"I, Emperor Aurelian IX, claim this 97th world in the name of the Roman Galactic Empire"

@alexzero3736

Жыл бұрын

Emperor Aurelian IXM

@OrkosUA

Жыл бұрын

Reality: 4024335 civil war after death of yet another emperor in this season of the year only

@tacidian7573

Жыл бұрын

What's good, my favorite Ancient coin channel?

@palacehaunter5442

Жыл бұрын

Aureillean overrated. Gallienus far better true restorer orbitus.

@Yoruski

Жыл бұрын

​@Fluff he's kinda right and wrong. Although Gallienus held the empire together he didn't restore it, Aurelian did. But Aurelian is kinda overated. When people think of a good emperor during the crisis they only know of Aurelian. Gallienus and Claudius II are less well known

The fact that Romans completely overlooked the potential of steam power still hurts to think about, especially when they had the potential right within their hands.

@JM-mh1pp

Жыл бұрын

They did not, the difference between a toy steam engine (easy to build) and actually working steam engine (hard to build) is vast and mostly is not about the idea (steam engine basic principle is so simple that a child can think of it) but amount the quality of material required to handle astonishing amount of pressure. In fact in britain you could easily tell in which sheds people experimented with early steam engines, it was the places with large holes in the ground caused by boiler explosions... and steamed shattered pieces of the early inventor spread over the entire field.

@HypnoticChronic1

Жыл бұрын

@Lupercus Rex I find your statement a bit flawed and contradictory, by saying "I remember they had no USE for steam power." then following up with "but when slavery (large amounts of manual power) are meeting your needs" after which you say "there wasn't any incentive to mechanize beyond the waterwheels/windmills". If manual labor was indeed meeting their needs then why bother with mechanization in the form of waterwheels and windmills to begin with, clearly there was some things manual labor was not cut out for and thus required mechanization to compensate, ask yourself would it that far of a stretch of the imagination to say there was instances where that rudimentary mechanization was unable to compensate for? Surely I can think of two off the top of my head that would both apply to Romans back then as it applied to us in our recent history, namely in the form of arms production and mining. The arms production is pretty self explanatory so lets move onto mining, mines occasionally get flooded or miners penetrate the water table hence why the steam pump was invented in the first place, I have no doubt the Romans likely encountered a similar problem if they mined further down than surface level would steam power not be useful in that case hmm? Moreover that very same steam pump technology could be used for another purpose as well and something the Romans encountered and had devastating effects to them quite regularly... fires, a steam pump pushing out water at far greater volumes than a bucket brigade or a hand driven pump could ever hope to manage, would surely be beneficial to them in curtailing or even outright stopping fires from spreading to the point of what occurred in the Great Fire of Rome in 64 C.E. or would you still say they had no use for that either? Besides your statement as a whole is contradictory to human nature in general we have always looked for more expedient, efficient and less labor intensive ways to accomplish things, that is the very basis for invention to begin with going back all the way to when we first picked up flint and stone to make tools. So to my eyes saying the Romans had no use for something is a bit presumptuous don't you think?

@HypnoticChronic1

Жыл бұрын

@@JM-mh1pp Do not get me wrong sir, I am by no means saying that going from a spinning sphere atop a kettle to a working steam engine would be a easy or seamless endeavor and you are quite right in pointing out the dangers that came along with its invention I have no disagreements there. However, we do have to bear in mind that we ourselves are not all that far removed from the Romans its only been 570 years since the fall of the Eastern Empire and only 259 years between the fall of the East and the steam engines invention and as we know the Roman era spanning from the republic to the fall of the East far eclipses either of those two figures. Could you not hypothesize that had they began work developing the technology from the aeolipile in the 1st century C.E. that the Romans could not have overcome the metallurgical constraints and developed a working model for a steam engine before their fall? It is not as if we are speaking of a ignorant or technologically backwards people here whom had no forms of development throughout their history, I have little doubt that if effort had been put into its development we very well may have seen a quite different history play out, you may choose to disagree with me but I stand by my statement.

@MsAln1

Жыл бұрын

Kinda makes you think about the innovations we might have overlooked in our modern world as well...

@colinmcom14

Жыл бұрын

Actually while the Romans could have certainly built a Newcomen steam engine, it wouldn't have been useful since they didn't burn coal. Using wood would have been more expensive than paying to feed a slave or animal so even if they had one it wouldn't have actually saved any money so no incentive to use it.

I think the great irony lost on many is that the supposedly technologically stagnant medieval age, was actually in many ways technologically more advanced than the wetern Roman era. And let's not forget that many other civilizations never experienced a fall, and yet they never industrialized.

@edsoncarrillo7211

Жыл бұрын

The Romans had at one point running water and a sewage system for all of the homes in the city of Rome. They had aqueducts and fountains all throughout the city. We didn’t get anywhere near that level of technological advancement during the Medieval age

@sosig6445

Жыл бұрын

@@edsoncarrillo7211 Infrastructure and technology are not necessary the same. Rome had Infrastructure but lacked the population density and agricultural advances of later medieval kingdoms. Not to mention Medieval and later european metallurgy was waay ahead of roman metallurgy. And it's simply speaking the single most important component in the eqasion, You cannot build steam actually usefull steam engines without an advanced understanding of metals. in we could because after nearly 500 years of building ever more powerfull cannons europe had the best steel the world could offer. Roman materials were simply inferrior and incapable to be used in engines.

@ryannathaniel9296

Жыл бұрын

There were already some form of proto-industrialisation in Song China (along with the emergence of joint-stock companies and the first banknotes in the world) before the 12th century. The reason they failed to industrialize was due to a lack of a middle class in Song China (and thus the industry didn't have the market to sell their produce to other than to mostly the central government and the upper class); and the Song suffering territorial losses to the Jin dynasty and then eventually got conquered by the Mongols, who practically destroyed any base for an industrial revolution

@joecreek6038

6 ай бұрын

Many other civilizations weren’t the best

@SarimFaruque

6 ай бұрын

When it comes to small-scale technology like clocks or windmills, those things don't really decline. They either improve, stagnate, or get replaced by another method. It's mainly large-scale complex designs like aqueducts or sewage systems that can regress for some time. The Romans did better with the latter due to their stronger central government, military, and complex economy, while the Middle Ages and Early Modern Period did better with the former due to more competition and improvising with what they have.

According to my experience, people who like history also usually like space related subjects, i include myself

@loopernoodling

Жыл бұрын

Totally agree - I've got a few KZread accounts to try and train the 'recommend' algorithm, and this one is my History and Space/Science account! ;-) So I've got subscritions with Anton Petrov and Maiorianus, and Fraser Cain and History with Cy, for example.

@emil3f

Жыл бұрын

@@loopernoodling wow, thats so cool!

@carlosfilho3402

Жыл бұрын

The Tragic And Brutal History Of Roman Emperors,It Was Easier To Find The Worst Emperors That The Best.Power Corrupts ALL Emperors Who Succeeded The Expect Of Titus Were Bad Emperors.

@danesovic7585

Жыл бұрын

Me too. We got patrician taste :)

@emil3f

Жыл бұрын

@@danesovic7585 yes haha

7:30 - One problem with the steam engine is the fact in our timeline it took centuries of improving metalurgy to bring the industrial revolution with actually usable steam engine. The "friend of miners" had all kinds of issues caused by insufficient quality and attempts existed since the 16th century AD or so. Instead watermills and windmills were used, where serious power was required.

@adamfox9651

Жыл бұрын

Yes. They would have had to had solve the problem of exploding boilers first. Even in our modern industrial times, boiler explosions can occur. One came close to killing my grandfather years ago, but fortunately, he survived with only minor injuries.

@seanbissett-powell5916

Жыл бұрын

@@adamfox9651 "Slaves, go shovel coal into that firebox while I whip you from a safe distance !" There we are, problem solved ;)

@pikachuthegayatheist6215

Жыл бұрын

While I agree with you on the steam engine, this video has many different problems I think. One of the issues with this video is that society for the last 13,000 years has been very politically conservative, and society has only started really within the last 75 years to actually start wanting progression to actually happen the level that it is actually happening today, even though some say it started in the 14th century. And societally we are still conservative, compared to where we could be at, that means societal development is it probably 10 maybe 15 years more developed in the most online young person who knows everything that is going on today and is researching everything and is probably 75 years past your average 40 year old, as well as 150 years past your average Conservative.

@blitzkrieg2928

2 ай бұрын

@@pikachuthegayatheist6215 Cause conservatives have had dominance since the French Revolution right ? :P *TONGUE IN CHEEK* gimme a break xd

Remus: "How was your visit to the Oracle of Delphi, brother? Did you see the future of our newly created city?" Romulus: "Well, according to what the oracle told me, our city will expand, not only beyond the Seven Hills and the other tribes, but it will also occupy the entire peninsula and even vast territories that we hardly know about now. Each new enemy that challenges the city will be more terrible and foreign than the previous one, but in the end they will all bite the dust. Then, a kind of government called "Imperi" or something like that will be formed, and will unify all the different cultures and religions of the world, although ours will be the most important. Also, the vast majority of the city's rulers will be pretty phony types: one who sleeps with his three sisters and makes his horse second in command, a fat man who believes himself an artist and burns the whole city down just to find inspiration, one who believes he is Hercules, another who literally wants to become a woman, a boy who only thinks about feeding pigeons, etc. Logically, the Empire will gradually decline, to the point of being divided into two and replacing the gods who have watched over us for countless generations by an executed carpenter from the farthest corner of the world that doesn't even exist yet. Finally, the part of the Empire in which our city is located will fall, not to mention that the last ruler will have the same name as me" Remus: "..." Romulus: "..." Remus: "...We definitely should have just raised pigs for the rest of our lifes" Romulus: "Yep"

@pallen1065

Жыл бұрын

If you can find it, read Th. Burnett Swann's 'Where Is the Bird of Fire?' (ACE paperback) ..

@victordegrande1628

Жыл бұрын

You sir, win the internet today.

@KraNisOG

Жыл бұрын

You had me until you mentioned Nero burning Rome. I know it's a joke, but c'mon man.

@OptimusMaximusNero

Жыл бұрын

​@@KraNisOG Yeah, it's just a joke. What's the problem with that? Also, the other emperors' extravagancies may be fake as well

@rb3872

Жыл бұрын

Nero didn't burn the city. It is well established that he wasn't even in Rome when the city was on fire. Nero isn't as bad a person as history made him look like. The problem with that is that repeating false history, even if only as a joke, this false history will stick into the minds of people. Now it is only about a long perished Empire's history, but what if we would do that with much more relevant and recent happenings?

Civil wars were always a feature of the Roman system. It is to hard to know how they could be avoided. Augustus created a sort of fudge ultimately based on his incontestable military power, but after Nero it was open to whoever could take and hold power. 'Uneasy lies the head that wears a crown' was applicable.

@Maiorianus_Sebastian

Жыл бұрын

Yes, that was really the biggest systemic problem of the Roman Empire, the extreme propensity for solving conflicts by military force, thus creating these constant civil wars.

@flyingisaac2186

Жыл бұрын

@@Maiorianus_Sebastian even moving from Augustus to Tiberius where a great politician was replaced as a very capable soldier (almost the reverse of Augustus) there were a number of mutinies, although specifically over pay and conditions, plus after Agrippa Postumus was killed on Augustus' say so, there were various pretenders to that name, like the false Neros a reign later. And this replaced a late Republic were most major politicians were also de facto independent warlords (or tried to be like Crassus).

@sosig6445

Жыл бұрын

@@flyingisaac2186 The Late republic was also civil war prone the point of divergence to make rome "stable" would have to be made somewhere near the punic wars...

@martinromerostrack9138

Жыл бұрын

​@@Maiorianus_Sebastianhey man, I'm actually righting a book with that "Rome did not fell" kind of history, but I'm trying to give it a realistic look, with little details that help comprehending why it didn't fell, whilst having an interesting and complex plot

@Burgermeister1836

Жыл бұрын

The Empire's problems are rooted in the Republic, which it was a legal continuation of, and in theory remained until at least the Tetrarchy. Rome never had a legally established monarchical succession system because it was never a monarchy in the same way as the Germanic-descended kingdoms of the West (the longest-lived of those, France, lasting from 486-1791, almost as long as the Empire itself!). This remained the case even in the Byzantine era, which led to numerous civil wars and usurpations even in the Empire's most monarchical periods. The Republic itself was doomed by virtue of being a government designed for a city-state being forced to rule a continent-sized empire, and the Principate was just an ad-hoc solution that worked just well enough to become permanent.

The fifth timeline: The Western Roman Empire did not abandon Britain and its rump state founded by Syagrius relocated to the British Isles. I came up with this timeline because the Industrial Revolution happened in Britain and Britain has tons of coal mines. With the steam engine developed from the invention of Heron of Alexandria and a lot of coals, steam-powered warships and steam-powered armored trains become possible. With such vehicles, this Roman rump state can expanded out, conquering all of British Isles, defeat the Frankish Kingdom and finally retake the Italian peninsula. Sure, this will take a lot of time. But eventually, they will be able to do it. So in this timeline, there are most likely just Germanic city-states because there are no Carolingian Empire and Holy Roman Empire of Germany while the Muslim conquests of the Maghreb and Hispania remained largely the same because the Western Romans perceived them as no threats as long as they have the buffer zones against them such as the Eastern Roman Empire and the Iberian kingdoms formed out from the fall of the Kingdom of the Visigoths. Of course, some skirmishes can happened at Sicily if the island is divided between the Western Romans and the Muslim Arabs. But I think that's just it for the Western Romans. Also, I do not think there will be Kingdom of Hungary in this timeline because nothing happened to the Avars since the Western Romans were purely focused on the reconquest of Gaul and the Italian peninsula and they were happy to let the Germanic city-states to serve as the buffer zones between themselves and the nomads. And centuries later, the Vikings arrived on the scene and their quests for loots and plunders will be met with the opposition that are the steam-powered Western Roman Navy equipped with the flamethrowing technology and the Greek fire adopted from the ones in Constantinople. So the Vikings can only waited until the time is right when another Roman Civil War broke out and decided to play their part in it. So the Danelaw is not entirely out of possibility. As for the crusades, I doubted it will happened because the Eastern Roman Emperor can simply dispatched envoys to the Western Roman Emperor with a plea for help in the quest to defend the borders from the invading Seljuk Turks and also might be able to use this as an opportunity to retake Egypt and Syria back under the Romans' rule if the religious zeal got involved because if anything, they know they needed to control Egypt and Syria if they wanted to secure Jeursalem for themselves. Some centuries and some more civil wars later, the Mongols arrived. And this is where everything is possible. The Mongols are equipped with plenty of weapons that used gunpowder and mangonel that allowed them to easily besiege castles and stone fortresses while the Romans possessed the steam-powered navy. On land, the Mongols have the advantage. But by the sea, the Romans dominated the battlefields. And if the Romans adopted gunpowder and started manufacturing some sort of proto-cannonballs, then the only chance the Mongols have is to wait for another Roman Civil War to come in order to be able to exploit it. After this, I have no idea what to predict anymore except that the Reconquista will be happening quitely under the noses of the Romans. And when it is finished, it will be purely depending on who Christopher Columbus will seek sponsorship from between the recently reunified Hispania and the Roman Senate to fund his expedition to find the other route to Asia. As for why Columbus still wanted to find the other route to Asia. The answer is simple, the Roman-Persian Wars that kept happening made the Silk Road unsafe sometimes. So I doubted the Eastern Roman-Safavid War will be any different from the other previous Roman-Persian Wars. And to make the matter worse, the Western Roman might be engaging in the campaign to reclaim the rest of North Africa from Morocco and the other local Muslim powers as well. So yeah, a new trade route might be needed since wars are bad for businesses as we all know. So what do you think?

@alessadroc

Жыл бұрын

This is a creative scenario. But in all honesty I think that the Saxons and Angles would have thwarted Syagrius before anything noteworthy would have happened. In our timeline Syagrius was only able to mount a resistance for around 10 years after Rome fell. Even if they eventually conquer all of Britain (which is strange considering they barely even survived after the fall of Rome), what's to say that a war with the Franks won't just end up in a stalemate? And is there even any evidence to support that Late Roman leaders knew about Heron of Alexandria's 'engine' ?

@lerneanlion

Жыл бұрын

@@alessadroc The point here is that the Western Romans did not abandon Britain and remained in control of what is today's England. With Syagrius' domain plus Roman Britain. He will have more grounds to search for recruits and if his holdout on the mainland fell to the Franks like in our timeline, he, his family and his followers can always escaped to another holdout in Britain. And Britain possessed large deposits of coals. And while this is purely depending on luck, if some Roman scholars who heard of Heron's inventions happened to be there, then steam-powered warships and armored trains could still be possible. If not, then the Western Romans will have to remain on the defensive against the Anglo-Saxon migration and the arrival of the Vikings later on.

@ForibaloFacts

Жыл бұрын

cool

Two science fiction books you should read, because they have the Roman Empire in them: Coalescent and Proxima, both by Stephen Baxter.

@complexemotions673

Жыл бұрын

Got anymore books?

@arnorrian1

Жыл бұрын

@@complexemotions673 What kind of books?

You can look at the book "the great divergence" about why China didn't industrialize. London was already burning coal due to a lack of wood before using steam engines. Coal was readily available as it could it be gathered at ground level in some places. The region around Shanghai was roughly as productive as England in the late 18th century. But the technical expertise to make steam engine and more importantly the natural resources were not there. They existed in the Qing empire but were too far away. So if the Roman industrialised it would probably be in a region that has a lot of readily available coal, which Rome has not as far as I know. Remember that steam engine coal use started as pumps suing the coal that was too bad to be transported to the city for heating. It was therefore used to dry the mines. It created a positive incentive to improve the machine. A great subject to explore though.

@sosig6445

Жыл бұрын

not to mention Britain had 1500 years of ever improving metallurgy compared to Rome. You know it's also really important, Rome can't make boilers and pistons with shitty steel. also several agricultural advancements took place in the medieval era securing food production and making denser populations, wich in turn made industrialization much easier. the entire Roman empire had a population of 60 million, Today Italy alone has 55 million. Urbanised societies industrialise and while Rome was more urbanised than the feudal kingdoms later it was still laughable compared to 1700's Britain.

@spiritualanarchist8162

7 ай бұрын

The need for a steam engine to get more coal out of the ground, and later move that coal around before even having a coal engine is one of those quirks that changed history as we know it. It was a very local & specific problem solved by combining several coincidental inventions. Nobody intended to build something that would change the world. Who knows if we ever would have invented the steam engine without this specific solution to a specific 18th century English problem

The video assumes that the Middle Ages were just stagnation and not progress. Which isn't true. Just a narrative from the Renaissance. At that time people wanted to distance themselves from the Middle Ages and began to glorify antiquity. China, Eastern Europe, and India persisted under similar conditions, and none of these countries advanced a technological explosion. In the end, it was constant war and scarcity of resources that catapulted us ahead. Out of a Europe that would never have existed if Western Rome had not perished. I think the odds that we're still in the Middle Ages are higher than colonizing Mars. But in the end it's just fan fiction and somehow it's cute when someone is so passionate about the topic.

Some say that competition among small republics/kingdoms (Venice,Milan,Genoa,Portugal ect.) is what stimulated innovation in metal working and shipbuilding. So maybe unified Rome would be bad for innovation?

@samwisegamgee8318

Жыл бұрын

I definitely agree with this. I mean we had Roman emperors at the height of Roman power killing innovators to keep the status quo and not make jobs obsolete. I think Tiberius was one of those emperors that ordered the death of a man who came up with a faster way of either building or manufacturing a very common product that would have led to many lost jobs

@mishkosimonovski23

Жыл бұрын

@@samwisegamgee8318 Also Greek Polis did quite well on their own, competing and being creative.

I honestly think that if a Western Roman Empire survived, it would just be technologically on par with the ERE. Which is still progress, but so was the Medieval Age. The big changes are in culture (we might see one uniform culture across Italy, Aquitaine, Catalonia, etc.) and statecraft (a more centralized government, but still latifundia landowners instead of feudal lords have a lot of influence).

The watermill complex at 8:15 is interesting. If some of those wheels would have been used to power lathes (the romans had foot-powered versions), that alone could have triggered an industrial revolution. From a purely mechanical viewpoint this is how the industrial revolution in our timeline started. A lathe can be used to make a slightly more precise lathe, which can then be used to make a still more precise lathe, etc. However, none of this by itself is going to trigger an industrial revolution. The Chinese had all the tools for an industrial revolution for about a thousand years, but Confucian inspired economic policies prevented the formation of the type of financial system that led to industrialization in the west.

I would like to think that the temple of Vulcan would turn into the Adeptus Mechanicus from Warhammer 40k(look them up if you are not familiar with them)

@ahmedshaharyarejaz9886

Жыл бұрын

The Emperor Protects Brother Aleksandr! By the Omnissiah!

Mad props to you for crediting the artists, those are some fantastic works of art depicting Roman cyber/steampunk cities

Yes! I needed this video for so long. Thank you ❤

The problem with these alternative timelines is, you need realistic reasons for things to happen differently. Rome would only have industrialized if economic factors incentivized people to develop early steam-powered toys into something more. If the incentives that existed in 18th century Britain - high demand for coal and the efficiency of using coal-powered pumps to remove water from coal mines - existed in Rome, then perhaps Rome would have industrialized. (Roman metalworking wasn't good enough but if incentives changed, Rome could have improved its metalworking). The problem is, the demand for coal didn't exist in Rome.

@luis.m.yrisson

Жыл бұрын

Lack of manpower after the plague could have been a catalyst, just like the black plague became a catalyst for the end of feudalism in our timeline. Scarcity of manpower makes it go up in price, and therefore making machines more attractive.

Looking at China, India and the Turco/Arabic World trajectory, I would guess the Roman Empire would just have stagnated into slumber. It was the intense competition between several cultures in Europe that pushed new technologies. It is sad to say, but without war there is no progress: without WWII we would never exploited the aircraft, and without WWII we would never got to the moon. BTW, Heron did not see the potential of water steam and Egyptians didn't saw the potential for a natural condenser and batteries, but that was because it took Physics to get to the implication of "Energy". Volta was able to measure "charge" and flow of electricity, Stephenson worked on thermodynamics and modern industry built machines on the theory of De Saint Venant. All that The Roman world knew were how wheels and pulling could make a job easier but without any understanding of the theory behind that. It took the Arabs to start building Algebra, Galileo to build the basis for modern physics and European Alchemists to create Chemistry, none of which existed outside Europe even at the times of the industrial revolution.

@ojpickle5923

8 ай бұрын

War doesn't breed progress, competition does. Without ww2 we would have gotten an alternate cold war that would have easily landed us on the moon. The plague killed so many people that business needed to get creative to compete. Which ultimately made European society innovate. If the Romans survived then they would still face challenges by other European and non European groups. I could definitely see a stable Rome falling to stagnation however it would likely have more outside competition from powerful groups than China did. So depending on how things played out it's still possible they would have innovated

@ihatemotionblur_3255

6 ай бұрын

​@@ojpickle5923Nope. Dominant cultures like India, China and Rome dont adapt until they face devastating defeats or problems. In a stable society there will be nothing like that which caused India and China to stagnant and Europe to thrive

@Samuel42069

5 ай бұрын

you have poor education on ancient world but its alright, "i know that i know nothing". good luck with learning

@jasperaugustus3233

2 ай бұрын

​@@ihatemotionblur_3255I would like to think that Rome would be a little different from India and China mainly because of the Mediterranean Sea and the many mountains and rivers of Europe. They may stagnate but the vast potential for trade in there territory plus the variety of environments would cause innoation naturally.

This sound like a really fun potential sci-fi book or tv show where this world is invaded by an alternate reality where Rome never fell and a super advanced society that discovers how to travel between dimensions invading our reality in a sort of war of the worlds style event.

Love all your videos. and especially this - lot of fun. Can I suggest that every now and then, you do a history type timeline starting from a different divergence each time - eg. Maxentius, not Constantine, reunited the Empire.

Into the Romanverse

A great video as always. Thanks for uploading!

@Maiorianus_Sebastian

Жыл бұрын

Thank you Sohail, I am very glad that you liked it :)

@redgreen3974

Жыл бұрын

@@Maiorianus_Sebastian I think, if western Roman empire never fell, the world would be more advanced than real Timeline If Western Roman empire fell but Eastern didn't, the world would be less advanced than real Timeline because age of discovery would have probably happened after 200yrs, which led people build new and modern type of ships, engines, connection with others continents so technology increase

A timeline in which the Senatus Populusque Galacticus ruled supreme would be the best and most badass scenario imo. Imagine a Roman Empire that is like the Galactic Republic in Star Wars. It would be so awesome!

@hackman669

Жыл бұрын

Would republic be inspired before the Christian period or after? Hard to imagine authoritarians, like the Vatican, embracing a democratic republic.

An intriguing hypothesis, Maiorianus. Well presented. Thank you.

Shortly after 01:30: _We would have saved ourselves the 1000 years of Middle Ages which technologically speaking was basically lost time._ I think that's kind of exaggerated, though indeed some Roman achievements indeed were lost. However, there was progress like the invention of glasses, gunpowder, the adoption of the Indian number system, ever more sophisticated armour and so on.

@sosig6445

Жыл бұрын

metallurgy and agricultural techniques were steadily improving in the medieval era. without these foundations industrialisation was not possible

I am only one minute into this video, and you’ve already got me hooked!

Our bridges would last way longer than they actually do.

Very entertaining. Thank you!

i had no idea there were so many sci fi graphic art renderings of these speculations! cool!

Rome historian here. They certainly knew about hydraulics and steam power. The going theory now is that they were on the verge of an industrial revolution. There are several factories (for example: Barbegal, France. It is "the greatest known concentration of mechanical power in the ancient world") where certain items were mass produced, like bread and coins. These were typically powered by water. Certain admirals put metal strips on their boat to ward off boarding parties and to reduce fire damage (think of the ironclads from the US Civil War). The military were perfecting steel production (obviously not like todays steel). This would have caused a massive advance in armor, weapons, tools, etc. The Romans made certain inventions such as the mechanical reaper (a mechanical device used to harvest crops), not improved upon for 1,500 years until the 19th century. Also, we have modern concrete but it pales in comparison to Roman concrete. As it turns out, not only is Roman concrete more durable than what we can make today, but it actually gets stronger over time. In the end, we can only speculate (if Rome never "fell" and the dark ages didnt happen) how the world would look.

@Burgermeister1836

Жыл бұрын

Where was the turning point? When did these inventions stagnate and for what reasons? Because it seems that post-Diocletian at the latest there was very little innovation.

@Kai555100

11 ай бұрын

So if you are a historian, why did the eastern romans not do it? Yk the one who Stuck arround for a few centuries more than the west

@LostDisciple24

11 ай бұрын

@@Kai555100 There are numerous reasons as to why they didnt. They simplistic answer is we just dont know. Ask yourself though: If we can turn salt water into fresh water, why dont we?

@corvidcorax

11 ай бұрын

If roman concrete was as good as you claim then why aren't we using it, because IIRC we already know how they made it.

@LostDisciple24

11 ай бұрын

@@corvidcorax I'm not a construction or concrete expert. We know the ingredients they used but not the ratio. There are plenty of videos explaining roman concrete. I would suggest watching them. I could also assume that modern concrete is much cheaper to produce.

All civilizations fall (in very similar fashion too), just as ours is doing right now But it's fun to imagine what if the dark ages wouldn't have ensued, other batch of humans born would have conquered the solar system by now, or at least Mars.

@jmitterii2

Жыл бұрын

This perpetual failure of one nation after another from its golden age is always the poison pill that is a aristocrats; particularly a plutocratic (rich) oligarchy (few who rule). At some point, this blazingly clear truth actually has many thriving smaller nations who had their empire golden era fade, are actually enjoying much better prosperity compared to the flash in the pan empires like the Danish/Nords, Ottoman, Spanish, Austrian, French, Dutch, British, German, American empires... then look at the embers like the old norse nations like Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Germany, Austria, even the UK despite their torment past 30 years following America down the, we can be a big plutocratic rape fest once again idiocy.

@zomcom11

Жыл бұрын

Our civilization isn’t falling. Lol Mass instantaneous communication just makes you think it is.

@AvyScottandFlower

Жыл бұрын

​ @zomcom11 FIAT currencies and MASSIVE debt economies on the brink of collapse, ballooning and unsustainable welfare; pushes for Communism, Feminism, depopulation, starvation and war, disintegration of the family unit and destruction of marriage as an institution, etc etc.

@briantuk3000

Жыл бұрын

@@zomcom11 people tend to think "civilization" only emcompasses technology and the material conditions

@MaRkYs88

Жыл бұрын

It's falling,we still believe in money and glory, war's same as thousand years before. Fight before share, develop only what technology small of people allow. Once we prevail share benefits before rivalry and accumulation we will success, but now we still falling to the destruction of this kind of civilization, same as fall Ancient Greece, Egypt,Maya,Rome itd. Corruption and human nature it's self destructive

Here is a list of some amazing places that Romans could have easily explored but never did: -Ireland -Scandinavia (through sailing up north from Gaul) -Russia (through Don and sniper river systems) -east coast of Africa -west coast of Africa bellow Sahara -circumnavigating continent of Africa -India Some of these places the Greeks, Phoenicians and Carthaginians explored even though they had much less means that Romans had later but Romans simply never cared. I cannot fathom that there is NO mention of any exploration to even Ireland even though it was a stone throw away from Roman Wales!

Only a minute into the video but must pause to say, "Roman Cyberpunk" sounds freaken awesome!

I love this thought experiment. I wish I could travel the multiverse and time and see these possibilities. Good ideas for a sci-fi book too.

I think any discussion of a world in which the Roman Empire never fell absolutely must include a comparison with China and any argument for why Rome would've industrialized needs to articulate why it would've turned out differently from China since that is a real world example of a 2,200 year old centralized empire that never really fell (separate dynasties aside)

@baldviking1970

Жыл бұрын

Exactly. China - even if at times splintering in different states - allways came together to one empire, and thus never falled. And it was hugely sucessfull. It's agricultural output was huge, just like the Roman Empire at it's height, because it was so large and stable that it could diversify production. And it did develop, but way more slowly than Western Europe. I think Western Europe is the excemption. Something weird happened here. A Roman Empire that never fell would have been like China. Probably bigger, as it would have needed better borders. Maybe more militaristic than China, with more rebelions and civil wars.

@danesovic7585

Жыл бұрын

Well, nobody in China ever built a rudimentary steam engine for one, at least that we know of.

@baldviking1970

Жыл бұрын

@@danesovic7585 I think China understood the principle of steam engines during Song, but viewed it as a toy. Just as the Greeks and Romans.

@CuriousInquiror

Жыл бұрын

@@danesovic7585 Right exactly, that would be one example of an argument differentiating Rome and China. And to take your concept one step farther, you can say that Romans have shown an ability to apply existing technologies to engineering in a way that the Chinese did not and build out an argument that way. I'm not taking a position that Rome would've been exactly the same as China, just that taking a position that Rome would've industrialized if it never fell would be incomplete without exploring how it would've been different from China

@Vlad2319

Жыл бұрын

​@@danesovic7585 the ancient Chinese had rudimentary robots and there's proof someone devised a horseless carriage although I don't think it was built. If it was people viewed it as a bad form of witch craft. Same could be said of Leonardo da Vinci's Codexes and his inventions. People were terrified of world changing inventions until the industrial revolution. At that point people just wanted to go faster and become more efficient at what they did and everyone could develop something with or without funding. We're slowly getting to where we're doing the same thing as what happened in the past. Technology is stagnating and people are growing terrified of the next largest step and it's requiring people with the funds to develop the next piece of technology. Then comes the adoption of the technology.

Those Cyber Punk Roman machines are great.

Cyberpunk: Rome Intriguing

What if when Diocletian abdicated in AD 305, instead of forcing Maximian to abdicate along with him, he had Maximian succeed him as Eastern Emperor and Emperor-in-Chief with Constatius Chlorus succeeding Maximian as Western Emperor and Galerius becoming co-emperor in the West under Constantius with some other person, possibly Constantine succeeding Galerius as co-emperor in the East?

0:55 _"stuck in a pre-industrial world"_ Sounds like you consider that kind of sth bad ...?

I think the main thing that allowed industrialization and the explosion of science is the printing press. As a programmer, I look at it where there is the kind of variable "SpeedOfPropagatingInformation", which the printing press sped up the process. I don't even think universities are the thing. Roman empire had schools. A lot of discoveries in the 17-19 century was made by rich hobbyists who had time to explore difficult topics, money to hire or consult specialists and independence to focus on their scientific goals, and were not official scientists.

A Western Empire kept whole by Julian would be interesting

This video looks nice!

That would make an awesome TV-Show in an alternative reality. Similar to The Man in the High Castle or For all Mankind. Just with a much further away reality from our present. Alternatively I could picture an open world computer game playing in this world. Nice video :)

12:55 We do not know that it is feasible to build a colony on Moon or Mars in the first place.

Excellent video. In a way, we have a partial answer from historical reality. The Eastern Roman Empire, was, until the fourth crusade, the most scientifically, technologically and culturally advanced state in Europe. It did nt stagnante at all.

@brettcourtenay569

Жыл бұрын

In fact when Constantinople fell to the the Turks ending the eastern Roman Empire...there was a huge migration of Citizens from the city and vestigial areas of the empire into Europe and its capital cities. It is NO COINCIDENCE that the Renaissance BEGAN very soon after the fall of Constantinople as its people took their skills , crafts, tech and laws etc etc to a wider forum...and Europe was electrified by such talent feeding into its cities.

Roman slavery granted many free citizens time to become educated in sciences and experiment and Rome's culture was one of pragmatism glorification. This bodes well for the likelihood of technological advancements. The only problem was its very spartan-esque warrior elitism which may have interfered with one's dedication to non-combat related professions.

This this is why I would LOVE to see a Rome Total War 2 Steam Punk Rome mod. I can see it working like this. If its a mod during the main game. Alexandria (Egypt), The Egyptians are offered a a new tech tree and they could trade access to different factions. Or even send spies to alexandria and have some chance to get the tech tree before the Egyptians can An to get special unites, one must have access to certain resources and build certain buildings. Like have access to iron and wood resources. A iron foundry could be a simple economic building, a steel foundry could be a upgraded Iron foundry, used to make building army unites quicker and with more attack/defense points for each unite. An finally a steal factory used to build rail roads (if vanilla/original roads have been built fully). Another building could be gunpowder based. First build a Alchemist lab, which is largely a research booster for the steam punk tech and make some money from it. Next would be Alchemist academy, which increases research and more money. Finally A Alchemist Library, increases money and research generated. But most importantly allows for the creation of gunpowder unites (requiring you built Iron foundry as well (with steel factory giving fire arms another boost in power/cheapness). Other buildings could help create better ships and maybe even steam punk tanks as well. Could even do something where the map would extend out to Full on India and maybe even the new world? Or something of that order?

Great video, thank you! But I would formulate it in English like this: How would the world look (now) if the Roman empire had never fallen ( in the past)

Part of the problem I could see with this is that the weather disturbances which partially defined the Dark Ages would still happen.

@brettcourtenay569

Жыл бұрын

Weather disturbances affected the Roman Empire hugely but for a while...to its great advantage. Volcanic Eruptions cooled vast areas and Warming Events spread malaria as well as Disease such as the plague of Justinian. Prior to Rome the Bronze Age was effectively wrecked by changes in weather that effectively ended proto global trade links and destroyed most Bronze Age civilisations except for Egypt which had the benefit of the Nile to steer it through this period of Climate Caused disruption and collapse.

I'll take any alternative timeline just as long as one thing remains unchanged: Constantinople never falls to the Turks.

I agree with the idea that the empire fell mostly because of the incessant civil wars, but there is another major factor that I don't hear much about. A remarkable feature of the Roman Empire was the tiny size of the Imperial Bureaucracy. The number of paid civil servants in the empire numbered in the hundreds at most. The population high watermark was around 100 million. Imagine an empire of that size administered by a few hundred professional civil servants. Of course there were many more people involved in GOVERNING the empire: The Imperial Governors appointed by the Emperor (who were expected to support themselves through what we would consider official corruption), the Senior Offices of the Legions (also expected to support themselves). Taxes were collected through tax-farming so the collectors were private contractors rather than employees of the State. The Legionaries (and their later counterparts) were paid, but they were the ones causing the civil wars. What the Western Empire never had was a substantial core of professional bureaucrats that could have created the administrative inertia capable of maintaining governmental functions during times of civil war and crisis. Compare the Romans with the Chinese. There are many similarities, but a striking difference is that the Chinese Empire had a class of Confucian Scholar/Officials that ran the day to day operations of government even as Barbarians invaded and established new dynasties. The Roman military had mid-level officers who might have been capable of running provincial governments, but they were part of the legions that were fighting the civil wars. Without a stable class of civil servants, whenever there was a civil war, or a barbarian incursion, government beyond the town council level ceased to exist. After awhile the populace decided that a distant and occasional Imperial Throne was simply not worthy of support. Next time the tax collector comes around, kill him and hide the body. There might be another civil war before anyone important comes to investigate.

It is a fact that all empires will eventually fall but can we say that Rome really did fall? Roman institutions like the Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church preserved the culture of the Romans. In fact, these institutions would also be responsible for preserving the knowledge of the Romans though the cathedral schools and monastic schools (scholae monasticae), in which monks and nuns taught classes; evidence of these immediate forerunners of the later university at many places dates back to the 6th century. *Edit* : In fact, some of these educational institutions still exist, for example the *King's School* in Canterbury, Kent, England. It was founded during Late Antiquity in AD 597, a century after the Fall of the Western Roman Empire, by Augustine of Canterbury, considered the "Apostle to the English" and a founder of the English Church, thus making it arguably the world's oldest extant school. This is based on the fact that St Augustine founded an abbey (within the current school's grounds) where it is known that teaching took place.

@alexzero3736

Жыл бұрын

Are you f*cking kidding? Christians destroyed old Roman temples and statues, banned old beliefs, etc. They replaced Roman culture with Christianity.

@atherdain4913

Жыл бұрын

Every credible historian has rejected the narrativ of the fall of empires/ civilisations, it's rather a form of continuity. After the Byzantine Empire fell f.e. the imperial legacy lived on in many forms that are the Greek orthodox church, the ottoman palace/ empire, the Russian empire and so on.

@hglundahl

Жыл бұрын

@@alexzero3736 We banned one level of the old culture. Not most of it. Yes, we did ban sacrificing to Venus. But we _didn't_ ban the peristyle. My most direct experience of how the peristyle functioned is from a monastery, in Le Barroux.

@Happy-wb8gi

Жыл бұрын

Just tge fact thatcwe still use the Latin alphabet and 90% of the English alphabet is Latin, says it all. We live in buildings made of concrete/ cement, which Rome invented. Arches in buildings, btidfes, London, all exist and still do because of Rome. Yep, I agree, Rome still lived on.

@jach99

Жыл бұрын

​​@@Happy-wb8gi English isn't 90% Latin, more like 50%(including all Romance(mostly French) + Latin loanwords) vocabulary-wise and of course genetically and grammar-wise it's absolutely Germanic. There are however Romance languages, which are all modern variants of Latin, the closest to Classical Latin being Sardinian. I mean, of the European provinces of the Roman Empire that were Latin-speaking, almost all are neolatin speaking today, or at least have some neolatin minority. Except for Britania where no neolatin language is recorded and the Balkans except for Romania(which interestingly enough expands beyond the Roman border in the East and North) where there are however neolatin minority people, the Roman borders line up pretty well with neolatin people today.

11:38 _"The English science historian James Burke examines Roman watermill technology such as that of the Barbegal aqueduct and mill, concluding that it influenced the Cistercians and their waterpower, which in turn influenced the Industrial Revolution, in the fourth of his ten-part Connections, called "Faith in Numbers"."_ en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbegal_aqueduct_and_mills That said, Barbegal is an archaeological find. I'd like to know how the property was, from some written source. There are some from other places. The Cistercian water mills were obviously common property of the monasteries. I don't know if the ancient water mills were so of cities. In private hands, Barbegal would have enunciated a great inequality of property ...

There was an old Star Trek original series episode that addressed this question

In the Byzantine scenario, how do the Byzantine industrialize? Suddendly after 500 years after Heron of Alexandria, they just become industrialized like that? In the previous scenario, imagine inventing the Greek Fire along steam engined armoured cars, the fire car: Carrus Ignitus

I do not think Rome would have necessarily become more technologically advanced had it survived. Technology does not evolve in a linear fashion, and the Romans had many areas of stasis with regards to technological development. The dependence upon slavery was a major obstacle, as shown by the lack of technological innovation in agriculture.

@danesovic7585

Жыл бұрын

I keep seeing the slavery argument and it's even addressed in the video, yet people keep bringing it up. Are you American?

@erikgat7640

Жыл бұрын

Slavery argument is mentioned because the system of slavery including in the Roman Empire lasted up to the last days of the Western Europe still being heavily practiced. It was common for the wealthy to set up farms and its noted anywhere were labor can be used cheaper than a steam engine would kill off early steam engines. The proto factories that were mentioned in the video grow to a large scale in 4th century AD being build up on 1,000 years of water wheel improvements. Also the industrial revolution was occurred from combination of other factors not just the invention of the steam engine (Steam Engine was invented in the late 17th Century). Like the improvement of iron produce, transportation, improvement of mathematics and the English population dependents on coal for heating.

@cerdic6586

Жыл бұрын

I am an Englishman and have a degree in history, thank you very much.

@cerdic6586

Жыл бұрын

@@erikgat7640 Indeed. I would also add that England became the first industrialised nation because of its mixed constitution and relatively autonomous middle class. The impact of the Scientific Revolution is often overstated; more significance derived from the tinkering of artisans and the small business owning middle-class, who, unlike the semi-feudalist and controlled markets of other European states (excepting the Dutch Republic), had the liberty to continually improve technology. Unless the Roman Empire underwent astronomical social, economic and political changes, then I do not see how it would have inevitably industrialised in the late 18th Century sense of the term.

I imagine a bleak reality in which Heron developed steam power, the Empire industrialised, and 2023 is a hell-scape caused by early runaway climate change.

What if Roman Emperors made Suez Channel?

An important locus of discussion is the history of the development of the philosophy of science, especially regarding scientific methods of exploration, like the experimental method. Then, there is the mathematics and its historical development.

14:15 _"not quite as brutal as in our timeline"_ Where do you get your info about the Middle Ages from? Terra-X?

@hglundahl

Жыл бұрын

14:25 _"since some form of the old technology was better preserved"_ Roman technology didn't go away. Doing away with aquaeducts was not technology loss (except for the particular technology of aquaeducts), it was safety for cities against invaders, and also a question of wells giving better water. When St. Isidore of Seville discusses concrete, he notes a certain other technology (rubble held in place by outer walls of presumably brick or normal stonework) was even better than concrete. Plus Pozzolana was too rare to generalise the use of concrete.

Nobody can know how history would have been if the events would have been different.

The device which made the Industrial Revolution possible was not the steam engine. Rather, it was the machine that made the steam engine possible: The metal-working lathe. Lathes were used in Egypt in antiquity to cut wood and stone long before Rome existed. Much later, daVinci (of course!) sketched drawings of lathes in his notebooks. Then in the early 18th century, the basic concept of the metal-working lathe was invented by Nartov (1718) and Vaucanson (1751) . These machines allowed the boring and turning of the cylinders and pistons necessary for a steam engine, and could have been powered either by falling water or by Heron's aeolipile. Then in 1800, Maudslay invented the screw-turning lathe, allowing for mass production of machine screws, necessary for the assembly of Industrial Revolution machinery. By that time, the Industrial Revolution was fully underway, with the invention of the railroad in 1825. So really, it is not a stretch to think that a piston-in-cylinder steam engine could have been invented during the height of the Roman Empire.

Hey Maiorianus, where are you from?

Most long & stable empires turned stagnant. The Chinese had everything in place to create gunpowder , the printing press , etc. But because they liked things to stay like they were not much changed . Traditions stifled progress .

Thanks!

Marvelous

If Rome never fell? Like Europe would have had lots lesser states, if the Czarist and Austrian avatars of Rome hadn't fallen in 1918 ... (Prussian semi-avatar would not change much in terms of European states in their number) ... and the Orient would have had less states if the Turkish semi-avatar of Rome hadn't fallen then too.

Please never outgrow your passion. I really love your channel. ❤✌

great video

I recall a video where someone invented a steam operated device during the Roman Empire, but since it meant replacing actual workers an emperor had the invention destroyed and its inventor killed. Rome insisted a father teach his son(s) to continue what he had done for a living, thereby stifling innovation.

The steam engine requires a lot of technological and metallurgical advances to be effective, but the Romans could have made more use of basic air pressure devices not to mention the apparent lack of larger water powered industries (which preceded the actual steam engine in OTL) with a few exceptions.

700 B.C, one high Middle Ages from the Bronze Age collapse, to 1453, a short time before Columbus, is a damn good run either way you slice it.

Star Trek TOS did an episode 'Bread and Circuses' on this already.

For anyone who wants to see Greco-Roman cyberpunk, read the Red Rising series by Pierce Brown. IT'S SO GOOD

This concept intrigued my interest so much that I think hollywood should explore this idea.

Darwin got jobbed like someone on the real world survives a plane crash into the mountains, climbs down, solves world hunger and after he gets the medal of all awesomeness. He walks away and gets hit by a buss crossing the street.

10:09 When you've got nothing else to conquer, conquer yourself.

Thanks for this video . All my life I wander what if Roman Empire never felt . Thanks a lot and Love of a roman Friend bro . 🇬🇷 😊

Roman space cyberpunk, now that's a concept to explore in media.

I'd like to see an alt hist where the Roman Empire JUST consisted of: - The Balkan regions south of the Danube, Greece, and Anatolia -The Levant - Egypt - North Africa up to Carthage - Italy up to the Alps and Sicily - Illyricum The Empire would have worked more efficiently by focusing just on the economics and cultural sites such as Rome, Constantinople, Carthage, Ravenna, Antioch, Jerusalem, and Alexandria. And with extra luck, it would survive without the added baggage of Dacia, Gaul, Hispania, and Britain.

It would certainly be interesting to speculate upon what might have happened, if Britannia had not seen the Saxon Advent of the 5th century AD. The Romano-British culture would have endured, but would there have ever been a British Empire?

A very tiny ball is sent looping around a spinning blackhole. It is not destroyed but travels backward in time (travel around a spinning blackhole can cause the traveler to travel back in time as far back as desired as long as it is not before the time the black hole was formed and began spinning theoretically in physics). The ball is advanced to the point that some power source enables it to free itself from the gravity. It is outside the event horizon but still would need to free itself from tremendous g forces. It travels to Roman Emperor Maiorianus. As such, it spies on Ricimer, appears in front of Maiorianus and projects a hologram of Venus Genetrix which shows him the treachery of Ricimer in time. It tells him that her son Aeneas's legacy is at stake for he was the progenitor of Romulus and Remus! Ricimer is handed over to an able, trusted executioner because he was an old "friend" so the buck is passed, but Ricimer is executed, and his head brought back. The other plotters are brutally executed publicly. Venus Genetrix revealed that she also came in the form of the Virgin Mary more efficiently synergizing the two even then in our timeline. This enabled more cooperation between religions and greater cohesion amongst imperial subjects since she is used to bring the Arian Christians and Catholics together at least as much as tolerance as fellow Christians in a well thought out and negotiated peace and written edict of truces. His remaining reforms are implemented and corruption reduced when a cult of Venus Genetrix is formed within the imperial cult of loyal, religious and moral mean that replace the crappy ones !

Your first school of thought rather ignores the fact that the level of technology in the middle ages was far superior to antiquity's, esp. in milling, for instance--Hiero never did anything with his steam engine because there was no milling machinery suitable to become steam powered. Notice that the population of Western Europe in say, 1347, was about 4 time what it was in 150; that wasn't an accident.

@gentlemanfarmer6042

Жыл бұрын

Rome 150 AD approx 60-80million people in the empire. Europe around 1300 AD approx 50-100million. In interested to see where you got your popularity statistics from? Your a little off in your analyzation of the facts ( which are correct) The Islamic middle ages are well ahead of their European counterparts in terms of technology ( this is is a direct result of of Islam digesting nearly half the Roman Empire in its first bite at the known world) So via Islam, we get many of the Western things we think of today...the qorks of Socrates and Plato would be lost, if not for Bahgdad and uts library. I thought the "times you chose", wee interesting as well...as both dates 150ad and roughly 1350ad, are population thresholds right before very dramatic things happen...and reduce the populations of both. The crisis of the third century for the Romans and the Bubonic Plague for the Medival Europeans

@gentlemanfarmer6042

Жыл бұрын

Also I beg you to take a look at the Barbegil Mill in Southern France, it's the closest thing you get to a modern industrial complex, before the 1700s...

@colbystearns5238

Жыл бұрын

Not to mention Gothic cathedrals were very complex engineering marvels in their own right, perhaps more advanced than many Roman-era buildings. While a lot of knowledge was indeed lost when Rome fell, it's not like people stopped innovating and coming up with great things in the meantime before the Renaissance.

What if Cleopatra and Octavius a had a better relationship even a quasi parental/quasi Aunt-Uncle and quasi child familial relationship from the very start when Julius Caesar first introduced Cleopatra to Octavius and his mother. And in turn Julius Caesar first introduced Octavius and his mother to Cleopatra. Which possibly eventually lead to Rome never falling maybe Graeco-Roman Empire instead being a Egyptian Graeco-Roman Empire instead?

Just applying the steam engine to ships and then trains would have been complete game changers. They weren't that far away from it.

@izawa9211

Жыл бұрын

They were

Thanks To The Vídeo.

On the stagnation theory, and the collapse of Rome allowed industrialisation later, it’s interesting to note that much of early industrialisation and use of science did rest on discoveries, inventions and theories by Ancient Greek and Roman philosophers, scientists and inventors, though never exploited at the time. One claim is that widespread reliance on slaves inhibited industrialisation this video does tackle this argument highlighting examples of where this did occur despite slavery existing. So it was possible at least in some parts of the Empire and it’s quite possible that there were further examples that haven’t left remains to us, archaeology could potentially answer this.

1:52 Travelling to stars multiple light years away, supposing the cosmos really looks like that, isn't a question of technology. Voyager 1 and 2 are less than 1 _light day_ away. And they were launched in the 70's ... the reason they were feasible is that they are unmanned. People on them would have died pretty quickly otherwise. 45.5 years. 45.5 * 365 * 4 = 66,430 years, IF Voyager 1 had already been 24 lighthours up. I fact, Voyager 1 is 22 light hours 5 light minutes and 10 light seconds up. And I even shortened the year by 0.2425 days ... If the cosmos looks like that, travelling to other stars is a question of simply not feasible.

@PaulZyCZ

Жыл бұрын

Nobody sane would consider chemical propulsion to get even a mere probe to nearby stars. Any serious proposal mentions nuclear or laser (sail) propulsion. The problem is we (humanity) either don't have the technology yet, even if it's around the corner (fusion torch) or we don't have the sheer space infrastructure required (Enzmann Starships). We may need the latter anyway to send a human crew anywhere further than Jupiter. It may not be feasible sending anything less than repurposed O'Neill cylinder, which could take a thousand years to happen.

@hglundahl

Жыл бұрын

@@PaulZyCZ Even for nuke propulsion, it's not feasible.

@hglundahl

Жыл бұрын

@@PaulZyCZ Plus, nuke propulsion is an added danger, like for people on earth.

@PaulZyCZ

Жыл бұрын

@@hglundahl Nuclear, not nuke propulsion. Enzmann Starship would use deuterium to create 2 kt blasts, but it wouldn't come anywhere close to Earth. Besides NASA wants to use nuclear propulsion to reach Mars with human crew in 45 days. No nukes, just reactor heating the propelant. There's already a company claiming they are close to having fusion propulsion based on a linear fusion reactor. I'm not sure how that turns out, but working fusion torch can send a probe to Alfa Centauri in 20 years of a travel time. It's like talking about going to the Moon while building Stonehenge. I think it will be feasible for Humans to collonize (some) exoplanets one day far in the future, but currently it's not even clear if getting electricity from GEO is worth it yet.

@hglundahl

Жыл бұрын

@@PaulZyCZ _"Sources conflict about the projected speed, perhaps 30% of the speed of light, c, but 9% may be more likely."_ From the wiki on Enzmann starship. If alpha Centauri is 4 light years away, that means over 40 years. _"It's like talking about going to the Moon while building Stonehenge."_ How do you know they didn't? I think they talked of going past the Moon when building Göbekli Tepe (see Genesis 11:1 - 9).

Truly Gladiator had this film version of Marcus Aurelius wanting to restore the Republic.

Marvels Dr Whos Iron Legion story described an alternate Galactic Roman Empire complete with bizarre alien gladiators in ghoulish detail...

Thanks ❤️

The Romans would put the city of Rome on the back burner, reducing it to purposes of cultural tourism (like Athens), because it was hampered by the nearby more and more malarial pomptine marshes, and rather developed Ravenna or another more healthy Italian site. Even Naples would have been considered far more welcoming for a factory city and used the pumice of Vesuvius as an important raw material for its industrialization.

Can't even imagine!

In some ways we'd be more advance, and other ways we'd be less advanced. The Medieval period did see a major setback in some technology for Western Europe, some of it that hasn't been fully recovered until the Industrial Revolution, but at the same time there was a good amount of other necessary technology that would push necessary progress such as windmills, hospitals (technically before 476, but by Christians in Eastern Rome) and the printing press. Even though Europe was held back for some time, other places such as East Rome, Arabia, India, Persia, and China made tons of progress. Though the idea of a steampunk Rome sounds pretty cool.

@DreamersOfReality

5 ай бұрын

Slavery would still be legal in the empire, for one. There would also be no enlightenment, no political drive for egalitarianism.

I think the first e most relevant branching happened when that legionarie killed Archimedes contrary to the legatus order of keeping him alive at all costs, as Gauss realized years leter in despair for the lost opportunity Archimedes was very close to inventing Calculus, or at least grasping its potential, more than 1900 years earlier than Newton and Liebnitz, that would have given to the Romans and even more solid mathematica base to produce science, and with enough smart people all would have followed soon. Also other successive branching could be: Octavian not destroing the Library of Alexandria, and Heron realizing the power of steam

SF author Robert Silverberg's "Roma Eterna" (2003) addresses this topic.

Regarding technological stagnation I believe it was Polibius Histories (way back in around 146 B.C.E) that believed Rome was simply the civilisation of (Macedoninian) Greece and was greatly concerned that the Imperium would decline as 'self fulfilling prophesy'. P 166, Hermann, Arthur, The Cave & The Light: " Polybius regretted to conclude it could not. “For this state, [which] takes its foundation and growth from natural causes, will pass through a natural evolution to its decay.” Sooner or later, doom would come to the greatest empire in the world. This is “a proposition which scarcely requires proof,” Polybius grimly wrote, “since the inexorable course of nature is sufficient to impose it on us.”14 It was a heart-stopping prophecy, in part because Polybius’s picture until then had been so positive and reassuring. In a profound way, Polybius’s prophecy was Greece’s revenge on its Latin conqueror. Polybius had cunningly turned Plato into a dagger that plunged into the heart of Rome’s hopes for the future." End Quote. ... There is a line of thinking that Roman civilisation whilst extremely advanced in administration that underpins infrastructure, was relatively stagnant compared to the post 1100 Middle Ages, that had the opposite dilemma- no central structure, terrible daily infrastructure but more advanced technologies for example, the vertical axel windmill (1187 CE) steel armour and formal banking systems, the concepts of interest and loans, 'future capital' as apposed quantity based taxes (approx 1397 CE). ... Of course, even the term 'middle ages' is a Polybius 'cycle of history' style concept and that infers an ending to Western culture like a stage play. English & French, the lingua franca of academic history- the upstart Gauls or Saxon invaders, from England, Edward Gibbon to Spengler, Neitzche, considering themselves preventing a Roman style 'decline' in there own culture, something Emporer Julian would have found amusing... if only he'd invented time travel!

Another interesting possibility is that the Eastern Roman Empire survives but deteriorates in the industrial age and "Greece" still becomes independent based on a more Hellenic rather than Byzantine identity and becoming enemies like Greece and Turkey irl.

I’m not sure why…but there is a soft beeping in the background of this video and it’s driving me crazy lol