“Local commanders were allowed leeway to develop SOP”. AKA, “dude, just go figure it out”. Some things don’t change.

@williamt.sherman9841

3 жыл бұрын

best way to fight tho

@ayylmao9697

3 жыл бұрын

If we don't know what we're doing, how can anyone else?

@thelittlestmig3394

3 жыл бұрын

_"One of the serious problems in planning against American doctrine is that the Americans do not read their manuals nor do they feel any obligations to follow their doctrine."_ - Soviet officer's comment during cold war.

@Delgen1951

3 жыл бұрын

@Thomasine J. It was not (the crash) engineered, but the couse can be traced to the loans that US banks made to the Allied powers in WW1 and the repayment plan imposed on the allies and through them on Germany which could not pay them.

@eyesofstatic9641

3 жыл бұрын

@@ayylmao9697 I love this saying so much lol

My reaction after the last video from Battle Order: 'Looking forward to more vids, any chance of in depth a analysis of US combined arms Combat Commands in the end of WOII? Any video on combined arms would be cool though!'. Just three weeks later this video pops up. Outstanding work on a very interesting topic. Great to hear there is more (modern) Combined Arms stuff coming! Quickly becoming my favorite military history channel!

This is the winner of the poll we had a little while back on our Community Tab. Comment what you'd like to see a video on! This video was meant to be a broad overview of the division and combined arms tactics, so we didn't go super in-depth into say the Tank Battalion or Armored Infantry Battalion for example. If you'd like to see dedicated videos for those two formations, let us know! Also one small detail that was omitted, very late in the war some armored division's M5A1 Stuarts would be replaced by M24 Chaffees. Armored Divisions were typically prioritized for these over the Separate Tank Battalions which were attached to Infantry Divisions.

@pyeitme508

3 жыл бұрын

Cool

@alemorenopaez

3 жыл бұрын

Please!! Go more in depth!! If you can use COH or men of war to show all this tactics and formations would be awsome

@TheLastSterling1304

3 жыл бұрын

Excellent video as always. If you ever get to it, a comparision with their British armoured division counterpart would be great. While it could be done against a panzer divisions, I'd say it wouldn't be too fair since the panzer divisions were usually understrengthed. Comparing the US and British might be a bit more balanced seeing something so similar yet so different. the US had fully tracked artillery, while the British had 17pdrs towed and SP organic as an example.

My grandfather worked as a mechanic for several different armored divisions form 41-45. He was a farm boy used to working on tractors and grain trucks. Still managed to get shot in the ass though and shelled multiple times. He refused a Purple Heart for it because of what he knew the frontline troops went through. He died in 1983 from lung cancer, likely from the two packs he smoked per day from the war until his grave.

Love ur content, thanks for ur work on these

@BattleOrder

3 жыл бұрын

I appreciate that!

Great work as always. How about exploring the Cavalry Group and it’s role?

Its fascinating that each US Armored Division had their own style for Combat Command and Task Forces. Probably the most "structured" set up was the 5th Armored Division with three equal Combat Commands (using CCR as a regular maneuver command) and within each a heavy Task Force with two Medium Tank and two Armored Infantry Companies and a light Task Force with one Medium Tank and one Armored Infantry Companies. 4th Armored used CCR for a rest and refit but sent CCR with Abrams' and Jaques' battalions to Bastogne because CCA and CCB got held up on the move north. Even the "heavy" 2nd and 3rd Armored Division operated Combat Command Reserve (usually small), with the 3rd Armored sending it towards Hotton during the Battle of the Bulge while CCB was used to reinforce 30th Infantry Division and CCA held back at Eupen to be sent into battle later.

Fun family fact, had an uncle that was a L4 pilot. He was shot down 5 times but never captured, his secret was he was a good runner.

i was writing to my lecturers and found your website useful, thank you for doing what you do, and thank you for leading me to appropriate sources

@BattleOrder

3 жыл бұрын

Glad it was helpful!

Loving these recent vids!

Been following you since when you started posting in facebook. You're making great content!

New here, long time history geek. Left a sub, can’t wait to see what you do next 😁

Ohhh, this would be really great for other countries too. I know the germans usually varied wildly, but that would just make it more interesting, to see how it shifted. Great work :)

@BattleOrder

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the suggestion!

@swedishm90camouflage17

3 жыл бұрын

I second this.

This is the kind of subject which is making Battle Order an outstanding military history channel.

Avalon Hill's Panzer Leader/Panzer Blitz games allow you to command units at the platoon/company level. Very fun board games

I dont know why, but this video is one of my favorite videos that you have made.

Great video, I would only say that in my research of the 12th Armored Division I have only ever seen the task forces described as names or at least CCB's task forces. i.e. TF Rammer, TF Power, TF Norton, TF Fields, etc... My Grandpa was in the B/714th Tank Battalion, part of CCB in the infantry heavy task force.

Very well done Clean. Clear. Concise.

Enjoyed the Finest Hour and Day of Infamy music, good choice.

Good stuff ! The British & Commonwealth Armoured Divisions were also making it up as they went along, Interesting that they came to a very similar conclusion; battlegroups of paired Armoured and Infantry battalions.

Very comprehensive content

Great video!!!

@BattleOrder

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you!!

This video makes me a happy Tread Head!!! Love your reference to modern Brigade Combat Teams and KampfGruppes

Sir if I may an excellent, well rounded documentary

@BattleOrder

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you!

Excellent video, as always! Do you by chance have any good reading on how the 14th Armored Division did things?

My grandpa was a T-4 in the 414th Armored Artillery of the 20th Armored Division. Thank you for filling out some details of his time in WWII. Information on the 20AD is hard to come and even harder to verify. Some histories place his unit at Dachau and the SS Panzergrenadier school in Munich, but I've found nothing conclusive. To further complicate matters it appears that the Army lost the official unit records. I'd appreciate more information the 20AD. Also, could you do a video on the uses of motorcycles in WWII by US forces? Thanks.

In the movie “Fury” (2014) with Brad Pitt, they were assigned to the 66th Battalion, 2nd Armored Division April 1945.

@IceAxe1940

Жыл бұрын

1st Battalion. 66th Armored Regiment, 2nd Armored Division

Excellent and Outstanding!!!

Excellent video as always. Any plans to cover Japanese infantry and/or armored units?

@lukejohnston4666

Жыл бұрын

IJA or GSDF?

A very informative video. Came here on behalf of a close friend, WW2 vehicule collector, looking for historical accurate info on US Army use of M8 Greyhound in combat units, specifically for the 2nd Armoured Division, of which we understand the 82nd Armoured Reconaissance battallion was equipped with M8. Still looking for a correct depiction of shoulder patch 2nd Armoured "Hell on Wheels" Division, but specifically with the designation RCN for Recon. (how would that be put on a patch?) I also like your audio use of Call of Duty and Medal of Honour Frontline OST.

Love the Medal of Honor them playing in the back

Really great video! Any chance of doing a video about the organization and tactics of airborne and/or infantry divisions during World War 2 and/or the Vietnam War?

Are you also planning to do videos on modern organization? I saw them on your website

@BattleOrder

3 жыл бұрын

Next video is going to be on Russia's current Motorized Rifle Companies

I have already asked this but would it be possible to see Soviet air ground attack tactics in a future video? This is a very important part of deep operation doctrine and far more complicated that german ground attack of using stukas as mobile, flying artillery.

My grandfather was a tank driver for the 3rd armored division in the mid to late 50s.

It’s surprising how much freedom each Armored Division has when dealing training and equipment. It makes sense why some commanders didn’t want a 76mm Sherman in Normandy.

If we don't have any idea what we're doing, the enemy can't either.

Love this

Worth noting is US WWII armored forces were far from a bunch of sitting ducks for German tanks and US Army statistics prove it! While war will never not be horrible your REAL odds of survival in a tank were excellent (and better by a long shot than Eighth Air Force bomber crews who lost more KIA than the entire US Marine Corps). While noobs hallucinate all armor does is fight other armor that's far from the truth. Sherman could go to support infantry where the few German Tigers could not, and the high reliability and maintainability of US tanks and support vehicles (tanks don't move unless trucks bring them fuel, ammo, food, parts etc) was key to victory.

@lukejohnston4666

9 ай бұрын

Never know this fact about 8th AF higher casualty number than the leathernecks

"Too many tanks" have you any idea how hard this is to accept?

@BattleOrder

3 жыл бұрын

An unsupported tank is a dead tank, and thicc units are harder to control and sustain, so goes the reasoning

@Treblaine

3 жыл бұрын

@@BattleOrder Hmm, hence Battle of Brody/Dubna.

@CallsignYukiMizuki

3 жыл бұрын

Germany: *Can barely keep a tank operating* US: Why cant I hold all these tanks?!

@thewhiteknightman

3 жыл бұрын

Yup, in fact during the North Africa campaign Rommel was constantly asking his superiors to send him more infantry. He had plenty of tanks, but was losing infantry consistently, especially after El Alemein and Torch

@TheLastSterling1304

3 жыл бұрын

"Too many tanks" meanwhile armored divisions in the beginning of the war were tank heavy or even lacked infantry support. As the war progress the balance shifted towards more infantry focused formations in their "armored divisions". That is what happened to all nations in the war; German,Russian,American,British, etc. Even to this day, Armored divisions are more balanced towards infantry than tanks.

Excellent and outstanding. Instead of falling asleep by counting sheep, I like to fall asleep counting organizational tables...

Oh,no. My subscription list is unwieldy already. And then you showed up on my feed with this. Actual content I really enjoy. And there I was years ago,bitching at the wasteland of daytime television. Now I have to make up my mind just what it is I wish to watch. Some people are just never satisfied.

Can you do more ww1 tactics and strategy of the different nations like what tactics and small arms strategy did Canadian, Russian, German and American use?

you should def do more ww1 interwar ww2 cold war post cold war and modern present era in the 2000s 2010s 2020s and beyond aka 21st century for different units and military organizations and etc

Honestly im still confused on the whole unit structure....but then im interested about this topic....good to watch

How is the mortar in the armored infantry platoon supposed to be used? Does it take orders from the platoon HQ and support the platoon? Or do they tend to combine with the other platoon's mortars. Also in the dismount do they just set up around the trucks?

I'm glad I found this.

Great one. The logistics were handled by whom?

@BattleOrder

3 жыл бұрын

Logistics and maintenance units were in the division trains.

can you do a vid on WW2 brit armour?

This is infinitely interesting

The Brits had a very few armored divisions during 2nd WW. Instead they relied on independent armored brigades (equipped with cruiser tanks) and tank brigades (equipped with infantry tanks). US Army also had a significant chunk of its armored forces outside armored divisions. Up to one third of all tank battalions were non-divisional and usually attached to maneuver forces. A typical US infantry division fought in European theater was reinforced with a tank battalion and a tank destroyer battalion that’s up to 100 armored fighting vehicles. At that stage of the war the opposing Wehrmacht panzer corps or even panzer army had less armored fighting vehicles.

What about the equipment of the Infantry Squads of Armored Divisions? How much men were in a Armored Infantry squad and what weapons were assigned to them?

6:09 - Combat commands were not inspired by the German Kampfgruppe concept. They emerged from the US pre-war (ie pre-1941) armored exercises, notably the Carolina Maneuvers (November 1941). The maneuvers showed that the brigades in the Divisions never fought as brigades, but instead the sub-units were split up into combat teams tailored for specific missions.Because of this, in January 1942, the permanent creation of Combat Command units in US Armored Divisions was authorized; headquarter units with no organic combat troops, to which the divisional commander would assign his battalions as needed for the missions at hand.

@BattleOrder

3 жыл бұрын

Fair, I should've dug deeper on that point

@colinkelly5420

3 жыл бұрын

@@BattleOrder To be fair, I only know from a 1970's book on the 2nd US Armored Division, which happens to talk about how the US divisional structure evolved. I'm not sure where you'd normally find this info though.

can you do modern brigade combat teams

Interesting but what about medical support throughout the division? Knocked out tanks and casualties would, of course, have been expected and accepted. However, a good casualty evacuation system would go a long way toward preserving the combat power of the units.

Love to see more german content espcallity SS panzers OOB love these guys

In the book tank commander by tom close he says the British didn't use soldiers to support tanks at first and it cost them over 200 tanks. A good new book is spearhead an American tank gunner

Can you make a video about the Indonesian Armored Division Tactics? Because they just recently made a modern, medium tank and also, the Indonesian Doctrine has a lot to do with Infantry and Guerilla warfare, so I'm a little bit curious about their use of tanks.

@lukejohnston4666

9 ай бұрын

Kostrad 1 div and 2 div. Has a Para brigade but also each a battalion of leopards... (indonesian here) 😊

New ideas; u make vids about US cav div in wwi

Cool!

This video saved me from hours of digging throu military domuments cuz im trying to play hoi 4 historical usa

You should do a video on the history of the marine corps tank history since they’ve now faxed out tanks 💔

@black10872

3 жыл бұрын

No disrespect to Marine Armor but marine Armored history is nowhere near how Army Armor is. There was no real major tank battles with the Marines fighting the Japanese. Marine armored warfare was like WW1 where tanks were just infantry support, and mobile artillery. They did their job taking out Japanese machine gun nests, and bunkers. So they had their role, and were effective but Marine Armored history is nowhere near the Army's armored history. And I think its a very bad idea for the Marines to give up its own Armor. The Marines should not rely on the Army for armored support. The Marines are going to need tanks again somewhere in the not too distant future.

How long did this organization last after the war? Did it last until the Pentomic or ROAD reorganizations?

Will there be a comparison to other armies' tank-infantry combined arms tactics?

@BattleOrder

3 жыл бұрын

It is possible! I broadly know how the British/Germans/Soviets organized their armored divisions. How they conducted combined arms within those divisions is a trickier matter

Can you make Combined Arms of Germany and Russian in WW2?

I have a question. Why soviet cold war era tank division was so tank heavy 10 tank battalions vs 6 motor rifle battalions?

Why do I always feel the need to eat chips while watching these videos? God damn it, now I'm hungry again.

Top video

@BattleOrder

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks!

@moritztabor7804

3 жыл бұрын

@@BattleOrder Thank you man for your work! These videos are awesome. Pls make more. P.S.: Can you maybe someday make something about German stuff? Greetings from Bavaria and have a nice day :D

Can you do a snapshot on Warrant Officers? Within my branch (USMC) they’re not too common. Especially limited duty officers (LDO) and gunners.

What happened to regimental commanders when ‘heavy’ switched to ‘light’?

Wow. Thts complex but 🥰👍👍👍

Industrialized powers during WWII had the firepower that others can only dream about. It looks like An armored US divisions have more heavy ordinances than other countries' entire armed forces.

My great uncle served in the third armoured division in WW2. I wish he could have hung around longer to talk about his time in.

@ericaswensonelliott

Жыл бұрын

Like you, My Great Uncle served in 2AD 66th Armored Regiment- he made it to Germany KIA 11-28-1944- I’m piecing together his story from letters he and other family member wrote to make into a book to honor his memory -but I wish he had made it back too- wish I got to meet him instead…hers to you Uncle Pete- thanks for this great video and hard work!

@BlitkriegsAndCoffee

Жыл бұрын

3rd Armored was one of the most battle hardened and storied American divisions of WW2. 2nd and 3rd Divisions were the only two divisions not converted to the new lighter formations, and consistently got used as Sledgehammers against German defenses as a result. (The Spearhead nickname wasn't just pulled from a hat) If he was in any frontline role, he saw a lot of combat.

@MrAwsomenoob

Жыл бұрын

​@@BlitkriegsAndCoffeemy uncle said he only talked to him once about his service. So what I do know is he was a half-track operator and he did serve in patton's army.

@BlitkriegsAndCoffee

Жыл бұрын

@@MrAwsomenoob I think there might be a misunderstanding here. Patton commanded 3rd *ARMY*. 3rd ARMORED *DIVISION* was under XIX Corps and then 9th Army.

You do not show truck mounted infantry, they were lots. They would walk while the trucks were used as resupply units.

so i know you have done a lot of world war two, are you planing on doing anything from the modern day?

@BattleOrder

3 жыл бұрын

Next video is going to be on current Russian motorized rifle companies

@donaldsherman5913

3 жыл бұрын

@@BattleOrder got it, because as someone that uses your videos to help build a show, the level of detail is amazing, also thanks for making my head hurt lol

are they 40 width or 20 width ???

How many tanks where in each company? And how many tanks are in a battalion

@suityboi2126

2 жыл бұрын

13 ish in a company roughly 35 in a battalion

I have a copy of Shelby Stanton's "Order of Battle - US Army WW2.". One time I went through and came up with organizations like this after reading Harold Coyle's "Team Yankee." It's nice to see I wasn't that far off. I thought the company team was a modern thing

I have a question, how many tanks would be in said battalions?

@IceAxe1940

Жыл бұрын

Around 30-40 tanks per Battalion.

That narrative didn't say how many tanks hardware is in each Bn nor of the whole Div

Great video. It would be awesome to see other combatants' structure like panzers, Soviets, etc.. My uncle serve in the Bulge and into Germany in '44/45, in artillery support, which I think was a major advantage for the Americans against the Germans. He described how terrifying the 88's were to encounter, with their flat trajectory throughout the lines and creepy sound. Also, a green platoon lieutenant, against the advice of more experienced NCOs ruined 3 out of their 4 howitzers by firing at a high angle against frozen ground without pre-digging the frozen earth underneath and the recoil smashed them up.

One of the armored divisions had a combat command task force Wintermute? We had AI commanding a combat unit in WW2!?

Food god why did the not put tops on armored vehicles in ww2.

oh yes the european assault theme its so good

Think you could have aided the average viewers' understanding of Armored Divisions if you had included the Armored Ordnance Battalion in your explanation. Important piece of the puzzle...

Tankers lead the way! 👊😎

Kampftgruppe please

@Sam-gz2us

3 жыл бұрын

Kampfgruppe are ad-hoc and highly flexible by their very nature, surely? They’re a product of ropey Wehrmacht logistics and the chaotic nature of German forces in the retreat.

I hope HOI5 accommodates to build that kind of organization into the game...

What about British Tanks Division During WW2

Remember: Combined Arms is good for you. :)

US Tank divisions had a lot of artillery support.. US Artillery fired 3x more shells than Soviets or Germans.. plus, they had very effective forward observers, therefore artillery fire was quite precise.. It was one of main reasons why US tank divisions were more than a match for German tank units, which in late 1944 lacked proper mechanized infantry support and had minimal artillery cover...

@JaM-R2TR4

3 жыл бұрын

​@eddie money why dont you watch videos on this channel about soviet artillery then???

@JaM-R2TR4

3 жыл бұрын

@eddie money yeah, but they did not have radio equipped infantry, they did not have forward observers to call in artillery, they had much less ammunition for their artillery.. artillery units were organized on higher level, therefore when they fired, they fired blindly and germans most of the time completely avoided the barrage... Soviet tank units had no access to artillery support during their attacks (had to rely on corps level artillery, which they couldnt call in, because they had no connection to them).. so all in all, Soviets instead tried to compensate by using artillery in direct fire.. or they just massed artillery to certain sectors, but after initial barrage, there was no support.. which was main reason why soviets were losing huge amount of tanks to german infantry and antitank guns thorough entire war... so once again - US tank divisions had more artillery support and they fired much more ammunition than Soviet or Germans had access to...

@JaM-R2TR4

3 жыл бұрын

@eddie money how many of those radios were available to ordinary infantryman during WW2??? how many of those infantrymen received training to be able to guide artillery on target??? even in 1945 chance that infantry battalion in the field would have direct connection to divisional artillery and would be CAPABLE calling in artillery strikes was MINIMAL.... Seelowe height barrage is perfect example how inflexible soviet artillery was... they wasted ammo at positions Germans were already abandoned.. and afterwards failed to support own units attacking second line of defenses, which caused huge amount of losses... so you should be the one who needs to stop believing in Soviet propaganda...

TANK! Imma tank.

what one thinks after playing to much hoi.

Hearts of iron 4 brought me here. Being a WW2 history buff divisional organization has always eluded me. That's why I'm getting steam rolled as we speak.

How were they organized in 1942 during the North African Campaigm?

Us Army in real life: *Refines Tanks supported by infantry* Me in Hoi4: *makes pure super heavy tank division*

Dispite the sherman being a ""bad tank"" fact cheak me but ive heard that only 88 tankers died in ww2

@BattleOrder

3 жыл бұрын

The number is more like 1,500. From June 44 to April 45 they lost about 900 tanks, 171 of which were from mines, 119 from man-portable rockets, 106 from unknown, and 502 from gunfire. But the Sherman wasn't a particularly bad tank. It had flaws, but in terms of survivability it was decent. Later models were fairly easy to get out of in an emergency when compared to contemporary tanks. On average only one crewmember would be killed or wounded if a tank were lost. Its armament was suitable for the vast majority of tasks a tank would be in. While less proficient in anti-tank combat, this was envisioned to be the job of the tank destroyer (which during the Cold War, those roles would all be rolled into the main battle tank concept). The Chieftain has talked about it in more detail, but basically the Sherman's bad rap was caused by a whack historian taking one biased viewpoint and running with it. A lot of the Sherman memes lack context

@packr72

3 жыл бұрын

Battle Order It’s survivability was more than “decent.” It was the most survivable armored vehicle WW2. The basic 75mm armed Sherman was more than enough to deal with Germany’s two most common AFV’s; the StuG and PzIV. The bigger German tanks had an advantage at long range but on the Western front ranges didnt usually exceed 300 yards. The M4 was the most well rounded tank of the war, not perfect, but more than good enough.

@Comma_Man64

3 жыл бұрын

I think that statistic is just for US tankers in Italy, I remember hearing something to that effect on Chieftain's channel.

@jeffreyknickman5559

3 жыл бұрын

@@BattleOrder That would be Belton Copper, I guess. The tank mechanic guy from the 3rd Armorded Division.

@floydvaughn836

2 жыл бұрын

@@packr72 AND everyone in a U.S. unit had radios. Artillery killed more tanks in WW 2 than any other weapon.

1 old Ironsides 😈

Türkçe çeviri ekleyin

@armchair3339

4 ай бұрын

Say please…

The sherman had problems with anything later than the early models of the Panzer 4