We, Europeans, have to be independent from other players in space business. Europe needs it's own human capable launcher. I support every idea in your video and the book you were holding. More money for ESA. Go Europe. 🚀👍

@daskampffredchen9242

Жыл бұрын

I think in general Europe needs to be more independent. Our politicians are easily swayed by countries like China or the USA

@sunnyjim1355

Жыл бұрын

@@daskampffredchen9242 Yeah agreed... but good luck with that: The US didn't occupy Europe post WWII just to let you do your own thing, and the Nordstream pipeline is just one small proof of that.

@fractalelf7760

Жыл бұрын

@@daskampffredchen9242 Someone has to make you focus.

At least from an American perspective, I am heavily rooting for your cause and for European space independence. It is always saddening to see that ESA astronauts always have to essentially hitchhike for rides to the ISS instead of taking their own car so to speak. And competition always drives innovation. Whether it be China the U.S. Russia or Europe, I want to see everyone on the moon! Competition through technology and cooperation through politics and diplomacy are the golden ticket to a great future! Go ESA!

@urandomr8335

Жыл бұрын

ISS was built as a cooperative project. There was no reason why every party should have its own "car". In future, the situation may be different.

@Spaceguy-nineteensixtynine

Жыл бұрын

@@urandomr8335 Agreed but independence is always good. I mean, imagine if the US had waited a few years before the commercial crew program. With all the Ukraine stuff, we would’ve basically been locked out of the ISS by Russia preventing us from using the Soyuz.

Great video as always! Much love from Italy 🇮🇹

@ShadowZone

Жыл бұрын

Mille grazie!

@GiulioVonKerman

Жыл бұрын

Me too ❤

@Angus_McDonald

Жыл бұрын

Lo stesso qui! forza Europa!

I'm working at a company in Germany that produces some of Europe's best machines that produce all sorts of other machine parts. As such, I am hugely interested in a massive increase in ESA activities, since my company will very likely make a big indirect profit of that. Thus, (and also because I am a huge space-nerd) I take pride in saying that I believe that this Union should commit itself to achieving the goal, before these ten years are out, of landing a person on the moon and returning them safely to the earth!

In my view it's entirely possible for Europe to pull this off. America went from "Blew up their first satellite two seconds after liftoff" to landing on the Moon in 12 years. Saturn V took about eight years to develop, and Europe has a much better foundation and significantly more experience than NASA did in the 60s. The question is more whether it's _probable._ NASA achieved amazing things in the 60s on a very tight timescale, but they had basically a bottomless budget and the full support of the government, who were themselves motivated by the need to beat the Russians there. But as soon as they _succeeded,_ Nixon slashed the budget. Apollo 18-20 were cancelled, and since then, NASA's projects have been shaped by the lack of funding. The shuttle's design was heavily influenced by their need to get support from the military, and it can be argued that all fourteen shuttle deaths are the result of these design choices. The ISS arguably happened mostly because NASA couldn't afford to build the Freedom space station. SLS is the Saturn V and the shuttle's fucked-up flipper baby, because they couldn't afford to develop something wholly new, and the Artemis project actually getting to land on the Moon leaves NASA at the mercy of the world's richest Redditor. _If_ ESA could get Apollo Money, then they could do it. After all, the hard part of actually working out all the numbers is done already. If the sole goal is to put boots on the moon and plant a flag there to say "We got here!" then they can copy Apollo's homework and the only thing they need to wait for is rocket development. If they want something more on the scope of the Artemis missions, then it'll be more complex and more costly than that. The other thing is the politics of it all. With Earth itself screaming toward the brink, a lot of people are understandably focused on trying to fix our shit on this planet before we start on other ones. And that's a fair approach to take. Especially when much of the headline-grabbing things in space exploration these days are the personal space programs of oligarchs who are either not widely beloved by the public to begin with (Bezos and Branson) or pissing more and more people off with every passing day (Musk). For people who find themselves debating whether to buy food or pay rent because they can't afford both, looking at these three assholes who are all rich enough to own their own private rocket companies doesn't light the fires of inspiration in their eyes, it makes them think "Fuck this, fuck them, Robespierre had a point." At this point, I half expect China to get there first. I know relatively little about China's space program, maybe they're having a bunch of issues, but I feel like it's going to take an "enemy" getting there first for the US government to get the kick up the arse it needs to start giving a shit. ESA probably won't manage it, as much as I'd like to see that, just from a lack of motivation. But goddamnit do I really want to see the EU flag planted on the Moon, just so I can point at my fellow Brits and go "That could've been us but you listened to Boris fucking Johnson!"

@ChaHous

Жыл бұрын

The EU doesn't fund the E.S.A and the UK is still apart of the European space agency.

@clayel1

Жыл бұрын

an amazing rant

@MinerBat

Жыл бұрын

uk is still part of esa even if not in the eu since esa and the eu are officially two entirely different things

@ChaHous

Жыл бұрын

@@MinerBat exactly.

@DistracticusPrime

Жыл бұрын

As a USian, I want more competition. If anyone else is available it's a win for everyone, be it ESA, India, SpaceX, or UK Royal Navy. NASA needs that "kick up the arse", exactly as you said. China's advantages have the effect of crushing innovation. India has the most potential. However, the giant leaps performed by (relatively) small commercial businesses like SpaceX and Copenhagen Suborbitals are evidence that relying on our governments to innovate is a dead-end. Governments will be customers for the forseable future.

after that whole rant section I wish i could like videos multiple times if I live an average life it will be damn near 2100 when I die and when I do i want to see habitation on Mars the positivity in your tangent has really helped me focus on the good in this world

‘It’s a bit of a messy situation’ - perfectly explained

Great video! Today there is no shortage of science/space communicators laser-focused on shiny rockets on the other side of the ocean; it is great to see that somebody is taking the trouble of covering these topics, even if less "pyrothecnic", that would otherwise be overlooked

Excellent coverage, thank you. All is not lost, there is still hope for a brighter future for our children and for a post-scarcity economy for our grandchildren.

I am an American, but I actually haven't been this excited since the Polaris Program was announced. I am super excited for Europe and would love to see a cis-Lunar capsule with a modified ESM launch on an LEO and Moon rocket along with a European lander. Go ESA!

Good luck from America! I believe the more independently space capable nations/groups the better.

I'm pretty sure we *could* do it. We have seen many examples of large groups of people, i.e. large states like the U.S., and sometimes non-national entities as well, jumping such a large capability gap in such a short time; the only deciding factor is wether or not we actually decide to *do it.* And this means no half-measures, no crying about costs, no stopping after a major setback, and no external help (by which I mean things like materiel and/or technology transfers) to interfere in our own learning and development processes - We must do it alone to stand a chance of overcoming this gap; without the feeling of a large threat of being left behind, we would never succeed, as humanity always blossoms under pressure, as long as that pressure is made noticeable to the average moron, and not kept a corporate secret for decades (looking at you, Oil companies).

UE already have R&D funds for companies. Company where I work uses such funding. UE and ESA should create large space R&D fund for space startups.

The new space race is unfolding well. And accelerating a lot.

Man I want to go to the EU summit in November 2023 stand outside and wave sign that says "TO THE MOON OR BUST!"

@alisapanda

Жыл бұрын

Do you know where it is?

@Fishbeings

Жыл бұрын

@@alisapanda Could not find the address probably not released yet there was one early this year in Rotterdam. If I can't find the address I'll just go to Brussels to EU permanent

You are completely right! Thanks to know that there is at least another person with the same attitude than I have. Thanks for this video

Big dreams which usually get strangled by regulation and “empathy” projects, so I’d be amazed if it happened. Not to be cynical, but as an American married to a European I see both sides, and there will be a lot of talk and little direct outcome. There is a “we could do it if we wanted” sentiment all too often that is the final word in the EU these days.

Europa moon mission in one decade is a massive undertaking. I think it can be done.

I'm ready to pay 10x more to ESA as that small money I'm currently paying.

I am an American, but I really hope Europe pulls it off. The more crewed space programs that exist, the less likely that crewed space exploration will again suffer a long hiatus. If one country or congress/parliament pulls the plug, that will leave plenty to fill any gaps they leave.

It is truly a tragedy how little we’ve been doing in space and I have the feeling, that it’s most probably not going to change for a while. We in Germany of course have the DLR, but no one in the German parliament truly supports the idea of developing a space capability of Europe and therefor Germany. As long as the lack of political will in the largest countries of Europe and especially Germany is not going to diminish, i see no potential for a significant future in space wether on the moon or anywhere else. Just look at the DLR social channels, to to put it lightly: Almost no one one cares or knows anything about space and it’s potential, many people don’t even know all of the planets in the solar system. There really is not interest in space and even if politicians would aspire to do big things in space, people would go on protests and scream out, how „space is only a billionaire joy ride“ or that „it’s a complete waste of money“, without considering how it would improve our life on earth.

knowing how quick Europe is at figuring out a budget.. and agree on anything.. I feel 10 years is VERY ambitious xD

As much as i would love things in ESA would change(maybe i could get a job in space sector without emigration!) I have REALLY hard time trusting any ambitious annoucements from ESA till something actually takes off.

Hello from Europe, I think it's a typo mistake: Europe Flying to the Moon without NASA in "10 Years" => read "50 Years" 1- Learn to build a spacecraft able to orbit the moon (not yet done I think) 2- Land on the moon (like China did) 3- Return to Earth (like China) 4- Build a habitable vehicule for LEO (to learn the manned transportation on Space). 5- Extend this vehicule for deep space and test it around the moon 6- Big lunar lander + back to moon orbit 7- Assemble all stuff 8- Test it / Fail / Correct / Try / Fail / .... You know... 9- Successfully tested ! 10 - Land on the Moon !!!! About 5 years per steps ! = 50 years ! Example of SpaceX : if all goes well, SpaceX will be able to put humain on the Moon in about 2027 => 25 years after its creation (founded in 2002). So, If we are able to reach the "0,5 x SpaceX", we can do it in 50 years (finance & political issues included?)!

9:50 this is the hardest part btw, so congrats to him, if he can achive that

13:10 That is why I hate some politicians that keep saying "Only 12 years" or stuff like that Then these people will shift into overdrive and come up with total nonsense that wont solve anything

I'd be happy if Europe did develop their own hardware, but there is absolutely no way they will. By the time they get around to it, private shuttles to the moon will be available.

Shaddow, what graphics card is better to get for ksp 2 ? On paper amd cards may be better due to more raw power needed for physics computation, but i don't really know...

7:30 15 years would be ambitious, but with the neccesary funding doable, but 10? This is probably what we have to do, but like with other important things, we are just way to much behind

i don't think it has only to do with money but much more with clear targets and objectives that we identify and stick with it. Building blocks and making strong steps in the right direction. I think Europe if determined can do a moon landing even sooner because you need what... a capsule under 20t and a lander under 20t than 6 launches of ariane V and constructing the spacecraft in orbit... Doesn't sound harder than making something like the ISS to me. But Europe doesn't have the will to be leader and make big projects at the moment except unifying the charger under usb and pushing for heavy electric cars. That said i really hope i am wrong and that there is a future for space.

Come to think of it this reminds me that we will likley be able to build a space elevator in a few years. I wonder if india will do so as in most of the sf books or if it will be a us project. or even ignored in favor of rockets which are still pretty damnned expensive if you suddenly turned all rockets into a starship equivilent that can do everything and a little more than starship should be able to do.

I agree and count me in: with work, education of new generation or money. But. I live in Hungary... you probably guessed I'm not "comforable" to speak up, especially if it involves politians... That's aside if I could get any job oppurtinity in space business for ESA (it's SPACE so not about money) I'm willing to move (within EU) if I need to. Why are there only UK or US jobs online for a C++/infra developer? This should change!

How do you view the topic of human discretion after we gained the capacity to go to other bodies? In the past, we have done things like not sending a rover that 15 miles to a possible water site because we weren't sure our rover wasn't decontaminated of earthly life well enough. Do you think we will have that amount of discretion and care when we can go there much more cheaply?

As someone from europe that really wants to work for a rocket company I really hope that we get some more xD

14:48 the issue is, that those people decid it on the base of their decade old opinion and are oblivious to new stuff. Like the German Meme of Angela Merkel about the Internet being constantly over many years new territory

Weird how people don't know, how much advanced european companies in space industry are. There is no question if Europe can do it. It definitely can! Only question is, if we want to pay for it.

At least they are making some nice CGI.

agreed, we should go back to the point where failures were counted as success and continue to progress and not immidiatly getting " cancelled " because..... money -_-

As long as regressionism exists, nothing is possible.

Shit man, that was motivating

I will play the devil's advocate for a moment. Of course, Europe should invest much more in space and space technologies, but why should being a leader in space research must automatically mean to have technologies and infrastructure for manned flights? Before the space economy kicks off and becomes profitable, robotic research might have much higher potential than human presence. Isn't it wise to skip the entire manned program and focus on the essentials, that is, the acquisition and processing of extraplanetary resources, instead of just planting flags?

@ShadowZone

Жыл бұрын

That's a very good counter argument! But, here's my counter to your counter ;) Space exploration needs money, money that is usually provided by national governments. National governments need to justify their expenditures. And I would say it is easier to spend money to send "our astronauts" to explore than some robot the majority of taxpayers cannot relate to. Human beings are - contrary to their own belief - not rational decision makers. And that's why human spaceflight sparks more enthusiasm.

Du bist aus Wien??? 😲 Hab Dich immer für einen Engländer gehalten 😅

@OCinneide

Жыл бұрын

He has a thick Austrian accent though?

5:14 I thought Ariane 6 was also a step to humanrate it?

@ShadowZone

Жыл бұрын

Yes, but first it has to fly at all. Which is still a while away.

This is the first time I have heard about europe even having a manned mission on the drawing board so right at the hard video I am going to have to say no. They are not getting themselves to the moon in a decade. We basicly only managed it with a semi-global effort and wartime conditions. Especially considering that europe is a very unsafe place to launch rockets from and that the eu is only slightly stronger than the un in terms of cohesion.

Really hoping this is gonna happen, we europeans have been falling too far behind the americans! More space more better i say.

It’s such an embarrassment the EU doesn’t have their own human rated capability…

I woud love to but I consider it unlikly but if we get a seat on that NASA lander I would not complain eahter.

i think Josef Aschbacher and Alanis Morisset tapprove this video 🥰

The US could learn a thing or two from Europe about political will. Yeah ESA isn’t going to be flying on their own to the moon in 10 years. But you do have the political will to do things like oh I dunno: Healthcare.

Already allot more believable than any of Musks timelines

Italian here. The European space program is a shitshow, mainly because Europe doesn't give a toss about it.

4:25 Elon is not SpaceX CEO. He's the chief engineer. Gwynne Shotwell is the Chief executive officer and she's the real power behind SpaceX

@ShadowZone

Жыл бұрын

No. Musk is chairman and CEO and also CTO. Shotwell is president and COO. Who really runs the show inside the company is a different matter.

Europe is a no-can-do has-been

Humans are going to fly again to the moon after forgetting how to fly to the moon. Go Europe?