This technically doesn't break the rule because you still had to bring the king to stop the pawns and it wasn't just a lone rook trying to stop the pawns

@Glitch_Real

Жыл бұрын

🤓🧠🧠🧠🤯

@bam38

Жыл бұрын

​@@Glitch_Real 💀

@zanti4132

Жыл бұрын

Yes, as is true for just about every chess principle, the real answer is "it depends" - it depends on the position. Generally speaking, a rook can't stop two connected pawns on the sixth rank, but factor in the placement of the two kings, and there are going to be exceptions to the rule. In the position shown in the video, White has a tricky tactical sequence to save the draw.

@torarne7796

Жыл бұрын

Exactly. The rook can't stop the pawns by itself, but the rook and the king can do it together. Just as in other positions.

@tottenvillelegend826

Жыл бұрын

Truth

I had a chess book with 101 suggestions for beginners to follow. The first 100 were principaled and logical statements, but my favorite one was the last: "In chess, the only way to become master is to know when you can break the principals you have learned".

@mikahamari6420

Жыл бұрын

And then you shred the book and burned it to ashes. 🔥

@andarerYT

Жыл бұрын

​@@mikahamari6420 and snorted the ashes

@zanti4132

Жыл бұрын

"Creativity is the ability to recognize situations where the rules don't apply." --Me

@BorisGamingChannel

Жыл бұрын

@@zanti4132 I love that!

@mikahamari6420

Жыл бұрын

@@zanti4132 That is well said. 👍 Many people think it makes them different when they say "No" if others say "Yes", but it is just echoing others, totally predictable and rule-based behaviour. Creativity and rules are not the opposite, as you said. If everything in Chess was just mechanical following of principles, it wouldn't have retained and grown its success even today. I think top engines solve this "creativity" element by their super fast calculation of variations, because they are not creative. But neural networks have come closer this. I still love to watch the games in which Alpha Zero strangled Stockfish by making its pieces immobilized. At least for human player that would have been very creative way to take the edge.

Great teaching as always, thank you! Rook vs. Pawns is often an interesting battle. The "material advantage" doesn't mean much, when horizontal and vertical movement is not enough and you need diagonal. But as seen here, it is subtle, even one check may change the situation.

Watching Nelson's puzzle makes my day and I'm over the moon when I solve his puzzles. Very satisfying and educational. Chess Vibes should create 2+ videos per day

Such an interesting position! No doubts about why even the rook

chess never stops to be amazing

I wonder whether this position has actually ever occurred in a grandmaster game? Like a game where black calculates that he can trade down to this position, and thinks, "yeah two pawns on the 6th beat a rook", and doesn't analyse any further, then when he reaches the endgame he realises he's screwed up.

"I was wrong about this endgame" Viewers: nah bro, it is too complicated and I don't see it. It's okay that you miss.

I memorized 5-man endgame tablebaseses so it was obvious for me

@Jared7873

Жыл бұрын

Big 🧠 🤯

thanks for this useful advice to use on my endgames

Being a 1300 rated, I'm glad I got it correct

such a nice end game theory, I did enjoy this video a lot

Nelson: I said 2 pawns on the last rank was always winning for the pawns, but that was a mistake, I found a position where the side with the rook can draw. Also Nelson on 11 April 2022: *releases a video called "which position can white win?", in which there is a puzzle where the side with the rook manages to win! 😜 It was similar to what happen after Kg1, where black is in zugswang. I remembered the video, and it helped me find this one. Nice video Nelson

I've read Encyclopedia of Chess Endgames and didn't realize this was in there.

Most of rules in chess have exceptions. There are always some quirky positions that violate rules.

Yay I got this right, it was helpful to practice rook vs king endgame. 😄

i remembered this

I was able to get from the beginning position to 3:34 in my head, but then I couldn't see the move. I found it once that position was reached in the video tho, but that is a pretty hard move to find

Thanks Nelson, and God bless ya

Gracias señor aumentaste mi conocimiento de ajedrez

hey theres an opening named after von der lasa, its the von Der Lasa gambit

I couldn't think of how to draw for white, and found this fascinating!

Brain.exe has stopped working

If they move their king you don’t have to mirror. If you move your rook from f1 to f2 then its forced mate and they can’t run for long and its mate before they can queen

Nelson....you are a really good guy. What I wish is that when you started out with your video, sharing that you had made a mistake, that you somehow could teach a few million people on Facebook, and for that matter KZread and Twitter, to act as you did; which is to admit to an error, and move forward. Good Lord, about half of this country goes nuts if one is merely proven to be wrong, even about really inconsequential stuff. But thanks for taking your time and of giving your expertise that helps many with their learning and pursuit of chess. Lots of good wishes for you.

Off course the rook can stop the pawns if they are not connected.

what would happen if rook went to f4 check?

Thank you

I don't feel like this invalidates your original statement. Any "x beats y" statement in chess comes with an implied "barring special circumstances." I mean, the rook can also beat the pawns if you're in a position to take one pawn on the first move, or deliver mate in 1. This is just a more elaborate version of that.

In short: R vs 2 connected passed pawns on 6th is a win for the pawns. K+R vs K+2 cpps can be a draw.

Nice one Nelson. More Bobby Fischerman please.

in general, it's not a good idea to say "always", which is a good life lesson too, life situations is almost like chess positions

What happnen if A2 first?

What if black goes a2 instead of b2

The exception that proves the rule.

RF1

In the position where the king was on the H file couldn't it have just gone to H8 and promoted their B pawn since it protected the checkmate?

@Dausuul

Жыл бұрын

If the white king is on f7 and black moves Kh8, white simply moves Rh1#. That ends the game right there; black never gets a chance to promote the b pawn.

@flukeog2225

Жыл бұрын

@@Dausuul ah my bad

To me this position doesn't make you "wrong" about this endgame. There will always be some specific situation in which a certain piece will be more valuable than another(s) that in theory should be better. Pretty much every puzzle that involves underpromotion is an example of such case.

Nice one but i guess you miss A2 pawn move after F1

@Dausuul

Жыл бұрын

It plays out the same, except if the black king moves down to h2. In that case, the rook goes to a1 instead of b1. When black moves b2, white responds with Rxa2, and instead of a fork, it's a pin: The b2 pawn can't move without putting black's king in check. So the king has to move, and white plays Rxb2 and goes on to win.

Kd3

What if Black’s first pawn move was a2? Still winning for black then… yes?

@Dexaan

Жыл бұрын

Wouldn't it play out the same, except at the point where you move the rook to B1 to force a pawn move, you move to A1, and then the B2 pawn is pinned to the king on H2 when you take the A2 pawn?

@Dausuul

Жыл бұрын

Nope. As Doug points out, you just pin the b2 pawn instead of forking a2. Everything else is the same.

Rb1

Wouldn't white be able to draw by repetition in first scenerio?

The other guy

can the rook go upside inside of downside

@jennifercheung6464

Жыл бұрын

No

@MichaelHarrisIreland

5 ай бұрын

Yes

y r there dislikes?

A2

@Dausuul

Жыл бұрын

It plays out the same, except the rook pins the b2 pawn instead of forking the a2 pawn.

Cool.

You make too many unnecesary moves.

Hi Nelson, there is another nice sideline when Black pushes the a-pawn first: 1.♖f1 a2 2.♖g1+ ♚h3 3.♔f3 and draw due to opposition, but if Black plays 3...♚h2?, then White wins with 4.♖a1 b2 (4...♚h3?? 5.♖h1++) 5.♖xa2 and the b-pawn is pinned!

@gunsandpolitics5510

Жыл бұрын

I wondered about a2. I missed the b pawn pin! Good catch.

Subsystem

Chess is FULL of exceptions. Here's another guideline that you will not agree with even though it's true. A queen is no stronger than a pawn! Think about it and you'll LOVE Chess that much more.