The craziest part is how this video didn't once mention the main character Duncan Idaho.

@noiseisgold3n42

4 ай бұрын

Youre just jealous that my Duncan Idaho OC would beat your Duncan Idaho OC.

@maninblack3410

4 ай бұрын

Pretty sure he says Duncan’s name in the bleeped section lol

@kitchensinkmuses4947

4 ай бұрын

true. I personally loved the final book. All these books about messiahs and chosen leaders and stuff, and then it finishes with just some dude (not really) flying into the fever dream of Tom Bombadil

@ppppppqqqppp

4 ай бұрын

you mean Duncans Idahos

@fredrik5827

4 ай бұрын

My favorite Duncan is Duncan Idahomophobic

I was once told: Books 1-2: Politics Books 3-4: Philosophy Books 5-6: Horny but in a weird way Currently halfway through book 6 and I can confirm this is accurate

@oscarlove4394

4 ай бұрын

not to mention too much of Duncan Idaho, i had enough of him by the end of book 3, the fact he's still around by book 6 six is a nightmare. just let him be already, jesus christ. I know you need to somehow to relate the current events to the first books but god he overstays his welcome by too much. they really soured me on him.

@frances8397

4 ай бұрын

typical progression of a teenage crisis

@jamesmunn576

4 ай бұрын

He loved his wife, man!! Deeply.... lol.

@tober0432

4 ай бұрын

Aside from a couple, one-off sex scenes I don't recall the last two books being all that horny. I thought they were great. I'm one of those weirdos that enjoyed all of the books by Herbert.

@jamesmunn576

4 ай бұрын

@@tober0432 Same.

As a dune fan I was literally answering his questions in the same way during the video

@PacdemonStudios1

4 ай бұрын

dude same lmao

@m1bl4n

4 ай бұрын

Not figuratively?

@KnjazNazrath

4 ай бұрын

I was doing the same, but telepathically instead of literally. I didn't write my answers down at all, and rather I projected The Voice without speaking. Damn, this Melange is good shi-

@mistaowickkuh6249

4 ай бұрын

I didn't even read all of the things yet but I felt my sanity slipping away when I laughed in perfect sync at the end with the 2 nerds.

@space_audits

4 ай бұрын

Thanks for typing this for me. Good looking out, brother.

I’d be like “book 1 is a classic that everyone should read, book 2 is basically just an extended epilogue, after that be prepared for shit to start getting WEIRD”

@MotorcycleWrites

4 ай бұрын

I’d even say 3 is an extended extended epilogue… but after THAT… dune’s a good trilogy imo lol.

@inourtime23

4 ай бұрын

I thought Dune was like Martian but fantasy? But after watching the video and some of the comments I'm only getting progressively confused 😅 is it a good series then?

@jakubolszewski8284

4 ай бұрын

​@@MotorcycleWrites Good hexalogy as well.

@jakubolszewski8284

4 ай бұрын

​@@inourtime23The Best.

@inourtime23

4 ай бұрын

@@jakubolszewski8284 ok now i'm even more lost 💀

"Frank, stop trying to make 'beefswelling' happen. It's NOT going to happen."

@0037kevin

4 ай бұрын

I came here looking for this comment.

@dominus_ignaviae

3 ай бұрын

"You go, Duncan Idaho!"

@tgiacin435

3 ай бұрын

Omg that’s so beef swelling ~sister Gretchen Weiners of the genes gesseritt mean girls

@edmundbloxam2714

3 ай бұрын

What? My beef is swelling right now. I knew I should have put those steaks in the freezer.

@petrabotha8314

3 ай бұрын

You're here, talking about it, it's happening!

The reason why everyone interprets the first book the way they do is because they ARE NOT wrong: he purposefully wanted you to fall in love with a charismatic leader for sure, that he would then show how he falls.

@InquisitiveMeerkat

4 ай бұрын

I mean, of course it would go wrong. He's an autocrat, whether or not he likes it.

@pannapalanki8041

4 ай бұрын

It's not like there aren't any foreshadowing of what's gonna happen, if Paul goes down that road. It's understandable why people miss some of it, but it's not that unexpected, if you pay attention to the book.

@oneoveronethirtyseven9161

4 ай бұрын

@@pannapalanki8041 Yea, I feel like it is super obvious. The foreshadowing in the first book is not subtle at all. Sure, I fell in love with Paul's character, and it was really hard to accept what was inevitably going to happen, but it certainly wasn't a surprise. That being said, I still didn't like most of the 2nd book because I found the new characters boring.

@atheopagan

4 ай бұрын

I would dispute that. The tone of the last quarter of the first book is dark and non-heroic. It is presented as an ambiguous and uncomfortable transition of power, rather than the virtuous victory of heroes.

@VoodooV1

4 ай бұрын

granted its probably been over 15 years since I read the books, but one of the things that stuck out for me is that yeah you have these empires feuding with each other and you have nobles scheming and vying for power blah blah blah, but every once in a while there was scene involving the regular citizenry and they're just....living and they don't seem to care which empire they're ruled by. Now sure, the Harkonnen were apparently the exception where they actively oppressed the citizens, but by and large, even under the tyrant god emperor rule average everyday life for a regular citizen was seemingly....okay and it was just the powerful that hated the God Emperor's rule I dunno if that was just Herbert being dumb and/or out of touch. but I thought maybe it was a message that yeah you can have your interstellar wars and politics and machinations....but don't fuck with the people and just leave them alone to do their thing.

As goofy as these "extreme book nerd" characters can be, I almost feel like I can understand these 2 guys on a spiritual level - and I've never read Dune.

@klulu-kun

4 ай бұрын

Because it's probably how you and your buddy recommended a series to someone else.

@BazukinBelyugovich

4 ай бұрын

@@klulu-kun Absolutely (though I don't have a buddy like that...)

@nadiahapsari3359

4 ай бұрын

As someone who knows Star Wars and Doctor Who Expanded Universe.....yeah

@klulu-kun

4 ай бұрын

@@BazukinBelyugovich you'll find one :)

@asafupps

4 ай бұрын

@@BazukinBelyugovichYou be your own buddy first!

Basically Paul tricks you into thinking he’s Aragorn but he’s actually Sauron but he’s kinda conflicted about it but not enough to stop being Aragorn shaped Sauron

@CrazyChemistPL

3 ай бұрын

Also he is Frodo because he does what he must even though he doesn't want to.

@CrazyChemistPL

3 ай бұрын

Also, this analogy kinda makes Leto II freaking Morgoth, even if though in this case Morgoth is actually Sauron's son, instead of Sauron being Morgoth's servant. Dune be weird, man.

@legion999

3 ай бұрын

He's not Sauron. But he lost control over his troops which caused the jihad

@CrazyChemistPL

3 ай бұрын

@@legion999 I don't agree. Paul lost control only once and immediately after that happened, he went to the desert.

@me-myself-i787

3 ай бұрын

​@@legion999He had plenty of control in Dune: Messiah. If he had commanded them to stop, they would've likely listened. He's the one who commanded them to go on the jihad.

if you wanna know what your getting yourself into after Dune Messiah, ill just name 4 things: Army of sex nuns, half worm/half man god, cat people or whatever they are, and alot of Duncan Idahos

@tristensanz7058

4 ай бұрын

BRING ME MORE DUCANS 🪱

@ethanaskey7285

4 ай бұрын

DAMN THE ROMANS

@EcclesiastesLiker-py5ts

4 ай бұрын

So many Idahos... Its like being at a potato market.

@romankotas448

4 ай бұрын

Duncan Idahos for days man

@roge2342

4 ай бұрын

Bruh in these books there is a scene where they sexually assault a little BOY just so that he can gain some memories???? And nobody talks about it???

Dune spoilers: Part I: "A teenager takes drugs, billions die." Part II: " Eyes are optional" Part III: "The golden path leads to many abilities some consider to be unnatural." Part IV: "Hey kids, do you want to do some eugenics?" part V: "With strange aeons even death may die" part VI: "Series not renewed"

@Scientist_Salarian

3 ай бұрын

This is perfect lol!

@LuisManuelLealDias

3 ай бұрын

You got me with "eyes are optional"

@HomoChomsky

3 ай бұрын

It's been decades since I first read the book, and that description of Chapterhouse still makes me sad.

@navonmyhand7999

2 ай бұрын

Haven't read the books yet but I'll save this screenshot now to return later and see how it fits 🤔

@mikenagoda

2 ай бұрын

LMAO @ IV

I started to listen to the first book in audio format while taking the bus from uni, and people around me probably thought i was in a perpetual state of confusion my whole life. Honestly, it was the weirdest experience i have ever had with a book. I had to look up so many things because i couldn't figure out how stuff looked. English is also not my first language, so it made the whole thing even more surreal 😂

@Dularr

4 ай бұрын

The fourth book gets very weird.

@Nathanatos22

4 ай бұрын

I had a similar experience listening to the audiobook. The print version comes with multiple appendices.

@AndreInfanteInc

4 ай бұрын

Oh yeah, books with lots of made up vocabulary and weird concepts must be a nightmare for non-native speakers.

@agoogolofgeese

4 ай бұрын

Don’t feel bad. English is my first language and I found myself constantly confused, looking things up, and re-reading so many passages. It took me forever to finish Book #1 the first time. Hell, even my second read was going like that (granted it was 10 years later). During the latter I found that having a tablet or e-reader is invaluable. You can select words or phrases for quick definitions and references without leaving the page, as well as flip back and forth between chapters and appendices much easier. I hated reading books on tablet until then, so.. thanks, I guess, Frank Herbert 😂 This is an excellent way to gain greater command of a language, native or no, so great job sticking through it!

@agoogolofgeese

4 ай бұрын

Oh, and I also listened to the Reading Dune podcast after every chapter or two on my second read. Hearing outside perspective and analysis really helped me to work through much what I found confusing, as well as to solidify some of the concepts. Also those guys are funny. Highly recommended!

Dune is one of those things where recommending the first book to someone also sometimes functions as a warning not to read the full series, depending on the person you are speaking with.

@Dularr

4 ай бұрын

Just ask them about Paul. Their answer tells you if they should read the second book.

@totesmagotes213

4 ай бұрын

I read Dune for the first time last year. I wish I would have read it when I was younger, because at this point with a lot of fantasy and science-fiction under my belt, it felt derivative. I absolutely know that this is because many other series have been inspired by Dune, but I read those first. I enjoyed Messiah, mostly because I’m anti war/imperialism and it seemed like a more realistic take than what a lot of depictions of emperors are. About 2/3 way through Children right now and I’m enjoying the politics in it and I’m planning to read God Emperor because I like weird stuff then I’m bowing out.

@TheBrotherGrim

4 ай бұрын

​@totesmagotes213 God Emperor is my favorite personally. Gimme that weird shit all day.

@oscarlove4394

4 ай бұрын

@@totesmagotes213 god emperor is a good place to stop, book 5-6 is only good if you really really like the bene gesserit and duncan idaho. Otherwise just bounce.

@johnhoran9840

3 ай бұрын

​@@oscarlove4394 I see Miles Teg as the inspiration for Thrawn in Timothy Zahn's Heir To The Empire trilogy.

I love how every Dune fan can at least agree that we never read the books by Brian.

@gatling216

4 ай бұрын

I picked up the first Butlerian Jihad book out of curiosity. It’s a decision I regret to this day.

@billcook4768

4 ай бұрын

Brian’s books sell, so somebody is reading them. Though I’ve never met anybody who claims to.

@thibaud1832

4 ай бұрын

@@billcook4768Never saw them on the shelf though.

@eaglesclaws8

4 ай бұрын

Love how you think you speak for everyone. Look at the balls on you😂

@eaglesclaws8

4 ай бұрын

Mmmmm

This is genius. I've been a Dune fan since the 80s and this is exactly how I've spoken of the books to people over the years.

@Nick1979BN

3 ай бұрын

So is it enough to read the first two? Do they end in a rounded finish enough to be left at that? (You know, like people say Matrix was a perfect stand-alone movie?)

@jaquandrejones

3 ай бұрын

​@@Nick1979BNIt depends on you. Some fans will be satisfied with how messiah ends. I wasn't. They leave giant "this will be important later" threads behind that play out in children of dune. I'd recommend you read all of them until you don't like one. Even the kids' books.

@Dark_Souls_3

3 ай бұрын

@@Nick1979BNI recommend only the first 4. Book 5 is sort of the start of a new trilogy and you don’t need that. Although all 8 books tell a grand story

This is exactly true. I recommend these books in exactly this way (except I generally don't say the beefswelling part out loud). The ludicrousness of the idea of reading any of the ones by Brian is so on point.

@GoneZombie

3 ай бұрын

What do you think it must feel like to be Brian Herbert?

@jaquandrejones

3 ай бұрын

Rich​@@GoneZombie

@macherie1234

3 ай бұрын

I honestly did not remember that graphic description from my reading long ago. Pretty sure teenage me thought it was really corny and not worth remembering.

I tell people to either read 1 and 2, go up to 4, or read all 6. Three perfect stopping points.

@thescottishaccent

2 ай бұрын

If you don't read 3, you miss out on the immensely satisfying end to Paul's personal arc, though, which is a big loss.

@voji4407

2 ай бұрын

eh. I prefer the ending to pauls story in 2.@@thescottishaccent

@coolgate7794

2 ай бұрын

If you get past 4, it never ends

@voji4407

2 ай бұрын

We don't talk about those books...@@coolgate7794

@twincast2005

2 ай бұрын

I agree that Messiah and God Emperor are perfect stopping points, but, alas, Frank's death has prevented there being a third (at least unless and until someone ever releases an unfiltered copy of his notes and outline for the last book).

As someone who has only read the first book and half of the second before falling off…I have no idea if this is parody or not but I enjoyed it immensely.

@raid4deforce259

4 ай бұрын

It's barely a parody.

@ktkatte6791

4 ай бұрын

he more or less explained things honestly and accurately the fourth book is genuinely the best of the series; don't @ me i am not taking questions if you disagree you're wrong

@Slowbuilderchallenge

4 ай бұрын

@@ktkatte6791 God Emperor of Dune was a breath of fresh air to me after how busy Children of Dune felt. It tops the series for me too.

@darkrad7535

4 ай бұрын

pretty much accurate

@ijustreview

4 ай бұрын

It's not a parody at all this is 100% real

I got a box set with the first set of Dune books (Dune, Dune Messiah, and Children of Dune) and I was thoroughly content to stop there, especially when I found out that God Emperor of Dune takes place thousands of years later. Also no token Tolkien fan going "Well, Tolkien hated Dune. Go read Lord of the Rings instead"

@acidjumps

4 ай бұрын

just wait thousands of years and read the sequel for full immersion

@JCPRuckus

4 ай бұрын

For my money 'Children' and 'God Emperor' are the best two. I believe you did yourself a disservice.

@FALGSC616

4 ай бұрын

gonna go in a completely different direction and say the first four books are actually a trilogy-the second and third books, being shorter than, and more reliant on the events of, the first book, are only one book really, serving as a transition between the first and third epics.

@gilian2587

4 ай бұрын

There's plenty of time to read Tolkien and Herbert and Verne and even Burroughs if you're feeling spicy.

@ltb1345

4 ай бұрын

My dad always just talks about the first three books. Seems like a well-rounded trilogy.

The answer is you should read 1-4. 5 & 6 feel more like spin-offs than sequels, but you can read them if you're desperate for more. There is some good stuff in there. But 1-4 is essential and 4 is a perfect ending.

I've just started _God Emperor of Dune_ and can't wait to see how amazingly batshit it gets. Arrrakis is now kind of more of a temperate world than a desert one. The worms are dead, reducing half the galaxy to spice-hobos who will do anything for a whiff of cinnamon. The Emperor lives in a cartoon doom fortess in the middle of said desert guarded by genetically engineered direwolves. And Duncan has been brought back to life by the -Drukhari- Tleilaxu and killed over and over by the wrinkly worm god king possessed by an African despot from ancient Earth for shits and giggles -- but it's so totally all part of Leto's plan for humanity, you guys! Can you imagine how batshit and terrible everything would be if this guy _hadn't_ seized the tiller of the universe!?

@FALGSC616

4 ай бұрын

don't remember the African despite, who, some pharaoh?

@flatmars7072

4 ай бұрын

It's been a minutes but I'm pretty sure Leto II wasn't possessed? He's a tyrant but I'm pretty sure he's just also Leto II haha

@gilian2587

4 ай бұрын

Beware thee, all squirrels who enter here.

@Gladiatorgames987

4 ай бұрын

He kinda explained it at the end of Children. Leto II accepts the genetic memories and becomes and amalgamation of his ancestors. They each have influence and may make an outward appearance, but he is still in charge.@@flatmars7072

@SpankeyLuvinIt

4 ай бұрын

@@flatmars7072Harum. At the end of Children of Dune Leto all but admits he succumbed to some form of abomination

I remember talking about turning into a sandworm god to a family member who'd never read the books and only saw that one movie from prehistory and I got stopped to ask if I was still talking about Dune.

@TheACcam

2 ай бұрын

I've had people asking me if I was making stuff up when trying to explain the six Dune books to them.

I'm interested to hear what people thought Dune was about and what Frank Herbert wanted it to be about. As a Biology student I always thought it was about how ecosystems are interconnected and how humans are trying to remove themselves from that system so they can control it.

@midnightbloomofeorzea7182

4 ай бұрын

The introduction of the second book in recent printings explains it. Basically, while ecosystem is a big part of it, a more prominent point of the Dune books is how religion is a tool for power and that while it can bring some good changes, hero worship is not a good thing. Fans of the first book themselves didn't see the hints in the text as to where Paul's rule of the universe would go, and hero worshipped him the same way as people would to a Greek hero. That was never the point so Dune Messiah shows how that power runs away from Paul and ultimately leads to tragedy. It's a teardown of the "chosen savior is a good thing" idea, and yeah a lot of people at the time hated that Paul was shown to be imperfect at the time. Children and God Emperor kind of do the same thing with Leto II but with the added caveat of "necessary evil" thrown in.

@yuvalgabay1023

4 ай бұрын

Dune is really all about the dangers of charismatic leaders​@@midnightbloomofeorzea7182

@Zexy_Lover

4 ай бұрын

​@@midnightbloomofeorzea7182 Thanks it's been a while since I've read them. Is the begining of the second book where it is explained that there was a jihad for the sake of Paul? It's not shown in the books but theres an intergalactic war right?

@midnightbloomofeorzea7182

4 ай бұрын

@@Zexy_Lover Yes, exactly. And in the book Paul compares himself to Hitler and Genghis Khan, noting that they each killed millions of people but he has killed billions and sterilized planets.

@SirLudan

4 ай бұрын

​@@midnightbloomofeorzea7182How do people just gloss over that stuff when reading the first book? The ecosystem part is good and is the basis of the whole book. But how do you miss the religious tones of the book? Paul has what feels like a million visions of how there will be a Jihad in his name, and how his rule will bring death to millions if not billions. It's implier VERY strongly. And then the second book just confirms it.

As someone who has read all 6 main books, this is 100% accurate.

@sernoddicusthegallant6986

4 ай бұрын

Not entirely, The Beefswelling scene was in book 3 not book 5

@dancegregorydance6933

4 ай бұрын

He probably meant the chain of sausages scene on Heretics.

@maninblack3410

4 ай бұрын

@@sernoddicusthegallant6986 which makes it worse cuz Leto was 9… but it was still pretty bad because the Duncan in the scene he’s referring to is only like 14 or 15 right?

@roge2342

4 ай бұрын

There is also a scene in either the 5th or 6th book (probably the 6th iirc) in which the Bene Gesserit literally sexually assaults a little boy and nobody talks about it? Like, was I the only one who was weirded out by that?

@maninblack3410

4 ай бұрын

@@roge2342 yep! It’s *probably* a hint from Frank saying “hey, this is a pretty explicit reason for you to remember: despite these being the main characters you’re not supposed to root for them.” Like, the action is a very horrific extreme of “the ends justifying the means” that’s 100% all throughout the series… but there are also still other examples that make you 🤨 so who knows Edit: and then his son and the other author come in and literally justify the means by the ending with a paper thin “we have Frank’s outline, we promise we know what’s up guys” despite very obviously changing the intended trajectory.

This has to be the most accurate summary of a topic I’ve ever seen on KZread

I recently started reading Dune. I have a lot of time while on the train, for uni purposes, and reading Dune to pass the time is great. I'm currently reading Children of Dune, approaching the end, and I thought it was great, so far.

Damn, I felt that on a cellular level. Have to admit however that Dune Messaiah is my absolute favourite of the series.

@enjaad1654

4 ай бұрын

Yeah Dune Messiah starts getting seriously weird, but in a cool kind of way. Like that chill friend coming up with crazy scenarios. Definitely my favorite as well. It nuances the conclusion of the first one.

@thibaud1832

4 ай бұрын

God-Emperor is the best thing ever but Messiah is definitely my second favorite . It’s heresy but I had mixed feelings on Dune, Messiah is what hooked me on the series.

@SteveNathn

3 ай бұрын

@@thibaud1832. Agreed. The original is actually my second to least favorite of the series, as odd as that sounds

Little known fact: in an early draft of Children of Dune, Leto was actually named Beef Swellington.

I actually really liked Children of Dune. Its probably my favorite.

Tried having this convo with my mom before the movie came out since she's a huge Dune fan, and surprisingly this is so close to how it went.

@MsFlamingFlamer

2 ай бұрын

It’s basically the conversation I had with my husband. He was able to read Dune and Dune Messiah and really liked them. But he tuned out at Children.

Here's my DUNE story: I tried reading it many years ago. I didn't get far. I couldn't follow what was going on. All I remember was something about giant worms. And sand. So. Much. Sand. I tried it again this past year and, for whatever reason, it clicked for me. I loved it! When I got to the end, I wanted to read a bit of the first chapter again, now that I had more understanding of it all. Before I knew it, I had come to the end again. I'm a huge re-reader. But not right after I've finished a book the first time! Then I read DUNE MESSIAH. If it hadn't been a library book, I would have thrown it across the room in frustration. And if that's correct about the 5th book, then I guess Book 1 is as far as I need to go. Eeeeew!

@gyrow1684

4 ай бұрын

As a former Muslim, the first book resonated a lot with me due to the religious nature of the Fremen and the obvious source of inspiration for that. The second book slightly felt like fan fiction but with good moments. I haven't read the other books yet.

@titan4257

4 ай бұрын

Man, I loved the first three books. Why does Messiah get so much dislike?

@feliperoa5821

4 ай бұрын

I don't like sand, it's coarse, rough, irritating and it gets everywhere

@njux1871

4 ай бұрын

Funny. I found Dune Messiah much cooler than the first one. But I'd also stop after that, it's a solid duology. I agree though that it kinda feels like fanfiction in some strange way.

@denimator05

4 ай бұрын

​​@@titan4257 I agree. I thought Dune Messiah, while it didn't have as much action and interesting story beats as the original, it was still a pretty enjoyable read. My guess is that people don't like it because the first book build up Paul as an epic hero of prophecy fighting to free a whole planet, but the second examines the flaws with the first interpretation that people thought

The funny thing for me is telling people what the 4th book is about, is usually what gets people to read the first one

I'm about to get into the 4th book and hearing you say this makes me more excited to read it.

@Ariana.333

4 ай бұрын

Also just subscribe because yeah this was gold..

@landanross2966

4 ай бұрын

Enjoy it! It’s a wild ride but it’s super good

Just read the ones written by Frank Herbert If you dont want to read that many books.. read the first one, but understand its not the origin story of a hero, its a warning about the danger of charismatic leaders - the other books provide this understanding.

@TheInfectous

4 ай бұрын

Dune itself provides that understanding, honestly if someone fails to read that in dune I don't think any of the other books will help. The issue isn't a lack of clarity, it's a lack of thought on the readers part, they read for entertainment and don't consider books as imparting ideas. Or as sad as it is to admit, they are partial to dictators and so aren't prompted to think by reactions of disgust at evolution of the fremen.

@ethanaskey7285

4 ай бұрын

@@TheInfectous idk if you missed the message in the first book sure you weren't paying enough attention, but if you don't get the message by the end of messiah you're REALLY DUMB

@willamyte

2 ай бұрын

@@TheInfectous For some who don't get it Dune Messiah will either open their eyes or make them hat Messiah.

And can I just add, your sense of humor is fucking hilarious… The whole "well Frank Herbert sure wanted it to be" delivered completely dead pan, looking away from the camera, with a slight rise to the eyebrows, had me laughing so hard I was eternally thankful I had swallowed my drink of water before that came up, or it would have been everywhere. I was literally clutching my sides, with tears in my eyes, I had to actually stop it and go back. Fucking brilliant

Some genuine advice, boiled down best I can, go in three stages. 1. Read Dune, it’s a classic for a reason. If you really liked Dune, and aren’t adverse to elevated political drama, then… 2. Dive in and commit to the first trilogy. Take it slow, and don’t force it if you get burnt out. But, you’ll get the full scope of the story of Paul Atreides. Now, after that, if you’re curious to see how weird ol’ Franky Herb can get… 3. Read God Emperor of Dune, it is a TRIP. It’ll also probably leave you tapped out on Dune. Which is the right feeling. Not only is the last trilogy incomplete, but it seems like Frank Herbert is kinda going through the motions. Then Brian comes in and it becomes a cash cow. He’s co-written 19 Dune books since 99’. Just stick to Paul Atreides, and maybe the worm man if you’re cool.

The existence and continuance of the Dune Saga by Brain is completely antithetical to the message of the original 6 books. Total CHOAM moment. Wish bro would stop already; whatever he writes are soulless husks and while they serve as okay pop science fiction they completely miss the point of Dune which was not "ooh, look, spaceships and sandworms, so cool" but actually a mediation on the dangers of power and charismatic leaders, ecological destruction and so much more that just isn't there in the extended series. But ig he'll stop beating this dead horse only when it stops making money. Anyway, BEEFSWELLING Loved the vid! Would love to see videos with this premise on other series/authors :), so hoping this video does amazing.... (Brando Sando 👀👀, mayhaps?)

@ThaGamingMisfit

2 ай бұрын

Oh look, another one trying to be in the cool kids 'I HATE BRIAN' club and make all kinds of stuff up to make it look as if I had an argument.

@overbeb

20 күн бұрын

@@ThaGamingMisfit It's just true, Brian doesn't understand the universe his father created. Biggest example being the Butlerian Jihad, it's supposed to be a war between people over how thinking machines were used by people who controlled them, not a literal war against rogue A.I. like we're in the Terminator series.

A lot of beefswelling may take place with the sandworm🍿 buckets as we speak💀

I read them when I was a teen and the Lynch movie came out and enjoyed them but didn't fully understand them. Read the first 2 (and 3/4 of the 3rd) when the Villeneuve movie came out to sort of brush up and I came to the conclusion that I actually like the synopsis of the books that you can find online better than I like the books themselves.

I actually really liked the 3rd book, albeit I already knew about some elements like the Golden Path from external sources, so i had a better idea of what i was reading than others.

@hugmynutus

4 ай бұрын

Agreed. The best one in my opinion.

@big_sis_moon

4 ай бұрын

Yes it's my favorite in the series! Four was cool too, but I didn't really like any of the characters beyond Leto II.

@DirkMcThermot

4 ай бұрын

I found the middle half of it to be incredibly page-turning! But it kinda lost steam as it wrapped up in the final act. I also absolutely adore the second book and it boggles my mind to see how so many people hate it to this day.

@Rauruatreides

4 ай бұрын

@pizza7495 yeah you mainly read book 4 for Leto II philosophy and convos.

@big_sis_moon

4 ай бұрын

@@Rauruatreides yeah those were by far the best part of the book

The beefswelling has been a repressed memory until this very moment! 😂😂😂 I read the whole series at 12 lol

I love these types of videos you do. Would be fun if you would do more series! 😊

I read the books by Brian and Kevin that finish the main story of the second trilogy and I thought they were good, not great but I'm happy I read them. I'm glad it didn't just end with that cliffhanger and never get finished. It would've take away from the second trilogy if it wasn't finished.

I think in therms of main series it is either: -Read just book 1. -Read books 1-4. -Read books 1-6 if you can handle a cliffhanger non-ending. -Read books 1-6+sequels(7,8) if you hate cliffhangers and think that any ending is better than a non-ending.

Every time i hear about dune i understand less and less of it, Someday i'll read it and the fact of its existence will just get wiped from my mind

I always tell people Dune makes great tetralogy, because God Emperor fills you with this ginormous feeling of "well that was a wacko ride" and there isn't really a big push to keep going, especially if you look at Dune as Arrakis' Atreides dynasty series, and not just Duncan Idaho Intergalactic Reincarnation Isekai. It's hard for many people to keep the suspension of disbelief after 1000yr time skip, but to me GEoD makes explosive finale to the series, whether FH intended that or not. I'm not just talking about that wall climbing scene. But it's up there too.

Honestly the themes of the first book are pretty overt. I understand that most people don't think at all when consuming media (and given how common the sentiment of "X is great but the newer stuff got political" despite talking about something that was openly and heavily political in the first place,) I'm not surprised to hear people didn't get the first book but like... god damn it's a fucking book; paul speaks in pretty much literal terms about the themes.

There is not a single joke in this video, this is all 100% accurate to how I’ve seen this conversation go EVERY time.

Thoroughly enjoyed your take on how Dune fans recommend the books! Your insights and humor really make your videos enjoyable to watch. It's interesting to see the passion and dedication of the Dune community. Perhaps turning this into a series would be a great idea given the success of your Wheel of Time video. Looking forward to more content like this!

When I read the first book, it felt like I was reading Shakespeare. Not that it was hard to understand (Honestly easier than Shakespeare) just that it had that style

Paul runs away to join the circus, the Bene Gesseritt are just straight up Psychic Jedi, and in the end a clone of Leto is a wereworm and God takes all the bad evil AI to their another dimension except for the psychopathic robot who they are convinced is actually a protagonist. There, you don't need to read the Brian Herbert books. Oh sorry I forgot that they explain the reasons for not followin the canon of Frank's books as Frank's books being fictional accounts while also claiming their own works are legitimate because they are using Frank's notes. Which they won't show to anyone. I used to have a challenge that you could give me a random page number from one of the BH/KJA books and I could find something wrong within one page of it, either a major misunderstanding of the Dune universe and themes or an internally inconsistant error.

My colleague read the first one and asked me about the sequels, inquiring "is it always the same characters? Or does it move forward in time a bit?" I had no idea how to answer without spoiling (and sounding insane). "Well actually, none of the characters come back for all the sequels, except of course for the zombie-clone of that one character who died in the first one. And it moves 10 years then 10 years then 3500 years then 1500 years forward. Oh plus a few flash forward to 10000 years after the first one (5000 years after the son of Paul became an almost immortal worm hybrid and then died))"

I thoroughly enjoyed this video, especially your unique perspective on how Dune fans recommend the books. It's interesting to see the passion and dedication that the fandom has for these novels. Your comparison to the Wheel of Time video was also insightful. Keep up the great work, and I hope you continue to make this into a series.

I read the first one 2 years ago. I just brought the 2nd one from the library because i've heard its a good conclusion to the first one and since I didn't love the first one maybe it will be good. But I dont expect going further than that

Totally on point. The short answer from me is always: just read the first and you're good. There are good reasons why 99% of the many derivative works that came out of Dune stop there. As for God Emperor... it gave us so many good memes.

I'm about to read the first book and was literally asking this question, thank you and your perfect timing

pretty accurate. I actually quite liked books 5 and 6, Miles Teg was a cool character.

@landanross2966

4 ай бұрын

5 and 6 are getting too much hate in these comments, they’re awesome. Miles is a good character and it’s super interesting to learn about the internal dynamics and thought processes of the bene gesserit

@legrandliseurtri7495

3 ай бұрын

It's funny seeing all of the people praising book 4 but hating book 5 and 6. The decisions that the god emperor makes only make sense in retrospect, once you know what was the big threat that he foresaw.

@merrittanimation7721

3 ай бұрын

Yes but did they have to molest him

@Matthew-nw1zn

3 ай бұрын

Miles Teg is awesome. Duke Leto on steroids.

God Emperor of Dune is probably my favorite one of the series and one of my favorite books ever. Don't remember a thing of the fifth one, it's there on my library, I must have read it cause I remember trying the sixth one twice, not getting hooked for the life of me, wondering if there was a point on keeping on with the series knowin his son continued it but doubting they would be as good, I then read "The Winds of Dune" to check out he's son's writing, and decided there was no point for me to continue with the series.

Book 2 ends at a perfect stopping point and I neither know nor care what comes after it.

@ThanhTran-gb4pw

3 ай бұрын

You're missing out on a lot, especially in book 4.

@justfellicitya

2 ай бұрын

That makes me sad for you.

Isn't the beefswelling in the third book? Also what's worse, adult beefswelling or fat pink mast?

@andre_santos2181

3 ай бұрын

Yes, beefswelling was on the ?sex? ?vision? of Leto and Sabine (Sahine? Saline? Satine?)

My man Griff made the extremely sweet art for these new covers. Stoked to see it in the wild.

I want more about why the Brian books aren't worth reading. It's too easy/convenient to say "author changed; books bad" and I crave a more complex story, or at least some more details

@flippanties

4 ай бұрын

There's not really much to say other than that Brian just is not a good writer. It's not about the author being different; it's about a significantly less talented author gaining control over a series he seems intent on milking till it's drier than Arrakis itself.

@ethanaskey7285

4 ай бұрын

what the first guy said plus i think brians analysis of his father's own series is just plain wrong, he doesn't seem to actually understand what dune was about, because he leans so hard into the threat of robots, when 99% of dune is about human development, the dangers of believing in a messiah, and the dangers of technology when put in the wrong hands, not just robots bad.

@RexMcTavish

4 ай бұрын

I started with house atreides as a teenager after having just read a bunch of Isaac Asimov and LOTR and enjoyed it just fine. then I jumped to Dune and thoroughly enjoyed all 6 to varying degrees. The writing is different, but still entertaining and interesting if your standards aren't overly high. It's just Sci Fi.

@Gabriel64468

4 ай бұрын

@@ethanaskey7285I read a Bit of a summary because I was considering getting into them, and when I saw that Duncan‘s Vision from 5/6 just got retconned to be about machines I knew it wasn‘t for me. Can‘t speak about the quality of the writing, but that was such a massive Shift in direction for no reason.

@Colp2

4 ай бұрын

I've only read some summaries of the material, so I cannot speak to the quality of the writing (though I hear it's not great)... but as a couple of others have already said, it just seems like he has some fundamental misunderstandings about what his father wanted to convey with his novels. Brian's ideas for many concepts in the lore seem to be VERY different from those in the original six novels, usually in a way which removes most of the depth and nuance, reducing the complexity of the narrative to become a far more simple good-vs-evil type story. It essentially takes a story where one of the main themes is that you shouldn't rely on heroes, and turns it into a superhero story. Plus, they apparently introduce a bunch of shit which just sound like some ridiculous satire or fanfiction; ***Massive SPOILERS for the Brian Dune novels below*** ***SPOILERS*** - "Ultraspice", which comes from genetically altered sandworms which now live in the ocean instead (displacing the half-fish-half-man creatures living there). - Some sort of warp drives so foldspace isn't needed anymore. - Alternate universes - Daniel and Marty, shown at the end of Chapterhouse and foreshadowed to be some sort of advanced Face Dancers, are instead revealed to be intelligent robots which survived from the Butlerian Jihad, and they launch thousands of von Neumann probes to re-create the "Synchronized Empire" and restore the robot leader Evermind. - The inventor of foldspace tech is revealed to still be alive, now tens of thousands of years old and evolved into a godlike entity who saves the day and stops the evil robots by taking away their leader. - The latest version of Duncan merges with the leader of the remaining machines, becoming half-human-half-robot. - Gholas are made of Leto, Leto II, Chani, Jessica, Yueh, the Baron, the leader of the Butlerian Jihad, Hawat, Alia, multiple Paul clones (two of which are forced to battle to show which is better), etc. - The Leto II ghola regains his memories and merge seven worms together into a giant superworm. - Arrakis is revealed to NOT have been destroyed, and is recovering instead. - It ends with Paul/Chani living happily ever after on Arrakis, and Leto/Jessica living happily ever after on Caladan.

Dune books: The Father: Book 1 and 2 The Son: Book 3 and 4 The Heirs: Book 5 and 6 (and 7 and 8) The best book? 4 obviously.

That was very helpful. As a fan of the original book in the movie adaptations, both old and new. I wasn't sure what I was going to do if I was going to read anymore but glad to know that I should. Thank you

Brother you need to buy a razor immediately. That neck stuff is crazy 😂

I'm on book 16, yes reading the Son's work. Yes it is not the dad but some of the most demented stuff I ever read. Truly what sci fi should be like. He keeps his dad's parallels to the real world encoded in. The Cymek,, extreme ludditism, hypocritical politics. The prequels are great. But now enjoying the House of Harkonens - truly sick. Good old Vladimir

I finished God Emperor. I keep hearing mixed things about reading on. And yes, "that scene" is one of the things I've been warned about.

@FreshPelmeni

4 ай бұрын

I’m about a quarter of the way through it right now. How much further do I have to go before I am thoroughly disturbed?

@Slowbuilderchallenge

4 ай бұрын

I couldn't get past page 50 of Heretics of Dune until I forced myself to finish the series mid last year (I finished God Emperor in 2016). It doesn't get bad per se but it definitely gets **weird**, as others have said. The good parts outweigh the bad, but at certain times only by the thinnest of margins.

@Matthew-nw1zn

3 ай бұрын

Miles Teg in heretics alone is worth it imo.

@thomashobbes8786

2 ай бұрын

Too much good in 5-6 not to read.

As a long time Dune fan, books and the mini series they did b4 the most recent, this hits the spot. I did read 3-5 of the son's continued series and enjoyed them as books expanding the Dune universe. I'm not sure how egregious his writing has become but they can be enjoyed :)

Aaarg, I had blessedly forgotten all about the beefswelling.

This is accurate to my experience. One of these days I'll restart the second book

Thanks for the fun vid GE. :) I think that Frank Herbert's Dune Series really splinters its reader audience across a wide range of perspectives on it. Many of the readers will consume it once, and then share from among a handful of fairly shared views on it with each other. But the more a reader re-reads and rabbit holes the books, the more their perspective on it can broaden, deepen, fragment, cross reference, reconnect, transform, and dump into (and rescue from) various concept desert islands.

Jason Manoa is probably going to be 80 when they still keep making the movies and need him to keep coming back

If they decide to make Dune sequels then Jason Momoa better be prepared

Currently reading Children of Dune and I’ve personally enjoyed all three of them so far. I’m only planning to continue through God Emperor from what I’ve heard from others. Also I really enjoyed Messiah a lot.

@thomashobbes8786

2 ай бұрын

Heretics and Chapterhouse deepen God Emperor. I always recommend anyone who gets to 4 finish through 6.

@ThaGamingMisfit

2 ай бұрын

In 'others' you mean the cool kids club namde 'I HATE BRIAN' ? Heck if anything skip book 4-6 and read the legends trilogy.

@ModeloBloodReplacement

Ай бұрын

@@ThaGamingMisfit fuck the brian books little goobert

You've convinced me! I'm defintely 100% going to Dune now.

I think the last two are perhaps the greatest examination of humanity in literature.

All six books are definitely worth a read and even a re-read some years later, the first being my favorite.

So after reading each book, consider what is the Golden Path. Then after the fourth book, read the first three books again and think what happened for the Golden Path.

I need help i have watched dune movie part 1&2 as well should i skip book 1&2 of Frank Herbert and start reading book 3... need help

@xen0bia

Ай бұрын

Dune part 1 and 2 only cover the first book, so don't skip Dune Messiah. Also, even though you have seen the movies you still should read Dune.

This is almost the same mental conversation I had with myself as I was getting into the Duneverse.

Well you're not wrong hahah Also I quite liked Chapterhouse, and the fact that it leaves unanswered questions.

@thomashobbes8786

2 ай бұрын

Love Chapterhouse. Not sure why so many ate hating on 5-6 tbh

I read the first three, realized where the series was going, and decided to escape while I still loved it.

Currently almost done with book 1...realy excited for book 4 now xD

I started reading the 1st book to have it read before this 2024 movie :) btw, I thought you were going to answer the how many book question also with it depends😂

Heretics of Dune and Chapterhouse: Dune were ... Well, I still enjoy the series, but I wasn't prepared for the graphic sex scenes. Maybe I should have been, and there was the implication that it would happen based on the build up in Heretics, as it is main method of control used by the H.M., but ... besides that, they do explore interesting ideas, and that old couple who keep showing up and are implied to be facedancers were an interesting mystery. Also, I read a couple of the early prequel books before I'd been exposed to enough literature to realise their flaws, and how they were Dune in name only, but at the time I enjoyed them.

@Rakonax

3 ай бұрын

Read the Brian Sequels. They arent perfect, but they are good, as long as you can accept that franks notes didnt allign with all populär fan theories

@LaerHeiSeiRyuu

2 ай бұрын

Brian should release the notes

I really think Miles Teg and Odrade make 5 and 6 worth reading

I had close to this exact conversation several times when the chalomet movie came out

I read the series for dune, enders game, and foundation all around the same time like 15 years ago, and it's fun trying to eek out my memories of what happened in Dune towards the end just from these descriptions 😂

This actually helps me a lot. I wanted to check out Dune some time ago but got confused where I'm supposed to start and what the reading order is. This video made it pretty clear: You just read it from book 1, to book 6. Dunno why I was getting such confusing answers on the internet before. If anyone would be willing, what's the name of each book? Since there are all these sequels and whatnot, I'd rather know what the individual books of the ones I'm supposed to read are actually called.

@familyguy522

4 ай бұрын

1. Dune 2. Dune Messiah 3. Children of Dune 4. God emperor of Dune 5. Heretics of Dune 6. Chapterhouse Dune

@TheInfectous

4 ай бұрын

I would read and stop at either 1, 2 or 4. I didn't make it through 5 but I did try. Those ones all have a pretty good and conclusive ending where you can stop and won't feel a void on the story. Honestly 1 is the only really good book, I think the rest suffer from meandering and also have their own periods of excessive... well let's just say trying to describe psychedelic experiences over the course of multiple chapters does not exactly read well. All of what I read has interesting enough ideas they are worth reading they're just not really as compelling.

@tylerwilliams3368

4 ай бұрын

Of the six original books, I would honestly break them all down into 3 duologies. Each duology focusing on a different main character. Dune and Dune Messiah are a pair dealing with Paul as the main character. Children of Dune and God Emperor of Dune is centered around his son. Then the final two books will be centered on another main character (which I will not name). You can use that knowledge as a barometer on whether you want to see a certain character’s arc finish or just drop out completely.

@Hudelf

4 ай бұрын

@@TheInfectous I would mostly second this. I do recommend anyone that enjoys the first book to at least read the second. If you're still into it, read up to 4 so you can understand all the juicy memes, and because a ton of people find it to be their favorite (though it wasn't mine). I would only recommend reading past that if you're dying for more, but be prepared for a let down as far as endings go (there really isn't one).

@aaronjung5502

3 ай бұрын

@@TheInfectous True from a certain point of view, but YMMV. I read them all at too young an age and my brain got warped so I love it all, but I've known people who had trouble with how dry the prose is in original Dune, with most finding the writing to be more tolerable as they advance in the series. To me Messiah feels like it should have been an fourth part of book 1, seeing as it's almost as long as each of the constituent sections of the first book and makes the point the first book was meant to, and Children feels like Frank got bored halfway through and decided to start writing a new, different sci-fi series on his advance.

Do I need to start reading the dune series to understand this video

@thomashobbes8786

2 ай бұрын

No. But you do need to finish the series to appreciate this video. 😊

SPOT ON!!!!!!!!!! The first two books are gripping and immersive, but feel unsatisfying - like some great revelation is just a page turn away. Sooooo, you spend time on 3-6 trying to find that satisfying conclusion..... and it never gets there. But it still feels like it is just..... one..... more..... page.....

i know its a really smalll fandom but could you make one about the dark tower series?

And you end up reading so many recommended books that one day you’ll wakeup and find yourself reading the Masterharper of Pern and you’ll ask yourself “Where am I and how did I get here?...”

@thomashobbes8786

2 ай бұрын

Been there lol

1:51 THE HONEST reaction of every Dune fan on Brian Herbert's books.

@isaacbruner65

4 ай бұрын

I don't know if some of the hate towards those books is just blind hate because they weren't written by the original author, but, for me, I actually read the sequel books and they fucking sucked. And I didn't know until after I read them that they were so hated by fans. Never got around to the prequels, though.

@ThaGamingMisfit

2 ай бұрын

Look someone who looks in the mirror and call the image 'everyone'. No need to trying getting in the cool kids 'I HATE BRIAN' club.

@ThaGamingMisfit

2 ай бұрын

It's good to see there are still actual dune fans that don't feel the need to belong to the hate fanclub.@@isaacbruner65

if i had friends this would be the convos

I'm pretty sure the beef swelling line was in children of dune but I haven't finished yet

You forgot to shave the sides of your neck

@zachdonabedian7828

2 ай бұрын

How is no one else mentioning this

Not going to lie, I spent most of this video perplexed why the choice was made to have a clean shaven face but also to have a beard on the sides of your neck.

@unihumi

4 ай бұрын

same here

@zachdonabedian7828

2 ай бұрын

Bizarre

Just finished Children of Dune and there is a reference to beef swelling in that one as well

You completely nailed it. This is so accurate.

Would be great to have a video in this style about recommending Samuel Beckett's "Waiting for Godot", but I do get it's not scifi or fantasy... 😅 Still though, explaining the plot is ever so entertaining. 😆

@YumYumEYES

4 ай бұрын

How would one even sell the idea of Waiting for Godot lmao. It's so interpretation-based. But I would certainly love to see it!

@AinoHiat

4 ай бұрын

@@YumYumEYES Guess the pitch would be like "So they're waiting for this guy named Godot." "Does he arrive?" "Yeah, he comes tomorrow." "So he comes tomorrow?" "Yeah he comes tomorrow." "And what happens then?" "Well, he comes tomorrow." "And...?" "See, he comes tomorrow, and they wait..." Or something like that.

@gilian2587

4 ай бұрын

Let me tell you a story that is so minimalistic, so void of solid content and so shocking in the minimal content that it does have; that I could hand you a stone tablet with a hammer and chisel and let you etch whatever arbitrary context which comes to mind regarding the significance of the story. Once you have completed your engraving; I will place your stone tablet on exhibition and declare it as a work of art to be held against the thousand other tablets that are also on display.