Great take on developers my guy! every developer wants to deliver the perfect product but it's never possible and they will also feel bad for it, the studio needs to run and generate money the strain between money and passion is so strong it dooms to break at least one side of the industry either the passion or the money!

I play a game called Rec Room where the devs are complained about WAY too much by the mostly ~13 year-old fanbase. It’s a sandbox game and is super VR-compatible but also runs cross-platform between Quest 1, Quest 2, PS4, PS5, is compatible with PSVR, Xbox One, Xbox Series X/S, PC, is compatible with PCVR, iPhone, and Android. I imagine the game’s a nightmare when it comes to fixing bugs but the younger members of the community kick and scream and cry and whine when an update makes something not work properly, or when they haven’t yet found a fix for something that already wasn’t working properly.

@Jeb.07

Жыл бұрын

@thegamergg2000 It actually is though right?!? I used to work with children and so much of the behaviour i see from the fanbase reminds me of it!!

I loved seeing Squad's stretching head bug on the cover since I worked on that game. When someone would find a funny bug, we would sit around his table and have a good laugh. (Generally speaking, low prio bugs are given to new comers to studio to learn the engine/get used to game codebase as well, but as you say some low prio bugs can have some crazy dependencies where fixing might mean rewriting a portion or entire system)

@BerkeBoz

Жыл бұрын

I showed my very senior coworker how the last Sonic 2d remake game had their settings menu burried inside Gallery tab. I asked, "Someone decided this and said yeah look about right", but how ?😅 Then he told me the story of a producer they called "The Closer" at Ubisoft when he worked there. As you see on a maturing game engine (that also has the game code mixed in it for year lmao AC caugh caugh) you have tons of low prio bug tickets that were opened in years before and not fixed. So "The Closer" producer would call them not a bug close off the ticket even while someone could be working on it😅 So when he saw the settings inside Gallery menu he said "Ahh Sega has their agressive closer producer" 🥲

@YourFrienjamin

Жыл бұрын

I thought it was a Battlefield thumbnail

@fastertrackcreative

2 ай бұрын

Took me a moment to realise that "Squad's stretching head bug" in your comment wasn't a character name 😆

@BerkeBoz

2 ай бұрын

@@fastertrackcreative thats a great idea for Starship Troopers game lol, I'll let them know next time I hangout with some of them :D

Great video, love the in-depth insight! (Also that horse clip from AC was amazing).

2:53 ‘’and here we have the rare breed of horse the helicopter horse’’

@fastertrackcreative

2 ай бұрын

Something similar happened to me in Assassin's Creed Syndicate with a horse and cart.

TIL "Known Shippable" My project managers will definitely hear this word in the future..

I've played a number of early access games (e.g. Planet Nomads) And when I give feedback/suggestions for features I try to make my ideas as clear as possible and often include illustrations and references to other games for methods used.

Please bring more of this content you are doing a great job. Keep it up.❤️

Thanks for taking the time. I'm a nobody of a scrubby indie dev. And there is a lot of misinformation floating around online about game dev. As understandably frustrating as bugs can be. This is literally the first & only video i've found actually discusing what bugs are and why they happen. We don't have to excuse the bad behavior and shady practices of game studies. But we also can't keep saying the technical realities of game development don't matter. Because that approach only leaves us angry and without answers. That and most of the discussions we're having are pretty technical in nature. if we want better games? Part of that means we have to inform ourselves. So we can make better and more accurate criticisms of the games we play. Again, thanks for putting this together. Take care & have a good one

Great Video, very good editing aswell. Deserves like 20x the Views atleast, probably even more

@LogicalLeveling

Жыл бұрын

haha thanks for the kind words stranger.

Fantastic video. Really logical and reasonable. Good work.

@LogicalLeveling

Жыл бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it friend!

Very good summary on the entire topic. Perhaps for the next video, we can tackle the issue about game engines and how sometimes higher-ups are adamant and wants the new game to use a super old engine, causing the game to be... problematic. Or, template games like in the case for mobile gacha games these days.

@LogicalLeveling

Жыл бұрын

Good idea. The very first video on this channel was actually about Amazon Games Studios and their higher ups at the time wanting to create a new engine instead of lease one and all the troubles that ensued. But you're right. I'd like to do one more focused on the engine in general. For example EA wanting to move all their games to the Frostbite engine and the problems that generated.

@NasiLemakTech

Жыл бұрын

@@LogicalLeveling that's exactly the one I'm referring to 😂 Looking forward to that topic!

Hey man I really like ur content I was wandering if u can make a video about game design or level design and how it changed with the time 😊 ur content is really well made

A great video! Was shocked when i noticed the subscriber count.

@LogicalLeveling

Жыл бұрын

Haha, thanks friend.

I play a few game and a trend I am noticing is increasing bugs with every major update. It is pointless fixing bugs while introducing more. I don't know if it is greed, adding more content and variety to get more buyers. I will tell you now, you will lose more people with buggy games than you gain. Developers need to put bug fixing as a top priority.

This is an amazing video! Amazing editing and content for such a unpopular channel! gl!

@LogicalLeveling

Жыл бұрын

Thank you so much, kind stranger!

cool vid man. didn't even realize your channel was so small. keep it up

@LogicalLeveling

Жыл бұрын

Thanks friend!

Your perspective has given me new appreciation for video games. Still... there is the inevitable rejection that must come to incomplete games that even have the audacity to ask premium prices AND implement microtransactions.

Thank you

I wish streamers could watch this video because they are the main reason why so many people turn into kids when they see a bug on a game

if my code becomes too spaghetti, I follow jonathan blow's philosophy of hiding the level

@LogicalLeveling

Жыл бұрын

haha, smart!

wow I thought this has much more views great video !

@LogicalLeveling

Жыл бұрын

Glad you liked it friend!

As a game developer myself, this made me emotional 😓

thank you bro thank you

This is beyond true. For as much as people praise indie, mostly for good reason don't get me wrong, but most stories involve small studios almost getting bankrupted if they didn't get a hit, Pal World is a good example since the devs of that game needed to switch engines mid development so the fact that game came out as well as it did IN BETA!!! Is insane, not only that but they still may be under fire from Pokémon over brand confusion. And although no man's sky is a different scenario, when that game released to the public eye hello game's reputation was in the gutter and had warped the studio's intentions when they honestly wanted to make a fun game and their efforts paid off since some people are saying that the game is better the starfield in terms of space exploration, environment etc... Of course, this does not fully pardon the business side of AAA and AA games like you said with fallout 76 and cyberpunk sadly, but I don't think people really understand what they are dealing with either.

hirez is an even better breed of developer/publisher. how paladins is built up is just a real what the fuck level and for them there is no excuse. every new version brings back the exact same bugs so half of their patch is spend by fixing everything on repeat. why? because they use templates they created because the game is some 1 michelin star spaghetti. for example the battle passes, they fix its bugs after every patch, but never fix the template so the bugs reappear as the fixed BP template that shipped in game will get deleted. Sometimes their activity center works as it should but most of the time not, and lots of other things

TNice tutorials was a fantastic beginner's guide, straight to the point, very clear. As a long-ti teacher I can tell you are quite apt at teacNice tutorialng!

whats the game at 0:50 called

I am literally watching this because I was wondering how hard it would be to fix bugs in The Last of Us on my own. It's my favorite game of all time, but there are many imperfections here and there.

thank you for the insight, every time i learn more about how much devs are abused i feel even more scared of working in the gaming industry ;; but im also a stubborn advocate and love games too much, so i hope i can stand up for myself and coworkers💕 -ngl finding out gaben is a narc dashed my dream of working at valve and making vr less photo dangerous, so idk what ill do with myself but it sure as hell wont be meta lmao-

A lot of issues dont get resolved, because it is difficult to clearly describe what the impact will be, even though everyone knows its worth to fix it, it is just a lot of work to argue we need to fix something technical, that will cause issues down the line, to someone who doesn't know shit about technical stuff.

@LogicalLeveling

Жыл бұрын

For sure! To go back to the pasta bowl analogy its kind of like trying to pull a single spaghetti out of the bowl with out moving the other spaghetti laying all over it... not easy :p Thanks for the comment, hope you enjoyed the video :)

Job security in meta lol 😂

Needs more subs and views. Liking and commenting to hack the algorithm.

@LogicalLeveling

Жыл бұрын

Appreciate the support!

While developers do care about the game, their bosses often don't and actually just want consumers' money

I love bugs in games. I would not love breath of the wild nearly as much if it was a perfect game with no bugs. wind bombing to go faster makes the game feel funner and faster.

hearing fall guys players complain like its no tomorrow lead me here. this games system when it comes to currency and variety can be improved but when the bugs got out of control and they put some levels away the community got worse. i understood its complicated to fix these bugs especially when they have been working on entirely new levels while its annoying and i understood their points i didn't wanna be bitter player and be toxic over it especially when i didn't understand these issues. not to mention a online platformer has it easier than a multi shooter game or fighting game excuse my rant i just want this game to have civil people because i enjoy playing it more then i should lol

Says alot about the industry really. Get beaten, overworked, threated etc, just so you can do your best and be rewarded with death threats. Maybe gaming in ots current form needs to die

Underrated channel to be honest

amazing scripting, thanks brother

Easy they don't anymore

Pin me when you hit 100k views 🐦

@LogicalLeveling

Жыл бұрын

One can dream ;p

@theepicone7464

Жыл бұрын

@@LogicalLeveling Nah , your vedio is already getting pushed by algo :>

Nah, I'm paying and I expect good products. Don't start making excuses for them

Just wait, 10 more year maybe more or less and A.I. shpuld be able to do most of the heavy lifting and our games would hopefully be way better and come out way faster

@informalnarwhals

7 ай бұрын

id prefer to support artists😊

Seems like a bunch of cope to me, honestly. I get that immensely large games can be a pain to work on and ensure they work properly, but the amount of laziness and tight deadlines (both exist and are an issue) these days are just sad to witness. Saying "games are more complex, hence there's more bugs" doesn't really fly when many games are less complex from a gameplay stance these days and having more in-depth graphical pipelines shouldn't cause that many more bugs. And before you go "oh, but under the hood there's still 'more' overall, even with less gameplay", again doesn't fly. I get there's a limited amount of time to make games, anywhere from a few tens of thousand of hours to potentially hundreds of thousands if you have hundreds of people working on it and over multiple years, but it doesn't change the fact games and the entire industry are in a terrible spot right now and AAA games are buggier and worse than they've ever been. If you want to use the "timer's always ticking" argument, what about a chef? The next meal always has to be made, yet if you're in a decent restaurant your order won't be messed up and be undercooked or something. A bad kitchen may mess your order up more often, which again shows it's a management and literal skill issue. If you have a bunch of unskilled people you'll run into issues, same how if you have terrible management and there's time being wasted left and right, you'll inevitably cause problems to happen. Also lol, "Jason Schreier". What a dumb quote. Might as well say that about anything, like machines working or recipes turning into a delicious meal. Games are literally just different systems working in tandem, nothing more. A transistor being on or off isn't magic and working with that on/off state isn't magic either. What is a miracle is that gaming "journalists" still get respect these days, for being shills and terrible at their job.

@LogicalLeveling

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for the long thought-out comment. I hope you still enjoyed the video, even if you disagreed. I agree with you that there are issues in the industry, but I think they are called out. I used the example of Fallout 76 and Cyberpunk, in the video. That blatant money grabs or games far below the social standard are called out. And to your point, I think a lot of that falls onto management rather than the developers. If you're interested, the first video on this channel spoke about the leadership at Amazon Game Studios (it's crazy). kzread.info/dash/bejne/mJqH2MObl8SxeJs.html - though if you do watch it, I apologize for the even lower quality :p It was made quite a while ago. As to why games are so buggy, the complexity plays a role in how the bugs came to be, but the reason games have as many bugs as they do nowadays is more about how many games are built on foundations that already have a lot of known issues. Known shippable. To use your chef analogy, it's as if a chef never had the opportunity to clean the plates before putting on the next meal. So the person eating his pork chop keeps getting a whiff of the fish and chips that used the plate previously, and then this cycle keeps building untill the meal is 90% stink. 90% known shippable. The last section of the videos, which I believe is where you feel the copium comes from, is more about trying to help people realize that it really is just people making these huge projects. Just everyday people. Maybe I could've done a better job separating the average Joe developer from the Studio or upper management. But I don't believe developers work on games not trying to make the best possible game they can. I don't buy the idea that developers are twirling their mustaches, thinking about how they can make the most money with the least effort. And again, I believe the proof of that is the fact that this industry is tough on developers. And that if that were the mindset of said developer, they would have a lot easier time at a tech company out of the industry. Now studio execs etc are a different story, and I think you and I can name some just off the top of our heads that are known for that behavior. Again comes down to the fact that maybe I didn't do a good enough job in the video of separating the average working developer from the Studio. Also, I don't think we should buy or tolerate busted games just for the sake of the developers. If it's a bad game, we should all point at it and say "no, don't play that." But again, to my previous point, I think that does happen. But we can do that without concocting this grand conspiracy that developers don't care and are just out for cash. Thanks again for your comment. I did enjoy it, and I hope I was able to respond in some manner. And thanks again for taking the time to watch and critique the video. I do appreciate it. Have a good day, internet friend. p.s. I thought the Jaso Schreier quote was cute ;p

@sourcedasher

Жыл бұрын

@@LogicalLeveling Will check it out. I still have several gripes with it though. The reality is that low quality/bad/MTX games are everywhere these days. It's no secret to anyone involved in gaming that it's only gotten worse over the years. Gaming used to be a passion industry and even in the mid to late 2000s it still used to be like that in some places, where publishers let studios have a lot of control over their own projects. But the mobile market bringing more people to the console space, the general growth of the console market and several other things like day 1 patches and the introduction of more aggressive MTX really ruined this industry. It doesn't help that a ton of people, which I am 100% sure of but have no sort of proof for, are in the industry, yet do not care about games and have no passion for them. I know in the end it's a mix of several things, direct influences, that ruin games and the industry, but in my eyes it's just the perfect concoction to ruin everything. From the $$$ in their eyes CEOs of Black Rock and Co to lazy/overworked devs and consumers, who quite frankly, half of are all missing a good chunk of their brain. People have no sense of quality or what should be acceptable, while companies blatantly exploit it. Fans are worth nothing to most companies these days, because why count on some fan's $60 if you can get 5-10 idiots to give you $100 each? There's just too much to rant and talk about really. But to finish this thread off with my take, I just finished playing CoD: WW2 on PC. Left the match in the middle of the game. Why? Because I am simply annoyed with basic things not working. Collision in that game's zombies mode is terrible. Paintjobs don't show up half the time, if you're playing zombies. The paintjob editor is buggy/awful as all hell. It was designed by someone with zero thought put into it. The UI often hangs up on the "melee" section when looking at the armory and you use the A/D keys to switch tabs. The contract menu is buggy to navigate if you use your arrow keys exclusively. The FOV change + the LOD settings on one of the maps, rather 2, is fucking horrible too. The camo choice options at PaP is often broken. There's a million and one things that I've noticed about games I play, that are so damn plain obvious, yet they were never fixed or reconsidered. DbD, game's like 6 years old now. Still has no way to save loadouts IIRC and equipping/unequipping items in the menus will make the game stutter for no reason. During 2019 there was a 6 month period where you had a 1/6 chance of being stuck in a loading screen, having to terminate the process via TM. Instead of loading straight into the main menu, it'll have you sit on the title screen till you press a button, THEN it'll start to load like 5 different things to check till it finally lets you enter the main menu. I am honestly just sick and tired of video games, the developers and Co and the consumers who enable this sort of behavior.

@fastertrackcreative

2 ай бұрын

I suspect it's more of a management issue. They put developers under pressure to churn out results as fast as possible without giving them the time to refine it. It's like the problem with VFX in films.