I love that even the more neutral opinions are really just "I'd love to see more experimental stuff instead of x-thing"

@fed3758

Ай бұрын

I don't really get that I find video game music so unique I really don't think most musicians would think to have a lead violin with a guitar following

@Soulferno

Ай бұрын

​@@fed3758Well why would they? Most musicians who compose or play at big events for orchestra or opera are really only there for because of that type of music. I imagine that for people who have studied music for so long that all that they really hear and see are the actual notes, composition and general movements of a piece rather than what the average person hears. You could apply this logic to plenty of people. Actors probably view other performances in movies and shows and maybe subconsciously try to analyze what's going on in scenes. Animators or game devs likely do the same as well. Personally, I give them some slack with this series but I also don't let them off the hook entirely when I've been gaming all my life and know what these pieces do better than most other forms of music, including big orchestras and operas. Perhaps that's simply elitism and favoritism talking but I find it hard to believe you can listen to a lot of videogame music from the last 30 years and come to the conclusion that it's not as imaginative, inspired or non-repetitive as classical music or anything else for that matter. That's just my biased take on it

@fed3758

Ай бұрын

@Soulferno I'm sorry but I'm not reading all that man

@broad_cat

Ай бұрын

@@fed3758 Its like 8 sentences lmao

@fed3758

Ай бұрын

@broad_cat I know but my short term memory is shit By the time I'm at the end I'll forget the first half! So let's just call this a draw Or something That and I really don't wanna have a discussion I just wanted to state my opinion and disappear

1) My dad, who is a lifelong avid classical music listener, firmly dislikes the videogame music I listen to. Part of it is that he does not care for videogames to begin with; the other part is he is approaching the critically the same way he would approach classical performances. Multiple times he has mentioned that the music has "too much constant tension" and is "too repetetive" - which is perfectly correct, b/c that's exactly what videogame music has to be: to maintain tension for the player while not distracting them from the mechanics. He also notices when tracks quote or reference established classical pieces, which he personally does not find interesting as it's "unoriginal". Ultimately, videogame is NOT classical music, and both genres fill entirely different roles, so showing videogame music to a classical musician is ultimately feeding someone something that is not part of their diet. Of course, there's nothing wrong with that at all. Music is meant to be different. 2) I would also argue that context is important for classical music, too. In my experiences introducing people to classical music, they are often entirely unimpressed by what they hear - until I explain to them that it takes years of practice in order to be able to perform that piece, or that the composer went through an intense personal experience while composing the piece, or that the piece is meant to paint a picture or tell a story. Opera, like Shakespeare, is very difficult for the average person to comprehend without seeing the context with which it is being performed; listening to a recording of "Nessun Dorma" on its own is nice, but it begins to mean so much more when the listener knows the story that is being told, can see the expression of the singer acting the part, and can understand Italian.

0:19 ah yes, I see that Marco has caught the Ace Combat Fever, just like me immediately thinking of Ace Combat when I see the word "Ace" XD

@IvoryMadness.

Ай бұрын

I bet "Turnabout Jet" will be a case in the next AA game! 😂😂

@Hylian_Waffle

Ай бұрын

I really hope he does a video on Ace Attorney Specifically the Music from The Great Ace Attorney and Professor Layton vs Phoenix Wright

@zwei7881

Ай бұрын

I laughed at this too.

*not necessarily alluding to the video* but the viewpoint that bothers me a lot is that if it's not real instruments recorded in a real studio then it can't be good music, which I've seen being mentioned a few times in the past. I don't know much about music but I'm a visual artist and I've had to deal with this a lot, people who dismissed my art because I drew it using a drawing tablet on a computer, and whenever they saw my drawings with a pencil on paper they'd get surprised and even had one of them say to me "wow, didn't know you CAN actually draw". There are a lot of things to art other than medium, tons of theory and knowledge of things like anatomy, perspective, color theory, gesture... that I believe also apply to music whether you're actually playing that guitar yourself or not. I dunno, it sorta comes off as crappy elitism to me when some oil painter sneers at my work because I did it in Clip Studio instead of a physical canvas.

@jaster8857

Ай бұрын

I completely see where you’re coming from, and that same elitism definitely exists when some people say that about music, but I also think it can be a bit different and might not always be coming from that place. Synthetic instruments lack the vibrant sound and real variation that an actual instrument has, and to someone used to playing real instruments, it really sticks out in a bad way. I’m not a visual artist, but I imagine to someone who has made digital art and knows all the options of saturation and value for any color, it would be like seeing something made using only the limited sample colors. To someone trained, it could end up looking a bit boring even if it’s a great art piece otherwise. There’s also a different feel when musicians are playing off of each other rather than just something created using synthetic instruments, and that feeling can come through the music (at least that’s the goal) If someone is disregarding the work and real skill it takes to create music (digitally or otherwise), then that’s terrible and elitist. Sometimes it’s the only option available, and sometimes it’s better for something that needs a certain sound. At the same time, if the goal is to imitate a physical sound (like the synthetic strings) and feeling, then I think it’s fine to lament that it just doesn’t get there

@Hurricane047

Ай бұрын

@@jaster8857 Very good points, I understand when that's the case. I mostly meant when digital art is seen as a "lesser" art form compared to the classic mediums the "old masters" used. I wasn't sure if the disdain for synthetic sound was coming from a similar place or not. Thanks for clarifying it for me

@Baromunk

Ай бұрын

I was thinking the same. It's really missing the forest for the trees, isn't it? Sure it could've been better from a performance standpoint with live instruments, but that's not what matters the most.

@thomasmann4536

Ай бұрын

@@Hurricane047 when faced with this kind of elitism, you could remind the oil painter that the old masters had to mix their colors themselves from basic ingredients whereas he buys them on ebay ... so where's the skill in THAT? jokes aside, sure there's a lot of stuff that goes into digital art, but at the same time it would be disingenuous to say that it's the same skill level as traditional art. Even simple tools like the color picker or undo button are absolute game changers. (and I say that as a 3d digital artist myself^^)

I think the issue with the people that were really critical is that i'm guessing they don't play games so they aren't experiencing the music in the context of what's happening. For example just listening to the theme for the Owl Father fight in Sekiro is going to be repetitive and boring but when you're playing, being under constant pressure, with the music amplifying what you're feeling, It's a different story entirely. Another example is System Shock 2 it's a first person horror immersive sim but instead of a typical horror theme they go with hard and fast DnB on the first level where you're being hounded and chased through the corridors which just kicks the anxiety into overdrive.

Video games, even more than movies and series, are a multimedia experience where the sum of the parts are ALMOST always bigger than their elements in isolation. Sekiro's soundtrack without the rhythmic clanging of metal; resident evil without the groans and ambient sounds; fallout without the wind, radio and Geiger counter; none of them would be the same experience or even soundscape if took in isolation. Marco does such a great job of understanding and reading songs without their context that we might forget that his mind is filling the gaps with his own experiences, which a lot of the other music experts might not have. Overall, great video and I hope to keep seeing more people talking about videogame OSTs (also, a coop run with one or more of your friends who do play videogames, or are interested, would be awesome)

One thing that I feel went kind of under discussed is how much this music has to be structurally modular by design. Maria's theme has to loop the calm bits all through the first phase and be written in such a way that it can segueway into the big choir part. So there needs to be a lot of consideration as to how the moving parts all coalesce and react to the action, which makes the music interactive to a degree that's not present on any other media . But that is a limitation when listened without that context. As for classical musicians resonating with metal, metal has been playing around with neoclassical and symphonic elements for a while now, so it's kind of vindicating to see that being recognised.

Your former mentor’s critiques were particularly calculated. For me listening to them, it was wounding in a way. I don’t wanna think of what he would say to Soken’s Flow. That song made me cry and that song being painfully critiqued would be crushing for me.

@darkerrex1442

Ай бұрын

What i remember from my teacher are "The harsher the critic the more impressed they are and they wanna see you be even better" from what i see it's not being saying "you should do this" But "you have the skill to do it better"

@NCemloen

Ай бұрын

​@@darkerrex1442 be cautious with this mindset though, because this is a sliding slope into outright hate. And will devolve into dismissal of effort. Actually can I say I hate this thought process. Because when people say this. They easily forget that the critic didn't say they expected better. Because that's usually the case. It may be motivating to some, but this type of talk has crushed more than aided. For one painful reason. Where are the compliments? No seriously. Critic isn't only about pointing out bad things. It needs to mention the goods things or else it will fail as criticism. And this mindset you mention will always gloss over that. Extreme criticism, needs equal amounts of praise for what was done right. So that way all aspects can grow if someone is going to be harsh in their opinion. It's why most review videos on KZread suck in my opinion. But they don't give due credit, when all they talk about is negatives.

@darkerrex1442

Ай бұрын

@@NCemloen Thank you for the warning there, and yes i sometimes took a bit to notice was it hate or a harsh critics, looking back though with unfortunate growing up environment i was in i guess this mindset is a way for me to cope, heck my parents is the one that told me this and i took it to heart but never tried to see the negative effects of this, thanks for the enlightenment!

so glad you finally put out a video like this man, this series of yours is something i think is genuinely so important to not just the videogame music industry but to the music industry as a whole to be honest. your channel has been a bastion of putting some goddamn respect on its name yaknow and i love that, call it an exaggeration but i consider it genuine heroism to the community. if i am to interject my own little piece of nuance into this discussion, the take that a lot of musicians regarding the use of synthetic sounds in videogame music which i think can be a larger discussion on the use of synthetic instrumentation in the music industry as a whole across all mediums. i think its very easy to chalk it up as like :oh they're old they dont get it" and its just as easy to say "well i think organix sound is superior because reasons a b and c" or whatever. but i think regardless of our tastes and preferences on the matter, i think it cant be ignored that we are witnessing a renaissance, and witnessing musical innovations being made live right before our ears and eyes. now, i personally grew up being a fan of electronic music both as what you'd hear commercially and its role in more narrative driven things like videogames and movies and such so i dont deny that my perspective is a little pro leaning on the matter. but i think a lot of us can agree that electronic music is opening up a literal universe of soundscape possibilities for us to evoke emotions in our compositions and our stories in ways never before possible. on top of that, the stories we tell in the modern age now have genres like sci fi, cyberpunk, solar punk, space exploration, retro 8bit and all these other genres that i personally believe mesh so so well with what we can do synthetically. i dont mean to sound all warhammer mechanicus on you guys about it but you get the point. the omnissiah provides and we relish in their bounty i've honestly loved paying attention to every single one of marco's guests have mostly positive, but sometimes polarizing takes on the matter with their experience and expert opinion in mind. i still dont agree with the professionals who didnt fuck with it but it was cool to hear that they still came from a place of compassion for the composers. that being said, i think at the end of the day, the representation marco has done for videogame music cannot be overstated. this is good shit, and people are recognizing that more and more both amongst professionals and the masses. much like marco's take on gacha games, if games bad or if games stigmatized, even if such stigma was even remotely true, MUSIC GOOD MAN. music very good

Absolutely been loving this series and this video is a perfect summary of everything we've all learned together throughout it.

Thanks for interesting and valuable video as always ❤❤❤

Amazing video sir! I have so much gratitude for your beautiful perspective on video game music--being unafraid to take this medium and examine it from an angle that is close to you, in a way that must be vulnerable to do in front of such a large audience.

I immensely enjoy these videos. Keep them coming.

I hope to see this series keep continuing, it's very insightful to see how each person brings something new to the conversations. Everyone enjoys or critiques in their own way, but I am glad most tend to enjoy even though its not their most preferred.

What a great summary of this whole experiment so far. This video is exactly what I was waiting for. Thank you Marco and I hope you can continue your mission for as long as you are able ❤

Marco, what an amazing project you've conducted. While watching I kept being reminded about the frustrations expressed by an incredible video game composer about how under analyzed vgm is in journalistic media. Thanks a lot for what you do I've learned a lot over the last months from your channel.

I really loved those streams u did with your opera industry friends, couse they were so enlightening for us gamers as well since most of us never got into contact with opera music after all.

This format has been one of my favourite things on this site from the beginning. I do hope you will have more chances to continue these conversations

What an amazing conclusion to this series of videos. This channel is really unique

@MarcoMeatball

Ай бұрын

@francomacrillanti2647

Ай бұрын

@@MarcoMeatball thats amazing news i love this series!!!

thanks so much for your work, Marco! for many years when people ask what kind of music i like, i've always felt the need to skirt around saying "oh i love listening to game OSTs" because im afraid people will think i JUST like playing video games and i dont actually care about music I'm so glad you're working against that :D keep it up, im super proud of you!

Brilliant work Mr Meatball :) many thanks for this next step on your journey through guiding these lovely talented people into this other side of the die

Good quality video, will be waiting for more. :)

this was an amazing episode. loved it

What an impactful video! That was great!

This is a great compilation of your efforts to join these two universes.

I loved this series. Loved it when people had mixed feelings, those people were very thoughtful in their responses, and loved it when they liked it too.

I originally found this channel through FF14 vids and was intrigued by the premise of this series when you started doing it. It's awesome to hear your findings and I look forward to seeing what other insights you uncover with this project.

Marco, oh my god, oh my god, Marco. This video is EXACTLY what I'd been hoping for from the entire series. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Love seeing the culmination of a year of collaborations

I just found your Non-gamers react videos and watched the whole playlist XD It has been really interesting, fun, and informative listening to all of their thoughts and opinions about the different game music. Also love the variety of music that you presented to them. I thoroughly enjoyed the whole series! Thank you!!

@MarcoMeatball

9 күн бұрын

Glad you like them!

One reaction I go back to a lot is... I believe it was the first time you had Garth on to listen to video game music. Watching him listen to Die Mittsommernacht-Fantasie and breaking down why he liked it was such a treat to see honestly.

I've been loving this series. To see it from other people's points of view, especially since they don't play video games. I have a song that is incredibly dear to my heart. If I hear it, I WILL get goose bumpbs, and I will most likely tear tear up. I showed it to some friends, and they were very indifferent about it they thought it was a good song and all but not super great. They had no idea why I was gushing over it. It was then it hit me. This song meant so much to me, because of the way it has been introduced to me in the game. It literally boils down a character arc into a song. I literally had to pause the game because I couldn't see, since I was ugly crying. The song is called "The Other Promise" from kingdom hearts 2. Honestly, I'd rather recommend you play the game and get the full experience, rather than just listening to it, but I'd love to get your reaction on it.

Great video! Video game music really is fantastic! :) (Looking forward to more videos on Stellar Blade music!)

Yeah, I had the second hand *oof* after Kostis dunked on Zero's strings/synth, especially after you just listened to the live version like a week ago at that time.

One of the greatest showcasings of how impactful songs are, in regard to games, is how people who've played a game with some epic moment in it will have an emotional response hearing the song again later.

Congrats for 300K!

ohhhhhhhhhhhh why did i only see this synthesis video just now. im so happy that we have a professional that loves video game music this much!

Hilary's story analysis of Smiles From Juran was so freaking accurate, wow!

2:30 before i watch further: i was almost expecting that to happen. the thing is when you know something in and out you notice every little thing thats off. when you are faced with something you spent little to no time with its harder, mayber impossible and you just pass these without notice. at least thats what happens to me regularly with cooking.

There's a part of me that is curious what many of them would have thought of game soundtracks that are quite Dynamic; i.e the music changes such as a few instruments in a track being removed or added in real-time depending on the situation (Rain World's threat tracks are a good example of this) because I feel like that is something fairly unique to video games.

@jurtheorc8117

Ай бұрын

No Straight Roads comes to mind for me on the point of dynamic soundtracks. Boss themes have three variations: They start out with a Neutral/Normal version, shift more and more to the EDM version when the boss is doing better, and shifts more and more to Rock instead when the player is getting the upper hand.

A lot of 90s music in video games is in that era where the tools are capable but not supremely capable of quite a variety of genres, hell the sheer amount of jungle music you get as the 2000s approaches is absurd! Definitely an era to dive into for more offshoot genres and mixes.

I have a thought: Do you feel similarities to how classical musicians feel about music made for video games vs their attitudes in the past (or even now) towards EDM or hip-hop rap or other subculture forms of music? I have classical musician friends and even opera singers friends and sometimes getting them to admit they like, listen to or find other forms of music to be good is like pulling their teeth out. Music is music, it's just taste, not quality usually. I can't see anything in the way beyond stark ego into elitism. I even ask about why YOUNGER generations don't try to branch things into mainstream by writing their own branching works, like rock operas. I usually get stonewalled and the conversation goes nowhere; which inevitably makes one not want to indulge them on the topic and they continue to talk about "no one appreciates classical or opera". No duh, not when you have the stonewall up. I love Dancing Mad personally, or EDM songs like Spente Le Stelle's Trance Mix (which got the opera song BLOWN UP well into mainstream) but usually a friend will say it's just "Opera-like". Like geez.

@IvoryMadness.

Ай бұрын

That might be a good idea!

I think this is one of the most important things you've set out to do, and I'm glad you've chosen this path. I... sort of understand why there's this chasm between what's thought of as "real" culture by some, as in old-world high society approved forms of art held in high esteem by traditionalists, and modern media. And that goes beyond games, there are still people who don't accept movies, shows, and entire genres of music as being "real" art. But that's an arbitrary and (to me) nonsensical line, you can't gatekeep what counts as being culture and art. The ultimate function of art is to make you think and feel, to leave *some* kind of lasting impact on your person. IMHO, everything else is secondary to that. If games, and in this case video game music, can accomplish that... why does it matter that they don't conform to ideals of culture and taste handed down from a world that literally doesn't exist anymore? There's nothing wrong with accepting new inventions and experimentation with old art forms, if we didn't then the literal entirety of what we think of as modern music (as in, arguably, everything after Jazz) wouldn't exist. Video game music, as sprawling of a "genre" as that is, is as valid as anything else. And I'm glad you're trying to open people's eyes to that, and blending worlds. Keep doing what you do man.

That is an interesting experiment indeed.

Gotta say with the mention of Ace Attorney (even if only in editing,) I'd really love to see you listen to some songs from Ace Attorney. The Music from those games is really great, especially from The Great Ace Attorney Chronicles and Professor Layton vs Phoenix Wright.

@MarcoMeatball I watched some of your WH40K videos, and I saw how much you loved the music; there is a WH40k game called Rogue Trader that was released last year; look into its music, especially the live choir of its Main Theme song, 'Semper Serviente', I am sure you will enjoy them.

To this day I think all around with "LA HEEE" from shadow bringers in my head haha

10/10, i knew you were building up to something like this

Did you voice one of the characters in the current Genshin Event?

@vingvingduy1779

Ай бұрын

Dvorak was voiced by him if im not mistaken

Unrelated to the video, one game that needs to be more praised by its OST is Hitman: Blood Money. I'm somewhat new to the channel and I'm not sure anyone recommended him this OST, but he needs to listen to it eventually. Jesper Kyd is a soundtrack god and his work on Hitman is insane. Unfortunately the game is not very known outside of Hitman fans. The Main Theme from Blood Money it's one of my favorite pieces from all videogame music I've heard.

@jurtheorc8117

Ай бұрын

Agreed on Jesper Kyd's skill. He worked on Darksiders 2 as well and he did fantastic work on that one. Did the soundtracks for Borderlands 2 and Darktide as well, if i'm not mistaken.

algorithm gods bless this video 🙏

I've said for a while that if you want to find modern classical music, you have to go to video games and metal bands. Especially European metal bands, many are classically trained. The singer for Powerwolf use to be an opera singer. Tarja is an incredible opera singer that went solo after exiting the band Nightwish. It is no surprise to me your guests connected to the metal tracks

@christerjakobsen8107

Ай бұрын

Also, the former vocalist of Kamelot, Roy Khan, is a classically trained opera singer. He had to quit because of health issues, sadly.

I hear Crash Bandicoot music at the beginning and I just can't help myself but say the jetpack levels of Crash 2 (Rock It and Pack Attack) have one of the most sublime and emotional pieces I've ever heard in my life, despite the MIDI-esque approach that many would scoff at nowadays. Like it's to the point I just realized I'm actually afraid of playing the remake now, because I'm definitely sure once I get to those levels my heart's just gonna split in half from too much ugly crying (twice as strongly as the original already does). That's how powerful it is to me.

What's the music from the status quo section

Marco: DS3 Archthrones official soundtrack playlist. Publisher Solas Composer

Into the Wilderness - Wild Arms 1 ? pls ? XD

ok so i searched the channel and didnt see anything that references 1999's outcast, which isnt surprising as its not like it has the biggest cult following in gaming but it was notable at the time for hiring the moscow symphony orchestra for its original score. that seemed like a milestone moment for sound anyway. so if you havent had anyone recommend that one at you yet for your own curiosity, outcast 1999. im watching this one right now of course btw and its good edit: rip singer songwriter scott walker imagine if he scored a survival horror game

Your teachers really impressed by yu peng chen's works 😎

Please listen "Xenosaga - Promised Pain"

Bro hasn't introduced "Once in a lullaby" to them yet

7:20 I think the quote with Nobuo Uematsu is that this is already prevalent with the newer Final Fantasy games Look at 14 and look at Shadowbringers, we’re heavier with the electric guitar (thanks Soken for being the musical godsend you are) for the basic battle theme. “Shadowbringers” is comparably an ambient rock anthem for the DLC’s trailer piece than a choral tale of battle like “Heavensward” for the trailer of that DLC

literaly Ebenholz like rock

F### the rules!-Marco. Lol.

I'm confused by people trying to differ between art and entertainment. When you are appreciating art, aren't you also being entertained at the same time? (e.g. when watching an opera)

Hey look.. it's dvorak, again

You should listen to Ark: Survival Evolved's soundtracks. There's a "how it's made" video by the director too. Most of the songs are real as well.

I feel like you need blind reviews to eliminate the natural bias that could come with "oh it's just video game music". Like finding classical music, perhaps some that's a bit obscure or less popular, then mixing reactions to video game music with those performances and having them react to each. That way they never know if it's classically trained orchestras/arrangements or video game music.

I was under the impression that classical musicians hate metal. I was proven horrobly wrong by this video 😅

I'm 27 now, and started going to classical music concerts at 26 for the first time. Last year I've been to 7 classical music concerts and fell in love with it. The reason I was afraid of going is because of them, those people who are overly critical of everything. I was afraid of going because of being judged. The culture just is NOT appealing, you feel judged just by being there and really wanting to be respectful and not mess up the unwritten rules. Dressing a certain way, knowing when to clap, when to stand, having to be aware and make sure you don't mess up because wow, look at the only muslim women who's here in the entire hall, the stares, the STARES. Luckily the people next to me have always been so kind and caring, and curious. And that's why it has been easier for me to go, because being there in person, if I could become an NPC, I would love to be there, in a concert hall. Sadly, the orchestra is getting less and less funding each year, and the ticket pricing doesn't look that great at 30+. For me it's now at €15, but it gets worse. Seating wise, i don't get how they provide the cheapest tickets to people who they should actively look for and feel welcomed. The one that's affordable is the seat all the way at the side, or the first row where you only have to look up to be eye to eye with the cellist. Like how does that make sense? The truth is, they have to get rid of the purist way of thinking if they 1. Want to financially survive and 2. Most importantly want to help younger people ease into classical music,ease into exploring more of what they already love. Imagine someone picking up the violin for the first time because of genshin, or another video game because how moved they feel to be able to play the same thing. If they keep saying that that is not real music, and only have the classical musicians perform the classicals, there is no way you'll have the arts survive, no way you'll have the next generation want to be in those concert halls, or want to pick up an instrument. I'm so sure that if they held a concert including those video game sounds, the whole hall would be filled with people from all ages and all tickets sold. The genshin impact concerts are proof of that.

I'm disappointed theres no skyrim dovahkin theme song here

Castlevania lords of shadow ost please by Oscar Araujo

I wonder have any Marco guest heard Kafka theme from Honkai star rail? I want to know their opinion about it. I saw Marco reaktion and i like it.

Marco, you really have to check out Democrawler from Stellar Blade, I think you would make an amazing cover for it!

now make them listen to EVERY Guilty Gear music

Some of the more harsher critics seem like they’re only saying that because the music is from video games. If you said it was from a more “respected” form of media I guarantee their opinion would change

The incredible hypocrisy of classical musicians, people whose entire career revolves around music written centuries ago, complaining that modern takes on the genre aren't new enough, just blows my mind. Like, talk about double standards.

are people seriously just slapping their pronouns on their.. video display name things now? as if anyone could confuse these people