Thanks for watching! We’ve covered a lot about climate change, and not all the news is bad. For more of the policy solutions and innovations that can help save our planet, watch more coverage in our playlist here: kzread.info/head/PLJ8cMiYb3G5dR1opfCsg8JmZSToyAWR5h

@oriolopocholo

Жыл бұрын

Not mentioning hydrogen in this video is strange

@Daniel-Strain

Жыл бұрын

How about build gyms all over the country, where every single exercise machine generates power. Would be a way to convert the energy in food back to energy for the grid, while getting in shape lol.

@matthiasknutzen6061

Жыл бұрын

​@@oriolopocholo vox thinks it's efficiency is too bad perhaps although they mentioned heat storage roundtrip on that is comparable or worse i believe 🤔

@kimabg

Жыл бұрын

Using nuclear energy instead of fossil fuels might eliminate the need for extreme energy storage infrastructure. And since it has no emissions and requires very little resources per generated unit of energy it would benefit both the environment and climate.

@oriolopocholo

Жыл бұрын

@@matthiasknutzen6061 They seem to have some sort of agenda against hydrogen. The fact that they have literally not mentioned it when it's a core player in electricity storage in the future is just bizarre

People always argue that this or that will be the solution to any given problem but in the end it's often a combination of many that solves it.

@cuyohistoriador2858

Жыл бұрын

You are 100% right

@toyotaprius79

Жыл бұрын

And most often, it's the free market that stops solutions in its tracks while fossil fuels recieve decades upon decades of incentives.

@haifutter4166

Жыл бұрын

​@@toyotaprius79 Not now. Solar and Wind are allready so cheap, that fossil fuels can't compete with it. When the new Na-Ion batteries enter the market, people WILL buy them for their home energystorage, which can be charged with windenergy in the night, which makes fossilfuels even more unattractive. This will push renewables and the longtermstorage solutions together. Nontheless I think that the gravity vault will definitely fail, because it's so flawed. Storing potential energy in mass only makes sense on massive scales. Lifting CONCRETE-weighst a few meters with expensive cranes wont do it.

@lourencovieira5424

Жыл бұрын

absolutely, wind+solar+hydro+nuclear= a fully efficient grid pretty much

@daviddj1406

Жыл бұрын

​@@lourencovieira5424 You forget geothermal energy

Energy vault is a greenwash with little potential, pumped hydro is really one of the few methods of mass storage we have

@brianrcVids

Жыл бұрын

Pumped hydro isn't ideal either. More and more studies are pointing to concerning amounts of methane emissions coming from large water reservoirs. There are lots of other battery options coming down the pike though. Batteries (in their different forms) are the way.

@gorg8882

Жыл бұрын

@@brianrcVids I never said "ideal" now can I get a link to those studies?

@hurrdurrmurrgurr

Жыл бұрын

@@brianrcVids Pumped hydro isn't creating water it's storing existing water which would have been creating the same emissions.

@TomMS

Жыл бұрын

@@gorg8882 This claim does appear to be reputable, but the comment of it being "concerning" is a bit distorting. This is one of several papers: "Hydropower's Biogenic Carbon Footprint" from Plos One. Interestingly, hydrostorage has larger emissions than hydropower because the water is still and bacteria and algae can grow. That said, the greenhouse gas emissions from fossil fuels are still several times greater per unit power, and there are ways to mitigate the methane emissions. For example, you could keep it away from agricultural areas in order to prevent runoff and algae blooms, and you can maintain good water levels so that it isn't too shallow anywhere (apparently this matters!).

@haifutter4166

Жыл бұрын

​​​@@brianrcVids I don't think batteries will play a major role. Storing renewable energy in ammonia, heatbatteries and many other ways will be way more scalable for massive storage than a battery. Pumped hydro will keep it's place but will be complemented by new technologies. Maybe even undersee compressed air storage, but definitely not by the gravity vault.

That rust/Iron solution is actually amazing and the prototype they've installed in a Dutch brewery is doing rather well. Part of what makes the Rust/Iron cycle energy potential is that a) it's very clean when it burns and b) the base Iron is recyclable over and over. Great for boilers or fast to ramp up energy needs.

@magg93

3 ай бұрын

very interesting technology. Going to do some further investigation for my research project in SmartGrid technology. Do you have any suggestions for where I can get more information?

Energy vault comes with too many problems and little benefit. It’s a showpiece, which is why none have been seriously considered.

@TH-lu9du

Жыл бұрын

You mean energy storage in general?

@iamadit8863

Жыл бұрын

Yea ofc. But when the earth start changing everyone start to pay attention lol

@toyotaprius79

Жыл бұрын

It's a venture capital

@haifutter4166

Жыл бұрын

​​@@TH-lu9du No. That project is seriosly flawed. There are many reasons why we manly use fluids for storing potential kinetic energy. Only other interesting concept I've seen so far is undersee air storage, which is pumped storaged hydro but inverted.

@TH-lu9du

Жыл бұрын

​@@haifutter4166 ah the company behind the concrete gravity idea. Sorry, I wasn't paying attention. Makes sense after I re-watched the video. "Energy vault" is such a generic nondescript name LOL.

Thank you for this informative and thought-provoking segment. Had no idea that we had other options besides battery for storage. Power to the science and scientists! True superheroes of our time.

@clickres5872

Жыл бұрын

i hat eyou

@eclipsenow5431

Жыл бұрын

Now we have sodium batteries. Sea salt. We'll never run out! Lithium gives the longest range for EV's, but they're even using sodium for some shorter range but vastly CHEAPER EV's. But sodium batteries should be there for about 2 hours for each city, after that we need off-river pumped hydro for 2 days for each city. Overbuild your renewables for the worst weeks in winter. DONE!

@kindlin

Жыл бұрын

I guess I found the target for this video. I found the title clickbaity and annoying. It's just a summary of the top 5 ways to store energy, which is interesting, but nothing ground breaking in any way at all.

@ismailnyeyusof3520

4 ай бұрын

All energy storage systems are batteries. They differ from each other only in terms of the materials used.

Energy vault is enormously expensive and completely unworkable. The mined storage method is basically the same as pumped hydro.

@TheMrDeathpunch

Жыл бұрын

Pumped hydro is a great solution but only works in terrain that supports it. I imagine mined storage would work in more places

This same thing can also be done with compressed air in salt caverns. I think it’s called CAES, compressed air energy storage.

@toyotaprius79

Жыл бұрын

And flywheels, and molten/redox and flow batteries

@Mesh17i82

Жыл бұрын

Or hydrogen

@toyotaprius79

Жыл бұрын

@@Mesh17i82 that's the horse that oil companies are betting all odds on

@Mesh17i82

Жыл бұрын

@@toyotaprius79 if they spend Billions on it. Let‘s go

This unironically feels like an add for greenwashed energy vault products that don't work and have never worked

@oriolopocholo

Жыл бұрын

Also while not even mentioning hydrogen which has 100s of MW scale plants being built

@anthonyjones7264

Жыл бұрын

Green energy is a scam. It's not about the planet or about energy. The people that complain the most about the environment are the ones that do the most destruction to it.

There is another method being tested in Germany and that is using Hydrogen: They simply use the excess energy produced to perform electrolysis and split water into Hydrogen and Oxygen and storing it, during peak energy consumption they use the stored hydrogen fuel to generate power again.

@Shawn_M

Жыл бұрын

That seems like a great solution. The best of all since water is everywhere. How's the efficiency? Seems like it would be ok since hydrogen and oxygen can both be burned.

@rodrigomassad

Жыл бұрын

I was searching in the comments whether someone would say about GREEN hydrogen. For sure it supposed to be mentioned in the video.

Outside of those non-scalable storage solutions, there's also the option of using large-scale low-carbon power sources like nuclear and (where applicable) regular hydro.

@Shawn_M

Жыл бұрын

Nuclear definitely should be considered. I heard of developments in small scale reactors that don't require the massive construction of full scale plants. Reactors closer to the size of a cargo container

@BhargavKrishnaReddy79

Жыл бұрын

This video is about energy storage. Not creation. Nuclear can replace fossil fuels but we still need a store of energy. And at the end of the day nuclear fusion or fission still needs water, turbines and efficient electric grid

@fadli_1577

Жыл бұрын

​@@BhargavKrishnaReddy79 you also miss the point. Nuclear and hydro can work constantly for 24 hour. Meanwhile renewable sources like solar can't create energy during night (so it's need energy storage) and wind also don't have constant energy for 24 hours (so it's also need energy storage)

@axel6269

Жыл бұрын

@@BhargavKrishnaReddy79 I'd say it is very much relevant, actually, since the inclusion of baseload and dispatchable energy sources greatly reduce the quantity of storage required to alleviate production variation in a renewable-heavy grid. You won't need remotely as much storage to compensate for a week-long low in wind+solar power production if nuclear+hydro make up ~30% of your capacity.

@diegastdienuiestdoet

Жыл бұрын

Nuclear power stations are very expensive to build so to get a return on investment they are on as much as possible. So thats why they are not used as backup

Thanks Vox for highlighting the work scientists are doing to make batteries for grid energy storage. I'm a graduate chemical engineering student and we're currently working on finding viable electrodes for sodium-ion batteries, which would be much cheaper than the current lithium-ion ones.

Quidnet's idea seems to be much more realistic than Energy Vault's, it would take a comparable amount of engineering and would have less maintenance costs, since water doesn't erode like concrete does. And you don't have to reinvent the wheel here, it's just miniturisation of existing technology. Did I mention the CO_2 output of concrete production?

@szurketaltos2693

Жыл бұрын

Water doesn't erode but the infrastructure it's in does erode.

@wobblysauce

Жыл бұрын

It is about localisation… water you need gradient differences, just hanging weights, could be placed all over

@someguyyt8595

Жыл бұрын

@@szurketaltos2693 then build it underground?

@Valentin-oc5nh

Жыл бұрын

the same is done with air actually

@szurketaltos2693

Жыл бұрын

@@someguyyt8595 underground still requires infrastructure like pipes and coatings

Love these pieces. As this is something I'm keenly interested in, I was familiar with all of these methods, but seeing it packaged into such a clear and concise video is always a pleasure. Thank you.

What I love most about these videos is that it doesn’t just show the problem, it presents the solutions.

This is the more reason why we should and need to invest more in renewable. The more we use it, the more people (try to) find a way to make them cheaper to produce, store, and use.

@annekekramer3835

Жыл бұрын

Totally agree. I recently got solar panels, now I have a negative energy bill :-)

@goldmathshow

Жыл бұрын

Solar panels are very cheap, but the issue is storing the energy they produce. In my off-grid setup, too much excess energy gets wasted because I have to disconnect the panels during peak hours. Too much sunlight can damage the wires, components, and batteries.

Glad to see pumped hydro being talked about

@stefansauvageonwhat-a-twis1369

Жыл бұрын

same

@jmckendry84

Жыл бұрын

People have been talking about it for more than 100 years.

Surprised this didn't mention flow batteries. I'm not saying they are _the_ or even _a_ solution, just surprised they weren't mentioned, since just about everything else was.

Another option is to overproduce wind and solar and beef up transmission so that it excess in one area can be distributed to an area that has less at that moment.

@fixminer9797

Жыл бұрын

It can help to a certain degree, but it cannot replace storage entirely. Weather systems are very large so you'd need to move power vast distances to completely avoid adverse weather. If it's nighttime (no solar) and there is no wind, you might have to transport multiple countries worth of electrical energy across half a continent. Such transmission systems are not really economically feasible. And then there's the inefficiency of having that much overcapacity everywhere.

@kevinmbrooks

Жыл бұрын

@@fixminer9797 agreed. Another storage option not mentioned in this video is hydrogen electrolysis.

@fixminer9797

Жыл бұрын

@@kevinmbrooks Yeah, that seems rather promising and reasonably scalable. It's weird that they didn't even mention power-to-gas systems in the video.

@stevk5181

Жыл бұрын

​@Kevin Brooks the issue with H2 storage is efficiency. Electrolysis is currently too inefficient to make it economically viable unless the electric company is paying you to take the excess power.

@kevinmbrooks

Жыл бұрын

@@stevk5181 for what it's worth, the Volts podcast had an episode about developing and scaling up elecrolyzers recently.

Really interesting to see how and what way to store energy are being worked on

LFP (lithium iron phosphate) batteries are better than NMC (nickel manganese cobalt) batteries for home storage because of the following advantages: Longer lifespan Higher safety rating Lower cost Better performing in the winter

I didn't know about any of this solutions to storage energy, I feel a little bit of hope, thanks Vox!

I'm surprised tech like Vanadium Redox Flow Batteries (VRFB) and Eavor's geothermal storage didn't get mentioned. Eavor has made significant gains in geothermal without needing a volcanic fissure to work and without pressurizing underground wells. And VRFBs have been around for decades. Major installations are in use all over the world for grid storage.

@EvanKnightIsGood

Жыл бұрын

I was going to mention redox flow batteries too, thanks for bringing it up.

@LabGecko

Жыл бұрын

@@EvanKnightIsGood it should also be mentioned that the millions of expected energy drains fossil fuel fans scream about is actually an additional buffer. When the car (or whatever) is charged, the battery storage that charged it is still sitting there as a storage device, in every home that would cause the drain.

Great coverage of the challenges we're currently facing with energy! Very insightful of presenting what is being explored right now

Im proud of everyone rallying for nuclear energy & wish Vox would cover this(Cleo did but it was about shutdowns). Im studying nuclear engineering, ATOMS FOR PEACE is NONproliferation, clean electricity & heating, medicine, fusion, transportation, space exploration, research, proper waste disposal & recycling, teaching, etc. The experts of the field know best & have statistics & facts to support that it's one of the safest & most energy dense carbon-free energy sources that can reliably deliver power day and night, through every season, almost anywhere on earth, that has been proven to work on a large scale. To stop a problem as big as climate change we need all the help we can get, mass technological & sociopolitical change, because even a few degrees off from our ambitious climate goals is disastrous. Shutting down nuclear plants just replaces them with coal & gas, it needs to continue to be advanced with renewables

@forzer456

Жыл бұрын

Its sad people hate nuclear, we have had a good reliable renewable source of energy for decades but due to fearmongering it is sidelined. Yes the upfront cost is expensive but we need to see the long term gains and stop getting distracted by new shinny renewable projects.

@sirnikkel6746

Жыл бұрын

> NON proliferation why is proliferation such a bad thing that all pro nuclears have to go the line of non nukes

@Rysander1

Жыл бұрын

@@sirnikkel6746 because nuclear weapons proliferation increases the risk of accidents and intentional acts. At this point, only countries that have been able to learn from the accidents and near misses of the 20th century can really be trusted with this power. But you can absolutely be pro nukes and pro nonproliferation.

@sirnikkel6746

Жыл бұрын

@@Rysander1 YEY! NUKES FOR EVERYBODY! Each nation armed so it can't be trampled

@giovannirafael5351

Жыл бұрын

@@forzer456 Nuclear energy is not renewable and therefore can't be our long term answer. It's not a nuclear vs renewables. We should have both.

Pumped hydro doesn't need mountains. It can also be done on the sea floor. Another type of energy storage is liquid air. And I know I have heard of other types of energy storage as well. I like how this video shows some alternative ways to batteries to store energy, but I wish the list was a bit longer

Other options include Liquid Metal batteries and flywheel systems.

@toyotaprius79

Жыл бұрын

Just Have A Think has excellent videos on the topic

@toyotaprius79

Жыл бұрын

The very fact that a 100% fossil fuel grid up until recently is why such technologies aren't readily available because there wasn't a market for instantaneous energy storage - in contrast to gas peaker plants

Redox flow batteries will be a game changer

Fascinating techniques! I'd be interested to hear your take on other chemical methods of storage such as formic acid and amonia! As someone from the Netherlands, where we have little space and definitely no mountains, those techniques have been put forth as potential energy storage systems.

@lesnachristwinarso4104

Жыл бұрын

I believe the EU is investing so much in hydrogen tank

This video just proved why solar and wind energy is being pushed instead of nuclear energy. They still need fossil fuel as "backup power" during down times.

@bf0189

Жыл бұрын

There's nothing wrong with wind and solar energy but nuclear power should have been the primary source of clean electricity decades ago with those two helping nuclear.

@jpcool95480

Жыл бұрын

Nuclear is great but it has the opposite problem. You can't really ramp them up and down. They are designed for mostly constant output. So you can't turn them up or down. There will always be a gap to "fill" either excess energy you need to store, or something else to turn up to meet demand.

@alberts9781

Жыл бұрын

@@jpcool95480 True but at least the power output is consistent, so you don't need like a week of backup storage to prevent days long blackouts because there was a particularly low wind/cloudy week. I think that's the part we are missing, cool daily averaging and stuff is quite easy because the amount of power storage for just matching supply with demand over a day is much easier. But we forget that renewables are not consistent over the year at all, which means you need to average out the year. While with nuclear sure it's pretty inefficient to power up and down, but you can just over produce and waste the rest and be sure you have power, or you can average out the day demand, but you don't need backup power for a full week (or whatever level makes blackouts rare enough to be acceptable with renewables ) With renewables what we are seemingly doing is just over producing because the cost per unit is quite low, but then we still can't store it so we need fossil fuel permanently on the grid until such time as we have enough grid level storage to store on the level of multiple days worth of energy.

Your initial chart showed both wind and solar failing to meet total demand at any time of day. That being the case, you don't need any storage whatsoever. You can keep adding wind and solar until they meet demand at one time of day at least before storage makes sense. And even then, initially over capacity at some times of day might work out to be a cheaper option before adding much storage.

@gilian2587

Жыл бұрын

Let's say that you need a mountain's worth of material to build that renewable infrastructure that you describe for a nation. Then consider that both wind and solar generators meet the end of their useful life in about 15 to 20 years. It's not that it can't be done... but extractive mining for metals and concrete will need to be scaled up significantly. You'll still need energy storage or baseload power sources for meteorological events called anticyclonic gloom (very low wind, very low ground level incident sunlight). Europe tends to get 2-10 of these events per year which last 50-150 hours per year. This could be fully covered if you have about 1500 hours of energy storage on tap. If we use Germany as an example, in 2021 they used 569 TWh, or roughly 65 GW for their moment by moment average, and they'd need about 97.5 TWh of storage to cover that. Given that lithium ion batteries cost around $153/kWh, that would run them around $153,000,000,000/TWh or roughly $14.9 trillion every 10-15 years (this is the expected lifespan of a lithium ion battery). At a gdp of $4.26 trillion per year -- that would be one heck of a sacrifice. And this doesn't take into account the added cost of spontaneous self incineration events from lithium ion battery farms (and they DO happen distressingly frequently).

@TimothyWhiteheadzm

Жыл бұрын

@@gilian2587 I agree that lithium ion batteries are not suitable to supply full baseload power. But most nations will not run entirely on solar and wind. I am Zambian and we are nearly 100% hydro and will remain so for the foreseeable future. I live in South Africa which has lots of coal and some nuclear. Those are not going away instantly. They also have some pumped hydro and potential for more. My point was that until your solar and wind are a very significant part of your mix, storage is not so important and over capacity can be more economical initially than increasing storage. After all that is how most fossil fuel grids are run (over capacity with minimal storage). A common misunderstanding is that existing grids provide continuous reliable power whereas renewables do not. That is simply untrue. Renewables tend to have a daily and seasonal cycles but they are fairly predictable, whereas fossil fuels and nuclear have to be taken off line for maintenance or breakdowns so their cycles are different but still exist. They still need either over capacity or storage. As for 'a mountains worth of material' I really don't know what you are on about. Its almost like you didn't read my post but were complaining to someone else.

Very disappointed to see Energy Vault beeing presented as a legit Option for large scale energystorage. It cant beat the efficency of pumping water. proposing to build huge Watertowers to pump water up and down from would make more sense

@youtubewatcher4603

Жыл бұрын

Pumped hydro from watertowers is a terrible idea. But I 100% agree that it is still a better idea than energy vault.

the 24h demand/supply gap is fillable. The 365-day gap is a bigger problem, despite all these proposals.

I'm really intrigued by smart grid and dynamic load-type solutions - not a panacea, but part of the portfolio of options. For example, treating loads that don't need instantaneous power like water heaters and HVAC systems like on demand load dumps. Your water heater could be "charged up" during the day when renewable energy is most abundant. I'm also curious about incentive programs for getting residential battery storage more widely adopted. In that case, entire homes could be dynamic power loads, with the bonus that it buffers homes during power outages.

@rubic0n

Жыл бұрын

Using dynamic load signals to charge large numbers of EVs seems to be one of the best ways to store excess power using batteries we already have and need to charge. In that sense there's essentially no storage losses. California already has days when solar production exceeds demand and excess power is essentially wasted.

@pnwmeditations

Жыл бұрын

@@rubic0n Yes! I totally forgot about that. Very cool idea.

Hi Vox! Loved this quick update on potential storage solutions for renewalable energies. Bit of an odd question, but what is the song called you play in the outtro - last few seconds - ???? Many thanks!

we're gonna need all of the above, because there are a looooooooooot of people in this world who don't understand or support climate science and renewable energy, or are simply reliant on others to make the changes while they keep doing what they're doing.

EnergyDome, an italian company which uses CO2 and it's thermodynamic process of compression (when there's an energy surplus) and Rarefraction (when energy is needed in the grid) also seems to be really promising. They are building out pilot projects and a gridwide solution is also already in the planing I guess Undecided with Matt Ferell made a really good video to explain the Process and it's up- and Downsides

Thank you for addressing this!! This discussion was missing from the last video about solar panels (I get that it wasn’t supposed to be)

Thank you for making this video! It's very informative and gain my insight ❤

"If all you're doing is using gravity to work with you, you have a pretty 'massive' force of nature on your side." LOL 🤣

Installing more wind/solar would help too.

i’m going into chemical engineering with a focus in batteries for renewable energy! i’d love to learn more about the specific companies facilitating this research on different kinds of energy storage

This issue would be far less pressing if we'd just done the right thing and invested more in nuclear.

@TH-lu9du

Жыл бұрын

One problem is all nuclear waste is stored in "temporary" locations until we figure out an appropriate permanent location

@monhi64

Жыл бұрын

@@TH-lu9duI don’t see how that’s a big issue. We have plenty of space and nuclear waste is really compact. How many people have ever been hurt by nuclear waste, a comically low number compared to every energy source lower than healthy renewables too

Try adding the costs of all of that, including land cost grid expansion and extra materials and you quickly realise how expensive, in terms of cost, ecological devastation and additional emissions the renewables are in most cases! Yet there is proven clean method of creating heat and energy that is dismissed by many "environmentalists". Try guessing which one I have in mind...

When I heard pumped storage, it immediately clicked in my mind: low demand -> convert to PE -> convert to KE -> work. The rest of the video was still fun to watch though. It's fun to think about the different forms of energy storage of this type.

Thanks for this brief summary

Amazing video cadence lately! ❤

this is the antithesis of that Adam Something video

@caiden3396

Жыл бұрын

Which one?

This is why nuclear power is also very important! It is a reliable source that can be ramped up or down in conjunction with renewables to meet demand.

@cc_jmk

Жыл бұрын

AFAIR nuclear can't be so easily ramped up or down, but once it's built, it's a stupidly cheap way of getting a base load of electricity, helping the grid have higher surplusses when wind/solar pick up, and lower valleys when they don't; so you have more spare energy for storing it on the good times, and need less storage for the bad times.

@ltmbookworm

Жыл бұрын

@@cc_jmk Nuclear is very flexible! You can control the power output of the fission reaction, as well as the amount of steam that reaches the turbine. The department of energy has a good article on it.

@youtubewatcher4603

Жыл бұрын

@@ltmbookworm Nuclear reactors are "rampable." But the initial capital investment is so high, and the variable costs are so low, that operators want to operate as close to 100% as possible.

I would have thought that hydrogen production from electrolysis would have been possible to load follow excess grid demand, while also storing hydrogen for a fuel cell based peaker power source

The end is a bit unsatisfying, I expected.. more. But thanks for the explanation anyway. I don't understand, in the first place, why isn't it a way more important issue to increase wind and solar energy production in the first place up to the point where they significantly peak over the net consumption. Because only then it will be important to store the overproduction. There, my second thought that is barely talked about, is, couldn't this energy overshoot be used for carbon capture facilities? So we build as much solar and wind as we can, and in the same time build enough capacities of CCS plants that can run whenever there's a plus? Would be very pleased to get an answer (although I think the simple answer is - too expensive)

I also heard about compressed air battery storage that carves our huge cavities underground, pushes high pressure air into them and then releases the air when needed.

Great vid, makes me hopeful. didn't know about the rust or salt. a few nitpicks: 1) the graph in 0:28 is normally shown as the opposite, where the natural gas is on bottom and solar/wind on top. this is because natural gas and other hydrocarbons are consistent baseload primary power sources, while solar/wind is variable. 2) The map at 1:35 misses a lot of new deposits found in India this year. 3) Using solar/wind as a tool for hydrogen fuel cells (via water electrolyzers) is another promising energy storage opportunity

0:58 Just use water. Pump the water up(hill etc.) when there is abundance of energy. And let it go down and generate hydro energy when there is a demand for energy.

I wish there was more public awareness that lithium ion is not the be all end all. There are already widely available longer life variants for grid storage in the likes of Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries that do away with cobalt, and sodium ion batteries that do away with the lithium. This should get more coverage.

Glad you presented solutions

These solutions have a lot of potential.

Ready for the graphs and animations

There are a few other cool solutions for storing energy. You have old timey flywheels that you spin up, liquid air storage where you cool air and later let it heat up to expand and spin turbines, you could have some green hydrogen production, I think some people even tried storing electricity in sueprconductive coils. I guess another solution would be to link up a good deal of renewables and transmit it between places (although the US has a problem with its transmission grid, which is another topic). This could smooth out the peaks and valleys, especially if you're dealing with large land masses like the US, China or the like.

I immediately thought of Thomps from Mario when he started talking about releasing the concrete blocks from up high.

Very interesting! There cannot be a one-size-fits-all solution. Instead local adaptation of what is best economically and also in terms of energy efficiency and environmental impact is what is needed.

I'm really interested in a concept where rail cars are moved up an incline with a motor/generator and allowed to roll down to produce power when needed. Very scalable. Imagine hundreds of cars on dozens of tracks

@alien9279

11 ай бұрын

Just use water man. Don't need to reinvent the wheel lol

@Shawn_M

11 ай бұрын

There just aren't enough places where water is an option. Obviously

Nice tutorial! ill use this on my civilization, i hope best of luck

Hi @Vox - no mention of Hydrogen Energy? (It's been researched a lot to store renewable energy)

Dragonfly Energy just patented a scalable solid state battery method. This is going to be game changer for power storage.

There are also seasonal variations that affect solar and wind. Energy from the sun is greater in summer, and lower in winter. The wind has seasonal characteristics too. Are more storage solutions or different storage solutions required for this?

Norwegian company TechnipFMC is developing the DeepPurple system for storing excess energy from wind farms as hydrogen. I was lucky enough to see the prototype in action and i dear say it looks promising!

It’s not discussed in this video, but I’m interested to see to what extent green hydrogen can be an energy storage solution. I know it’s not very efficient as of now.

"we don't a mountain everywhere" Sierra Nevada: am i joke to you?

Energy vault seems like a cool idea until you realize that you'll need to release massive amounts of co2 into the atmosphere in order to make all those concrete blocks.

@ritvikagarwal1156

Жыл бұрын

Maybe blocks should be made of waste products. That way waste also gets utilised and we have less recycling problem.

We have that hydro power one in the UK in Wales but only as a sort of backup power option for if there's a very big power outage across the country (rare). But every winter it makes the news when our tabloids roll out the usual fear mongering 'national power outages expected' headlines but we never use it.

Very interested in energy storage

Would it possible to use magnets to spin creating more kinetic energy? Just release them when demand is high and just store excess or some energy in batteries to get the magnets to spin again when needed. Like keeping some of the power to repower the magnets to generate more power by spinning them fast enough to create more captured kinetic energy then used to get them spinning at the start of the process to turn a turbine?

@Simon-dm8zv

Жыл бұрын

That would be considered perpetual motion and is not possible.

We need to move towards nuclear energy that doesn't require energy storage and make it our main source of power. Then support it with renewables in areas where environmental and geographical conditions are favorable.

@ltmbookworm

Жыл бұрын

Agreed! It’s safe and clean power that we aren’t yet fully utilizing.

5 minutes? Come on. This is such a tease. I wanted so much more

💎🏆 Great insightful video 🏆💎

3:25 It is much more effective to use old mines. There you just have to bring in some new machinery.

Never knew that potential energy could be used that way! To me, it was just a textbook thing we learned about enegy in middle school

Not mentioned: instead of building solar arrays facing south which generally collects the most amount of energy, but peaks around solar noon, face panels east or west to collect morning or evening sun. Engineers know this, just not mentioned in the video.

How much can these systems be scaled up to make them viable? What size footprint would say the gravity brick system require per person?

The lithium reserve map is kinda off there is a huge reserve in j & k it ll take years to mine it but it's there

Yes we need a combination of solutions to solve the energy storage problem. Geothermal is stable and constant form of heat/ power supply. Also give 100% income tax credit on battery storage at home coupled with solar panels.

One additional promising storage is compressed air with a heat storage combined. The pressurisation creates heat, the generator using compressed air later needs heat. China build the largest one yet some month ago. But long term heat storage in general(not only for electricity) is very very important. Look up salt solutions(NaOH), crystallisation(PCM) and solid sorption(nano sponge like materials). Compressed air/gravitational storage can also be done in the water, you reverse the materials and pump air down into a storage in the sea instead of water up a hill.

I reckon concerns about peak demand will mitigate somewhat as more and more people work from home. I definitely don't have a personal peak in usage in the morning and evening. Sure a bit less over night when I'm sleeping (although that's also when I crank up my AC the most, so maybe it's offset anyway), but pretty steady from the time I wake up until the time I go to bed. I don't use more/fewer lights or electronics at different times of day, and I might do laundry or run the dishwasher literally at any hour I'm awake.

@rosscollinswilliams

Жыл бұрын

I think you are demonstrating one of the great myths of consumption. Your personal peak usage includes all the users who are providing you with services. I am not sure there is any way to realistically evaluate your personal peak usage. I don't see why working from home would automatically change peak electrical use.

@NovelNovelist

Жыл бұрын

@@rosscollinswilliams I"m sorry, I don't believe I follow you. When you say all the users who are providing me services, what do you mean exactly? The electrical company? I'm the only one around the house using power during the day and the amount I use is fairly consistent with only occasional spikes for things like doing laundry or running the dishwasher, which occur at random, irregular times and not as part of a daily pattern. The reason working from home might eliminate/change peak electrical use is because people have more freedom and flexibility to do stuff throughout the day instead of cramming many/most high electrical use activities into an hour or two before work and an hour or two after work.

@retiefjoubert55

Жыл бұрын

But the large industries and power consumers are not going that. No-one is running a smelter or boiler or factory from home.

we are not there yet when in comes to storing huge amount of energy. but hopefully we'll get there soon.

Earlier when these methods were there, they war criticised as far fetched and now the frequency of reputed channels reporting on this new tech increases. We can say they have improved everyone's perception

💡Hydrogen to use the power of the sun in winter.

I spent 9 weeks ,not even joking, for my science fair which was yesterday and VOX comes out with this

There are many solutions to energy storage. None of them are easy at the scale necessary, but it is possible to build any one or more technologies to suit the need. To me, it just comes down to which one is going to be the cheapest to deploy at scale. Lithium is around, structure to make pumped hydro and gravity batteries are all potentially viable, but so are vertical axis wind turbines. You just don’t see any vertical axis wind turbines built, and for good reason, they are just not as good as their more popular competition

Another potential solution will be eletric vehicles! We will have millions of bateries in cars that most of the time are parked. So we could use them to power our grids when needed as a virtual gigantic battery (for instance cars when parked at the workplace could recharge their batteries during the day when solar energy is the highest, and then at the night part of that energy could then be sold to the grid).

@grantgeorgia7168

Жыл бұрын

Back of the envelope calc shows that it wouldn't even provide a day's worth of power -- when, ideally, there needs to be a minimum of 1-2 weeks of storage to account for periods of lower than average solar/wind. Assume 8M vehicles with an average capacity of 100kWh. Now assume you'd have 70% available to discharge at night (because nothing is ever ideally 100%). Now use an average future California energy demand of 40GW: (8M x 100kWh) / 1,000 = 800GWh 0.7 x 800GWh = 560GWh 560GWh / 40GW = 14 hours Sodium-ion grid-scale batteries should've been discussed as they have the potential to be significantly cheaper than lithium-ion batteries along with a nearly inexhaustible supply of sodium. Nuclear and advanced geothermal should also be on the table. The cost of nuclear could go down significantly if done at scale and not as one-off projects (e.g. Vogtle in Georgia).

We should have been working on this 30 year ago...

These are great solutions.

Potential energy is such a cool solution

The main problem is, we basically need to start building this storage now.

Vanadium flow batteries didnt get a mention...?😊

Great video! However, I'd like to point out that lithium-ion batteries are not entirely unsuitable for grid-scale storage. Take the Hornsdale Power Reserve in South Australia, for example. It uses a grid-scale lithium-ion battery system to store and dispatch energy, effectively supporting the grid during peak demand periods. While the video does mention the limitations of lithium-ion batteries, it's worth noting that they're already being used in some instances for grid-scale energy storage.

I've heard CEO of Energy Vault speak few times. Robert Piconi is an extremely intelligent guy, but I do question the physics and overall value provided to the grid. I think the future of energy storage could be compressed hydrogen.

Change a bit the way you see it: when it's peak solar production in US, it's peak demand somewhere else in the world and vice versa. You just need a better grid to move electricity (from one continent to another). And still some storage, but much less...

Another potential type are flow batteries- basically a chemical battery where there's two components two the electrolyte, each stored in massive tanks. Flowing the the components past each other with a membrane between them can either be used to store or produce electricity.

Now do a video on transmission and switching stations.