Huge shoutout to the guys at Limey Bikes for letting me bother them all afternoon! Check them out here: chris-kelland.squarespace.com/#about Do y'all want more spotlights on weird older bikes?

@Legotruck82

12 күн бұрын

Yes please. Modern reviews etc are everywhere, there isn't a HUGE amount of looking at older stuff, although the "bart" channel does some neat history stuff

@realkingtv7885

12 күн бұрын

As long as it doesn't involve your adventure bike and sport bike bashing

@Errol.C-nz

12 күн бұрын

BS .. you're fing weird..

@spitescorner

12 күн бұрын

@@realkingtv7885 Don't know what you're talking about. I only own sport bikes and adventure bikes.

After 2 years Spite finally isn't the only square in his videos! 😂

@jayluper9523

13 күн бұрын

Holy moly it's been 2 years???

@Wild-Wood

12 күн бұрын

​@@jayluper9523That's crazy that it's already been 2 years 🤯

My dad had one of these in the 1950's in England when they were just transport, not collectables lol. He said it was too heavy, unreliable and they always overheat. He also said that people used to take the head off and modify it so the head could go on backward with the carbs at the front, to get more cool air in it. He sold it after a short while and generally preferred his single cyl bikes like the red hunter, matchless and 500cc Vincents he owned.

@dirkdiggler5164

11 күн бұрын

This may be a dumb question, but how did he know when it was overheated ?

@chrishart8548

11 күн бұрын

​@@dirkdiggler5164 the rpm on tick over would increase. The clutch becomes very grabby. You can feel the heat radiating. And it smells like hot metal and oil

@notsorare

7 күн бұрын

The early version was prone to overheating due mainly to the rear exhausts going into the front pipe instead of one pipe per cylinder The rear cylinders didn’t get much cooling and overheated

@wizrom3046

7 күн бұрын

@@dirkdiggler5164 it starts running like crap, and you can hear pinging (detonation) when accelerating. Plus what he said above. 👍 They all do it, but yeah the early models were worse.

@davecooper3238

3 күн бұрын

@@wizrom3046Mr late father said the same things about the square 4. He ran one with sidecar for a while.

I know 2 people in the UK that own Square Fours. I’ve ridden both. Both are still owned by the children of the original owners from new. Both of original buyers were RAF pilots during WWII.

Matchless made the Silverhawk, an OHC V4 in the 30's.

"If you weren't particularly attached to your flesh vessel." Spite man, you gotta watch Psychomania. It's a silly action horror comedy from way back in the day about immortal bikers hitting "the ton" (100 mph).

In 1963 my late wife wanted to have a sports sidecar so as i had an Ariel Red Hunter 350cc it meant changing the bike as well. When we spotted the German Steib sports sidecar that the wife wanted I looked at a Squarial as they were nicknamed but the dealer advised against it saying the rear cylinders would badly overheat with the sidecar so advised the BSA 650cc flash with rear plunger suspension instead. We clocked up quite a few thou miles around the UK and Scotland until our son was born in 1968 with no troubles whatsoever. except a couple of replacement chains

Some time in the 1990's I went a motorcycle show in Hammondsport, NY at the Glen Curtis museum (he was into motorcycles as well as airplanes). There were FOUR Ariel Square Fours at the show. Three of them were ridden to the show.

Sorry, but the Brough was the Rolls Royce of motorcycles and the 350cc Velocette won the IOM TT many times in the late 30's, also in 61 a Velocette ran for 24 hours at over 100mph average which is still the current record for a 500

Thanks for showing this. My dad had one in the 50s and also a Sunbeam S7, which was like half a Square Four with one cylinder in front of the other. Both suffered from overheating rear cylinders but, despite all its faults, dad said the Ariel was probably his favourite bike. The only other mainstream square four I can think of is the Suzuki RG500 - and that's a completely different animal!

That sound bought back memories, going up a motorway at the speed limit and having an Aerial go past like we were parked.

The Healey Sqaure four from the early 70's used the Aerial motor and was a gem. Only 28 made unfortunately and I don't have one but have always wanted one.

@Rick-qf5de

2 күн бұрын

Remember Austin and Healey before Austin and Martin.... 😮

As a Brit, the Square Four is, along with the Brough Superior SS100 are two bikes that are right at the top of my Bucket List to ride. And yes, I can imagine the Square Four does not enjoy Texas weather; they suffered overheating problems in the UK, which is not famed for being particularly hot most of the time! And yes, I totally get the Limey Mechanic wanting one despite all the flaws. Such a random yet cool video Spite.

I'd never heard one running before, sort of like two smooth, old Triumph speed twins running side by side 👍🏻😎

If you don't count the rotary engines THE WIERDEST is actually the Brough Superior Golden Dream &, sadly, I am old enough to remember them actually being ridden to bike shows, not trailered there, although I never saw more than 3 at any one time. The Golden Dream was a Double Flat Twin, so think of 2 BMW flat twins stacked on top of each other & the two cranks were coupled with gears. They sounded VERY smooth. AFAIK there's only one Golden Dream left, hidden in a barn in Wales, or so the rumor goes. As for rear brake on the left, shifter on the right, this was due to the side of the road that Brits drove on & the popularity of sidecars. A left side rear brake means you can press the sidecar wheel brake at the same time.

It's a nice looking bike and a interesting concept, also have to say that i am impressed that it started right away with just one kick. It shows the condition it's in which must be really good.

The pipes almost looked like it clipped into the cylinder. Thanks for the close up to confirm that I'm not crazy.

I did see one of these at a gas station I used to deal with back in the late 60s .

In 1977 I had the chance to buy a non running Square Four for $500. I had never heard of them and was told that they had issues with overheating, so I passed on it for a Triumph that ran. I don't regret that choice. I loved the Bonneville, while viewing it as a bike to learn on until I could get a Harley. I wish I still had it though.

My dad was a big Aeriel fan, and had both a square 4 and a red hunter. Once us kids were born, he got a Panther 120, 650 single, and a double adult sidecar. For a short time, he even had a job as sidecar salesman.

theres a square 4 in a featherbed frame sitting at an antique store not far from where i live, too bad its going for somewhere in the $40+ k range. :( absolutely gorgeous machine.

Always loved the Square Four, would love to own one someday and an NH from the mid-50s! Was surprised to see this on your channel, Spite! More vintage stuff would be excellent!

I had a 1952 model, first registered in 1951 because it had appeared on the stand at the Earls Court Mototcycle Show in 1951, with a sidecar attached (so slightly lower geared; it would only have reached 95mph or so, whereas the normal gearing would have given 103 to 105, IF you were unkind enough to flog it that hard.) I bought it from the second owner in 1968 or 69, and sold it when I was going to get married in 1971. I thought I had to settle down and give up the bike. Sold it for £70 (about $150 at 1971 exchange rates, I think.) I still have to avoid thinking about it too much or it gets really sad. On the 1952 model the rear two cylinder exhausts came forward through the engine and emerged from the front of the head already merged with the front cylinders, so you only saw the two pipes; and for mine, in the sidecar setup, those two exhausts were siamesed into one, which ran down the right hand side of the bike as a single exhaust and silencer. It made the sound all the more special; very even four-cylinder. It ran VERY smooth and it would pull evenly from 10mph in top gear. Tremendous torque, great to ride. Once you were moving, the weight was unimportant. The rear two cylinders did overheat, though. It really needed to be water-cooled. I thought the one in your video sounded a little rough, but perhaps that's just the difference of having two exhausts. The experience was probably closest, today, to a Triumph Rocket III. Nothing else in those days had 1,000cc engines. (Except for the big Vincents and the Brough; but those were just freaky.)

I’ve always been into classic motorcycles, especially British ones. Never expected to see a square four on your channel 😅 Love your channel!

A California highway patrol officer once hand built a square 4 that was super compact. Saw it a long time ago in a motorcycle mag.

It was a great sidecar bike. Made a wonderful noise. There are still some around here in UK. My best mate bought one in 1970 for £75 and attached a Lambretta sidecar to it.

That was an awesome video man ❤️

@spitescorner

12 күн бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it, I had a lot of fun making it.

1:59 this is a modern Bloor Triumph 2003 - 2018 - "Heyday" Ha!

Great video Spite. There's also an upgraded Ariel 1000 called a Healey 1000 - now those really ARE rare!!! Rarer than Hen's teeth in Texas!! 😁😁😁

I built two of them. One back in 1975 and the other in 1982.

Now about 145 horsepower 4 cylinder 1,000 CC. Last year for four carbs... Outdated , Kawasaki 2006

Cool look at an old obscure bike. Nicely done.

The Ariel Factory Records survive and give detailed specs for all of the Square Fours built including the original destinations. Not as rare as people think...

Thanks to Elijah for such a great breakdown of this classic bike. I live in the UK and have never seen one in the flesh. It would be quite an experience to ride one, not sure I'd want to own one though due to limited parts availability.

We may still be getting something wrong - maybe throttles should roll out/forward in the opposite direction from what it does today. That would prevent the accident type where the rider is going off the back and rolls on the throttle while trying to hang on.

Ah Lucas, the Prince of Darkness. You know, a very long time ago I once applied for a wiring job at Lucas, they turned me down because I was too good (no word of a lie). After that I got a job building "computers".

@firefighter1c57

11 күн бұрын

Lucas made one product that didn't suck. Unfortunately it was a vacuum.

The square 4 should be given another chance. Water cooling, fuel injection. Mount it one way to bolt up to a chain drive or turn it 90deg for shaft drive.

Very cool to see you make a video about this😎. I didn't know Turner designed the Square 4. He sure had a long career. I think he left Triumph in the 1970's. It'd be awesome if somebody made a new replica of this bike with water cooling

@paulqueripel3493

10 күн бұрын

Turner's 4 had almost nothing to do with this one apart from the piston layout. His was ohc, cast iron, 500cc and unreliable. This version owes more to Val Page, one of Britain's most prolific engine designers. ET retired in the 1960s, but was still designing. Look up the BSA Fury/ Triumph Bandit. Even then it took other engineers to make it production worthy.

Wild! I'd be interested in seeing what else lime cycles has to say. Especially about vintage Japanese bikes

This was a fun post. thx

Elijah and Chris are absolute legends.

Lol the only bike that doubled its CC with a only a small increase in power, some were prone to overheating rear cylinders . Mainly used with side cars !

In the 90's there was a Square 4 in an old closed store front window in downtown Paris, AR. I drove past it weekly. It was freaking beautiful, I would often stop just to stare at it for a few minutes. There was a little 'for sale' sign on it... $5k IIRC.

@spitescorner

12 күн бұрын

That would have been the deal of a lifetime if it ran

Lucas Industries. 😂 When I was in shop class, the teacher would always refer to Lucas as the “Reigning prince of darkness”. We had a kid in class with an old Land Rover which drove home the point. We practically rewired that entire car throughout the school year.

@P_RO_

11 күн бұрын

There was one time when Lucas wasn't dark. On later British bikes where a zener diode was used to regulate alternator output, if the diode burned out at speed your lights would get amazingly bright for a moment then burn out from overcurrent. Guaranteed to put a pinch-mark in the seat if it happened at night on a tight blind curve. Scarier than that is Lucas Electrics eventually morphed into Lucas Aerospace who does the wiring on Airbus planes!

In the 1950s we knew them as the Squariel

Very interesting 😁👍

Having ridden British bikes only, the gear shift on the right is correct.

See a few o dem at the local classic motorshow every couple o years, cool bikes

You missed mentioning a couple brands which were popular there back in the day. Namely Norton and Velocette, both of who had a great racing history. Though it would be sacrilage to purists, I always thought the untimate stand-out bike would be a 4-pipe Squariel chopper with a radius-rod springer fork and a sprung-hub Triumph rear. Nobody would know what everything was so it would get a LOT of attention and questions.

The steering damper is there for sidecar (hack) work really.

This one was great! Of course I'm a 72yr old guy who rode British bikes in the 60's and now ride a modern day RE. Don't beat me up too bad because I also ride a Ninja 400. Apples and Oranges.

A motorbike with mud guards about time, whoops sorry already sorted. What a old bike.

Cool bike for sure!

even very rare in the UK, and it was built here.

Counter-rotating crankshafts? - ie. Front cylinders are running 'backwards'? : )

A video on the Cfmoto 450 mt would be cool

I had a BSA Gold Flash that I brought new in 1958. Like the.Square Four terrible brakes and plunger rear suspension. I lived in Auckland New Zealand and we used to meet every Friday night at a place that Kiwis called a milk bar. Basically a place that sold milk shakes and ice cream on Queens St. The Main Street of Auckland. There were two guys that had square Fours. I hated them they could always blow me away on acceleration but I was pretty much equal to them on the corners. We used to call the Square Fours Squaffers. I have no idea who named them that. Also the group of riders were called Milk Bar Cowboys. I left New Zealand in 1960 to see the world and sold my bike and never rode again. In hind sight the English bikes of the 1950s were pretty bad bikes but one guy in the group somehow imported a 1956 Harley from American Samoa and after inspecting it we all felt so superior. The Harley suspension was much worse than ours. That knob on the steering column was to adjust the damping of the steering and help to stop speed wobble. Didn’t work worth a dam on the BSA.

Dude is almost as weird as the bike, and I love them both.

Also, the British Sunbeam motorcycles are worth a mention, I think. Be cool if that Ariel had actually square pistons!

@P_RO_

11 күн бұрын

The Sunbeams were the real Rolls-Royces of bikes, not the Squariels. They were touted for comfort and smoothness and their shaft drive being less messy than a chain. An inline twin parallel to, not perpindicular with, the frame and wheels. Advertising was toward the gentlemen riders not seeking the performance of a Vincent or commoners seeking a sporty bike. Even fewer Americans know of them than the Squariel.

@chrishart8548

11 күн бұрын

Making and fitting the square piston (rings) (piston squares) never mind trying to get a seal for the oil and compression.

@tonyjourneyman1944

10 күн бұрын

@@chrishart8548 Yes, quite a few things might go wrong! 🙂

@notsorare

7 күн бұрын

@@P_RO_sunbeams had rubber bushes mounting the engine ( from memory) making them really vibration free Norton finally caught on to that idea with the 750 commando

I had a 3TA and a T90.

My friend has a Honda 110cc Super Cub with bigger drum brakes than that. It would have been interesting if they kept developing the square 4 engine into more modern times. I would love to know how a modern version stacks up against a V4, and we may have had some competition for the glut of P twins we have now. We did have the Suzuki RG500, but it's not the same.

Oh, what a looker!

What about AJS, Matchless and Norton?

It wasn't so much learning what works as much as developing the technology

A dealer near me has one for sale.

Nothing can compare with the Square 4 sound, make sure the coil wire is tight 😳

Harley's used to come with a Complimentary Pickup Truck so you could get it home. English vehicles were Blessed by Lucas Lord of Darkness!!!

Square for has been used later too. For example Suzuki RG500 was a square four two-stroke.

@chrishart8548

11 күн бұрын

I imagine that had 4 separate crank cases being a 2 stroke. That's more impressive in itself.

@Qassu78

9 күн бұрын

@@chrishart8548 It had a single crankcase, two crankshafts four separate cylinders that were from RM125 and two cylinderheads. Ofcourse, being a two-stroke, every cylinder had their own crankchamber. Really amazing piece of engineering. But so is every two-stroke era GP engine.

Watched just to piss yammie off 😅

Turner designed a 250 V8 Daimler

Lucas the Prince of Darkness.

Love the square four, not that hard to find if you want one and his pricing was high. Two, learn a little about British bikes, just because it shifts on the right and brakes on the left doesn’t make it wrong just different. Don’t ever forget NORTON! And last, the Ariel was never called the Rolls Royce of motorcycles, that was the Brough Superior which will now set you back $500K!

Completely re designed on the later versions, I wonder why 🤔😊

Changed the Industry? Are you feeling well?

There's a gorgeous restored one on marketplace right now for $18,000 in Ohio.

@chopsandarchie7015

12 күн бұрын

Blimey! I hope the owner doesn't ride around Ohio in the Winter on it, especially brakes that could be beaten in performance by chucking a 10lb mud weight off the back.

@John_Ridley

12 күн бұрын

@@chopsandarchie7015 Nobody would ride a vintage bike that valuable in the winter. I park my 1980 Honda in the winter and ride the modern bike with ABS and TC. I do hope that the owner RIDES it though and doesn't just park it in a museum or living room.

They were really supposed to be with a sidecar. Solo was not the best. Not so much horsepower but torque for lugging a child adult sidecar plus luggage. Uk just ok but cooling issue.nothing odd. A meter only neg if dynamo not sorted. Sorry u can’t apply modern rational. In its day awesome. Twist grip connected to the speedo.

Not uncommon in uk still a few about.

To their credit the Britscwere innovative. Look too at Sunbeam and Wilkenson or Norton wankels. Sadly they were poor at refinement. Look at Lucas electrics or any carburetor brand.

@P_RO_

11 күн бұрын

Just about everything 'motorcycle' was invented by the Brits, often as far back as the 1920's. Hub-center steering, every fork, swingarm, and suspension configuration, 'positive stop' shifters like bikes have now where you click through the gears, shaft drive, anti-dive forks, and so much more. Some of it worked OK but was tied to bikes which otherwise weren't noteworthy, and product development doesn't seem to be in their language so the wonderful ideas faded away until recent times where everyone thinks they're new concepts...

@jeffwatson4908

11 күн бұрын

@@P_RO_ I toured the National Motorcycle Museum and was amazed at the innovations of various manufactures in the early years (pre 1930’s). The technical prowess was truly eye watering.

"Changed the industry forever" 🙄 I have owned several British bikes starting with a Norton N15 bought in 1969. Those bike shops usually had a broken Square Four stashed in the corner somewhere. I always thought they were interesting, but never had the slightest urge to buy one. When people who know British bikes say the Square Four are unreliable, pay attention. They made BSAs look good.

Good bikes apart from rear cylinder overheating, the majority of them were sent to US in the late sixties so idiots could put the engines in chopped bikes.

Old bikes, like some old cars, look great... But, guess what? They are compromised all over the place. They are like pieces of art and, I know this upsets some vintage purists but, the museum is now where they belong. I ride modern retro bikes (enfield and triumph) and really enjoy the the modern benefits, with the old looks, each to their own, ride safe. 🧐.

Sorry but those indicators just don't look right.

Funny how yanks say it Brrrrrrmeeeeeynhaaaym

Bad British brakes! I'll have you know that if you are riding at a safe enough speed to drink tea from a china cup, those brakes are perfect! Harumph.

Weird? Why? 🤷

That was not an English flag. It was a Union Jack. The same colonial banner the US got independence from. And don’t tar the Scots with the same brush, btw.

@firefighter1c57

11 күн бұрын

Not Quite the same banner as colonial times. Northern Ireland Cross wasn't added until 1806 IIRC.

@P_RO_

11 күн бұрын

No tarring indeed. Instead they had an oily rag you used to wipe out the flooded crankcase of your Scott Flying Squirrel two-stroke so you could ride it instead of push it. Another bike few average Americans know about.

hmm! gear change and brake on the correct side until you Yanks made us change

Aaay yupp Stu baby!