KDE IS THE BEST DEMONSTRATION OF WHAT QT CAN DO. They'd be killing the golden goose if they screwed kde.

@SomeTechGuy666

Жыл бұрын

100% agree.

Can you make a video about advantages Qt6 will bring to KDE software and plasma more specifically?

It's funny how I came to this video believing that all of the QT hate is just linux people being linux people, and the problem is exagurated, but after watching it I know that for once the Linux hivemind is actually right. It's clear that QT company is being forced to keep the code open, they don't have the code open for the sake of it beeing open but just because they signed the contract years ago that they no longer want to follow. Just seeing how they stretch the contract to it's limits makes me loose all trust in the company. They can stop supplying critical security patches to my potential app just on a whim. Getting a security patch 1 year late is like not getting it at all. I'll stick to open source alternatives for my projects. On a different note, this is really good video, I always appreciate when someone is fully objective and does not try to skew the reality in favor of the technology of their choice, the video just presents raw facts as it should, props for that 👍

now that was a much needed video, now we can just point everyone confused by misinformation here

Thanks for this video. Basically it's very simple: Open source licensing has intrinsic self-protection. As soon as a company becomes to happy with trying to perform a lot of tricks around it, such as delayed releases in intentionally destructive ways, anyone can always fork the code. And with such an large and important project as Qt this is basically guaranteed to happen. We already have examples of this in the past: Oracle "killed" many of it's open source projects in the past by aggressively delaying them. Most of these projects got forked by others and lived on under new names (think about Libre office and illumnos). Probably the Qt company is going to be smarter I guess.

@kotowhiskas-7630

Жыл бұрын

This, we alsways can fork the code if they start being assholes

The bottom line is many people are worried about the future of the agreement between KDE and Qt, and this concern is preventing KDE from reaching its full potential. The uncertainty surrounding the KDE and Qt agreement is hindering the progress of the KDE project and causing some hesitation among users and developers alike.

what's about Phoronix?

@TaylorConroy4T8

2 жыл бұрын

Same question that came to my mind, Phoronix is a very highly regarded news source in the Linux / FLOSS world

@jsebean

2 жыл бұрын

Yea I agree, Michael Larabel in particular is someone I aspire to be half as smart as lol

@Termuellinator

2 жыл бұрын

yeah, was wondering about that, too

@Tachi107

2 жыл бұрын

Phoronix itself isn't that bad IMO, the issue is the Phoronix Forum... Full of elitists, etc.

Qt is playing a dangerous game and it looks pretty worrying that they're trying to stretch the license agreement with KDE. If I was a tech lead working on KDE I'd be very wary of the future relationship with Qt. companies drop suppliers and partners over less

As a person who playing desktop programming for quite a while, let me explain. LGPL means you can statically linked with Qt lib and use that as a part of your own (even proprietary) software as long as you're not changed the library source. In GPL, you're only allowed to dynamically linked to library from your app. If you know Lazarus LCL framework for Free Pascal, they're using Qt5Pas binding to avoid GPL legal issue when you want to develop your own proprietary apps using Lazarus, so LCL is LGPL but you need Qt5Pas binding to use some Qt's GPL codes. Well explained video about KDE and Qt relation. Thumbed up.

@Tachi107

2 жыл бұрын

Note that the LGPL also allows (and encourages) shared linking of the library (section 4.d.1 of the license)

@109Rage

Жыл бұрын

The separation is that GPL requires all derivative works too be open source. This includes dynamic linking, but there's a common "linking exception" modification to allow for it. LGPL allows derivative works to be proprietary, but only if users are able to swap out their implementation of the LGPL code. This usually meant linking to share objects, but allows (in theory) static linking if there's some way for users to somehow link in their own version.

17:17 is perhaps the most important point. The Foundation has the upper hand over the QT Company with that clause alone. The company is in a very, very weak bargaining position. That's before getting into the discussion of all of the business reasons it wouldn't make sense for them. They clearly understand this too, as evidenced by their history of careful understanding of their obligations under the license agreement. Also note that the Company cannot amend the license on their own. The Foundation has majority control of the vote. I sympathize with their cash-flow problems, and the Foundation also stands to lose if QT Company folds, so talks for continuing a win-win-win relationship are understandable. It would arguably be a bigger blow to the project if the company went bankrupt than any of the other scenarios I've heard folks agonizing about. I'm not suggesting the Foundation and Project cave in to demands. I trust that the Foundation leadership who are closer to the ground on this will continue to represent the KDE community and QT Project's best interest.

I can't live without a world of KDE, it's the best thing i love in linux. Especially plasma desktop. I hope Qt will keep their open source versions in the future as well.

So, when will Qt 6 be in plasma? I got a bad Wayland bug which should be resolved when Qt6 is out for plasma.

@niccoloveslinux

2 жыл бұрын

Plasma 6

@typingcat

2 жыл бұрын

When pig flies.

@plugrolhuldo7736

2 жыл бұрын

@@typingcat true

@Braxton1981

Жыл бұрын

Wayland itself is the bug.

I want to install KDE, is installing Ubuntu server and then install kde-standard package a good idea?

Wht is it Gnome lovers always want to question what is by far the best desktop in existance always trying to diss QT/KDE

Why is Phoronix bad? Seems fairly good to me compared to other sites which are too watered down

@franchocou

Жыл бұрын

Lot of statistic

What stops the Qt company from abandoning the Qt project in favour of its would-be successor which is not covered by the KDE-Qt agreement?

@niccoloveslinux

2 жыл бұрын

...common sense?

@raymondhill7837

2 жыл бұрын

@@niccoloveslinux Common sense would be in favor of not letting KDE use Qt for free.

@zeocamo

2 жыл бұрын

@@raymondhill7837 common sense, they lose all if they do that

@kuhluhOG

2 жыл бұрын

their customers jumping to a new major version may be a lot of work but to a whole different Toolkit? even more so and after something like that, a lot of their customers would not be too keen on being their customers again (and as such rather switch to a Toolkit of a different company)

@AkraiLulerz

2 жыл бұрын

@@raymondhill7837 then you did not understand any of the reasons Qt lets KDE make use of Qt for free for such a long time. It has been explained long enough here and there

👍

So baby wogue is actually right then

@ewertonls_

2 жыл бұрын

Baby wogue and 99% of Linux users

@softwarelivre2389

2 жыл бұрын

@@ewertonls_ the thing is that QT is indeed a threat to Free and Open Source Software. I believed bW was just exaggerating, but after this video, I can sse it is only the truth. I'll avoid QT and QT-based products like the plage from now on.

@ewertonls_

2 жыл бұрын

@@softwarelivre2389 I agree

Any way to rearrange systemtray icons?

Can someone enlighten me on the phoronix joke?

@skia5635

2 жыл бұрын

@cas curse yeah

@w01dnick

2 жыл бұрын

@@skia5635 idk, where is a joke, it's just a recomendation to not use phoronix, as it often very biased and opinionated which is bad for news.

@w01dnick

2 жыл бұрын

@cas curse haven't compared them to make a good recomendation tbh. So basic recomendation - use several sources.

Lot of interesting info. QT to me is like Nvidia's new driver they have opened up what opensource needs to keep up, but have parts you need to pay to find out or be part of Nvidia. Like wise Qt will give out parts to the community needs, but not free ride to Big tech using it to profit out off their work. I think to some Devs Qt is beneficial as they can build without having to opensource their projects just pay the relevant licences for the parts they have use in their products. I think it is a good way to make a difference of home users that user opensource to play with for fun get use of some getting out of big tech thats why I use Gnome and fedora. While big tech should have to pay as part of using opensource for profit, Like a may donate if there is a project I really need to make mine projects. This is good because so many big tech firms use Linux kernels and parts of opensource and never pay a penny or give back anything but moan like crazy when LogJ4 or some other bug get noticed in the code. When the code is years old and nobody has really work on that part paid. They use GPL parts for free and on mass and never help or input to the source of that code themselves in anyway, which is normal created by people who want to improve things and innovate rather than become the new Billionaire company. 12 months delay is frustrating, but like wise I can see why unless there is a security issue the paying companies want new first, and they could always pay and get a licence and be first. It like people moaning about RHEL pulling the support plug on CentOS because to many people was hosting free servers for business without paying them or helping them. Like wise if you paying for TV you want better programming and to be first to watch it's content, no body like wait a year to watch or pay that new game first, but there is always those who will wait just to get something when the masses no long value it so highly. The only time Qt would need forking is if there was a security issue which the fix wasn't released leaving Qt as a risk, or if they force a features which make it retarded, Microsoft windows 8 chime bars, Vista widgets and Cortana come to mind. People hated those feature's and that led to hate for Vista, and W8 but their wasn't actually that bad, when it come to passed OS's W3.1 come to mind for the power the machine had back then W 3.1 was retarded vs Amiga workbench and Mac OS. Qt contract is a way to work in the grey space between big tech and armature home projects, GPL make some of big tech scared as it is so away from traditional capitalism and control. I use Gnome and fedora because I play with my computer for fun, I would hate to do IT as a career, meeting deadline, making profit for a CEO who gets his butt wiped by hookers. Now I am older I can no longer work because of disability, So I like to spend most my day on my own PC projects and if I ever make something out of it I'll probably give it away or make it charity non profit. Fuck giving Government anymore cash when disability Aid in UK is utter shit, I paid a hell of a lot in Taxes in my 25 years plus earning a good wage and now I can't work I'm am classed as scum with a life only worth a couple of hundred pound a week til I die. But I learn for earning and have extra money more money more problems and more TAXES unless you an Elitist born in to money the work to make money get harder the less you have so there is a point it is only human to say FUCK IT! and go on to benefits even if you be under the poverty line best things in life are free after all. PS. might have been a little baked typing this! lol

@shresthkumarlal285

2 жыл бұрын

Good read, thanks 👍

Isn't it pronounced as "cute"?

@LucianC137

2 жыл бұрын

yes it is...but Q-T is common too.

@adrianinsaval

2 жыл бұрын

I like to read it as cutie

These kind of things are always difficult… Qt being a proprietary software company releases such a large portion of their software under open source licenses. It is a bad business model. And, it is bad for a proprietary company because their goal is to make profits. The search for good business models for open source has been on for a while, but there are not much success.

Sei italiano?

@rossanamarisa516

Жыл бұрын

Yea he is

Great video, but still I only support GTK4

A fork could be called Rt.

@LandonJobe

2 жыл бұрын

Rust-based instead of C++?

@poudink5791

2 жыл бұрын

@@LandonJobe KDE always has been almost entirely C++ and I don't think they're ever going to change that. At least not in the near future. Plus, if you're rewriting Qt in Rust, you might as well just be making a brand new toolkit.

@LandonJobe

2 жыл бұрын

@@poudink5791 Fully aware of that. Tis but a joke.

i use kde to escape the mess that is gtk :(

KDE relies on QT which relies on C++. Not C. I personally *hate* C++. C got convoluted over time, but is *still* better than C++. As much as I love KDE's mindset of "customize", and absolutely *hate* Gnome's mindset of "Laptops and PC's don't exist: *every* device is a phone, Adwaita or Fuck You, 50 pixel touch padding on each and every element, header bars because fuck your window manager: also no more window managers cause Wayland, and DBus *must* be in kernel space....". Yeah, I'm doing it: KDE on Debian after a good 10 years almost: see what's what.

@kotowhiskas-7630

Жыл бұрын

Why do you hate C++?

@bltzcstrnx

Жыл бұрын

@@kotowhiskas-7630 somehow a lot of people hate C++.

@Henry-sv3wv

Ай бұрын

@@kotowhiskas-7630 yea, why hate c++, it's easy to learn, the bible of c++ syntax variation is just a gazillion pages long. why is there a joke hat you have to invent a time machine to become good at c++ ... but gobject c code for gtk seems to suck even more because no compiler will help you anymore ... but there is a vala language or python bindings for making gtk gui ...

Are you studying for your computer science degree, or have you decided to stop producing you-tube videos? Hello from Montreal from Grandpapa Leslie

@niccoloveslinux

Жыл бұрын

Studying for Math!

If you ask me as a developer, the current scenario is in violation of the Single Responsibility Principle. Platform rendering should be associated to Core UI Toolkit. A desktop UI Shell (Plasma or Gnome) should be using this Core UI Toolkit. Applications will be free to choose whether to use either QT or GTK or wxWidgets, and these libraries should use Core UI Toolkit to do rendering. This, will also fix the issue of different themes for QT and GTK applications. This, if happens, will force both GTK and QT to have a way to use Platform widgets, or make their widgets look like platform widgets. This is why on other platforms like macOS or Windows, QT or GTK apps look native unless necessary. The reason why I say this is a violation, is because curently both QT or GTK also takes care of the Core UI Rendering. That's dual responsibilities. However, this is not easy to change, as there are so many stakeholders out there.

@smit17xp

2 жыл бұрын

This has nothing to do with license of qt and in world of electron/web, flutter, game engines nobody cares about this so called Single Responsibility Principle.

@kotowhiskas-7630

2 жыл бұрын

GTK doesn't look native on windows without heavy tweaking and hardcoding. Also, looks like qt just coded windows style by hand. Look at the windows apps. There's a little native-looking apps, most of them just use electron or custom themes

@SriHarshaChilakapati

2 жыл бұрын

@@smit17xp Yes, license has nothing to do with this, but I say this because I feel it is an issue overall to the desktop Linux. Also, SRP has nothing to do with Electron.

@ThatLinuxDude

2 жыл бұрын

Um... Qt *does* look native unless you hardcode stuff.

@poudink5791

2 жыл бұрын

This isn't going to happen. FreeDesktop are the only ones who could somewhat realistically make this happen, but trying to force a set of widgets down developers' throats here is only ever going to turn out badly. Linux developpers don't want to deal with the limitations this would bring and the hassle it would be to switch everything over. Having standards for icon themes, sound effects and desktop shortcuts is one thing, but trying to standardize something as big and complicated as widget toolkits is another. It could even backfire. Developers could just pull out of FreeDesktop altogether. GNOME would be an especially good candidate for this, as they're the ones that care the least about making their apps follow the rules of other systems. As it turns out, they're also the biggest desktop environment out there and it'd be a disaster if they abandoned FreeDesktop. Also, let's be real here, this isn't even much of an issue in the first place. It might sound like mainstream operating systems have already solved everything problem with their fancy native widgets, but the truth is that they really haven't. Here's the thing, the situation is actually worse in most mainstream operating systems. What about Windows, the biggest desktop environment out there? Half of your apps won't even follow your dark theme. A ton of them still even use obsolete components like the infamous Windows XP filepicker. On Linux? I've never had to deal with an app that didn't support dark themes. If your GTK theme is dark, all of your GTK apps are dark. If your Qt theme is dark, all of your Qt apps or dark. If your system theme is set to dark, both GTK and Qt apps as well as all other apps that support the FreeDesktop standard for Dark/Light theming will be dark. The reverse also holds true. This is already a massive improvement over Windows, where your native widgets will turn dark if they feel like it and if they don't then you're just going to have to suck it. Since the vast majority of linux apps use GTK or Qt and most popular themes on Linux are available for both, you barely even have to deal with inconsistencies in terms of how the widgets look. The rest of the time, it's usually using Electron, NodeJS or something else that wouldn't be using native widgets regardless of your operating system. Oh, and what about Android, the biggest smartphone operating system? It barely has anything that can even be called a native look and feel. Every app just does whatever it wants. Want to set a global dark theme? There wasn't even possible until Android 10. It's even worse than on Windows. The lack of true native widgets isn't what's preventing Linux from being mainstream. It's barely even a factor.

GTK is better anyway

In an alternate universe KDE switches to GTK4!!

@zeocamo

2 жыл бұрын

never

@StiekemeHenk

2 жыл бұрын

Please no

@wisayacastle7873

2 жыл бұрын

...flutter, or worse Electron

@zeocamo

2 жыл бұрын

@@wisayacastle7873 no flutter is worse here

@AbteilungsleiterinBeiAntifaEV

2 жыл бұрын

Why would they switch to inferior software?

So far new Qt version is Open source, The Qt changing license is "What if". But it also means that the dependency is a liability compared to the state of GNOME. Which is why it makes Qt look bad. Also forking it is easy, But maintaining it will only strain KDE Foundation. So KDE is basically a Jack Sparrow just going with the flow optimistically then, isn't it? Edit: Also Phoronix is reputable. You're probably mistaking it for something like www.if-not-true-then-false trash

@alexis2k233

2 жыл бұрын

What if doesn't make a difference. To me GNOME has always been sub par and horrible. The desktop environment looks like a cheap toy and all the customization the Ubuntu team has done to it is horrible as well. The only decent UI are only provided by QT be it KDE or one of the lightweight variants. The only reason you want to say it has a better license if because in every other aspect it's just trash and since QT is also GPL and LGPL it's as good as it gets.

@akza0729

2 жыл бұрын

@@alexis2k233 Community vs Corporate... I don't think you watched the video properly.

@alexis2k233

2 жыл бұрын

you are missing the point.... let's assume GNOME is way more "open" than KDE, that doesn't make it any better. Want more people to adopt it? then make it better.

@shell4331

2 жыл бұрын

@@alexis2k233 lol, GNOME is more widely used than Plasma and has more wider adoption from the big Linux distributions.

@alexis2k233

2 жыл бұрын

I wasn't implying that KDE or plasma has more users, what I meant to say is if you want to convince more people, like me, that GNOME is better, then make it better and don't use licensing as an excuse.