Its amazing seeing things like this being discussed with a level head and intelligent, patient debaters. I'm so used to seeing American college campuses where the students simply yell personal insults or refuse to listen.

I am a 25 year professional painter who finally withdrew from the art 'biz' in the early 2000s. I left primarily because I felt that the whole system in which art is presented to the world is far too controlled by a few elite gatekeepers...and I say this even though my work was highly accepted. My work had become a commodity, a product for people for trade and sell, and I never could reconcile this with the sublime nature of artmaking. Artists believe they are in control, but the gallery and museum really call the shots, and the artist is succumbing to whatever their ideology is. The book by Suzi Gablik , "Has Modernism Failed?" identifies this conundrum of turning ideals into profit margins and how this harms the artist and the artistic process itself. When art can only be funneled into a specified narrow network, of course that network is vulnerable to agendas. I now make my work as an 'outsider' artist, and refuse to give that network any further power...at least on my end. I would love to see a world where there were more spontaneous art 'happenings' again, that were not dependent on curators and supposed 'experts'. After all, in his time all the experts got it wrong about Van Gogh.

There is no way that eliminating blind auditions from the selection of musicians in orchestras is going to make art better.

@selwynr

Жыл бұрын

Stupid, irrelevant comment. NO ONE IS SUGGESTING ANY SUCH THING.

@serpentines6356

Жыл бұрын

Blind auditions were set up in the first place so they would be fair, and not sexist or racist. These leftist, cancel culture totalitarians need to be stopped. They are ruining all the good in our society - which is what they want to do.

Excellent panel, especially Dr Tiffany Jenkins, who's segment sent me off in multiple other research paths with her quoted examples. My deep thanks for this.

@worldwrite

11 ай бұрын

Wow, thank you!

As a veteran, I have to say, forcing Intellectuals and Artists to choose between their life's work and their articulated convictions doesn't seem like a bad thing. I had some awesome vacations at the Hindu Kush because naive intellectuals thought their worldview is the only valid one and should be forced down the Afghani throats. If soldiers are expected to sacrifice our lives for the universal values, shouldn't those intellectuals at least be forced to pay something as well? If you believe in your convictions, why would sacrificing your career for it not be welcomed? At least your still alive afterwards. Unlike many of us, who volunteer to protect the community and country we're from only to have to spread your beliefs everywhere by force😇

@aaronhaslett7556

Жыл бұрын

Sacrifice is good but those that sacrifice their place within institutions don't end up influencing anything, no matter how strong their convictions.

@shortminute

Жыл бұрын

Woah! This is an outstanding response. I hear you loud and clear. Always takes an outsider to see reality. Makes the comment of “A hero dies once but a coward dies everyday.” Ring a bit hollow. Indeed there have been so many lives given for freedom. Thank you for your service.

@SL-es5kb

Жыл бұрын

Pressure makes diamonds so you are right that this will produce tougher more disciplined and tested ideas. this movement will in the end result in a giant purge of a whole class of credentialed idiots that were only ever good at getting ahead using social intelligence.

Thank you so much for this discussion and share. My eyes fully opened during 2020/ 2021 for the arts. Very clear which sporting, music, art etc events were celebrated and promoted and those that were not.

The whole thing about art, is that there are various versions of it - The commercial/institutionalized type, the one that suffers the most when narratives hit, is the one that is always on the line... Whenever you are not allowed to say something, institutions will ban it, and so, ban the artists that do it. So, design artists, commercial ones, and anyone with a job in one industry or another - is automatically on the line. Another type of art - is political... Where you specifically go out for a specific cause or concept, where you push a narrative and express something for a movement/cause or whatever... That art tries to be provocative, to be seen by most, and is usually supported by influential people. And then you have underground art... Which is basically fluidic artists - they create because they want to... They have a desire, so they do it, they might have it as a hobby, or even be supported by a local community... They rise and fall based on how much people connect, spread and in general, want more of what they see. If you ban all forms of art, the raw artists will just get more creative and express themselves in even more unconventional means. You can never truly stop raw expression... When a will comes, a way will follow. What currently happens with cancel culture, is killing allot of jobs, it's hurting human rights, it's a plague to freedom of speech and is a pathway to tyranny - when people grow more silent and more obedient, true atrocities can commence. However, artists are usually out of line. I agree with the guy that says suppression is the breeding ground for great art - because those artists actually risk their lives to make their passion real. And others end up seeing the result, getting inspired, and eventually - trying it as well. A great phenomena of the current "Woke Culture", is that people are getting tired of the common media... So, they end up looking more into what the underground has to offer, meaning outsider artists are gaining more popularity and influence. Even those that work in the creative industry, ends up forming artistic language - where they hide provocative messages in plain sight, and share their opinions through symbolism, code language and various means that bypass the overly inquisitive eyes of the zealots. Creativity flourishes the more restrictions and bounds you place on it. Art won't die. However, human rights are damaged by a wave of cold silence.

In the circus the seals clap and the clowns don’t know when to get on the bus

One of the many problems with the woke mob is they seem to only think state approved thoughts which is also corporate thought. But good artists thrive in these conditions when being an artist takes balls.

@sarcodonblue2876

Жыл бұрын

They say that hate corporations but they love their corporate media and are insufferable.

@SL-es5kb

Жыл бұрын

I don’t know about thrive but pressure makes diamonds and only the strongest seeds will manage to flower in this environment.

I was a punk performance artist on what’s his name Falwell? named names evil art thing in the late 1980s. I say: who cares. Take your $ and. . . But Please don’t take art out of schools and for anyone I am old I have been through this before It’s exhausting Best to all of you who know that art is s important as anything else in one’s life. All the parts work together to make our bodies capable of having and receiving consciousness… We didn’t evolve this far without art being one of the foundations of our current DNA

good poetry has always managed to sidestep these kind of issues..i feel that call to arms. thanks for the inspiration

I think with the internet etc, people should be "punk rock" and go around the institutions.. The old institutions in many ways are dead.

I'd say it's presenting unique challenges. You can't kill art, but you can curate it.

@MACSADOT

Жыл бұрын

UK Arts is heavily curated and censored, mentored via ACE funding and the NPO structure.

Decades ago Aleksander Solzhenitsyn's warnings fell on deaf ears. Artists must become warriors ....

@serpentines6356

Жыл бұрын

Solzhenitsyn was amazing. Guess they aren't teaching about him at all. Not good.

@montycobra

9 ай бұрын

I guess you really have no idea: Solzhenitsyn was a liar, a snitch and a nazi sympathizer.

Brilliant conversation!

1:09:27 Brava! So good!!!

Is there a way to get a transcript of this?

Yes. La réponse me semblait superflue. La vraie question est quelles sont les causes précises pour savoir comment arrêter ce massacre.

We’re all entitled to our own beliefs. The normalization of having the same thoughts set forth by institutions will ruin art. Artists must not be confined in political parameters. Break these chains on the expression of the soul. Set these angels free.

@serpentines6356

Жыл бұрын

Agree. I am reminded here about a very good essay I read decades ago regarding the NEA, and the arts. The author was making a case for the arts to NOT be funded by the NEA for those very reasons.

@serpentines6356

Жыл бұрын

Agree. I am reminded here about a very good essay I read decades ago regarding the NEA, and the arts. The author was making a case for the arts to NOT be funded by the NEA for those very reasons.

Triggernometry!!! 🔥

As an artist, it has always disturbed me that art is treated as if it is unassailable and artists as if we have ethical carte blanche. I say we need to confess that we are just as human as the most unartistic person and just as capable of unethical conduct as anyone else, and that our output can definitely be criticized and that the critics can definitely be right at times, too. I know I would LOVE to see myself as idealistically as society seems to have elevated we artists, but I know it isn't true, and I'd rather live by truth than anything else.

@serpentines6356

Жыл бұрын

👍🌿💜👍🌿💜

Don’t Porlock! All people need respite and a safe place to be when needed. So much stress now! I barely have time to bathe in bubbles let alone make art anymore! Porlock means when you interrupt an artist! Seriously Don’t Porlock!!

Save me, save me, save me from this squeeze. I got a big fat momma trying to break me. Ray Davies

1:13:12 !!! Yes

IF YOU ARE TRULY BOTH, ARTIST AND PHILOSOPHER, OVER HERE YOU WILL AT THE VERY LEAST, SHED A TEAR

www.youtube.com/@Triggerpod 33:01 Francis Foster ya legend

But I want to think for myself They won’t like you if you don’t fit in It’s past being liked, just being able to exist I will instruct you to obey

Its easy to believe in free expression when you believe your course is just, the problem is when the other guy invokes the same principle i.e. child porn, R Kelly etc

@FallingPoets

Жыл бұрын

I still like the boondocks “defense” of r.Kelly. “How old were you before you knew to get outta the way when someone starts peeing on you?!?”

@khutsonoko889

Жыл бұрын

@@FallingPoets So art has restrictions, age restriction in this case? How about racism, transphobia, homophobia and bigotry? as long they are done to adults is fine, no one should push back or dare I say cancel the perpetrator?

@zeenuf00

Жыл бұрын

@@khutsonoko889 you're just reeeeeeing.

@zeenuf00

Жыл бұрын

argumentum ad absurdum. 'What about child porn?' is not a valid argument against freedom of speech. Only a-holes or dummies use that kind of bad faith logic.

@shonabeggs4640

5 ай бұрын

​@@khutsonoko889Listen to you with your woke words.

yes

As the commercial world absorbs the arts ("I Shop Therefore I Am""- Barbara Kruger...commodified by advertising and marketing), so too should the Art World absorb the "Cancel Culture" absurdity

How can people refuse to work with jk Rowling if you must also violate your religious beliefs and serve any and all customers? Can it be both ways?

Only a very few artist that are lucky do better after being dropped for having the "wrong opinion" and most other artists have to quit. Anyone who voices that they are against vaccine mandates gets kicked out of the arts scene in Australia or if they don't agree with gender ideology. This makes art toxic and an echo chamber of ideas. If you disagree with gender ideology the other artists will come after and ruin you. They are horrible horrible narcissists and shouldn't be pandered too. Artists with a brain should get together ans start our own scene which is beginning to happen in pockets around Melbourne which is a terribly woke and annoying city these days.

if you have to announce aloud to not storm off if youre offended you're spending time with people not worth listening too

@MrLibtard

Жыл бұрын

Not worth speaking too*

Yes! Premium content ! :)

Yes it is.

Yes it is and it’s straight out of the communist booklet of Mao TSE Dong during the cultural revolutions of 1960s and 1970s China

Can't kill something that's been dead for years.....

There is no art if it is subject to being cancelled or censored all that remains is ideological propaganda by default.

Jewish people in the Reich were living in total fear, yet they made exceptional art through all of it. Same in China, Ussr, Iran... Fear is a great catalyst for creative art

@markpostgate2551

Жыл бұрын

But not everyone could access that art. What we're saying is that there would be a vibrant black market in art during such a time.

@shonabeggs4640

5 ай бұрын

🙄

Could always get a real job

@LuznoLindo

6 ай бұрын

The fact you think that's the answer says more about you than them.

The beardo barking, as usual of course.

Conflating Anglo American cancel culture with Salman Rushdie an others who are actually murdered for their art, wow that's a new level. Seems both whiny and incredibly arrogant

@arcadyabramov7962

Жыл бұрын

Actually, not so much. The mullas were idiots, mostly laughable. The people, who instigated this tidal wave of idiocy are not stupid at all. In fact, it's almost genius (Palpatin style). Create a horde of aggressive morons, who will scream and threaten everyone with cancellation for no valid reason, create a visible threats to children from pedophiles-in-law, and it is only the matter of time before a fascistic dictatorship won't look so bad to regular folks. After all, we all brothers within our nations, right?