What I love the most about hydrogen is the complexity, inefficiency, high cost, and danger.

@keithdow8327

7 ай бұрын

His next review is the Hindenburg, "The Hottest Vehicle Ever Built!".

@chisaomusician7752

7 ай бұрын

Have fun putting out your lithium fire.

@gemada99

7 ай бұрын

@@chisaomusician7752 ICE vehicle fires 20x more common than BEV. Thanks for playing!

@brushlessmotoring

7 ай бұрын

@@chisaomusician7752 6kg of 10,000 psi hydrogen right next to the passengers. Are you sure you want to play this game?

@Neojhun

7 ай бұрын

@@chisaomusician7752 Gangwon Technopark H2 Fueling Station in Gangneung in South Korea had an explosion soo big it damaged the Next Door Office Building. The Fueling Station Building was a total loss. Not even a Tesla MegaPack can do that. 2 People DEAD.

Just a waste of resources to add hydrogen fueling stations everywhere. It’s absurd.

@mahasish

3 ай бұрын

Same was said for EV chargers during intial days.

You're right. Impractical

I honestly think this could be the solution for long distance trucking.

I wish there was a fully electric X5

@nc3826

7 ай бұрын

it is a fully electric X5

@brushlessmotoring

7 ай бұрын

@@nc3826 he means with a plug, so you can pay 5 cents per mile for electricity rather than $1 per mile for hydrogen.

@samthecar

7 ай бұрын

The phev is so based tho 🥰

@nc3826

7 ай бұрын

@@brushlessmotoring my triggered friend I never said it was a good idea did I?

@srl0003

7 ай бұрын

@@brushlessmotoring exactly, thank you

BMW tries to learn about this technology for 30+ years with no volume model ever brought to market. To me this is yet another way to burn some government subsidies. Hydrogen technology is fascinating, but given the EXPENSIVE facts the application in a passenger car is just a dead end. Let‘s make use of it where it really makes sense.

This kind of has me wondering if we might see a future PHEV where the fuel is hydrogen. So you could charge and do your city driving on a 60 mile range, say, and then go 4-500 miles on hydrogen.

@alen32896

7 ай бұрын

Not feasible right now. Hydrogen tech is even more expensive and heavy than EV. More likely to see EV charging become better

@brushlessmotoring

7 ай бұрын

This car has 200 miles of real range (see the dash) on 6kg tanks that sit under the back seats and between the driver and passender. To double that to 12 kg ($432 fill-up) to ger the 400 mile range, you would have to start taking up the trunk space, then add 40 kWh of batteries to get your 60 miles of EV range. It's not practical, you can't package it, you are paying the cost and space penalty for both systems. I'd much rather we solved road trip charging (which is already pretty good in a Tesla) for all cars - and I think Tesla is doing that with NACS adoption by Ford, GM etc..

@volkero3132

7 ай бұрын

Mercedes has tried this with the GLC F-CELL plug-in hybrid.

@brushlessmotoring

7 ай бұрын

@@volkero3132 cool - didn't know about that one - stats from a page I found on the GLC F-CELL - was it ever released / sold? "The hydrogen-based range of the models is 437 km and an additional 49 km in battery electric mode." 4.4 kg H2 tank and 13.8 kWh battery, 7.2 kW AC charging would fill that battery in just under 2 hours. It's a shame Toyota hates plugs so much, a 13.8 kWh battery in the Mirai would have made the recent price spike in CA a little less desperate.

@heistbrian5486

7 ай бұрын

Last year I looked into this and it is definitely a potential part of future mobility. The fuel cell system weight, including the 5.6kg hydrogen with >400mi range, for the Toyota Mirai is around 200lbs per my understanding. The fuel cell stack in the first generation Mirai was 56kg and the new one is smaller (not sure how much). The hydrogen tanks collectively weigh 24kg. Recently I found a YT video that recited some precise numbers. So that's the FC system. By contrast, a model 3 battery weighs about 1070 lbs. PHEV batteries are about 1/7 the size of a BEV, assuming the same vehicle so I figure 200 lbs should be reasonable for the battery portion of a small-mid size SUV. The battery won't add much volume, H2 gas volume of course being the FCEV downside others have emphasized. I think the advantages of FCEVs over BEVs manifest as you move into the mid-large SUV/truck category. Of note, Honda is testing FCEV CRVs on roads around Japan currently and plans sales for North America starting in 2024. There is a burgeoning market in the Vancouver - Edmonton area.

The hydrogen capacity meter said that it was approx 50% full, but it states that it has only 94 miles of range.... so 200 miles on a full charge ?

@videopyc

7 ай бұрын

The prototype car must have a small amount of hydrogen storage. A true hydrogen car should have a larger amount of hydrogen storage. Car body should be designed around hydrogen technology.

@shithead4767

7 ай бұрын

​@videopyc didn't he say it has a 6kg tank which is the biggest available

@brushlessmotoring

7 ай бұрын

Correct. It showed 1.9kg per 100km as the efficiency on the dash, for a 6kg tank, thats 315km of range, or 197 miles. Hydrogen Fuel Cells are very inefficient when you draw on them hard, so you put one in a fast car, if people drive fast, you get way worse than the WLTP range. Mirai drivers already know this, to get the rated range you have to hypermile it a bit and stay below 55mph, it's worse than just the increased drag above 55mph that all cars get. Highway speeds cripple the range of hydrogen cars, and the volume the tanks take up, even at 10,000 PSI pressure, mean you still can't chuck 20kg of hydrogen in the car to solve the range problem. California at $36 per kg comes in at over $1 per mile for the hydrogen X5 - it's much less efficient than the Mirai.

@Mac10943

7 ай бұрын

The dash calculates range based off of your driving efficiency, just like it does with your gas car. So if you wail on the accelerator, get lower MPG, it’ll adjust and show lower range. Same with this. Looking at the dash tells you nothing about true range

@Mac10943

7 ай бұрын

@@brushlessmotoringNo, not correct at all. Clearly you don’t understand how range is calculated on the dash of cars

20 mile commute Model 3 $0.72 Fusion energi $0.72 Mirai $20.16 @ $13.14/kilo H2

@brushlessmotoring

7 ай бұрын

And it's now $36/kg in CA

Kyle, please try to test drive the Zeekr 001 in Norway

Is hydrogen fuel liquid and why do you need battery to run the vehicle?

Hydrogen is a great fuel (for incredibly specific and niche industrial uses and literally nobody else on Earth should ever touch it)

@keithdow8327

7 ай бұрын

I like it when we burn it in the sun and use the light it makes for solar power.

@OnyxKami

7 ай бұрын

Everybody talks like the Nissan Leaf doesn't exist.

@skataskatata9236

7 ай бұрын

hydrogen cars are a meme at this point. a running joke...

Hydrogen gets the views because it’s weird and therefore interesting 😆 Also, where I see it making sense is as a range extender. To make a road-trippable electric suburban you could build it with an 80kWh battery for 80 miles of all electric every day driving range then you also have a Fuel Cell Range extender to be able to pay the extra coin to road trip long distance.

@volkero3132

7 ай бұрын

Mercedes has tried this with a small battery with the GLC F-CELL plug-in hybrid.

Still waiting for your iX3 review🙏🏻

Have been driving the Toyota Mirai for almost 3 years and it has been an absolutely wonderful experience. Living in an apartment without charging (which is a problem shared with >50% of car drivers in the world), battery EVs make no sense, whereas Mirai had worked perfectly for me. No problem refueling in SF bay, with 400 miles of range added with just 4-5 mins of refueling, just like a normal gas car. The only folks who oppose hydrogen vehicles on social media are battery fanatics and fanbois, who spread the typical inefficiency propaganda of battery industry, which just looks at one small aspect of energy picture. Both battery and hydrogen vehicles are necessary for decarbonization of transportation.

@brushlessmotoring

7 ай бұрын

What speed are you driving to get that 400 mile range? How much are you paying for hydrogen per kg right now - what is that per mile? What do you think of Shell pulling out of the Bay Area H2 filling? How many miles have you clocked up in 3 years? How far through your $15,000 gas card are you now? What did your building say about adding some 110V sockets to the parking? Because I would hate to think you don't actually have a hydrogen car, and are just reading from Toyota's spec sheet without ever having driven or lived with one. The Mirai drivers I follow on KZread have bad filling experiences on a regular basis, the do not describe it as "wonderful", they have been struggling with the skyrocketing price, the reddit users forum is full of folks working out how to sell, and that red Mazda in your drone video from Oregon a year ago sure looks nice, I'm sure it was a rental .... The Big Picture problem with hydrogen is it delays decarbonization by giving people an excuse to stick with their gasoline cars, living in an apartment is not a deal breaker - it's harder - but it's not impossible. Feel free to post a video of your Mirai road trips, I've posted my Tesla ones - EVs work fine, and I only have 110V charging at home, and you can go a lot further than California in them. Sincerely, a "battery fanatic and fanbois" - whatever that means - who opposes hydrogen because it is used as an excuse to keep burning gasoline (as well all the other problems of it being made from fossil fuels or wasting 3 to 4 times as much energy, costing millions per filling station and so on and so forth).

@lesliecarter4295

7 ай бұрын

@@brushlessmotoring 🤡

@theichione1827

7 ай бұрын

Do you know what the expiration date is for your hydrogen tank (should be on the fill door)? Curious because in the past I think it was around 10 years and wondered if things had improved.

@GautamPrabhakar

7 ай бұрын

@@theichione1827 It has always been 15 years. Both previous generation and this generation has 15 year use by date. According to a Toyota Research employee who I spoke to, after 15 years, it is very likely that the tanks will be recertified and still be usable, just like CNG and other pressurized tanks. Even 15 years is not bad given the average lifetime of vehicles in US is 12 years. At any rate, the lifetime of tanks will still exceed batteries by 5+ years, and their replacement cost will likely be half that of any equivalent range battery replacement.

I agree. It's fun to learn about how hydrogen power works, but it's definitely not the best solution for vehicles. The biggest challenge that hydrogen has to overcome is its poor efficiency. You typically lose over half of the energy when you convert electricity into hydrogen and back. Where as with batteries it's usually 90%+ efficient.

@_shreyash_anand

7 ай бұрын

It's not the best solution for passenger cars. It could be for other vehicles. Like aeroplanes.

@macberry4048

7 ай бұрын

The problem is some people still want their big SUV

@brianb5723

7 ай бұрын

@@macberry4048 You could have stopped at, "The problem is some people still want their big SUV."

@macberry4048

7 ай бұрын

@@brianb5723 point taken

@nc3826

7 ай бұрын

The hydrogen inefficiency talking point is misleading and counterproductive.... human beings base decisions on 'value' not efficiency.... FCEV are not competitive at this point in time, so it's amusing how it such a 'trigger point'.....

Seems like a bigger iX3 😊

I feel like it could be interesting to see a Hybrid of BEV and Hydrogen. The hydrogen can be a range extender of some sort. Use the idea of the i3, but replace the engine with hydrogen fuel cell

@FuncleChuck

7 ай бұрын

No. Honda has done this it and it’s absolute trash. They’re still planning a Hydrogen/PHEV CRV and it’s a tragedy. Hydrogen is not fit for passenger cars

@Mac10943

7 ай бұрын

@@FuncleChuckLol. That’s not going to age too well

Using a large amount of electricity to create hydrogen fuel, then transport the hydrogen to a hydrogen station using electric or gas truck, then put it in a car to turn back into electricity. So inefficient compared to battery electric vehicles lol

@minecraftchest1

7 ай бұрын

There are multiple ways to collect hydrogen fuel IIRC. Using electricity is only one.

@brushlessmotoring

7 ай бұрын

@@minecraftchest1 and the other methods mostly emit CO2 and CH4 into the atmosphere. If you go the nuclear route it is insanely expensive, and you have to guard the waste for a million years. Use what little green hydrogen we have as a chemical feed stock for hard to abate industries like ammonia, steel and glass, don't waste it on transport when we have a ready to go solution right now - invest in more chargers, don't waste money on hydrogen filling stations that cost millions to install and hundreds of thousands to maintain. Shell is pulling out of hydrogen filling in California and the UK, it's a waste of money with no profit in sight, ever. Hydrogen is dead for road transport, and that includes trucks, it's over, the Mirai proved how unworkable and unscalable it is. This not for sale prototype from BMW should have been canceled before it hit the streets, it will be used to stop people from getting EVs by showing them a Hydrogen car they cannot buy - the net result? They keep burning Gasoline - which is what Toyota wants, that's why they fund anti EV misinformation and lobby against emission reductions, the sooner they have their 'Kodak Moment' the better.

@Mac10943

7 ай бұрын

Same can be said about gasoline, and yet consumers don’t care whatsoever, and it has no effect on practicality. That argument really doesn’t make any sense

@brushlessmotoring

7 ай бұрын

@@Mac10943 if gasolines only sin was inefficiency, then cost would be the only thing that matters, consumers could choose less efficient gasoline at a higher price, or harder to use EVs for less money. But that's a reductive argument, it misses the entire point, it's not just about price or efficiency, it's about pollution. EVs offer the fastest, cheapest, easiest route to decarbonization if a car is your only option.

Looking at your hydrogen fuel gauge, I am not sure your expectations of range are well founded. Half a tank and you have only 94 miles range. SUV and FCEV for the win! And can you describe what precious metals are in an EV battery? As opposed to what in all of the fuel cell stack? And did you check out the scrapping date on the fuel door? Fuel cells are only rated for 5000 hours and a replacement costs more then a few car because the entire system needs to be recertified. So 5000 hours on is pretty much the whole cars life span. So absolutely not a stuck in traffic commuting car.

Gangwon Technopark H2 Fueling Station in Gangneung in South Korea had an explosion soo big it damaged the Next Door Office Building. 2 People DIED. The Fueling Station Building itself was a total loss. Not sure why we even allow large amount of this stuff near populated areas. "most of the windows of the 5-story building, which is about 100 m away and faced to the hydrogen tank, are all crushed" ("Behavior of Barrier Wall under Hydrogen Storage Tank Explosion with Simulation and TNT Equivalent Weight Method", used as a case study in this scientific paper)

I read the hydrogen tanks leak so hydrogen isn’t transported. It’s also harmful to environment. Therefore, it is produced while filling vehicle. Correct?

How would you refuel this in NY? DoE map says that the only fueling stations in the US are in CA. It'd be interesting to see you cover CNG cars, which are a little easier on the infrastructure side due to allowing at-home refueling.

@macberry4048

7 ай бұрын

Electric cars are the perfect solution for the city and there only going to get better

@gunnaraas218

7 ай бұрын

@@macberry4048 I absolutely agree, I was mainly interested in how there was a HCEV in NYC when the nearest fueling station is on the opposite side of the country. CNG is also just interesting, as I feel there’s been very little public dialogue about it for personal transport, and it seems to have some major benefits over ICE.

@nc3826

7 ай бұрын

PHEV, FCEV problem solved.... And hydrogen not the only possible fuel.....

@FuncleChuck

7 ай бұрын

Public hydrogen is MOSTLY only in CA. Plenty of “fleets” use it, so there are plenty of private fueling stations that support hydrogen around the country. Of course that’s completely useless for a passenger car.

@Ed20942

7 ай бұрын

They get the hydrogen itself from chemical supply companies in the area, and they buy expensive tanks and pumps to get it into the car (probably loaded on a flat bed truck).

gorgeous 9-3 at 20:37

Awesome 👍🏻

Beautiful 😍

The most common ev battery is now lithium iron phosphate and uses no precious metals like fuel cells. Maybe that will change someday too. However, The cradle to grave energy consumption for producing h2 using current methods, that includes transportation, storage and gas delivery is prohibitive. It's not even close. Lots of info showing why it will never be a viable solution for cars. At best ships.. It's very complicated and expensive. The race is over. The fuel cell car is at best a science experiment. But hey, it's BMWs dime. Also don't run out, far worse range anxiety with h2. Your buddy with a ev won't help charge it.

Big issue is if every hydrogen car will also need a battery.... You fix the range issue BUT with a much smaller battery you also increase degradation so you will most likely have to replace the battery at some point.

@brushlessmotoring

7 ай бұрын

Yup. And this is already impacting gasoline hybrids, and the dealers rip their customers off, charging $10,000 for a 2kWh battery (some e-bikes have bigger batteries). It sounds like this buffer battery will get worked fairly hard too, the Mirai works to minimize battery draw and that's why the performance is so middling.

@iKaGe01

7 ай бұрын

@@brushlessmotoring So all hydrogen vehicles have in positives is something that given about 10 years won't be an issue at all. I don't doubt batteries will charge to 80% within about 5 minutes by the next decade

@brushlessmotoring

7 ай бұрын

@@iKaGe01 yeah - and to be honest, we are pretty close already, if you 'charger hop' from 5% to 50% on 250kW / 350kW chargers that can get done in 8 minutes, hydrogen cars at high speeds get really poor range, so it's close to even. I've done long trips on Tesla's 250kW network, and you really find yourself feeling 'rushed' during washroom breaks, the car is nagging you on your phone that charging is nearly complete if the coffee lineup is even a little slow ....

If I can't refuel in my garage while I sleep, then I'm not interested. Hard pass.

@nc3826

5 ай бұрын

If I can't have the potential to burn down my garage while I sleep, then I'm not interested. Hard pass.

I'll pass on the hydrogen but at least the massive BMW grilles serve some purpose on this car, i suppose.

This is the future. Need to build infrastructure. Save a lot of time compare to charge a battery.

Please continue with new technology, even though I have purchased 2 EV's of different makers, a 2023 Kia Niro and a 2023 Chevy EUV, I am dying to see what possibilities are coming down the road, pun intended.

Perhaps not "daily commutes", but longer range driving -- long-range trucking, for sure, but even passenger cars/medium-duty trucks used for regular, longer distance drives (including multiple deliveries per day where having to stop to charge only costs the driver time/money -- at least until BEV tech achieves faster recharging and/or greater range batteries. But then there's aviation -- and no option to "refuel" on a transcontinental flight -- and bigger batteries just add to the problem with their additional weight. Perhaps, more energy dense batteries -- the only true option -- will make BEVs practical for some (all?) aviation situations. But, how about hydrogen as a storage method? Less efficient than using a solar panel to directly charge a car, but storage is needed for when the EV doesn't need electrons, but then does on a cloudy day -- the sun isn't always shining and even when it is, it doesn't shine for as long in the winter!

Know what makes the most sense for personal mobility?? Combustion engines…

Can you imagine trying to find someone that could work on this thing? 😂

❤

Thank you for the FCEV post. FCEVs are not on par with EVs but it is still an interesting alternative for the future. But it will be as a PHEV,, IMHO with a much larger battery pack and a much smaller FC stack and fuel tanks. Which will be much more cost effective to produce. FC mode will just be for long trips. Charging will supply most of the energy for most owners. And there is a good chance that methanol will be utilized instead of hydrogen. Kyle, a story like this only triggers the average EV advocate, just like battery swapping did a few years ago. So it'll be interesting to see if your podcast audience will be more receptive? It's also Intriguing how you dismiss prototypes in general, except for FCEV prototypes. I look forward to the podcast, with an engineer. (The BMW marketing rep, spin on the topic was counterproductive)

Hydrogen for heavy duty work vehicles is a yes, but everyday typical driving still needs more development and infrastructure.

@brushlessmotoring

7 ай бұрын

I think the Tesla Semi is going to put an end to the heavy truck argument too, we'll see how the Pepsi trials go, but it's looking pretty promising so far. You would need sooooo much space to get decent range out of a hydrogen truck, at that point, you are transporting hundreds of kg of 10,000 psi hydrogen behind every big rig - so every big rig becomes a dangerous load.

Jeff sounds like a sales man 💀 but like Kyle asked his 1st question 2 times and then he talks about going electric but how can you go hydrogen powered cars in the USA. lol just don’t bring any hydrogen cars here, knowing we don’t no hydrogen stations.

@nc3826

7 ай бұрын

'we don’t no hydrogen stations' lol.... What did you expect from the marketing rep?

"Today, close to 95 percent of hydrogen production is from fossil fuels like natural gas and coal. As a result, we emit 830 million tonnes of CO2 each year to produce 74 million tonnes of hydrogen." "The Global Hydrogen Refueling Stations Database consists of a detailed description of 469 active and 166 planned hydrogen refueling stations around the globe as of May, 2022.12 Sept 2022" "2020 marked the first year in the UK’s history that electricity came predominantly from renewable energy, with 43% of our power coming from a mix of wind, solar, bioenergy and hydroelectric sources." "With the hydrogen-powered electric car, the losses are significantly greater: 45 percent of the energy is already lost during the production of hydrogen through electrolysis. Of this remaining 55 percent of the original energy, another 55 percent is lost when hydrogen is converted into electricity in the vehicle. This means that the hydrogen-powered electric car only achieves an efficiency of between 25 to 35 percent, depending on the model."

The hydrogen pump keeps the hydrogen at freezing temperatures and high pressure so it is a condensed useable liquid instead of a gas. Guess what doesn’t have a freezer to maintain those temperature? The car. So once put in the car the hydrogen will turn into gas and expand. The car has to vent it and after a while if you don’t use it the fuel tank will be empty. And where does that vented hydrogen gas go? Yeah. It’s not recommended you park a hydrogen car in an enclosed garage for long periods of time. That gas is explosive. Hydrogen cars are a great idea.

@nc3826

7 ай бұрын

Vampire drain is a slow, passive draining of your electric car's battery that occurs while the car is not in use. The reasons for vampire drain can be many. Among other things, built-in systems such as battery temperature control, status monitoring and Sentry Mode (theft protection) can drain the battery.

@Jeddin

7 ай бұрын

@@nc3826​​⁠ i’m not talking about vampire drain in an EV. I’m talking about the change of hydrogen liquid to hydrogen gas which requires venting as gas occupies more volume than the original pumped liquid and a hydrogen vehicle does not have a storage tank capable of holding hydrogen gas.

@nc3826

7 ай бұрын

sorry to confuse you.... Just pointing out that every energy alternative has losses during storage ....

@akacicaa

7 ай бұрын

@@nc3826 electricity doesn't leak out, can't compare

@Jeddin

7 ай бұрын

@@peterjennings30 Journal of Automotive Innovation (2020) 3:111-122. Experimental Study on Hydrogen Leakage and Emission of Fuel Cell Vehicles in Confined Spaces. Conclusions: The results showed that the hydrogen leaked from FCVs caused the hydrogen concentration in the chamber to increase linearly with time while parked. Significant spikes in hydrogen leakage were detected during vehicle start-up purge, idle purge, or shutdown purge.

My main beef with hydrogen is how folks use it to avoid BEVs and carry on burning gasoline for another decade - look at the pro hydrogen commenters here, "I'll stick with gasoline while I wait for hydrogen" is a HUGE issue - we can't afford to waste time on this, on a prototype that isn't even for sale, the Mirai has proven hydrogen does not hold a candle to BEVs, and that includes filling time when you average it out over the year and include when you were asleep, at work (maybe both) or eating while charging - zooming in on a single road trip fill doesn't prove anything about hydrogen being better when every other measurement - especially emissions, cost, maintenance and daily driving fuelling are so much worse. Hydrogen is NOT Zero emission - can we call this out please? Also, Platinum is used in fuel cells, and it degrades over time, the fuel tanks had a 10 year expirey date (notice that?), the buffer battery, 2kWh NMC will get fried like hybrid batteries often do, a Platinum or Iridium fuel cell is not less 'precious' metals than say a sodium iron phosphate battery which uses totally common materials, but even cobalt-nickel / NMC, while they are called 'precious' they are still abundant, as is lithium. What /talking/ about hydrogen does is keeps us burning gasoline - and that weighs far more than a battery does over the time a gasoline car owner continues to sit on the fence because BMW and Toyota keep /talking/ about hydrogen. If a gasoline X5 driver gets a dealer test drive in a hydrogen X5, and then cancels his i5 order to wait 20 years for a car that won't ever get made - that is an environmental disaster of BMW and Toyota's making - and they should be held accountable for this dog and pony show - this is as bad as JCB's not for sale hydrogen nonsense too. Love how Kyle corrects the 'it takes an hour to charge' misinformation from the BMW guy - clearly never road-tripped a Tesla, but I guess that is to be expected (unfortunately).

@Mac10943

7 ай бұрын

Nothing to see here, just the typical Tesla investor, battery only absolutist arguments

@brushlessmotoring

7 ай бұрын

​@@Mac10943 Show me the green hydrogen, not the news about green hydrogen in the future, the green hydrogen now. Not the 'but we can dig hydrogen out the ground, even though we never have before' - show me the zero emission hydrogen at scale *today*. It's all (97%) fossil fuels. So if we are name calling and belittling, then you sound like an Oil and Gas shill who are using hydrogen to distract and delay EVs by sowing doubt into the mind of consumers. You are pro gasoline not pro hydrogen, there is no green hydrogen to be pro about. How are you going to decarbonize the *existing* hydrogen industry, 120 million tons a year of H2, 1.2 billion tons of CO2, fugitive CH4 emissions, fix that *before* you get all excited about adding new demand to a CO2, CH4 and H2 emitting industry.

The main issue I have is it is obvious hydrogen is not the future, BMW is dumping hundreds of millions into a project that will never be useful. It would have been smarter to figure out solar on vehicles for recharging. The company who figures out how to make an EV that is not a two seater tear drop three wheeler, that can basically charge via solar most of the time, they will have huge sales success. Building the ultimate hydrogen SUV seems to have little real value to future of BMW. Just a waste of tons of money.

@brushlessmotoring

7 ай бұрын

Completely agree on the waste of effort by BMW, but pushed on them by Toyota no doubt. Solar on EVs has been tried a few times, you get very little charge from it - there are some interesting fold out solar trailer projects worth checking out, but even then, a huge origami set of panels several times the area of the car results in at best the equivalent of a slow AC charge at 4kW - not useless, but, kinda unwieldily and slow for anything other than solar camping. There would have to be a physics defying breakthrough in solar efficiency to make solar on cars worthwhile. A tour bus RV with foldouts might be able to gather enough to charge in a few sunny days.

@Mac10943

7 ай бұрын

Is it really that obvious? Or could you be wrong by chance? Lol trying to have a solar powered car is a much more foolish idea. You’d barely get any miles from it, even if you left it out in the sun and didn’t garage the car. Less than 10 miles a day most likely. They plan to go into production with this vehicle in the 2nd half of the decade, and given the massive increase in investment in hydrogen technology and refueling that has and is happening, sales should be pretty considerable. The Toyota Mirai is already selling thousands of units a year in the U.S., off of only 1 state, and there isn’t even that much infrastructure yet. 3+ years from now it’ll be a very different story

Science and electricity creates the hydrogen, then you take the hydrogen and make it into electricity... could we cut out the middle man and just go electricity to electricity? A novel idea!!!

@nc3826

7 ай бұрын

Cut out the middle man.... instead of batteries use An extension cord.... It's just another form of storage..... Science social medias magic lol

If they would let you do a towing range test of one, that'd be incredible!

@nc3826

7 ай бұрын

The problem is getting enough hydrogen refilling stations.... green methanol FCEV is more practical..... but Battery Swapping is more efficient.... all the above options make towing more practical....

Hydrogen-cars,, as smart as to carry water over the river,, 🤪🤣🤣🤣

@poxer1

7 ай бұрын

Transportation is not only cars. Trains, trucks, boats, planes are different. Hydrogen may make sense somewhere. Stay open-minded

@_shreyash_anand

7 ай бұрын

​@@poxer1absolutely. Planes are not getting battery electric ANY TIME SOON. And you know, maybe ships. Different solutions can easily co-exist. Electricity makes A LOT of sense for trains. India has 90% of all railway tracks electrified for example

@IrenESorius

7 ай бұрын

@@poxer1 Did I write Hydrogen-Trains, trucks, boats, planes,, ? Keep your eyes open, and brain switched on while reading. 🤡

@nc3826

7 ай бұрын

the only thing that I know for sure.... is that whatever beliefs we have about fuel cells and hydrogen now is that it will change in the future..... Just like it's changing about battery swapping.....

@Aircam73

7 ай бұрын

@@poxer1Yes because all those people that run trains, trucks, boats and planes like paying 5 times more for their fuel and 3 times more for their truck, bus, boat.

I think a normal electric car is no better than a petrol car as it literally uses a non renewable fuel which is lithium which is even worse for the environment when mind so yes lithium doesn’t produce anything after mining but when it was mind it was stupidily bad for the atmosphere

I see toyota mirai vehicle reviews and everybody is talking smack & negative all of a sudden bmw joins hydrogen club every reviews talking good comment and positive things about bmw hydrogen cars 😂 what is going on

All hydrogen stations (yes, every single one) just shut down and closed two weeks ago in all of Denmark ... Good luck to this stupid technology in the future 😅

It would be great if every house could have a hydrogen tank buried in the back yard, filled by solar panels on the roof, and a spout to fill up your car in the garage. Though much cheaper is a level 2 charger installed in the garage.

The main issue is, the green hydrogen will be needed to decarbonize heavy industries like cement, steel, chemical in the foreseeable future. Most likely it will take decades to build up renewables and infrastucture with everything else beeing electrified. Waiting for the point when hydrogen cars become mainstream is like waiting for cold fusion. Might happen, but properbly not in our life times. Just get a BEV until then. 😉

@GautamPrabhakar

7 ай бұрын

BEVs don’t work for more than half the population. PHEVs are so much better. Much less battery consumption and local electric miles, plus convenience of fast refueling for long road trip.

@bellumCretatus

7 ай бұрын

@@GautamPrabhakar what about the co2 emissions and the deadly gasses produced by the ICE engine of the PHEV? That does not work for the whole population!

@GautamPrabhakar

7 ай бұрын

@@bellumCretatus Making perfection an enemy of the progress is a foolish act. The carbon emissions are vastly reduced by local electric miles anyway, because the percentage of local miles is more than road trip miles for most people. Smaller battery also means less pollution per capita, because batteries also pollute and leach the environment massively, and has severe environmental degradation impacts. A much better solution is no cars ofc, but as it stands currently, no current technology will likely be cleaner than FCEVs running on green hydrogen produced by solar and wind.

@bellumCretatus

7 ай бұрын

@@GautamPrabhakar science and common sense shows that hydrogen for cars is not going to happen at a large scale any time soon. Unfortunately people in the less developed countries will suffer the most from climate change and air pollution.

@GautamPrabhakar

7 ай бұрын

@@bellumCretatus We shall see :) Having been driving a hydrogen car for almost 3 years, I can see it has a lot of benefits of battery electric cars. Once the hydrogen infrastructure is built, and green hydrogen is produced in large scale (both of which are being invested in heavily in US and other countries around the world), it will be a no brainer to drive a hydrogen EV. Maybe the best solution will be hydrogen battery hybrid. Who knows?

Cool but very dangerous 😢

Why. Just why. There are no benefits to this ‘solution’. Poor range and other inefficiencies. DANGEROUS in terms of storage and filling. Expensive. Noisy.

@TheTriumfAnt

7 ай бұрын

Because most hydrogen is produced using fossil fuels. The oil and gas industries need more customers to make up for the loss due to EVs. If Toyota had invested in a network of hydrogen stations, like Tesla did with its Supercharger network, then we might be driving FCEVs instead of BEVs. That ship has sailed. While there are uses for hydrogen, it won't be in your average car.

@minecraftchest1

7 ай бұрын

Fueling times, big trucks, energy density (maybe, not sure on this). And how dangerous is the filling process, and how dangerous is it to store? For passenger vehicles it may not make sense, but for semis, construction equipment, and other huge vehicles (there are some that make a small sedan hard to find next to it), hydrogen fuel cells make way more sense. Going all battery electric is impractical for these use cases.

@GautamPrabhakar

7 ай бұрын

Wrong! My Mirai has 400 miles of range, much higher than most battery EVs and at a lower cost. Toyota has tested the carbon fiber reinforced tanks with shooting bullets at them, and there is a very sophisticated safety system in FCEVs, which has ensured that statistically, they are safer than BEVs and ICE (only a single non-explosive fire in more than a billions miles and 7-8 years of operation), 10-100x safer than battery EVs and gas cars. Oh and there is no noise - its as quiet as any other EV because it is driven by electric motors.

@brushlessmotoring

7 ай бұрын

@@GautamPrabhakar Lower Cost!?! Now I know you don't have one - $36 per kg for 66 miles of range is not lower cost than an EV at $5 for 66 miles. It's okay to be a Toyota fan, but you have to see they made a huge mistake with hydrogen, even they realize it now and are finally putting BEVs into the market. There are not enough Mirai's on the road to rate their statistical safety yet, but the filling stations and delivery tankers sure have been catching fire at an alaming rate. This BMW / Toyota project is just the long tail of the 'sunk cost fallacy' in play.

@GautamPrabhakar

7 ай бұрын

@@brushlessmotoring 🤣🤣 keep believing what you want to bud. There are still flat earthers, but it doesn’t change the reality. Oh and it is absolutely low cost. My TCO is far lower than any BEV with comparable range. I pay $0 for refueling and will be for next few years. Plus I get to drive a luxury vehicle built on Lexus LS platform in a Lexus factory in Japan with quality and craftsmanship that makes Teslas look like a rag doll. The fuel cost will come down when green hydrogen from electrolysis scales in a few years, so I’m not worried at all but for now did I mention I pay $0? Also, there absolutely are enough Mirais to rate them statistically if you actually know statistics. The combined miles have exceeded 1 billion miles, which by any fire metric which are usually in 1 in 10-100 million miles, is much safer than any BEV according to their own estimates. What you need to worry about is that Teslas have the highest fire rate for any new car of their age. No new car catches fire at a rate higher than Teslas 🔥 I would advice you to keep it away from your garage. Teslas have burnt down so many houses, I know multiple houses which got burnt just in the bay area.

In California, at 50 miles per $36 kg thats 72 cents per mile. An EV costs 5. 14 times more expensive. And it's only 33% green hydrogen, double the emissions of an EV from California's somewhat dirty grid (even better if you have your own solar).

@brushlessmotoring

7 ай бұрын

Seen on the dash when Kyle gets in: 1.9 kg per 100km for a 6 kg tank is 315 km range, or 200 miles. At $36 / kg, thats a $216 fill-up and $1.08 per mile.

Production starts 2025

I am just waiting for BMW to release an X5 electric EV… hate the iX. Hydrogen is just not realistic for most of the country.

I think in regions/countries where oil has to be imported, and the grid is not capable of handling a mass transition to BEVs, Hydrogen shows promise as an alternative....even for POVs. Infrastructure was, and still is, needed for BEVs, as was the case for early ICE vehicles. So, I'm not all that concerned with developing the same for Hydrogen. I think the big question is how quickly can they perfect green Hydrogen production? There's a lot of people working on it, so I remain optimistic.

@brushlessmotoring

7 ай бұрын

So, if the grid can't handle BEVs, how will it handle making green hydrogen? It takes 3 to 4 times as much electricity to go the same distance using hydrogen as it does charging an EV: Mirai Hydrogen EV, 54 kWh per 100km, Model 3 Battery EV, 18 kWh per 100 km. If you use cryo storage of the hydrogen at any point (filling station, or vehicle) add 12 kWh per 100 km to the 54 kWh. If the grid can't handle charging EVs, how will it handle making green hydrogen? Excess renewables can be soaked up by battery EVs on standby, ready to charge when the power is cheap - this already happens in some places, no need to waste the curtailment via hydrogen, and no need to store and transport it afterwards.

@davidwill1320

7 ай бұрын

@@brushlessmotoring Considering all the time you put into writing your comment I feel compelled to at least acknowledge the effort. 🙂

@brushlessmotoring

7 ай бұрын

@@davidwill1320 the idea that the cost / effort of creating hydrogen infrastructure is equivalent to EV charging is madness, electrical generation and distribution already exists, adding sockets, especially charge in place AC sockets, is trivial. Hydrogen infrastructure, and this includes green manufacturing, as well as storage, distribution and delivery does not exist at scale. There are queues in CA and there are only a few thousand cars. It costs $1.5 million for a single nozzle, $2.5 million if you have an electrolyzer on site. Right now, $1.08 per mile for that X5. My biggest beef with projects like this, showing off a hydrogen vehicle - same with JCBs even worse hydrogen combustion stupidity - is that it makes it look like a done deal, an easy alternative to battery electrification - but it most definitely is not - and all the problems, costs, difficulties, and emission are at the filling end. So we just don’t show or talk about hydrogen filling - but hey - look at this shiny vehicle or digger using hydrogen, isn’t it amazing? And people fall for it and wait for hydrogen while still burning gasoline day to day. It’s a distract and delay tactic lifted straight from the tobacco lobby.

@davidwill1320

7 ай бұрын

@@brushlessmotoring AH! Conspiracy theory. I should have seen that coming.

@brushlessmotoring

7 ай бұрын

@@davidwill1320 it’s pretty open, not really a conspiracy - I really recommend Climate Town’s “Exxon Lobbyist Caught on Camera Going Full Cartoon Villain” - it’s a hilarious retelling of the Greenpeace ‘sting’ of the Oil and Gas lobbyist’s actions to capture politicians (far cheaper and more successful than capturing carbon) and dictate policy - what surprised me about that video was how cheap you can buy government officials for. But hey, if you want to dismiss facts about how unsuitable hydrogen is for transportation, let’s get some ad hominem personal attacks going!

Cool Beans! Lets hear about any possible technology for transportation.

@nc3826

7 ай бұрын

Thanks for the refreshingly open-minded comment.

@FuncleChuck

7 ай бұрын

This is old news. It’s not remotely possible in our lifetime unless some literally free hydrogen source is found.

California has a full state wide hydrogen fueling stations.

@brushlessmotoring

7 ай бұрын

And this X5 would cost $1.08 per mile to drive there. (33 miles per $36 kg).

Hydrogen is DOA. Move on. Toyota I guess will drag their feet and try to keep it alive until they go under.

What's the fucking point? There's been 100 hydrogen cars that are always pilots, never an actual thing.

@lesliecarter4295

7 ай бұрын

Toyota Mirai u 🤡

@FuncleChuck

7 ай бұрын

Correct, because it’s a garbage technology that’s just praying someday we find a source of infinite free hydrogen.

@lesliecarter4295

7 ай бұрын

@@FuncleChucklook up white hydrogen and why they are drilling for it 🧐

@brushlessmotoring

7 ай бұрын

@@lesliecarter4295 Ah the next great white whale hydrogen hype hope! Green hydrogen is too expensive and cannot scale, so let's go and try to dig up hydrogen like it's oil, even though we have never found it at scale on Earth. Oil and Gas use 120 million tons of hydrogen a year for refining, ammonia and fertilizer production, they make it out of steam reforming methane, and the hydrogen production industry emits 1.2 billion tons of CO2 per year, this industry has been running for a century - and yet they never thought to use this new abundant 'white' hydrogen despite being in the drilling business? That means, either a) there is none at scale, or b) it's too expensive to capture, store and transport. Which hydrogen car do you own and drive again? Sounds you like you are still driving a gasoline car, and believing all the anti EV claptrap while mainlining hydrogen hope headlines, fingers crossed, one of these boondoggle government hydrogen handout projects will actually deliver an affordable alternative to EVs, EVs you have been convinced to hate on by Rupert Murdoch and his oil and gas buddies. Rent a Tesla. Stop waiting for hydrogen. It isn't happening - the Mirai actually proves how unsuitable it is as a transportation solution, and this X5 dog and pony BMW / Toyota show re-enforces that. Look at the terrible efficiency! 200 mile range from 6kg of $36 per kg! $216 fillup for 200 miles - that's insane, and 'white' hydrogen is not going to solve this, because it's not a thing. "Headlines not hydrogen" - thats all this industry makes, distract and delay misinformation to feed on top of anti EV myths and misdirections, this is the Tobacco lobby playbook, sow fear, uncertainty and doubt about EVs to slow the transition from Oil and gas - hydrogen is a perfect distract and delay tool, but it is a terrible decarbonization tool.

Always fun to listen to Kyle go full nerd and the bmw guy has no idea what he's saying 😆

BMW and Toyota need to sign up for Tesla's NACS charging network - road trip problem solved - then they can stop wasting time and literal energy with this government boondoggle nonsense called hydrogen for vehicles.

Logically speaking, this is still an electric vehicle. Only you don't get to plug it in

@javierhillier4252

3 ай бұрын

And it’s not made from lithium which is quite rare and this uses hydrogen the most common element in the universe 😂

99 percent of all hydrogen comes as a bi-product from petrol manufacturing. And it could potentially be a hydrogen bomb I imagined if a crash occurs.

With the hydrogen fuel cell the battery useful life should last longer before it needs to be replaced compared to a typical EV battery.

@brushlessmotoring

7 ай бұрын

Not necessarily, this is a small buffer battery, 1/50th the size of an EV battery, so it will get cycled much more than an EV battery going the same distance, and to make up for the slow ramp up of the hydrogen fuel cell, the fact the small battery has to store all the regenerative braking, this battery is more like a hybrid battery - and if they are cycled hard, they only last 80,000 miles, much less than a half million mile EV battery. The tanks will need replacing and the Fuel Cell would have passed it hours of runtime rating at about the same time.

Yeah, im not about to sit my butt on any pressurize tank. 😅

@mariofornarelli1067

7 ай бұрын

Gasoline cars and BEVs's batteries can catch on fire and blow up. We have the technology to store these energies at safe levels

@spiritedgarage

7 ай бұрын

@mariofornarelli1067 yeah but atleast with car fires you have a better chance of getting away from the fire. But a pressurized tank exploding? Think Oceangate but in reverse. 😬

@mariofornarelli1067

7 ай бұрын

@@spiritedgarage batteries blow up and gasoline too lmfao and jet fuel

@mariofornarelli1067

7 ай бұрын

@@spiritedgarage also Toyota shot their hydrogen tank with a sniper and it didn't blow up, it just released the hydrogen

@minecraftchest1

7 ай бұрын

A smartly designed pressure container is designed to release pressure in a controlled manner in the case of a failure. Besides, this isn't really all that much different then having an air compressor or air tank near to where you work, and we have been doing that for years. And if you have a car with rubber tires, then you have been driving on a pressurized vesicle for a while.

It s great to have alternative energy source like hydrogen, fusion or sun. So we should encourage car companies to develop techs around those.

@akacicaa

7 ай бұрын

Hydrogen is not a source. It needs to be produced first typically from natural gas.

@veronicathecow

7 ай бұрын

"Today, close to 95 percent of hydrogen production is from fossil fuels like natural gas and coal. As a result, we emit 830 million tonnes of CO2 each year to produce 74 million tonnes of hydrogen." "The Global Hydrogen Refueling Stations Database consists of a detailed description of 469 active and 166 planned hydrogen refueling stations around the globe as of May, 2022.12 Sept 2022" "2020 marked the first year in the UK’s history that electricity came predominantly from renewable energy, with 43% of our power coming from a mix of wind, solar, bioenergy and hydroelectric sources." "With the hydrogen-powered electric car, the losses are significantly greater: 45 percent of the energy is already lost during the production of hydrogen through electrolysis. Of this remaining 55 percent of the original energy, another 55 percent is lost when hydrogen is converted into electricity in the vehicle. This means that the hydrogen-powered electric car only achieves an efficiency of between 25 to 35 percent, depending on the model."

@jonpetter8921

7 ай бұрын

@@akacicaaSo does fossil fuel. But you get my point

@jonpetter8921

7 ай бұрын

​@@veronicathecow It s possible to make production of hydrogen less fossil dependent and more sustainable. It s not like battery production is 0% carbon free right ? I can write infinite pages about the negative effect of mineral minning here from river/air pollution to under paid poor african, some under aged, that risque their life to extract those minerals without protection gears and then you still have to use fossil based refinery to turn those minerals into the final product.

Bigger SUV means no driveshaft hump

That's garbage. Hydrogen combustion engines will be the future when Electrolysis is done in cars in real-time. Simply dump water in a tank and drive. just search car that run on water.

Really don’t think hydrogen has a place in consumer everyday vehicles. It’s really a thing for industry you know lorries and boats and maybe even planes that kind of thing where you’re doing movements. I do think that normal cars should stick to battery electric it’s way more cost-efficient, the costa only going down on battery electric vehicles, it’s getting ever more easier to charge them and is getting better overtime. It’s slow but it is happening and I really think that’s where we should stick with consumer Cars and leave the hydrogen for the trucks at the boats and the planes.

@Mac10943

7 ай бұрын

Consumers don’t agree with you, and ultimately the consumers decide what gets sold. There will be a split between BEVs and FCEVs in the future, based on consumer preferences

I told of KZread “not interested” but I wanted to let you the creator know that your video is a waste of time. Many of your videos are good though. Your being fooled by BMW an Toyota shows your weakness.

@brushlessmotoring

7 ай бұрын

Kyle is upfront hydrogen isn't the future - he's just interested in it anyway. He does a reasonable job of keeping the BMW guy honest too, and corrects his anti EV misinformation about charging times. This is a much better video than the Mirai video. Completely agree that Toyota is well on it's way to being the next Kodak, who had a digital camera, but didn't want to disrupt their analog film sales, but that's okay, Canon had no such reservations about taking away their entire business. I take pictures of rusty defunct Kodak signs from all across the world, those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it.

Kyle, what are the comments going to be like when you get to try out a H2ICE or an ICE vehicle running on hydrogen based e-fuels. Both of which are entering the marketplace now. Bevangelist’s will be apoplectic ! 😂😂😂😂😂

@brushlessmotoring

7 ай бұрын

"Bevangelist" - that's cute - I like it, but you are missing the point - it's not about being a battery evangelist, it about what can decarbonize ground transportation emissions the fastest, and therefore the cheapest. It ain't hydrogen or e-fuels - both of those are nowhere near their "cheap, clean, abundant" promises, nor can they get anywhere close to them, because the use so much electricity to make, much cheaper to just put the electricity into a BEV. e-fuels don't even solve tailpipe, at least a fuel cell only emits water at point of use, even if it emits tons of CO2 and CH4 at the oil refinery where it was made. H2ICE emits NOx too. If you miss your 'brroooom broom' sounds, there is probably a CD you can buy. What the promise of hydrogen and e-fuels do achieve, is to give folks who are afraid of change a reason to keep burning gasoline while waiting for the BEV 'fad' to go away.

@lesliecarter4295

7 ай бұрын

@@brushlessmotoring spoken like a true BEVangelist preacher ! 😂

@brushlessmotoring

7 ай бұрын

​@@lesliecarter4295 which hydrogen car do you own or lease and drive daily then? How is that $36 per kg in CA working out, or the removal of all Shell hydrogen stations from the US and UK? If you hate EVs, cool, I just don't care, but let's not pretend e-fuels or hydrogen is actually going to happen at scale - they cannot, motor racing for green washing by Toyota or Porsche is one thing, your average bloke spending £1000 on an e-fual fill-up is something else. Sincerely, a BEVangelist preacher. Watch my EV videos and indoctrinate yourself further my child!

For North America BMW needs AWD FCEV!

Interesting video- I think they will build more of them. Toyota Crown FCEV is the next vehicle to come out. Reading the comments from people who are obviously clueless when it comes to the hydrogen economy is very amusing. There is a lot of interest in this vehicle 👍

@akacicaa

7 ай бұрын

There isn't really, though

@veronicathecow

7 ай бұрын

"Today, close to 95 percent of hydrogen production is from fossil fuels like natural gas and coal. As a result, we emit 830 million tonnes of CO2 each year to produce 74 million tonnes of hydrogen." "The Global Hydrogen Refueling Stations Database consists of a detailed description of 469 active and 166 planned hydrogen refueling stations around the globe as of May, 2022.12 Sept 2022" "2020 marked the first year in the UK’s history that electricity came predominantly from renewable energy, with 43% of our power coming from a mix of wind, solar, bioenergy and hydroelectric sources." "With the hydrogen-powered electric car, the losses are significantly greater: 45 percent of the energy is already lost during the production of hydrogen through electrolysis. Of this remaining 55 percent of the original energy, another 55 percent is lost when hydrogen is converted into electricity in the vehicle. This means that the hydrogen-powered electric car only achieves an efficiency of between 25 to 35 percent, depending on the model."

Hydrogen is the holy grail of all fuels. Toyota is the clear leader with the Mirai, now version 2. Plenty of room for improvement of course……..this BMW technology could well end up in the Ineos Grenadier too.

@akacicaa

7 ай бұрын

holy grail - in a sense that it belongs in the middle ages. BEV s are future

@CJ-rk5eg

7 ай бұрын

@@akacicaa hydrogen is an unlimited fuel source. Hydrogen technology uses fewer scarce minerals for smaller batteries. Hydrogen drive trains only emit water as a byproduct . It’s only a matter of time before the infrastructure through existing petrochemical company networks create hydrogen filling stations. And it’s only a matter of time before the technology becomes viable for automobiles to have sufficient power. That’s why Toyota has developed the technologies in order to leapfrog the BEV which they have not been very interested in producing.

@Aircam73

7 ай бұрын

@@CJ-rk5eg Hydrogen is certainly not unlimited but you know what is. Electricity, that can be made from something as simple as falling water or sunshine. While hydrogen may be the most common element in the universe it is locked deep inside covalent bonds that are hard to break and require large amounts of energy to extract the hydrogen. It makes more sense to take that energy and go 4 times the distance with it instead of putting it in a run away bomb.

@CJ-rk5eg

7 ай бұрын

@@Aircam73 all I can say is that if Toyota has invested so much into the technology of hydrogen, then there must be some real promise to it. After all Toyota must have considered so many financial, engineering and practical factors before diving into hydrogen tech. Same applies to BMW now.

@Aircam73

7 ай бұрын

@@CJ-rk5eg Companies make horrible investments all the time. Toyota is no different and the fact that their leadership and the country of Japan is pushing this doesn't make the fact that hydrogen fuel costs 4 times more than gasoline and 15 times more than EVs. Toyota is giving away their cars for hundreds of thousand of dollars of loss on each one. They are even giving them free fuel for years and yet most people understand how bad hydrogen is that over the entire decade they have been pushing hydrogen more EVs are made in 3 days than all of the hydrogen cars ever made. The public has spoken and anyone who goes against it will end up a kodak or blackberry.

Everyone and their dog has bought shares in Tesla. No wonder all the hydrogen hate in all the comments.

@FuncleChuck

7 ай бұрын

Tesla is an awful company and I hope they fail - but Tesla is more likely to bring world peace and send us all to space than hydrogen to ever go mainstream.

@minecraftchest1

7 ай бұрын

I haven't put any money into Tesla or Elon Musk in any way. Unless sales tax somehow funds NASA.

Absolutly no interest in this car.

@Kay_Emm_

7 ай бұрын

Okay

@minecraftchest1

7 ай бұрын

I have a lot of interest. Once the hydrogen infrastructure gets built out, I would rather drive this then a all battery EV.

@GautamPrabhakar

7 ай бұрын

@@minecraftchest1 Exactly! I drive a hydrogen car (Mirai) and it has worked amazingly well for me for the past 3 years. Fast refueling, 400 miles of range, no constant stopping to charge during road trips - its been a wonderful experience overall. Once the hydrogen infrastructure is built, it will be a no brainer to drive a hydrogen car over battery vehicles imho.

Hydrogen fuel cells make more sense than people think. Driving on green hydrogen already costs less than gasoline/diesel some places. And it is not far from fast DC charging in cost there. It will definitely drop in cost a lot when they scale up. Some have even predicted a cost of less than $1 per kg of hydrogen by 2030. That would make it on par with charging at home. Yes, it is less energy efficient than BEVs, but in the long run it will be more financially efficient: One wind turbine the US (very intermittent winds) will produce 5x less energy than one in South Chile (lots of constant winds all the time). So you will need 5x more wind turbines in the USA which negates the efficiency gains of BEVs. So why don't we just build a giant cable and intermediary battery system to the south of Chile? Because of giant costs. It is cheaper to export this cheap energy in chemical form than through electricity. Most likely the hydrogen will be shipped in the form of Ammonia (NH3) or Methanol (made with captured CO2). A big ship transporting hydrogen in this way from South Chile to the USA will use less than 5% of its payload as fuel. A cable would lose more energy than that.

@nc3826

7 ай бұрын

You are the only other commentator who is open-minded about FCEVs. But your dubious unsupported statements, makes me second-guess my own open-mindedness about FCEVs lol. What's up with the fixation on Southern Chile when British Columbia has a cheaper closer more constant alternative. Just have South America improve its grid and keep its own low cost electricity. 'green hydrogen already costs less than gasoline/diesel '? I like your imagination, it is just that reality gets in the way sometimes. enjoy.

@FuncleChuck

7 ай бұрын

Complete BS top to bottom. Not a single logically supported statement.

@akacicaa

7 ай бұрын

I can't understand these people, why do they write such obviously false pro-hydrogen arguments ?@@FuncleChuck

@veronicathecow

7 ай бұрын

"Today, close to 95 percent of hydrogen production is from fossil fuels like natural gas and coal. As a result, we emit 830 million tonnes of CO2 each year to produce 74 million tonnes of hydrogen." "The Global Hydrogen Refueling Stations Database consists of a detailed description of 469 active and 166 planned hydrogen refueling stations around the globe as of May, 2022.12 Sept 2022" "2020 marked the first year in the UK’s history that electricity came predominantly from renewable energy, with 43% of our power coming from a mix of wind, solar, bioenergy and hydroelectric sources." "With the hydrogen-powered electric car, the losses are significantly greater: 45 percent of the energy is already lost during the production of hydrogen through electrolysis. Of this remaining 55 percent of the original energy, another 55 percent is lost when hydrogen is converted into electricity in the vehicle. This means that the hydrogen-powered electric car only achieves an efficiency of between 25 to 35 percent, depending on the model."

@nc3826

7 ай бұрын

Most of the current hydrogen production is from fossil fuels, since it is utilized in the fossil fuel industry..... UK is the perfect market for producing hydrogen via clean electrolysis with cheap off-peak renewable clean electricity.... Which often goes to waste now.... Plus it's much more efficient to use it for fuel cells, than some of the crazy inefficient plans that the UK government has for hydrogen.... such as mixing it with natural gas and burn it.... And hydrogen fuel cell stacks are much more cost effective to recycle than battery cells.... it's amazing how advocates and extremists, ignore the trade-offs.... No technology is perfect....

There is no scientific way to achieve net zero emissions without extensive use of green hydrogen fuel cells, a verifiable scientific data fact. This includes cars, suv, pickup trucks, semi trucks, etc.