Imagine wondering why you are not getting knocked out in a light sparring session during your first time in a boxing gym and going “man boxing is disappointing!”

@anthonyhernandez4266

2 жыл бұрын

Well if it's literally your first time then maybe the inexperience is to be expected.

@syn3rgyz

2 жыл бұрын

sums up his whole channel

@anthonyhernandez4266

2 жыл бұрын

@@syn3rgyz you're mad because you wish aikido worked but it just doesn't. That's the only real reason why you don't like him.

@syn3rgyz

2 жыл бұрын

@@anthonyhernandez4266 lol i don't even train aikido what are you talking about. aikido is useless

@pocketstoosumo

Жыл бұрын

@@anthonyhernandez4266 lmao what?

I am a retired Judoka, and every Dojo I trained in, the senior grades would go very gently when doing Randori with a white belt. I guarantee you, if an Olympic level Judoka used his full power against you on your first day on a Judo mat, he would pulverise you.

@stevenharris6626

5 ай бұрын

I've trained many years in Judo, all with Olympians. Judo is a fantastic sport and martial art, but MOSTLY a sport. It is a sport which can be practiced many year, even though old age. There is no end goal for many, but the main goal is to make to National Level Competition and the Olympics. After many different martial arts and sports, I find judo as the most exciting, fun, and one of the greatest sports around the world!!

@obiwanquixote8423

9 күн бұрын

Saw this not too long ago at an open mat. The coach is a long retired Olympian. A guy comes in with a bit of a chip on his shoulder and is going too hard against smaller, less experienced people. Coach steps up and asks to have a round with the guy. You can tell the guy is going really hard. The coach laughs it off and stuffs all his attempts, while keeping it light. The guy gets even more wild, the coach smiles and indicates they should take it easy. The guy doesn't get the hint and goes even harder. Suddenly the old coach flips the switch and moves at full speed and hits the guy with the fastest, hardest tai otoshi I've ever seen. The whole floor shakes. Coach checks on the guy and helps him up, pats him on the back and invites him to come back and train some more.

@CopperBeech777

9 күн бұрын

Haha. Yes I hope the guy learned his lesson!

There is a lot of discussion about Judo's lack of applicability to very defensive opponents. And you discuss it as a negative in relation to Judo's martial application. But it's generally only a weakness if you're the aggressor in the altercation. In most true self defense situations (as opposed to mutually consensual fights) you would not be dealing with a defensive opponent because if your opponent was being defensive there would be no altercation to begin with. Additionally, it needs to be remembered that positions which are considered overly defensive in Judo tend to also be positions that would leave you very vulnerable to being pummeled with strikes in a real violent altercation.

@Ivuspp

2 жыл бұрын

Great!

@alLEDP

2 жыл бұрын

Up with yo for the algoritm

@cesaralvesdemoraes3187

2 жыл бұрын

True

@ransakreject5221

2 жыл бұрын

Someone stiff arming in self defense can be punching u in the face. If u can’t penetrate the defense it’s not good for a fight

@anarchic_ramblings

2 жыл бұрын

@@ransakreject5221 Pretty sure grip fighting is a thing in judo.

Ragdolling whitebelts in judo is like leglocking new whitebelts in BJJ. No Judoka above orange belt would go hard on a whitebelt, or he'd get banned from the dojo.

@joshuakim4769

2 жыл бұрын

Exactly. How can he be a martial artist for over a decade and not understand this?

@Todo_fighting

2 жыл бұрын

This video is dumb.

Rokas - I started Judo over 45 years ago, and I hope that you will not limit your experience to just one or two visits. Shintaro hit the nail on the head when speaking with you about dealing with a white belt. You ran afoul of Judo philosophy. The concepts of "Jita kyoei" (Mutual welfare and benefit) and "Seiryoku zenyo" (Maximum efficiency, minimum effort) were edeveloped as part of Judo by it's founder, Jigoro Kano. As part of Jita Kyoei, when you train with a white belt, or anyone who has substantially less training than you, you have a duty to ensure their welfare and benefit - to ensure that it is a learning experience, not a "beat down." If you had mentioned your background in Aikido and BJJ, and the fact that you were experienced in breakfalls and grappling, although new to judo, they would likely have let you continue to wear your black belt (or possibly a brown belt) and work out. Knowing that you were able to care for yourself, if they knew that you were looking to get "rag dolled" ... or involved in "Heavy Randori," they would have been happy to oblige. But as part of the greater Judo community, Jita Kyoei is important, and we don't want someone to come to a club and just be smashed into the mat in order to satisfy someone else's ego. Keep up the good work and the interesting content. I am biased, but more Judo content would be great!

It’s unlikely a judoka would go for a hard throw on a person wearing a white belt, even if they are athletic. There are usually questions like can they break fall? Are they potentially going to do some awkward attack that can hurt you?I believe this idea is similar in BJJ of catering your approach to the person, but I do believe Judo deals with a higher level risk of injury due to the nature of falling and impact. I am curious if you explained your intention “seeing if you can be actually rag dolled ” if the result would be the same. I assume a persons conviction of attack and intensity would change. It was good to see you speak with a reputable Judo instructor for information of your experience. I think this video does show a good understanding of the separation of sport and martial art and you had a great comparison of boxing and how bjj is also experiencing this “divide”.

@reigninblood123

2 жыл бұрын

Exactly. Make it clear that you know how to break fall from years of aikido and tell your opponent to go 100%.

@osmanacmiyun6023

2 жыл бұрын

dude, they couldn’t take hin down

@reigninblood123

2 жыл бұрын

@@osmanacmiyun6023 Didn’t even Chadi arm bar him from a failed sacrifice throw. I am sure I saw that highlight somewhere.

@Mtripp005

2 жыл бұрын

@@osmanacmiyun6023 Again, sir, couldn’t was not the issue. Didn’t was the issue. Advanced students are not going to crush a white belt. However, go to the Tokyo Police Academy, or any of the Universities, and they won’t care if they hurt you.

@jaymorris3468

2 жыл бұрын

Well said, this guy cannot call himself a serious martial artist until he goes to a serious club, which he definately hasn't, he needs to.

I started Judo and wrestling over thirty years ago as a twenty one year old. During the years, I've gone to several clubs and been thrown heavily and easily by both young and older (50+) judoka no matter how I tried to defend. I've spent thirty years figuring out how Judo throws work and fail against both very aggressive (striking, shoving) and defensive (wrestling, BJJ) opponents. When you visit Shintaro's club, make sure you practice with guys that are experienced at working with defensive BJJ guys and with wrestlers. Judo has to be adapted to the opponent. The stance you take, the grips you use CHANGE the way it works. This is exactly how BJJ works too. I think Shintaro will give you the experience you're looking for. More importantly, try to notice WHY his techniques work. It will open your practice to attacking the opponent's balance instead of power for doing throws AND tackles.

@lp3198

Жыл бұрын

So bjj is better than judo

@lp3198

Жыл бұрын

Will judo work against boxers

@roarblast7332

Жыл бұрын

@@lp3198 it's all about your vision baby.

@Franco.34

Жыл бұрын

@@lp3198 bjj was created through judo and you practice a lot of the bjj moves in judo

@Franco.34

Жыл бұрын

@@lp3198 yes if you get a good grip on him it’s over for the boxer

One more thing I'd like to add, from a perspective of a Judo instructor for 6 years of a hobbyist Judo club: I'd instructed high level belts to go light on low level belts. And I'd encouraged newbies to relax (they never do in the beginning), and get thrown alot first. The reason is Ukemi / Breakfall is essential for safety Judo randori, but it doesn't come easily: a full power throws in unexpected directions to inexperienced Judokas, would caused them to have unconditional reflexes such as extend their arm during fall, or twisting their feet ... which would case injuries to tendons and bones. So newbies need times to transfer from independent Ukemi practice, to standing and being able to break fall from various throws, to lightly resistance randori, to full power randori (or Shiai). If a newbie Judoka hasn't get used to being thrown around yet, he usually tensed up, and being super defensive, and if your partner is not considerating and throw you full force which you are being tensed up and rigid, it would easily caused injuries to the newbie.

@osmanacmiyun6023

2 жыл бұрын

dude this was not going easy one someone.. this was not beeing able to take him down… if he went to a olympic wrestling team they would just take him down softly over and over and over again, without making him hit the mat hard because he is a beginner

@naegling

2 жыл бұрын

Not only that, if you go full power on a newbie, he probably will quit on doing judo

@smb264

2 жыл бұрын

I completely agree with how newbies not being conditioned to breakfalls yet and have awkward reflexes. I actually hurt a newbie because they were very hyperactive and attacking, and I thought "maybe they can take it" and went 50% on a throw... BIG MISTAKE!!! They flailed unexpectedly and hurt their neck! I felt so bad afterwards...

@oneguy7202

2 жыл бұрын

@@osmanacmiyun6023 they literally go easy on him

@SeanWinters

2 жыл бұрын

@@osmanacmiyun6023 Yeah you're wrong, chief. I guess you might not do judo.

He just showed up to Olympic training and did nothing - what a legend

What I love about judo is the culture of taking care of uke. Look at the Okuri-ashi-harai the black belt landed on you, even though it's a low amplitude takedown he still held on to the sleeves and made sure you wouldn't land the wrong way.

Just watching the video it's pretty clear that this was pretty polite sparring and no one was attacking with explosiveness or violence. It'd be like doing light sparring with a boxer and being surprised they didn't ring your bell or turn the lights out. As Icy Mike once pointed out in one of his videos, it's important to realize when sparring when things happen because your partners let it happen.

Where to begin? Obviously if you’re training with the Olympic team rules are going to be a major factor. Naturally, if the goal is to win a medal in sport judo, following the rules is critical. You can’t win unless you do. However the “watered down” comments are simply ignorant. For over 50 years I’ve said “we all have to go to work on Monday.” Avoiding injury is a critical part of effective training. I’ve been doing judo for over 60 years. I’ve ran into overly defensive people for years. When I do I have two choices. I can injure you when I throw you, or I can bow out and play with someone else. A simple search here on KZread and you will see dozens of videos clearly showing why a rule was added or changed. If you don’t care about being injured, I suggest you visit the Tokyo police academy or any of the universities in Japan. They won’t care if they hurt you, but I suggest against it. In closing, your final thoughts are correct. Judo is a very big house with lots of rooms in it. Pick a room you like and stick with it. Good luck.

@Mtripp005

2 жыл бұрын

Oh, PS. In my Uncle’s dojo, if you turtled up, he would run across the mat and stomp on your head, HARD! Many judo people were unhappy about that. He would simply say, if you were in a real fight and did that, what do you think would happen? People have short memories. In the early sixties Japan had to make major changes to their Police defensive tactics. Everyone did judo, still do. But Japan is a knife culture. In a conflict the officer would grab someone judo style, and end up with a knife in the gut. Judo is all about dynamic throws to a persons back. You throw someone face up in the real world, they have full access to a concealed weapon. In police work, you want to throw someone face down. Immobilize, cuff, search, and transport, exactly in that order. Nothing sporting in that situation at all. I can do this all day, but the point is, every problem has a simplistic answer. Usually it’s wrong. God Bless and stay safe

@IphigeniaAtAulis

2 жыл бұрын

I like your observation about going to work on Monday. I do BJJ and I have run into so many people (mainly young brand new white belts) that do not seem to care if they injure you. The current club I'm attending has this problem a little bit. I do wish the instructors would address it. Despite this, I do like the group and they have a lot to offer.

@thomass.4007

2 жыл бұрын

Every high level competitive Judoka would ragdoll every single Judoka from a century ago. They are a different type of athlete now. But no Judoka would ever go hard on a whitebelt.

@osmanacmiyun6023

2 жыл бұрын

they still couldn’t throw him…

@Jiiimbooh

2 жыл бұрын

I don't think that's what "watered down" means in this context. Some techniques were banned in the past because they were dangerous, but I don't see many people wanting those techniques back in competition. What people are complaining about is things like you are not allowed to grab legs when standing up and too many/restrictive rules regarding the grips. These things were not changed for security reasons, but to make judo more spectator friendly.

I would say a few things having trained both judo and BJJ on and off for a long time - With judo, newcomers from BJJ often come in and stiff arm and just try not to be thrown. This is fine, but you'll also never learn to throw if you do this. Shintaro is correct. Imagine in BJJ if you just huddled down in someone's guard and kept defensive. Sure, you may not be swept or submitted - but you'll also never get to practice passing the guard. And in order to become adept at passing the guard, you need to open yourself up to the possibility of being swept of submitted. You will need to fail many times before you succeed. This is the exact same in judo. I started judo in about 2004/2005 so I have seen a lot of changes in judo over the years. Leg grabs, or using your knee to break grips for instance. There is an element of some of it being watered down, but at is very core - it's still a very effective and functional martial art. Just like BJJ has been watered down with lack of focus on takedowns, it is still an effective martial art. I would say to not make up your mind on judo after a class or two. But to actively train and not stiff-arm during randori. Try go for your own throws and sweeps. In the beginning you may fail and be thrown, but that is ok. It's a mindset you need to learn. It is perfectly fine to be thrown during randori. Randori is not competition, it is practice with resistance. But the ultimate goal of it is to give you an opportunity to practice what you have learned. I feel like this is a mindset issue and not an issue with the martial art itself.

@katokianimation

2 жыл бұрын

Have you seen R. Gracie vs K. Shamrock? 30 minutes of hugging on the floor. Daimn how many hours of my training were waisted by stalling. Esspecially in gi. The more time you are getting swept and submitted the better your defense actually will be. And confidence. Wich is essential to aply a technic live. You know who is the one who tapped out the most many times in the gym? The black belt. Try and error and try again until you stop making mistakes.

@Mtripp005

2 жыл бұрын

@@katokianimation UFC V. Sadly it was 40 minutes of hugging with a 5 minute second round. Total goat intercourse. FYI, if you look at the T Shirts Dan Severn’s guy’s were wearing, you’ll see my name.

@naegling

2 жыл бұрын

If anythig i think rules changes have made judo more dynamic. I remember when leg grabs were allowed, stronger muscular guys would just keep their hips low and wait the opportunity to grab your leg, from there it was just a matter of weight lifting. Techniques such as uchimata were very risky for that reason, also i remember morote gari being some kind of spam among beginers. Also, there were more "sub-scores". When i started there was this thing called koka, that was less than a yuko. It basically awarded you for doing lame throws or almost fail throws that today wouldn't get any kind of score. Today's rules really press you to taking the risk and take the offensive, i don't feel like they water down judo at all. I haven't beign practicing judo in a while, but as far i remember, randori with high level competitors was wild, they just don't give you any moment to catch your breath, it's attack after attack until you eventually hit the ground. After watching the first half of the video my impression was they didn't went hard on him because he was a white belt.

@hillweggs641

2 жыл бұрын

@@naegling well said

@MatthewNguyen-zx3de

2 ай бұрын

You also make yourself really shit at actual self defence with that shit. There's a reason you never see anyone do that in MMA- you are getting kneed in the face or snapped down into concrete. Its a position that can only work in artificial rulesets, not something to proudly hang over a judoka lmao. All while guaranteeing you can never throw anyone, because you never opened yourself up to learn it.

Studying Judo 50 years ago. We spent 50/ of the time on the ground. Half of take downs were leg Take downs. Both are basically not practiced today.

@nicholasnj3778

2 жыл бұрын

kzread.info/dash/bejne/lamA27OdnrCXhZM.html

@nicholasnj3778

2 жыл бұрын

these guys have a great page

@Mulberry2000

2 жыл бұрын

i agree.

@theonlyonestanding8079

2 ай бұрын

So I guess I should learn bjj

Judoka white belts do not get thrown around as hard in judo class because of injuries. The teacher can get sued if a inexperienced person died or get severely injured. Also, theres been a lot of deaths in judo classes.

Looking forward the video with Shintaro!

@MartialArtsJourney

2 жыл бұрын

I'll release the full talk with Shintaro on Wednesday 👊 And hopefully get to train with him later this year and film some videos together in person!

@m5a1stuart83

2 жыл бұрын

@@MartialArtsJourney Maybe an insight from Travis Steven also good. But Kama Jiujitsu also encourage their students to join Judo Tournaments. Maybe a good interview from their perspectives are good too.

@michaciemniewski9791

2 жыл бұрын

@@m5a1stuart83 +1

Shintaro made some great points. In normal Judo clubs, generally you gear down when randori with a white belt. In fact, people are conditioned to go light with white belts. It’s different if you are a higher belt. When we had a former Japanese national team member and riot police officer visited for an extended period, our black and brown belts got ragdolled by the guy. You are expected to be able to defend yourself. I am an ok black belt. Not only can I not throw the guy, I was happy when I was able to block his attack. With a white belt, people are discouraged from going hard, and if the white belt is super stiff and super defensive, most folks would just want to get the experience over with. I mean a strong guy can just pick you up and dump you, but what’s the point? You can get hurt, and the experienced guy would look like a prick. Just think about it. No one knows you at that French dojo. If someone makikomis you, separates your shoulder or blows your ACL, how would it look? How well do you speak French? If you are obliviously a foreign visitor, the people there will treat you differently. Also, if the folks are getting ready for a tournament, why would they go hard with a stranger white belt and risk injury? Want the rag doll experience? Be an asshole at randori with someone your size and more experienced. If you don’t get kicked out, you will get hurt. It’s just a weird wish.

@joshuakim4769

2 жыл бұрын

WORD

@bobk480

Жыл бұрын

AGREED!! FINALLY A SENSIBLE COMMENT. at my club they actually went hard against me as a white belt a normal size person. I stuck with it and eventually started to get my judo to work with my body.

Great video! As a judoka myself I came to that same conclusion: There's Martial Art Judo and Sports Judo. The Sports one is fully focused on competitive rules and the "meta" moves of the season; the Martial one (which I prefer) has the complete pack of moves and strikes, and also comes with a few kata, philosophical moments and etc

My dad learned Judo back in the late 60’s and early 70’s and modern sport Judo confuses him. He’s currently training me and none of these rules existed when he did Judo.

@skipskiperton4992

2 жыл бұрын

wonderful….you are fortunate to have your Dad’s experience from earlier Judo

@jestfullgremblim8002

2 жыл бұрын

@@skipskiperton4992 yeah

I've done both Judo and BJJ (blue in both) and they were likely going easy on you. Even with my experience (not a white belt) I still get ragdolled by the very good guys. I'm about your size and get tossed around by guys half my size, especially the short, stocky dudes. If you've done BJJ you probably have a stiff bent over posture like a lot of BJJ guys do. It's not easy to execute a judo throw on someone who takes a stance specifically to avoid getting thrown, but be aware that this also puts you in a bad position to execute any throws yourself.

Brilliant video, as usual! I'd love to see you and Shintaro together!! Cheers from Brazil

Oh my God, underwater water judo sounds like the coolest thing

@MartialArtsJourney

2 жыл бұрын

Haha

Regarding fighting defensive people, remember that the whole point of judo throws is to defend you against attacks. The techniques are not designed to defend you against someone standing there doing nothing.

@MatthewNguyen-zx3de

2 ай бұрын

There are techniques for it actually... they're just really mean to use on white belts.

Roca thank you for sharing your journey of self discovery.

My friend that is absolutely in no way shape or form the French Olympic team. In fact from what I can see there is not a single national team member there let alone the Olympic team. That is a club of recreational judo players, young kids, and old guys. I would encourage you and your viewer's to look on KZread at the French Olympic and national team so that you can see the difference. Like I said, absolutely NOT the Olympic team at all.

Man you didn't get thrown around because you were a white belt. They were going at 10-20% intensity with you

I think it's becoming the opposite of watered down, it's becoming distilled. What that means is, they reduced the number of possible techniques but became super effective on the ones they do practice. Similar to what happened to jiujitsu in Brasil.

@sardalamit

2 жыл бұрын

Damn! That's good! Not watered down- distilled! I'm going to start using that. Full marks for you dear sir!

@cesaralvesdemoraes3187

2 жыл бұрын

@@sardalamit appreciate your appreciation brother

I really enjoyed the video. Good thoughts, good presentation. But at times the music was so loud relative to the speakers that I had trouble understanding them. This was especially true in the Shintaro interview. It's ok not to have music; good content more than makes up for it. Thanks again for a good video.

Hi do you have any advice for me I am wondering whether to train in a BJJ club that doesn't teach takedowns/takedown defense or Judo, both clubs are close to me. I'm young and relatively athletic with a long traditional arts background.

I think being a BJJ blue belt you are far from a beginner and in some ways are equally skilled as some of those Judo black belts. BJJ might be 99% ground grappling but that stuff you learn on the ground still translates to being on your feet to a point where you can at least defend yourself effectively. I went into this from the other perspective. I'm a Judo black belt and just started learning BJJ. What I have found is that I can somewhat effectively defend myself from a BJJ purple belt but I have yet to tap any of them out. I have submitted a couple of blue belts who said im very fast, but a couple of purple belts also got the better of me. Its very interesting crossing diciplines and I'm loving every minute of it.

@lewisb85

2 жыл бұрын

My BJJ professor who is a roger gracie blackbelt actually said a judo black belt is six months away from blue from joining the club, the reason why is because they already have 5-6 years of grappling experience already and an arsenal of techniques to call upon.

@cesaralvesdemoraes3187

2 жыл бұрын

Once a judoka learns to pace himself on the ground and not giving up the back he becomes a force to be reckoned with (in BJJ)

@StateOfMind63

2 жыл бұрын

@@lewisb85 Yeah i think it also largely depends on the training environment and Judo style they come from and what emphasis they put on ground grappling. Some Judo clubs are about 70% emphasis on ground grappling. You will find the 1st Dan black belts of those styles are at least purple belt level in BJJ.

@StateOfMind63

2 жыл бұрын

@@cesaralvesdemoraes3187 I agree 100%

@dktcs

2 жыл бұрын

@@StateOfMind63 i'm start thinking that those judo clubs don't exist in real life..

When I tried Judo in the mid-2000s, the black belts whooped my ass! No mercy. I was getting thrown a couple dozen times per class. One guy choked me out standing with my own gi. Honestly, it kind of sucked. I didn't feel like I was learning, so much as I was just getting beat up

@CaesarSneezy

2 жыл бұрын

Honestly it doesn't sound like those black belts had the right (or typical in my experience) attitude when practicing with a white belt.

I came to judo from another discipline about 4 or so years ago and I have to say, I did get that ragdoll experience. Now it might just that I was simply a worse martial artist than you are, or it might be something else, but either way, I really think that judo, if done in a holistic way, has a lot to offer. Judo still has kata and stuff like that which has both self-defence aspects AND traditional Japanese culture aspects which means a lot to a Japanese culture buff like myself and then on top of that, you still have randori (though I agree that they should go easy on some rules) which prevents it from getting into Aikido levels of unrealistic combat.

Awesome video as always!! I think you should do a similar video about Taekwondo and the "two federation system" that they have; being that the ITF is more "martial art based" and the WT being the "watered down olympic style". It could be quite interesting.

The warm up at the judo class reminded me of the warm up for the varsity training at my son’s high school.

I'm an intermediate judo player, so if I'm wearing my green belt people are going to assume I have good ukemi/breakfalls. So if I'm doing randori with high level players I'm going to get hit with sweeps and throws from every direction. Not at 100 percent intensity, but they're more likely to assume I'm there to learn what it means to play against experienced judoka. And a counter to stiff arms is a flying armbar which is not something you go for on novice players.

I'm a BJJ Brown Belt & Judo Green belt so I will give you my experience. I have had mix experience with Judo and it varies between different clubs i have tossed Judo Brown & Black belts standing and on the ground was no problem but in some rare cases I have been thrown around easy and smashed by some Judoka. I do think all Martial arts get watered down with time but you can still learn a whole lot from Judo and when you get smashed by a Judoka standing you feel like you have been in a car crash. Judo no question is harder on the body. Respect to both as these two arts offer a lot of tools to the other

Been doing judo for 5 years and i agree that judo is rlly watered down, the rules are getting more and more unreasonable and causing the exciting and traditional aspect of judo to be lacking.

@Mulberry2000

2 жыл бұрын

i agree i left it because of that and i love judo.

I had mixed feelings about Judo. The basic trips do work in fighting, but in the Olympics it kind of loses its function and becomes nullified. That was until I found the code in the hands for it. I think that is missing from many schools now! Also in the video, no one is asserting there force. I mean it has to have some aggression in it!

@davida.rosales6025

Жыл бұрын

I agree. The inner and outer trips work wonders on most fighters. And they're so rare now in modern Judo that you can see the expression of confusion when black belts are tripped, 🤣

Excellent video, but the constant flashy cuts with Powerpoint like animations became distracting and tiring for my eyes after several minutes. The content was excellent though.

@MartialArtsJourney

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the feedback! I'll see about toning down the fast paced editing :)

Awesome video! 🤙🏼 I love Judo! 🥋

Do you live close enough to any place where you can try out shuai jiao?

It's hard to fight with someone wearing a white belt cause whe don't know if the person already knows how to fall. That's is something we really worry about. Some serious injury might occur.

@jestfullgremblim8002

2 жыл бұрын

Exactly, and also: Judo randori is usually slow pased, people just need to look up dojo (not between friends) randori on youtube and see by themselves that almost no one tries hard on randori.

A martial arts that sounds very interesting to me but doesn't exist around my area is bajiquan, I also don't have the means to travel to check it out so I was curious if maybe you could possibly take some classes or talk with somebody about it on your channel

Oh man if not the situation I would of organized you a trip to Moscow for my combat SAMBO coach. He had shown me throws even if opponent is super deffencife

@cesaralvesdemoraes3187

2 жыл бұрын

You should do that whenever possible, sounds like good content

@cesaralvesdemoraes3187

2 жыл бұрын

Also what's the gym name in case Im ever in town

Thank you, Rokas, for posting this. What most people - even experienced aikidoka - have failed to realise, is this: If you study aikido with a view to using it in completion or a real street fight, it will not work on its own. Aikido is a martial art that you do only after you have studied and become proficient in another martial arts like jujutsu and judo. This is why even well-known and respected aikidokas realise the limits of Aikido. If they had gotten their black belts in judo or jujutsu instead of aikido and then studied aikido, their aikido would work. You bring aikido into judo, not the other way round. You have no doubt already found that that cross training has indeed helped you to realise how you make your Aikido work. I would encourage you to continue your journey in aikido AND judo.

i think you have nailed it this time round! great video indeed! i have had similar experience coming from bjj to judo. and shintaro is so spot on about higher belts thinking they are winning and are safe on points why would they bother risking- when I was beginner judoka i have asked brown belt: how do I deal with someone stiff arming me- he says you don't mate: he is going to get shido for it, it's his problem, you want to play judo and he doesn't.

@Mulberry2000

2 жыл бұрын

I agree but most people are not going to do competitons. If one cannot defend against a defensive stiff armed person, the randoori is a waste of time.

@frederickmorton275

2 жыл бұрын

@@Mulberry2000 I would still say that most experienced judokas do know how to deal with stiff arming opponents- by the time you get to say brown belt level your average judoka would have done plenty of hrs of randori and had to deal with all different sorts of sparring partners including those very deffensive or those very spazzy. i don't think anyone is overly strict in regards to rules during randori session. i think it's usually a week or two before competitions that everyone gets a bit more briefed with rules and spars In accordance to those. having said that stiff arming is just not a good strategy and I personally like that judo competition ruleset encourages being active and agressive rather than deffensive.

Correction: not its "sister" martial art, its "mother" martial art. (jujutsu being the grandmother)

Great perception at the end. About making modifications/adjustments at the dojo level. I got a very similar comment from my mentor in Aikido, I was complaining too much about the straying from a core martial arts foundation in our practice and too much emphasis on soft/spiritual approach at the sacrifice of practicality in the beginning. Basically told me that nothing is stopping me from making mods at my own dojo/curriculum, and I was like "duhhh" why didn't I just see it as my own journey carving it out the way I see fit based on my own abilities. So now my curriculum embeds cross training and the students love it! They start off with more general martial arts training with a little Aikido, then at blue belt they flip to a little general martial arts practice and more Aikido specific focus. It's really helped sharpen their skills out and see Aikido a bit clearer (the strengths and weaknesses). Maybe one day I'll put on YT. ;) Thanks for sharing your journey!

Why is a Judoka who refuses to cross train a problem. I've met wrestlers who never cross trained. Because wrestling is the sport that they love. So if they love the sport of Judo and aren't really trying to be a well rounded Martial Artist, there is no issue with that if you aren't diluting yourself. I've met people who were miserable while doing BJJ but kept doing it because they wanted to be well rounded. No aspirations of fighting professionally or something. But in my opinion this is wrong. A big discussion in the martial arts world we have to have is how much should we be training because it's practical and how much should we do it because we enjoy it. Since reverse I know BJJ guys who never train striking because they don't want to get hit in the face.

@PHIplaytesting

2 жыл бұрын

It's not just whether or not you're having a good time. There's serious health concerns involved with becoming a monstrous hand to hand combatant. It can take years off your life.

@oneguy7202

2 жыл бұрын

@@PHIplaytesting if you want to be deadly in h2h learn to use a carry a knife if you deploy it its over

the most reliable martial arts channel on youtube

No offense to Chadi, but that didn’t like like an Olympic prep team.

I mean, part of randori (sparring) is meeting the level of the person you are sparring with when they are a lower level, and with Judo, specifically making sure that the other person is able to land safely. The fact is, with you having a white belt, they were probably going at like 3% intensity and only using the most basic of sweeps/ throws. If they wanted to ragdoll you, I'm fairly certain (at least the higher belts) could... 6:15 Exactly what I was saying... lol

Uss!! Can't wait for you to visit Shintaro Higashi in New York. 🙏🙏

personally, whenever i did randori with a white belt, i had only two goals in mind: letting the guy experience that he can do things successfully, and giving him a taste of how much more he could learn to do. whenever he goes for one of the few techniques he learned, i'll still resist and avoid it, but i'll delay my reaction just enough so that he gets to off balance me and keep the initiative on his attack. no words or advice needed, simply reward him being proactive and give him the space to try his hands at building an attack. when i find a cool opportunity to make my own attack, i try to vary them as much as possible. showing to the guy "hey! look at all the cool things we can do." that way, i'm sure at least one of those things will make him interested. another one is showing variations and setups to the techniques he knows, and the attacks he tried. he learned ippon seoi nage and tried it? i will do several setups of ippon seoi nage on him across the sparring, moving back to attract him into my throw, pushing him down to pick him into the throw as he straightens back up, feinting a sweep to setup. then when i did a whole lot seoi nage, and he's starting to get cautious, i'll do it with no setup and give him that opportunity to counter me. now he learns that reading the other guy's move can be a great opportunity. yeah, i throw the guy a bunch of times as a result, that's why you gotta go slow and cushion the throws with white belts who are not great with falls yet. it's just about a simple dynamic: do the thing to show the guy what or how he could do it. then give space and opportunities for the guy to try the thing. that's how you gotta spar any grappling with newbies. gotta give and take, gotta simplify the rhythm so they can follow and get a glimpse of the actual depth of the sport.

Makes sense. Definitely more to exploring martial arts than most people think.

Rokas I have a video suggestion for you. I’d like to see you make a comparison video between bjj and judo.

I’m gonna be real the black belts not throwing you has nothing to do with you being defensive. They’re just not slamming the terrified stiff first timer because if they did no one would join the dojo…… literally I’m half a year into judo and I have no doubt that I can throw any beginner with no standing grappling experience way more than once in a five minute round. You are drastically underestimating the strength of your opponents buddy.

Nice!

I did a part of the journey from being an experienced Aikidoka to beginner in Judo. That because I moved to the countryside and Judo was the only martial art provided locally. It was a very nice club of people. After some months of training I could compete in a local tournament (section over 50 years, over 90 kg) and had to fight the main instructor of another judo club. Former GDR Olympic. He let me try out some time then he threw me and I completely lost ground. I even felt him controlling my air movement and I had a perfect fall. Ipon! His first concern was immediately to look if I was all right and I had a real big and honest ‘thank you’ for this overwhelming experience. Rokus, if you want to _experience_ Judo you should not go to the finest address of Paris but to some dirty small town hobbyist’s club.

@osmanacmiyun6023

2 жыл бұрын

dude this was the olympic team if i understood right and they were all blackbelts… try to go to ANY bjj gym in the world with only competitive black belts in in and not get submitted once (more like 300 times in a few minutes), or go to a olympic wrestling kader without getting taken down

If I’m just practicing and I find an opponent that’s totally defensive, why should I waste energies or even risk getting hurt just to make a big throw? That’s not how any training it’s supposed to work, especially randori. I appreciate this video a lot, but as a person who’s done many sports in his life and 12 years of judo, I think that you can’t expect to train like that and also get a full experience of the sport(or martial art), since training it’s training and fighting is fighting. In judo, for example, there’s a great difference between randori amd shiai. Again, great video and very informative ❤️

Also keep in mind that most people are not great teachers, and Dunning-Krueger is in effect with higher level practitioners of anything. We do competition judo in our gym but some individuals are selected to work with beginners to get them up to speed specifically because they are good at breaking down techniques, movement, and rules. If you showed up here, we would first teach you to fall, then one or two throws. You would not be thrown in Randori until the instructors felt you were ready (though you can talk to them about this if you feel they are not judging your readiness properly) because ultimately, we want more training partners and less/no injuries. Once we are allowed to throw a beginner in Randori, we usually start with foot sweeps and trips before anything else. Here, Randori is used to practice the techniques you are actively working on improving, so we will sometimes have a "Ashi Waza only" or "Seoinage Only" sessions because that is what the class is working on. If a competition is upcoming, players will be focusing on movement and setup for their couple of techniques that they have developed for competition. We do get some new guys that just really want to be thrown, and if they let us know, we will usually pull out the crash pad and accommodate if we think it can be done safely.

I think you should go see Ray Stevens in London if you ever get the opportunity, Neil Adams when he was a consultant for Olympic judo removed leg grabs and lifts from judo's standing game, his reasons for doing so were safety (people were getting injured getting tackled) as well as to do with ease for scoring. Reason why I said go see Ray is because as well as being an Olympic level judo player he is also Roger Gracie's first UK black belt. He does Judo for BJJ seminars which are basically old school judo.

@MartialArtsJourney

2 жыл бұрын

Awesome! I'd love to visit him. I'll do my best to make it happen next time I am in London

@ChateauLonLon

2 жыл бұрын

Oh that's a brilliant idea! I'll have to look into this guy myself now. I wonder if he's online anywhere.

@lewisb85

2 жыл бұрын

@@ChateauLonLon Ray Stevens Academy is his website he's based in Malden London. There's also some judo for bjj content with him on the bjjstylemagazine youtube page.

@ChateauLonLon

2 жыл бұрын

@@lewisb85 Thanks a lot man!

Dude! When are you going to Shintaro's dojo?! Oh and btw... San Jose State University has some world-class judokas, consider reaching out to them, particularly their Judo Club. Hopefully you'll run into Yoshihiro Uchida, he's like 103 yrs old or so! Absolute legend!

Why would you learn to fight a completely defensive opponent?

The fact that you didn't resist as you mentioned would take away from the experience you were hoping for. And in regards to feeling you know how to defend a technique vs defending it for real are two vastly different things! In theory I know how to defend a double/single leg, hip throw and so on but doing it in real life is a whole other deal... Be careful of such thoughts, you'll only fool yourself - much like all the untrained people believing they easily could beat a trained opponent by just doing "this to counter that" and so on. Love you channel and especially this topic!

You ever check out Kosen Judo and Kudo?

11:20 The SAFER part is the key point here Judo as self defense is great but there is a higher potential for injury during practice. Which isn't tat drastic for adults who know that certain actions are dangerous and won't go all the way with them, but becomes exponentially more dangerous for kids. I'm a referee and I can see how rule sets are tweaked and adjusted year to year to ensure safety For examples: Koreans come up with reverse seoi nage, the comission establishes a very high chance of hitting the mat with the back of your head, reverse seoi gets banned from competitions also age restrictions for stuff like choke holds, joint locks and throws like Tomoe nage or Kesa gatame

Judo became watered down because it became a sports/sparring oriented martial art. You can find more traditional judo dojos but they are rare. Judo being watered down and sports oriented made me start practicing Bujinkan. I still love judo thought since i practiced it for a long long time.

@Mulberry2000

2 жыл бұрын

yes i agree

the biggest thing for me is the lack of leg grabs. One of my favourite combos in bjj is the failed ouchi gari to single leg

@lewisb85

2 жыл бұрын

Some clubs still drill them as part of the art, some however, would rather you not get in the habit of doing it as if you did in comp it's a DQ.

You need to know it’s good etiquette in judo training sessions not throw white belts around. You first learn how to perform a breakfall (and it’s not easy, and it takes months if not a full year of practice) and then you get thrown all over the place in randori. Judo was intended as an educational method, the main goal is avoiding injuries as well as learning the philosophy of “Ju”. Learning how to fall to the floor before learning how to perform attacks and fight is methodologically intentional. Also, randori is not fighting. It’s a partially consensual exercise. If you want to fly in the air opposing full resistance you should try shiai NB: that said, all the regulations and stuff are actually watering judo down lol A lot of good techniques, experimenting with the throws and training methods were lost because they’re “too dangerous”

I misplaced my hip and injured my left shoulder. They just treated you kindly, you were totally new and recording with a phone. All that injuries were not because I didn't knew how to fall, I tried to play it hard so when I was falling I kept grabbing my opponent gi. So they really just let you be safe. When someone is playing it difficult by bending knees then you trick him. First you pull, he bends, you sweep to one side or the back... if you push and he plays it hard, you sweep him to the front. I did that, my opponent landed by his chin. It was a little hilarious since he was joking like it was very easy to resist being thrown hahaha.... you play mind games.. . as all pro`s do.

The original interview of this vid was a really good video tbh

If you study aikido I recommend to go into Daito-Ryu. Daito gave birth to Aikido. It’s brutal and painful, but will give you insight on the origins of Aikido. You would love it

Hi Rokas, I've been watching your videos for years and have really enjoyed them - thank you. I like the questions you ask very much. And I like it that you never really come to any firm conclusions, even though that's quite frustrating! Both for the viewer and I think for you too? With this video I feel it more than usual. Almost like you're asking the wrong question on purpose. It seems your overriding perennial search is for universal truth. And you do find truth in each martial art you investigate, but it never satisfies you, because it is truth limited within a certain context. Is there a martial art that's free of context, that transcends into universal truth? If there was it would be devoid of fixed techniques. All techniques can be countered or don't work in all contexts. So with no techniques what would there be to learn? I like to think someone like Ueshiba transcended his martial art - maybe only individual people can experience universal truth. And a martial art is just a piece of information waiting to be brought to life by a creative person.

I've had the experience of having randori with white belts with previous experience and is super weird and awkward. One really doesn't know how to treat them until like 3 or 4 classes in. Then it becomes normal, you can assign them an imaginary belt in your head.

I think it’s fair enough that the seniors didn’t throw you into the shadow realm on your first lesson, but the point about rules getting in the way is a good one. Judo rules aren’t just about safety anymore, they’re also about stopping you from using wrestling and forcing you to fight the way they think looks good for spectators.

I really want to try judo :)

@Leverquin

2 жыл бұрын

go for it!

As a former national team judoka, that doesnt look like france olympic team at all, maybe a judo club that has olympic competitors... Fisically you would be completelly ddstroyed by any international competitor

what are the differences between Judo and Aikido??

Very simple: You as a White Belt were treated as carfully as possible. I can see that none of your opponents fighted seriously to not harm you.

I guess your next step on this journey will be traditional Jujutsu? At my Dojo there is a lot of people who train regularly Judo and Jujutsu once a week to see the self defense approach, to complement the sportive one.

If you only take one or two classes. I am not sure how can you make those arguments based on a short period of time to practice Judo. At least you will need go practice 3 months to understand Judo. And different belts have different experience.

I’m brown in judo blue in bjj, and many other judo clubs I’ve seen are lacking but I was lucky enough to get a former Olympian who competed in Sambo in Russia. We do no gi and “banned techniques” learning judo as a whole rather than continually restricting year by year. It’s funny because every year judo restricts and every year bjj basically absorbs and expands, a lot of what would be lost in judo has been picked up in bjj. In bjj competition judo’s done me well, 3 comp’s I’ve only had one match that I did not get a trip or throw in gi AND no gi. Just because there’s a gi doesn’t mean you have to rely exclusively on gi grips, so using arm drags and underhook a in grip fighting has been helpful to get to a side body lock where tani otoshi is my primary attack and lands me in side control. Modification of WHICH techniques to use in bjj competition are VERY important because many of judo’s throws have A LOT of back exposure and if failed leave you with catastrophic consequences (them on your back!), so leg techniques and throws with an underhook are better which limits you but also puts you at little to no risk of a counter attack. In judo I’m a counter thrower, I bait people with a line lapel grap and act like I’m naïve but am waiting for the turn to counter with tani otoshi. By counter throwing I’ve figured out a lot of what doesn’t work as well.

It absolutely is not the same thing that happens to new people in BJJ. I consider it important to gently tap out beginners several times in a roll. They need to know shit works, or what are they paying for?

Bro they're being nice to you. It's why you didn't experience getting thrown around like a ragdoll. Maybe you should have told them that that is what you wanted to experience. Then maybe they would have thrown you around until you are satisfied. There is a Judo channel here based out of New York I think, Sensei Higashi. He might be a good collab for you. He's very knowledgeable.

Shintaro was spot on with his answers!

I hope that Rokas will try capoeira. There are many misconception of what capoeira and that a roda isn't meant for sparring, but more for testing out yourself and your fellow player. While there are 3 main styles Angola, Regional and Contemporânea......there are many different schools, with gravitate to certain aspect of capoeira. Most schools outside South America focus more on the culture of Brazil, and instuctors also gravitate to certain aspect of capoeira depending on the audience (if they train in a dance school, of course their capoeira is more focused on samba and music, if they train kids the focus is more on general on the brazilian culture). And some schools are more martial focused, that is mixed with luta livre....because that region is known for this tradition. I wish that Rokas would analyze in great detail. Some criticism of capoeira in the western world appear half martial arts ("great kicks, but the rest is dancing"), but in my opinion these kicks are more useful, because of the general low stance than the kicks in Teakwondo. But this again is just a discussion high kicks, where teakwondo shine vs lower kicks, where capoeira is great. Other criticismt that capoeira improve your overall fitness and acrobatics quickly, while at the same time awkward of using it. With a bit luck Rokas will reached the 200k subscribers this quarter year, i cross my finger for it.

Which is why I always say that there are two versions of martial arts. Sports and practical ( think of just what works). So I don't think it is watered down but two styles are clearly being defined which is probably how most martial arts are going to end up. On a side note what may have happened is that as a white belt they didn't want to injury you as most white belts wouldn't know how to take a fall and landing wrong could cause serious injuries. Not that they were trying to go easy on you.

Yeah you need to train Judo in NYC to fully answer the question you propose here. However I think with every martial art ever self defense effectiveness will vary from school to school.

No offense to Chadi, but you should try sparring Shintaro Higashi. You'd go flying for sure!

dude as a yellow belt, even i go light on whitebelts

@MatthewNguyen-zx3de

Ай бұрын

I decided to go hard on a white belt once at their request and got in considerable shit lmao. That white belt was good at his breakfalls at least- but man if it was someone else then they'd never want to come back lol.

Like many martial arts schools, there will be the watered down versions of any martial art but there are also the schools who still practice the more serious/applicable techniques for true self-defense. This happens with karate, taekwondo, BJJ and judo because many are trying to be more sporty for the average person to join in, but then it lowers the standards of the arts and give flawed techniques or teaching half of what should be taught

I think you should add an erratum to this video because the “olympic team” reference is false.

Nice video, but it is obvious you arrived at a conclusion too early. The Judo guys were merciful with you because you were a white belt. It is just a courtesy. I'm a 220 lbs BJJ purple belt and former Aikido practitioner, currently doing cross-training in a Judo academy. Judo Black Belts have been slamming me onto the floor like a rag doll every time they want it. Specifically, when I try to be aggressive. Also, regardless if they are working with Judo for competition or not, if they slam you onto the floor with an Ippon Seoi Nage in the street fight, you will finish in the hospital if you are lucky. Rolling is a little bit different, certainly, a BJJ practitioner can defend better, however, Judo guys are very effective and aggressive and can submit you very quickly during Newaza. BJJ guys are lazier during rolling. So, I think BJJ and Judo complement each other very well.

I was training with my friend who was doing free wrestling semi professional in Lithuania. And I spoke with his coach who was former wrestler and also had a lot of experience in sambo, he also said that Judo now is more of a dance than a sport. This conversation happened 8 years ago so I don't know now but I think there is some truth to these words if you look at some judo competition today.

@minorityofone1510

2 жыл бұрын

Agreed in substance; Kano never intended Judo to become a rule bound sport and made sure Judo retained a combat element despite its obvious watering down and elimination of some deadly Jiu Jitsu techniques he had studied. Nevertheless as an individual if you are in a self defence situation Judo is formidable against an unsuspecting assailant! (I practice both trad Jiu Jitsu and Judo)

@jestfullgremblim8002

2 жыл бұрын

@@minorityofone1510 yeah, Judo still works, but Traditional/Old Judo is way better. If you look at old randori, you'll see that Judoka tried to do throws like Harai Goshi even on opponents that were super defensive and weren't trying to throw them.

@oneguy7202

2 жыл бұрын

Still judo is more teachnical and well rounded than wrestling

@oneguy7202

2 жыл бұрын

@@jestfullgremblim8002 they still do that

@2wolf5

2 жыл бұрын

@@oneguy7202 well depends on what kind of wrestling you are talking about. In free wrestling you can actually use judo technics if you want to yet in judo you cant really use wrestling technics much if at all. So I don't think you are correct in your statement. But only my opinion, I am not an expert I might be wrong.

You want to learn to be thrown( or throw) like a doll with judo. There's three words you need to learn through out years: kusushi, tsukuri, kake.

One of the best things I found as a Judoka was fighting people from other styles. It meant I had to adapt my Judo throws to different situations and stances. Definitely one of the best experiences I had. As such, I’ve had no problem using my Judo throws to BJJ comps, gi and no gi.

@gianttigerfilms

2 жыл бұрын

Ya going to bjj knowing judo is so fun, I love practicing no gi takedowns Elbows instead of sleeves, head instead of lapel

@NickKano11

2 жыл бұрын

@@gianttigerfilms and you learn so much as well. BJJ fighters have a different stance, so you have to modify your techniques. I’ve found Ippon Seoi, Harai Goshi, and Kata Guruma have served me well.

I took Judo for 6 months in collage. We did not talk about rules at all (except ring out, no striking, safety stuff). I guess it is about playing the judo game vs. general grapple training.

Shintaro pointed out all of my initial thoughts, but there's also something i want to add. The "ragdoll experience" is subjective anyways, i think many of the techniques that would give you that feeling doesn't go well against the posture you have in the video. Watching, i have some ideas of what i would try, but none of them would give you the "ragdoll experience", because, what i think you are refering to with it, are the techniques were your oponent lift you up in the air before you hit the ground, and actually not all the techniques do that, because the objective of the game is not to lift the oponent, is to take him to the ground. I wouldn't try to lift you because you are bigger than me and that would be inefficient, also your keep your hips so low. Likewise I don't think the ragdoll experience is a good metric to know if judo have become watered down, i mean, in a "real life situation", you don't care of wether or not you made a nice throw or scored an ippon, all that matter is taking the other guy to the ground. So throws that are like very dissappointing to you would still be effective in a "real" fight. Also, got the impression you confuse randori with shiai. Randori is more like a free practice, you are not suppose to be so defensive in a randori, randori is more about trying to do your thing while the other guy try to do his thing.

I know this video is ancient, but here's another thing. It's a pretty common saying that a white belt is the most dangerous person on the mat. You just never know what they might do that will get you or them hurt. This is doubled if the person already has some experience in another art. So the practice is to go slow and light to keep everyone safe. No one wants to get hurt or to hurt someone else. Mutual benefit and welfare is one of the principles of Judo after all.