it takes way longer than a month to get good at typing on a split staggered keyboard, because you're essentially learning how to type correctly all over again. It took me about 6 months to get back to typing around 65 wpm from a standard qwerty layout, but I can tell that split keyboards are superior to everything else.

@danielstellmon5330

29 күн бұрын

Guess I'm weird, I didn't have issues. I go back and forth between regular and ortholiner key boards on a regular basis.

The reason why you struggled with the keyboard a lot is probably because it is ortholinear. We are so used to the slight misalignment between the rows that an ortholinear layout really throws us off. (At least, this is what I have heard from the mechanical keyboard youtubers and other youtubers who have switched to ortholinear layouts.) I have also heard that ortholinear layouts are better for the fingers since they reduce the finger travel from the resting positions so I would encourage you to continue with that. (Edit: changed orthogonal to ortholinear)

@archiemepsky4145

Ай бұрын

Ortholinear. And yeah, they are waaay more comfortable. Took me like about 2 weeks to fully switch and its 100% worth it.

@JoelJosephReji

Ай бұрын

​@@archiemepsky4145Oh yes, ortholinear, thanks for the clarification! Didn't have much sleep for the focus required lol.

@mailiefs

Ай бұрын

@@JoelJosephReji I love my moonlander, took a couple of weeks to return to my typical typing speed for regular typing, and a bit longer to work out what mappings really shine with layers hotkeys etc. Also the layout is columnar which is also often grouped in with ortholinear :) Cancel Reply

I love the 8-Ball track ball! I am a HUGE fan of the track ball mice! I use the trackball mice with the ball on the side so I use my thumb to roll the track ball.

The MX Vertical is the slightly larger vertical mouse you're looking for. As for trackballs, they're fantastic for things like illustrator and NLEs/DAWs where you want to make minute movements since the ball is stationary. On a mouse, you can run out of arm or desk space while attempting to click and drag, which just isn't an issue with a trackball. I admire your courage to try such a compact split keyboard for your first foray into splits, but you're probably right that it's changing a bit too much at one time. It's frustrating enough having to learn how to type again but the compact keyboards rely heavily on layers so you have that added friction. I've been using some form of Kinesis Advantage (currently the 360 pro) for years and these more compact keyboards (of which I also own a few) are a challenge.

@BryceDriesenga

Ай бұрын

Mechanical keyboard with built-in trackball could be quite interesting

@archiemepsky4145

Ай бұрын

​@BryceDriesenga there are some. Look up dactyl manuform or charybdis.

I will forever champion any split keyboards by Ergodox. Quality builds and user-friendly interfaces to customize the layouts which lets you do fun stuff like auto-shifting numbers/punctuation or swapping layers for a single keypress (which you can do with other mechanical boards, this just makes it easier to implement). I have an Ergodox EZ which is closer to a full split keyboard, complete with wider buttons along the outside edges; my actual layout is mostly the same as a regular keyboard but I've moved infrequently used keys like capslock to the small thumb keys. I'm thinking about getting a Voyager for when I travel but I don't travel often enough to justify the expense yet. And you're absolutely right about the wrist-bending of a regular keyboard. When my office went fully remote in March 2020 I quickly got wrist and shoulder pain from working at the same desk all day with a cheap logitech wireless keyboard and moving to a split layout immediately resolved those issues.

@WorkFromHype

29 күн бұрын

Thanks for the recs and info!

@danielstellmon5330

29 күн бұрын

I agree. I prefer the moon lander to the EZ, for me it's all about the larger thumb keys. As for the track ball, I prefer the thumb ball system to the finger tip system.

@justinkeene6678

4 күн бұрын

Agreed. The Ergodoz EZ and the Logi MX Ergo is the way to go for a first step into the approach. The thumb trackball is much better than any other trackball I have tried.

I switched to a split keyboard and trackball about a year ago, both mounted to my chair's arms. It's supremely comfortable, and now my typing is probably ~40-50% faster than it was using a standard keyboard. For the first time in my life I'm also a full touch-typer. But I have a full split keyboard, I'm not sure how well I'd do with a compact one.

Switching to a columnar keyboard can throw you off, but I've been extremely happy since making the jump with my Dygma Defy keyboard

You should also check out the Dygma Raise and Dygma Defy 😊

I've got a Split keyboard (Lily58) and trackball mouse (Elecom Huge) and I love them. They do take a while to get used to, but I've printed some 15 degree rises and moved the 'p' key down a row and it's so much more comfortable. Now I just need to learn where everything is on the second layer! lol. I'd love to hear how you get on with other split keyboards if you try a few others, I would advise getting a wrist rest (or a keyboard with a built in wrist rest) or getting used to hovering your wrists a bit with them. Once you get a split keyboard layout your brain works with and you've worked out any bad habits you have from a regular keyboard you can really go fast with a split keyboard, but until you get everything down they really highlight any bad habits you have and it really kills the flow.

Highly, highly, highly recommend the ZSA Moonlander for an ergonomic split keyboard. The entire board is a programmable macro pad and entirely adjustable!

@WorkFromHype

29 күн бұрын

Thanks for the recommendation! I’ll have to check it out.

@danielstellmon5330

29 күн бұрын

I love mine. The biggest issue is remembering that on my moonlander the delete key is capslock on a standard keyboard.

Logitech Trackman Trackballs that you use your thumb to move the ball are better.

I'm a developer who had to make the swap to an ergo keyboard about 2 years ago to try fend off the daily pain I started having. I feel your slowness pain on the 15wpm. I opted for the kenisis adv360 pro and it was about the same start for me. The good news is it solved my pain problems. Took around 2 months of just sticking with it to get "smooth" and eventually full speed again. The strange thing is one you get used to the ergo layout you can still use a traditional keyboard just as easy.

I bought a Kinesis Advantage2 ergonomic keyboard a few years ago and it’s been great. Yes, there’s a bit of a learning curve and it will take a few weeks or months to adjust, but I’ve never looked back. Totally worth the money, and my typing speed is back to where it was with a standard keyboard. And the best part? Your mind automatically remembers where the keys are in a standard keyboard AND where they are on the Advantage2 so you can go back and forth.

@WorkFromHype

28 күн бұрын

Thanks for the info! Kinesis seems to be a top maker in the ergo space. I’ll have to check it out.

I have used a split keyboard setup with a trackball in the middle for 30 years. I keep a mouse plugged in as well since trackball is very good for ergonomics and office tasks while the mouse is better for gaming... As for compact keyboards, it is possible to have a numpad and/or macropad to the left side, it is fairly easy to become accustomed to a numpad in your left hand and trackball or mouse in your right for number heavy tasks...

I've used a Microsoft ergonomic keyboard in the past and it was a joy to use. Still have it for my home setup. When I started doing more graphic work, I noticed that half way through the day, my wrist and forearm would be in severe pain. Started looking into vertical mice as a solution and haven't looked back since. It's been 3 years and no issues at all. Started with the Kensington vertical mouse to try it out and see if it would work for me. Once I decided that a vertical mouse was the way to go, I picked up a Logitech Lift. Great mouse! Like others have mentioned, if you're looking for a larger option, the MX Vertical is the Lift's big brother.

Love it! I never realized thats what ergonomics was, I thought is was just not getting aches from typing/etc. :)

glad youre doing these tests for us!

Theres a MX Vertical mouse for bigger hands, the Lift is great for my hand size. Lift is for S/M hand sizes, while the Vertical is mainly for L sizes

hey! love the video. I think that the MX Vertical is fairly bigger than the lift. I got my self one a year ago and it was the best decision that I have made when picking a mouse. I still use a regular mouse for fps games tho.

Love these videos man! I’ve integrated a couple things you’ve recommended this past year. The Spotify player is my favorite so far. I use that thing all day!!

Thanks for the vid, you should definitely stick with the split columnar/ortholinear keyboard, and like the conclusion you already came to you might need to try one that isn't quite so compact. I love my moonlander for reference :) Took me a few weeks of deliberate practice to return to my expected typing speeds

I've tested a lot of mice for macOS and the best I've used is the ROG Harpe Ace. The lightness has alleviated the wrist strain I was feeling from the MX Master. If side scrolling is necessary, paired with the Magic Trackpad, I feel SO much relief. Clicking on it is really satisfying.

You need to try the Logitech Ergo. Best mouse I've ever had, by far so much comfortable than a vertical mouse. Also, you chose the hardest track ball mouse design to get used to. The Ergo is designed a bit like a vertical mouse, so it feels more natural than just having a giant ball in the middle of your desk. You should try Alice/Southpaw keyboard with the numberpad on the left, if you're right-handed. I have the Keychron Q14 Pro, and typing has never felt so natural. I can now use my ten key without lifting my hand off my mouse, and it makes typing easier. If you do get it, the palm rest is a must. That's it's biggest con: typing without the palm rest isn't the best because the keyboard is a bit high of the desk, but the palm rest elevates the experience to a whole new level.

I personally got the logitech mx ergo which is a trackball which using the thumb for moving the trackball and the buttons are pretty much the same. I would have like a bit more tilt to the trackball but it is more ergonomic and my hand just adapted right away to it (took me 2 days, maybe). It has a much less learning curve, similar to logitech lift (much less vertical though). You can probably look into that.

@Shigarui

Ай бұрын

I also use the Ergo, just to take advantage of less travel distance needed. I love everything about it, except, I find that I have to take it apart and clean the ball and the contacts often enough to be a bother. My hands are clean, the desk is clean, but it collects some form of buildup on those plastic nubs that it sits on. Do you have this same problem?

@JoelJosephReji

Ай бұрын

​@@Shigaruiyes, I do notice this but I'm not too worried about it (its most likely dead skin cells, which is very normal). Once in a while when I'm fidgeting on the trackball itself, I just end up cleaning the contact points.

For a long time my personal favorite keyboard for gaming was a Drop OLKB Preonic that I built during Covid. Unfortunately, I wound up having to sell it, and a bunch of other stuff to cover expenses from lost wages. That being said, things are picking up and I think the TWS Split would be the perfect evolution for everything I loved about that keyboard and fix the things that I didn't like about it. The transition period to a columnar ortholinear keyboard is rough, and it took me more than a month, but once I hit the end of that second month I realized that I couldn't go back to staggered row keyboards ever again. My daily driver now is a Drop OLKB Planck and I only use my Keychron V2 (non max/pro) for gaming.

great vid! I've switched to trackballs like 12 years ago and I haven't looked back, tbh not a fan of the kensignton trackballs or the middle position, but if you ever give trackballs another chance, look into the Elecom line. I found the Elecom Huge while learning blender and to me it's the best of both worlds (with extra buttons for customizatiion!). But then again I'm looking into getting it a wedge to have it also angled up in the setup to tune in the comfort a little further. keep up the great vids!

Keyboardio Model 01 on this end. My wrists are much happier. I right now feel like I'm winning against carple tunnel. Took about a month to re-learn typing. The big thing is setting up the layers and custom combos. You can change all sorts of macros on these custom keyboards

I’ve used both kinds of mice and the ergonomic keyboard. They all have their benefits

If you want a larger ortholinear keyboard with wristpads rgb, wireless, custom switches etc , check out the Dygma Defy. They have a split qwerty version called the Dygma Raise (v2 coming soon). I have a Raise 1 with lubricated linear switches and custom keycaps and love it. Took me a month to get used to it but now there's now way I could go back. The good thing with the Raise as well is that the two halves can be joined together to form a normal qwerty keyboard if needed

@BenMilford

Ай бұрын

Moonlander is another great option. I’ve been using it about two years.

I love that mouse!

I remember seeing your comment on a split keyboard video months ago and have been looking forward to this video since

The MX Vertical mouse solved my carpel tunnel problem in my wrist. I put them all all my machines, only mouse for me.

The Logitech lift is excellent.

I do love your videos.

I think best of both worlds are split keyboards with traditional layout, like Mistel Barocco - all the benefits without relearning anything.

I'd love it if you could try the DELTAHUB Carpio! For mouse and keyboard. I also use an MX Master daily, and my mousepad does have a little foam thingy to raise my wrist, that's what I find most confortable. I don't type A LOT, but when I do, or when I game, I do feel like I need a wrist rest for the keyboard too. The Carpio, being only under your hand, and slides with your movement, is kind of attractive as it really doesnt take a lot of space and looks pretty ergonomic. But boy is it expensive for what it looks like it is. I wonder what makes it worth it?

Criminally low views for such a quality vid!!!

I’d recommend the r go tools split keyboard. It’s split but maintains the classic qwert layout. Been using it at work for more than a year and my back croon has practically disappeared. Its not mechanical though.

@WorkFromHype

17 күн бұрын

Thanks for the suggestion. I’ve not seen this model before!

iPad setup looks neat, but the one downside it the not-so-ergonomic factor of having your head tilted down, but it depends on how long you're using it like that I suppose or if you're going back and forth between iPad and desktop.

well an easier trackball mouse to use is the Logitech Mx Ergo wireless trackball. coz you use like a regular mouse just using you thumb to move the cursor.

The older Logitech lift is bigger, if you prefer that. It also has USB charging. Another note, keep your wrist off the table when you use the Logitech Lift. This is how the mouse is meant to be used. Forcing you to not have your wrist rubbing on the desk.

I tihink it would have been better if you recorded how many hours of active typing with the split keyboard. It took me around 20 hours on moneytype to get used to my split keyboard and get back to 70 wpm.

Also can't remember, but have you mentioned your deskmat? Is that custom?

i agree, and dont even worry about it. youtube keyboard typists are nuts. the wpm drop on any new keyboard is the norm. take comfort over speed. however.... what them mini monitors do?? wfh always has the hotness on non-standard monitors. love to see them!

what mousepad u got?

Dudę... please try Logitech MX Ergo. older mouse, but very good. Has adjustable tilt!

You should try a thumb track ball. Its a totally different experience

@senritsujumpsuit6021

Ай бұрын

the ambidextrous trackballs are super nice the Gameball on Fribs channel is insane with how precise you can act in Apex Legends

@Saphrym

Ай бұрын

I’ve been using a thumb trackball for 30+ years. I agree. It’s a very different experience. And I can play FPS games just fine.

@senritsujumpsuit6021

Ай бұрын

@@Saphrym but does it have proper gaming nice HZ though how's managing with a less responsive Trackball device

@danielstellmon5330

29 күн бұрын

I prefer thumb to fingertip myself.

@Saphrym

28 күн бұрын

@@senritsujumpsuit6021Trackballs are not less responsive when made correctly. The laser is just looking at a ball instead of a mousepad. Same technology. And if you’ve been using them as long as I have, they are amazing with FPS games. I can turn 180 degrees with a tiny flick of my thumb.

The thumb-based trackballs are better. Logitech have a few options

@senritsujumpsuit6021

28 күн бұрын

false they have perks an lack of perks

@EricMuranoAU

28 күн бұрын

@@senritsujumpsuit6021you’re a lack of perks

@senritsujumpsuit6021

28 күн бұрын

@@EricMuranoAU the fact your pissed over this means your perkless

@EricMuranoAU

28 күн бұрын

@@senritsujumpsuit6021Your definitive negativity must be a delight to be around in person.

That is the clackiest sounding keyboard I've ever heard. I feel like you need to talk to Hippyotech buddy!

Anyone else use two keyboards at their desk? I have a super ergonomic one for work, and then whenever I game I switch to a gaming keyboard

One word. Glove80.

@WorkFromHype

28 күн бұрын

I do not yet possess the ability to operate a keyboard like the Glove, but maybe some day…

lol that pluggable thing is ugly as sin..did they salvage modems from the year 2000 to cut cost?

WHAT A SAD SAD MAN 😂

Hate to say it but your typing slowly because you are not typing properly most of us don't but just to tell you why.

@senritsujumpsuit6021

Ай бұрын

you could say the far more informative fact that stranded boards are just glorified Typewriters hence why they can feel like shit

Plugable gear looks great but the logo is terrible and huge... :D

Biggest mistake you've made is that you continued to utilize QWERTY layout instead of switching to something like Colemak-DH. Speaking from experience as someone who currently uses 36 key split keyboard with Colemak, while it is a bit more investment upfront, it pays off massively very quickly. You are not messing up your muscle memory from regular keyboard and QWERTY and get to form a different set of muscle memory for split kb, this way I;ms till comfortable on both (but much more faster & accurate on split kb with colemak as this layout just makes more sense)