately overrated Caicedo - chronically overrated Saka - moderately overrated

An interesting tidbit of information. There has only been three seasons in Pep's entire management career that he hasn't won. It has been Klopp each time that has usurped Pep. Twice with Dortmund and once with Liverpool.

Rory came across really well in this video. The fact that he had the best opinions according to me says a lot about the others' ball knowledge.

@DustyFC

2 ай бұрын

That's because he actually knows what he's talking about, the things he says for purely for a headline are obvious, but his football talk has never been awful.

The havertz shout is funny aswell 🤣

JLA was not having Tom's first takes, love it!

Best football content on KZread

Tom spot on with the top 6 strikers list

Bro is taking everything from FD...I love it

Aguero is so underrated..... he G/A againt big 6 is crazy good. he always score againts them...

I don’t even like havertz but buvey and Rory are way too committed to their hatred of him, he’s a bad signing but nowhere near the worst of the season

James just losing his mind with everyone’s Saka takes 😂

What is buvey on about with Havertz he was signed because we needed someone who can win aerial duels, his winning mentality, he’s a big game player and he wasn’t a replacement for Xhaka they play completely different positions as much as I do agree in saying Kai wasn’t a good summer signing he isn’t anywhere near as bad as Buvey said

James is the only one who used actual lock and not bias. Everyone else just went with “Twitter takes” since that’s the only way they get their videos to go viral

Kudos to Henry for standing up for Klopp! Arsenal fan here but Klopp having 7-8 yr reigns at 3 clubs and achieving great things against odds at all 3 is an insane achievement! That being said, SAF still tops the list by a mile. The Mourinho nostalgia needs to end.

@Prime1Wunna

3 ай бұрын

Overall career mourihno is still miles ahead of Klopp

@akshaym3129

3 ай бұрын

@@Prime1Wunna we're just comparing trophies at that point though.. Mourinho has taken top jobs everywhere.. Klopp has literally built teams from scratch everywhere he's been.. nothing takes away from inter and Porto achievement.. but they were still the top clubs in their respective leagues.. not to mention mourinhos second half has pretty much been failure after failure and leaving clubs in absolute disarray

Everybody’s talking about Tom’s salah take but klopp over Ferguson is unbelievable, you can’t come back from that.

James' opinion on Aguero is steeped in his internal hatred for City

I’d pay good money to see how hard Pats head would explode listening to tom 😂

Love to see Henry and JLA

Rory showing some great knowledge in this video. It feels like he either has the best knowledge in the room or the worst, and there’s never an inbetween. I think his manager ranking is spot on, too. Ferguson’s longevity just adds to why he’s the best. Just look how burnt out Klopp is after 10 years. Fergie did almost triple that and was successful the whole time. I do think the debate between him and Guardiola is closer than Rory makes it out to be, but there’s no way that Guardiola should be top on 4/5 boards. That’s pure recency bias. I think the other three are a level below Fergie and Pep, but for me, it comes down to Mourinho being a pure trophy winner, so he’s third. I think Wenger can be slightly overrated by some people, but his invincible season puts him instantly above Klopp for me. Klopp is a brilliant manager, but I think the fact that he’s faced Pep’s City team for so long has been a huge problem throughout his time at Liverpool. I really think that’s the thing stopping him from being above Wenger, and maybe even Mourinho. He’s just never quite been the best in the past 10 years.

@Nonmster

2 ай бұрын

Klopp hasn't had a break for 23 years and in this climate where managing is more hectic nowadays with more science, data, a compacter schedule, better rivals and with all of that he had to deal with MULTIPLE injury crises and the extra stress that comes with that, Klopp needing a break is justified. Guardiola has already taken 2 breaks but you don't hear people ever mention it when they talk about managers.