Can we talk about how the devs literally made Demo a tunneling killer

@goagulant9503

2 ай бұрын

How so?

@ScottJund

2 ай бұрын

@@goagulant9503he goes in tunnels

@wheystedmusic

2 ай бұрын

@@goagulant9503 his power is to make a tunnel and teleport through them 😂 (bum dum tis)

@goagulant9503

2 ай бұрын

@@ScottJund ohhhhhh haha thats clever lol that went right over my head

@MightyJabroni

2 ай бұрын

Xenomorph is an even greater tunneler, though.

This bubble you speak of sounds almost like some sort of radius that causes survivors to feel some form of terror when inside of it

@skopsi7539

2 ай бұрын

Like a spooky circle, or maybe a scary zone? Idk I feel like there should be a term for it.

@lapizcata6930

2 ай бұрын

Fear area?

@Muciatneh

2 ай бұрын

The fun zone

@TrueMiz

2 ай бұрын

Terror.... Territory...

@liptonpipton4135

2 ай бұрын

terror radius!!... ah

Tunneling is a hyper-aggressive strategy based on pure offensive play. The opposite strategy would be three genning, a slow, methodical pure defensive strategy. In a lot of games, pure aggression tends to decimate casual players (Zerg rushing in RTS games, burn aggro in MTG, king's gambit in chess, spamming in fighting games, ect). Against experienced players that are familiar with the strategy and are prepared to play against it, hyper aggression tends to cause the aggressive player to just burn out all their gas super early and then get wiped. It's not too different in DbD at all, the tunneler is playing super aggressive and hedging all of their bets on blitzing one player out. However, the strategy fails super hard if the team is prepared to deal with it by bringing altruistic perks and having good gen efficiency. It's a high risk, high reward strategy that is disproportionately rewarding due to how casual the playerbase is and the lack of a ranked ladder.

@rootobia

2 ай бұрын

I've never seen someone put it this way, I think that's actually the perfect way to describe it.

@Ben_of_Milam_Music

2 ай бұрын

@@rootobia I've read a lot of game design books lol, got plenty of useless knowledge on how to dissect and discuss games

@ttwosoap6679

2 ай бұрын

i hope to one day be able to articulate my thoughts like this

@Ben_of_Milam_Music

2 ай бұрын

@@ttwosoap6679 writing a lot helps. as you write, you can spot issues or flaws in your line of thinking and correct them. later when the subject comes up, all your thinking is already completed so you basically just reiterate your logic and conclusion instead of being forced to think of everything on the spot. it's all about preparation and conscious improvement, essentially

@samuellinn

2 ай бұрын

This actually makes so much sense

my big thing about tunneling is that when im hangin out with friends, tunneling just results in the most casual / less experienced players dying really quickly and just being bored or frustrated (or even just sad) waiting for us to move on -just for it to happen again. i never mind losing or getting 4k’d, even for hours at a time (it sucks but w/e as long as we get to play and have fun), it just creates really unpleasant situations and only *really* hurts casual players

@banan6216

Ай бұрын

This exactly. It's just not fun to go up against, even if we disregard the player getting tunneled, the rest of the team are basically stuck on gens for the whole game, which isn't fun. And they might be able to get chased, but most of the time that is only after the game is unwinnable.

@atomic3968

Ай бұрын

Hide

scoot judn,

@Irondragon1945

2 ай бұрын

Judge Jundy is my favourite nickname so far

@pistolmoth4198

2 ай бұрын

Scrotum Jaundice

@Jefrejtor

2 ай бұрын

He scootim

@missbelled6700

2 ай бұрын

@@Jefrejtor I'M SCOOTIN

@artimus4198

Ай бұрын

@@pistolmoth4198lmao jaundice is a wild nickname 😂

"I'm God's greatest soldier" -Scott Jund

@pistolmoth4198

2 ай бұрын

Scott Jund needs me to lead the revolution, I’m J-man’s top guy

@keltonschleyer6367

2 ай бұрын

Can confirm, he definitely said those words in that order.

@Upsetkiller456

2 ай бұрын

His name isn't Rick.

@KatyaAbc575

Ай бұрын

Rock, Soldier of God.

Where are these just "ok" survivors running the killer for 3-4 minutes, cause I don't see them in soloq.

@bmo7259

2 ай бұрын

*when they have the whole map open* when there isn't a gen they don't want to interupt, when there has been 0 pallets used an alright player can just predrop everything and last a long time, sure the a map will be empty but just predropping with distance can buy your 3-4 minutes. But most people don't just throw down everything as soon as they reach it, since most games go on longer than 4 minutes after that 1 chase everyone else is screwed

@aMissingPerson_

Ай бұрын

@@bmo7259 predropping doesn't work in soloq because gens aren't done efficiently.

@edward222100

Ай бұрын

theres a huge skill difference gap in survivors because of how casual the community is. A lot of players just play to lose and theyre fine with that. If you want to actually progress in dbd you need friends

@yomama2376

Ай бұрын

I think im “ok” and probably most i have lasted recently is 90-100 seconds in chase (i know because my off the record ran out). i have like 400-ish hrs.

@edward222100

Ай бұрын

@@yomama2376 youre above average

I've heard people call the "tunneling two people" strat "Ping-Ponging"

@swatson5699

2 ай бұрын

Killers don’t realize how much time they waste dealing with Off The Record and DS. Ping Ponging in public matches is insanely strong.

I’ve never played this game to be “optimal” and honestly quit it when that’s all I saw people doing. I played killer with some respect to survivors because, they’re also players. They’re people who likely also just got off work and wanna have some fun before going to bed. Yeah I lose a ton of matches because of this, but I often feel worse if I win by being a jackass. If I only find the same person who just got unhooked, I either walk away or down them if they get in my way purposely. I always try to go after more than one player the match, and do try and take it easy on one who I notice is sufficiently less skilled than me in the game. And yeah I know the running joke, “Nobody plays DBD to have fun”. But it’s simply not true, and to me I can’t have fun if I don’t respect my opponent. Cause I’m always seeing that it’s another person playing behind that character, and they probably don’t want to be getting tunneled or camped, much like how I wouldn’t want to be.

@krypto8881

2 ай бұрын

its kinda a shame but yea people want to play as optimal as possible which tbf its kinda human nature to do things as efficient as possible its causes ppl to lose sight of why theyre playing the game in the first place which is to have fun and unwind from a long day at work or just a stressful day in general

@sherif7491

2 ай бұрын

This mindset will get u to lose and get tea bagged at the exit gate

@kitanat9944

2 ай бұрын

That’s a great mindset and I think similarly

@MrVIrginiaLUV

2 ай бұрын

People who just got off work, blowing off steam, shouldnt care about losing in DBD. It's weird for someone who is playing casually, to expect wins against folks who are actually playing to win. If I get on as Killer to casually play and get blood points for a specific character, I'm not concerned with winning. I'm chillin. Casual players shouldn't expect wins if they play casual.

@MrVIrginiaLUV

2 ай бұрын

​@@krypto8881On the other hand, some folks have fun when they actually win. Ever heard of organized sports. You think all of those folks are there JUST for fun? 😂😂😂

There are so many killers that will just ignore you doing gens within 16~ meters of them to tunnel someone, then complain about genrushing in post game chat, it is actual insanity behavior. Like if they just took 2 seconds to pressure you off that gen, you might miss a skill check, you might call out that the killer has gone on you, making the guy who was being tunneled stop and heal in an unsafe area where they can be interrupted, etc., basically what you were trying to say with the killer having a "bubble" of influence.

@djdhddshshs9764

2 ай бұрын

This is why I love Artist so much, I can pressure survivors while still tunneling the weak link hell in some cases I can proc the bt far away and come in for the m1.

@sherif7491

2 ай бұрын

The strategy u mentioned ain't as effective as tunneling since someone can just fix the gen again after the killer leave and the anti 3 gen thing that for some reason work all match blocking the gen from u

@gamerboy218

2 ай бұрын

Alright, but let's look at this same scenario from the other POV. The killer leaves the person they're tunneling to chase you. You leave the gen and call out the killer is now on you. So what? Your friend hops back on the gen you were just chased off. Now not only is the gen being done at the same rate, but the killer is losing the pressure of getting someone out. And who's to say the person being tunneled doesn't just hop onto the gen themself soon as they drop chase? Since they know they're now safe. Or maybe they're running Resil so they can actually get the gen done faster Tunneling sucks for everyone and feels bad for both sides. As a killer main, sure I've had to tunnel sometimes and hate very minute of it. But it is a viable strategy, getting one person out the absolute fastest does tip the match in your favor. And sometimes is the only thing a killer can do if they want to perform well, outside of completely throwing the game. Otz has said this and many other DBD youtubers have said this, and there's never going to really be a good way to address it. But there is a difference between choosing the best available strategy to play well in your current situation, and then being completely toxic and tunneling right at the start of the game. Killers need to be incentivized to roam and engage with chase but sometimes it feels like you're being punished for doing exactly that. A lot of killer tunneling is from necessity not exactly malice IE: 4 man survivor squad plays survivor strong map offering against a low tier meme build killer. Unless you throw you may have to play dirty. That's not malice to spite a 4 stack, that's adapting to a team well above your power level in that situation. Granted, this doesn't cover the killers that do engage in this to be toxic but the majority do just wanna run around and have fun like the survivors. The toxic base is always going to be the louder but smaller majority of players

@evan5102

2 ай бұрын

​@@gamerboy218this every single bit of this is facts tunneling sucks but it's a viable strat sadly I've gotten tunneled out of the game many times but I don't get upset yea it sucks that I barely got to play the game but from the killers pov you gotta get rid of the weakest link to add pressure

@mckookie2967

2 ай бұрын

​same with Unknown lol, especially with vanishing box

I really try not to intentionally tunnel but bad players that are easy to down also tend to make bad decisions and be easy to down consecutively. If someone with zero deadhard gets unhooked then just works on a gen in front of me like...obviously they're just gonna die and gens will be 25% slower from then on

@flyingdutchman8399

2 ай бұрын

while this is true it only leads towards mediocre skill on your part, true it is fun to win matches and the most effective thing on a public match is to tunnel out the noob with 50 hrs in the game and easily win by that point, you are not only getting a false reality of "im good at this game" , you are also idiotizing your brain more and more expecting dumb strategies to work because you are executing them on dumb players, so when you actually face the one team thats doesnt have 4 monkeys the completely stomp you and you start ranting about game balance and blabla.. because you are not used , take a look for example tru3ta1ent he is so decieved by his own mind that he is good that when he loses he refuses to acknowledge that they played better than him, he will always find and excuse or something to blame above his lack of skill and macro. Its sad

@siennas254

2 ай бұрын

@@flyingdutchman8399Yeah but I'm not trying to be the best dbd player ever so who cares, first find is first find at that point

@paradiseyt4275

2 ай бұрын

@@flyingdutchman8399 they're talking about situations like if someone who just got unhooked for some reason decides to bodyblock for the unhooker (i know it sounds insane but it happens) where they're putting themselves in harms way for no real purpose. not even otzdarva would ignore a survivor just standing in front of him, we're at least gonna give em a little whack to let them know they're not supposed to do that

@usedhalfcart

2 ай бұрын

@@flyingdutchman8399but its their fault for fucking up in the first place. its always the smartest to punish a survivors mistake as it can lead to snowballs. giving them chances is totally up to you but i rarely do it unless a survivor killed themselves early.

@matthenley3886

2 ай бұрын

@@siennas254If someone gets unhooked and you happen to find them on a gen after I don’t really think that’s tunneling. A tunnelling killer won’t be checking gens to find you, they’ll be coming for you straight after unhooking.

Tunneling is really killer dependent. Someone like a Nurse, Spirit, Blight can tunnel all they want and face little repercussion because their time to down is so quick. Yet someone like Myers, Ghostface, or Legion have no tools to down quickly and have more drawbacks to tunneling.

@JH-dr4xo

2 ай бұрын

Myers and Ghostface do have tools to down quickly though

@derrian6969

2 ай бұрын

​@@JH-dr4xo In a dead zones, every killers have tools to down people. OP is speaking about deadzones.

@JakeobE

2 ай бұрын

@@derrian6969 Stealth killers with one shots definitely can down anywhere, not just deadzones. OP is actually saying their powers don't mean anything to tunneling, where the survivor is already injured and likely aware of them coming back.

@connork9745

2 ай бұрын

@@JH-dr4xo Myers and Ghostface have nothing on Blight or Nurse Blight can catch survivors and force resource wastage like pallets in the same time it takes Ghostface or Myers force a pallet optionally get stunned and lead to the next loop When you play Blight or Nurse your not fighting the survivors your fighting yourself

@GG-kn2se

2 ай бұрын

“No tools to down quickly” brother they are 1 hit off hook

Spreading pressure seems like such a fundamental simple concept in a 1v4 game. I suck at this game and rarely play it, but even while stoned I'll still have the thought "oh, I should check on other shit and stab other people".

I honestly feel like people saying no are just trying to trick killers into not doing it when it genuinely is the best thing you can do

@atrozzorta9602

2 ай бұрын

OMG someone else that noticed this!!!! Thank you so much for existing and commenting this, was starting to feel alone. Copy paste from another comment: "I'd say it's more likely that survivor mains said no because that would invalidate all the whining they have done for years, and would incentivize and encourage more killers to tunnel if they admitted tunneling was the best strategy for killers. PLUS a lot of survivor mains have never touched killer and the couple times they have they have been against babies which anyone with the ability to move their killer and attack will automatically win."

@dodang_9147

2 ай бұрын

Agree, Tunneling is strongest strategy in the game for killer by far. full stop.

@arsoul3591

2 ай бұрын

Tell us you're garbage at killer without telling us you're garbage at killer lol, I had like 1500 hours in Billy alone before he was buffed and was able to win at least 80% of my games without tunneling, even actively avoiding it. Get better.

@atrozzorta9602

2 ай бұрын

@@arsoul3591 Tell us you're garbage at killer without telling us you're garbage at killer lol, I had like 127389719283700 hours in Billy alone before he was buffed and was able to win at least 120% of my games without tunneling, even actively avoiding it. Get better.

@arsoul3591

2 ай бұрын

@@atrozzorta9602 good bot

I also find it funny when a killer brings Pain Res, Grim Embrace, etc. but then proceeds to tunnel 1 person out of the game immediately. Like, they're working against their perks and diminishing the value they get from them lol. Great talking points, Scott!

@inmate92

2 ай бұрын

Yeah because some people in this game just tunnel - no matter what perks they bring. It often seems like they've googled "strongest killer perks dbd" and just went by it.

@zello4075

2 ай бұрын

if you tunnel with these perks and it goes well, lets say with 2 gens then you get huge value with strong pressure with the remaining 3 survivors having their stacks intact

@JKash7411

2 ай бұрын

@@zello4075 totally fair! I've definitely seen it go both ways (1k only from wasted perks or a 4k from huge value). I think it just goes back to Scott's point about not going in with that being your automatic strategy and to be more thoughtful/adjust based on what's going on in the game

@WutTheDeuceGaming

2 ай бұрын

this scenario isn't entirely true if the killer continuously hooks the tunneled player on a Pain Res hook. This is one of those perks that works extremely well with a tunneling playstyle.

@garasb660

2 ай бұрын

@@WutTheDeuceGamingYou do know pain res only works once per person right? So hooking the same guy on it does not work well. But if you get them out efficiently, you'll still have 3 more stacks of it if you put the other 3 on one

I hate when my bad teammates insta-unhook me, and the killer decides to punish me by tunneling.

@muysli.y1855

2 ай бұрын

Or Distortion runner

@mckenzieschmitt2841

2 ай бұрын

Nah. I then hard tunnel THEM bc they gotta pay. Like hello if you just give me a fucking chance, I damn near jog away from the hook. The one thing that will turn me toxic fast as fuck as killer. Are people screwing their teammates.

@WutTheDeuceGaming

2 ай бұрын

bit of advice, not saying you do it or not, but DO NOT bodyblock off of hook. This will all but guarantee killers will go after you because you're preventing them from chasing the unhooker.

@Sprachitektur

Ай бұрын

@@WutTheDeuceGaming often the speedboost from hit might make it harder than he just walking behind you and waiting for endurance to run out

@TheGoldenBoo

Ай бұрын

Nah, you see, I'm punishing *them* by tunneling you. That's just evil 101, kid; you wanna hurt somebody, indirect targeting is more effective than direct targeting. Hurt the people they love. That's where their real tender spots are. I'm half-joking. Sometimes I feel like survivors don't understand how bad their unhook timing is, and maybe they'll feel worse knowing they farmed their friend than sacrificing themselves. There are also times where I'll purposefully not tunnel because I feel bad for the survivor. Very rarely, there are even matches where I let survivors go because I feel bad for them. Really just kinda depends on the mood I'm in. Same goes for whether I give hatch or not.

It kinda depends. Just hooked a surv, looked around for a bit, and realized none of them went for a save? Going back to confirm a hook state isn't a bad option, they have to take some hits or a down, or one of their guys is dying.

@jonathanbelcourt1208

2 ай бұрын

I kind of disagree. If no one is going for save within 15-20 seconds, gens are flying. By looking around do you mean proxying the hook? If so, its just counterproductive to wait for unhook. People will be on gens regardless. It'd be more worthwhile to apply pressure elsewhere. The scenario I see this working is mid game, and there are multiple injured survivors. They would be forced to use time to heal, THEN have to go for unhook. By then its almost guaranteed you will get a trade from it

@flyingdutchman8399

2 ай бұрын

thats why camping is so effective on public matches, if you take a look around and dont see anybody at comp or not even comp... just vs decent players and you turn back to confirm the 2nd stage not only you are getting 2+ gens done, the guy is going to sit on that hook for other 60s and they are going to trade at the last second of his hook time so they finish all gens and leave.... while in public matches same scenario you take a look around see no one because they are doing archives, hiding, afk, being stupid, being noobs etc.. and then suddenly some random meg will appear in your face and trade you a hook while no one was doing anything.. so yeah, it works only vs monkeys you see

@zxzolfo4114

2 ай бұрын

Per se this is not tunneling, it is tunneling only when the guy IS saved and you ignore everyone to chase him again.

@Dekmakinson9

2 ай бұрын

@@jonathanbelcourt1208it’s far too much of a generalization, whether or not this is the correct play depends on killer perks and add ons, which all drastically change decisions, imo if you have better mobility then you can go back to ensure a 2nd hook state/kill the unhooker. However It’s most likely that you just finish finding a new survivor since youve gathered info and likely can find one in less time than walking back to the hook.

@jonathanbelcourt1208

2 ай бұрын

@@Dekmakinson9 If you are playing a high mobility killer, there is no reason to stay near hook or go back to hook unless: you see someone close, you cant find anyone else to chase, or they insta save. If there is a high progress gen close, then I understand that. Otherwise its kind of a waste of time

I wish the game rewarded killers for the number of unique hooks instead of out right kills. Maybe make it so you get passive slowdown as you hook more and more unique survivors. You get heavily punished as killer if you hook 3-4 survivors twice rather than focusing on killing 1-2 survivors.

@yeetmcskeet9533

2 ай бұрын

I always liked the idea that survivors should get a very small debuff after 1 and more after 2 hooks bc it makes sense that someone whose been thrown on a meat hook is gonna be mangled and physically weaker even if they magically heal.

@sagexalcen4708

2 ай бұрын

That was a huge discussion some years ago. You can kind of blame the playerbase, both killer AND survivor, for it being kills over hooks. This is one of the few times I can't blame BHVR. They in this case just listened to their playerbase.

@cs1645

2 ай бұрын

@@yeetmcskeet9533 just want tunelling to be even easier lmao

@thedoomslayer5863

2 ай бұрын

​@@cs1645 spoken like a true nemesis main

@yeetmcskeet9533

2 ай бұрын

@@cs1645 I know you're butthurt bc you got tunneled today.

TL;DW: It depends, but it usually isn't in regular matches and it's unfun either way

@xxgamerz3136

2 ай бұрын

being tunneled is fun?? its your opportunity to single handily carry the whole match

@syn4621

2 ай бұрын

​@@xxgamerz3136 i know right. people say holding m1 on gens is boring and then complain when they get tunneled. it's so weird

@sorin_markov

2 ай бұрын

@@xxgamerz3136 Idk man, most people don't like dying 3 minutes into the match and never getting to do the objective

@zello4075

2 ай бұрын

@@sorin_markova good player can capitalize on being tunneled and make time for the rest of the time

@GG-kn2se

2 ай бұрын

Regular matches is killers aggressively tunnelling one person then acting all friendly afterwards because the win is guaranteed at that point

I think it depends on what kinda tunneling is being done, personally I only tunnel in certain situations. For example, if I try to go after the person that is unhooking and the unhooked surv is trying to take a hit, I'm gonna go for you cause you're throwing yourself at me. Another example, if it's endgame and I've got 1 surv hooked, I'm obviously gonna tunnel the unhooked surv cause I want the kill. The only tunneling I actually disagree with is tunneling from the start of the game or tunneling someone straight off hook, I find those the most aggravating/annoying forms of tunneling personally.

Your bubble explanation is why I love the Unknown so much. With his teleport, he can be everywhere. He can drop a chase to interrupt gen progress somewhere else within a matter of seconds.

I love running Reassurance and OTR. They’re amazing perks that only punish the killer if the camp or tunnel. If they go off and chase someone else, they get no value and everyone gets a chance to play a full match

People aren't going to answer that question honestly. Of course people are going to say that SOMETIMES tunneling isn't always optimal. It's like asking if you should eat fast food. Obviously people are going to say no, and yet, a hojillion people do it anyway, because it's the cheapest, most brainless, and easiest thing to do. A free, easy way to win with no good counterplay is served right up, invalidates the whole suite of altruism perks for both people, as well as all non-chase info perks, with tons of killer perks now that slow down the game passively, encourage hanging around the hook, and most work even better once someone's out. I'm of the opinion that tunneling is a symptom, and the real problem is camping, even proxy camping. If a killer isn't camping, the opportunity to tunnel and the cost and risk to do so (for non-mobility killers) is much more severe. Actually address camping in some way, and the opportunity to tunnel goes way down. This is also why old DS was such a good deterrent. It didn't actually really stop tunneling, but it felt AWFUL to be hit with, so people naturally tried to avoid that feeling, and I can't wait for it to come back, even though I think it's going to take a while because Reddit/Twitter/Forum killers are stubborn bastards and will keep trying to do the same shit, but now out of spite.

"best" is sort of a dodgy question. Most fun? strongest? Tunneling can be detrimental when done at bad times. If you know when to focus on a single survivor, it can make your matches much more consistent overall. It's just one tool in a killer's toolbox.

I've been watching your videos for years and you're always spot on in almost every regard in all discussions

i have found out that with the amount of people running distortion i am sometimes forced to tunnel because i just straight up cant fucking find anyone else but the one guy without distortion and then they just die at 3-4 gens

I get tunneled very often and it’s one of the main reasons I run this build: DS, DH, MFT and resilience. After looping the killer for 5 gens because I was getting tunneled they always have the audacity to say that my build is the only reason I looped them all game as if it wasn’t them giving my build value and getting punished for trying to tunnel. Killers now days are way too dependent on tunneling and camping it’s basically what 90% of my matches look like. And then they get mad when they get punished for tunneling and camping as if that was the way the devs intended the game to be played like.

The thing about tunneling is that idk why I often get paired with semi good players and what will happen is that the killer will tunnel them out of the game because they are not that good at looping which then leads to an un winnable match because even if we stick the gens it just isn’t enough time. It’s just not fun playing a game that you know for a fact you won’t be able to win.

just in time, im holding hostage a 3-gen and I needed to know if I should tunnel or not, thanks Scott!

It's an interesting discussion. As someone who has played the game over 2k hours about equally on both sides, it like most things comes down to the situation. Depending on how the mid-game is going I might feel the need to tunnel a person out by 5th, maybe even 4th hook, but otherwise I try to mix up targets for many of the reasons you mentioned.

~ tunneling is not subject of hatred or toxicity, is just a strategy in a videogame ~ we talking about tunneling, so is a great strategy if generators are 2 left or 3 you killing 1 survivor quick to comeback, and also you can get rid of decisive strike on survivors is not quite tunneling ( but it is value this way ) after this, you can chase another survivor ( if that survivor who used decisive strike it's on safe tiles is not worth, even he's not hooked yet, he's wasting your time ) on generator to keep pressuring them at beginning of game you don't need to tunnel, cuz you waste time with that survivor and then generators are done in meantime, you need to pressure generators and survivor's orientation, tunneling, slugging, camping are made when you're in good position to doing them

Tunnelling is the best strategy because when people say the other three players will just get gens done… that is rarely true in practice. People either don’t help and the tunnelling is successful too quickly, or they try and help and gens don’t get done. And often the person getting tunnelled knows it’s happening and give up, or dc. Most people aren’t gifted survivors players able to run killers to make the tunnel not worth the effort.

@Default_Claudette_Morrel

2 ай бұрын

This. I’ve seen ppl drop within 10-15 secs after

@kaib6998

2 ай бұрын

which makes the whole "I need to tunnel to have a chance against all these comp squads" even more absurd

Survivor: "Thank you for not tunneling me" Billy killer: "You're welcome". Survivor: "What was your build btw?" Billy killer: "Perkless with cracked bulb primer & Lery's offering" Survivor: "You beautiful bastard!"

scott black red green mana

When tunnelling u don’t have any pressure in general imo. Having a survivor on hook while chasing another and getting them hooked puts way more pressure on survivors

I appreciate the thoughts on this. I think you had some good points. But I would argue that all of your map and game knowledge isn’t wasted in a tunnel situation, if anything it helps. The better you get at the game, the easier it is to tunnel people. But I can appreciate the ending and how you put it, good stuff. You got a sub

I like this take a lot, and as a player who likes spreading the pain and unease in my games, I find those matches give me much more time than those if I get caught in a tough chase. It's more enjoyable, more creative and just feels like I use my brain more.

From my experience (as a survivor main) the tunneling is truly an issue because i'd say at least 50% (tbh this is almost EVERY game for me lately thus i've stopped playing) of the time 1 survivor spawn VERY close to the killer or the killer has Lethal Pursuer, and said survivor goes down almost instantly in the match, then someone will go unhook and even try to protect the person but get ignored and the person goes down again. At this point the other 2 players may have been smart and working on gens but in a case of random team mates it's a toss up, but after the 2nd down of the same player usually a 3rd or even 4th team mate will show up and try to help the tunneling. USUALLY this still fails and while still at 5 or by some miracle 4 gens someones already dead. Then the game is pretty much over because it's a 3v1 about 1 to 2 mins in.

Tunneling a survivor is the most efficient strategy if you have a build for it and there are many builds that allow you to tunnel and not lose half the gens. Also, that aurvivor may theoretically have the entite map to use in chase, but if you keep hooking them in deadzones or other disadvantageous spots for the survivor, it's really easy to get them out quickly.

TL;DR - Unless you're playing for money, beating people who are better than you because you tunnel one person out does nothing more than make your future games more difficult and proportionally less fun. I think tunnelling is the most "efficient" strategy in terms of optimally setup comp gameplay. But casually-speaking, its wildly varying. Now, in this you have to ask what is the definition of "best"? Like, best for winning the game or best for having enjoyable, dynamic gameplay where players feel like they have agency? I'm glad scott mentions at 8:00 that the reason why tunneling is so prolific in comp is because of restrictions in what's allowed in order to balance the game. When you're talking random dbd lobbies where you just: click ready and hope the people you're against are bringing fun and interesting builds, bp offerings, playing solo, doing archives.... and NOT repeated 4 second chance perks, a clock-based comms, and a map offering.... its INCREDIBLY imbalanced. I stopped taking dbd seriously a long time ago and I recognized that I liked chases more than kicking gens and camping. And tryharding meant literally nothing more than my future games being harder against better players. So I started maining Clown and running fun builds to the point where I play for hooks and average 2.8 kills, 7.5 hooks, and generally enjoy most of my games. That being said, the gentleman's agreement turns off for things like map offerings, clear and obvious bm, or saboing my first hook lol. But in that case I just turn the tryhard mode on and play like that for a game because its justified that the other players are playing to win. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, but I just move on and don't emotionally bring it into the next game because you have absolutely no idea about the mindset, builds, items, offerings, or skill level of your opponents.

Survivor's optimal play is to split 3 gens at the same time, assuming Killer is occupied chasing the 4th Survivor. That's 90 seconds to pop 3 gens. Another 90 seconds for 4th 5th & 6th gens. Killer no way can defend 2 gens with high progress when 4/5 gen done til exit powered. The sooner a survivor is out of the game, survivor gen efficiency is down drastically. Tunnelling the weakeast link is the best strat. Survivors dont need to be decent in chase to hold m1.

Before I watch this video any further to where Scott tells his opinion on why its so 50/50... I'm calling it on the difference between the MMR's. 50% said yes: At high MMR you really need 1 person out asap unless you want to get gen rushed (5mins or less)... the other 50% says no cause they are at low MMR.

@mckookie2967

2 ай бұрын

This.

@atrozzorta9602

2 ай бұрын

I'd say it's more likely that survivor mains said no because that would invalidate all the whining they have done for years, and would incentivize and encourage more killers to tunnel if they admitted tunneling was the best strategy for killers. PLUS a lot of survivor mains have never touched killer and the couple times they have they have been against babies which anyone with the ability to move their killer and attack will automatically win. But I do agree that MMR plays a big role in the discussion as well.

@Leaf__22

2 ай бұрын

Yeah no

@muysli.y1855

2 ай бұрын

It is not harder to tunnel at high mmr ? I think its the opposite its more effective against low surv So nope you are wrong if tunneling works then you are playing against decent Surv and not pro player

@mckenzieschmitt2841

2 ай бұрын

You get rushed bc you ignore gens

I encountered my first Tunnel-Brain Nemesis yesterday, so this is pretty timely. For whatever reason, guy picked me to be his target, but my teammates were smart about coordinating and I was able to keep him busy for about 3 gens, so everyone else escaped. I'm not normally a fan of teabagging at the exit gates, but that killer earned every mashed Shift key they gave him.

If I’m playing bubba and the survivor unhooks the immediate second I hook the person, I’m not tunneling, they just simply are brain dead and now I’m insidious camping them in basement until they can no longer have a will to live.

It depends. Can tunneling be really useful? In lower to mid MMR for sure works wonderfully. Higher MMR it might not go as planned. Usually whoever comes off the hook has 1. Experienced what kind of chaser the killer is. 2. Knows their tiles nearby to run to after taking the endurance hit. 3. Has an innate desire to not get immediately thrown back on the hook and will put their best chase on to slow the tunnel down. So essentially at an upper MMR it really doesn't work all the time to tunnel. Even if you get a quick down on the tunnel, there's the fair chance that there's an anti-tunnel perk to help them or a teammate with a plan to get them out of the killer's grasp. So go ahead and tunnel. Just don't complain that you're getting steamrolled by "comp squads" or "bully squads" because you're the one that cheesed your way to the big leagues and now you're realizing that strategy is only effective if you have your macro game sense in order.

Quick story of my experience in a hard match I was in the other day that I feel relates to some of the stuff you are mentioning in here. I recently went up against a sweaty team as the ghost face and it was a very enlightening experience for not only me but I think for them as well lol. Ima be real I only had 1 perk as I just got him and dont have a lot of other killers. I was going against a red level 100 (idk what that means) and 3 other ppl. Cant remember what ranks but ive been on a hard winning streak so im thinking it was a placement match or something because this was my hardest match yet. Anyways I only had 1 perk which I think it was im all ears or Merciless storm. 2 of them had decisive strikes, dead hard, an ability that let them break hooks, and deliverance. As well as forever flashlights. The other 2 survivors had a mix up of stealth and aura reading skills. Anyways these kids were really trying to be super time wasters. Crouch spamming right from the start to get me to chase and flash lighting every chance they can from pallets to pick-ups and hooks. You name it they were flashing it. I didnt mind mostly because they just.kept.taking.HITS. At first I chased for 30 seconds until I realized that they were good and thats what they wanted me to do. They WATNED me to tunnel them so that they could waste my time. So I looked for the other 2 that were on genies. I "tunneled" the other 2 all match while the 2 distractions tried everything they could to stop me. Which made genie progression take forever. And it was working. 30 minutes later with 1 gen left in the killer shack and I had only killed 1 of the gen rushers. I mean these kids didnt even try hiding from me. Breaking hooks right in front of me while in a dying state only to get swung on and get slugged. I feel like they didnt know what to do when I wouldnt fall for their baits lol. Eventually I got all 3 slugged on the ground by each other. Hooked 1, let another bleed out, and carried the last 1 to the hatch lol. Felt fuckin good. (: Tunneling and slugging got me the win but its because I did it on MY terms and not on theirs. :P

As someone who tends to play killer probably 20ish%more survivor I tend to ramp up or down how I play as I go and how the match progresses. Typically after an unhook if i go to contest it ill hit the saver if it the option is there, splitting pressure. If the unhooker dips and the poor hooked is there or runs to me im not gunna ingore them if the match is even or going in their favor. If the game is goin heavely in my favor, high hooks low gens i split up the hooks intentionally to give them and me a more time and less frustration.The few times ive gone out of my way to hard tunnel them, the survivors have me against the wall and 8 times out of 10 they all still get out. I think more often than not if there is a survivor that wants to be chased and I can tell they know what theyre doing Ill ignore them and focus on the other 3. Being tunneled fuckin sucks so unless the survivors are really pushing me to the brink. I do my best not to hard tunnel, i play solo q a lot so i dont have back up when the killer choose to do it to me. But I will casually tunnel if things align and they end up in my sights on more even footed games.

As someone who plays both sides equally, and doesn't really care how the other side feels about my choices in a video game (my objective isn't to entertain them, it's to either kill them or escape them)... The only real reason I say that tunneling someone out usually is detrimental and I tend to avoid it if possible nowadays, is strictly becuz Borrowed Time is base kit. If that change was never made, my opinion would be a resounding yes, becuz it's absurdly easy to do so at that point, and a 3v1 is easier than a 4v1. However, due to base kit BT, you first have to either hit them at hook to force the Endurance out (thus, giving them several seconds and a speed boost to boot, making them harder to tunnel), or you have to not hit anyone, chase the unhooked person for around 5-10 seconds without swinging (and heaven forbid they have Off the Record), then finally hit them - and in that time, you could have likely downed the unhooker, rather than the unhookee. *Especially* if you run Make Your Choice (which, in my opinion, is a pretty slept-on perk). Combine this with the perks people already like to run just to counter tunneling (Decisive Strike, Unbreakable in case you can't pick them up, other Survivors having Flashlights and/or Background Player+Breakout to make sure you can't tunnel them out)... It's just not worth it. Not to mention the various perks that *want* you to hook multiple people, not just one till death.... Grim Embrace, Friends Till The End, No Way Out... Hell, even killer powers like Legion's want all 4 survivors to be alive for as long as possible, to make their gameplan easier to achieve!

Focusing out a player early is a good idea but in certain instances it can be more beneficial than others. Focusing our a player can also force altruism which can tilt a team into doing things they shouldn’t. Opposite of this is doing what the survivors want to help them win.

The one thing that I want to add is that when it comes to tunneling in lower skill games is that the learning curve between survivor and killer are completely different. Factoring that in, I feel that tunneling is a bigger problem there. Tunneling is an easy to understand strategy that any killer can do (some better than others). It also easily lines up with the main objective for killers. One of the biggest cons it feels is that 'rolling the dice' on tunneling one surv is that you leave the other survs to their own devices. Problem is, surv killers dont always (my personal experience when I was starting out, rarely) fix gens, progressing the game. I feel that beginner survivors are very much so focused on hiding because they dont fully know how to interact with the killer and the purpose of getting chased. They'll hide when the killer is halfway across the map because 'they are listening to their instincts and trying to not die.' That of course will actually hurt their chances of surviving. Boiled down, DBD is an asymmetrical objective racing game but I think that is lost on the survivor side more so at the start. Typically from what I found, a beginner game with tunneling goes: Killer finds one person and hooks them, tunnels / camps them because they want a kill and thats the most straightforward way of getting one, other survivors hide because they are 'surviving,' barely any gen progress is made and that one player dies, making a comeback near impossible.

If you play a low mobility killer like Clown or Nemesis, tunneling is almost required to win against great SWFs. The main issue is that if you switch targets and choose not to tunnel, great survivors will communicate and pre-run away from you. Even if your macro sense (or information perks) tells you exactly where to go, by the time you arrive the survivor that was there will be far away, and holding W toward a safe tile. So, when you finally catch up with the other survivor, you have spent 30-45 seconds getting there and you still have to deal with a safe tile, except the survivor you are against is healthy and hasn't been hooked yet. You effectively ended up wasting tons of time for a worse target. I've notice you tend to favor killers with good mobility (Wraith, Billy, Demogorgon, Wesker, etc), so pre-running is not as big of a deal to you. But if you stick to say, playing Clown for a while, I strongly suspect you'd change your point of view about tunnelling.

When I play killer I'm just mindlessly wandering. I do tunnel on occasion except it's by complete accident because I can't ever remember who I've already hooked. My gameplay loop is stab a bunch of people, down someone, hook, wander away sometimes near gens until I find someone else, go for the unhooker unless I found someone else, repeat. I usually just go for the first person I see lmao

@norne9

2 ай бұрын

Same, i'm too dumb to keep track of hooks

@tanez778

2 ай бұрын

So basically the enitre part of macro management being lost if you tunnel does not exist even for your base gameplay. Woops. Head empty no thoughts

MMR absolutely does not separate babies. I watch them get tunneled out of the game every single game and then the killer wins.

The thing is, with everything you said, the assumption is that the other survivors are playing optimally. In reality, the other survivors often come to try and save their teammate and get off of gens themselves. This is true when I play usually, both while i’m playing survivor and killer

11:50 "if you don't tunnel, you ignore half of people's builds sometimes". Yes, but few players use DS and OTR, especially together. I am high MMR at Xenomorph and I rarely see an anti tunneling build unless it's a strong SWF and I can usually beat them anyway because Xeno is pretty darn strong and I play him pretty well. I definitely am more likely to tunnel if I sense it's a strong team, and even if they have anti tunneling perks it's still easier to beat than if I don't tunnel. If I don't tunnel a good swf then I will often get 0k with 8 hooks.

@ScottJund

2 ай бұрын

Its only rare because they nerfed DS. Once they buff it again you'll see it come back in full force, i guarantee it

@scottsurvival6960

2 ай бұрын

@@ScottJund I agree, but that's not the environment yet.

@syn4621

2 ай бұрын

i have doubts about everything you said in ur post

@scottsurvival6960

2 ай бұрын

@@syn4621 Thanks.

@ScottJund

2 ай бұрын

@@scottsurvival6960fair

Tunneling is a tool that killers have at their disposal. In certain situations, it's the best tool for the job, whereas in others it's like trying to use a screwdriver to drive in a nail. It might work, but its way less effective and you also might lose a lot in the process. There's other times where it's a viable strategy, but not required, and it's up to the killer to decide to tunnel or not. Imo its not a question of whether or not its effective, because each game is different and it's up to the killer to decide if it's the best strategy. If i had to say "is it the best strategy or not", id say no, because in most situations its not the best strategy

Just a quick question Is it still tunnelling if it the only survivor you see? for most of the game? Because if I can't tell where the other survivors are. I am just supposed to lose or not do well?

Also in this same vein I've heard multiple people complain about not being able to gain pips playing as killer. I've also noticed when these same people who complain about not getting pips are playing killer that they always tunnel the same survivor until death. If you look at the breakdown of how pips are gained hitting a survivor directly off hook loses you "points" towards that emblem. If you never kick gens or use gens perks you lose the points that go towards that emblem. If the survivors finish the gens while you are concentrating on that one person and open the door you lose points towards that emblem. The emblem systems is comprised of many small "micro-transactions" that win and lose you points depending on how you play so getting that one kill actually doesn't help you at all.

Most of the time I find when a killer is tunneling, the guy who does the first unhook will follow the killer around trying to get them to chase them instead so now you're pressuring 2 people with one chase and after the second unhook all 3 other survivors will start following you so now you're pressuring the whole team with a single chase and once it's over it's a 1v3 from there so you've pretty much won. If all 4 survivors play correctly and the person you're tunneling is half decent you'll lose, but 90% of the time in soloQ things just progressively fall apart after the first unhook happens and if you can get to that point with 2 or 3 gens left you've basically already won from getting a single hook state.

tunneling is like the room of requirement in harry potter. " If you have to ask, you'll never know. If you know, you only need to ask."

I completely agree, the smoothest tunnels present themselves when you're chasing others. Chef's kiss*

I think tunneling is the best strategy if incorporated well enough in gameplay. After you hook a person, go get the other survivors off gens, damage them and whatnot and shortly after the unhook go back and get them again. Of course a big part of it is how fast you can down them, but if done well it really can be devastating. One less survivor can really slow down the progress of a match. There are obviously some inconsistent factors like how good survivors are in chase, how often they're doing gens, your perks, the survivor's perks. Obviously purely tunneling without acknowledging other survivors is a bad idea, it's when you properly space it out with gen pressure when it's at its most deadly

tunneling is as viable a strat as any other: a great idea when appropriate. I think I only force tunnels when I'm trying to do a mori daily or something (and even then, I tend to try to let rancor do its thing passively). Otherwise, I tend to think of tunneling as "the obvious option"™ when you stumble upon two survivors and one you've hooked twice and is still injured vs the fresh one you've just now seen for the first time in the game. Like, of course I'm going to choose the easy target. There's all sorts of factors, but at this point we're just preachin' to the choir.

Sometimes it just occurs that I catch a survivor off guard who has already been hooked but then accusing of tunneling is a bit ridiculous as they had time to heal. Then I think they maybe would need to be more careful and stealthy rather than literally giving me a free sacrifice.

Scott, altough your analysis is vsry convincing, it highly disregards the unpredictable nature of survivor play (not perk choise or chase effectiveness) i've seen UNBELIEVABLE situations frequently in solo Q where tunelling won the killer the game because of the survivors macro game. I think for solo queue tunelling is the best for killer (maybe its because of the brazilian player base here idk).

@dimitricandeiracistaro4543

2 ай бұрын

I had a game on the artist's map once where i got chased by a blight for MINUTES but the game was extremely hard even after all the time tunelling cuz of my team. I constantly saw a sable that would crouch around the map and wander instead of doing gens, i also saw mikaelas doing that, i also say my 3 teams commit to the middle gen REFUSING to reset or heal, just get unhooked by me and run to the gen and die... I also got tunneled on the plague map, my team didnt take hits for me, but once i was being taken to the hook, 2 of them piled up to take hits, the killer had save the best for last and he downed both and hooked me🙃. So yeah, solo Q is hell and tunnelling will be the best strat more often than not.

@dimitricandeiracistaro4543

2 ай бұрын

Maybe I am seeing a static scenario by being a solo Q player too... Idk man, i just cant take it anymofe

@atrozzorta9602

2 ай бұрын

His analysis isn't very convincing though, he said a lot of shit without actually saying anything. He mentioned macro gameplay knowledge is better than his definition of that was "knowing where things are at the right time" which doesn't make any sense. He is one of MANY people that said getting into high MMR is insanely easy and everyone can do it, but now all of a sudden a casual player is completely incapable of making it to high MMR so they want "both sides of the argument". He talked about nothing while acting like he was talking about something. And if you want proof of that ask him if the game is survivor or killer sided because I guarantee you will get the same response, a whole lot of nothing explaining nothing, but in this video he said the game is massively survivor sided. 8:15 he says the comp players said killers would lose way more if there weren't all these restrictions to limit what survivors can do, but he will also tell you the game is balanced or slightly killer sided.

@fullnelson4986

2 ай бұрын

This Scott dude is a survivor shill and it shows @atrozzorta9602

@sevendaystocry2546

2 ай бұрын

he is virtue signalling to his survivor sided viewers@@atrozzorta9602

It's just a game and people usually don't play games to feel miserable or angry. Even if It's strong, It's also boring for both sides so... why use it. And as you said, you don't actually spread pressure when tunneling, you don't stop gens from flying, if you will choose wrong person with multiple second chances perks in high mmr - say goodbye to winning but congrats on being stubborn ♡ I understand it in comp setting when people are trying really hard to win, but why sweating dumb way if players are not toxic in pub? idk I play half-half, killer and surv and recently more killer side. I sometimes tunnel when person runs to me off the hook and blocks the way. As surv hard tunneling was annoying for me when I was a begginer in solo q, now when I know the loops It's almost funny/challenging. The more you play, the less you care.

It think it mostly depends on the strength of the tunneling killer. If your playing blight or nurse then it’s pretty much always the strongest choice.

I never tunnel (intentionally) but considering literally every comp killer does it I'm pretty sure that's just an automatic "yes"

Scott Spund

@demonslayer8451

2 ай бұрын

Quinton

To me tunneling is a tool. Strategy is more of how you use your tools (killer power, perk loadout, etc). Tunneling is a great tool to build pressure when used correctly, and unfortunately a shortcut to "victory" by bad killers when versing unaware survivors

i played 1,5 year ago bubba with facecamping strategy, and if you get your first down quite early, it was a 4 k guarantee. If the survivor played safe and i needed like 2 minutes after the start, it resulted in 2-3 kills. The 1 minute hook timer is really short if survivor dont bring perks to prolong it.

Personally, I used to play killer and survivor equally, now I play mainly survivor. When I used to play killer I wouldn't tunnel, but I would ignore survivors baiting me into chases (flashlight clicking/teabagging/moonwalking in front of me) as they most likely had chaser builds so I'd waste my time with a survivor that would most likely play at top level with minimal mistakes. I would get into chase and mentally keep count on if I needed to drop chase or a survivor was in too safe of loops/time wasters. I would target easier downs--like if I downed a Feng within 20 seconds of a chase if I saw the Feng again while I was in chase with another survivor I'd peel off and go for them. Getting rid of the weak links cause more pressure when you get rid of numbers in play. I think a big issue in DbD is psuedo-tunneling (false tunneling) as you mentioned Scott in a previous video. The unhooker re-immerses themselves and leaves the freshly unhooked person to deal with the killer again. I've literally seen killers pause and look around for the unhooker as in saying "give me something else to chase", they don't want to tunnel, but sometimes killers are forced to chase what they see. I've run in front of a freshly unhooked person when the unhooker goes back to immersion mode to take a hit and killers usually go onto me. Yeah, it sucks that the killer gets a free hit but at the same time, it keeps another survivor in play. Tunneling is situational, but when I see killers tunnel immediately off hook when the game just has begun (as in 4 gens still up and the first down happened

Hard tunneling has its strengths, mainly against people who aren't prepared for it and babies. But soft tunneling absolutely works wonders, but its also the worst thing to deal with if you aren't prepared for it as well or just don't like getting chased, which i have a personal feeling that alot if people don't like the chase.

Just a few things I felt were worth mentioning: -In most comp settings, any kill is worth points. Tunneling carries less downside risk in the average comp game because games can be "won" with only 2 kills. -Tunneling is not always the strongest strategy, but it is generally the safest. Even if you burn through every second chance in the game, players of relatively equal skill will see the survivor dead with 1-2 gens left. At that point the killer only needs one more down to force a tie. If you care about average kills or consolation prizes or whatever, it's very attractive. -People in the comments said "but winstreakers!" That's an inaccurate and misinformed point. There have been at least 5 instances of 100+ winstreaks (Hag, Wraith, Dredge, Singularity, Pinhead) where the primary strategy did not revolve around tunneling. Tunneling is, again, the safest play, but many killers have particular kits that give them stronger options. Plenty of streakers tunnel at 5 gens. Plenty also do not. -If you don't enjoy playing against tunnelers and want to punish them, bring anti-tunnel perks. Force the killer to down you instead of their tunnel target. That's it. GL.

I stated in my video when I talked about the game last year that gen rushing is just gonna be a thing. There’s nothing you can do about it on killer side other than trying to get around to all survivors cause if you only focus one and their decent, gens will always fly and ppl called me an asshole for saying that.

Are you a good guitar player Scott? I just started 3 weeks ago and (practicing maybe 10 hours a week at 48 years old) and I am seeing progress but very very little

Anymore I see a lot of people complain about tunnelling when one of two things happens occur: they get off the hook and bodyblock for their fully healthy friend (which to me if you do that you forefit not being tunnelled as now you've made it a matter of go for 2 health states vs 1) or I return to a hooked area after I get a hook elsewhere and I can't find their friend but I can find them due to grunts of pain. I would not consider either tunnelling as you've kind of forefitted your right to complain by saying "chase me" in the first one and are just being all suprised pikachu face about it and in the second one was just bad luck on your end I heard you and didn't see anyone else. It's also worth noting a lot of people who tunnel kind of only focus on one aspect of it. A lot of tunnellers only focus on that kill and that is what does them in. Effective tunnelling is you are in a spot that allows you to protect both the gens and punish for the unhook to ensure either the quick hook trade and then you can go into the tunnel on the freshly unhooked or you are using it to strategically place the new hook to better gen defend while being in a position to tunnel. Most tunnelling is bad tunnelling because people suck at it due to only focusing on one aspect. If someone is able to hook someone and still be protecting a 3 or 4 gen while being in position for the tunnel should the unhook come in. But that comes to hook strategy and gen positioning and the truth is both your average survivor and average killer will not think on that.

Yo, does queing as a p100 killer automatically put you into upper bracket mmr or is that just from match history?

@bmo7259

2 ай бұрын

mmr is based on individual killers, they all start at about the same baseline, and as you win more your mmr goes up, p100 doesn't nessisarly mean high mmr, if there is a terrible player who has just played a ton, they can be p100 but not high mmr

12:40 - Yeah, almost like a radius of terror...

The killers tunnel in most of my surv matches. When they tunnel the random without OTR, DH or DS its usually very effective and the random is dead on 4 gens. Its a combination of the surv getting tunneled not lasting long and rest of team are not effecient enough on gens. But sometimes the tunnel victim is a decent looper with OTR and the killer gets 1 or 2 kills max and the rest of the survs run out the door.

I usually play with a 2 man, but as of lately I got 2 more friends into the game so we all play together but because they're new and we're not they usually always get tunneled because they are easier targets, not even the best callouts or builds can save new players sometimes that said I do agree with most of Scott's objective opinion on this, also the disruption a killer gets from walking around is nuts my "new friends" turn feral when they hear the killers terror radius 😂

Scottomon Grundy

3:43 Scott is the Equalizer, confirmed

TL:DR yes if the survivor is the weakest link and has no anti-tunnel no if the survivor knows how to loop and possibly even anti-tunneling perks still unfun for both sides IMO

@Philscooper

2 ай бұрын

then theres also just equiping a tunneling build : STBFL, rapid brutality,

I would say currently most of my tunneling more just comes from my build having Friends to the End. So many times I hook someone, get the notification to chase someone new, go do the chase, get a down, hook the new person, and the game swaps me back to the first person.😅

@Reiner5200

2 ай бұрын

Does that give you their aura read at the first swap back? Or expose? In my experience it does neither on that first swap back to a previous person. Hook after that works.

@Specimin6

2 ай бұрын

@Reiner5200 So long as they dont have Distortion it works for me, but I also pair with Lethal

Very well said homie The only thing, I don't think what you said was subjective. There is truth to killers missing out on macro skills when they tunnel.

what you say its true, it's not effective, and lately it seems like people like otz and others think off the record is too strong a perk, because they rely so much on tunneling to win against certain people. even a recent 1947 blight win streak lost because 3 people brought anti tunnel perks, too many people rely on it, instead of map pressure

hardtunnelling where you go through all layers of antitunnelling perks is really detrimental unless you play comp where such things are strictly limited. best strategy is simply being conscious of your hooks and not spreading them. pingponging people (switching between 2-3 targets, trying to target a particular person after every other chase, etc) is probably the best strategy overall. you dont overcommit, but you set your priorities right.

The only way I've ever tunneled someone is if one person keeps coming to me cause they want the chase. So I end up running in to them until they are the first one out

Tunneling has always and will always be the best strategy to use against people that aren't exclusively comp level survivors specifically in a 4 man. Comp survivor 4 man > anything killer can do. Anything below that < tunneling killers will win, especially if running slowdown ontop of it.

@muysli.y1855

2 ай бұрын

Its a very effective against decent Surv, the better the Surv the harder to tunnel

I think the best way to play in a public match is to go for the weakest link as much as possible when it's convenient. If you go out of your way to tunnel 1 guy no matter what you're playing poorly but light tunneling is usually the best way to play. In a comp match hard-core tunneling is objectively the best way to play.

The main issue I have with tunneling is this. Tunneling is seen as not skillful regardless of the state of the match. So you as the kill still have all four survivors in the match 3 healthy and 1 injured. One of the heathy survivors is one a gen one in chase and one has unhooked the injured one at stage two. The smart play would be to hit the injured survivor cause you know the only protection they have is borrowed time applied. It considered unskillful to drop as killer the current chase on the healthy survivor and go for the injured. Where the intent is applying pressure and slow the game down with only 3 people still alive.

"Brainless Unga Bunga Tunneling" is the type that's been going on for almost 8 months now. And it's taking the fun out of DBD. I have a build of: Off the Record, Decisive Strike, Dead Hard and Made for This. The build can be fun, and I felt it necessary at times to run. But it shouldn't have to be like this CONSISTENTLY for almost a year straight.

@sherif7491

2 ай бұрын

If that many people feel the need to tunnel maybe the real problem ain't tunneling

@syn4621

2 ай бұрын

​@@sherif7491 nah you don't get it every killer is a scumbag that goes out of their way to make survivors miserable, that's the only explanation!

@mckookie2967

2 ай бұрын

U only need otr and to be good in chase, i get tunneled, 2-3 gens pop and half the time I'll escape and if I don't everyone else does which is a W for me

With tunneling (especially mindless tunneling) there's a problem. Since it can be really effective, it ends up with killers that go to mmr where they shouldn't be with their skill. So not only they feel like they need to tunnel because they neglect other objectives, they also feel punished for not doing that because survs they play against are better/more experienced than them. Btw. casual player here that plays pretty much all killers. I'm very rarely tunneling (mostly just when opportunity happens and I feel like I can take DS risk). And I can say, that after like 2 years, most of my games are still cool and chill (most, because I ocasionally get stuff like anti hook swf, bully squads or insane looper/s, sometimes even a cheater)

At the end of the day, my only issue as to why it's so necessary needing a player dead to feel like you can do anything is because of the strength of maps. They claim borgo got nerfed and it's still absurdly safe with chained tiles and holding forward being so effective against plenty killers. The recent times I got blood Lodge were absurdly safe as well, main building had filler truck or junk pallets surrounding it that had fun bus in one section, a jungle gym in another and a god rock filler with another rock filler in another spot. Maps will forever be the real issue and the devs will never actually make them fair. Then you have pale rose where you might only have 8 pallets and it's miserable for everyone because the map itself is already displeasing to load into let alone the gameplay of it.

Scott... why then in every streak scenario, everyone tries to go for a tunnel? Not only 1k nurse or 1k blight, that are super skilled, super boosted bust still go for hard tunnel because they consider it the more reliable and effective strategy.... not only them but.... OTZDARVA! The symbol of nice player! When he is on streak he tunnels hard! You seem to me like Matthew when he defended the old camping Bubba saying "just simply do gens!" Tunneling is simple and effective! Even thou it is not fun! This is why anti tunnel perks are going to be rightfully buffed!

@ScottJund

2 ай бұрын

Because its the most effective strategy when you know how to do it? Like the video and description said. Most people do not know how to do it. Otz does. The end.

@zxzolfo4114

2 ай бұрын

@@ScottJund I do not agree man. I mean... I do agree that those players knows how to streak and how to tunnel. And I agree the average Joe may tunnel when it is evident he shouldn't. But I think average joe, tunneling blindly, statistically meets those scenarios (where he loses because he tunneled too much) pretty rarely, instead the opposite scenarios (he wins just because he tunneled) are more likely to happen. P.s.: the end? If this mean you are not going to reply anymore ok.... But it does not mean you proved scientifically the point.

@ScottJund

2 ай бұрын

@@zxzolfo4114its all anecdotal at this point. i've seen killers both win and lose in equal measure due to tunneling the wrong person. none of this is scientific

@zxzolfo4114

2 ай бұрын

@@ScottJund Ok.

@alpkonal2859

2 ай бұрын

@@ScottJundhey scott you said in the beginning that tunneling is a micro strategy but doesnt some players tunneling better than others mean that it is a macro strategy

I discovered tunneling as a strategy in 2017 and even after all these years it is the best and most reliable way to win. I only play on the Nurse and Spirit, purely mathematically, even not very fast 3 downs will make a game 3v1, which makes a huge difference. If you look at Momo's recent losses in winstreak at Oni and Blight, he lost in part because he lost the target that he was tunneling. If you want to win - tunnel and play the wake you like.

@adas2090

Ай бұрын

yep

@slavajuri

Ай бұрын

He was actively throwing in order to tunnel those players, though. They were kind of rookie mistakes, tbh. That just plays into the point of the video, though. If you tunnel like no tomorrow and do it poorly, you lose. That's it. Nurse, Spirit, Blight, Oni - these aren't average killers, either. Killers with high mobility and high lethality only get punished for tunneling if the player really messes it up. The same just isn't true for many others.

it objectively is and anyone who says its not are coping. if you can tunnel the weak link out at 5 gens you will basically always win. the only defense against tunneling is to not have a weak link in chase, whereas there are many defenses against the other killer strategies.

“Scott” “Jund” is secretly god’s eepiest soldier

My favorite and, honestly, most effective strategy is snowballing them by holding gens, lockers, and forcing them to be pressured while injured. (dredge player here) i use nurses calling and sloppy butcher, making it incredibly easy to force them all into an injured state, and keep them that way, one by one hooking them as they all have troubles healing each other AND unhooking, which also locks out gens due to my massive mobility. i let them have gens far from lockers to increase my power and forcing them into a disadvantageous position. tunneling can be an okay strategy if you have obsession perks, or if someone is creating a specific problem, and outlier that is making it a losing game, but otherwise I don't think its a very advantageous tactic. there are much better ways to play around with survivors, i would prefer to play those ways, they are far more efficient, advantageous, fun, and leads to a much higher chance at a winning game. but thats just my take, anyone else?