Ray reminds me of Jimmie Johnson when NASCAR went to the low horsepower high downforce when he couldn’t use his talent because the cars became so tamed.

@DJYeeJay

Жыл бұрын

I can see that as well

@NPC-Gamer

Жыл бұрын

I've been screaming this for years ! He wasn't washed up, not by a long shot. Nascar just tried fixing what wasn't broken and here we are

As an 1800 scrub this goes well over my head. :D I didn't even know something had changed and that at the top things that are unnoticed nuances to me are topics of controversial discussions. I just drive around in circles and hope I don't get involved in a wreck. I did learn quite some things from your videos recently, though. How to drive quickly while saving tires and the sound-trick for example. :D The sound-trick in particular was such a game-changer!

I made a thread on this topic in the forums a little while back, but my opinion hasn’t changed. V7 drives more like a real car. It is more natural to drive. V6 had a real problem where getting sideways would superheat the tire and it would become extremely hard to keep it straight after a big slide. It also was easier to have an overcorrect where you would spin back the other way while trying to save the car. This is not a problem on v7. The car is pretty docile at the limit, and while you can overstep it isn’t common to spin out unless you’ve really made a big mistake. With that out of the way, the number one issue with v7 is that it is overly sensitive to tire saving. From the jump, if you aren’t saving your tires you will start going backwards after 5-10 laps. We also see this happen when you run the top at most tracks. You can make speed up there, but you are always balancing tire life because if you stay up there and there is a long run, you are again going backwards. This also creates a situation where the ones who can extract the last tenth out of the car can’t use that advantage because they are forced to back off and underdrive, which means they run the same speed as everyone else why we all sit single file waiting to see who drove the best tire saving algorithm. It’s not realistic, and that doesn’t come from me or even iRacing pro drivers, but real life drivers like Anthony Alfredo. Lastly, if you didn’t get to race the high HP Gen6 on the v6 tire with dynamic track… you missed out on the best racing product iRacing has ever had. Yeah, it was a bit overdone at times with how quickly the groove moved around, but it’s hard to explain what it felt like to run the middle at Chicagoland while passing guys running the top and bottom wore their grooves out.

One of the reasons why I dont want to go for the pro. I was afraid that I might find myself not having fun. I wouldnt say I am an adaptable person but sometimes change is hard. Struggling to change with the pressure of being a pro will just eat me alive.

@DJYeeJay

Жыл бұрын

Yep going pro is not in the cards for me either. For my talent level the amount of work I’d need would be like a full time job. Talk about killing the fun

I kinda want a v6.5 model. Where you can push a bit and the top line isn’t very slow but tires still wear. But I do think that the tire wear is too high.

I found that on previous iterations of tire models, and there were some tracks where you could really push your tires with almost no negative impact to your long run speed. It didn’t matter how fast or slow you were running, seemed like everybody’s tires were the same so the faster drivers would normally end up at the front. With today’s tire model, you have to save at every track no matter what if your strategy is to assume a long run. It can make not qualifying or having a bad qualifying lap frustrating because I have no trouble racing my way up to second or third, but it’s so hard to catch the leader once you’ve pushed your tires that much.

@michaelhall15

Жыл бұрын

Well-stated; perfectly put. Don't forget also, that for the leader, clean air is worth 20-lap newer tires. Couple a broken tire model with an even-more broken draft/aero model? You get checked out leaders even on fixed racing. Ridiculous.

A further conversation that's been happening in the iRacing forums that would be nice to feature or atleast discuss on is that the v6 tire model interacted with the live track of rubber build up and differing temperatures much much more noticeably. The live track that iRacing has with v7 basically doesn't work and iRacing hasn't really updated their live track model to really fit any NTM for any of the cars that's been updated recently. So the track is more "dead" than I think iRacing wanted and a lot of people have been waiting very long time for iRacing to update the live track perimeters to the NTM where we'll see more multi-groove racing or see racing groves gain or lose grip depending on how the race and weather conditions play out. Do you have any thoughts on this Justin? I'm a road racer, and I know from the road side that marbles don't really seem to have a huge effect. There's less grip off line but the road model seems more dead and canned than it should be. Especially with the new road update on "track polish" that's a set line and not actually something those in the server influence or put down over a session...

When V7 come out, 2019 or 2020. So I ran a solid 5 or 6 years on the old v6 model. V6 was fun sure, I find V7 fun to. But I'll say V7 is more Realistic, Now it could use a Lil tweaking cause I do think the fall off is a tad much. And I'll also say I prefer the realistic V7 tire model. The V6 was fun but it was more so just know how to drive the track and your good, never thought about saving tires back then like we do now.

I joined iRacing at the beginning of 2019 right at the tale end of V6 and I hated it. It didn't feel good to me at all and was the essence of people calling iRacing, "Ice Racing". It felt like the tire was on top of the track instead of actually rubber IN the track and if you overheated the tire the car became undriveable. Now I have a love/hate relationship with the V7 tire, I really like the way it feels. It feels like I'm driving a car with rubber tires on it, there's a level of traction and driveability that V6 didn't have. Unfortunately that's where the "love" ends" I really hate the over reliance on saving tires, in every A, B, or C race I go into it telling myself to save the tires, which in a short distance race that really shouldn't be the goal. At least as much as it is. It makes me race really conservative and makes me hesitance to push the car. Its not racing its just a big game of "who can save tires the best" In the Cup car its the worse for me. I can not save tires in that car to save me life no matter how much I underdrive the car. I literally be crawling around the track and still burn the rears of it. Combine this with dirty air, dynamic track not working, and the B and C damage model sucking for me right now iRacing on ovals is boring to me. The racing at most tracks is really one dimensional and its just not fun. I find myself wanting to race road way more than oval right now. The optimist in me is hoping that the crew at iRacing are learning a whole lot from their rain project and once that's done and gets released that new found knowledge will trickle down and iRacing will fix the dynamic track and optimize the tire and everything will be great again. If not big hot take from me, I think iRacing should start a new IP or just rip this old, tired game engine from 20 years ago and just start with a clean slate with modern technology to have better FFB, graphics, affects, ect.

great perspective on the deal. V6 and V7 both have their pros and cons but I lean more towards the fun factor of what V6 gave us. Obvs we all want what’s best but in the same respect, it’s what we all got to deal with now, so I can see both sides of the argument. Great thumbnail btw

@DJYeeJay

Жыл бұрын

Thanks! Hope you saw I credited you in the description :D

enjoyed the dive into this. Really hits into a couple of things I've been thinking about iracing. People always get mad when iracing makes any car more realistic because they are so used to the old way of doing things. Newer drivers who aren't used to the unrealistic model will then be able to take over. Older drivers will then make 24 iracing forum threads and just be unbearable. Just see the Radical on the road side. Additionally esports in general will always be a little too predictable because practice time and lack of variables mean that a Nash equilibrium can be found and tactics can be perfected. Great video as always.

It sucka man, no punctures, no flat spots, no room for errors with out crashing. They need to fix this.

As a former teammate of Ray's and a competitor against him this year I understand his frustration and will 100% agree there is WAY to much tire saving in the Cup car and then for B-C there seems to be at least a little to much punishment for going over the slip angle of the rear tires and using the rear to help you turn. That is where Ray used to be so unbelivably fast and is how I tuned my driving style along with Kettelle and many others. It took until just the last 2 months for me to finally give up on how I used to drive a car fast and how I even drove it to start the 2022 season pre June build. Once I changed how I went through a corner and how I viewed rear slip my pace went WAY up and I've been much more competitive since. For instance if you watch my onboard from Phoenix you'll notice I'm wheeling the hell outta my car, sideways just driving everything out of the car. Unfortunately for Ray and myself this driving style just gets punished now and you have to adapt. I totally 180'd my driving style for the HTD300 at Darlington and put up one of my best performances I've had in a while. As for Guest's comment I couldn't disagree more, from what I've seen the Pros on iRacing have just all gotten so much better from when I started that we all are within .1 of a second of each other in pure talent. So when a car that wants at least some tire saving combines with insanely close fields you are just going to get this. Additionally the setups have gotten SOOOOOO much closer than they used to be. When I started it wasn't abnormal to be + or - 3 tenths of a second on pure setup at differnet stages of a run. That just isn't the case anymore and all the sets are within 1-2 MAX, even including the iRacing Open default setups. Finally you have to factor in that real NASCAR isn't the hardest thing on this planet to drive. As iRacing has closed the gap to real life behavior its just become that much easier to extract 100% out of the car. Another factor is that as iRacing has closed that realism gap and made the tire better its opened up different styles to all be fairly similar to each other in pace, as they are in real life. In the HTD300 with so much power you had to lift on the straight the skill gap went up but even then still wasn't what it was back on v6 because of all the things I've listed in this post. I also haven't seen Ray's setup teammates perform particularly well in this years Contender series and with short races minimizing the opportunity for errors it is going to be very hard to overcome a setup difference. For instance my teammate Garrett Manes was driving at a championship level all year, we at ESE just didn't put the equipment under him. Once we partnered with the guys from V1/Ryco suddenly Garrett was up in the mix every race, minus our bad Q pace and short races. I have the upmost respect for Ray and his ability, I think with a gap year or even if he goes hard in RTP Quali next year, you will see the ability shine as it always has.

@DJYeeJay

Жыл бұрын

Great insight thank you!

I personally love a tire that wears, I’m not that fast so my tires are usually good toward the end of a run. It’s so satisfying to pass 5 cars in the last 10 laps

v7 def took me some getting use to i still have issues absolutely destroying tires. but we have to race what we are given and adapt

I don't notice anything with the tires. Now I notice the changes on the gt3 tires.

im glad the conversation is finally actually getting to the forefront, ive been saying it for months, maybe years. the problem with V7 is moreso HOW it wears as supposed to how much, i honestly am not sure the sim distinguishes a slip angle vs a scrub, so the way you save tyre is minimising inputs. hence why many tracks end up single file on the inside, that is the line that suits that. whereas it SHOULD be far more load-based, wearing based on how hard youre pushing it. what's annoying is iRacing have supposedly addressed that exact issue... for the GT3 tyre, but oval gets radio silence and iRacing cant even be bothered admitting something is up.

I'm no pro driver but I think the tire model isn't perfect but it's ok, the next gen (on ovals at least) feels great and it feels you it gives you back what you put into it, if you just push push push and don't take care of the tires at all you will fall off later into the run while if you take care of the tires it really comes to you later into the run, I think tire saving is a little bit too prevalent compared to real life but then again irl they have much less practice and much different setups.

I’ve been on iRacing since 2011. The V7 hands down is the worst tire model we have. Way too much heat. Not dynamic track. You can’t race hard or get out of the groove without tires heating up and not cooling down. In real life the left sides done wear but on iRacing they wear a lot. It’s really bad. I have a 6900 iRating it’s not that I’m not good I just think the tire model is awful. It’s not fun at most tracks. That’s just one issue iracing. Don’t get me started on the aero package.

@kart5driver

Жыл бұрын

nah the one that cliffed at lap 35 was the worst one

@josephpisciotta6022

Жыл бұрын

@@kart5driver Thats the V7 lol

the v7 tire model has made nearly every track one groove. It's all about "tire saving" now. I would say that in terms of realism and enjoyment, the v6 was better than the v7.

As a real life driver, V7 feels more realistic, but the issue I think is wear is a little too high and the tyres overheat in a very sensitive fashion. That’s why for ovals you get the issue of going to Homestead and having everyone run the bottom instead of multi-groove because the top lane just kills your race if you do it for anymore than 3-5 laps. If they just slightly dialled back the effects then I think it would be fine for longer league or competition based races, with maybe a scale for officials to still encourage not burning your stuff up before the end.

One thing about any racing, of any type, you better learn to embrace change...thx for the vid

This intro 100/10

What would make better Pro series racing 1. Single File Restarts 2. Tracks that you can pass on

both the v6 and v7 aren't that good. both have similar issues but the v7 is slightly better because it has actual tire temps. the best tire model iracing had was on 1 of its original builds back in 2008. that tire model had tire temps, you could drive the car on the limit and get sideways. you can play this build of iracing on ThePirateBay. here's a video showcasing it kzread.info/dash/bejne/f3eT0LaPdMTWiZM.html

@patnaty

Жыл бұрын

true

@kem0n0.kokomo

Жыл бұрын

Is that seriously how iRacing used to drive??? Holy hell, how in the world did they manage to miss that mark afterward for the better part of a decade and are only getting back there now? That is genuinely shocking, I thought iR never got anywhere near that level of better-grained grip limits up until recently, considering the game was built on the ice-skating sim known as NR2003. If there's any 'reject modernity, embrace tradition' type thing I'd accept, it'd be that lol.

difficult... difficult is to adapt from NR2003 tires to iRacing tires!!! 😂😂😂

@DJYeeJay

Жыл бұрын

Ya that alone has really made them 2 separate entities these days

Nice DJYEEEEEEEEEEEE-J

Now I'm not an iracer but I do drivea lot on a lot of different sims and know a lot about car setup irl, I think iraving has always been a bit tooo peaky even v6 videos seemed peaky, a car with a 15 inch slick with a huge sidewall like a last gen nascar should be forgiving as hell and a next gen should be peaky, my two crnts

V6 was way more fun and way more realistic

@DJYeeJay

Жыл бұрын

TY for the easy content ;)

i miss v5 tire to be honest

I know for a fact that V7 is much more realistic than V6. With V6, cold tires were fastest. With V7, the tires need to warm up (just like real life) before they reach peak grip. Then the grip falls off as the tires wear out or are overheated (just like real life). Since I don't drive real race cars, I cannot comment on other things such as exceeding the optimal slip angle. But those who do drive real race cars (and you can see this on KZread for yourself) have dropped f bombs while complaining about how they can't push the cars in the game as hard as they can in real life. Or how they have no chance of catching the simulated car when the real car is easy to catch. If iRacing is the "most authentic simulator" that it claims to be, then realism should be the focus.

♦️

I have been on iracing for 6 years now and what I have learned is most people on iracing are huge whiners lol. They all complained about the last tire mode and now same thing. Not enough of this or that. Or to expensive. Or they pay more attention to road or to much to oval. No rain. Blah blah.

i disagree the new tyre model is great, i had 2 races in the trucks lastnight and won both, i drove the truck hard and to what the tyre would give me, meanwhile the rest of the feild saved there grip

Iracing always try to Tingting the field yes iracing kill the game for couple years now the broke Nascar on road to

because now it's more real and they actually suck lol

tire model sucks it’s not realistic

Is this tire model currently used on iRacing?