Continued: It took me a while to figure out, but it was my foot catching the rope (the part that goes through the quickdraws) that caused me to swing sideways...violently. I ended up with stitches in my back head and a ding in my climbing ego. I still climb and I fall regularly...but nowadays I wear a helmet. It's not an issue for me anymore. I just wear the damn thing. Ok, not on plastic..but we all know climbing indoor is 100% safe, RIGHT? :) Thanks for the video, and climb on Joel!

@as3fawf

2 жыл бұрын

thx for the followup! Not sure why youtube shows me this 12 years later but good on you for wearing a helmet (still?)

@thisisgettingold

2 жыл бұрын

Dog, you fuckin fell like that on like a 5.7? Bruh there are no words. Whoever took you climbing should be ashamed.

@vwsyncro

2 жыл бұрын

@@thisisgettingold Who are you talking to?

@NE-fx8qg

Жыл бұрын

I don't think your foot got caught by the rope tbh, you fell back and the rope acted as a pendulum because the anchor was to your left and not directly above you

@NE-fx8qg

Жыл бұрын

Because you fell backwards and didn't jump off, your feet were still stanind on the rock, thus feeling like being stuck somewhere.. I really can't see you getting stuck at your rope

Title could also be "Reasons to wear a helmet while climbing". That's a nasty fall.

@forjesus8681

3 жыл бұрын

Title should be, how to not give a dynamic belay.

@sarahhardy5256

3 жыл бұрын

I see these idiots with no helmet all the time.....why??

@cat19649

2 жыл бұрын

I always hear "d00d there's no overhang or loose rocks. plus its like a 5.6." Like man I'm not really telling you for your safety I don't want to cut my climbing short driving you to the hospital! Some people just don't want to wear it.

@jensh2353

Жыл бұрын

20years expierence helmet during sportclimbing? Just as belay

I love that you have a healthy enough ego to actually show this video. Well done on that count. Keep on climbing! :-)

@myguykaikai9215

2 жыл бұрын

Does it really take any ego to show a video about somebody ELSE falling? Not on my planet.

@billabong7971

2 жыл бұрын

@@myguykaikai9215that comment was almost a decade ago

@myguykaikai9215

2 жыл бұрын

@@billabong7971 didn’t realize KZread videos had an expiration date.

@jeffsmith9351

2 жыл бұрын

This comment was just as stupid a decade ago

Good thing we had that minute of footage before the fall!

I absolutely agree :) I wear a helmet 99% of the time when leading trad. An overhung, well-bolted sport route that is easy for me - I feel like the falls are much safer, and it's OK to skip the helmet sometimes. In unfamiliar areas, areas with lots of people climbing or an area known for rock fall - having a helmet even while eating a sandwich is a good idea :)

@stephenjams

2 жыл бұрын

I wear it more often when i belay lol 😅

@serujiphonx9070

Жыл бұрын

No it is not okay to skip the helmet - it is super stupid. Helmets protect you not ust from your own stupidity but also from falling rocks.

It’s nice that you show this. Even a short fall can get quite hard with bad/unlucky belaying.

@IkEisawesome7

Жыл бұрын

This wasn't the belayers fault though lol

@0xf7c8

11 ай бұрын

The dude wanted to kill himself. How is that the be layers faul

Thanks for the positive discourse. OkeyPlus, you're dead-on with your analysis. What you can't see from the video is that my belayer stumbled and took a couple steps backwards, right as I fell, thus tightening the belay.

@nicholaslittle2312

2 жыл бұрын

It looked like a hard catch.

@renaminginprogress6903

2 жыл бұрын

Nice reply you fucking boomer

@error.418

2 жыл бұрын

@@renaminginprogress6903 you okay?

@brutalctg7654

2 жыл бұрын

@@renaminginprogress6903 why are u so mad haha

"How not to fall" I thought I was going to learn, "how to not fall"

@ednegroni I find that you need slack in this situation. having your belayer take up slack will pull your hips toward the bolt as soon as you let go/fall making you flip. its best to give some slack & try to give a soft catch so that you are starting the catch as he is passing the bolt so the force on the rope is vertical not horizontal.

a good learning experience for the climber, and for viewers. thanks for sharing.

the short, ground-near falls are the scariest and most painfull.Thumbs up for posting that lesson to others.

Thanks. Yep, the helmet goes on first these days!

I think it could have helped if the belayer had *given* slack. It gives you a greater swing "radius" at the same distance to the rock, and hence softens the horizontal crash

As mentioned, it is true that he was not given a soft catch by his lead belayer. What amplified the bad fall was that he may have sat back too far instead of centering his weight downwards toward the direction he was falling.

@jesseberg9541

Жыл бұрын

Peter, this guy should not be filming his bad habits. As humans, we are supposed to have a natural craft at climbing, all I can say is this is cringe at its fullest...

@IkEisawesome7

Жыл бұрын

@@jesseberg9541 Peter commented that 8 years ago

@BassMaster.454

11 ай бұрын

​@@jesseberg9541 go climb a cliff with no gear then

could also be called: when its is finally referring to the title (aka getting interesting) we cut the video...

@joeltornatore Helmet is a plus, but even if you would have had it that's a bad fall. Always remember if you have the slight possibility of hitting the rope with your legs when taking the fall, traverse as close as you can to the last anchor you hooked on so you can drop as straight down as you can. Having your belayer pick up as much slack as he/she can will also help. Safe climbing, Cheers.

It's important to distinguish between "The leader should never fall" and "never fall". IMO every climber should take plenty of falls and be comfortable with it. "The leader should never fall" (to my knowledge) mostly pertains to long multipitch trad routes, where pushing your limit is a worse idea than normal.

@ArkanoidZero

3 жыл бұрын

This whole idea of "the leader should never fall" comes from the Olde times before modern kernmantle dynamic climbing ropes were a thing, and simple lead falls were likely to result in snapped ropes. There are still no fall zones, especially in hard trad, but falling on sport lead is generally very safe nowadays

I took a similar fall, years ago. I went for a big hold with a long dynamic move. I was still in this stretched out, rotated position when part of the hold broke, causing me to fall backwards and rotate outwards...so much that I could actually look my belayer in the eye..mid-air. Oh sh*t. I fought like a man possessed to regain control (it was one of those bullet-time moments) and almost recovered..when the rope tightened and I was swung into the rock like a rag doll, bashing my head and back.

You bet! I lucked out and really just hit my back hard, and not my head.

@OkeyPlus @joeltornatore besides what okey mentioned i have a couple of questions ( just started leading.. trying to figure more stuff out to prevent such a disaster ) 1.did you push yourself off the wall really hard ( can't really tell ) 2.did the belayer jump as you came off the wall ? maybe all this could have been avoided with a good jump from the belayer...even though you did kept/pivot your right foot (after all that's the right way to catch a lead fall )

You can't always count on a soft catch even from an experienced belayer. Chest harnesses or even impromptu chest harnesses aren't in vogue but they keep the head pointed up. For new climbers or walls with a lot of protrusions, they are a good idea.

@joeltornatore did you tie into the belay loop instead?

We’ve all taken super short whippers like this. Anyone who says they haven’t is a liar. Keep sending. You’re doin great.

That was his belayer. He gave him no catch. A good catch would've lessened that swing and spin

@pascaljutras178

3 жыл бұрын

Maybe no catch but it also looks like his right foot got in contact with the rock same time he was falling, so this created a rotation, this motion combined with not enough dynamic belaying may cause this situation. He was maybe afraid about the fall and instead of letting everything just going, he use to keep contact with one feet. That is why helmet is not only for the belayer.

gotcha! that will do it it seems. and it only takes once haha. keep up the fun man

My heart jumps at the end no matter how many times I watch this. The sound of the head hitting the wall doesn't really help either.. holy moly.

Ort Wall in the Grotto? I have taken a leader fall in there before. Routes can be deceptively hard. Most of them are overhanging and pumpy right off the deck.

Wow crazy this ended up in my feed I haven't seen this in years... I don't even climb anymore.

his left foot catches the end of the rope that's clipped in... would probably be hard to avoid even pushing off on uneven faces I suspect. Thanks for sharing, glad you're ok!

@huyiy just read a post further down indicating this was on the second bolt so the fall factor is a little higher that .083. It is probably closer to a 5 foot fall on 20 feet of rope, so .25 factor fall. Still not very dangerous. I would guess around 1-2 KN on the highest draw since there was less rope in the system and only 1 draw below this. Always better to fall after clipping the second bolt instead of durring.

That and falling across the rope, messed myself up doing just what you did. Body trying to swing toward the last piece of gear in, rope pulled my feet out from under me and slammed me into the wall hard inverted.

@joeltornatore what was the difficulty?

Was there a little lack of "Take" and "Taking In" commands?

@TheLonelyHappyMeal The key to this is two fold. The climber is correct in his falling form was not very good. He should have not dragged his foot durring the fall. The other important thing to note is that it was a relatively hard catch. this could be belayer error, or rope drag (this route does seem to be wandering a bit). The dragging foot starts the inversion, but the hard catch is what whips him upside down. In the future, bent knees and hands out. (also never kick off the wall)

First off helmet and I'm glad to hear you figured it. But if he gave a little slack so you could push away from the wall to get your feet right. It looks you where thinking this. But you were only a foot above the last pro. It wouldn't have given you time to get your feet under you and away from the rope.

Hello there! Two days ago I took an identical fall (lower back still hurting). I found this video tring to figure out what happened. Now the question is, how to avoid it in the future? Like jumping left could have helped? Ty

@joachim9777

2 жыл бұрын

When lead climbing always take care that the rope doesn't get behind your feet because that can turn you around if you fall. In the video, jumping a bit more to the left probably would have helped.

I feel in that same spot. Great crux

can you post the whole video clip please?

I don't see anything in the comments like what mine would be, this is why you don't quit climbing, harness and rope are your last defense you climbing is your primary protection, keep climbing, or down climb to your last or next draw, then safely lower.

This kind of upside down swing is rare without getting a foot hooked behind the rope. Was he only tied into his lower hardpoint?

What's the name of this route?

Whiplashmongus! did u whack a helmet on after that one?

Why is that ? Do you think the belayer was letting out as his feet hit, causing the flip ?

Man this could've been worse. I took my first lead fall today from about three feet above my bolt. Hair raising!

@jesseberg9541

Жыл бұрын

softer tho....LOL

@czarny181 yeah .. i guess ur right looked at it a few times it seems that he pushed himself to the right with that right leg... while the really tight rope/ no jump was pulling him to the left w/e i dunno.. too much stuff went wrong.. poor fellow :(

Is that route like 5.4 or 5.5 maybe?

1:05 there saved you a minute of your life

@samstagg5500

3 жыл бұрын

I dunno I kinda enjoyed the full minute of dilly-dallying on one move

@allenniasari The amount of slack is fine. As a matter of fact, the belayer should had jumped to make a soft catch. It's called a dynamic belay.

@huyiy BAD ADVICE... First, this is about a factor .083 fall and was totally safe from an equipment perspective, which is a far cry from a super dangerous factor 2 which is rare in sport. The forces were safe too here and probably less than 2kn at the highest draw. A factor 2 fall is when the clibmer falls twice (a factor of 2) the length of the rope in the system. Think a climber 10 feet above a belay falling 20 feet (10 past the belayer). 20/10= factor 2. This was (guessing) 5/60=.083.

Nice video

@joeltornatore It seems you let go of your hands instead of jumping off. When you do that, your body start rotating while falling. If you need to take a fall, jump away from the wall.

That fall was hilarious

Wow, a lot if ignorant comments here. Where do you get off telling this guy that he shouldn't be leading at all? 1. Going off-route when you're pumped is bad - then you're just pumped and off-route. 2. The belay was tight, but not responsible for the inversion. 3. He didn't come off the rock very well. He kept his right foot on too long. 4. He pivots around his right foot as he falls, as if it catches on something. 5. No helmet is OK sometimes if you know what you're doing.

Color Coded Quick Draws?

It looks more like it's caused by falling from the side of the top clip on a pretty tight rope and taking a whipper. Ideally, you want more slack from your belayer when climbing to the side like that, although I can't see how close the ground is in the vid.

@zubinchandran5233

2 жыл бұрын

This is correct. The big problem I see with the fall is a bad belay. That close to the clip, but out to the side from it, the belayer definitely needs to have more slack in the system, so that the fall is more downwards.

what did you do wrong? what causes this??

Haha no problem, hats off to you though, thats some tough stuff!

Hillarious

@snocket in this Rare case, had the belayer not LET him climb off rout, he wouldhave been better off. He was off route and more off rout than he was high. the way he came off did not matter, he was moving more horizontaly than verticaly, the fall was going to suck.

Grabbing the rope (only that one that goes from your harness to the next quickdraw!) can avod the rotation round the balance point of your body during a fall (like the fall in this vid) when you're not wearing a chest harness. also i don't agree when you say the belayer did short-rope him, 'cause as you can see the climber was few meters above the ground and had just clipped the second quickdraw.

Don't climb when weak? Presumably he started the route plenty fresh. Do you never climb a route hard enough to get pumped?

interesting to see what happens in even a small fall with little slack

I’m anti helmet for most sports but may I ask why no helmet ? I don’t climb so this is a legit question? I would wear one but is there a reason not to wear one?

It seemed to be a very abrupt stop without much rope stretch ... it's hard to tell from the video but the rope looks white ... it was a dynamic rope wasn't it ?

@jesseberg9541

Жыл бұрын

Yup, Gumby's will be gumby's....

That climb looks really easy and fun !!

alternate title "how to not give your climber enough slack"

Me: wow, this looks exactly like table mountain. Oh hey. It's table mountain.

The ropes lend a false sense of security to some degree because falling still means slamming into rocks. Lol My hats off to you for climbing. I'm too chicken.

I just found my voice doppelganger

Helmet?

hey I know this is a late response but I watched the video a couple times and It looks like your inversion had nothing to do with your feet leaving the rock weird or having your foot behind the rope. Instead it looks as if you were only tied into your bottom hard-point on your harness (which inverts you when you fall).

people should learn from David Roberts and only lead a climb if you're close to positive you can lead without falling. I can get close to 13's in a gym but only feel comfortable as of now on 10 and 11's leading outdoors

I think thats belayer fault aswell. Or maybie non dynamic rope? Anyway there should be some slack in a system

WOW!

how did that happen plz (so i know how to avoid it)

@joeltornatore crazy.. so this happens quite often?? cuz i just started lead climbing and have yet to fall cuz i'm just a bit worried about this kind of stuff haha

@matthewthompson6455

3 жыл бұрын

It’s a lot less life-threatening when it does happen if you’re wearing a helmet !!! You will definitely fall while lead climbing, but hopefully it won’t be as sketchy as this most of the time. 3 things in this video to try to avoid to have less sketchy falls. Maybe “avoid” isn’t the right word because they’re just part of climbing but try to be very conscious and only do 1 at a time. 1. He’s above his last bolt. Not very far above, but whatever distance of rope you are above the last bolt, you will fall at least twice that far before your belayers catch pulls taut and the rope starts stretching. 2. He was fairly far to the right, seemed almost like he was getting off-route (I don’t know the route, might be totally wrong). But when you’re off to the side you’ll swing back when you fall so be prepared for that, it didn’t seem like he was. 3. He flipped upside down in his harness. This has never happened to me and I don’t understand why it happens, you can probably find the answer on google, but make sure your harness is on and fitting right and is the right size. A harness is a good thing to spend extra money on for one that really fits good. You can get flipped upside down if your foot catches under the rope but that didn’t happen here. Don’t kick off the wall or slam your face forward into the rock but when you fall try to stay in a standing position and fall down instead of back.

@matthewthompson6455

3 жыл бұрын

Just saw your pfp and that this comment was 11 years ago, I have a feeling you don’t need this advice anymore 😂

So, do you wear a helmet every time you lead at the gym? If so, I congratulate you on your consistency! If not, then you understand that it is all subjective, and you can indeed take calculated risks.

Thanks for free advice, you must be a pretty good climber. So tell me, how can I push my climbing performance without falling regularly? How do Sharma, Ondra and all these other guys do it?

@bman6065

3 жыл бұрын

No one gets better at anything without pushing failure. In climbing, that means falling. Any pro you choose has logged in plenty of air time.

@FlatOutFE

2 жыл бұрын

You need to whip every time session that you climb.

How did he even flip, was he wearing his harness right

The algorithm has sent me here, it must be Destiny

ah, what was the aftermath?

Woah that’s a nasty fall. I hope he was all good. Looks like a fun climb tho.

@JoelTornatore

Жыл бұрын

I hit my back pretty good on the wall. fortunately i did not hit my head.

The main problem here is that he hasn't done is rappelling. Here he drops stiff legged, which ends up with his right foot making contact while his left foot only hits air, throwing him sideways. With more practice repelling you learn to keep your legs loose and absorb impact better and not throw yourself from one foot.

@wmruys Good rule of thumb is to keep your rope between your legs when you are above the pro, over your left leg/thigh if right of pro, over right leg if left of pro, and NEVER behind the ankle anywhere. You did a good job with the rope management and that is not what flipped you. This kind of thing is what motivates me to wear a brain bucket no matter what, sport and TR, belaying too. You'll look less silly than the dude wearing his brains on the rock.

hillarious

just didnt jump out man..simple as that. glad your climbin again and kick out haha! i always have to keep that in mind when climbin

@bman6065

3 жыл бұрын

Looks pretty low angle for that

WOOOOH we have the same chalk bag

Take?

stop beating me to every climbing video i click on dude! :)

I read this as "How To NOT FALL When Lead Climbing" and was very confused

just watched again :), while the left foot catching the rope explains the lefttwist, you are getting pulled up for some other reason, like some other use pointed out you may be incorrectly attached to your harness. but very hard to see at 1:11 due to video quality.

@haasmarc2017

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah! I thought the same! Maybe the rope was only attached to the lower lip of the harness!

@BANSHEEBOY_1974

Жыл бұрын

Left TwisT??..He went hard left because when he decided to let go, He was not directly above his rigging, He was like 2'ft to the right..and his foot didnt catch the rope..he flipped upside down ,because he's a tall guy.. top body mass is heavier than lower legs, thats why flipped ,heavier part continued to drop while lighter mass went up.

Suggestions: 1--always use a helmet. 2--watch your feet. I fell like that once, and learned my lesson.

did he hit his head?

Helmets are our friends

I think he's ready for free solo on Capitan.

@JoelTornatore

Жыл бұрын

NGL, that’s my favorite comment ever!

He leaves his right foot on for too long by the looks of it but the static catch from the belayer didn’t help.

had to watch is 20 times to see it. at first i though it was the right foot catching something, but it was actually during the leftswing that the left foot caught the the rope (ropeside from quickdraw downwards). i am actually wondering how to avoid this. i guess a looser belay would have helped, but judging from the camera angle you where at the 2nd or 3rd bold so giving to much rope or catching you dynamicly involves some risk aswell. => helmet, and/or overhanging routes :)

@jesseberg9541

Жыл бұрын

did you mean the belayer is a loser? Very accurate....

@joeltornatore hahaha good idea,i was gonna say, "lead climb and NO helmet???" lols

we climb cus we love it

A good example of what not to do. Got to learn to fall gracefully. You are lucky you didnt bash your head open