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You forgot to mention in the books that the basket of goodies Farmer Maggot’s wife gave them included mushrooms, and that Farmer Maggot teased Frodo by mentioning he hadn’t forgotten Frodo’s stealing his mushrooms as a youngster. I loved that detail in the books, as it showed Farmer Maggot’s humour.

@factorfantasyweekly

Ай бұрын

Yes, that’s a great detail! Maggot has a sense of humor. 😂

One change I don't care for in the movie is that Merry and Pippin essentially bungle their way into Frodo's adventure rather than being friends who were helping Frodo out of loyalty all along and had actually figured out Frodo's real plan before Frodo told them.

@augusthasani6588

27 күн бұрын

I guess the redemption for that was how well done was their sacrifice in Amon Hen

@selwynevonbeereskow8053

27 күн бұрын

Well, I think that was due to the changes in the movie. There Frodo never made any plans but started out to Bree and Rivendell very spontaneously. So there was no opportunity for Merry and Pippin to guess and anticipate what he was doing and to help him out of loyalty. A meeting by chance was quite a good option to bring the four hobbits together.

@kylemarkloff4451

8 күн бұрын

I think it's just for time and flow of the scenes. They certainly prove their loyalty to frodo at the council of Elrond when they join the Fellowship

The Shire to Bree are my favourite parts of the whole story. I love re reading those parts. The Ringwraith crawling towards the Hobbits is terrifying. Also, slight correction. Farmer Maggot does have a face in the movies, its the scene where his dog retreats into the house and he says 'they're up in Hobbiton, that way!'

@ZDiddy7777

5 күн бұрын

Thats NOT farmer Maggot. Its a kind of likeness maybe, but not the same face we get a glimpse of when hes chasing them from his property...

as someone who is reading the books for the first time, and has watched the movies countless times, it's nice to hear a side by side, especially one this detailed! fun reliving these moments!

@factorfantasyweekly

Ай бұрын

Glad to hear you’re enjoying it!

Thank you so much for this! It brings back questions and inferences that I drew as a 9-year-old well more than 60 years ago. Riding on a country school bus i immersed myself in Frodo, Gandalf, and many others. Your attention to detail reminds me how I also loved, and mentally catalogued, the intricacies and richness of these books. Thanks again

@factorfantasyweekly

Ай бұрын

I love doing it! Glad you’re enjoying it.

@eqprog

29 күн бұрын

69. Nice.

Something very important to bring up- there's a complicated narrative in regard to Saruman's allegiance to Sauron as expressed in the books. The movies portray him as a wholesale servant of Sauron with absolute obedience, but it's not quite that way in the books. Saruman's motive for serving Sauron is to really try and actually manipulate him in order to use Sauron for his own ends. The reality of that is Sauron is most blatantly aware of Saruman's attempts to use him and it only makes Saruman more of a pawn in Sauron's eyes. Saruman also is somewhat blind by his own pride to the risk of building an army in challenge of Sauron, but at the same time seems to be precariously aware of the huge gamble he is running if he cannot find the ring.

@zachthecool4321

26 күн бұрын

They didn't outright say it. But the whole saurmon made a whole orc army to specifically bring the ring to HIM basically cements him as not a true servant of sauron and only ever in it for his own power

@keithtorgersen9664

26 күн бұрын

@zachthecool4321, yeah there’s also a minor part from the books that isn’t included in the film, where the Mouth of Sauron is making demands to Gandalf, and specifically denounces Saruman for his treachery

I can forgive many of the changes Jackson made to the trilogy, but the one that was most unforgivable one - which I assume you'll cover in a future episode - was Arwen taking the glory of carrying Frodo across the river and taking credit for what Elrond and Gandalf did to the Black Riders with it. This scene is so pivotal to Frodo's character and tells us (the reader) why he is the one carrying the ring, before they even met Elrond and form the fellowship. With it altered, all we've heard (from people who didn't read the book) is that Frodo did nothing and was a weak character and Sam should have taken the ring etc. Hoping you do this injustice it's proto l proper insight. Looking froward to watching it. Great videos.

Also, in the book Orthanc scene, Saruman doesn't reveal to Gandalf that he owns a Palantir and never says he wants to join with Sauron. Indeed, in the book we are led to believe that Saruman simply wants to capture the ring for himself. Gandalf only realises that the stone is a Palantir when Pippin looks into it at the end of their Two Towers (!) story, and only then it becomes clear that he was corrupted into evil by Sauron.

After 20 years to think on it i would only change 3 things in the fellowship. 1: show or just tell that Elendil & Gilgalad killed Sauron... every normy that watches the movie thinks Sauron is defeated by cutting his finger off! 2: should of shown that it was Elrond with HIS ring of power that released the flood to wash the Nazgul away before Rivendel...(flesh out the 3 rings of power more instead as far as the movie goes only Galadriel has one) 3: Should of given Aragorn Anduril when the fellowship sets out.

@barbarossarotbart

28 күн бұрын

I agree, but I would also change some of the things discussed in this video.

@circedelune

13 күн бұрын

There are more things that I would change. My number one change is the whole Aragorn love triangle thing. It makes me cringe so hard.

@circedelune

13 күн бұрын

There are more things that I would change. My number one change is the whole Aragorn love triangle thing. It makes me cringe so hard.

Omg I love these video's. Thank you for making them. (Also, without wanting to stirr awake and direct all of the internet's hate towards me: I'm totally fine with using LotR RoP artwork in your videos. But then again, I totally get why you wouldn't)

@factorfantasyweekly

Ай бұрын

I appreciate it! Thank you 🙏🏼

I still cant get over the distance amount that Merry tells in the movie after getting on the Ferry. Frodo asks him about nearest crossing, to which Merry answers it's Brandywine bridge, 20 miles. And that's quite a distance, on the maps Buckleberry Ferry and Brandywine Bridge are not really far away from each other, yet there's 20 miles between them as stated by Merry. Which leads to other things with movies. Because by the maps, from Buckleberry Ferry to Bree, the Hobbits had to go for 20 miles through Crickhollow to reach the East Road, which actually starts from Brandywine Bridge and goes straight to Bree. And of cource the Nazgul would be there far faster than four Hobbits. Basically, movies, by cutting off Old FOrest and Barrow Downs, created a problematic route that Hobbits would had to take in the movies. But of cource, movie watchers wouldn't know such details, so no harm done.

@factorfantasyweekly

8 күн бұрын

Yea, of course the writers will say “oh just cause we didn’t show it doesn’t mean it didn’t happen”… but I think that’s just them coping with leaving out that whole section of the books. 😂

@inspector_beyond

8 күн бұрын

@@factorfantasyweekly They say that, but then why would Merry tell to Pippin about tales about Old FOrest at the Edge of Buckland, where trees grow taller and talk in Two Towers when Uruks brought them to the Eaves of Fangorn? If they did went through Old Forest in the movies and simply didnt showed it, Pippin would already know that fact. Of cource this explaination is mostly for the viewers, but from the in-world POV, this wouldn't make sence if they did go through the Old Forest... Unless Pippin has terrible memory and he forgot that he and Merry was almost eaten by the Old Willow :D

“Unavoidable” is such a strong word

Look at how the other hobbits tried to rob Bilbo on two occasions. They were selling his stuff off when he came home and kept walking away with it while he was standing in front of them. And then after the Party, they tried to ransack the house. Hobbits seem cute, but lock up your stuff.

is conspiracy unmasked after the ferry or before ? i forget . i think the other hobbits were aware of the ring and frodos plan on leaving and had been curious even of bilbo when he used the ring and sam had divulged pretty much everything and even fatty when being surrounded by nazgul fled and cried "i dont have it or i have not got it" or something like this implying some knowledge of the ring or atleast knowledge of something frodo had that the black riders wanted

@factorfantasyweekly

28 күн бұрын

Conspiracy unmasked will be covered in the next episode as it’s the chapter after this one. They do reveal to Frodo that merry had guessed about the ring. But they do not know it’s the One Ring of Sauron. They just think it’s treasure bilbo got from his adventures, and that some people want it. I’ll admit, this is my fault as I am reading it as I analyze the scenes. So because I hadn’t read that chapter yet, I missed it, and should’ve mentioned that fact in this episode. My mistake! But yes, they don’t know it’s THE one ring.

About the tree root being stuck in frodo's or Sam's back. Honestly, I think it's not because they wanted to change the writing. I think it's because Elijah woods always found it easy to sleep pretty much anywhere. I could be wrong, and it was a reference to that.

Love this, watch the trilogy Every year but never read the books so Im learning so so much from this series, commenting and liking every video to help out and hopefully going all the way through all movies/ books

And during Bilbo's birthday party Pippin was only 11 years old in the books that is the part of the timeline is pretty much changed

@factorfantasyweekly

27 күн бұрын

Yep! Check out one of the previous videos in the series for my analysis on that.

❤thank for showing us

They're already long movies for theatre so alot had to be cut out, even for the extended. But it still made perfect sense as entertaining movies for most people. I admit I've only read some of the books, but you get the plot watching the movies. I just wish they would have left in the death of Saruman & Grima instead of leaving us wondering & Boromir's speech at Osgiliath.

2:45 Pippin ran into Frodo like an NFL linebacker 🤣

No, the changes in this chapter get a 1/5. It undermines Merry's and Pippin's characters, changing them from loyal and well-meaning (but a bit foolish) to just goofballs. The conspiracy could've been included without adding to the running time, and would have added a lot to the story and characterisation.

A criticism I would make of the movies is that there is no reference time passing at all. The presenter of this video states the movies show them leaving the next morning ... that's an assumption. Next morning, next week, next decade; there's no indication how much time that cut represents. Tolkien had worked out a very detailed and intricate sequence of events over many years that accounted for varioius processes to run their course, for travel times, etc. The movies making so little reference to time or distances, on casual viewing it could seem the whole trilogy takes place over the course of several days. I assume this was done to make the films less think-y, more appealing to a general audience ... to avoid distracting / confusing newcomers with the nitty-gritty minutiae. And apparently, it worked. Those that want to know more can dive into the realm of Tolkien studies!

To be honest Frodo's Crickhollow plan was pretty silly, surely a story that he was going to the West Fathing would have made more sense, and they had to change the timeline, not least because their Frodo was too young to have credibly waited 17 years. It was a shame to lose Farmer Maggot, but the one bit I don't like is the accidental involvement of Merry and Pippin, to join the quest without a thought didn't ring true.

While I agree you have to make changes when making a book into a movie, including dropping characters and plot lines, the changes made to Pippin and Merry are egregious. They are both "number one sons" who take over the family titles (The Took or Thain, and the Master of the Hall) they are not sneaking through a farmer's field and stealing vegetables. This also takes away from why they go with Frodo to Rivendell and beyond. Also, you repeated from your last video that the threat from Farmer Maggot is what caused the nazgul to run away. He actually laughs and would have run Maggot over with his horse, if he didn't jump out of the way.

@Son-of-Gondor

Ай бұрын

Yeah, I made the mistake of commenting that “Farmer Maggot essentially scared away a Nazgûl.” I am (and was) aware that the Nazgûl wasn’t scared. I was also aware that having Farmer Maggot standing up to a Nazgûl would destroy the aura of fear that the movies were trying to portray of the Nazgûl. I worded the comment badly, and am sorry for any confusion I may have caused.

@factorfantasyweekly

Ай бұрын

Very true! I agree the Nazgûl wasn’t fearful for his life. But I do like to think that Maggot standing up to him shocked him as he probably assumed the tiny hobbit would just give in easily.

@circedelune

13 күн бұрын

The Nazgul have one great weapon and that is fear. They dominate by fear. While I agree that the black rider was not afraid of Maggot, he was defeated in trying to dominate him.

Farmer maggot was one of the most important characters in the books

You said they never show Farmer Maggot's face in the movies, but I always thought that the guy who gets asked directions by the nazgul was supposed to be a reference to him. They dont state it outright, but he is a human farmer just outside hobbiton, with a pet dog, who has a (nonlethal) encounter with a ringwraith. For those reasons I always assumed that was who he was supposed to represent

@factorfantasyweekly

28 күн бұрын

Check out my previous video for my thoughts on this one! A little side note, he is a hobbit farmer, not human, but he lives on the outskirts of the Shire instead of in Hobbiton, which is why he points the Nazgûl in the direction. It could definitely be maggot, but if that’s what Peter Jackson meant, there’s two issues. 1.) We hear the voice of maggot chasing them in the field, and the voice is COMPLETELY different (since Maggot is old). 2.) The book Farmer Maggot interaction with the Nazgûl is totally different than the one portrayed in the movies. So if Jackson did want that guy to be Maggot, he butchered him. 😭 Regardless, all great things to explore! Check out the previous vid and I’d love to hear your thoughts. 😁

At least one year seems to pass between Bilbo's departure from the Shire (Third Age 22 September, 3000 according to FOTR-EE) and Gandalf's return. There are just too many events that take place and too much time that would have to be spent by Gandalf just traveling for the Council of Elrond to take place on 25 October of that same year. That places the events of the War of the Ring from the year 3001 to 3002.

@keithtorgersen9664

29 күн бұрын

But even in the movie, Gandalf tells Frodo that he wakes up on October the 24th.

@otaku-sempai2197

29 күн бұрын

@@keithtorgersen9664 Yes, but you seem to miss my point. I'm saying that it's October 24, the following year. September 22, 3000 (film) is Bilbo's birthday party; Frodo and Sam depart in September (23?), 3001. Frodo passes out at the ford on October 24, 3001.

Only mistake: should have been 6 movies!

The flickering effects made me think my screen is broken 😅

Merry and Pippin (and Fatty) DO know why Frodo is leaving the Shire. They just don't tell him they know.

@digitalnomad9985

7 күн бұрын

They know THAT he's leaving, and are pretty sure it has something to do with Bilbo's ring, which they know enables invisibility. They don't know about Sauron or that Frodo's ring is the One. Sam was a "spy" for the group until caught (that's why he was eavesdropping), then he clammed up because of his promise to Gandalf. Sam kept his friends secret and Gandalf's secret both, for as long as they remained secrets.

@SuStel

7 күн бұрын

@@digitalnomad9985 "'Of course we understand,' said Merry firmly. 'That is why we have decided to come. We know the Ring is no laughing-matter; but we are going to do our best to help you against the Enemy.'" The other hobbits don't know the history of the Ring and all that, but they do know that the Enemy, the Dark Lord of Mordor, is hunting for Frodo, and they know it's because of the Ring. Merry says that Sam "collected a lot, I can tell you, before he was finally caught." What information did Sam collect that didn't come out in Gandalf's long talk with Frodo? Whatever it was, and Merry says it was a lot, it must have included the link between Frodo's ring and Sauron. "We know most of what Gandalf told you. We know a good deal about the Ring. We are horribly afraid - but we are coming with you; or following you like hounds." They know why Frodo is leaving. They don't know all the details, but they know a lot. They know Frodo is being hunted by Sauron because of the Ring, and that's why he has to leave the Shire.

@SuStel

7 күн бұрын

@@digitalnomad9985 It looks like KZread ate my response to you, where I quote Merry in "A Conspiracy Unmasked." I'm not going to rewrite the post. Merry says they know about the Ring and that the Enemy is hunting Frodo. He says that Sam provided lots of information before he was caught, that they learned most of what Gandalf told Frodo and a lot about the Ring. He says they know it's dangerous and that they're afraid. Go reread that part of the chapter. The hobbits definitely do know WHY Frodo is leaving. They know almost everything Frodo knows.

Great video, love it, but Farmer Maggot does get shown, the Nazgûl asks him “Shire? Baggins?” And as his dog whimpers and backs into the house he says to look in hobbiton.

@factorfantasyweekly

Ай бұрын

Make sure to check out the previous video for my analysis of that scene! If you haven’t read the books, I can see how one would think that’s maggot. But if it is, they really changed him from the books. As one commenter said on the previous video, they like to think that farmer is a neighbor to Maggot, and a sackville baggins. 😂

@Mini_Hayley

Ай бұрын

@@factorfantasyweekly well it’s credited as Maggot, so I don’t really care about your chatGPT’s interpretation of it.

@factorfantasyweekly

Ай бұрын

*triggered* 💀

@Mini_Hayley

22 күн бұрын

@@factorfantasyweekly well no, but now your channel is going to be pulled down.

I take issue with you calling it "one of the greatest film trilogies of all time." It was clearly the greatest. What else even comes close?

@digitalnomad9985

7 күн бұрын

Yea, how many other designed trilogies are there, as opposed to movies with sequels.