Another very peceptive presentation by Dr Richard Denniss. Allegra Spender somewhat hamstrung by the politics.

Richard is amazing with how he communicates

Incredibly eloquent & insightful discussion and one that is desperately needed in Australia. Shame as per usual at the NPC the Murdoch stooges ask the predictable q's.

We are too GUTLESS or SELFISH to dismiss Negative Gearing, Capital Gains benefits. and we are unwilling to risk our private wealth to allow inflated proper prices to return to some level of affordability for low-med income earners. No one seems willing to give in. It will not go on like this without some increased level of crime, civil unrest and mental health issues.. We can ALL see the cracks developing and think only about the security of ourselves and OUR private property. Want to live in a Safe society? As many fellow Australians descend into greater levels of economic hardship and disadvantage, domestic violence, drug and alcohol abuse, gambling, stealing, we have to ask ourselves: Are we willing to: Make it a fair(er) Society? Because this is Not working for most people.

I caught a few minutes of Richard Dennis's speech earlier today and he has some very good points. But the Norwegian and Denmark Governments are far more representative of, and accountable to, their people than in Australia. That's how they can tax more and hence deliver more, because they are far more compelled to answer to the people. Whereas here, our Governments have to answer to the big end of town first and foremost.

@windwaker0rules

4 ай бұрын

You can make them more accountable by not voting first party, plus the main reason the got such a big deal was because they were next to communist countries during the cold war. Can't oppress people who are next to countries that are overthrowing oppressive governments.

@leonie563

4 ай бұрын

Probably helps that:- Denmark is in EU/EEC umbrella Norway is in the EEA and probably also getting trade as a result....context is everything

@jinnantonix4570

4 ай бұрын

@@leonie563 Correct. Also Norway and Denmark and Qatar are much closer to their trade partners, Australia suffers from the tyranny of distance.

@geoffsaunders5030

4 ай бұрын

@@leonie563 Denmark made sure they got paid for their oil. Their sovereign wealth earned approximately 150000 USD per family of four last year. Good management is everything!

@Banana_Split_Cream_Buns

4 ай бұрын

@@leonie563 there are plenty of nations in the EU communities who are neither Denmark nor Norway.

Regional People in Australia are struggling more than anyone. Lowest income earners live in Regional Towns. Where's National Party Leader David Little proud ? Will the Nationals join the Liberal Party to Vote against the tax cuts to low& middle income earners? Let's get one thing straight The Liberal Party doesn't represent Regional & Country Australians.

@satiricgames2129

3 ай бұрын

To be honest with you and this is from a 20 odd year card carrying member of labour is I don't think any of them do not even close enough to vote for them like I ain't voting

I can't fathom how Costello or Howard would be illustrated at visionary luminaries...

@MaggieMaggie-wo4bv

4 ай бұрын

exactly absolute TURN OFF when mentioned those two

@bsidgwick

4 ай бұрын

Haha yes she revealed a bit about her political philosophy with that line.

@bonghead6621

4 ай бұрын

Regressional visionaries who through work choices effectively destroyed all the hard one conditions generations fought for in one fell swoop.They also succeeded in making millions of workers believe that big business and their managers have their best interests at heart. Add to this the perpetuation of the more educated myth where more degrees equals better education and it's a clean sweep for those at the top where degree waving idiots can't comprehend the insidious nature of Neo Liberalism and how costly it is to society yet in the early 80s guys in my smoko shed who were illiterate,I wrote their smoko and lunch orders, understood the intent of government and business to create modern serfs.

@jameswyatt631

4 ай бұрын

Probably just the GST

@jinnantonix4570

4 ай бұрын

Howard and Costello reformed taxes and by doing so completely paid off Australia's national debt.

The Australian press should be embarrassed by the quality of the host and the questions at this debate.

@wadejohnson3051

4 ай бұрын

I'd say they should be embarrassed by his bias. But why do you think they should be embarrassed?

@Knightmair19

4 ай бұрын

@@wadejohnson3051his bias?

@wadejohnson3051

4 ай бұрын

@Knightmair19 the line of questioning the MC goes though seems pro stage 3 in full and how he tries to cut Richard off before getting the nuanced answer to his question. It has a very liberal biased.

Lol first question instantly in quite bad faith. Richard literally painstakingly described that Australia is a proportionately high income taxing nation because we dont receive tax revenues from a myriad of other streams and that if we did, income tax as a proportion of the tax base would decrease. Yet, as soon as the Q&A starts hes called a hyprocrite and has to repeat the thesis of the speech he was just asked to make as if Probyn ignored the whole thing.

@bsidgwick

4 ай бұрын

Felt Probyn was disingenuous there, he knows better.

@PeterTodd

4 ай бұрын

knows better? Do you think so?@@bsidgwick

@wadejohnson3051

4 ай бұрын

Right, and then trying to move on quickly so he couldn't give an explanation

@katejudson8907

3 ай бұрын

Probyn is working for a private enterprise, the nine entertainment media network company masqeurading as a news . That's his lane. Why the public has to pay to see him host Press Club? ?? The gold standard Laura Tingle must be taking a break.

Brilliant analysis and presentation by Richard Denniss of the Australia Institute.

HECS fees go toward subsidising the oil and gas industry, nice to know our priorities are right. And just a thought… who does the research that helps cure disease and cancer? Bet you it’s NOT the oil and gas industry.

I think it's important to point out that really wealthy people aren't in the slightest bit concerned about income tax, as their lifestyle is funded through debt that is funded against the value of the collateral (assets) that are held by the banks. A capital gain of the value of the assets needs to be imposed at the point when this type of loan (i.e. not a home loan) is taken out...

I can see why Probyn was sacked by the ABC, this is just not good enough on his part. It is shocking just how base the discourse is here, you can see just how much journalism has been co-opted in the dumbing down of the debate about social and economic policy. Richard's barely concealed contempt for them as propagators of the corporate line says it all.

Absolutely brilliant discussion. Cheers.

Probes, you can't say that they didn't solve anything after outlining all the critical issues with our system and fair/appropriate fixes...

Richard probably knows the source, but I distinctly remember seeing a chart showing the actual tax rate many pay once all deductions are passed through the Accountant and ATO. It was obscene at only around 13%. If i find out that's many people in higher tax brackets, any further whinging about 27c or 30c will fall on deaf ears. That a woman usually, starts a new job tomorrow knowing she cant get any Jobseeker while looking for a job btw (Partner Income Test), means she's odds on to be paying more than the $75k+ contigent and pretty much all the Trusts and SMSFs. America yet? Looks like we going that way. Waiting for the Fentanyl zombies to walk around Potts Point just to show Australians how filthy we are. I dont recognise this country anymore!!!!!!

Love (not) how politicians allow themselves the title honourable when most are anything but. This lady seems to be an exception.

15:30 imagine earning a lot of money, therefore probably more intelligent than many others, and factoring in a tax cut in advanced before it starts and could always change. If you’re in the bracket that gets less of a tax cut and it hurts you with this change, you need a budgeting coach urgently

@windwaker0rules

4 ай бұрын

imagine earning $150k+ a year living in Wentworth and still not being able to afford a property

@bsidgwick

4 ай бұрын

Yeah that line was rubbish. Who writes a budget years ahead and factors in a tax cut. If losing a $9k tax cut is going to ruin your home ownership dreams, maybe stop renting in Bondi for a couple years.

@DrumsBah

4 ай бұрын

​@@bsidgwickexcept they aren't even losing 9k. They're still getting 4.5k back lol

@baronvonaux8294

4 ай бұрын

People planned because the stage 3 tax cuts were legislated and had been through two elections. Entirely reasonable to plan on such a basis.

@baronvonaux8294

4 ай бұрын

@@DrumsBahGreat…even after the tax cut I will stay pay $90k in tax this year and have to listen to people that pay $5-10k in tax complain about how I should be happy to pay more. People in the bottom tax bracket that want to complain can get stuffed as far as I’m concerned. I’m sick of the whinging from people that barely contribute themselves.

Wow 30% tax rate compared to europe which is like 28%, such a massive difference. We got to be more like the UK right with their 19% and collapsing infrastructure?

@MaggieMaggie-wo4bv

4 ай бұрын

reality many do not pay that amount & or how many pay zero. Corporate, Wealthy, Bankers, Miners BUT ordinary workers pay the most proportionate to their income & have very few deduction & certainly no incentive payment

@windwaker0rules

4 ай бұрын

@@MaggieMaggie-wo4bv my point is she is saying we have a crazy high corporate tax rate where the difference even on paper is like 2%

Richard Dennis: *explains in detail how we aren't high tax and reliant on personal income tax Every journalist: "Since we personally pay too much tax...."

Alegra Spender - once a liberal always a liberal...

Eminently reasonable

Well said good talk! One thing that is never mentioned is demand for housing, we always speak supply supply but hey if we didn’t import so many people every year we wouldn’t have such high demand on property. Other things Allegra spoke about equity mate negative gearing is massive massive big deal! Thank god someone is talking some sense

My two new favourite people telling it as it is

Tax cut would encourage casual and part time workers to work more hours happily....more tax revenue in the end ...

Can't afford a $900 p/wk in Bondi? Neither can most of us. Maybe just move somewhere more affordable?

@katherynmunis7915

4 ай бұрын

My God, move Bondi renter, you could get a mortgage for that amount for rent

Allegra: people relied on the stage 3 tax cut to go ahead in full. Remembering those on $180,000 "needed" to get $9,000 back. Me: If you can manage your finances being in the top 5% of income earners in Australia, youre the problem. Who can people on $45K be able to manage their finances better? Maybe you dont deserves your high income. @47:00

@baronvonaux8294

4 ай бұрын

This is everything that is wrong with our country, jealous bitter people that want to pontificate to the people that are actually paying a huge volume of tax. You sir also can get stuffed.

@geoffsaunders5030

4 ай бұрын

​​@@baronvonaux8294there are classes available to improve your social skills sonny

@wadejohnson3051

4 ай бұрын

@baronvonaux8294 Just for some clarification, what is it I am jealous of? I think you believe a progressive tax system (one where those who can afford to pay, pay more) is the problem?

@geoffsaunders5030

4 ай бұрын

@@baronvonaux8294 pompous little man child. 🙄

@baronvonaux8294

4 ай бұрын

@@wadejohnson3051 Not at all...but our tax system isn't progressive, it's punitive and grossly, grossly unfair. Look at some actual facts: Someone earning $50k will pay less than $7000 in tax (and that's before the range of generous subsidies and benefits like FTB and childcare) whilst someone that earns $200k will pay over $60000 in tax and have no access to any subsidies or benefits. That's nearly 9 times more tax despite earning 4 times more. The data shows that most people earning $50k actually pay less than $5k tax in real terms which means it's more like 12 times more tax in real terms. It's a joke, and the stage 3 tax cuts was good policy to deliover some relief to those shouldering the lions share of the actual tax take. Now none of the maths really bothers me, but the intolerable whinging from low income earning, low tax paying people is infuriating. If you want to have an opinion on how much tax others should pay when you contribute almost nothing then time for a look in the mirror.

Note this guy was a former Greens advisor so his views are tainted. Saying Albo has been watching for 2 year? He’s dreaming. Albo was focused on the Voice and didn’t look at the cost of living crisis until 12 December.

The cost of living crisis is temporary? The cost of living crisis is real everywhere every day to millions of Australians. Wanker!

No one mentioned stress on services infrastructure society with the continued increase immigration population growth. Fact too many Aussie cannot find affordable secure housing less less service but ever increasing costs

@CatastrophicalPencil

4 ай бұрын

We have had affordable housing at times of great immigration. Immigration in itself is not the problem. It can exacerbate the problem but is not the cause.

@CatastrophicalPencil

4 ай бұрын

@@visions.of.excess if it was about demand, regional towns that are declining in population would have low house prices. They do not.

@visions.of.excess

4 ай бұрын

prices ARE falling in regional areas@@CatastrophicalPencil

Excellent. If you want more money in peoples pockets then you have to provide free or cheap services, like health, education, welfare, early learning etc. and you have to reduce taxes. To do this and balance the federal budget you must find alternative tax streams to suplement tax revenue and so we must tax all resources and reign in the tax minimising multinationals by taxing revenue. Not that different to PAYG tax system. If you earn a buck in Australia, you will pay 10c in tax regardless of who you are or what your expenses may be. Simple and effective.

“You know?”

Clearly this dude does not run a small business as I do , I pay about 20 different taxes - so they need consider state and local government taxes

@windwaker0rules

4 ай бұрын

do you though?

@steveremington

4 ай бұрын

But the scope of this discussion was FEDERAL taxes.

@geoffsaunders5030

4 ай бұрын

Can you name all 20 please?

@geoffsaunders5030

4 ай бұрын

So once again can would you mind stating the 20 taxes you pay Dude?

@geoffsaunders5030

4 ай бұрын

Apparently, you think your employees and the general public are illy enough to believe anything you say as well.

Not once was it mentioned that the Stage 1 and 2 tax cuts went to low-med income earner, and the high-end got nothing.

@BarzulRei

4 ай бұрын

Temporary verses permanent, the debate is about changing the tax system, not about short term benefits that have already concluded.

@jinnantonix4570

4 ай бұрын

@@BarzulRei Sure, and there was very little substance from the speakers as to what exactly they wanted the reform to do. Tax pollution and wealth? What exactly does that mean, and what would be the ramifications?

@BarzulRei

4 ай бұрын

I think if they went into details it would bog down their speech and make it way too long and no one would pay attention to it. I would assume you would have to look at what the Labor government tried to implement back during Rudd and Gillard to get an idea of what type of 'tax' it would look like, that or as Richard stated, remove subsidies for fossil fuel. I am not versed in wealth tax so you would have to look into that yourself I guess the best way, initially especially, is to ensure the tax system is working as intended by closing off all loopholes, especially those that companies and wealthy people take advantage of, then we can look into making the system more equitable. I for one would love for our resources to be owned the same way that Norway owns its petroleum, that would be huge IMO. The ramifications of those arguments of those taxes you speak of, would be more money for the government to (hopefully) invest in society. Regarding pollution, it would force companies to actively look/invest in cleaner solutions as they won't be taxed as heavily, leading to a net healthier country. As for the wealth issue, it is usually the way better off people that are able to take full advantage of these things, and it will receive some grumbling, then they will get used to it and the rich poor divide will shrink, which will then lead to a socially healthier country. @@jinnantonix4570

@jinnantonix4570

4 ай бұрын

@@BarzulRei there are no $11B in fossil fuel subsidies, the claim has long been debunked. The rebates on fuel excise and dual us infrastructure are not subsidies. The ATO is constantly looking at ways to ensure compliance with tax laws, eg has successfully sued Chevron for tax evation. Tax avoidance is not as bad as people think- eg did you know the gas industry pays the gov $13B pa in tax and royalties. Plenty of money which should go to a future fund, but is mostly wasted on unwarranted entitlements. Addressing inequality by taxing the rich does not make us healthy, education and job incentives for low income groups eg lower taxes, is much better.

@BarzulRei

4 ай бұрын

What are the unwarranted entitlements you mention? "Excessive inequality can erode social cohesion, lead to political polarization, and lower economic growth" This is a direct quote from the IMF, social cohesion is good for a heathy society. I do agree though that education and job incentives are good and will also help improve our society, lower taxes I don't think is the answer, using the money to make health cheaper by returning Medicare to what it was before the Liberals privatised Medibank would be a fantastic step, maybe also investing that money into free childcare would be a massive positive too for low income workers, that would put more money into the economy because workers can work more which means more tax revenue (probably more than what goes out for the childcare cost).

Do we have low productivity because we don’t manufacture anything!

We need to abandon neoliberalism!

Simple, housing commissions in every state!

Tax the worker not the wealthy? What? Tax the rich. Most of them would be more than happy to pay!

More reputable people! Who are they?

Tax the multinationals now!

How many houses do you own Allegra?