Waiting for Userbenchmark to explain this is because of amd's marketing.

@christophermullins7163

15 күн бұрын

It IS because of AMD marketing though..........

@lucidnonsense942

15 күн бұрын

"AMD cheated by making CPUs too efficient, forcing Intel processor to cosplay as a nuclear reactor in SSR of Ukraine!" - UserBenchmark, probably...

@auritro3903

15 күн бұрын

UserBenchmark: "The Intel Core 14900K is a 24 Core processor, and the fastest CPU in the world. It has a massive 6GHz boost clock, which is much higher than the Ryzen 7950X3D's boost clock of 5.7GHz. Gamers or Creators will have very little reason to look at the 7950X3D or the 7950X due to it costing $100 and performing roughly 10% in single-core and multi-core. However, an army of AMD's idiot baboon fanboys like Gamer's Nexus and Hardware unboxed will still try to convince you that the 7950X3D is actually worth it, and claim that Intel's 14900K experiences 'stability issues', even though that is only typically the result of extreme high overclocks. Even with the baseline profile, the 14900K beats the 7950X3D in single-core, which further proves the worthlessness of AMD's processor, and the fact that Ryzen CPUs are no better than Bulldozer CPUs. An average user or gamer should not look at any of AMD's processors, as doing so will only result in disappointment due to lower performance, more instability and worse software."

@DragonOfTheMortalKombat

15 күн бұрын

@@christophermullins7163 How ? did they like market that we're proud of CPUs exploding and then Intel got into FOMO mode and said we gotta burn our CPUs too ? lol

@DragonOfTheMortalKombat

15 күн бұрын

@@lucidnonsense942 Nah cosplay as a rocket engine 💀

Gotta love how the "intel baseline" isn't the same across motherboard vendors. Almost like the intel baseline isn't provided by intel but cooked up by each vendor on their own. Also it's worth noting that SVID set to intel fail safe runs more Vcore than the ASUS default settings for any scenario that doesn't hit the power limit. Gigabyte's intel baseline profile does the same. Most gigabyte boards use AC_LL and DC_LL of less than 1.1mOhms on default but with the baseline profile the AC and DC_LL get set to 1.7mOhm which raise the core voltage for any workload that doesn't hit power limits.

@Hardwareunboxed

15 күн бұрын

It's pretty funny really, true to form :D

@kosmosyche

15 күн бұрын

It almost feels like these "Intel baselines" were something nobody cared about for years, so much so, that now mb manufacturers are really scratching their heads. "Wait, what, there are Intel baselines? Who says?" "Dude, Intel, of course, who else. They're blaming us for not abiding by them." "Oh-oh. Ok, let's fix it at once then. Give me the numbers." "Yeah, about that... Thing is, we are not sure we have the numbers. Trying to contact Intel to provide us with them, but they are keeping us on hold for several days. The last guy said he'll go to look in their archives and the one before that said he'll consult the engineers and we haven't heard from either of them since". 😁

@marcelcoetzee7152

15 күн бұрын

The part that bugs me is that these kind of thing have been a rule and not an exception for a while and there seems that there haven't been blatant issues up until now. This bugs me because it narrows down the potential issues to be likely something along the line of a bad batch or suppliers of materials or even worse a known design flaw somewhere within the chip. I can also get why they would be cagey about it because of the possibility of some kind of class action involved as well. If you tell people they are buying "top of the line" type parts and then they end up with the same performance as a middle of the range I7 (Don't quote me on that, I haven't checked it up again) due to how power limits magically need to be enforced now that is going to make a lot Intel buyers start frothing at the mouth. Also it means we should probably rename the Intel baseline specs to "should-have-bought-AMD-mode". I know I am being really cynical and sarcastic but this is going to have serious consequences for some people. Lasty , dumb question has been bugging me. Has anyone seen any positive or negative correlation between cooler power and the issues with these chips? I cant figure out if having better or worse temperatures would mean more wear on the CPU in this situation. Is lower temperature but higher voltage equal or worse than higher temperature lower voltage and throttling for these CPUs?

@dyslectische

15 күн бұрын

​@@Hardwareunboxed Will laptops have the same problems? Like what you have told today ???

@kingofstrike1234

15 күн бұрын

also the way they responded to igors by using the word "reccomend" not "must" is just horrendous

Their response looked like "if your processor or Motherboard isnt dead yet then it is in spec" lol

@adamtajhassam9188

15 күн бұрын

Funny when i put defaults on motherboard msi carbon z790 thats when windows crashed however when i put a balanced OC no crashes since didnt mess w the long / short duration should i be worried? Temps are in check too

@shiraz1736

15 күн бұрын

⁠@@adamtajhassam9188I’m confused how you ended up on z790 in the first place. Just cont let go of team blue I take it?

@B.D.E.

15 күн бұрын

​@@shiraz1736 Why not? My 14700k is a very strong performer across all uses. And in gaming I like the higher minimum 1%/0.1% FPS I get vs. AMD on the same games.

@evan-du3vk

15 күн бұрын

​​@@shiraz1736I bough intel even knowing that thers problem long time ago with motherboards overclocking cpu in default bios settings . It's strange to not check all the info on internet before buying. And on asus motherboard is only one option to click in bios to change it. And still for me intel won. I was choosing between 7950x3d and I 13900 k and Intel was cheaper, same motherboard was cheaper and I know it that any ram I will buy will work. And I know that on amd only 8 cores have cash and I didn't want to play with core scheduling for every application that I can use.

@shiraz1736

15 күн бұрын

@@B.D.E. Ok that 1% is a seller for sure.

Intel: Motherboard manufacturers, please make sure we win in benchmarks Also Intel: Motherboard manufacturers are causing the crashes on your systems by running out of spec

@Hardwareunboxed

15 күн бұрын

Intel: You know that spec we said was 'in-spec' for the past 5+ years? Board Makers: Yes Intel: Well it's out of spec now dummies, FIX IT!

@steveweidig5373

15 күн бұрын

Board partners: Out of spec? What is out of spec? Intel: Out of spec is in spec is out of spec. Board Partners and reviewers: Wut???

@johnd.1618

15 күн бұрын

@@Hardwareunboxed It took you 5+ years to find out? Wow, I thought it was only 2 years. Thank God when there is a rumor about AMD it only takes you 5 hours max.

@Argoon1981

15 күн бұрын

@@johnd.1618 Stop you are not helping AMD or its users with this kind of comments, acting like a fanboy is irrational, neither AMD or Intel are ours friends they want our hard won money and that's it. And if you are wondering, I'm a AMD Ryzen user.

@maddhatter0

15 күн бұрын

@@johnd.1618just because most people don’t think on as low as a level as you do doesn’t mean we dint understand. We just understand so much more than you could. Ryzen user for years here.

Overclocking used to be a deliberate choice - one for people willing to risk stability and deal with higher power, for marginal gains. But these days, out-of-factory overclocking seems to be the new default, and you need to deliberately go and limit everything yourself to get back a cool and stable system which performs pretty much the same...

@Rentta

15 күн бұрын

It wasn't always marginal

@GeneralS1mba

15 күн бұрын

It is now marginal. Before it was risking stability & higher power for noticeably higher performance.

@ziokalco

15 күн бұрын

In the past it wasn't rare for manufacturers to play so safe with default base performance that it was feasible to get about 10% performance increase without doing much to efficiency. GPUs such as the HD 7950 allowed pretty much every owner to increase performance by a higher % than you can get nowadays changing a 4060 for a 4060ti

@Lishtenbird

15 күн бұрын

@@Rentta I guess it depends how recent is "recent", and how marginal is "marginal". Something like 2600k was more than ten years ago. What's the most recent mainstream component that was still decently overclockable?

@leonro

15 күн бұрын

​@@RenttaOverclocking was usually in the neighbourhood of 10% gains, which IMO is somewhat marginal. Is 66fps that good if previously you had 60fps? I'd wager that no, not really. You need significantly higher performance if you want to feel a difference.

Userbenchmark declares war on Hardware Unboxed, will send a pre-emptive strike of unhinged text on their website.

@Hardwareunboxed

15 күн бұрын

Ohh nooooo :D haha

@vasudevmenon2496

15 күн бұрын

😂😂😂. Their large user base will be throwing party that Intel baseline profile pushed efficiency better than 7800x3d,7950x3d

@kloroformd

15 күн бұрын

@@vasudevmenon2496 Their dealer will be like "you sure? That's 1.5x your usual dose:"

@vasudevmenon2496

15 күн бұрын

@@kloroformd haha

@DragonOfTheMortalKombat

15 күн бұрын

@@kloroformd more copium please.

The best proof that power limits on Intel are a horrible mess is that even 'Intel baseline' profiles are different. It's great that - as usually - you try to get to the bottom of it instead of believing Intel marketing trying to deflect blame.

@zodwraith5745

15 күн бұрын

It's pretty clear what the baselines are, Steve already showed it in the graph. Never try to make sense of what Gigabyte does.

@johnd.1618

15 күн бұрын

Gigabyte was burned in the not so far past more than one or two times, so they are probably putting much bigger breaks until things settle down and there is a clear conclusion about what is going on with Intel CPUs. Or maybe they are betting on Intel users fear by limiting those CPUs so hard to present as the company that really cares.

@kiwivda

15 күн бұрын

Intel specs on white paper are really clear, maybe reading and comprehension is no more a request.

@mjc0961

15 күн бұрын

@@johnd.1618 Gigabyte sure put much bigger breaks on performance than everyone else.

“I used to be in spec, but then they changed what in spec was. Now what I’m with isn’t in spec anymore and what’s in spec seems weird and scary. It’ll happen to you!” -Intel, or motherboard manufacturers. Or Grandpa Simpson.

Remember the old days when processors had so much overclocking headroom or you could even re-enable disabled cores in some cases? Now they run them right at the edge of stability, or in Intel's case not even that

@pivorsc

15 күн бұрын

Ah Yes, phenom x2 enabled to x4 and OCed to match the performance of 4x more expensive cpu

@Argoon1981

15 күн бұрын

You can still enable and disable cores relatively easy, with windows and CPU vendors tools, in case of AMD with Ryzen master app for example. But this can also be a problem, because people forget stuff, I know one person that disabled cores, then forgot about it, latter made a angry youtube video saying that Microsoft windows was dumb, because "it didn't saw all the cores of his CPU!", when in reality like I said he manually disabled the cores and just forgot...

@Nintenboy01

15 күн бұрын

@@Argoon1981 true, but I'm talking about old 3 or 2 core processors that were sold that way but actually had 4 usable cores in some cases. I think there were even 4 core Phenom IIs that could be unlocked to 6-core

@anhiirr

15 күн бұрын

i swear the new amd chips come out see 95c thermal profile...ppl gasped...etc....then quickly realized it could be changed to 75c....and still equate GREAT workload performance and equally great in gaming/shared loads. What a circle back in usage.....meanwhile trying to uv a "fresh and new" intel or amd laptop on the otherhand....those things are rigged to blow and marketed to be "upgraded" on a constant basis to their PURE 'laptop user" demographic its a sad state of affairs. Granted huge leaps in performance on the mobile front in the last 5 years...in realworld uses and theoreticals. The overall thermals/powerprofile aspects still has me largely thinking this gen is worse from a stability standpoint and system health over the course of ownership. And ive built unlocked phenom x2 DFI lanparty rigs in the past...even hybrid crossfire rigs with APU and overclocked chipsets....weird how theres more headscratching involved and general system/degredation in play these days if you want to tune a system or PUSH a budget system to its limits(in the past) considering you cant even really do somthing on par with a "buffed" budget build anymore.

@Cylonknight

15 күн бұрын

Capitalist innovation. Except innovation comes from how to extract more money, not to make a better product and make money because it’s better.

it stinks of desperation by intel. When you sacrifice stability for performance you start going down a slippery slope.

@DragonOfTheMortalKombat

15 күн бұрын

FX bulldozer flashbacks. I hope we're not heading towards that.

@upon1772

15 күн бұрын

That's all the 13th and 14th gen CPUs are is just more power hungry versions of 12th gen for the most part.

@andersjjensen

15 күн бұрын

You can be absolutely sure the OEMs like HP, Lenovo and Dell are being told: "You better fckn set the values we 'recommend' on your professional lines! What you do on the consumer crap is none of our business, but if the professional lines aren't stable we will crucify you with a jackhammer!".

@chronossage

15 күн бұрын

@@DragonOfTheMortalKombat Oh they are fully going towards that. Intel had a clever idea of putting in smaller E cores for power efficacy like mobile phones had and while it's a great idea for laptop when you pair 8 E core with 2 P cores. It's basically worthless for desktop when even after windows added support for it the E cores largely don't do much and because of the whole E cores idea the P cores (while powerful) are super inefficient. Just like how bulldozer had a great idea of boosting multithreading at the expense of single threading. Intel is in the middle of needed to double down as a architecture is designed to last a decade or more phase and you can't just turn the ship that quickly. So they're dumping tons of power in it to compensate. I really like the big little idea but for Intel the big cores just lose to Zen and the little cores aren't good enough to replace a multithread so they aren't really needed.

@oachkatzlschwoaph

14 күн бұрын

a sloppy slope

FrameChasers has been real quiet

@Hardwareunboxed

15 күн бұрын

Stability is not his safe word.

@Thelliam666

15 күн бұрын

His fans would just buy another 16 CPUs to find one capable of running the speed they want. Each to their own I guess.

@blegi1245

15 күн бұрын

Too busy scamming 600 bucks from people for unstable intel memory overclocks.

@andreiga76

15 күн бұрын

I think he had to admit 7800x3d is the better gaming CPU some time ago even with all that min-maxing of Intel CPUs and die cooling, and internal hate for anything with AMD on it (not sure what his problem is).

@DragonOfTheMortalKombat

15 күн бұрын

@@andreiga76 Well we have also never figured out what Userbenchmarks' problem is. Maybe they both don't like a female CEO or the colour red ? who knows lmao

"in-spec" leads to severe silicon degradation. thank you intel!!

@Argoon1981

15 күн бұрын

The less they live the more CPU's you sale...

@SidneyCritic

15 күн бұрын

I don't know if it's silicon, because we know there is heatsink contact problems with the 1700 pin stuff, so I would be more inclined to say it's thermal paste degradation.

@jakuborban6357

15 күн бұрын

​@@SidneyCritic truth is we don't know exactly. but if thermals were a problem, wouldn't the cpu just lower the clocks instead of crashing? crashing means the load, clocks and voltages are no (longer) ok. one (of many, granted) probability is silicon degradation.

@riven4121

15 күн бұрын

@@SidneyCritic It's the silicon. Degradation causes the CPU to run a workload with instability, forcing you to undervolt or change its clock speed to continue working stably. It's the same thing that happens if you overvolt a CPU and degrade it, you can no longer run it at the same clock speeds and settings without it being unstable.

@offspringfan89

15 күн бұрын

@@riven4121I guess you meant overvolt instead of undervolt? After degradation takes place, the CPU will require a higher voltage to mantain the same clock speed as before.

Its pretty shady that Intel threw the motherboard manufacturers under the bus in their statement. They allowed them to do that the entire time (and may have even encouraged it).

@Smartcom5

13 күн бұрын

They indeed _have_ been encouraging it or at least conveniently overlooked it for more than half of the last decade. _Since at the end of the day, the _*_only_*_ lone beneficiary is Intel itself_ … I mean, didn't Asus engineered their M.C.E in collaboration with Intel itself?! *They deliberately skewed benchmarks ever since and freely allowed reviewers to run **-out of spec-** **_in spec_** and thus, glossed over it as being totally fine.* Meanwhile reviewers (pretty much all of them!) shadily were happily hiding behind the alleged delivery-condition and every question regarding power-draw, heat-dissipation and whatnot, was disregarded as running just the usual 'out of the box' experience, when in fact *_everyone_*_ involved in this mysterious Bermuda triangle of Intel, OEMs and reviewers _*_knew very well, that *exactly nothing was ever actually running at official specifications_* ... Yet no-one dared to care but held open their hands for their share of hush-money (OEMs got their rebates, while reviewers are paid in cost-free samples). All this is done since ages on the back of the clueless customer and his pockets of quicker dying parts and his power-bill, while never ever going to get what he actually paid for, since it's pretty much non-existing. Since if Intel's parts were running at actual specs, Intel-CPUs would rate a very poor second, while being still power-hungry, inefficient and a hot-mess.

Jufes from Frame Chasers has been really quiet since this situation had come to light 😂

@blegi1245

15 күн бұрын

Too busy scamming his audience 600 bucks for unstable intel memory overclocks.

@AshtonCoolman

15 күн бұрын

​@@blegi1245😂 exactly!

@m8x425

15 күн бұрын

he literally picked up where Silicon Lottery left off

@whatistruth_1

15 күн бұрын

Someone who OC's won't be having these issues, so no. They don't care as it won't effect them or their customers

@HosakaBlood

15 күн бұрын

Idk what I been running a 13900k all core oc 5.7ghz none of those issue passed prime95 48hrs etc

I continue to be thankful that I went with the 7800x3D despite the rocky start.

@BigFoot47-48

15 күн бұрын

Hey, how much improved AM5 until today? I'm currently planning my first build but I'm unsure what Platform to pick

@josh0156

15 күн бұрын

@@BigFoot47-48 Mine's been pretty stable for several months, so I've been happy with it. The thing performs well in games and is easy to keep cool.

@darcrequiem

15 күн бұрын

@@BigFoot47-48I've had a 7800X3D since September of last year. I've had no issues. I concur with Josh. It's easy to keep cool. I have an Deep Cool AK620 Air Cooler. The upgrade from my 5800X was substantial.

@Honk_Clank

15 күн бұрын

​@@BigFoot47-48 Run hardware info 64 and run your games & watch vsoc like a hawk....I undervolted pbo disabled eco mode the works & helldivers 2 would spike to 2.2v and hit 141 c ! granted it was for a split second but the repeatability promted a return. newest bios can help it depends and varies.

@greggysimmo

15 күн бұрын

I feel the same about my 5800X3D and RTX 4080 build, as I've had absolutely zero issues and the gaming performance has been fantastic.

9:25 I can confirm that this has to be a bug in the Gigabyte BIOS. I updated to the latest BIOS and saw the same issue (not with an i9, though). Boost behaviour was completely broken and especially the E-cores didn't boost *at all* for any period of time. I saw a performance loss of ~30% with these settings. After reverting back to the previous BIOS version and loading my own baseline profile (where I basically only set the power- and current limits to the "recommended" Intel values), everything went back to normal and for some odd reason performance even increased slightly, while temps and power draw were fine.

@Hardwareunboxed

15 күн бұрын

Well let's hope it's a bug...

@zodwraith5745

15 күн бұрын

I also saw a performance boost when I undervolted my i7. It went faster and stayed cooler without approaching 100c in cinebench anymore.

@silverblack78

15 күн бұрын

Jay2Cents showed this behaviour in a recent videos.

@paradoxicalcat7173

9 күн бұрын

@@zodwraith5745 The reason under-volting increases performance is because it is no longer thermal throttling. Thermal throttling isn't binary like the old days; the speed ramp is relative to delta temperature and rate of temperature rise above the threshold. I also have an i7 and under-volted it from stock to 1.2V. It OC no problems to 5 GHz on air, and has run this way for 7 years.

@zodwraith5745

9 күн бұрын

@@paradoxicalcat7173 I didn't say it wasn't. I just didn't bother explaining _why_ undervolting is helpful.

Kept going back and forth with my new build. Ended up switching to AMD for the first time in about 15 years. Decided to get a Ryzen 7800 X3D, with a RTX 4080 super.

@SOMEONE23145

15 күн бұрын

good job, and with good mobo secure your future with new CPUs. this is a wake-up call for me too. Im done with Intel.

@jameswilliam7992

15 күн бұрын

Same

@DragonOfTheMortalKombat

15 күн бұрын

Hope you enjoy 7800X3D the legendary gaming chip

@TheRealPotoroo

15 күн бұрын

Don't forget to check out how to use AMD's Curve Optimiser in the BIOS to moderately undervolt your CPU and get extra performance out of it. I'm running my 7800X3D at -27. Some people can do even better but beware benchmarks that rely only on Cinebench as that's small enough to fit in the L3 cache and doesn't stress the memory subsystem. Even so, the irony that not only are AMD CPUs far more efficient than Intel's to begin with but that you can tweak them to be even more efficient to get more performance versus Intel's approach of throwing voltage at everything is too delicious for words.

@johnekopy

15 күн бұрын

@@TheRealPotoroo thanks for the advice.

SI here, we sell prebuilds with i9-13900K and I9-14900K. Mid range models with b760 boards that stick to Intel stock settings. And two 14900K failed with us was on stock limits. I have video proof as we were baffled that the degradation happened at stock power. We have had 13900k fail on b760.

@josephlai99

14 күн бұрын

if u using bios default, it have OC already.... u have to enforce all limit in BIOS setting not using default

@Crazyneo2917

13 күн бұрын

@josephlai99 As shared above, i am working for an SI. So bios is our main game. In case you didn't notice, i am talking about a b760 chipset board that doesn't allow overclocking. Yes, brands like Asus enable Asus performance enhancement by default on all Asus boards. But this is disabled in the midrange options. Every system is stress tested and benchmarked while measuring power and temperature as part of our quality control process. So 253 watts, that's all that goes in under any condition. Ofcourse we have higher end models using rog strix b760 and z790. These boards with asus performance enhancement enabled pulls upto 390watts peak. We had failures in stock power.

@pixels_per_inch

11 күн бұрын

I've even had a 13500 fail on a MSI B760 board.

@paradoxicalcat7173

9 күн бұрын

Really...you should never trust "default" or "stock" settings, ever. I have ALWAYS checked the defaults to ensure they are reasonable. A power limit of 4 kW is NOT reasonable. It would raise a huge red flag for me, and cause me to set the power limits to whatever the spec sheet defined. 253W is a very high figure still, given that until now, most CPU packages have been limited to 90-120W due to thermals. YOU CAN'T CHANGE THE LAWS OF PHYSICS, but you can sacrifice your device for short-term performance. It's like drag racing: you can take a 5.7L V8 and make it produce 4000 HP, but it can only run 1/4 mile before it needs a total rebuild.

@vladimirlastname2682

7 күн бұрын

I am guessing those 760 boards are also strictly entry level, including ability to run a cpu

So it was “in spec” when performance was needed for benchmarks at launch, but it’s out of spec when consumer wants said performance. Noted.

Why? "longer bar better!"

Can't wait for Zen 5

This is why I like Hardware Unboxed; they always remember. I saw a few outlets and youtubers making this a "new problem", when I remember my Z170 ASUS Maximus VIII Hero (Skylake CPU) shipping with MCE enabled by default already. //edited to correct Intel Chipset (Z170)

@mjc0961

15 күн бұрын

I can also recall plenty of reviews and other videos where GN Steve ranted about this

@josephlai99

14 күн бұрын

same as Asus on Z690.....bios default set to AUTO... MCE ON already

Sounds like a class action lawsuit just waiting to get started lol.

@louisvaught2495

15 күн бұрын

With the direct statements from Intel employees that clearly and precisely define what "in-spec" is? Yeah definitely.

The best part of this is Intel was happy with the increased power limits on Publications because it gave them good performance in reviews on release. They've been doing this for years and it finally caught up to them. AMD is doing something similar with PBO and increased power limits but not nearly as severe. All these extra default boosts on motherboards are why people can't get much of an overclock because it's running beyond the default specs out of the box.

@Hardwareunboxed

15 күн бұрын

AMD is much stricter here and have become increasingly so since the AM5 issues, for example PBO cannot be enabled by default.

@m8x425

15 күн бұрын

It wasn't an issue with those older CPU's because the voltage stayed within the higher end of reason. Now the VCore spikes up +1.5v on these processors. The old rule of thumb for a 24/7 overclock was to keep the VCore below 1.35v. Intel has deluded themselves, vendors, and noobies into thinking 1.45v to 1.55v is safe, when it isn't and never was for long term stability.

@user-vy7td1wp2w

15 күн бұрын

There is a huge difference. AMD does not consider PBO as 'in spec' or 'stock'

@luminatrixfanfiction

15 күн бұрын

So long story short, without those baseline limiters to keep the CPU healthy and adjusting for silicon lottery, AMD's cpus are technically faster than Intels all these years. AMD cpus run cooler and at half the power meaning that they have headroom for overclocking

@louisvaught2495

15 күн бұрын

@@m8x425 That's not necessarily true, it depends on silicon quality, masking quality, and how well the processors are designed internally to regulate voltage and prevent fall-off. Over time, you would generally expect safe v-core voltages to increase, particularly as processors get better at having consistent voltage across all transistors.

The 'where can I Blu-Tac a processor to for B-Roll?' game is pushing the same level of your continuing effort to highlight anti-consumer practice and I remain here for it!

11:55 don't think we did not catch that joke

@tobytoxd

15 күн бұрын

Please help me. I don't get it :)

@LupusAries

15 күн бұрын

​@@tobytoxdIt's about bad ole' Palps...

@tobytoxd

15 күн бұрын

@@LupusAries Wow, you are helping so much, when you speak 3 words in slang. I googled your words and also specifically just "Palps". Didn't know, i wanted to learn more about insects.

@LupusAries

15 күн бұрын

@@tobytoxd;) I didn't want to spoil it by saying it was about "creamy Sheev" Palpatine/Imperator Palpatine.....there is a rather infamous scene where he goes "UNLIMITED POWAAAH!!!" ;)

@tobytoxd

15 күн бұрын

@@LupusAries Ah, thanks! That's ensaberlightening to say the least. As a German i have to admit, i did watch those movies in that germanic accent, which didn't end up as famous as the original. SHAME! .)

Agree. AMD did a really good job for the 7800X3D disaster. They reacted to the burnt issue very quickly, admitted the mistake and presented the fix before it's getting worse. Now, no 7800X3D will burn and it's still seating in the crown. While Intel just keeps finding excuses 🤐 and being bro with Userbenchmark.

@DragonOfTheMortalKombat

15 күн бұрын

I don't think userbenchmark has anything to do with Intel and also AMD wasn't really at fault for exploding CPUs, mobo manufacturers were with their insanely high memory control voltages.

@johnd.1618

15 күн бұрын

@@DragonOfTheMortalKombat Have you seen "reviews" from userbenchmark where it says that Intel is more stable, higher quality and AMD hardware should be avoided? No? They are pure comedy.

@CanIHasThisName

15 күн бұрын

@@johnd.1618 That's not the point. The point is that even Intel doesn't really approve of userbenchmark. That side is run by someone who most likely has mental issues.

@FuburLuck

15 күн бұрын

​@CanIHasThisName You misspelled "a large Intel stock portfolio".

@johnd.1618

15 күн бұрын

@@CanIHasThisName Mental issues, financial gain, both, who knows?

I’m assuming this now invalidates any previous baseline benchmarks performed, maybe?

Push it to the limit Walk along the razor's edge But don't look down just keep your head, or you'll be finished Open up the limit Past the point of no return Reached the top, but still you gotta learn how to keep it

@itsuadman

14 күн бұрын

A+ I sang it in my head

If Intel at least using the baseline profile in their presentation then I can see it kinda okay (but really not okay since they did allow it), but they didn't. For example, the Cinebench that Intel posted shows that 14900K multicore is 1.06 faster than 7950X and from what I see, 7950X scored around 2050 to 2090, thus Intel with 1.06x multiplier should score 2173 to 2215 which it can't achieve without using more than 254W! AMD does use PBO in those benchmark, but from looking at The Verge benchmark, 2058 score can be achieved with the CPU using 224W of power (within AMD spec of max 230W) while their 14900K score is 2194 using 324W of power which is definitely above spec and again, this is the number that Intel use in their own presentation! And no, Intel is not comparing actual baseline (as in purely non OC state, thus 125W) vs AMD actual baseline because if they did, 14900K will lose by a mile. So basically Intel is being hypocritical. Right now if you buy Intel CPU expecting to get the performance shown in Intel's own presentation, you're not getting it with baseline profile. In other words, they are lying about their performance to those costumer that purchased 14900K (or any other K model), running their processor out of spec just to get the win. For Intel to not be lying, they need to allow mainboard partners to default on these unlimited power setting and keep replacing any CPU that run into instability because of it. They can't just say "run the baseline profile if you encounter instability" since with baseline you can't get those numbers from Intel presentation, thus lying.

Intel's spec is really quite simple: it improves benchmark scores > in spec It crashes > out of spec

Moving forward all Intel benchmarks should be run using the "Intel baseline" parameters, Intel asked for it and now their gonna get it.

@vladimirlastname2682

7 күн бұрын

I am eagerly waiting for it

PL2 of 4096watts? god damn i knew i needed a nuclear power plant

@Hardwareunboxed

15 күн бұрын

It just means no limits.

@alrecks619

15 күн бұрын

not really, it just allows for further overclocking.

@disco.volante

15 күн бұрын

Relax, it’s a bogus number. No Intel CPU uses 4096 watts, obviously. 😅

@prosecanlik4296

15 күн бұрын

​@@disco.volantemaybe not, but maybe motherboards pushed CPUs a little too far when the power limit was removed and when the CPU needs more voltage for a given frequency, it just gives up, can't handle that and there you go, instability

@DragonOfTheMortalKombat

15 күн бұрын

@@prosecanlik4296 Given how high the frequencies were, Intel was going to run into this problem sooner or later. Intel 7 node was initally made for the 5.2 Ghz 12900K. That some node has been used for a 6.2Ghz processor. Any good overclocker will tell you that this much increase in clockspeed is simply not sustainable for everyday use. It is way too unstable unless you increase voltage a lot which is harmful to the processor. On top of that, all these CPUs will happily go to 100C before downclocking or throttling.

7800x3d users must be laughing their asses off right now. holy hell.

@jamesdavies686

14 күн бұрын

Laughing more at Pat's "rEaR ViEw MiRroR" quote. AMD has done nothing but eat their lunch since.

fantastic coverage, thank you. In particulat 8:36 highlighting how much performance AND importantly, power usage changes with the more stable profile.

I've always run my 13700k on asus with the multicore enhancements off and a small undervolt, because at defaults it would hit thermal throttle basically instantly under any kind of load. Intel went nuts with the power stuff on these.

@josephlai99

14 күн бұрын

BIOS default enables MCE is the biggest problem on all motherboard manufacturers..... normally home user won't touch bios setting actually......😢

@boy-who-likes-bats

6 күн бұрын

what is mce? really really worried that my 13700k is going to die now 😭

@barrym426

5 күн бұрын

@@boy-who-likes-bats Multi-Core Enhancements, It's what Asus calls their default over the top power settings in the BIOS, other motherboard manufacturers have the same thing but presumably by other names. Switching off MCE sets everything to "Intel Stock" power settings but.... as mentioned in all the coverage, what actually is a stock setting is pretty vague. I never dug into exactly what turning off MCS changes, but at the very least it sets PL1 and PL2 to 253w, similar to the "Intel baseline profile" I can't recall seeing what it did to other things, like the svid behavior, iccmax or whatever else. But at the end of the day, all the reports have been around the i9s. I haven't seen any reports of issues with the i7s, and I'd imagine many more of those have been sold, so problems would have higher visibility.

@boy-who-likes-bats

5 күн бұрын

@barrym426 ah, hm. i don't remember if i touched mce when i set my pc up for the first time, but i do remember pl1 and pl2 being 4096 at one point, but i've never seen cpu wattage go over 250 during any load, synthetic or gaming or otherwise. it's been stable and reliable for me for now, i know my chip runs a bit slower than a lot of the oc guys have theirs, but it doesn't get much hotter than 80C, rarely ever. just really not looking forwards to having to buy an entirely new cpu if mine decided to die one day.

This fiasco has certainly reduced my expectations from arrow lake now. They are definitely in HUGE trouble.

@pedro4205

15 күн бұрын

Since 12 gen they are just cranking up the power to get a perception of better performance. Since 13th gen i thought that it couldn't be infinity and the next architecture should have problemas with it (14th gen uses the same).

@BNOVA

15 күн бұрын

Yes I am curious how the next gen if CPU will fare. They are already removing hyperthreading to get more performance and should use lower power by removing some instructions. However will that be emough?

@m8x425

15 күн бұрын

@@pedro4205 the 11900k was a crackhead too

@pedro4205

15 күн бұрын

@@m8x425 Yes, but a single generation doesn't show a pattern, And by that time it was still under 200W

@anhiirr

15 күн бұрын

the sheer amount of tinkering/work b-die memory/tuning "REQUIRED" to get INTEL to be compeititve/superior to its competitior....is just too hard to justify this last 5+ years. 9th gen already took out HT unless you got a 9900k....and again...youre spending as much as an entire GPU/SKU "jump up" on a kit of B-die memory...to get the "MOST" out of your intel k chip....meanwhile zen2 was meh with "FLAGSHIP" range gpu...bottlenecking esp in 1-2 core load engines....so ppl had no choice but to go inel....up until zen3 launched....then the choice was 11900k+bdie...the cost/thermal needs etc....vs something like a 5800x cv optimized....and huge $$$ budget towards a larger/faster GPU vs going the intel route talking same BUDGET. NOW in 2024....you also need to add budget towards a HIGH/TOP tier PSU 12v rail/internals etc...for what these powerdraws are looking like with 14th gen. Oh you updated your bios or bios+chipset..and your previous ram/cpu oc/settings are now crashing SHUCKS well lets just act like this isnt COMMONPLACE for anyone pushing their INTEL k chips...that we largely market/release primarily for this purpose. XD

Thanks you very much for all those technical infos!.

@brunogm

15 күн бұрын

Hey, one other angle is with this type of test one finds what games are frequency sensitive so one can refine or go deep in the methodology!

thank you for clarifications . 🙏 👍

Wonderful reporting and clear explanation of this issue. Thanks for your hard work as always!

Whats the differance between the new "baseline" profile and the old "enforce all limits" profile?

Isn't this the same craziness that you were banging on about when you were monitor Steve?! Modern systems man. Go with Intel and you're not running hardware in spec, go with AM5 and your system boots up like a 1980s Compaq or go with NVIDIA and melt your mother flipping 12VHPWR connectors off.

@NadeemAhmed-nv2br

14 күн бұрын

Am5 has solved the boot up issue went from 2 mins to like 20 seconds for me after the updates

Gamers : why are we getting the 'insufficient vram' error? Nvidia : It is Intel's fault. Intel : It's your motherboard's fault.

thanks for the vid, it would have been great if you included the 7800X3D and 7950X benches to the table for an easier comparison, may be in next vid.

Ohhh spicy video, can't wait for certain comments to bash these findings

@Hardwareunboxed

15 күн бұрын

To bash the findings you'd have to ignore the facts, so you're right it will happen :D

@domm6812

15 күн бұрын

Yeah. There was a comment made immediately after the vid was uploaded ...a 25 min video. They couldn't have watched it.

@wertyuiopasd6281

15 күн бұрын

​@@domm6812Intel fanboys are the most pathetic. Amd fanboys in my experience are a bit less annoying overall.

@Leerzej90

15 күн бұрын

you will see those comments in X lmaoo

I have a 13900k and didn't know this was an issue until a few weeks ago. I manually tune my system to stay within my comfort zone for silence and under 80C so that might be why I don't have any issues. I'm glad this is being brought to light and hopefully makes intel rethink their view of just pushing more power to make it look good. Hopefully I didn't jinx myself because I said I don't have issues... Would rather not have to deal with a CPU/motherboard swap haha.

@lenscapes2755

15 күн бұрын

Same here. First thing I've done after setting up my 13900k was to limit turbo to 253 Watts manually, I've been running it like that for two months, recently undervolted the core -060 mv as well. Its quiet and trouble-free since then.

@JoshM7

15 күн бұрын

​@@lenscapes2755 I think I pushed mine hard for a bit seeing it sip 350-400w doing some 6Ghz silliness. But that was pushing the temps up to 90-100C (liquid cooling barely keeping it in check) For daily I it's at 300w PL2, and 256w PL1 and can't recall my undervolt setting. But with that it typically sits around 80C when fully loaded in my hotter than most peoples rooms. (75-80F) This chip really needed the undervolt as that alone lowers the temps by 10C-15C for me. Which in turn lowers the power draw. I'm excited to see how the CPUs of 5 years from now perform. As long as this CPU doesn't crap out on me I don't see me upgrading for at least that long. Maybe even longer if the market gets stagnant like the old days where it was just quad cores for years and year with barely any changes.

@shrimpwalk8230

14 күн бұрын

I keep the 4096w but use BLCK 100% so clocks only go up to 5.5ghz. Maybe I'm wrong but it seems to me it wont draw nearly as much power this way but is still able to provide enough power to keep stable. I have experimented with 330w limit though but found some instability. I would imagine the locked clock speed keeps it from pushing too hard.

@darreno1450

13 күн бұрын

I think intel has known about this issue and just didn't care. Bottom line is no one should have to fiddle with the default BIOS settings for long-term stability. Under-volting for lower temps is fine, but it should not be the go-to for stability in a non-OC situation.

@JoshM7

13 күн бұрын

@@darreno1450 💯

All future CPU reviews should be done using Intel's baseline profile!!

It's interesting to see again just how far the power curve these CPUs are being pushed. It was cool to see the 14900K running at less than half power and half the temperature and getting 75% of the performance. I loved that AMD acknowledged it from the get go with Eco Mode for Ryzen 7000.

I really wish at least one motherboard partner would have came out and said we cannot in good faith support the unlocked 13th and 14th gen CPUs. There is no way to build a motherboard and a cooling system without going to excessive extremes to keep these processors safe.

"We're going to be very crisp in our definition of what the difference between in-spec and out-of-spec is." You know what else is going to be very crisp? The CPU, after running at those wattages.

For those having these crashing problems, in the System log part of Event Viewer, does the error Kernel 41 show up? Also, is WHEA-18 or something similar listed along with it? Does a Blue Screen occur before the reboot, or is it just a random restart?

I have iccmax set to 307a and PL1 and PL2 at 253w on a 14700k and getting Current/EDP limit throttling in XTU should my amps be set higher?

One of the takeaways is to continue to avoid Gigabyte.

Can we get stability tests between the 3 boards/profiles?

@Hardwareunboxed

15 күн бұрын

With my chip it's pointless, my chip is stable using unlimited power, probably because I've not used it much (or it's a good chip).

@shraf2kay

15 күн бұрын

@@Hardwareunboxed similar results with 2 of mine. But I've been running mine at or near 400w for a year with no instability. Running an EVGA KP z690 and Asus strix z690. In fact the only instability I had was going over 7200 xmp on ram. Strix is running 6000xmp and EVGA is running 7200 now and it's solid. I wish we had actual data from these unstable setups because I think there's more to it. Things like ppl running 4 dimms or "Hero" voltage to try and hit 8000m/t on 2 dimms. Sadly the pitchforks are out and the villagers smell blood so we'll likely never get real results.

@zodwraith5745

15 күн бұрын

This would be the real test. With how much outlets love to clickbait this shit you don't know if it's 50 CPUs or 50K. None of the i7s or i9s me or my brothers have built have had stability issues, and I don't personally know anyone that burned up a 7800X3d or 4090 either. Doom and gloom gets clicks and Intel is a juicy target to take shots at.

@PCstonks

15 күн бұрын

i recently did this, Asus Z790 was worst, cinebench didn’t even start

@Akkbar21

15 күн бұрын

@@zodwraith5745exactly. How wide spread is this issue? Releasing the bios isn’t because everyone is failing. So again it’s unknown I guess.

"when you sacrifice stability for performance, you deserve neither" - benjamin franklin

Great video. At work we've been implementing our own version of the baseline limit for almost 2 years. Even the best waterblocks couldn't keep up with these chips when unleashed. Its been frustrating having to set customers expectation on 10-15k water-cooled system they can still see 100c in same situations. Some convert to 7800X3Ds and thank us after the fact. but those who don't some always complain even after we set their expectations. We're a little scare for what's to come with the next gen flagship intel cpu/nvidia gpu combo.

Oooh cheeky wee sunday morning one. Its like when GN listened to ASUS and sarcastically ran the AM5 socket completely stock everything and showed how performance was lowered 🤷

I like how soyo and maxsun have better temps than anything else

@user-fv1hc1pn4b

14 күн бұрын

I am using a Soyo (basically a rebranded Maxsun) AMD B550 board. Other than the initial pain with the BIOS (am not sure who's at fault here, me or Soyo), it's been running excellently with great temps and stability. Decided to try out Soyo because of good memories of the original Soyo back in the 90s and also good reviews from youtubers about the board.

@jonjon3829

14 күн бұрын

@@user-fv1hc1pn4b I never heard of either of them until now, from what I can tell they both must be fully chinese brands because they seem to only be available from aliexpress, but both are worth to look out for.

I got a 13700KF and a gigabyte gaming x mainbord, can I just set the power limits manually according to the spec sheet or will that void warranty or break stuff?

@yotoprules9361

14 күн бұрын

Yes you can manually set the limits to whatever you want.

Any more info about this "overclocking bit" inside the CPU? Is it something that gets permanently flipped, or can somehow be checked? I'd imagine XMP flips the bit too. Just wondering if it's something that could implicate warranty.

Wow, and some Intel 13900k fans telling me choosing the 7950x3d for lower power consumption doesn't matter... Lower temp, no throttling almost, stable (and now just for 1 year), lower power bill, less expensive cooler required, might last 7 years unlike Intel i9. I'm sad for Intel customers.

@paradoxicalcat7173

9 күн бұрын

I've been watching the 12/13/14th gen users complain for ages about stability, and how 80+ deg. C is "normal" and "OK". AFAIK the laws of physics never changed, and neither did the materials used in the processors, so 80+ deg. C is getting very close to melting stuff. It is now making sense why these things are running so hot and so power-hungry. It's not that they need to be; it's because Intel want performance at literally any price. The price in this case is system stability and greatly reduced component life.

This only makes the KS situation a lot worst, wow.

@randomguydoes2901

15 күн бұрын

And they have a bunch of them. 13900KS, 14900K, 14900KS, are just bins on top of the top bin. For this, you get the privilege of supporting the company with your money.

Good video Steve. I do wish you had stressed the potential danger of setting these profiles though given they increase ACLL so much and hence core voltage. Setting SVID Behavior to Intel Failsafe on my 14900ks results in a voltage in bios of 1.63v!!! Looks like you ended up at 1.48v for your 14900k.

Thanks for this video explaining the situation.

How is motherboard BIOS settings that push a CPU past its intended operating limits ,which results in the CPU crashing, Intel's fault? My 14900KS is perfectly stable, and has been from day one... BUT, it depends entirely on what revision of BIOS your using. Im running at 8000mhz 24hour stable memory speeds and the CPU is functioning with zero stability issues.

@richard-davies

15 күн бұрын

It's Intels fault mainly because the intel baseline is not usually the default setting out of the box. Intel made the CPU so they should be enforcing the baseline power limit as default. Any changes to this by the user is then the fault of user if the CPU degrades. AMD just had a similar issue with 7000 series CPUs frying because they didn't make board partners enforce a voltage limit and let the board partners push things way too far. Intel and AMD really must watch these board partners from now on to make sure they don't push things way out of spec because it's bitten both of them in the ass.

@andersjjensen

15 күн бұрын

The motherboard manufacturers have to sign a contract with Intel to get chipsets and firmware to build motherboards. So Intel has all control in the world over this. But they want to write "TDP: 253W" on the box of the CPU (so it doesn't look too bad) and then have the board blast the CPU (with plausible deniability) to win benchmarks. So yes, it's Intels fault. Very simple. Nvidia doesn't allow their partners to just do whatever with their GPUs (much to the frustration of EVGA, but that's a story for another day). To get an OC VBIOS signed by Nvidia (otherwise the OS driver won't talk to it) the board partner has to send Nvidia the VRAM layout and component choice along with a standardized performance test of the cooler. Intel has the power to do this too. But they chose to make it very opaque what who is actually defining what "TDP: 253W" means in any particular case. For reference: Not a single professional desktop machine from HP, Lenovo or Dell runs Intel processors differently from Intels "guidance values" (And trust me, I've checked a fair few). Because corporate decision isn't made on benchmarks in popular media. In this environment power consumption actually matter, and 5-10% performance difference gets easily washed out in service contract details. So here Intel are magically honest and proper professional. Who would have thunked!

Thanks man, would be nice to see the gaming benchmarks of the 7800x3d vs 13900k/14900k with the new baseline bios updates.😀

@paradoxicalcat7173

9 күн бұрын

7950X3D. 7800 is meh.

Last year the MSI default settings on Z series motherboards would pull 220w on Cinebench 23 on my I5 13600K the latest bios pulls 170w. (I undervolted it so it pulled around 150w back then)

13700 here with a U12A. When I first got it, I noticed temps up in the 90's with the default power limit. I think I set PL1/2 to 125/150 after that and haven't had any issues since. But I did wonder why the heck they put those power limits so high by default.

Yes…EVERYONE gets blame, including all the greedy folks overpaying for all this stuff.

HOLY CRAP! Antec! i havent seen them for ages. Good quality.

@herbertwalter8693

9 күн бұрын

let's see what their shot at an o11 clone can do

This was a clear demonstration of the issue, and it cleared up a lot of questions I previously had. Awesome work

I built my new PC around 45 days ago and have been struggling to get stability with the 14900kf even to this day. I bought the msi z790 gaming wifi plus and I'm wondering now if this has good enough VRMs, I think the power phase on it is 14+1+1 if that helps?

@NadeemAhmed-nv2br

14 күн бұрын

Not your mobo, it's ur cpu, undervolt/clock it to i7 lvls, turn off xmp and run ram at native ddr5 5600 which is what the processor supports without xmp as thats considered oc'ing and u should be good

@club4ghz

13 күн бұрын

If you don't sync all P-cores to always run at the same frequency it will overshoot to 1.6v and crash cause vrm can't keep up. If you have all cores synced and you crash under heavier loads like BF 2042 at high fps, then you need more voltage, like 10 or 20 mv so not much more. Weak vrm can cause crashes when overheating, direct airflow on vrm heatsink could solve the issue if that's the problem so you can test it out.

i've been waiting for this

Seems like every product released has some kind of issue, be it intel, AMD, Nvidia. Everything just seems so rushed and poorly thought out. Would rather wait longer and have less issues.

@lucidnonsense942

15 күн бұрын

Welcome to late stage capitalism, citizen. The more things break the more you have to spend to keep them running - it's a win win for everyone, well... not you, obviously - but you're doing your patriotic duty, driving up consumption!

@DragonOfTheMortalKombat

15 күн бұрын

Nvidia didn't have any issue, that bs power connector used by PCIe standards did. What Nvidia did do wrong was they shoved and forced it down our throat.

on my gigabyte z790 aorus elite ax board (13700k) when switching to intel POR(🤷‍♀) makes the limits go to 253, can you confirm and if so what does this setting really do? what is intel POR?

It looks to me that you have new camera for filming, picture looks superb!

@inkredebilchina9699

15 күн бұрын

that's AV1 encoding on KZread since a couple of days ago.

I am so glad i ordered amd 7600x to upgrade from i9 9900. 🤗

@MiGujack3

15 күн бұрын

I think the 9900 was far from obsolete for it to be upgraded should've went for the 7800x

@samarkand1585

15 күн бұрын

For what it's worth, these problems only happen to the top end intel CPUs

@misterijaaaa

15 күн бұрын

@@MiGujack3 7600x is still much better for gaming then i9 9900(nok K) and i just wanted to switch to am5 with affordable option atm. Next upgrade will be zen5 9000 series AND i don't have to change my board. No real brainer for me for sure.

@MrBeast1901

15 күн бұрын

@@samarkand1585I have a 14700k and it’s a problem

IDK mate, the one's to blame is surely AMD. AMD's parts being so power efficient made intel pursue the same performance without the efficiently, causing all this stability issue. Without AMD we would still enjoy super stable intel CPUs, which might be a little slower and lack some half the cores.

@auritro3903

15 күн бұрын

...what did i just read

@kenshirogenjuro873

15 күн бұрын

@@auritro3903a wealth of very gentle satire

@auritro3903

15 күн бұрын

@@kenshirogenjuro873 ah, touché

@MartinBanak

15 күн бұрын

And 4 core ones at that...

@inkredebilchina9699

15 күн бұрын

and of course a 32 bit only, no any 64 bullcrap.

Will you be doing a fresh set of benchmarks of the 14900k vs the 7800x3d now?

@paradoxicalcat7173

9 күн бұрын

Why 7800? I want to see 7950X3D.

@rustedhammer533

9 күн бұрын

@@paradoxicalcat7173 either works. Most people just consider the 7800x3d the best amd cpu for gaming since it doesn't have issues with having to ccd.

when do consumer protections step in?

meanwhile in MSI, they just said to set CPU Cooler Tuning to air cooled to limit it to 253w T^T

@WrexBF

15 күн бұрын

It means that they are confident with their BIOS settings.

@NANOTECHYT

15 күн бұрын

As someone with a 13900k and MSi board I can say it works. You get similar performance to the ASUS profile shown here for 253W and it dials back the voltage and heat quite a lot. If it's at 4096 it will push voltage above 1.5V and will hit 100C. At 253W it's a 10-15% drop in performance, hovers around 1.38V and it runs at like 80-85C. I think MSI bios acts different to ASUS and Gigabyte but I could be wrong.

@chelsea9320

15 күн бұрын

They clearly did mentioned another step to select “intel default” under CPU lite load control option. But this will use higher voltage compared to MSI’s default option. Not sure whether it’s better to switch to intel default for this step..

@BreakingDimes

15 күн бұрын

Thankfully I've been running that since day one and it runs like the Asus boards profile in this video

I wonder how a certain chaser youtuber will react to this situation, unlike a mythical nonexistent problem with amd he made up, this thing is truly can be called Inteldip

@blegi1245

15 күн бұрын

Too busy scamming his audience 600 bucks for unstable intel memory overclocks.

@kenshirogenjuro873

15 күн бұрын

@@blegi1245nah, he’s just too ethical to do any such thing. His principles are too high. He’d never lower himself to that sort of behavior. He says this about himself in his videos. We should all believe him when he says things about himself like that that no one asked to hear. 😂

@thenerdysk8er

6 сағат бұрын

What did i miss 😮

I have a gigabyte board.. the same one you were using to test (apart from the X), i9 13900k, I've decreased the voltages and mutilthreading gives me about 37k with temps of 88°c roughly... Is this safe? I haven't had any black screens, crashing (that i know of) or any errors... Note im using a 420 arctic argb aio

Very interesting discussion. Well done.

Inb4 an intern at Gigabyte just mistyped 215w as 125w and they called it a day and shipped.

This is definitely Intel's fault. They were just about encouraging motherboard makers to push these CPUs because "bigger bar better"

So I have one of these i9s that is crashing .... I did do the bios update to the baseline choice, but the damage is done. I am livid, is there any change or exchange process I can follow up with? I have been building PCs for 30 years. I am a IT Director, with a firm.. so its not my first go around. 790 ASUS board and i9 KF NO OVERCLOCKING but yeah. This is crap...

The new bios also affect I7 chips as well. My 13700K seems to be less than it was once I updated the bios.

i feel happy with my beloved 9900K

@lateralus6512

15 күн бұрын

I was looking for one of those recently. In New Zealand people pay about $400 NZD used, while the 12400F is $240 NZD new, and it out preforms, with much lower temps.

@club4ghz

14 күн бұрын

Upgrade to 4080, 4090 and you will no longer be happy.

I have this problem for almost 3 years ago for intel CPUs in my workshop from 12th gen to 14th gen because it consumes a lot of power and my customers complain about the heat it goes up to 95 degrees in any 360mm aio or 420mm liquid cooling system 😢 and i decide to lower the power consumption of the CPU or limit the overheat temperature protection to 80 degrees and that's works for me some customers doesn't care about the frequency of the cpu they care about the heat and some other care's ...I tell them the performance will be less about 7 % and they are satisfied for that ....everyone is happy ...they happy 😁 me happy ....for every build i build it for intel CPUs and I believe the common enemy for electronics it's the heat More power = more heat More issues..unstable.. crashes ...for me it's like overclocking unless you have the best power stages or best VRM components and best cooling system to gain this much power

Assuming electromigration is causing the degradation, current is actually the issue, not wattage. A fast corner CPU could run at a lower voltage but higher current and be over the damage limit while under the wattage. Eletromigration doesn’t really happen until you cross the current limit, then it’s exponential.

Still thinking about that floating mug at 6:12 (yes its probably something behind processor hidden that its on top of but don't ruin the fun)

Who to blame: 70% Intel, 20% Board Manufacturers, 10% Reviewers for not doing power-normalized benchmarks by default (which motivates Intel+Co to do this stuff)

@renerant

15 күн бұрын

What are power-normalised benchmarks? Top Gear doesn't limit supercars to 500hp for their lap times, why should reviewers start limiting stuff?

@mazing87

15 күн бұрын

Can't blame reviewers and that isn't fair if they were included. They do their work with the impression that "stock" means out of the box, pop in and run tests. As a consumer, I appreciate that more than for them to go in and make any adjustments. People who buy these parts are not rushing home to tweak BIOS settings to "power-normalize" anything. Imagine the outcry if reviewers were to make changes prior to their benchmark findings. Then they would be labeled shills for their preferred pc parts to perform better.

@Geno1isme

15 күн бұрын

@@mazing87 Of course they should still also do benchmarks with stock settings. The issue is that most reviewers only do those. Due to that issues like this linger in the background, and only get real attention when things blow up. The truth is (as can be seen here) that at a cost of 5-10% peak performance Intel could reduce their power consumption and heat dissipation by 20+% (and any user could easily do that by customizing the limits, but very few peole realize that).

@Geno1isme

15 күн бұрын

@@renerant Yeah, why the f does GN do noise-normalized tests, they should just ramp the fans up to 100% ...

@mjc0961

15 күн бұрын

The fact that you assigned any blame to reviewers means you're wrong.

One of the big problems of relying on online reports of crashing games it that games often have serious bugs anyway and it's hard to distinguish between the game crashing because of it's own problems or the underlying hardware.

@Hardwareunboxed

15 күн бұрын

This is true, however there's a lot more to go on here with multiple companies conducting investigations and all pointed at K-SKU 13th and 14th gen CPUs being the problem.

@CaptainScorpio24

15 күн бұрын

​@@Hardwareunboxedmy AVX 512 enabled i7 12700 non k with asus tuf z690 plus wifi d4 at the cost of single i9 12900k in india is still going well since launch jan 2022 😊

@predabot__6778

15 күн бұрын

@@CaptainScorpio24 Glad to hear it -- but... the issue seems to be with 13th and 14th gen CPU's though... not 12th.

@zalomalo

15 күн бұрын

​@@CaptainScorpio24You dont use the intel Ddr5 controller

@leonro

15 күн бұрын

​@@predabot__6778And it's K-series CPUs that suffer from this, since those are overclockable and the motherboard basically overclocks them out of the box.

just update the microcode? you have a fully configurable fpga inside it. or you should have.

Thanks Steve, the K series had a higher price premium on 2nd hand market but now I feel like I've got to take them out of my saved searches if there's going to be an influx of instable chips at too good to be true prices. Already saw a listing stating their non-k processor came from a workstation that doesn't ignore power limits lol, they'll say just about anything to make a sale. I feel like any weird default voltage behavior would've shown up in your mobo VRM roundups?

I already knew how to adjust the power profiles in the BIOS, but just for giggles I updated the BIOS on my z790 Dark Hero. Originally current limits were flat out unlimited. Intel published new profiles showing 307 amps and 400 amps. When I updated the BIOS, the Intel default current limit was set at 280 amps. This whole mess is all over the map.

@devans83

15 күн бұрын

I'm so confused about the 280 as well.. At this point, I don't know how to adjust the settings to make it stable.

@daviddesrosiers1946

15 күн бұрын

@@devans83 I haven't had any issues at 253W with the 400amp Icc max. Any kind of overclocking and I have to walk a very fine line. That said, I don't have any problems running the E-cores at 45X just for a little uplift on the cheap. I'm also running a slight undervolt on the cores and the cache domain. usually -0.15 to -0.20. Your mileage may vary.

I would like to see how the new power limits compete against AMD, because they were neck and neck before… Is this going to give AMD a much more pronounced and felt performance lead?

@kenshirogenjuro873

15 күн бұрын

Yep, but with power limits still all over the map, how to decide what MB to go with? Talk about a mess…

@andersjjensen

15 күн бұрын

HUBs last 7800X3D vs 14900K said the X3D is 3% faster.... at 1080p... with a 4090. You shouldn't get the 7800X3D because it's a hair faster in unrealistic scenarios. You should get it because it's cheaper, uses half the power, runs perfectly fine on a $35 tower cooler and can pin any realistic GPU to the sealing.

Okay so I updated my MSI BIOS (MAG z790 Tomahawk WiFi) and I found only a single new setting, and that was with CPU Lite Load settings. Before, the BIOS set it to mode 12 and that ran kinda toasty, but now it defaults to mode 9. However, there's now a new "Intel Default" setting for it so I tried that. Weirdly, it ran cooler than even mode 9, which I thought was intel recommended spec previously. Unfortunately there's still no Intel Default setting for PL1/PL2 and it was still defaulting to 4096w. I change it to the recommended 125w/181w on my 13600KF and it actually seems to maintain my performance. (I did a test in Cinebench and it maintained my usual ~23.5k score.) So thankfully the lower/mid tier CPUs seem unaffected by this change and hopefully I get more stability out of it. Thank you for all of this info as I would have never thought to update the BIOS for this. The board's BIOS changelog doesn't seem to specify this change.

MSI boards have had the option to use Intels reference power settings. BIO menu go to advance - > OC - > cpu tuner setting and select box cooler.