Please note that I have also supplemented this with an article where I go into alot more detail on some issues, especially how sufficient grace and the universal call relate to reprobation: shorturl.at/1a9je

Thumbs up just for the thumbnail.

Better to hope than full on despair

The Thomistic view on predestination scares me, not predestination generally.

@asimpleuser123

2 ай бұрын

There is not only one Thomistic view on predestination; also, there are thomists who believe the more radical ante previsa merita thesis, others who believe post previsa merita, and others that, even though believing in the ante previsa merita thesis, they believe also that God takes into consideration what you would do before choosing to elect you or not. [it is said that God takes it into consideration because it wouldn't force God to elect you, but he takes that in mind].

@marteld2108

2 ай бұрын

Dont be afraid. The official teaching of the Church is that God wills all to be saved and He gives all of us sufficient grace to be saved.

@christsavesreadromans1096

2 ай бұрын

@@marteld2108 The thomists interpretation of this is that the sufficient grace is no longer sufficient after the fall.

@marteld2108

2 ай бұрын

@@christsavesreadromans1096 Then the Thomists are wrong. I follow the Magesterium not Aquinas.

St. Ignatius my beloved ❤

It doesn't terrify me, because I know God has given me everything that I need to get to heaven, but God wants me to cooperate with his sufficient grace with my will to get there. So better to strive for holiness and pursue God with all our heart now then to worry about if I am reprobated, because if I am reprobated, it's my fault alone.

The doctrines of hell and predestination horrify me. I was a philosophy professor for five years, and I still can’t conceive of how these ideas can possibly be just. Nevertheless, as a Catholic I still begrudgingly accept them on faith.

@thomasthellamas9886

2 ай бұрын

“Still cannot conceive of how these ideas can possibly be just” Just drop your moral intuition concerning justice and responsibility and the conception is quite easy.

@colbytheresa4504

2 ай бұрын

I think when you're telling people to ignore the movements of mercy and pity in their soul, and talking about how it's good for everyone to feel "predestination anxiety" something somewhere has gone off the rails.

@thomasthellamas9886

2 ай бұрын

@@EmberBright2077 Ah. C.S. Lewis. Great Man. Fantastic writer. A Christian brother I am excited to see on the other side. But I don’t really like Lewis as a philosopher and definitely not as a theologian, respectfully.

@thomasthellamas9886

2 ай бұрын

@@EmberBright2077 He is stating his opinion. He isn’t making an argument. I can’t exactly refute an opinion. If you want to make an argument I can engage but all I can do with this is say “I disagree” which isn’t what you are asking for.

@alonsoACR

2 ай бұрын

Edit: before you read my post, I want you to know that the Church doesn't have a doctrine regarding how many people actually end up in hell, if there even is any. It's TECHNICALLY possible to conclude from Scripture that Hell will be empty. However, at the very least, God clearly wanted us to think that there would be a punishment or a reward at the end of our life story. It adds fuel to the desire for evangelization. What can't be argued out of is that, while hell MAY be empty, ALL are potentially damnable, but we don't know. What is doctrinal is this: God won't ever give unjust punishment. Trust in this. It is just. It's hard to explain, but worth studying. I just want you to remember one thing: it's better to exist in hell than to not exist at all. This was understood intuitively by people before. Somehow, people seem more comfortable thinking that annihilation is better than damnation, but that's not the case, or I think so the case, and I personally hold that most ordinary people think so as well. There's also the point about God not being a puppetmaster. It's impossible to say "God, why are you making me do this?" because that would mean God created two opposing wills. Not the case. If you do something, that's your will and yours alone, and your will decided to sin, God simply foreknew. He's not controlling you. The guilt is upon you. Did God make some of us ordered or predisposed to damn ourselves? No, God made us all generally ordered to Heaven, but some of those he made he knew would freely choose Hell, as he knew the nature of their wills. Yet, He created them as well, as not creating them at all would've been worse. This is crucial, God wouldn't do something unless it's good. Last point, but crucial. Almost every time you try to apply an adjective or a verb to God, it's an analogy. God isn't quite like us. It's futile to reach an understanding on why was it necessary and even optimal for there to be a world like this. Anyway, that's the gist of it. If this is still disturbing (though I don't think it should be, after you digest it) there are plenty of other schools regarding the nature of predestination. Some more palatable, I think. Not all conclusions drawn here are necessary conclusions, there could be more than one possible answer. May God bless and keep you, and may He have mercy on us all.

What terrifies me is that you blocked me on X for seemingly no reason. I watch your videos a lot so I got all sad and stuff

@eaazag

2 ай бұрын

He seems like the type

@MilitantThomist

2 ай бұрын

Game over. What’s your @?

I'm just trying to understand whether or not we have a choice in anything. I can get behind the idea God knew someone was going to reject Him no matter what so doesn't give them saving grace. But somehow I'm still coming away from all this wondering how we're not just toys being tossed into either heaven or hell with no free will even though somehow there's some amount of free will hiding in this somewhere.

@catholiccrusader123

2 ай бұрын

You have free will but free will doesn't save you grace does and grace is God's to give freely to whoever He wills.

@TheBurningWarrior

2 ай бұрын

God moves us and our actions as a first cause of our being; It isn't that he makes us choose heaven or hell, but rather he makes such a being to exist as will freely choose either heaven or hell, and as the author of history he perfectly knows which it will be.

@ashtree5957

2 ай бұрын

@@TheBurningWarrior Wouldn't that mean God created people for hell?

@TheBurningWarrior

2 ай бұрын

@@ashtree5957 No, but he made people generally ordered towards heaven who would concretely choose hell. (and that, as the omniscient cause of their existence knew that they would.) It is also worth noting that, contrary to our popular imagining, being is always better than non being. It is better to exist in hell than not to exist at all. He gave them (even the ones he knew would choose to reject him) the gift of being, and all of them the offer of heaven through cooperation with Grace which he knew some would freely reject. (note Jesus said it was better Judas never be born, not better that he should never exist. Stillborn Judas would be better off than actual Judas, though the plan of salvation included the greater good over all by tolerating the existence of such a Judas as would survive and make the choice of privation of good for himself.)

@christsavesreadromans1096

2 ай бұрын

@@catholiccrusader123 You need to assent your will to the grace to be saved.

I get it now. Phenomenal video.

@RealCatholicOfficial

2 ай бұрын

True

Predestination 🇯🇲🔱

I just don’t get it. How is this different than Calvinism. How can you have free will if god predestines all your actions. It makes no sense! What am I missing?

@christian3692

2 ай бұрын

Re-watch and re-watch the video until you get it. Basically there are some differences with calvinism. First of all you must understand that God gives sufficient grace for everybody to be saved. This grace is both exterior and interior (motion in the intellect and the will). Those who are damned are damned because they resist this grace. The problem is we are so evil after original sin that we will all resist this grace. Now it doesn’t mean that we will NECESSARILY resist this grace. It means we will CERTAINLY resist this grace. There is a difference between certainty and necessity. Certainty is when you know something will happen for sure. Necessity is when something couldn’t have been otherwise. So here everyone of us will resist the sufficient grace but we COULD have not resisted it if we wanted to but we are very wicked. So God gives an extra grace to certain people so that he may bring them to salvation. This extra grace is called extraordinary efficacious grace. Those are the predestined. In summary : those who are saved are saved because of God’s grace and those who are damned are damned because of their own doing. Those who are saved COULD have been damned and those who are damned COULD have been saved. And this is because both sufficient grace and extraordinary efficacious grace are RESISTIBLE.

@borealopelta7284

2 ай бұрын

@@christian3692 thanks

@asimpleuser123

2 ай бұрын

Calvinism teaches that God positively predestines some people to hell and others to heaven. The more radical Thomistic thesis (ante previsa merita) teaches that God positively predestines some people to heaven, but that doesn't mean the he positively predestines the others to hell, and if you go to hell, it is exclusively by your fault, because all the thomistic views teach that everybody has sufficient grace to be saved, even though only some have efficacious grace to be save. Also, some thomists defend the post previsa merita thesis, which teaches that God, foreseeing your future actions, predestines you based on what you would do. And also, some thomists defend a mix of these both thesis, that is to say: God, foreseeing your future actions, takes into consideration what you would do, but that doesn't force God to elect you. (For instance, when God chastised David with the death of his son after David's sin, even after the his repentance.)

@marteld2108

2 ай бұрын

I was confused like you. Instead of reading St. Thomas find comfort in the Church’s teaching: God loves all and wishes all to be saved. He gives everyone sufficient grace to be saved.

Who is the man in your profile picture?

@christian3692

2 ай бұрын

Fr Austin Woodbury

@christian3692

2 ай бұрын

Fr Austin Woodbury

@santiperez761

2 ай бұрын

​@@christian3692 any book recommendations?

Can a predestined one resist grace?

@christian3692

2 ай бұрын

Yes he can, grace is efficacious but not irresistible. To be predestined means that you will certainly be saved but it does NOT mean that you will be necessarily saved. There is a difference between certainty and necessity. Certainty is when something will happen for 100% because you already know it. Necessity is when it couldn’t have been otherwise. So we know that the predestined will certainly not resist grace but it doesn’t mean that they will necessarily not resist grace because it could have been otherwise. In summary those who are damned COULD have been saved and those who are saved COULD have been damned. That is absolutely dogmatic in the Catholic Church. Efficacious grace is resistible and sufficient grace is resistible.

@christsavesreadromans1096

2 ай бұрын

@@christian3692 Can you resist efficient grace in such a way that you can finally reject the offer of salvation which God gives, and end up not being saved? If no, then that clearly sounds like heresy, as the person has no choice in the matter as to whether or not they’re saved.

@christian3692

2 ай бұрын

@@christsavesreadromans1096 Yes you can, efficacious grace is RESISTIBLE. But if you are one of the predestined we know for sure that you will Not resist it. There is a difference between CERTAINTY and NECESSITY. CERTAINTY is that we know something will happen for sure but NECESSITY is when it couldn’t have been otherwise. So here we know that the predestined will not resist efficacious grace but it does NOT mean that they couldn’t have resisted it.

Is free will determining in predestination and reprobation?

Standard Hasan W

Calvinism teaches that God positively predestines some people to hell and others to heaven. The more radical Thomistic thesis (ante previsa merita) teaches that God positively predestines some people to heaven, but that doesn't mean the he positively predestines the others to hell, and if you go to hell, it is exclusively by your fault, because all the thomistic views teach that everybody has sufficient grace to be saved, even though only some have efficacious grace to be save. Also, some thomists defend the post previsa merita thesis, which teaches that God, foreseeing your future actions, predestines you based on what you would do. And also, some thomists defend a mix of these both thesis, that is to say: God, foreseeing your future actions, takes into consideration what you would do, but that doesn't force God to elect you. (For instance, when God chastised David with the death of his son after David's sin, even after the his repentance and prayers to God to do not punish his son.)

@MilitantThomist

2 ай бұрын

Word Vomit

@AquinasBased

2 ай бұрын

@@MilitantThomist maybe too high iq for u LOL

@planteruines5619

21 күн бұрын

​@@MilitantThomistso , what he said isn't ture ?

Why Hope, Why Nigel?

@TheBurningWarrior

2 ай бұрын

"Why Hope? Why Evangelize?" I assume

@ShaNaNa242

2 ай бұрын

​@@TheBurningWarrior yeah lol