This is the same thing that happens to old tape drive belts over time. the rubber they use must be the same. great video ! it is good to know what's causing the problem and to see it first hand. Thanks!

12 minutes in and you are going to be a legend if you get this drive up and running again ! Really enjoyed it so far ... also worked on one of those today ..... IDE version from an old IBM computer. my second brake bumper was underneath the platters so I had to remove everything. (head assembly , platters , .....). Drive worked for 1 day after the fix...after that never worked again. Coil wire got separated from one of the heads. :(

@WhatUpTKHere

3 жыл бұрын

That's rough, can be hard working on these old drives! Hope you had fun along the way :D

@RetroSpector78

3 жыл бұрын

@@WhatUpTKHere Sure did ... Fortunately I'm a big believer in the importance of failure :)

Thank you for this great video. I was able to save my Amiga 3000 HDD thanks to you. To remove the old sticky black stuff I used acetone, which worked fine. To replace the rubber stoppers I used 4 layers of shrinking tube. Looks like original and works fine.

@WhatUpTKHere

4 жыл бұрын

Great idea! Acetone is badass

@jeremybender401

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks. Shrink tubing was great idea.

@jdryyz

7 ай бұрын

I also have an A3000 with a Quantum SCSI drive installed. It is supposed to be 50MB. I believe it *is* spinning up but uncertain about the heads moving. It reports a 0MB drive size! Perhaps this is a case where swapping the controller board would be necessary. Bear it mind, I did not attempt any fiddling with software tools as I want to try to retain the data.

Thank you very much. Just fixed my Mac Classic II. I use it to run Sound Designer II to interface with my Emulator II

@WhatUpTKHere

2 жыл бұрын

Glad it helped! That's a win.

This absolutely works! Brought back to life my IIsi! Top!

@WhatUpTKHere

4 жыл бұрын

Awesome! Hope it runs well for years to come :)

I just put a tiny piece of masking tape over the sticky rubber and it solves the problem. It's possible to do this (carefully!) without removing the whole magnet, since that's a source of trouble more often than not!

@WhatUpTKHere

7 жыл бұрын

ah, nice solution!

Thanks for this, I have 4 Mac classics that need the hard drives repairing, worth a shot 👍🏼

@WhatUpTKHere

6 ай бұрын

Good luck pal! Hope it goes well :D

Legend ! :) Great job .... feels good....

I loved how casually you tap the drive read head with fingers...NO FEAR :) lol

@WhatUpTKHere

3 жыл бұрын

Hahaha, definitely not standard practice

Nice video, glad you did this. Funny how there are people crying on the Hackaday comments about your technique - they don't realise how clunky the older gear is, methinks.

@WhatUpTKHere

8 жыл бұрын

Thanks! Yeah, fairly typical to see a lot of negative comments with this sort of thing. To all of those complaining, I simply invite them to look at my results.

I just had to buy an old performa 400 because my previous one stop working but I need the data off the hard drive, the machine works fine but the hard drive don't respond. I am glad I found your video as I am hoping this is the reason it's not working. Fingers crossed

@WhatUpTKHere

3 жыл бұрын

Hope it goes well! If it's critical tho consider paying professionals

@dennj

3 жыл бұрын

@@WhatUpTKHere I am happy to say that your trick worked! I got the hard drive to boot up again. Now to figure out how to back it up but thanks for this video, you just earned a subscriber

Thanks for the video! My hard drive appears to be newer (1996 I think), as there were little plastic arms that acted like bumpers ( www.screencast.com/t/cXnLBshe ). The actuator arm was defiantly stuck, but I could not determine why. I carefully released the left "bumper arm" and gently/manually moved the arm a little back-n-forth a little. Then I put everything back together, and the drive booted and has kept booting too. Awesome trip down memory lane! Thanks again for the video.

@WhatUpTKHere

3 жыл бұрын

Magnificent! Definitely backup anything in there as it may not last forever. Glad I could help!

Interestingly your ProDrive is similar to a much-older “Plus” drive made by Quantum and found in an SE/30 that I’m dealing with today. Previously I’ve dealt with a different ProDrive from the 90s which is newer and cheaper - in an LCIII - and one of the bumpers was under the platters. To solve that one, I made an odd-shaped replacement bumper using my 3D printing in TPU, that pushed in beside the magnet plate. It had to be just the right thickness to prevent the head arm from reaching the original bumper. Worked well on the third design attempt (if it’s too thick, it can’t find the tracks!) On this other type, I just 3D print a cylinder of the right diameter to fit over the dowels. Thanks for all the inspiration anyway - mainly for using the very best quality screwdriver to get the magnet plate screws out… and also it was nice to use an 8mm socket to get that nut off ;)

@WhatUpTKHere

Жыл бұрын

Great info! Glad you found the video useful :D

@alexshepherd

Жыл бұрын

@@WhatUpTKHere yep worked perfectly, I actually used some 8mm (outside diameter) plastic tubing in the end - glad I found my best-quality screwdriver, as those magnet plate screws were very tight and I would have chewed them :)

@udb23

11 ай бұрын

Thanks a lot. Helped restoring a 30 years old Quantum S40.

Going to go out on a limb and suggest a set of JIS (Japanese Industrial Standard) bits. Much less likely to cam out, and may be the actual spec for those screws.

@WhatUpTKHere

8 жыл бұрын

+Bryan Spiegel Dude, they look awesome. I'm gonna have to get myself a set of those and try them out.

If you want a good bumper, maybe AC quality (the green ones) o-rings stacked on the post would work.

@WhatUpTKHere

8 жыл бұрын

Yeah, someone over on Hackaday recommended Viton for long term stability. Would be an easy install too.

Thanks my friend very nice video

@WhatUpTKHere

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you for watching!

I just fixed my drive like this ! I was lucky : no drilling, and just one piece of rubber to replace. I removed the big part of the old rubber with tissues, and dissolved the rest with acetone (wich worked pretty good), and replaced it with adhesive cotton bandage (the one supposedly used for sportives). I had aquarium tubes too, but they were too large or too thin. And now i don't have to open my Mac to boot it up anymore !

@WhatUpTKHere

6 жыл бұрын

Nice job :D

Great job!

@WhatUpTKHere

4 жыл бұрын

Thanks! Whatcha working on lately?

@TheRetroStuffGuy

4 жыл бұрын

@@WhatUpTKHere Finishing up a vid on Ecto1, then a Commodore 64 tape player repair and then a Amstrad CPC464 repair....well that's the plan.

Cant believe this worked for my new vintage Macintosh LCIII

I just fixed mine without removing the metal bracket/magnet. I cut a long thin strip of clear packing tape. The thicker kind and inserted in between onto the rubber stop and then cut it to length. I then used a small screw driver to apply it all around the stop. What it does is isolate the bump stop with the tape, thus not allowing it to stick anymore! Works perfect now. And a quick easy job. I would really caution removing the heads from the platter. On another drive I killed it when I tried to do it like this...

@WhatUpTKHere

Жыл бұрын

That's a really great idea. I love it

Thanks for the video, I just attempted this last night and got it working and I quickly made a back up but sadly when I tried to do the fix the head slipped off the platter and I carefully put them back on and it hasn't worked since. The heads just try to go off and bang off the platter when It powers on. Arrggh

@WhatUpTKHere

Жыл бұрын

Damn. so close!

Nice repair! if only Quantum thought of that in the first place, but they would have probably realized nobody would be using a computer for more than 10-15 years anyway so they decided to go with the cheaper option, also I'd probably scan that drive to see if it has any bad sectors!

@WhatUpTKHere

8 жыл бұрын

+Sony Trinitron Cheers! Yeah, I wonder if they knew how that material fared over time or not. I should definitely run a scan; what's a good utility for that? Disk First Aid or?

@realgroovy24

8 жыл бұрын

TheKhakinator I tend to use the "Disks" tool in Ubuntu Linux, in older versions its called "disk utility"

@WhatUpTKHere

8 жыл бұрын

Ah yep. That's not gonna work for me 'cause I don't have any non-Macs with SCSI interfaces and all my Macs are 68k. :P See how I go haha.

@WhatUpTKHere

8 жыл бұрын

+TheKhakinator Super interestingly, I opened up a later model drive, a Quantum Fireball 500MB. That entirely does away with soft bump stops, replacing them with a solid plastic piece with a small amount of play. Much cleaner design. I may upload video of it later.

it's very exciting

Nice vid! I wonder if you could remove this gunk with some acetone without using pliers...

@WhatUpTKHere

8 жыл бұрын

I can't remember if I tried that or not! Could be good, you'd just want to be super careful not to get it on any plastic components that it could possibly damage.

Silicone rubber tubing (if there is such a thing) instead of that rubbery gunk?

I do have an idea as it happens. What about making a glove box with filtered air to work on these things in. I'm not sure what it would take to make it good enough but it's an interesting problem. I shall be ruminating all week on this.

@WhatUpTKHere

8 жыл бұрын

That would be a pretty good way to do it. Perhaps modifying an aquarium would be a good starting point, so one wouldn't have to start from scratch.

@WhatUpTKHere

8 жыл бұрын

I love when people homebrew gear that normally costs thousands of dollars.

@Wok_Agenda

2 жыл бұрын

plexy glass and long gloves ?

How about sucking the flakes with a vacuum cleaner while drilling? I've got one Quantum ProDrive LPS 105S that stopped working yesterday, spins nicely but no head movement is heard, doesn't identify with any size in Windows (using a SCSI controller) - the other five drives I have show up nicely. So I'm considering this method...

@e5frog

7 жыл бұрын

It was indeed goo there, I wonder how my other Quantum drives are... better backup ASAP. Currently looking for replacement bump material, I'm starting to lean towards electrical tape and finish with some shrink tubing to get to the circa 8.3mm diameter. Acetone dissolves the black goo quite well. Found a bag of red O-rings that I have used under the keyboard keycaps... will use them for now... Measurements are pretty good, three of them on each stop.

@e5frog

7 жыл бұрын

Replacing the black goo didn't fix my disk though, tried swapping logic card, no improvement either. Don't remember what was on the disk, I may not miss it. ;-) After swapping logic board back and forth I did get some life in it - when running with case open, made a bit backup - so almost perfect result - thanks!

My 40mb Macintosh drive wasn’t working but I opened it using this tutorial and tried booting it with the cover off and now it works fine! I put the cover back on and it continues to work. Not sure what happened there.

@WhatUpTKHere

Жыл бұрын

Nice! Maybe dislodged something. Good luck - back up the drive ASAP!

I saw that you mentioned you breaking one of the other drives? Could I buy the circuit board of the broken one off you? I accidentally burned mine by doing something dumb.

@WhatUpTKHere

8 жыл бұрын

I would totally love to hook you up but unfortunately I think I sold the old drives to someone else last year! If I come across one in the junkbox sometime, I'll let you know (Y)

@junhawng

8 жыл бұрын

+TK alright, thank you.

Stuck screws like that you can use a rubber band over the tip of the screwdriver and unscrew. Works on stripped screws too. Dremel would have been my next recommendation ;o) I have done this a couple of times for data recovery from old drives that end users stored data on. You can also try putting the drive in a couple of freezer bags, freezing it for a few hours then run the drive to recover data. After the cover is removed the drive will still work but it is recommended to be replaced as dust , moisture and particulate accumulate on the platter disks which eventually will cause the head to scratch the surface of the disk. I have used canned air when have had to clean out the disk after removing the case.

@WhatUpTKHere

8 жыл бұрын

Nice couple of tips there. not sure why I didn't think to use the compressed air! Definitely would be a good idea to replace the disk for long term use but as I'm not doing anything particularly important on the old Macs I am not too worried about data loss.

I ended up myself not to put any bumper, should I be worried of that?

@WhatUpTKHere

3 жыл бұрын

See how you go but don't ever rely on the stability of a drive that has been opened

Perhaps you could stick a single layer of some tape like insulation tape around the perimeter of the rubber. Less mess and probably simpler. Or maybe replace all the rubber with insulation tape wrapped around many times, maybe glued down on the outer edge (to prevent unravelling).

@WhatUpTKHere

8 жыл бұрын

+Callum Aitchison In some cases that could work. However, I have had some of these drives where the bump stops are fully liquid. Any attempt to wrap them would simply spread the goop around. Even on this drive it'd be marginal. And as the material continues to degrade the tape's not going to hold up. As you say, wrapping the posts themselves with tape after removing the rubber could be a good solution.

@bartomiejmenicki9188

8 жыл бұрын

I thought exactly the same thing. Kapton tape should be the best choice. With two pairs of tweezers you could wrap goo without any dismantlement except removing drive's cover. About these uncooperative screws - they're probably glued by Loctite Threadlocker compound or similar stuff. There is simple trick to remove them without using excessive force. You have to heat bolt to about 300-350 degree Celcius by soldering iron, then unscrew it by cooled (in ice for example) screwdriver. Cold tool is necessary to cool and shrink back expanded hot bolt while glue is still melted. You also could heat part where bolt is screwed in but in most cases that's more risky option.

@WhatUpTKHere

8 жыл бұрын

+Bartłomiej Mełnicki interesting tip for dealing with threadlocker! None is used on these drives as far as I've seen however, I reckon that'd be messier than the manufacturers would like. Instead they just torque the screws down hard.

@bartomiejmenicki9188

8 жыл бұрын

+TheKhakinator There could be little amount of transparent threadlocker. That stuff triggers its polymerization in presence of metal with no release of any byproducts so there's no risk of contamination. In any case hot-nut-cold-bolt trick helps a lot.

@WhatUpTKHere

8 жыл бұрын

+Bartłomiej Mełnicki Interesting, I'm not familiar with such a thing. Research time!

I would have left the rubbers on there but put something around them to prevent sticking.

@WhatUpTKHere

5 жыл бұрын

Also good!

Erm... (Cough, cough) Clean room

@WhatUpTKHere

8 жыл бұрын

+Duncan Gunn If I was making any serious attempt at data recovery, for sure.

@kirishima638

8 жыл бұрын

+Duncan Gunn I've recovered several drives like this. There's no need for a clean room, just avoid touching the platters to getting moisture on them.

Hey you caution about not sneezing on these mechanisms. Fingerprints will ruin them too, I say you put your hand over the platters. :-)

@WhatUpTKHere

2 жыл бұрын

Yeeee clean room is best

So, is the drive still working?

@WhatUpTKHere

7 ай бұрын

Alas I sold all my macs in 2016

fuel injector o rings would make good bumpers!

@WhatUpTKHere

6 жыл бұрын

Greg Winfield ha, yes!

@psyolent.

6 жыл бұрын

those bloody things last forever mate. thinking vn commodore type :) by your accent i reckon you know what that is :D

@WhatUpTKHere

6 жыл бұрын

Greg Winfield ahahaha bloody oath mate! what you're saying is I should fill the drive with petrol and put a few more k's on 'er, reading ya loud and clear ;)

the case screws probably fell on the floor :)

Why not just wrap the black grommet thing with teflon tape?

@WhatUpTKHere

3 жыл бұрын

You could definitely try! when it goes gooey though it has almost no structural integrity left

@james_lockman

3 жыл бұрын

@@WhatUpTKHere Solid. I was thinking that while it is gooey, it does snap back to shape once it releases the head. It is designed as a "low bounce" stop, made from something like polynorbornene. It has almost zero coefficient of restitution, so when things hit it (like a fast moving drive head), they just stop dead. However (and this is interesting...), if you make it cold, it becomes hard like a rock. Maybe this is why most hard drives have operating temps over 0°C?

Should've watched this video more carefully before going for it myself. Just literally broke the tip off both my T8 bits trying to get that screw over the drive head off.

@zzzae

4 жыл бұрын

Not that it's helping... spent half an hour assaulting this nut with everything I've got but it hasn't budged a nanometer. i.imgur.com/GmmUBqS.jpg

@zzzae

4 жыл бұрын

OK, got it open finally... only to find that the bumpers look perfectly fine. Put a bit of masking tape on them anyway. Drive still isn't working though. It spins, and the drive head moves once, but only once, upon booting, and the Mac isn't recognizing it in any way.

@WhatUpTKHere

4 жыл бұрын

Ah, dang! Is your SCSI terminated properly?

a dremel creates bits of metal too. yeah use the drill heh heh

take a small drill bit and drill a small hole and use an easy out? :)

@WhatUpTKHere

Жыл бұрын

Good advice!

Material that lasts 50 years for the bumpers should be the least of anyone's worries. Every old hard drives are gonna stop working long before that. Integrated circuits failing, ROMs failing, causing firmware to go extinct because no one will have backed it up, negative cylinders getting damaged making the drive inoperational....

you have to use a JIS Screwdriver to properly take these apart, or you will strip the screws which is what happened to you.

@WhatUpTKHere

3 жыл бұрын

I want a set for my Miata too!

13:57 and it's blatantly apparent you do not like to have to wash your hands! lol

@WhatUpTKHere

2 жыл бұрын

Haha I did not do this job as cleanly as I should have

@jeffstack4217

2 жыл бұрын

@@WhatUpTKHere hey you know, a friend and I were laughing about aside from the information regarding this repair, EVERYTHING else was God aweful wrong! LoL But in the end, we appreciated the information and the efforts. It actually shed light on why the old trick of freezing your hard drives would get them working long enough for you to pull information from, so it was informative for sure.

take the screw stub out with vise grips

@WhatUpTKHere

7 ай бұрын

Good idea

hold your drill straight on.

@WhatUpTKHere

Жыл бұрын

good advice.

7:37 OMG! -_-

@WhatUpTKHere

4 жыл бұрын

Hahah

16:28 OH FU--

@WhatUpTKHere

4 жыл бұрын

Ahahah

@cdos9186

4 жыл бұрын

@@WhatUpTKHere I thought that was the end of the drive once that happened, but you did it more than once and I am shocked it still worked because allegedly once the heads touch each other, the heads are toast.

dont even think about fixing a hard drive yourself. YOU NEED A CLEAN ROOM

@WhatUpTKHere

7 жыл бұрын

for genuine data recovery, yes - use a clean room, and proper techniques. for a 30 year old machine you're repairing for fun, have at it!

@joelavcoco

3 жыл бұрын

@@WhatUpTKHere Exactly. If the only viable alternative is to throw it away, then what do you possibly have to lose?