I gotta say Phenom, I was against you on this one at the start of the video, but by the end you brought me around and I really see your point of view on this. I don't think I find it as upsetting as you do (Steph was my favourite character in NGNL and I still found the bullying funny), but I appreciate the distinction you made. I appreciate your clear and analytical approach to the topic and the fact that you didn't get mired down in value judgments. Omega good job!

@shira_yone

Жыл бұрын

Same.

I don't care what you have, or what you can do, being cool is not possible without compassion. Smart people need to be nicer than those less intelligent and wise, otherwise they just come off as conceited dickheads. These are just my opinions, I guess, but they are the primary reason why I didn't really like NGNL, I didn't watch the movie and I don't care much for a reboot or sequel.

it's a pretty good thought, there's a line between funny and overdoing it and where that line is depends on the person who is watching it. For me it's very similar to yours as I thought they went overboard with her in NGNL aswell.

I think the only ones that are “funnest” to bully are the ones who deserve it to some degree. Say, your Jinnai’s or your Shinji Matou’s or your Mendou’s or your Komatsu and Hattas… They are themselves some level of cocky or rude or disgusting or hostile or…. Whatever. They just “deserve” a level of cosmic karma kicking their butts around. The problem even with your YunYuns is that they exist in an “undeservingsphere” that makes their treatment by the MC’s not very enjoyable. Differs obviously from your “suffering for a reason” and also obviously differs from your “bullied by the antagonists,” but I just can’t get into the MCs (or by extension the ploy they ride through - think your Polnareffs who are the butt of every joke and have literally dozens more unique jokes crafter just to bebutt them) going “bulli mode” on the undeserving-except-by-authorial-tropery.” Obviously friends knocking each other is fine and enjoyable when there’s a genuine sense of friendship to support it. But there’s a lot of 😑 relationships get jammed in places for no good reason.

@iota-09

Жыл бұрын

that's it! "undeserving"! basically, it's... miserable. i just don't like seeing miserable things, it's also why i HATED volume 7 of overlord, even though that's a generally more serious-toned series, the way it set a red flag from the very start of the volume about how the author just wanted to show adventurers, some genuinely kind-hearted too be ass-whooped and tortured for no reason other than showing how miserable they can be to no interest or worry of the protagonist and didn't even try to do something different from that set red flag it's just... in bad taste. that's all there is to it. it's fine if someone likes it but... it does feel odd, to a point where i genuinely dropped some serieses for it(overlord being one, but not ngnl, yet i also never tried konosuba for a similar reason, but that one doesn't count). i guess me, phenom and others aren't actually enjoying as "free-mindedly" as others these animes as we think. also to be noted, the ngnl anime stops at lik,e volume 4 or something of the novel, so i wouldn't be surprised if steph gets aknowledge later on in the series... but 12 episodes of just bullying and torture, especially the psychological torture with close to no rewards for a character undeserving of a miserable life really is hard to digest.

@floricel_112

Жыл бұрын

What I find funny about Yunyun's situation is that even the plot and characters to a degree *agree* that her situation is completely unfair. She doesn't deserve how she's being treated and her lack of friends and confidence is found sad rather than to be laughed. And when characters start pitying Yunyun in an overdramatic fashion, *that's* hilarious to me

I'm gonna go against you for a bit there when it comes to Sora and Shiro, the fact that they are assholes is much more due to their vision of humanity in general and how they essentially calculate their every moves to be as optimal as they can be, regardless of how that may put them in a bad light, just because the payoff is too good to pass on The LN, and the anime if it ever gets a S2 one day (we can hope), address a lot of issues you have with the two, and especially how they act toward Steph as there is a payoff to it in the end Like, I agree that they are assholes but that isn't their entire character, they aren't as such just for the sake of it, everything they do is calculated to an extent, be it to manipulate emotions and forcing others to lose their focus, making them take risks they wouldn't normally take or dismiss informations they would normally notice, or be it to control the game itself through pure theory/statistics If anything could be reproachable to them, it's that their approach to essentially everything is as such and could be seen as needlessly cold, regardless of the payoff, since they do their own things according to their plan without any warning, the episode where Sora disappear being a perfect exemple since he just cryptically told Shiro about it instead of giving it to her straight

@akiradkcn

Жыл бұрын

Yup

Thanks for sharing this valuable opinion. I too was really bothered when watching No Game No Life by the treatment of Stephany as a comic/bully relief. And no I don't think Sora and Shiro are cool. Smart sure, but admirable, lovable, certainly no. I really enjoy gaming/enigma anime, but I found this one especially bad in the character treatment, detrimentally so. I don't think Rudeus is a discutable character, as I find his pervertness realistic, and just coherent with his backstory. Do I always enjoy that trait? No. But do I find it problematic? Neither. However for Sora and Shirow, their bullying is a problem and a barrier in me enjoying the show. As it's not explained, their antagonization of Steph is inexplicable, it's just free bullying. Quite often series offer a relief in that sort of abusive relationship in putting a clearly masochistic character on the receiving end. However, even if that solution is not really great, that's not even the case here. Anyway, great vid as always. Keep up the good work!

It didn't bother me in NGNL, but it's not great either (although I didn't really enjoy NGNL as much as people does, in general). As you said, most of the times these kinds of mean behaviors are tied up neatly with some heart behind it, hell even Chainsaw Man that is pretty edgy and dark got this memo.

7:08 this is exactly the point where my logical process stopped forom 2014 to today: i like EVERYTHING(yes, even the protagonists to an extent) of ngnl, but just why, WHY does it annoy me so much that steph gets mistreated so much when i'm aware she's a joke character? do i just not like slapstick? i mean it's not wrong, do i not enjoy fanservice? eh, to an extent, i'm still a man after all, so why? it's not that big of a deal... yet it is. now i'll get abck to watching the video, i just wanted to point out how up to minute 7 i made(almost) all the same reflections myself.

Phenom coming in hot with the good takes 👍 The only thing I knew about NGNL prior to this video was my friend texting me back when it was airing about how mean the treatment of Steph was lol so you’re not alone in this opinion which I think is great. Seeing a character suffer unrelentingly despite not deserving it is so nasty and really puts a bad taste in my mouth too.

The scene I always remember of Steph, is when [ ] gets shocked that she was managing all of her kingdom's politics and preventing civil war by using her connections and profiles of nobles she went to class with. Which is mostly a scene to get across the idea that [ ] is so intelligent that even other intelligent people (like Steph) seem moronic in comparison. That they can only really compare themselves to pure mad geniuses. But I always characterized her as a smart person held back by lack of education. That she becomes a better gamer by observing others.

You should take a look at the NGNL movie. Lots of people that didn't enjoy Shiro and Sora in the base series, loved the iteration of them in the movie. As for my favorite bullied character.....mmmm....probably Darkness because she is actually into it.

*it's been years since I've watched the anime then read what was available of the novel so some of it might actually be me miss remembering. But the way i always saw steph was the straight man that didn’t have the power or talent to survive in the world (she would thrive in our world) but because she stuck it out and joined shiro and sora she was given the opportunity to grow into a person who could survive in the world (she's probably the only person in the series that actually get personal development and not just all powerful from the beginning, the actual main character if you will). I'm not sure if it was in the anime but I seem to remember she had to take over administration of the kingdom for blank and because of her growth she was more than capable of taking on the job. Though my views on the "bullying" (first time I've seen clips in years) could be summed up as extremely decent fan service that 16-year-old me would of lapped up in a mili-second (she was my favorite character) but 24-year-old me sees as a bit over the top.

Yeah, it does feel weirdly like Steph just gets unrelentingly bullied by the serious with no recourse. It'd be really cool if she at least got thrown the bone by actively contributing to a win once or twice. I think that's a large part of the reason I prefer Mondaiji-tachi ga Isekai kara Kuru Sou Desu yo? over No Game no Life.

Yeah, if you want a redeemable bully done right, I recommend Sasha from Amphibia.

Tappei Nagatsuki loves to bully Subaru

Fully agree on this one. I'm a bit surprised by this being considered a hot take in the community, it's one of the main reasons why I didn't enjoy NGNL all that much, the main characters are cool fr, but they're not really depicted as good people, and Steph's suffering is not justified in the slightest.

@iota-09

Жыл бұрын

i guess the "justification" for steph's suffering is that she is a not-so-smart person in a world where being smart and cunning is everything, thus serving as the opposite counterpart to sora and shiro in the real world... the issue is that we see steph's suffering only at the hands of sora and shiro, who we know have gone through similar suffering, although theirs was not to be taken lightly or as a joke, whereas steph does... isn't that just egotistical and hypocrite from sora and shiro? she REALLY IS just a punching bag for them in that sense, if her presence really is just to "prove that if you're not smart you'll only live a mierable life", but why hard-focus so much on only her when pretty much every other character who loses or isn't particularly smart gets the shaft only when losinga challenge they put forward, whereas steph does so indefinitely? it's just unfair is what i mean, with the justification being one that makes sense, but poorly executed, almost like it's an afterthought. "oh right, i should show that you shouldn't be dumb or you live a miserable life in this world... but that would be sad... oh right! i'm lacking fan service, let's make a joke character for that!" that's how it feels steph was born and it's... not a particularly good sounding reason for her existence as a miserable character. it doesn't even take much thought to have that opinion, in fact, i'm having to think muhc harder to try and justify it, cause if i don't, i only see a fairly good person being living a miserable life due to just making two mistakes(losing to the elf and challenging sora) while the protagonist we're, presumably, supposed to root for(unlike rudy, no attempt is made to make sora seem like somoene we should detest by the author, and in fact, with no other character that i can remember is he such an asshole to) is the one perpetrating such miserable life onto steph.

@akiradkcn

Жыл бұрын

@@iota-09 its just people who didnt readed the novels really, she is constantly comparing herself with Blank, which is dumb by itself, they are way beyond ANYONE's league, not just her. And she eventually shows more growth in the novels, its just that NGNL is more slapstick in its comic delivery overall

@iota-09

Жыл бұрын

@@akiradkcn "just people wo didn't read the novels" that doesnt remove the fact that in the anime it gives a bad rep to the protags(and tbf, i wouldn't really feel that much better using "she compares herself to them" as a good enough justification for the suffering) glad to know she gets some character develoment tho.

I think that if the series had been allowed to progress past the 12 episodes, we'd get some kind of payoff for how Steph is treated... But NGNL 2 is basically the Half Life 3 of anime.

I actually think the basis of Steph is really good. The idea that some people are just not meant for some worlds, where Sora and Shiro was made for the world of Disboard was born on Earth, I feel like Steph is a person that would fit in fantastically on Earth but was born on Disboard. She's not nearly as good at games she needs to be in order to succeed in Disboard. She's EXTREMELY smart, but she's usually only usable as a distraction or an ace no one would expect. She's smart enough to politically divide every single politician in the kingdom and kind hearted enough to fight for a good cause. Sora and Shiro do truly value her in a messed up way though. Sora went through dozens of loopholes in order to prove her ideals right and her thoughts of her grandfather right when he would normally write the idea off almost immediately, simply because unlike Steph he hates most of humanity. Shiro seems to be the best of them in his eyes. But the fact that Sora went out of his own comfort zone of writing off humanity as idiots just to try and see her grandfather as right is something he's never done before, not even to Shiro simply because she's almost always supported his thinking.

@akiradkcn

Жыл бұрын

Thats why we need more season

Yo i just peeped your RE:Zero 4 years later video and i'm wondering if you plan on discussing season 2 in a video? Imo s2 was a masterpiece and now that im into light novels im tryna collect it along side mushoku tensei and eighty-six

9:20 *MR. SATAN THE WORLD CHAMP!!!!!*

You are right on Konosuba being better written than NGNL when it comes to its joke character(s), which makes sense when pretty much your entire show revolves around comedy. What makes me easily accept what NGNL does, is that the premise of the whole NGNL world is that you not only have to be better than your opponents, but it's often preferred that you put your morales to the side and cheat as well as you can. Steph is in the most hostile environment she can be in, and that's what the show constantly reminds the viewer of. Smarts is preferred to kindness in this world. So, while the show doesn't do the best job at expanding on this, at least I can see the reason behind bullying Steph all the time.

@luckyowl10

Жыл бұрын

Everyone from the main cast is a punching bag in Konosuba. They just take turns being stupid. Except some volumes (10-13, if I remember right), Konosuba has solid writing and can pull off a pretty good storyline, even being based on comedy.

@hadoking3636

Жыл бұрын

@@luckyowl10 what's wrong with those volumes

@luckyowl10

Жыл бұрын

@@hadoking3636 it' nothing very wrong with them they are just a bit more repetitive and boring than the other ones. But they add some character development before the last arc of the light novel, which was pretty good.

do you have a music list for your videos?

I've picked up on what you're referring to with steph as the series continued .

Completely agree. Thankfully there'll never be a season 2 for No Game No Life

I agree with this video so much. This is one of the reasons why Cautious Hero is actually insufferable to me and I would drop it after episode 1 if it wasn't for the fact that I'm watching it together with someone else (and the OP is made by MYTH&ROID so that helps a lot too)

Yeah I and tons of others love it when someone gets bullied and harassed

Yes

Based

you should watch no game no life zero (the prequel movie)

I can agree there needs to be balance especially someone as wholehearted as Steph. I can see why Sora and Shiro among others bully her as in so much manipulative or cunning people she is the only normal one, odd one out. But i only saw this as a season 1 and would have been bothered had it also happened in a season 2. I think there is more to Sora and Shiro than just being cool or ass to Steph. Clearly have their own problems to work and build. If you just took Yunyun in season 1 she is a less extreme Steph its only in a follow up was something done. Then again Yunyun isnt as prominent as Steph had she been im sure could say same to her. Also was that the theme of Ben-to playing at end.

I still don’t agree at all since most people complain about people being perfect in anime or As we call them the kirito effect . Where the main character is nice and genuine a good person and most people say they’re blended and uninteresting. But as soon as we get characters who are jerks but are genuinely smart and do have hearts deep down it’s a problem? To be honest the bowling stuff goes through is downright hilarious and it’s much funnier than anything else i’ve seen in KONOSUBA but I think you missed a few things when looking at her and her role. 1. No game no life only has one season and 12 episodes KONOSUBA has two seasons so it’s unfair to compare character for not having scenes or when the scenes probably haven’t happened yet. 2. The only person who actually doesn’t like Steph genuinely is shiro but that’s mainly because she’s jealous as sora comments on how good her cooking is when him and Shiro are eating some donuts. Also he tries his best to prove that her grandfather wasn’t an idiot after he felt like he went to far with roasting her . 3. Steph is not forced to be in love with sora. If you remember her being in love with him was mainly the whole steph o scope thing which was funny. Along with that it is stated by Jabril that stuff was told to fall in love not stay in love. Meaning Steph always had a choice or she may have fallen in love with him but it was her choice to stay in love since he never specified that she had to love him forever. Just saying that I’ve never seen a problem with the way they treat her in fact I find it pretty funny since it’s meant to be funny it’s not taken as a serious thing and because it’s so funny I find them all the more likable along with them being very different main Characters from Your typical nice perfect guy

@ferociousmaliciousghost

Жыл бұрын

The main character being bland and uninteresting usually comes from poor writing. It's like how in a harem, every girl is purely just an archetype. Kirito's kind character is boring because it is an archetype designed to have you imagine yourself as him. He has no purpose other than that. He's not a person who is interacting and living in the world. He's a self insert who is trying to become every reader.

@aresrivera9744

Жыл бұрын

@@ferociousmaliciousghost yeah and when we have a character that’s unique and has his own goals it’s a problem

They are gonna bully the female angelic knight from Archdemon Dilenma and after I read the manga I agree with you!

Honestly if there were more seasons for No Game No Life we would be able to see the growth and respect that is given to Steph in the light novels.

@BarioIDL

11 ай бұрын

lmao XD

imo the only parts that go over the line are the public humiliation and what happens to her during the game with jibril, but even then, the show is so god damn amazing that I can't help but like even those parts

hope they'll sort out those problems with no game no life in the next season (can't wait for it to come out)

@iota-09

Жыл бұрын

🥲

@onlyagermanguy

Жыл бұрын

So these problems will never be sortet out

@akiradkcn

Жыл бұрын

@@onlyagermanguy because there is no problem to be sorted out

I think that most people don't care that much is because a lot of the time she walks into most of those situations herself. And the is also the premise is that this is a world where you can never cross the line without anyone without that person's consent, and that is hard coded into the world.

No I 100% agree tho. Stephanie is the emotional/sympathetic core of the show. The one with the most to grow and learn (the most human in fact) and there for the one who is easiest to connect with. She is the Sokka of this show, the underdog, and the one who is the most out-of-the-loop when it comes to understanding what the plan should be. Sure, Sokka is clowned on a ton, but it's so restrained compared to No Game No Life. Not to mention, just look at how much Sokka steps up as a main fighter in Avatar. The anime is incomplete and I've never read the visual novels so I can't say if Steph grows or is taken more seriously or steps-up to the plate. But even in the short time the story has gone on for, she hasn't done anything to warrant the level of dunking on by that she goes through. Also, I think the fanservice only further made the bullying more tiresome. Like, from my point of view, they're only interested in making her a Mascot character. "Look how, dumb, cute, funny, sexy this character is LOL" etc... This also furthers my belief that you don't need to put someone/something down to make someone else/something else seem greater. I think this is a pretty unnecessary yet common tactic in both IRL argument crafting and story writing. Definately has become more common in super online circles, which is who I also believe is the typical demographic/culture being pandered to in these genres.

@zeemod1556

Жыл бұрын

I think one of the reasons why KonoSuba side steps things is because characters put each other down but it always blows up in their face. They're not making themselves any greater or better by doing so and you love to see the cathersis that comes from them losing that dynamic. I call this the Always Sunny effect. Maybe there's an earlier show that exemplifies it better but if there is I haven't seen it.

@iota-09

Жыл бұрын

@@zeemod1556 considering i avoided konosuba for that exact reason(how can i like an anime where NO ONE is a decent human being? just because it's comedy? sounds like something only lovers of slapstick a la tom&jerry or wile e coyote would enjoy) any example of that? any example of how i might enjoy konosuba tehe way i liked ngnl?(that is, byy trying to ignore what was done to steph)

Great video. Now just watch the movie

I agree with your take and would say that Aqua is also another good example While she isn't bullied by the other characters, outside of Kazuma, she is definitely bullied by the universe in that she almost never gets a win and is absolutely useless But it is balanced off by the fact that her ego is so absurdly inflated that even despite her being a literal walking L, she absolutely never acknowledges it in the most insanely dellusional matter possible, which directly leads her to actively bullying others (mainly Kazuma and background characters) which is usually the reason why she fails so miserably and, even in the situations where it is Kazuma bullying her, she either deserves it or he eventually stops and goes "ok, that's enough, let's go grab a bite", not to mention the times he (and the other girls) literally put their lives on the line to save Aqua's useless ass in the most pathetic way possible

Frankly I think you just gotta take a few steps back and not think so hard about this. I kinda understand where you're coming from, but I really don't think it's that deep. I don't see the problem with there being a character who's bullied and doesn't ever have someone lift them up. Land of the Lustrous is the perfect example of this. It's my favorite anime/manga and I know you love it too. You should know that Phos is relentlessly bullied, both directly and indirectly, by just about everyone to the point of ending up where they are now. Even if you just looked at the anime before it gets incredibly depressing in the manga, Phos fits into the Steph archetype.

@BeefRank

Жыл бұрын

Huge disagree with the Phos comparison. So different on many points. Firstly, Phos brings most of her suffering upon herself directly due to her own actions. This is not the case with Steph. Secondly, phos is kind of a bad person. She gets bullied by other gems because she’s lazy, selfish, and naive, and inconsiderate. What’s the justification for Steph being bullied so much? Also, you say it’s not deep, but the suffering phos goes through has a point. It’s extremely important to the development of the character and plot, while Steph is played for laughs. They are not even close to being in the same archetype. A better example would someone like Saiki’s dad from Saiki K, a comedy/gag anime that doesn’t take itself seriously.

@Purpletrident

Жыл бұрын

@@BeefRank What do you mean, everyone clowns on Phos whether for good reason or not. It's not only because of them being lazy or inconsiderate. Also I never said Phos wasn't a deep character? And no other gem thinks Phos is a bad person for a very long time, they all love Phos. And no, Phos' pain wasn't only from themselves, it was from everyone blindly loving Kongo and Kongo keeping so many secrets to make Phos suspicious of them. You're getting a lot of things mixed up there.

@BeefRank

Жыл бұрын

@@Purpletrident You're kind of putting a lot of words in my mouth that I didn't say. I never said that Phos was shit on for good reason or that the gems thought Phos was a bad person. You didn't actually refute that their pain was caused by their own actions, you just gave an example of what inspired those actions. Even then, the other gems knew Kongo was keeping secrets, yet it was only Phos that sacrificed everything because of their own hubris, shortsightedness, and inconsideration. It's clearly meant to be tragic, unlike the bullying Steph goes through which is played for laughs. "Also I never said Phos wasn't a deep character?" Yet you're using them as a parallel to Steph, whose bullying you seem to agree is not important or consequential to their story. That's all I have a problem with. You can't say they fit the same archetype just because they both suffer. Please just help me understand your original statement.

@iota-09

Жыл бұрын

i genuinely cannot see how a greek tragedy-like character that is quite literally forced to prove themselves to be the most human being on the planet and a slapstick comedy butt-of-the-joke character who dd nothing wrong other than "not be smart and cunning enough" can be compared.

Stephny dola Gets her self in the situations when she challenges the two main leads to games. Who are smartest characters in that world. When she full well knows she’ll lose.

I completed agree with everything you said. Steph’s treatment in NGNL kinda ruined the experience for me, for the very reasons you outline. I find I am also drawn to stories of legitimately kind people being sincerely good to one another. I guess some people are just a bit more empathetic than others.

8:14 real shit

@setsana_inc

Жыл бұрын

11:22 real shit x2

slander

you know what? now im trying this video right here and 2 min. in, i kinda agree. this is a fun channel for me. what i kinda agree is that i cannot emotionally connect with mc especially in vanishing episodes not just becuz they are not likable. but for steph's part, i mean, isn't she used as a comical relief? but i get your point tho.

The hottest take.

"the two main characters are assholes" Ah, so they're true gamers

So true. I couldn’t help but hate NGNL because the main characters just seemed like narcissistic sociopaths who got off on humiliating other people

Based opinion. The show could’ve been even better if we actually respected the mc’s. Also love the soundtracks u got in the background

Sage I think you are missing a piece of the information. Ngnl for the most part is a power fantasy between a god testing candidates for godhood. If you imagine Sora and Riku are arrogant enough to expect something like this would happen, you can also stretch it to they'd dehumanize the most human person possible to prove their candidacy. It's not supposed to be funny, it's supposed to be horrible, and I think it's intentional. The problem with ngnl is they hyper focus just on Steph in this regard, but it does have the effect of invoking the injustice felt by the audience, so in a way it does have the effect, otherwise this video wouldn't exist.

@iota-09

Жыл бұрын

the issue is if they don't it's never gonna prove it's point, but if they overdo while it would prove the point better and make steph less of a scapegoat it it's just gonna alienate even further the audience from the protagonist... honestly the point still stands, just give some catharsis to steph sooner or later, or maybe turn off that hypnosis spell and give her actual reason to stick with sora and shiro so at least the bullying doesn't feel forced like it currently does.

@akiradkcn

Жыл бұрын

@@iota-09 lmao, thats why the words of people who actually read the source material will have more value even if it makes me look like a snob, its literally, directly stated. That she is not under the spell of that game rules anymore, they rule was to fall in love but not to be in love forever. Its not even surprising, even in the already adapte material of the anime they made clear how loose and easily exploitable the rules can be, her love is (now) genuine

HARD agree on No Game No Life, I dropped the show a few episodes in because the 'you are destined to fall in love with me' plot was so horrible, it's like taking free will away from someone for the sake of cruelty.

Im not too far in to the video but i just wanted to say i find it really interesting that you couldnt enjoy sora and shiro as much as protags wheras i like them a lot while on the other end you love mushoku tensei but for me personally i couldnt get past the beginning of ep 2 because of its protag. No shade intended just think its really interesting

@iota-09

Жыл бұрын

i wonder if it's because of tone? mushoku sets out a tone of seriousness and humanity to be rpoven as well as a focus on character growth, it pushes you tosee rudy grow, whereas ngnl does't really give you any hint that shiro and sora will grow in anything but power, reach and understanding of the world. it depries the viewer of an expectation of catharsis, while at the same time asking ngnl viewers to take things at face value and as mere "fun", while mushoku, at least in some versions, asks the reader to try and think deeper about it, taking a step back and ask "hm, yeah, that shouldn't actually make me laugh, and the other characters too know it, so why was this shown then...?" i feel, at least speaking for myself and my theories, that might be the reason for liking rudy but hating sora.

@bubbalubber

Жыл бұрын

@@iota-09 I think for me it might have been down to how assholish they were and the intention behind it. Sora and Shiros assholery was more from a sense of superiority mixed with being a result of how their lives had gone, especially when you get the bit where Sora talks about how he met Shiro. Their crappyness also never got too terrible to me, there was always those moments mixed in where the asshole front Sora puts up seemingly as a defense against getting hurt himself would soften and youd get moments like Sora telling Gibril not to underestimate imanity. Theres probably an element of nostalgia to it, where i watched ngnl whn i was younger and more tollerant of bs, so stuff i might find egregious or offputting now ends up dulled by nostalgia and farmiliarity with the chracter. Meanwhile with mushoku his actions where a lot more malicious (using his status as a child to sexually assault women without consequences) and were a lot worse than anything Sora or Shiro did (skipping his own parets funeral to watch porn). Rudy had nothing about him in that first ep and a bit that made me want to see how he grew, he was just so offputting so early that it was just a hurdle i couldnt get over and so how he may or may not grow and improve didnt really end up mattering to me.

@iota-09

Жыл бұрын

@@bubbalubber tb fi only read the manga of mushoku so that puts me in not a great position to judge it when everyone else watched the anime only instead... but regarding the moral reasons, it's interesting... i actually find the reason for sora's, the feeling of supriority, to be much worse than the situational "well i'm a kid so i can do it and nobody will bat an eye" not that rudeus isn't an ass eh, but i guess i can understand the temptation of doing something you didn't think of possible compared to doing something just cause you feel like doing it? honestly, it's super subjective when put in those terms.

To be honest, the only time I watched the series I really just thought Stephanie was just the but of every joke because they never actually showed some development in her character. I mean with all her goodness, I felt that her naiveness was the main reason she was treated like that. But then I watched the movie... And then I got to know her ancestor, and that really made me think Stephanie was a wasted opportunity if you corelate the characters from the movie with the ones in the series, that was the moment I stopped wanting a season 2 actually.

well we have to remember that girl begged them to help her.. and they only want to play games they made that clear...and if I remember it right in the first episode it's the game of if I win you do whatever I want then when they win it starts the punching bag of you become in love with me or something like that

I didn't see No Game, No Life. But from the video, I can say that it's a bit disgusting how Stephanie is treated. I agree that Redeus may be a bit more acceptable than the protagonists from NGNL. (At least if you don't consider his disgusting monologue. I appreciate that the anime adaptation cut a lot of them. Those monologues make him even more disgusting). When you talked about punching bag I thought you talked about our beloved Lalatina. She is the ultimate punching bag that loves being one. Yun Yun at least gets better until the end of the LN series. Darkness is a constant mess of horniness and kinks. In Konosuba everyone in the main cast is a punching bag, so we don't mind.

I agree I hate it when a character is relentlessly bullied for NO RESON

Okay idol-lover. Lol jk no bully plz. On a real note though I definitely have become obsessed with dynamic writing recently after watching MHA recently and how vapid the writing can be and then how kinda great some of it is. Never thought how great Yunyun's addition actually is and why I liked her. Especially since you see how Yunyun has affected Megumin growing up together since her parents clearly weren't arbiters of justice.

@thomasffrench3639

10 ай бұрын

Well a lot of idol shows are better than NGNL

“…I’m no snowflake…” **gets shaken by treatment of a fictional character** lol Hey, how about we let the creator make art they want, without us trying to push OUR social causes on them? If it’s things that are truly bad for society or our fee-fees, then the more we should let them exist - as guides on how NOT to be IRL? Ultimately, when it comes to things I don’t like in anime… If I don’t like it, I don’t watch it.

@iota-09

Жыл бұрын

you know you can like things and criticize things without DEMANDING that the creator of said things does as you say right? it's an advice and/or critique, not an order.

@kaije7art

Жыл бұрын

Maybe you should just apply the last line of your comment to watching YT videos as well, so that you don't have to remove your foot from your mouth?

I think you don't understand the premise. The idea is that the main characters are otaku and are sent to a world desinged in such a way for otaku type personality's to succeed and that is why they are better then everyone else. Steph is ment to represent a norime who doesn't have the otaku worldview and thusly can't be successful. She is supposed to show the viewers a person to avoid being in contrast to the aspirational main characters. Ultimately No Game No Life is a piece of otaku oriented media so obviously it's going to pander to that demographic, and if you didn't realize it you just aren't part of that demographic. It's fine not to be, but writing with demographic in mind isn't a flaw of the show.

@iota-09

Жыл бұрын

if that's the case, that just proves the show is in bad taste... which honestly, i don't believe that's the case, because steph is the only one that gets the shaft, everyone else does well. it's not baout "not being a normie" it's about being smart... at least that's i feel the core of the anime is, after all, are any of sora's opponents(the grampa aside) otakus like him? i don't remember so... especially the elf, she's just a fairly regular and somewhat smart assassin if memory serves, she may not be normal by our world's standards but for a fantasy world? totally normal, and so is steph, the only difference is that steph doesn''t have the smarts everyone else does, otherwise other "normie" characters would also get the shaft... honestly, i think you're wrong, that, or the series really is in bad taste when it comes to handling catharsis.

Wel yes... All your minisus are plusses to me. I would not call her a joke character at all though. She is the literal normie princess and Sora/Shiro take out there frustrations on her exactly because of that.

Here we go social justice anime rant...

@akiradkcn

Жыл бұрын

I can believe him when he says hes not snowflake but... I dont think he understands slapstick comedy

Lost me when when you insinuated there was anything good about Konosuba.

if I want ethical treatment I listen to a feminist audiobook. To anime is to suffer, or go bankrupt

Your taking this too far. Lmao i really dont understsnd your take

Shit take + didn't make me cry