It makes me think if Joseph had an illegitimate child with one or multiple secretaries. Was he like Beatrice's husband and had kids outside of his marriage?

@iceluvndiva21

Ай бұрын

That honestly wouldn't surprise me

@Neku628

Ай бұрын

@@iceluvndiva21 So, Bojack might have several cousins, aunts and uncles that we aren't aware of.

@LizLuvsCupcakes

Ай бұрын

@@Neku628 Hey, maybe Beatrice and the rest of the Horsemans are the part of the Sugarman family that everyone just kind of doesn't talk about.

@Grapejuice190

Ай бұрын

Besides not having enough runtime to include that side of the family’s entire problems, I believe that they didnt portray that in Joseph because a lot of older folk were taught that adultery and having children while unwedded was bad in every way possible from religious aspects to just morals it wasn’t a thing that was talked about or done very often especially with higher “ranked” families and individuals like Joseph to him that would probably be cause for a lobotomy since it would considered barbaric

To be fair, lobotomies had their popularity peak in the 40s. And it was still considered a legitimate and viable solution for these issues up until the 50s when the use of drugs and electric treatments substitute it because they were less invasive

Bro Honey was a boy mom. Raised a son she’d see as an ideal man. Admits she doesn’t love her daughter as much as her son.

@redrasegarden

Ай бұрын

Did she? Maybe she was still grieving

@undeadprincess5726

Ай бұрын

I don't remember her stating such, could you elaborate?

@Grapejuice190

Ай бұрын

Makes sense as to why Beatrice ended up projecting hatred onto her only son it’s just one piece of the puzzle that is the reasoning for her to chastise and regret bojack

@redrasegarden

Ай бұрын

@@Grapejuice190 yes and no. What sticks out to me is what her mother said to her “ never love someone as much as I love crackerjack” (which in my opinion does not indicate that she loved her son more than her daughter, just that she loved him a lot and misses him a lot) so she probably thought it was safer to harden her heart.

@Grapejuice190

Ай бұрын

@@redrasegarden right but as a child it means something completely different and it’s also apart of who her mother was before she “died” in Beatrice’s eyes, with no other choice thats present I think she would’ve chosen to internalize that for a long time rather than to take it with a grain of salt. It sort of follows the principle of respect your elders, which is what a lot of children were taught back then.

joseph maybe was a produt of his time, but the level of neglet was on a level that he neglets his family was beyond ruthless. You can´t deny that he destroyed beatrice´s childhood forever. However, beatrice also didn´t tried to breake te cycle because of the status that she didn´t wanted to lost.

@spinohawk

Ай бұрын

I don't understand as much how folks say "products of their time" when most people (especially us poors) didn't have the "luxury" of being sexist. The women in my family have always had to work in one form or another, and there was a mutual respect between husband and wife.

"How do you get over the death of your own child?" Honestly, you don't. It just gets a little easier to deal with over time. But you're never fully over it.

all of this product of his time talk got me thinking of a recommendation. king of the hill, when they get the Vietnam vets to join the VFW. think about it, the WWII vets are repressing the trauma and even joke around about it while the Vietnam vets are bawling their eyes out.

Joseph was ill equipped to be a decent person, and so he projected it onto everyone in his life.

I always loved that scene when the mom comes up, nothing more than a shadow. Because at that point, she was nothing more than a shadow of her former self, and even at that young age Beatrice could see that

Joseph, burning his daughter's stuff, gives a nightmare ptsd of an event i have seen before in person. I won't go in details.

Bojack is one of the heaviest cartoons I have ever seen and I am so glad they were bold enough to tackle these topics!

Simba told me he loved the Matthew Broderick tea

The short answer is, everything. Everything he did destroyed his family.

I find J. Sugarman more sympathetic than Butterscotch.

@radpea7500

Ай бұрын

Yeah he was a product of his time, his son died, he seemed to feel guilt about the lobotomy as for Butterscotch we know like nothing besides his mom dying

@dylanmcdermott1110

Ай бұрын

@@radpea7500 To me, J. Sugarman acted with the best intentions. Butterscotch selfishly wallowed in his misery and made excuses, while treating his family like crap.

@fareseno8055

Ай бұрын

​@@dylanmcdermott1110 Kinda like BoJack no?

@hexaitine

Ай бұрын

@@dylanmcdermott1110 I think the point radpea had is that not knowing anything about Butterscotch is why it is so hard to sympathize with him. We just see him being a piece of shit the whole time. Beatrice was also very difficult to sympathize with and seemed unreasonable until we heard her backstory. She still sucks, but you can sympathize, just like with BoJack. Joseph's actions are terrible, but again, there is reason for it.

@radpea7500

Ай бұрын

@@hexaitine I'd say empathize is a better word everyone in the Horseman family were bad people but they all had reasons for being that way yet that doesn't excuse their actions

Two of my biggest gripes with Joseph was- 1. He was gonna try and marry off Beatrice just to increase his business. 2. The worst thing he ever did imo at least, Was having his own wife Lobotomized.

@bitterflywing

Ай бұрын

In his defense (which I never thought I'd be defending this) but back then women weren't hired by a lot of people, so he was at least trying to marry her to someone who would have taken good care of her. (and corbin was at least nice and had stuff in common with her) The lobodomy on the otherhand was actually fairly new in the 50s and falsely advertized (and was sort of honey's idea when she told him to "fix" her) But it's like when a parent gives medication to a six year old. He didn't know better, and regretted the lobotomy.

@jfournerat1274

Ай бұрын

It probably doesn’t help that Joseph Sugarman was also anti semtic towards Jewish people.

@anomalocaris2593

Ай бұрын

​@@bitterflywingPeople don't bring that part of lobotomy to the open as much. It is a painful history, but it was the best people knew back then. However when side effects did show up and anti-psychotics were found the creator still kept pushing lobotomy either because of glory or monetary benefit

@Nsinger998

Ай бұрын

​@@jfournerat1274 example?

@jfournerat1274

Ай бұрын

@@Nsinger998 he literally blamed the Jews for Crackerjacks death with him saying that they peeved the Austrian Painter off so bad which is wrong on so many levels. Jewish people had nothing to do with causing ww2 and the only reason the Austrian Painter hated them was because he was a adamant racist.

He seems like a horrible person when you think of him in the context of todays sociciety, but back then? My mans essentially a god send. He burned her things so shw wouldn't get scarlet fever again and die, he was upset when Honey almost killed herself and Beatrice, she tried marrying her off to someone rich, which again, back then, meant she would be supported when he died, etc.

@MasterHappychipmunk

Ай бұрын

And ironically enough the guy he was marrying bea off to would’ve been a better partner to her than the actual man she married.

@Tommedian

Ай бұрын

I think that’s kind of the point. To show that what was seen as good back then is absolutely horrible and the fact that it was considered acceptable doesn’t justify it.

@BrandonScott-mi5pz

Ай бұрын

GREAT KITTY MONK BOJACK HORSEMAN JOSEPH SUGARMAN RUINED OWN FAMILY,

@lolwhat6161

Ай бұрын

@@Tommedian Exactly

@lolwhat6161

Ай бұрын

Ok but still the scene where he accuses Honey about Beatrice’s scarlet fever outside their daughter’s bedroom despite knowing his own wife is lobotomized still doesn’t justify him as a good person.

HE WAS MATHEW BRODERICK!!!! How did I not know this until now! The episode came out like 7 years ago! I’ve known Honey was Jane Krakowski and Crackerjack was Lin Manuel Miranda for years!

I think joseph would be considered a jerk even of his time.

I'm grateful my dissociative disorder wiped my childhood memories into a locked safe. I don't want to remember the trauma that broke me

I don't think Joseph disinherited Beatrice when she ran off with Butterscotch. It seems more like Beatrice first wanted to live off of Butterscotch as a housewife and be a happy family without her father. But then became embittered and asked Joseph for help, so he to offered Butterscotch a job at his company. Butterscotch isn't VIP because well... he sucks. Butterscotch is known to be a poor worker. Also if Joseph just gave Beatrice money then Butterscotch would spend it without earning it. Butterscotch blew Beatrice's inheritance after Joseph died. There was probably a good reason why Joseph didn't just give Beatrice money. She was an adult. Sure he can help out financially if they were really struggling but why would he give her money just to hire nannies and cooks? Not to mention Butterscotch's salary did provide enough money to support his wife and child. As a blue-collar worker back then in the 60s could support a family on a single income. But it was Beatrice who wanted help to clean, cook, and raise Bojack. Motherhood wasn't the job that Beatrice was suited for. Joseph probably knew that Butterscotch made enough to support his family. They were surviving but not thriving. Beatrice had a degree, she could have become breadwinner instead. It didn't seem like Beatrice even bothered to look for work. While during the time men mostly worked as breadwinners, women were also breadwinners too. Especially in cases when the husband was unable to work for whatever reasons. They could have claimed Butterscotch was injured so Beatrice could become breadwinner. Even if Joseph wanted Beatrice to become his heir to his company it's doubtful Beatrice would even want to. She doesn't seem to want to work.

Whoa whoa whoa! Matthew Broderrick didnt murder people. He was completely sober and he had a head on collision driving in Ireland because he didnt see the car coming from around the curve.

@12fuzzyrats

Ай бұрын

Yes! Thank you! I've also seen an interview where he was talking about it and how guilty he felt, he looked like he was about to cry. It's honestly messed up how Kitty keeps making fun of him for it.

@hamberger837

Ай бұрын

@@12fuzzyrats It was tragic and it shouldn't of happened, but I don't think he should suffer for the rest of his life because of an accident.

@12fuzzyrats

Ай бұрын

@@hamberger837 I didn't say that he should, I said he was still feeling guilty about it. I want him to be able to move on (if he hasn't already) and people like Kitty Monk continuously bringing it up and shaming him for it doesn't help. Sorry if I wasn't clear in my first comment.

@hamberger837

Ай бұрын

@@12fuzzyrats I wasn't talking about you, I was talking about how people view it in general.

@12fuzzyrats

Ай бұрын

@@hamberger837 Sorry, I misunderstood. You are %100 right though, it baffles me how others don't get it.

Honestly i was shocked when I realized this repugnant character was played by Matthew Broderick aka Simba himself

I'm not totally sure why but if you have one horse and it lives alone they get lonely easily and the best way to remedy that without buying a second horse is to house a goat in the stall with the horse.

Ooh dang got some animated Velveteen Rabbit flashbacks with that scene

I didn't know he was voiced by Matthew Broderick or based on jfk's father. Kitty, you've inspired me to learn about the past.

This one is going to be long one

I read somewhere that Honey's lobotomy location is correct for horses

19:49 -19:53 Imagine if one was to take that like that and have it animated with Simba in the lion king saying that to his daughter…

Hi Kitty Monk, I like how you referenced SML when you said in half.

@ShockMe1994

Ай бұрын

Wasn’t SML referencing something too?

@BrandonScott-mi5pz

Ай бұрын

EXCELLENT WORK. KITTY MONK BOJACK HORSEMAN JOSEPH SUGARMAN DEFENDING HIS

I think Joseph is a product of his time honestly. That time period your public image was more important than personal desires. Men were taught to suck it up and show no emotion. Men were the bread winners of the family and the boss of it. Women listened to their husbands and managed the house and kids. Kids were seen and not heard meaning their opinions didnt matter. They did as they were told. Also lobotomies at the time were seen as cutting edge medicine at the time. There were no psychiatric drugs and psychiatry was in its infancy. We knew nothing about anything mental health back then and it was either a lobotomy or go to an asylum. Their family seemed very happy and traditional for the time period. Of course some things we would see as toxic today like Beatrice only being allowed lemons for snacks to watch her weight but again that was very typical at the time because how you looked to others was important. Cracker Jack dying was nobody's fault and it led to Honey going insane with grief. Joseph, being a typical man at the time period, didnt know how to deal with emotion because he was always told to suck it up and bottle it up and be a leader for his family and business. But even if he did show emotion I dont think Honey's mental issues would have been something he could deal with. Not even doctors at the time knew what to do. Honey was becoming a danger to herself and others with her outbursts and drinking and she did almost kill herself and Beatrice in the car which I can absolutely see why Joseph would be angry about that. Everyone knew Honey had a problem and they didnt know what to do about it. Again, not even doctors at the time knew. But lobotomies were knew and exciting and promised to be a miracle cure so I'm sure Joseph thought this would solve everything. Honey was also begging to be cured but we dont know how she felt about the lobotomy. It's very possible that she was all for it when told it would cure her. Afterward, it is possible Joseph felt horrible for what happened to Honey but he didnt show it. Or maybe he never thought about it because he was always taught to never have emotions. Or maybe he really did become an abusive prick. Hard to tell. And burning Beatrice's toys was necessary at the time because of the disease she had. Also the "you dont want to end up like your mother" bit could have been an abusive control method or maybe just a genuine warning because he saw how unchecked emotions can destroy a person. The diet pills, typical of the time. Wanting her to marry a nice man, typical of the time. Not wanting her to get a degree, typical. Marrying her off to Creamerman, again typical of wealthy/royal families. That was even going on well into the 80s with Princess Diana. They didnt genuinely love each other. They were put together because Charles was getting older and needed to produce heirs for the royal family line. Not saying that what Joseph did was ok or that there werent better ways to do this but i dont think he's the evil irredeemable monster everyone thinks he is. He's a product of a time that we have grown out of. Alot of men were just like him at the time. And in 50 years im sure we will look back at our own time period and find things that are horrible and think "how could they be that way?!" But to us here right now, this is normal.

@chickenpermission1861

Ай бұрын

Yeah, I agree. This happens a lot with historical figures/stories, where we look at it as if they were raised with our modern sensibilities. In terms of taking care of Bea, Joseph went above and beyond for her throughout her life. He sent her to college (mostly to try and find a good husband), tried to arrange a stable marriage for her and then forgave her for ditching Corbin and her debutant party. He didn’t say SHIT when she got pregnant out of wedlock and was married to a nobody while visibly pregnant, and when she needed him, he gave her shitty husband a great job with no fuss. Even him burning her things in the night was likely done so he could get it done and then explain it to her in the morning. And he was abusive, no doubt, emotionally and mentally and probably a little physically if we consider corporal punishment, but if we were to really look at his actions and what was happening, he was a decent enough father all things considered.

0:43 Kitty monk is the last person i'd ever expect to reference SML lol-

Joe reminds me of Rhett Butler and John Bouvier

Joseph was a weakling king.

Why i have half a mind to like this video.

Amazing video as always! Also Simba :3

It was so sad to learn about Prince Philip's sister who died in that plane crash

I am honestly not surprised that Bojack knew about his maternal grandfather even if he never spent any time with him. In a later episode after he had a near death experience he met several deceased people from his past one of which included Crackerjack and upon seeing him Bojack recognized him as his uncle. Bojack likely heard of Crackerjack when he was a child either from members of his family or by other people who had known his uncle.

The Interesting Thing about Joseph Sugarman is he is [as said before] a Product of his Time but it doesn't Excuse his Abuse and other Crimes [even if it was Technically Acceptable back then], Especially when Ariana Alexis Discussed about the Context of Morality, Societal Expectations, Evolution of Society, Societal Standards, Historical Evolution so on and so Forth. kzread.info/dash/bejne/YoGVyJSdY8jRYLw.html

Why is this video how I find out Mathew Brodrick was responsible for a fatal car crash????

Did Joseph even love his son? Did he not even grief the slightest for his death?

@noraunhappy

Ай бұрын

I’m sure he did, just in the way men at the time were taught to. Privately, quietly, and internally.

@letsparty3106

Ай бұрын

I think men weren't supposed to show those kinds of emotions back in the day but I do feel like he did love his son very much.

@IJustAnimateThatsTheJist

Ай бұрын

Probably. Grief was taught to be suppressed because people dying was normally just considered a "part of life". Just before his time, you could have 10+ kids with most of them dying in early infancy/childhood. Even though grief can be extremely traumatizing, they had the "get over it" attitude back then. (And with the Sugarmans and Bojack's main thing being generational trauma, it would make sense that, like Bojack and Beatrice, he was both a victim and perpetrator of the cycle they were all caught in.)

@op-qn4kb

Ай бұрын

Maybe with his secretary

Simba

@bsanchez3563

Ай бұрын

Lambert and Alikae from disney books/Madagascar respictevely hehe/Simba.. huh suddenly Simba seems like a more in depth version of uh.. oh yeah Lambpert/Lampbert fwiw..imho anyways..

@bsanchez3563

Ай бұрын

Yo yo I just thought a cool idea, if this is not been done before bringing it back to ol school imho but fwiw if they can make a sims franchise comeback by making the sims 4 a remake of it titled and based upon Los Vegas/LV an even include the LA raiders even though its now the Vegas raiders I ckeep tjinking La raiders but fwiw yeah and call it SiMcity 4 or better yet for avoiding confusion.. "Sims for Sincity" or no wait best of all "Sims for Simcity.. now featuring the the Simcity Raiders" Playing off of the hype given for a qiock cash grab from the sports fans fwiw just because I know of how the videogames of sports take a 60usd or so fwiw an then fairly quickly go down upwards of about 40isd from just a uear or two out from release vs other games going UP in value..

I often watch Bojack Horseman in a passive way and quite a lot of stuff just passes by without me noticing how effed up things can be like for instance the comment on 04:11, this whole thing where J Sugarman knows what he says, to who he says it and believing it's not a big of a deal.

I thought Barnard was a barn pond because there horses

Matt Broderick would be great at voicing Lois's brother Pat if you want another celebrity to do the job.

7:06 are we really just going to move on from this line?

@sayjinpat4life

Ай бұрын

Many business people who were not Jews like what he said. Henry Ford thought so.

woah... I just realized I figured it would just be dangerous for one that is pregnant to still work because of it being kind of idk if debilotating is accurate but like.. the presumably to the exent that it is a feat to sit up and be abke to roll up and get bacj out of bed each morning just like if ones using crutches because.. well tbh it gets annoying from the discomfort of using crutches after a day or so if not after just 3 days... I recall imho it was an I just decided I would rather the discomfort of using my foot even before it fully stopped hurting in iirc 7th grade as id..kind of impailed myself indavertebtly through wearing hiking boots to jump on a broken toy to try breaking it open.. but it just went up through the boot. But I decided after the 4th day nah I am not doing that an decided to just walk on both legs. 10:37 man it feels even if it is gonna sound negative of me.. a lot of the past seems pretty miserable or awful of a time for those that were in any given eras time frames.. to have to have lived in those.. like man fr ngl.

I love the little SML references. Makes me nostalgic.

The “one day it’ll all be a memory” thing always gets to me… saying that is just a way toxic and abusive people use to invalidate the victim’s feelings and the trauma and other damage caused. Yeah, it does become a memory but it also leaves scars!

0:11 Miasma

NEW BOJACK ESSAY ‼️‼️‼️

I love kitty monk

The IIIIINNNNN HAAAAALLLLLFF from Cody is too iconic

W vid

57 minutes ago 🤭🤭 I love Kitty Monk

E

Simba