Great explanation and great animations! Your videos just keep getting better and better! Nice work!

@RimstarOrg

10 жыл бұрын

Thanks! The animations are a lot of fun to do.

@austinlane9154

2 жыл бұрын

InstaBlaster

This is a great explanation. Read about lifters in a visual novel recently that didn't really give an explanation as to how it worked or even what it is. This fills that gap perfectly.

So the big question is, can an ion lifter produce enough lift to carry its own high voltage power supply, some passengers, a bathroom, a kitchen, and a living room?

@idea1407

6 жыл бұрын

Hsfh Fejtpo you would have to make one. I was thinking of using solar panels, batteries, and a custom transformer.

@cmill8465

6 жыл бұрын

They use them in space on satellites with a liquified gas where gravity isnt a factor.

@wuanbrown4424

6 жыл бұрын

The military does

@evanwatling3897

6 жыл бұрын

Sure. Just scale it up.

@MeepChangeling

4 жыл бұрын

Yes. If you could produce enough power... We'll probably have to wait for fusion.

A wonderful, compelling explanation. Well done!

Great physics explanation! The rollerblades analogy was a nice touch.

Earlier on I decided I wanted to learn exactly how ion propulsion works. Thanks for uploading this

@RimstarOrg

10 жыл бұрын

You're welcome. Glad to hear it was timely.

great explanation

@RimstarOrg

10 жыл бұрын

Thanks.

Extremely well-explained!

Sir, that is remarkable presentation, thank you.

Brilliantly explained, thanks

This video helped me a lot, thank you.

Thank you, It's very clear comments!

Very good job on the video. Refreshing! Especially if you just watched zombo TV box.

Thanks so very much, that was the most clear and easy to digest information about ion propulsion I have ever heard, mere words cannot express my sincere gratitude to you. Big smiles from me to you!! 😊 P.s. I have already made one lifter type in the past without much success but with this added information I'm most certain I can do it now.

Thanks for your high quality videos andr explanation

Wonderful explanation.

Nice style of explaining.

Great explanation Thank you!

Great explanation and also great to see you are still working with these devices. I see you still have my old PDFs on your site :) If you want to collaborate on making a stronger force, let me know and we can see if we can come up with some ideas.

@RimstarOrg

9 жыл бұрын

Leon Tribe Thanks. Great hearing from you again. From what I can tell from analytics, your PDFs still get some looking over each month. I'm not really working on these devices anymore, I'm more showing them to people who've never seen them before.

Really nice explanation

Thanks for all of your ultra-high-quality videos--it is rare to find someone who has the gift of true teaching (which requires core knowledge of the subject). This allows others with the potential to excel quickly. After studying your "how ion propulsion works" video, I would like to ask your opinion on something. I have the requirement to set up TWO independent spark gaps--one, let's say points north-south, and the other east-west. They are at about the same level and will intersect each other, however, their high voltage power supply's are 100% isolated capacitors, no common grounds, etc. I would like to ensure that if the two arcs fire simultaneously that no electrical connection or current path will be present--sort of like light or sound,i.e once passed the "region of crossing" it is as if neither was aware the other existed!! Any ideas on this construction? Thanks MUCH, --dalE

@RimstarOrg

8 жыл бұрын

+dale nassar Unfortunately sparks are not like light. If I understand you correctly, I don't see how this can work. Each sphere will spark to the one closest to it that is at the opposite polarity.

Very well explained! Thanks for posting!

@RimstarOrg

10 жыл бұрын

Thanks! Glad you like it!

@makerj101

10 жыл бұрын

Now I have to build one that I can rid around on!!! :)

Amazing video. The action Lab made a video about ion propulsion and I wanted to know more, so here I am :)

Wondering how I my ion propelled Enterprise worked? Or how a lifter or other ionocraft works? All is revealed in this new video. Enjoy!

@EpicBunty

10 жыл бұрын

why do you tie your lifter? infact almost all the ionocraft videos ive seen, the lifter has been taped/tied to the ground quite closely. why not just let it fly straight up then lower the voltage and get it down ?

@RimstarOrg

10 жыл бұрын

EpicBunty The three sides of a lifter produce varying thrust in different amounts. Since there's no independent control for each side, if the lifter weren't tied down then it would fly erratically all over the place, within the limits of the feed wires. So the thrust is turned up such that the threads are all being pulled tightly. That means that two sides are thrusting more than they need to be and the third side is thrusting just enough to keep the threads on that side tight.

@EpicBunty

10 жыл бұрын

i thought so! how erratic is it ? I'm sure with a little bit of experimenting and tinkering you can make a model which flies stably.. right? or have you not played around enough ?

@RimstarOrg

10 жыл бұрын

EpicBunty It can be very erratic. I've played around a lot because you often have to do that just to get it so that all sides are thrusting enough just to get off the ground. It appears as though the more sides you have, the more stable you can get it. I guess many more sides averages out the differences in different areas. So the lifters made up of many triangles tend to be more stable. But I've still never seen anyone be able to remove the threads.

@EpicBunty

10 жыл бұрын

wow! thanks for the info. If you ever do end up finding a video of a stable lifter, mind sending me a link ?

Great explanation

Fantastic video!

Great explanation,

Great video

Outstanding Sir. Great explanation. My electric shop teacher told us about the "theory " of thi back in 1974, making a working model is another story. 73 OM

@Randy2747

2 жыл бұрын

They have made a drone using this method Technology is fucking amazing! kzread.info/dash/bejne/h3uBlqyRhqWbdrA.html

The best explanation ever.

Thaks , its a really helpfull explanation !

Great video! Thanks for explaining this, but I'm really curious how switching the polarity works. Would electrons be pushed towards the smooth end and cause ionic wind?

@RimstarOrg

9 жыл бұрын

Brainscrawler Roughly speaking, yes. See starting here en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corona_discharge#Mechanism_of_corona_discharge for more about the differences between the positive and negative coronas.

Great video!

Best video explanation 👍👍👍👍

Thanks. This is good stuff.

Really awesome!

Sir U are classy👍👍👍 Thanks for the video

great vid!

Awesome stuff.

Nicely done thank you.

@RimstarOrg

5 жыл бұрын

Thanks.

very nice video.

Well then... when I was younger, I built a remake of Rimsterorg's ion lifter, but I never knew you needed high voltage. I USED A HALF DEAD 9 VOLT BATTERY!!!

Nice one!

This tech is amazing I should have come across this years ago

very very very didactic!!! thank you!!!

Very insightful. =)

That was awesome 👌 👏 😎

It's not just about sharp & smooth, but also about charge distribution , with the wire the charge is concentrated promoting ionization, whilst the collector electrode has a larger surface area which doesn't promote ionization.

Thank you !

I was reading this technology being used in building the B2 bomber. What is your thoughts on that? Great video btw :)

great thanks✌

best channel bro

This is the first time I seen anyone who knew what they were talking about, Most people are clueless when it comes to this stuff But since I agree with your principles and know of it and am not involved with this type of thrust, but maybe after I finish my research, here's something you may be able to incorporate into your thrust-er as an experiment. I'm researching constant magnetic acceleration, Now I would suggest to see if you could build a set of magnetic coils that encompass the one end or through the whole accelerating chamber .a number of small coils to accelerate the flow of ions, Do that to see if it will increase the speed of movement of your vehicle. It would be interesting to know what effect this would have on acceleration etc. Keep thinking and let me know what happens if you do it.

@tonyboss4290

5 жыл бұрын

Well yea it would because the more your wrap a coil the stronger the magnetic field and thus higher voltage. More voltage more current per second. Current is electrons adn the electrons bumb into atoms making ions.

Hi interesting, and first I'd like to thank you for the awesome, to the point, easy to understand and informative video. I'm wondering how much power we're talking when it comes to moving an object using ionic thrust per any measure of weight?

@RimstarOrg

2 жыл бұрын

I don't have any numbers for that. I have trouble measuring the current so I can't calculate power.

That video was so good maybe the best one I seen in sometime, years ago I seen I guy make a big one of them in he's garage ever since then I always wanted to know if that was real, because it looked like magic lol

I find this fascinating. I believe that the wheel is holding us back. We seem to be at a standstill. Keep at it I believe you are on to something very big maybe not in my life time I am 70. But wouldn't be amazing if this teck worked incredibly well in the waitress state of space

If the polarization doesn't matter, does it work with AC power supply ?

do you have any plans to test this in isolated conditions???

The fast-moving ions produce the corona discharge from the point of drag air molecules along to create the electrical windand since the luminous portion of the flame is positively charged maybe

Can you do a video on multi stage ionocraft lifters?

Thank you for your explanation. I wonder, what would happen if between the two electrodes there was a nitrogen laser beam? Would it help to ionise the air? Thank's

@RimstarOrg

2 жыл бұрын

It's hard to say if that would be a good thing. If it did ionize the air, keep in mind that we still need those un-ionized neutral atoms/molecules to push against.

Pressure Mediation based in frequency and bandwidth... No particles involved... Makes me think of brushed motor to brushless,..then to rail gun,... Inverted to "ion" thruster... (Sympathetic resonant magnetic drive) Nice video

Dude. Unbelievably well explained. You're the next Bill Nye ; )

@cmill8465

6 жыл бұрын

David Hart Nye is a hack

@tagsdaddy

5 жыл бұрын

The movie star?

@tonyboss4290

5 жыл бұрын

Nye doesn't know shit

That reminds me to change my DILITHIUM CRYSTALS. Thanks.

Cool!

Does the geometric proportions and/or elemental property, structure and state have an influence? What about the charge applied, does Voltage and frequency have a role? ie; 220V, 113mHz Poloyphase charge used to create a resonant signal sympathetic to that of the atmospheric gas being targeted? Or is the regular form of AC applied at, or above relevant thresholds adequate? I feel as though we are still creating crude and horribly inefficient proof of concepts. Am thinking a crystalline metal such as bismuth (or what ever suits the particular nature of energy transfer) is a good starting point, furthered by accurate geometrical properties. Further advancement from; Accurate wave form adaptation to facilitate a reversible, self amplification characteristic to be implemented. Thrust multiplication of thrust by application of force and/or wave forms -ultrasonic, microwave / alfven waves. Then refinement of such incorporations as indicative by environment, not mathematical guesswork. And so on... In 100 years these engines could advance in o the point that our best working models look no better than the wright brothers flight.

Very nice shall we do it wireless ?

Great explanation but I have a few questions. 1.) Is the propulsion activated by the positively charged ions that are headed back to the positive source after collision with the neutral atoms? 2.) If the fields were reversed, how will that affect the atoms in order to get the same result?

@RimstarOrg

4 жыл бұрын

Thanks. 1) Yes. That collision is what pushes on the electric field that the positive ions are a part of. That's what causes the propulsion. 2) It's too much detail for a comment but if the fields were reversed then the details would be a little different but the effect and the direction of the motion would be the same.

4:35 yes that is what i was thinking ...! 🤔🤔 But in space there's no neutral atoms other then that which exists in the chamber so what for this case ?

I'm assuming it's not as efficient as a physical propeller or impeller, but still, very, very interesting mechanics at work.

nice vd its give me an idea

hi if you make this a bigger engine do you get any electrical discharge "lightning bolts" i mean i work on plasma propulsion ideas. one i have is a plasma reactor rocket engine . a magnetron generating plasma from silicon dioxide that gets drawn to a dc magnet, then a cathode ray fires electrons at it to overload the plasma field. a plasma explosion equal to a combustion chamber of a rocket to create thrust. and a plasma turbojet doing the same thing . the pressure from the electrical/plasma explosion for thrust and to spin a turbine to bring in more plasma.

thanks!

So this is possible to do on a dc circuit. Are there any formulas available gor this kind of device?

@RimstarOrg

6 жыл бұрын

This circuit is DC. However, it's high voltage DC. As for formulas, there are but I don't have any off-hand. I know Peek's law is often used en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peek%27s_law.

Have you ever measured the pull when the lifter is active...does the size (dimensions) work better or increase lift the smaller the distance is between he sides of the equilateral triangle? Do the sides have to be rolled towards the inside or can the be either direction? Does the height (from top to bottom) matter as well, the higher the height of the AL the more lift... I've got so many questions on what the variables are....

@RimstarOrg

9 жыл бұрын

shaun adlesperger A very long time ago I did these tests for the pullrimstar.org/sdprop/testrigs/shielded_scale.htmbut the only variable I tested was the affect on voltage. Higher voltage meant more lift. But I suspect a smaller and smaller distance will increase lift, but only until you start sparking, in which case it'll stop flying.The sides can be rolled in either direction, it doesn't matter. Just minimize the sharp edges at the top of the foil.The height of the foil only matters if it gets so short that the bottom edge starts acting like a top edge and you now have a sharp edge near the top, negating the fact that you rolled the real top edge. But that'd have to be pretty short.

what if you had a flat aluminum surface and above you had parallel line wire will it have more lifting power

@RimstarOrg

8 жыл бұрын

No, it wouldn't work. You need the jet of air to continue downward. With a flat aluminum surface, the downward jet would collide with the flat surface and push it back down.

So does this have spacecraft use? Is it usefull for long distance travel? And most important does it have speed ? (my thoughts are it uses more energy than it produces,but i find it really cool :D)

@RimstarOrg

10 жыл бұрын

Ion propulsion has been used by NASA on some spacecraft, though they do it a little differently. Since there's no air in space they carry along xenon gas. In that case it's actually used for really long distances. They're able to run it at low thrust for long periods of time, building up speed slowly, but eventually getting up to very high speed. As for the design in this video, it also of course would require the spacecraft to carry along a gas as the propellant. But I don't know if it's any better than the design that NASA uses. And it definitely uses more energy than it produces - my understanding is that everything does since there are always losses.

Would This same experiment work in space?

What are your thought on in atmosphere propulsion. It clearly works on a small scale but given an adequate power supply would it be possible for say small air craft?

@RimstarOrg

10 жыл бұрын

A rough number is that there's a voltage of 100 volts for every meter of height through the atmosphere. And that varies depending on all sorts of things: nearby objects, humidity, air density, wind, ... So you'd need a tall aircraft to get the voltage. Then there's the question of how much charge is in the air, which also varies. That's extremely small. From Feynman's Lectures, volume II, 9-2, the current density (charge moving under the influence of that voltage) is around 10 micro micro amps crossing each square meter parallel to the earth. So I'd say it wouldn't work for a small aircraft.

Does the thin wire need to be bare, or can you use something like enamel insulated wire? Thanks.

@RimstarOrg

4 жыл бұрын

Due to the strong electric field around the wire, the thin enamel coating will likely breakdown but if it does, it'll likely be in one spot. Once corona is leaking out of that spot, the electric field overall will be weaker and it won't be emitting in other places. That's my guess anyway. It likely won't fly. There are tricks for removing enamel from wire though. Do a search for how to remove enamel from wire.

Holy wow!

Excellent explanation! Does this create ozone or any other dangerous gases while it's working?

@RimstarOrg

2 жыл бұрын

Ionization created using high voltage can produce ozone. My lifter work at around 25,000 volts and that's high enough to produce ozone. So yes, it does.

If use in a exotic pc cooling system.. Could this damage your parts?

@RimstarOrg

2 жыл бұрын

I don't know. It does produce a lot of ions which means it might electrically charge things. That might cause a problem.

Thanks

Could draw power from a tesla coil? scale thrusters down to nano and give more thrust per area? Make thrust vector more efficient? Allow for localized drone flight? Would spinning add benefits?

@RimstarOrg

6 жыл бұрын

No, unfortunately it needs DC and a tesla coil puts out AC. Shrinking it down to nano size is an interesting idea I hadn't thought about before. You'd still need the high voltage in order to break down the air.

Hi, can ion propulsion work if the points are attached to the curved surface, i.e. pointing out from it, as they are connected to it via wiring anyway, or do they need to be separate from it for the effect described in the video to take place?

@RimstarOrg

Жыл бұрын

The side with the sharp points can be attached to a curved surface as long as the points stick out away from the surface. The other side will still have to be an entirely smooth surface though.

Hello, how many voltage is required to lift the lifter and why is ion propulsion effective when it requires heavier energy source (Lifter for example requires that heavy high voltage machine)? Awesome video by the way!

@RimstarOrg

10 жыл бұрын

Thanks! My 2 gram lifter lifts off with around 26kV and around 275 microamps. By effective I assume you mean practical or useful. Other than for fun science projects these lifters aren't effective. However, ion propulsion is used for spacecraft where it's okay if they take a long time to get up to a high speed. NASA has used it for some deep space exploration missions and I think Europe is also working on that.

cool thanks

Is the electric wind sufficient to lift the lifter ? One thing is to prop the enterprise suspended to a crane and that doesnt move so fast, another thing is to have the sufficient amount of force applied on the lifter to couter his weight ... some mesures ?

How powerful is the propulsion and how easy is it to make. I want to try this out for a science fair experiment

@RimstarOrg

6 жыл бұрын

It's not very powerful. It can lift a 2 gram lifter pretty well kzread.info/dash/bejne/qK6O25N6oc_LntI.html. However, the main people have a problem making is the power supply. It has to be high voltage, but also relatively high current too. This is the one I made kzread.info/dash/bejne/eXmprZOIlLzeeM4.html for it. It also produces ozone as a byproduct, which is hazardous to your health in large quantities. But I've heard of plenty of people using it for science fairs. If is a dangerous high voltage so you do have to know what you're doing.

y qué pasa si le pones una pequeña bobina cerrada en si misma entre el aluminio y el cobre que lleva el alto voltage?

@RimstarOrg

6 жыл бұрын

The metal coil would create a bit of a short circuit between the two electrodes. It would be as if you'd brought the two electrodes closer together. That would either cause sparking, which would stop the ion propulsion effect, or it would increase the strength of the propulsion.

Wow, very nice and clear explanation. But where does the ion later go to, does it receive an electron from the -ve electrode (with large surface area) to become neutral, or does it go along with the other atoms?

@RimstarOrg

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks. I'm glad you liked it. Not always, but yes, sometimes the ion makes it to the -ve electrode to become neutral. Some don't though and you end up with ionized air.

@mechtronforce9063

3 жыл бұрын

@@RimstarOrg Okay Thanks

Excellent explanation of ion propulsion. So seeing your smoke sticks at the end means it still needs something to push off of…in this case air right? You probably know where I’m going with this…

@RimstarOrg

2 жыл бұрын

That's what I describe at 4:26.

I don't know about air temperature between the electrodes but I think buoyancy forces also may generate air flows in favor of propulsion.

@RimstarOrg

10 жыл бұрын

I've never measured the temperature in the region of lifters. I imagine surfaces at least would be cooler than ambient due to all the air flow.

im curious what is the lowest amount of power needed to create lift and what is the max? does that amount differ between how far the distance is between the "sharp" and "smooth"? can the "smooth" end be covered on the opissite side of the "sharp" object? does the gap between the smooth and sharp need to be contained air or does there need to be air flow? im very curious about this and any questions that you feel like answering would assist me greatly.

@RimstarOrg

9 жыл бұрын

shaun adlesperger For my lifter, the minimum voltage is around 26kV but I don't know the minimum current due to the limitations of my meter, but it's somewhere just over 250 microamps. You can see the measurements in my video here kzread.info/dash/bejne/foN7o8OIkta0ZMo.html. The min and max are really dependent on the distance between the sharp and smooth electrodes. I've never looked for what the max is. The greater the distance the higher the voltage you'll need. Yes, the smooth end can be insulated but you must allow air to flow. The gap can be blocked somewhat since the electric field is actually larger than the gap size.

In 2003 Thomas Bader and Chris Farzi worked together to examine the Biefeld-Brown effect by first reproducing the effect and reviewing the history through patents held by Brown. Several theories were tested and proposed, with quick theoretical calculations to determine whether the theory was sufficient to provide the force necessary for the thrust noticed by operating ionocraft. A conclusion is reached that the Ionic wind force is too small is reached by assuming that the particles being propelled are electrons. This assumption would suggest that a small force would be noticed in a vacuum since the electrons could come from the emitter on the ionocraft. Using the following two equations: 1/2mv^2 =qV where m is the mass of the moving particle, v is the velocity of that particle, q is the charge on the particle, and V is the voltage across the asymmetric capacitor. This is the kinetic energy of the particles being moved around by the electric field. F=mv*i/q Assuming collisions are completely elastic the change in momentum is calculated as above. The variables are the same as before with I being the current flowing across the capacitor. This also assumes that none of the particles collide with the collector. Combining these equations they conclude that the force is 5 orders of magnitude too small to be the cause.

Which Trek episide guys? The one that first mentioned Ion propulsion!

what voltage did you use to create the electric field?

@RimstarOrg

10 жыл бұрын

For the lifter it was around 25kilovolts and just over 250microamps. I didn't measure for the Enterprise.

what about creating a shield and injecting free ions in the direction of travel???

are there any theories to control the direction of the lifter?

@RimstarOrg

7 жыл бұрын

It can be done. For example, you can have some sort of circuit which powered each side independently. I've never heard of anyone doing it though.