I love that you refrain from being overly hyped and stay sceptic 🙂

Thanks, all very interesting. As a Chemical engineer, I am very wary of widespread use of Hydrogen in a domestic environment, but I suppose if Petrol were invented today it would also be considered unwise to drive around with a tank full of low flash liquid in a vehicle with limited electrical and thermal protection.

@jhoughjr1

Жыл бұрын

Lol no. Petrol is not at 700 atmospheres.BIG difference in danger.

@jhoughjr1

Жыл бұрын

Also I have snuffed out cigarettes in a cup of gas.

@johnlarson111

Жыл бұрын

@@jhoughjr1 lolh gasoline at one atmosphere is highly flammable. remember the 72 pinto

@acmefixer1

Жыл бұрын

@@jhoughjr1 Yes, the gasoline/petrol is much more dangerous than hydrogen. Hydrogen is so light that it rapidly rises and the flames rise well above the point of release. Gasoline flows onto the ground, under everything and burns up everything as it burns.

@jhoughjr1

Жыл бұрын

@@johnlarson111 you might want to retake physics if you think the pinto fires are anything near what an equal energy volume of 700 ATM hydrogen will do. Kinda why incendiaries are not regulated like explosives are.

The oxidation of metals (Silicon) with water can actually be used as hydrogen "storage". Atm I'm also involved on similar research but with the focus on Iron. But indeed the goal should also be to have a process to turn the oxidated metal back into its pure form (called reduction). Very recent this paper ("Natural iron ores for large-scale thermochemical hydrogen and energy storage") was published where they closed that cycle when using iron.

@PoseidonDiver

Жыл бұрын

Howcom Iron? Does it have anything to do with finding an alternative to using CO to remove the oxygen from Iron during the production of steel?

@carlbrenninkmeijer8925

Жыл бұрын

God stored a lot of hydrogen in the oceans, it is wet, does not burn, can be stored and transported.

@markmuir7338

Жыл бұрын

This would be great for seasonal storage of solar power. 1MWh (3.6GJ) per house would do in mild climates like Southern California. It's fairly cheap to over-size the solar installation such that it will produce enough excess throughout the year to be able to last out the winter deficit. Lithium ion batteries are great for day/night cycle storage, but way too expensive for seasonal storage.

@alantupper4106

Жыл бұрын

I've been focusing on the magnesium oxidation route, specifically in the combustion realm. It's fascinating stuff, for a metal on fire at approximately 3000K.

@robertb6889

Жыл бұрын

So question about iron: it’s quite abundant which is an advantage, but isn’t it quite energy intensive to recover to base metal? Or are you looking at hydrate versus oxide cycling?

As with all potential new energy technology I find it endlessly fascinating. However the more "buzzwords" they use to describe it about how it can revolutionize things the more cynical I become about that particular product.

@docostler

Жыл бұрын

The old "Veracity is inversely proportional to hyperbole" formula.

@PiefacePete46

Жыл бұрын

@Dekoth-OGN : You know the saying: "If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is!". 🥴 😋

@tonywilson4713

Жыл бұрын

As an engineer I find that a very good way to describe it.

@jeb-zf4un

Жыл бұрын

What happens to hydrogen if it escapes as a gas. Is it possible that losses of hydrogen to space due to industrial processes could be problematic to the planet. Has anybody done a risk analysis.

@josidasilva5515

Жыл бұрын

Look into ionization with pwm 10kV, 3kHz on atomized water.

Your channel is always a great time spent watching for new potential develop. Thank you!

Sitting here, across the pond, enjoying my AM hot chocolate, while listening to the latest tech info is my way of relaxing the body and stimulating the mind in one step. Thanks for the excellent content.

@JustHaveaThink

Жыл бұрын

Wonderful! I'm delighted you enjoy the videos :-)

Yours is a GREAT channel. Good job on the researchers at Deaken.

@JustHaveaThink

Жыл бұрын

Thank you. I appreciate that!

@HeloisGevit

Жыл бұрын

@@JustHaveaThink I've watched several of your videos, and was surprised that I hadn't subscribed yet, so I went ahead and did that.

@feraudyh

Жыл бұрын

I think it's spelled Deakin.

Thanks for your down to earth and well explained topic about H2 extraction and storage.

I absolutely love just having a think watching your channel!

Just a few days ago in Germany they announced that they have successfully stored hydrogen in a paste form which is ten times as energy dense as lithium batteries.

@curryattack8985

5 ай бұрын

Yup. And then they woke up from their dream and went to the pub.

@rogerreiner1846

5 ай бұрын

Yup, probably mixed beer with toothpaste and came to a whole new solution.@@curryattack8985

@ArielYaar

3 ай бұрын

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powerpaste#:~:text=Powerpaste%20is%20a%20magnesium%2D%20and,%2DGesellschaft%20in%20Dresden%2C%20Germany.@@curryattack8985

@ThirtytwoJ

2 ай бұрын

There was a recent company talking about embedding hydrogen in a bimetallic tape and using laser to store and release it.. looked like a old music casette. Advantage being dry and low pressure. Personally i dont care as long as someone makes a working ironman suit with it or i can drop one in my el camino.

LOVE your work sir! THANK YOU! Just donated via PayPal

We already have an excellent method of storing, transporting, and using hydrogen -- it's called ammonia (NH3). Easy to store, transport, and use in a liquid form, all safely. Just ask any farmer who's been using it for many years. Plus, there already exists a vast network of ammonia pipelines. Even today an ordinary gasoline automobile engine can be made to run on ammonia with minor modifications.

Thank you for your fantastically informative videos - I really appreciate them!

I really enjoy this presentation. Thank you. I was involved with a group in San Diego area, we were working on a system that could generate hydrogen as a supplement in inject into the fuel rail on a CNG vehicle. The concept is very cool, but we ran out of funding to continue the efforts. But that would take care of the storage and shipping issues at the same time. I also enjoy the details of the "Ball Milling " process. Another company I know about uses a similar process to make a small particulate to add into the product, with very good insulation properties. Simple and cost friendly.

I really like how you handled that last product at the end

Nice job Dave with the explanations and animations in the beginning. Skepticism is very appropriate when it comes to the thought of ubiquitous hydrogen. However, if the right technology comes along, we should be open to trying it out. This applies to all unique energy solutions, reducing GHGs, and using different forms of energy.

Giddy from excitement, indeed. Nice turn of phrase, deftly applied, brother. Keep this up, you’ll be famous.

Another great episode. Thanks very much.

@JustHaveaThink

Жыл бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it

1.5C+ by 2030, 2C+ 2040-2050... Possible 4ft+ sea rise before 2040, so good luck with this. We really need it - and a lot more - quick!

Enjoyed your video. I completed my Masters Degree in the early 1980s and my project was the production of hydrogen via a PEM cell and storage in a metal hydride. At the time the Hydrogen Economy was a bit of a pipe dream and most people laughed it off. Here we are 40 years later and it is full on. Yes, storage is the key issue with H2. Good luck and well done !

@sindisiwecindy4378

25 күн бұрын

Hi Sir. I would like to engage with you further on this topic, as my current PhD Project is based on metal hydride storage.

So, as most of us know, the best way to store and transport hydrogen is to convert it to some other molecule, like methane or ammonia. Regarding the silicon solution from Epro, I am guessing that most silicon in the world is actually mined as silicon dioxide, and so, I am wondering 1) how energy intensive is it to produce pure silicon in the first place (removing the oxygen), and 2nd, how much energy is used to produce the super porous powder from the silicon. I am sure anyone in the solar cell industry should be able to tell you the cost of pure silcon blocks. However, I do like the fact that silicon dioxide is decidedly a non-toxic by-product.

The SI+ seems like a complicated non-rechargable battery. Might have a niche application, but I doubt that you can manufacture silicon cheap enough that this a practical mainstream application.

@hsavietto

Жыл бұрын

Do you know what else works as a non-rechargeable battery? Gasoline.

@spitfireresearchinc.7972

Жыл бұрын

It's worse than you think. How is silicon made from silicon dioxide? You guessed it- by reacting SiO2 with coal to make Si and carbon dioxide. Voila, a new method to use coal even LESS efficiently than ever before!

@richdobbs6595

Жыл бұрын

@@hsavietto Yeah, but gasoline is cheap both in energy cost and in capital. Unless you have a way to economically manufacture Si using interruptable power this is a non-starter

@richdobbs6595

Жыл бұрын

@@spitfireresearchinc.7972 Yeah, because not only do you have to use coal as the carbon source, but it requires electricity too! Winning!

@JasonOlshefsky

Жыл бұрын

I'm also curious if they can show what it takes to "close" this cycle. I'm not an expert, but I do know that SiO2 to Si alone is an energy-intensive process, so can the energy from "Si+ + H2O" even hit the energy level of SiO2 to Si-even ignoring conversion losses. My guess is "not a chance by a several orders of magnitude" but I'd be happy to be wrong about that.

I like the greater focus on context over hype in your reporting.

10:21 - Looking forward to this. NiTi bases metal hydrides are awesome as they are so safe you can't even make them go BOOM if you want to. They just freeze over. What's needed is economy of scale.

Thank you for the video! I think solar thermal with a highly insulated thermal battery utilizing a large seebeck / Peltier array for direct current electricity used in hydrogen and oxygen electrolysis of sea water stored in metal hydride is the answer we're all looking for. I'm currently prototyping this right now with a proprietary heat pipe, battery and Seebeck array. It would be nice to have financial support but I have no idea where to begin soliciting such funds. It's difficult paying everything out of pocket. I have no idea why large corporations have not produced a commercially available product equivalent years ago.

I can vaguely remember an episode of 'Tomorrow's World' in my youth, where raymond Baxter and James Burke regularly showcased new technology. One of their articles concentrated on hydrogen as a fuel and tackled the problem of storage. The answer was to use 'ordinary' looking cylinders, full of fine zinc powder. The hydrogen was then supposed to be readily absorbed onto the surface of the powder. 'Readily', as in it did not require high pressures or low temperatures. It was supposed to hold a vast amount of H2. Also, from a safety perspective, they demonstarted that if ripped open in an accident, the tanks would release the H2, but only enough to burn slowly, rather like a gas barbeque ! Can anyone else remember this ? There are vast respositories of old TV programmes on KZread and elsewhere, but so far I can't find it....

@rogerreiner1846

5 ай бұрын

I guess it depends on how old one is in order to compare youth. There is another version of this already being developed that uses completely recyclable, abundant, natural, lightweight, iron ore powder (such as biotite iron), and they appear to be doing exactly what you identify by using more expensive zinc. I'm not sure what causes this to be usable as it must be heated to around 200 degrees prior to releasing the hydrogen, but that then allows it to be slowly fed into the firing chamber as needed. Perhaps they use some kind of a hybrid engine that kicks in when the temp reaches the desired level?

GKN Hydrogen would definitely be worth a look, especially any info on what they are using, for those of us looking at long term H2 storage.

@falklumo

Жыл бұрын

I looked at their site. From what I glanced, they build containers comprised of 3 modules: Electrolyzer, Fuel Cell, and Metal Hydride H2 Storage at 40 bar. So you get a battery replacement at presumably lower cost and weight. The things weight between 5 ton and 30 ton though ...

@manoo422

Жыл бұрын

@@falklumo So not exactly aimed at home use! They are probably not going to release details of the storage medium and even if they did its probably not going to be easily available! So the whole thing is largely pointless.

@skierpage

Жыл бұрын

@@manoo422 The dream of every battery alternative is that the vast tank or cavern full of material X is so much cheaper than the number of batteries to store the same amount of energy that the cost of the equipment to get energy in and out of material X (which for a a rechargeable battery is simply a positive and negative terminal) and the round-trip efficiency (which is 95+% for a lithium-ion battery) becomes insignificant. The problem is proving it. "If we have a huge pile of silicon/find a big enough salt dome to store the hydrogen/insulate an enormous block of thermal storage/raise a heavy enough weight/build two huge tanks for a flow battery/... our process will be cheaper than installing megawatt•hours of batteries!" Sure, maybe.

Interesting video. Finding ways of storing hydrogen simply is evidently very useful. For either method, some order of magnitude numbers would be helpful. What energy density in the powder. How much SiO2 per kWh of energy released? The Hong Kong plan seemed to be jumping ahead to applications. I suspect that they need to focus on the process of transfoming hydrogen to and from powder form.

Thanks for another informative video!

There are many practical uses for silica, so it might be worth collecting for resale, but it could also be useful around the home for some purposes. If that's the only byproduct of the system's energy application I'd say it's a miracle product. But at this point I don't even know from the portion of the demo shown whether the reaction is endothermic or exothermic, or how much energy must be input to create the powder. If it is the same amount as comes out, it would be an efficient storage system for energy, although not an energy source.

For me the second of these is very interesting. Even if it is quite energy inefficient, it provides a way to capture the capability to create hydrogen, which provides (in effect) a way to capture that in a desert or offshore location, and transport it to where hydrogen is needed.

@deaninchina01

Жыл бұрын

If it’s energy inefficient then it’s a dead end. We need energy systems which generate net energy, not things like green hydrogen which are massive net energy consumers. Where is all the energy going to come from? It’s THE reason we use fossil fuels. It produces a vast net energy. And it also produces the thousands of chemical products which we use in everyday life. Plastics, medicine but to name two.

@ 8:55 : You don't "charge up" a fuel cell. You power it by supplying the fuel it was built for. Secondly, I did some calculations on the amount of Si+ needed: for every kilogram of hydrogen, you'd need roughly 7 kg of silicon and 9 kg of water, leaving behind 15 kg of SiO2. Edit: I did some quick calculation in my head at first, which was off by factor 10. Sorry, shit happens. Let's say you'd want to have 3 kg of hydrogen available in a fuel cell EV. Enough for 333 km or 207 mile range. That would mean lugging around 16*3 = 48 kg of silicon and water, which would turn into 45 kg of silicon dioxide (and 3 kg of hydrogen released), plus whatever it's stored in, easily 50 kg total. Then there's the problem of regenerating the silicon, which probably involves reaction between carbon and silicon dioxide, which defeats the whole purpose, since you'll be releasing huge amounts of carbon dioxide from that process. It could also be SiO2 + 4 H2 = SiH4 + 2 H2O, and then splitting SiH4 into silicon and hydrogen. Either way, proportionally, it looks like a huge mess, both chemically and energetically.

@OffGridSupplies

Жыл бұрын

At 40KWh/Kg for H2 your 450Kg of Silicon dioxide works out at about 2KWh/Kg ignoring fuel cell losses. This isn't hugely different to an internal combustion engine running on petrol. An energy density of about 2MWh/ton isn't terrible for static power generation considering how inert the silicon dioxide is although I'd be a tad careful with the feedstock silicon material. Certainly an interesting idea, I hope it works out.

@hendman4083

Жыл бұрын

A Tesla S battery pack comes in at around 750 Kg, so 480 Kg of silicon and water does not sound too bad.

@silvergreylion

Жыл бұрын

@@hendman4083 Was off by factor 10 for a quick calculation I did at first, so it's actually only 48 kg initially. Much more manageable for vehicles, but still a chemical and energetic mess.

@wallaceanature2788

Жыл бұрын

In any case, it probably more useful for roadside refill stations to have the Si+ installation, and from their fill up vehicle HFCs, rather than having hydrogen stored in pure form at the refill stations.

@SunnySzetoSz2000

Жыл бұрын

I think plane is the only good use on hydrogen

Thank you for the explaination. 🇨🇦

Thank you find your vids very informative

Always good when I get my “Sunday Morning Fix” on a Monday. ..

It's hard to believe that with all the energy used in each step, a form of hydrogen ready for use won't cost too much compared with, say, batteries.

Very interesting, hope they come to fruition soon.

I like the idea of the super-porous silicon... but like you, I wonder about the electrical input required vs the potential output.

@magnetospin

Жыл бұрын

Yea, I wonder about that. It's basically a hydrogen extraction technology. In general, you need sufficient energy to break the chemical bonds in order to release the hydrogen in water, and that's always a negative energy process. The energy has to come from somewhere.

@jhoughjr1

Жыл бұрын

Not to mention all that wieght nd space compares to how much hydrogen it actually can hold

@TheCountess666

Жыл бұрын

@@magnetospin Hydrogen is always thought of as a energy storage medium, not a energy source. I like the idea of using that as a long term storage emergency power source for example. as long as you can keep it dry it should be able to sit on a shelf forever until you need it. For that use case not even the round trip efficiency is all that important.

@jims6498

Жыл бұрын

@@TheCountess666 round trip efficiency as you put it has us wearing blinders to how cheap heat is when mined from below at scale 'inefficiently'. We are funding concentrating solar reactor for hydrogen liberation.... That introduces a fixed cost... 60% of which is in the 'mirros' so mining deep heat is obviously much cheaper since mirrors are expensive but a minority of cost of concentrating sunlight!!! Or so that seems to be the case with my seat having trusts pants or whatever.

Remember for these processes they provide different qualities of heat that can be used for other processes and district heating. Longannet coal fired power station sat opposite the BP/Ineos refinery for 40 years and they never used the heat from the power station to power petrochemical processes such as fractional distillation that would have saved a lot of money and fuel and increased the efficiency of Longannet to 80% or 90%.

@DrakeN-ow1im

Жыл бұрын

Heresy!! Competion, not cooperation, is the religion of the corporate world.

0:05 it's ok you give us every hydrogen innovation that's worth something and we (or at least I) will listen.

i truly believe history will look favorable upon this channel. The content is amazing in quality, and the soothing delivery offers solace to the mindboggling challenges we face with climate change. Thank you!

Lots of things react with water to release hydrogen. The trick is making them cheaply and cleanly. Presumably the Si+ people have some energy intensive processes starting with SiO2.....

The Si method is a chemical reaction, not a storage technique. There are many materials that will react with water to release hydrogen, so this is hardly new. It's main advantage is that the waste product is harmless, and can be thrown in the trash. While it is a relatively safe way of generating hydrogen, it is hardly green, as it will take a lot of energy to make, and can only be used once.

Nice! TY!

Really interesting, thanks!'👏

I think I'd rate myself as skeptical but curious about both of these methods. Futher research is definitely called for.

I remember several years ago, a Danish company developed a tablet for storing hydrogen in, but I believe they ended up focusing on removing some polutant from diesel motors instead, as presumably the market for using these tablets to provide hydrogen for electricity production in fuel cells at that time wasn't there. I can't remember though what the company was called, only that they evolved from the DTU in Lyngby, Denmark.

@johndododoe1411

Жыл бұрын

I think they became Aminex/Adamine, a system for storing the chemicals that VW omitted in their fake "clean diesel" products. I also notice that the small Danish network of Hydrogen fuel stations seems to be dismantled. At least the station in Gladsaxe is gone.

@rogerphelps9939

9 ай бұрын

It was a scam.

I think it was in the 1990's when a Canadian professor said he was working on a "Hydrogen Log" that would be bought at 'gas stations' to power either a fuel-cell OR flex-fuel ICE vehicle.

@skierpage

Жыл бұрын

I saw a demonstration of a hydrogen fuel cell car around 1998 powered by golf-ball sized nitrides that released hydrogen. Then, as now, it wasn't clear how much energy it took to remanufacture the magic nitride containing hydrogen.

@rogerphelps9939

9 ай бұрын

The suggestion that it would power an ICE engine with efficiency only a third of that of a fuel cell rather casts doubt on the whole enterprise.

great content thanks

thank you love you shows

sonds to good to be true the second company but it is necessary to take in acound the cost of this special Si or the cost of a circular economy. Great video!

Very interesting. Good video.

Subject was interesting. Beach sand can be put out in the backyard. Especially if you have kids. I have heard sand is becoming scarce though? Maybe this can use the old sand from the Sahar. I love your presentations skills. I watch everything I can find with you presentations.

The boron nitride method does reduce the pressure and volume of hydrogen, but increases the weight and cost. The porous silicon thing is another method of producing hydrogen - a rather expensive method, considering the energy cost of producing relatively pure silicon.

After having read another article about how there is a coming shortage of sand for creating glass, it seems the SiO2 resultant from the Si+ process could be a part of that cycle as well as reprocessed into more Si+. As you say, though, it does sound too good to be true!

@GilesBathgate

Жыл бұрын

The shortage is of a particular type of sand needed for building or glass making. The worlds deserts are full of silica sand.

@DreadX10

Жыл бұрын

@@GilesBathgate I've heard that the ocean floor also contains some sand. And with a rising sea-level ..... ;-)

@GilesBathgate

Жыл бұрын

@@DreadX10 That will be because the earths crust is 27.7% Si, with 60.6% of that being SiO₂...... 😂 en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth%27s_crust

@rogerreiner1846

5 ай бұрын

We are already living in a glass world so why not?

Thank you sir!

@JustHaveaThink

Жыл бұрын

You are welcome!

Thank you for another fantastic video! You explain these things so well it's almost like learning subliminally. Hydrogen powder... Or rather, boron nitride powder that captures hydrogen inside its molecular structure. It sounds like an example of the lateral thinking Dr. de Bono liked to teach: a chemical substance stored inside another chemical, but by the use of geometry instead of chemistry. As a concept it's pretty neat. And most importantly it sounds like you can store a decent amount of hydrogen in it. Still couldn't use it for hydrogen powered planes because it's too bulky, but maybe it could fuel other kinds of vehicles? I don't know. You'd have to radically rethink engine technology for something like this. As a means of storing electrical energy it might work quite well. I'm trying to imagine a home boiler or furnace powered this way, and it be quite different, not a retrofit of existing natural gas technology. You'd have to deliver the powder to the house as needed, then take away the spent boron nitride for recharging. The EAT proposal sounds rather amazing. The only inputs are carefully engineered silicon particles and water! Right away you can see it has the advantage of being almost infinitely storable. All you need to do is keep a supply of inert silicon powder next to your backup generator or whatever, then when it's needed pour the powder in there along with some water. It'll never go bad. And unlike the other powder you don't have to heat this one to several hundred degrees, which should simplify the design of the machinery that uses it and lower the cost of operation. Having leftover sand would be a problem if it's powering something that's in continuous use, but if it's just intended for backup power that wouldn't be so bad. Of course this assumes the silicon can be produced economically and you don't need mountains of the stuff to get a useful amount of electricity. Time will tell.

@skierpage

Жыл бұрын

Scrap the home furnace or boiler, forget about the inefficient hydrogen detour, and instead send electrons to the house to run a heat pump that's far more efficient.

That is what the world needs: all natural, organic, cruelty free hydrogen! Keep thinking! Love your videos.😉

@niclaskarlin

Жыл бұрын

Remember 'free range'!

Use the silica for heat storage tanks.

Looking at the comments I think I should start a dedicated channel on hydrogen. This is one of the most amazing topics with endless stream of inventions.

@JustHaveaThink

Жыл бұрын

Go for it!

@eugen-m

Жыл бұрын

Metallic hydrogen maybe ? 🤔🤔🤔

Seeing so much research into new energy sources and the varied applications made me realize that we're seeing an "Energy Revolution" much akin to what was experienced back in the late 19th century.

@rogerreiner1846

5 ай бұрын

Just another segment of the overall tech revolution which includes AI, etc. (Some call it "industrial", but I call it "tech".)

I own an EV. I do not see that Hydrogen is viable until these issues are worked out. Right now the only way that hydrogen is produced is by using fossil fuels. I hope that they do solve these issues. Great video!

When talking about super porous material, can the mesoporous magnesium carbonate “upsalite” be used in any way to produce hydrogen?

Two years ago I bought a grand piano from a Professor near Stuttgart, he told me that they were developing a kind of gel or solid state compound that is gel like that could store hydrogen easily and safe. And it could be release very easy. He mentioned that is is very promising and will be a solution for the present hydrogen problem of hydrogen storage and " production" . Maybe it has something to do with it.

@Techmagus76

Жыл бұрын

Difficult as gel is the standard ending of every second sentence in the area around Stuttgart. " Mir ham da scho wasch geiles am Start, gel."

@christophmartin5381

Жыл бұрын

@@Techmagus76 😁 Well he was not natively from Stuttgart, so I guess he knows what he was doing. But if it was gel or a kind of solid state gel like material...? I am not a physician , it was a bit to advanced for me 😬😂

@guesswho6038

Жыл бұрын

@@christophmartin5381 You probably mean this thing: kzread.info/dash/bejne/gWqDztGclqnZn84.html

@christophmartin5381

Жыл бұрын

@@guesswho6038 Yes maybe. Was just interesting what he told me. We had a discussion about energy density of batteries etc. , He told me that for cars batteries will be the tech of the future but hydrogen will be needed in many areas of the industry...

Love these videos

Thank you

How much energy and resource is required to produce the Boron Nitrite powder?

A small amount of very fine Si02 is a valuable addition to garden soils.

Storing hydrogen and other gasses inside metal is well known in CERN (European organization for particle research). For CERN it is a nuisance, because during winters shutdown where we repair equipment and the vacuum pipes are open and atmospheric air enters the vacuum pipes, the walls of the pipes absorb great amounts of gases from the air. Therefore we always heat the pipes to more than 200 degrees Celsius when we start up the machines (accelerators). This way we force the gasses out of the vacuum pipes. If we didn’t do the heating, the gasses would slowly outgas from the vacuum pipes walls, and we would never get the very high vacuum (I.e. very low pressure) that is needed for accelerating the particles.

A certain amount of care would be required for the powder after the hydrogen removal, since they are calling it a powder then inhalation could very likely bring on silicosis which is a potentially fatal lung disease common amongst certain kinds of miners. It would seem to be easy to convert the used powder back to reusable powder or to make a non-dangerous slag out of it, but something would need to be done.

@rogerreiner1846

5 ай бұрын

There would have to be fail-safe filtering solutions built into whatever system is eventually developed. You point out an excellent public concern, however. Silicosis is like a nasty permanent pneumonia, incurable as yet.

An excellent presentation as usual but I need more information. In particular, I would like to know the volumetric energy density when using boron nitride powder to store hydrogen.

@jims6498

Жыл бұрын

That's what is so amazing about hydrogen! THe liquid form is not the most compact, warmer storage 'trays' store more.

Just think that Australia has developed an ammonia Fuel cell which can make Ammonia and works in reverse to extract the Hydrogen. We have been transporting Ammonia safely for 100 years now.

Perhaps the 'used-up' silicon dioxide could be used as agrigate for concrete, or one of the myriad other uses for 'sand'. Or possibly a higher use again in microchips?

@rogerreiner1846

5 ай бұрын

Or they could use light-weight recyclable abundant natural biotite iron which is already being developed elsewhere.

I like this alternative for H2 generation, because storage liquefied H2 is problematic as it diffuses through almost everything and is energy intensive. Metal Hydrides can store H2 in solid state, but tend to be quite heavy, precluding it from aviation. Graphene sheets may be the best method of storage I've seen to date if we can figure out how to mass produce it. I am very skeptical about the wide spread use of H2, but I would like to see the net energy production numbers.

You should do a video about current status of supercapacitors, not heard much about them for a while

There’s actually a French startup called HySiLabs which is using a liquid form of Silicon (Si-H) as hydrogen carrier - getting close to industrial scale as it seems

Great video, Dave! Powered hydrogen, just add water, who would've thought

@JustHaveaThink

Жыл бұрын

Cheers Martin. Whether it'll work in the real world is an entirely different question though...

@jims6498

Жыл бұрын

@@JustHaveaThink I disagree as to powering small loads the camper buyer's are always looking for weighs of hauling hydrogen. Hybrid EUC's also need this type of constant wattage even though they are maximumally inefficient in micromobility land but also far more of a bargain then a horse and able to travel at car speeds! They use less energy then a car as they are so light. Cars are slippery but still so heavy!!! Micromobility needs a clean powertrain that has certain characteristics but the cost of the energy being what grid requires is not even close to important. And obviously EUC's will become more efficient over time as these high speeds become normal, clothing, angle of attack, yes obviously some sort of enclosure just for slipperyness is coming to euc's... i can't beleive how important a 'jacket' worn on high speed euc' will be to range!!! The turbulence helps peope lean forward of course but that is not critical. a fully enclosed EUC lol!!! Vertical slippery.. the air goes around wheel and body of rider only if prompted without turbulence.... this means that helmets etc. might already be extending range with the present forward leaning wedge not having rider above axle AT ALL. It needs to rise us up to provide space for air to flow under us clearly .... will the platforms we stand on rise with speed? The water can be reprocessed possibl on the vehicle it's not clear what's happening at all chemisty is not my thing yet. My point was not about EUC's but about tablets etc.. phablets on powder will rock even though zapbatt is promissing powerbank makers supply of scib boards and cells

@rogerreiner1846

5 ай бұрын

Cars etc. are heavy because that is the way they are engineered with today's available materials. In the future someone will develop a means to mass produce graphene which will totally change everything. For example back when aluminum was first discovered, it was more valuable than gold, but today it is abundant. Airplanes, trucks, cars, etc. will all be magnitudes of strength stronger and much lighter than today. Combine all that with hydrogen power and we will all be traveling in the air on digital highways, thus reducing the amount of actual roadwork, bridges, etc. I still like horses though and would not rule them out in a pinch. @@jims6498

That recycling of powdered SiO2 (silica) might go via dissolution with a strong base (e.g. sodium hydroxide), forming soluble sodium silicate (water glass) - this can be made into silica gel or other products.

Hi. With respect to EPRO. Where are they getting their Met Grade Si from? Used solar panels are not a very deep supply source. Try looking into HPQ Silicon (Montreal Canada). They (with Pyrogenesis) have built a PUREVAP reactor utilizing a no-GHG electric plasma source that will turn common quarts into 4N Si... in one step... and they are working on the Hydogen angle with researchers in France (Novacium). Cheers.

Very interesting, and without more information it's hard to evaluate. But one question that occurs to me is, how do either of these methods do anything to improve the relative low energy density of hydrogen in its gaseous form (once liberated from the powders), so that it could be efficient enough for normal everyday use in, say, a hydrogen-powered automobile?

@skierpage

Жыл бұрын

You run the hydrogen through a fuel cell (or if you're dumb or reusing an existing thermal plant you burn the hydrogen in a combustion engine or turbine). Yes, you need to produce enough hydrogen to generate the desired power (already hydrogen fool cell cars need a battery to deliver bursts of power and to recapture braking energy), but pour enough water on enough powder and it may be doable. You're talking about the rate of the reaction producing hydrogen, a different kind of efficiency than the round-trip energy efficiency of silicon → silicon oxide plus hydrogen → back to silicon.

Could you find out why we do not seem to be able to mimic the natural system of storing hydrogen by coupling it to CO2. And freeing it when energy is required? I only can find that this process is too slow for industrial use. But I do not see why, since this is the way of nature and it is abundantly available in all living systems, both animal and plants. Thanks for the effort!

Remember the movie Gremlins - whatever you do, DON'T feed them water!!!

@grindupBaker

Жыл бұрын

I vaguely recall it's don't feed them after midnight and whatever you do, DON'T put them in water (get them wet) !!! but excellent point regarding the thin probability of catastrophic unforeseen outcomes. Mister Think or GooglesTubes deleted my troll comment about a famous Silicon-based life form with acid blood perhaps developing if we replace carbon-based with Silicon-based on Earth.

Every time I read about something that seems to work on a lab bench scale automatically being ready for widespread use, I want to reread Clarke's famous short story Superiority. And sometimes I remember the old cold fusion daydream.

There are many different ways to store hydrogen. I think the important thing is to have a system that looks at everything and tries them all. Germany has their own pilot program with hydrogen, It might be interesting to learn from their mistakes

The demonstration rig is oddly similar to the cold fusion thing from back in the day.

As others have said about reduction for turning that resultant waste by product back, that Hong Kong powder is really cool, but it feels like they haven't figured out the full cycle yet, but ran out of time and need to ship, and they feel OK about it "cuz its sand" which will likely be inadequate for whatever cancer it sometimes causes I'm sure 🤷 But i think the overall idea is super clever! We already have hydrogen everywhere in water, so find ways to use that on site when needed. Nice.

@ericnordman5893

Жыл бұрын

Sand at a beach is a size you can easily see. This is much smaller and silica dust is very bad to breathe. Silica dust particles become trapped in lung tissue causing inflammation and scarring. The particles also reduce the lungs' ability to take in oxygen. This condition is called silicosis. Silicosis results in permanent lung damage and is a progressive, debilitating, and sometimes fatal disease.

Always enjoy your informative and thought provoking videos. Making hydrogen easier to store and transport would be an incredible achievement. So, probably a “dumb” question, but how would solid or powder hydrogen be used?

@skierpage

Жыл бұрын

There's no such thing as solid or powdered hydrogen. These *stores* of hydrogen release H2 (hydrogen gas) which can then be: burned to produce heat, inefficiently burned in an engine or turbine, run through a fuel cell to produce electricity, used to make ammonia and fertilizer,, or used in other chemical reactions (much of the 70M tons of hydrogen we use annually is used in fossil fuel refining which needs to die in a fire).

Yes, "Not giddy with excitement", ..again.

that second one reminded me of the old acetylene bicycle lamps that worked by a water drip

The total mass of remaining silicone dioxide does not appear excessive for the home scale. As it is a slurry, the waste could be “flushed” by attaching the reaction chamber to the sewer system to purge or flush when certain parameters are met. (Admittedly not ideal for septic systems. )

@grindupBaker

Жыл бұрын

As pointed out elsewhere the process likely starts & ends with silicone dioxide so none is either created or used up during the cycle.

@christopherbrackin8833

Жыл бұрын

I don’t see the relevance of the comment.

Si+ is like propane tanks for H2? At least they can use a similar model for distribution and collection with some kind of "flow" tank that works as a water powered battery

I love how the Si+ is safe as long as it doesn't get in contact with water. so it's mogwai-safe. I'm pretty sure practical engineering made a whole series on how water knows it's place and that's why steel infrastructure never corrodes.

Amusingly enough, that silicon powder might have been obtained through ball milling. From my point of view, the boron nitride option is better for regular use as it needs only one heavy thing to be carried around. The Si powder, together with the required amount of water and a fuel cell would make an awesome long-storage emergency power source.

@jenshobroh1294

Жыл бұрын

It could be used instead of carbon based fuel for peaks on the grid?

@jims6498

Жыл бұрын

seasonal storage is not gonna be hydogren it's stationary and i like inertieal very much. THe inertial include gravity systems that ramp up power delivery as mass falls capturing the acceleration as needed (slowing it down but allowing speed to bank instant power)

As a chemist I'm pretty sure that producing Si+ includes high temperatures. High porous materials of this kind are usually produced by thermal decomposition of other compounds. If that energy comes from a carbon-neutral source, it's fine - but storage, transport, and disposal of the SiO2 have to be considered, too. The SiO2 might be used to make concrete. However, the energy that is set free by the reaction of Si and water also should be used, as it may produce a lot of heat. And there's an expiry date on the Silicon, as it will react with traces of moisture. Besides that it may even be extremely flammable, if not explosive, due to the big surface of the powder. So it must be stored under inert gas. And Nitrogen won't do, as Silicon also reacts with Nitrogen over time. So probably Argon needs to be used, which will add to the cost. Not sure if all of that together still makes it a viable solution for Hydrogen production.

@jims6498

Жыл бұрын

'producing' heat is absurd when plenty of heat can be mined from mantle . . . that of course is cheaper, MUCH CHEAPER, at scale. how can fusion be cheaper then mantle heat?

@human_isomer

Жыл бұрын

@@jims6498 and how is your reply related to my comment in any way?

@jims6498

Жыл бұрын

​@@human_isomer ​ @Human Isomer The argon is likely not needed but could be recovered and would be cheap compared to value of powder. My comment depreciates capturing low grade heat because high grade heat in the future I fight for will be mantle cheap. THe cost of mining heat from mantle goes down the more you can use and therefore mine with consideration for it. Efficiency is a blinder and a tax that has us ignoring in past and over obsessing on now. When cost engineering has it helpful it is fine but heat is too cheap to not cost engineer ample waste of it into the solution that works best. Heat polution exisits as an efficiency measure for cooling water but we now run turbines less efficiently using air. THere is no concern about such heat being a problem to dump into atmosphere the concern is genuinely solar radiation be blocked from departure not man released heat. The public thinks man can heat planet directly instead of prventing planet from dumping solar heat as it has in past before our pollution that is nonstop. The foil looked like low vacuum but vacuum still packed. So very little Argon and we are being told containers not sample packs but densite comparable to oil if water is included which it should not be. WIthout cost targets I agree it might be unimportant. But costs based upon energy input DO NOT CONCERN ME. Caring about how much energy a soslution requires is to surrender to oil. INexhaustive mantle heat makes energy requiremtns not impediment to scale. I shared this fact with you because you expressed the opposite view! YOu did Oil's dirty deed of spreading myth. IT robbed us of mantle heat hijacking the offshore drilling for it into deep seal oil mining! They denied us fission, deny us mantle, and do so with aplomb, skilled hired hands and even hypnotised by efficiency propiganda 'volunteers.' We need heat to do work and mining it not fuels to generate it is how to disrupt industry and cool planet fastest. This way of moving energy any distance might be part of solution as well given howcheap water is most places and how little energy is needed in surface places without water that people need be. It is more important to get 'hydrogen equivalent for pennies a kg then it itself for a buck and far easier as welll to accomplish. All you haveh to do is use enough mantle heat! Say half of all hte heat we release carbon obtaining now- in first well we seriously tap. How could that cost more then a kg armortised equivalent for the heat? HOw could not be over half a cent a kwh? The mantle is not cheap to tap into but it is cheap to use. IT is also safe enough and certain enough we understand so much all we need to do is apply our knowledge, be willing to not create jobs cooling planet let people do other work so we can get that done sooner and fully. NObody wants a generation of high paying work at expense of future generations not just of people!! This filter we see solutions thru- they must be so taxed as doomed to fail, in requiring human labor to perform, is our presidents senility or his unchecked ignorance with Evil outcome the result. Cheaper heat saves the world and it requires no new science or discovery to procure just however many trillions to get hundreds of thousands of times as much heat as spending that on fusion or oil would cost. The planet is worth such a big project. Going to moon took absurd amount of our gnp. Cooling planet? That's enough heat to mine to justify spending far more then it could conceivably cost. I just typed a lot more but keyboard has a touchpad not turned off so shame on me. I told you how to do the math. And more. Mantle heat sufficient to cool our planet is too affordable to not know budget for. IT takes courage to share how little in trillions or whatever salvation can be definitely safely bought for. THe diligence is almost trivial. FOr most, people like you, it is genuinely trivial. For many, people like me, we struggle to have the few hours or hundreds of hours at most focused it would cost. For me this sits poorly as I lose another day trying to choose my battles but knowing the mot important short term one is neglected too long and indefensibly. So should i someday succeed ambitiously I will know price it came at and be an awe of myself. I pay and pay and pay so thanks for engagement I hope you respect my sacrifice in addressing your response. The ability to use chrome to quickly find comment and type is limited. It is hard to send this there are two vertical scrolls and finding the right one is almost impossible in dark mode as synced from desktop not to netbook so I'm in normal dispaly mode to see it yes the scroll bars are same dark lol really sad. Eventually I will be able to type late at night into youtube with darkmode on despite full browser or use netbook ap duh. but ap liklely lacks direct accesss to replying? ANyway This powder seems far too slow to liberate free hydrogen from water? I need specs on the speed but am not concerned if it needs hot water AT ALL. That's like worrying about cost of hot shower in Phillipenes lol. Scale is everything. Exponential drops in cost upon scaling up makes cooling planet a short term task. NOt forever aspiration 2050 etc. target nonsense for meaningless partial progress. Exponential drops in cost like 90% in a decade for hydrogen but based on todays science not chosen as difficult but chosen as certain. This is not a drill. Trapping heat on this planet like we now sustain doing at ridiculous loss of life unrelated to pollution but blunt force trauma alone, the 7 figures of people smashed from somany pounds of behicle per pound of passenger....it's a swithchj. Turn on mining mantle heat and we turn off capturing solar heat WALLA. But moving mantle heat energy to other side of planet from mantle heat mine might be done by this powder ok? I've said it more than once. Mining is the answer but not based on selling what you get at market price but using it as owner of mine duh. We must stop renting for our energy needs! The world owns the mantle and needs us to tap it for energy in a contract unprecedented a coop or otherwise working model that delivers cooler oceans and restored icebergs soon enough. not careers not aspriation solutions based on facts logic certitdue openness to truth ability to end oils billions in rent daily from a poor world of people needing that for other goods and planet cured therefor for much less. MUCH LESS so less than free planet cooling. GOt it??

that GreenEnergy tank car near the end makes me laugh. i live right beside where the "first spike" was laid down for Canada's railways and its currently in high use to this day. Today for instance there is a line of similar cars across the street from here, full of "1203" , according to OSHA, because they are safe" , i can only imagine what a railcar of hydrogen could do to my siding if something went wrong as 200 degrees doesn't actually seem that high considering the force that hydrogen is capable of. the Good news is, its raining with lightning and Thunder Storms on Greenland today, a relatively small side effect of "FIONA" wrecking all the Docks on the east Coast, ...the Good News is that Heating Costs in Greenland are predicted to be lower as all that ice melts, ....So, ...good news.

Very good analysis in this video, as always. I watched your previous videos on hydrogen and they were spot-on. Let me know if you want to analyze hydrogen from aluminium, as Bernie Zelvis was pointing out in the comments.

Always interesting to see developments in hydrogen energy storage. The hydrogen story seems very similar to the nuclear fusion story: It's about 20 years in the future and always will be.

@hitreset0291

Жыл бұрын

It is the fossil fuel industry's method for keeping us all brain dead towards sustainability.

Very interesting, hydrogen will have a large part to play and storing energy seems like the name of the game. My concern with hydrogen is that it can't be that clean as people assume. When you burn it in air you are left with water but also NOx are produced as air contains more than just oxygen

@vylbird8014

Жыл бұрын

Depends how you use it. If you burn it, yes. You can convert it directly into electricity with fuel cells too. Actually gives you a really good efficiency, but the power density isn't good - fuel cells are quite bulky. And they are finicky - like their rival the internal combustion engine, they do need some care if they are to last.

@deaninchina01

Жыл бұрын

Hydrogen will only be serious if we have some sort of primary energy generation which can supply the huge energy required to be lost during the process of making it. Modern civilisation needs an EROI of at least 8. Green hydrogen has an EROI of approx 2 if you use wind and 1.5 if you use solar. Green hydrogen is an energy sink.

@rogerreiner1846

5 ай бұрын

Well, the automotive industry developed catalytic converters to contain lots of bads coming from gasoline being burned, so I'm sure they will have to do the same no matter which way all this goes. What you identify is very important, but merely a fixable challenge rather than a game-changer.

Thanks

Thanks for the great video. The storage of hydrogen is indeed one of the most difficult parts of the wider adoption of hydrogen in daily usage. Apparently, none of the technology existing today is good enough -- mostly can only carry 3-5% of hydrogen by dry weight. Hopefully, we can get it done in the next 2-5 years -- the first lunar base might be set up in 10 years, and hydrogen is likely the only viable solution for energy storage for a lunar base.

@jackdbur

Жыл бұрын

You come to this conclusion of H2 being the only viable option how? No mini reactors &/or solar & batteries?