The fact that Leslye Headland is painting a Sith as misunderstood and oppressed is frigging HILARIOUS. Meta Irony.

@BearthatBaresFoodinBelly

14 күн бұрын

Plus I don't think the Sith even see themselves that way. They would see it as "yeah that's what the prey animal would do"

@ciro_costa

14 күн бұрын

No they're not Why are you taking the words of a murderer as good? Qimir is all bad. He has no qualities. He's not misunderstood. He's a villain.

@hotfroganimations

14 күн бұрын

@@ciro_costajust you wait buddy, we’ve been here before. Last time I was defending lucasfilm. Not this time -_-

@ThespianPrince13

14 күн бұрын

@@BearthatBaresFoodinBellyNo, the Sith actually do see themselves as that in both legends and canon. In canon, Sidious takes Maul to Malachor. There, Maul inhales the ashes of dead Sith and is given a vision of the past. Sidious tells Maul that the Sith of the past were killed because they wanted to be free and liberated, but the hypocritical Jedi wiped them out because of this. Don’t know why Thor is getting mad. The concept is great, but the execution in Headland’s hands is trash.

@drtaverner

14 күн бұрын

​@@BearthatBaresFoodinBelly Sith think they're the Alphas. 😅

The Sith are self-centered... And when the people making the show are self-centered, of course they would want to portray the Sith as sympathetic. Nobody wants to see themselves as the bad guy.

@Tool30301

14 күн бұрын

Couldn't have said it better

@ThespianPrince13

14 күн бұрын

Exactly. The execution sucks here, though.

@DevastationMtrsports

14 күн бұрын

Except in an interviewr she explicitly said she identified with the queerr coded villains in Disney films like Ursala as a young girl, and she has mentioned her early work in interviews about this show.

@jacobhelms4421

14 күн бұрын

Good insight!

@retagainez

13 күн бұрын

Thats... too true.

The thing about Osha is that she is always looking to prevent accidents in the workplace.

@Miketar2424

14 күн бұрын

Yes, and it seems she begins to be drawn to the force 'worker' that uses protective equipment like a noise cancelling helmet, and arm pads because this is a much more sensible and natural way to operate in the 'workplace'.

@Emarella

14 күн бұрын

Criminally underrated comment right here.

@lv13david

14 күн бұрын

She was just inspecting the helmet for breathing hazards. Very thoughtful....

@paulhodgers

14 күн бұрын

Unless you're forklift certified I reject your opinion.

@mikekolokowsky

14 күн бұрын

Without her, the Empire built the Death trap Star with countless walkways over gaping chasms without any hand rails.

1970-2005: Literally the Sith are evil incarnate. 2024: the Sith are misunderstood oppressed Emo’s

@nolongeramused8135

13 күн бұрын

I'm sure there's considerable overlap.

@kovie9162

13 күн бұрын

No, Qimir is pretending to be a misunderstood oppressed emo in order to seduce Osha. How can anyone not see this? It's so obvious. This isn't Headland's perspective. This is Qimir's perspective as written by her. He played the fool to fool Mae, and is now playing the poor little misunderstood mass murderer to seduce Osha. He's clearly evil. He's just trying to make them not think that he's evil, to get to them.

@danielvader15

13 күн бұрын

Also Palpatine in 2005: Anakin, help me, the Jedi are taking over!!!!!

@questionmaker5666

13 күн бұрын

@@danielvader15 Palpatine was playing loose with the truth.

@TheManInBlueFlames

13 күн бұрын

To be fair, they made Anakin seem sympathetic but this show does it terribly.

I mean... she was personal assistant to real life monster for 4 years without ever realizing something shady was going on, does it really surprise you that this woman is completely and utterly morally bankrupt? Let's not even get into the whole creepy stockholm syndrome between Osha and Qimir.

@qui-gone

13 күн бұрын

Oh she realized. She isn't that dumb. She knew what was going on in Harvey's office. Why do you think she's portraying a monster in "good light"?

@Sp4ghettiYeti

13 күн бұрын

All of Hollywood knew what was going on with Harvey, they made jokes about it during the Oscars back in 2013

@matiasluukkanen7718

13 күн бұрын

She KNEW exactly what Weinstein was doing.

@DorisDay-lw4xs

13 күн бұрын

Her hard drives need sharing with the cops !

Given Hedland’s past employment and associates, Thor’s musing that some people reject the idea of true goodness so that they can feel better about their own choices, and their own deviant behaviour, may be more accurate than not.

@renatonovis

14 күн бұрын

Honestly, this shit stopped being funny and started being creepy. How did this woman got this position? Best case scenario she was completely negligent on her job for not noticing what was going on. And now she directs a show on one of th most popular franchises in the world that is intended to appeal to a young female audience, and put some creepy stockholm syndrome romance in there... there's got to be a point when it stops being just coincidence.

@kovie9162

13 күн бұрын

There's no such thing as pure good. It only exists in (bad) fiction and simplistic interpretations of religious beliefs. I'm not at all an expert on the MU or Germanic myths, but if Thor indeed believed that pure good existed then he was an idiot (and I'm not exactly a fan of German myths that were exploited by the Nazis to defend racial superiority and justify evil, which is massively ironic). But, Headland probably knew better than most just what it was like to know evil and that it's more complex than it's made out to be, having been personal assistant to Harvey Weinstein, a brilliant producer of great movies with an incredible eye for talent and quality, yet also a horrible and evil man. Ever heard of Leni Riefenstahl, the official Nazi photographer and filmmaker? Brilliant artist, horrible person. While on the Nazis, you've probably heard of Oskar Schindler, a corrupt German businessman and member of the Nazi party who nevertheless saved over a thousand Jews from extermination. He was a good man in the end and it doesn't get much better (unfortunately) when it comes to the Holocaust, but he also did bad things before all that. MLK was an adulterer. Lincoln originally didn't intend to free the slaves. And so on. You may choose to believe that life is simple and black and white, but it just isn't.

@kthalas

13 күн бұрын

What is her “deviant behavior”?

@tomg9476

13 күн бұрын

@@kthalasgoogle Harvey Weinstein. It’s gonna blow your mind. And guess what! She was his personal assistant for 4 years! Crazy!

@emberfist8347

12 күн бұрын

@@kthalas She was the personal assistant to one of Hollywood's most infamous predators.

How could someone making Star Wars misunderstand it so badly? Simple answer is, they don't care.

@CantankerousDave

14 күн бұрын

It’s just a product to them, and they’re angry that fans aren’t mindlessly consuming it like they’re supposed to.

@tonep3168

14 күн бұрын

It’s not the fact they don’t care, it’s that they get pleasure from destroying, perverting and taking away something you like. Why do you think they spend so much effort brainwashing little kids at schools?

@hotfroganimations

14 күн бұрын

@@CantankerousDaveGeorge Lucas wanted to make a spectacle of a space soap opera about good and evil, family and war - it wasn’t perfect but nothing is. What it did do was entertain, inspire multiple generations and push technological boundaries. Headland wanted to make money.

@Poptalkandaliens

14 күн бұрын

I don’t think they don’t care. Seems a little too easy an out. I believe it’s worse. The Disney “suits” don’t care for sure, but I think the showrunners “care”, but fundamentally do not understand what the essence of Star Wars is.

@debelmeis2311

14 күн бұрын

@@dereklopez9060 and never have

The Jedi metaphorically represent Enlightenment. Saying the Jedi must end is like saying enlightenment must end.

@achaudhari101

14 күн бұрын

Lord knows this form of enlightenment today is a mistake.

@WarComet

14 күн бұрын

that's exactly what they re trying to do.

@teleportedbreadfor3days

14 күн бұрын

Exactly. And saying they’re oppressive or dominate or some bs they absolutely do not do is denying everything they actually represent: Enlightenment, yes, but also community, living above temptation, and controlling our emotions so that they don’t control us into committing destructive acts that will doom us.

@teleportedbreadfor3days

14 күн бұрын

@@WarComet That’s actually the problem: People like Leslye and Kennedy are ignorant of what the Jedi represent. They’re too selfish to see anything else. So they do this crap _against_ the Jedi and Star Wars.

@jamesneese7663

14 күн бұрын

yes but who gets to define what is The Enlightenment? As we can clearly see, Headland says the jedi represent straight off white child napping patriarchy establishment, and the only way to deal with it is to completely overthrow it because ANYTHING is better than it. And apparently the sith are just misunderstood but good hombres.....

The messages I am hearing from modern Star Wars are: "You are good enough already the way you are." and "Good and evil don't matter.", which makes for a super boring story line. There is no hero journey and no stakes, because the Dark side has good people too.

@Mouse_Metal

13 күн бұрын

It is a narcissist´s power fantasy. There is no journey because narcs don´t see themselves as flawed. Everything has to be someone else´s fault.

Hey Thor, I don’t recall Palpatine dropping his cloak to “seduce” Anakin with the dark side of the force. Unless that was shown on Disney After Dark….?

@kovie9162

13 күн бұрын

Of COURSE he did. Anakin surely suspected Palpatine for quite some time but pretended that he didn't because Palpatine was dangling a prize before him and exploiting his weakness, the desire to protect people he cared about. The excessively avuncular persona as he pretended to mentor Anakin and be his friend, the endless gaslighting and trashing his friends and fellow Jedi, ordering him to kill Dooku, the creepy story at the opera, and so on. Anakin wasn't stupid. He just chose to ignore or deny all this because Palpatine had his number. Anakin wasn't just seduced. He let himself be seduced.

@Mouse_Metal

13 күн бұрын

There are surely some Tumbler fanfics about this. 🤢 And some of them are probably written by the same people who made The Crapolyte.

You can't be surprised when the same company hired Rian Johnson and let him make a Star Wars movie, with a first draft screenplay. He's the poster boy for misunderstanding Star Wars, and she admittedly consulted him.

@gman7497

13 күн бұрын

I struggle to understand why anyone thought Rian was a good idea for a Star Wars sequel. Dude specializes in capers and whodunits, not a straightforward story about good and evil. It's like asking Scorsese to direct a sex comedy.

@disguisedcentennial835

13 күн бұрын

@@gman7497 because they’re as dumb as “oh me like his past work. Work for me!”

@kovie9162

13 күн бұрын

He had some good ideas but executed them horribly. It was fine, even necessary, to show Luke as a shell of his former self, his plan to rebuild the Jedi in shambles. But to the extent that we saw in TLJ, along with that idiotic milk and hunting scene, completely excessive. And shirtless Kylo along with manufacturing this weird attraction between him and Rey after what he did in TFA, what WAS that?!? Bad ideas, bad writing, bad movie. But the core idea that Luke and the Jedi were in trouble was sound, just done wrong.

@erikdayne5429

13 күн бұрын

I was just thinking this show reminds me of the Last Jedi, in the sense that they didn’t care at all about the canon or the story, but instead put all their energy into visual spectacles and “the themes”.

@erikdayne5429

13 күн бұрын

@@kovie9162why would it be necessary to make Luke a shell of his former self? That doesn’t seem necessary at all.

It's a consistent theme across a lot of media, especially media that in the past has been hopeful or portrayed noble ideals. You see it in Star Wars, where the heroes of our past have been deconstructed and the Jedi are portrayed as corrupt and evil. You see it in Star Trek, where the Federation is full of manipulative schemers and Picard is mocked and dismissed. You see it in Superman, where this iconic symbol of hope, truth, and justice is some brooding loner who can't really connect with his planet instead of the loving farm boy his adoptive parents raised him as. There's this sort of vile nihilistic sentiment that all of these companies keep bringing to these iconic visions of hope, prosperity, justice, and kindness, like tearing down our beloved role models is somehow a brilliant and daring bit of artistic expression and not just the base thrill that a bored child gets from destroying something someone else loves. Despite the fact that fans plead with these companies over and over not to do it, despite the fact that they are vocal about not wanting this, these companies do it again and again. And when the fans get upset that the companies have torn apart the thing they love, the companies accuse the fans of being the evil ones.

Notice the message of the showrunner is that the jedi need oversight but the commune of space lez....THEY'RE okay and should be left alone to indulge in dark side practices. As a Supreme Chancellor once said "ironic"

@lightpoint4426

13 күн бұрын

IMHO the showrunner wants their actions directed by the government. I mean, Palpatine would step up, and reluctantly assume control of the Jedi, and would absolutely not abuse it for his own ends. After all, he promised to put those emergency powers aside, right?

@BugRib

13 күн бұрын

The Jedi are a government sanctioned galactic police force. Obviously they need oversight. A small community of "space lezes" (thanks for showing your true colors, BTW), living on a backwater world probably...don't? How can so many criticisms of this show be so incredibly inane? Almost like they aren't actually about the show itself. 🤔

@emberfist8347

12 күн бұрын

@@lightpoint4426 He was such a good man that Palpatine. He mentored a trouble youth, gave quadrillions of people safety and jobs, and reduced unemployment on Alderaan to Zero.

The parallels in the basic-level storytelling missteps between Acolyte and the sequel trilogy are striking.

To support Thor Skywalker’s claim that the Jedi have no problem with leaving the order or they don’t frown upon it. In the clone wars cartoons, Obi Wan admits if the dutches of Mandalor had asked him to stay with her, he would have left the order for her. Also the Jedi had no issues with Dokuu leaving the order, he remained autonomous for years before the clone wars. Yes early on he did convert to the dark side but the Jedi under the assumption he didn’t, were perfectly fine with him doing things until he was revealed he was a sith and helped plan the clone wars

@kirkdarling4120

14 күн бұрын

There was no problem with Ahsoka leaving the order as well.

@onyxrose4349

13 күн бұрын

Dooku was still being invited over for tea by the Jedi Council even after leaving and all of them had such faith and trust in him that despite all their political disagreements they couldn't ever think he'd do what he was actually doing.

@emberfist8347

12 күн бұрын

@@kirkdarling4120 Only Anakin did but well there is a reason he fell.

Knights of the Old Republic 2 does a much better job of picking apart the Jedi, asking questions like how come Jedi are always falling to the Dark Side all the time, when charity actually makes things worse for people, whether the Jedi are too reliant on the Force, and even has the Jedi Masters you’ve been saving decide that your experiences make you the most dangerous threat instead of the actual Sith. And yet the person pointing all of this out (Kreia) isn’t always treated like she’s right and can be seen as suspicious and creepy. Especially once you learn her plan is to destroy the Force itself, regardless if it ends up killing everyone.

@Blisterdude123

14 күн бұрын

KotOR 2 is a masterclass in deconstruction over 'destruction'.

@tglake2894

14 күн бұрын

I saw reporting Headland wants to take a crack at a KOTOR 2 show or movie, so maybe we'll get to see this cherished piece of SW utterly obliterated by that incompetent loser!

@alexkarter5854

13 күн бұрын

​@@tglake2894 recently I've seen a lot of comments praising Acolyte, complaining about the bigoted fans that apparently can't see that the modern star wars are the closest to the brilliance of kotors. When I read such things it actually makes my blood boil, such a hurtful comparison for some reason. Im not even a big star wars fan, but Kotors have a big place in my heart, and then I see that, and I can't comprehend how people can be so broken, so wrong, to put these anywhere near. So many of modern sw shows share concepts and ideas from other sw media, even though executed pathetically, so perhaps these weird fans and writers are actually familiar with the universe surprisingly but somehow on that same wavelength with each other, equally shallow, ready to ruin another good thing with their bad fanfiction. Only hope that the eventual old republic stuff will be made by the "war focused" branch of Disney sw, Roque one and Andor. And that would probably be not that amazing either.

@ArmouredProductions

13 күн бұрын

Thanks for saying it. The idea of a decunstruction or heavy criticism of the Jedi is not a bad concept in of itself. Its just that KOTOR II did it a LOT better.

@alexdeghost2729

13 күн бұрын

How about don’t pick apart the Jedi period. Cringe

Sith are the ones in the chairs telling what Jedi are and aren't. You can't make this up, bro! 💀

Incompetence always seeks to tear down competent work, as building anything is beyond them.

@BarefootPeasant

14 күн бұрын

Yup, creative excellence is hard, whereas tearing down and destroying can be mastered by any fool... whether it be intentional or not. So funny how the latter majority seem to see their ineptitude as something special. It's what too many participation trophies looks like.

Why do those in charge keep trying to overcomplicate star wars? It truly is not that complex...

@ian-flanagan

14 күн бұрын

I think it’s because they view a simple view of good vs evil to be damaging. I kind of agree, but we already have so many amazing movies that teach that message. Just rewatched Saving Private Ryan for example

@TFedits85

13 күн бұрын

@@ian-flanagan you can still blur the line of good and evil in star wars, we've seen it all the time. But the constant of good and evil is the theme, and the Jedi/the force is that constant good

The simple answer to the question you pose is that the writers have a flawed understanding of the real world and how evil and good exist and are not subjective. If I was raised on Disney films as my "faith" or formation of how I view the world then that is probably how I would view our world. Unfortunately there is evil in the world and it doesn't care about your feelings.

@hashimrahman51

14 күн бұрын

It’s called cultural Marxism/moral relativism.

@ziplox2356

14 күн бұрын

@@hashimrahman51 It certainly is and Darwin's Law will come to them all in the end I believe

@swordfromthemouth

14 күн бұрын

@@hashimrahman51 Bingo!

@teleportedbreadfor3days

14 күн бұрын

Faith is missing in this stuff. All that’s there is dollar signs, bias and agendas.

@teleportedbreadfor3days

14 күн бұрын

@@hashimrahman51 Garbage like the Acolyte can’t be mixed with that stuff. That’s one of the reasons why people who seem to have this distaste for morality exist with such strength these days

There are several so called fans who think just like that. How many times we see them saying that the Jedi were arrogant and deserved what they got, and the Empire was right in many things and bla bla bla. It's the edgy crowd who likes to subvert expectations.

@alexdeghost2729

14 күн бұрын

Exactly. The fans do have some blame to this.

@martinmp19

14 күн бұрын

The Jedi in the prequels were super arrogant though

@Doop3r

14 күн бұрын

They didn't deserve extinction but they were arrogant. Honestly, the one idea I hold over from when I cared about Star Wars was Yoda was a great example of a character who learned from mistakes. To me he was the only Jedi who both recognized the mistakes and arrogance that led the Jedi to their fall but also actually learn from it and change his philosophy, even slightly. Obi Wan didn't even learn that. However, that's all meaningless now with what Star Wars has become and a major reason I just abandoned it all. It's all just meaningless now.

@DeepDeepSpace

14 күн бұрын

@@martinmp19 how so? What did the Jedi wrong?

@mpnuorva

14 күн бұрын

Fans articulated what Legends was telling them. KotORs & TOR, TCW multimedia project, NJO, DOJ, all had a steady stream of Jedi-bashing, usually around the idea that the Jedi Way makes one vulnerable to the very things the films show it to be an antidote for. In KotORs it's why the Jedi skipped the Mandalorian Wars, ie a crucial plot point for the whole Legends canon.

Far too often people seem to think the "dark side" is a "side", like picking waffles over pancakes.... it is NOT. It is an obsession, an addiction, loving waffles is great but stabbing your neighbor for taking some off the shelf at the supermarket never leads towards or is acceptable behavior.

@thomassmart4088

13 күн бұрын

they turned it into twitter tribalism didnt they?

I always felt like the attachment is forbidden thing in the prequels was the Jedi's flaw. I feel like the entire reason Luke succeeded where Anakin failed is that when Yoda told Anakin attachment was forbidden, Anakin kept his attachment a secret and lived a lie, when Yoda told Luke that attachment was forbidden, Luke's reply was "I don't care, I'm going to save my friends."

@onyxrose4349

13 күн бұрын

Luke suffered for that choice and went on to agree that Yoda was correct. Attachment is not connection, it is not bonds, it's a refusal to give up such things. Luke, rather than trusting the Force and his friends, rushed into a situation that cost him his arm and nearly his life. And it was a situation where Leia and co would have escaped anyway. Him racing there only hurt him. Because he did it out of fear. Look at Obi-Wan. He calls Anakin his brother. They had an extremely strong bond. Yet that was fine. Why? Because Obi-Wan was capable of letting it go, should he need to. Anakin fell to the Dark Side specifically because he was unable to let go. Because the fear of losing what he was attached to, Padme and being a Jedi, was something he refused to let go. Attachment is toxic, it's possessive, it's greed. The Jedi are encouraged to love, to be compassionate, to feel and connect with people and life and nature. But they must also be able to let it go. To accept death.

@SuperSupersoda

13 күн бұрын

@@onyxrose4349 Anakin and Luke are not Obi-wan, they were both much older when they started training, and I believe one of the messages of the prequel trilogy is that the fall of the Jedi was due to their inflexibility. The Jedi knew, from day 1, that Anakin's mother was very important to him, you think it would have occurred to them to do something to help her. Also, Leia and Co. most DEFINITELY would not have escaped anyway, that just ignores the entire plot of Empire Strikes Back. Leia and Co. were specifically being held on Bespin as bait to lure Luke (that's why Vader tortured Han and didn't ask any questions, so that Luke would sense Han's pain and come). Leia and Co. only escaped because Luke arrived. When the thing you've set the trap for has fallen into your trap, you do not need the bait anymore, so Vader didn't care that Leia and Co. escaped. He went to confront Luke, if Luke wasn't there, Vader would have stopped Leia and Lando's escape attempt personally, because he still needed them for bait. If Luke hadn't come, you can bet Vader would not have allowed their escape. Vader even took the precaution of disabling the hyperdrive on the Falcon, and only R2 finding out about that and fixing it saved Leia and Luke. I understand why the Jedi forbid attachment and the fear that goes along with it, but Anakin and Luke had those things before they became Jedi. The damage was done. I don't see how isolating and distrusting Anakin helps you in any way at that point. The Jedi's distrust of Anakin led to his isolation which made it so much easier for Palpatine to turn him. That's not a great plan.

@lightpoint4426

13 күн бұрын

@@onyxrose4349 Yeah, the type of attachment that's forbidden is 'possessive beyond all reason' attachment. And Yoda knew that Luke would 1. get his ass kicked by Vader and 2. was in a very emotionally vulnerable place even if Vader never dropped the 'I'm your father' bomb. Luke heading off alone was an unwise decision, and he was VERY lucky he was rescued by Leia and Lando. But he learned from his mistakes.

@emberfist8347

12 күн бұрын

@@lightpoint4426 Not to mention Yoda knew they were in no real danger. Vader wasn't going to kill his bargaining chips as he would lose any reason to draw Luke to him.

Headland 100% thinks Grey Jedi can be a thing. She’s a casual tourist in SW.

@ciro_costa

14 күн бұрын

This is not what I got from the show though. I don't think they're portraying any good qualities in qimir.

@nathanroyster1324

13 күн бұрын

@@ciro_costa they're also not portraying any good qualities in the Jedi. They're attempting to blur the lines between the Sith and Jedi. It doesn't even make sense for the era the Jedi are in.

@ciro_costa

13 күн бұрын

@@nathanroyster1324 that's not true. The only Jedi that are out of line are the ones that were stationed on the witch's planet. And the green one is a bit sus. The others are very altruistic.

@nathanroyster1324

13 күн бұрын

@@ciro_costa what other jedi? You mean Jeki and Yorde? The entire show is about the jedi stationed on the witches planet. And it's pretty obvious they're setting up some type of massacre by the jedi and coverup by Venestra. One of the Jedi was so tramatized he took a vow of silence then committed suicide... lol. If you watched nothing SW but this show you would leave it thinking the Jedi are Altruistic?

The message of the prequels has become SO misunderstood. It's not that the Jedi way is bad. It's just that the prequel era Jedi had fallen from what they were supposed to be. They had lost their way. Qui-Gon was our glimpse of a true-to-the-light Jedi. That was the whole point of his character. To show the audience how the Jedi were supposed to be vs. what their current incarnation was in their order. While yes, Palpatine did espouse certain truths about the Jedi order, it was only because of their hypocrisy and fall from grace that his tricks were able to work. Just like in the Old Testament, Israel was God's chosen nation to bring the light to the world. But when they strayed and went into sin ams after other gods, God punished them and allowed them to taken into captivity and on several occasions, destroyed. The Force is like God in the Star Wars sense. The Jedi were supposed to be the ones who spread light throughout the galaxy. But because they had forsaken what it meant to be a true Jedi, the Force allowed Palpatine to creep in unbeknownst, and undermine and destroy them. Now we have actual creators of official Star Wars content telling us the Sith were misunderstood. This "hate the Jedi" mentality started with Rian Johnson. That's where this train first went off the tracks. Now it's sunk into a volcano and the remains are almost finished melting.

@icoss88

13 күн бұрын

I've been interpreting a lot of this show as a criticism of the jedi of the era, and I feel like we're seeing the beginnings of the Jedi's straying from their ideals. I don't think Qimir's criticism of them is supposed to be how the show is criticizing them, its the actions of the Jedi in the show that does it. Something happened with the witches that caused the Jedi to overstep there. Vernestra is constantly worried about the politics of what they're doing and never mentions following the force's guidance. I feel like she's going to try to cover this all up, presumably because she has a connection to Qimir and doesn't want the rest of the order/the senate to know what happened. Its setting up the Jedi's eventual downfall in the prequels. I read Qimir's critique as more of a skewed perspective because something clearly caused him to part ways with the order.

@kovie9162

13 күн бұрын

This isn't "hating" the Jedi. It's showing their flaws, some fatal. Like arrogance, blindness, rigidity, extreme idealism, denying their emotions, etc. Not the same things AT ALL. Sorry, but the purpose of fiction isn't to validate adolescent fantasies.

@gnc623

13 күн бұрын

@kovie9162 We already KNEW the Jedi had become flawed. We don't need more movies and shows telling us this. But this is more than just "showing flaws." This is a blurring of the lines between good and evil. Did you actually even watch this video? What adolescent fantasy? That there's such a thing as heroes or good and evil? My bad, I'll just discard centuries of universally understood truths for corporate swill.

@icoss88

13 күн бұрын

@@gnc623 What is blurring the lines for you here? The dialogue by the ex-jedi who by his own admission considers himself sith-adjacent? You don't think he might have a skewed view of the Jedi and that he's talking to Osha right in front of him and trying to manipulate her against the Jedi? Why do you think he's talking to the audience directly and trying to preach to them about the virtues of the sith?

Trying to figure out why Headland is intrigued by the Sith isn't all that hard. Having worked and had dealings with Hollywood in the past, firsthand that place is a metaphorical snake pit. Headland worked for the KING of the snakes. She's bent. This is the result, and if KK loved this, it makes Andor all that much more of a miracle.

This isn't a misunderstanding of Starwars. This is an accurate representation of the show makers IRL ideology and beliefs expressed in the form of fiction.

@AmandaFessler

13 күн бұрын

Pretty much. Wouldn't be surprised if a holonet comment somewhere would randomly read #DefundTheJedi lol

I don't comment a lot here but this time I have to say I believe you really hit the nail on the head about how these creators want the good guys to be evil and the bad guys to be "the poor misunderstood sort of good guys" because they (the creators) are incapable of good, or because they don't want to do the effort to be good. Or what if they know they are bad and are trying to make bad look good so they, who know themselves to be bad, can be considered good. That's a scary thought.

It's not that they misunderstand it. They are just bending everything to fit whatever they want to portray.

@Poptalkandaliens

14 күн бұрын

I agree, but I think there’s a good amount of misunderstanding built in. If one’s desire is to bend the franchise to their will, it’s difficult for me to buy that they fully understand it.

I think the problem is that some people don't see the Jedi as moral authorities. They see themselves as a superior moral authority, and the Jedi as 'problematic' pretenders to moral authority. Thus the Jedi must be torn down and reconfigured in the self-righteous person's image. People who are cognizant of their own darker selves, but with enough good in them to resist, crave ideals like the Jedi. We want to believe that a moral authority outside ourselves can exist, something we can aspire to, even though we know we will never reach it.

@kirkdarling4120

14 күн бұрын

Or that morality as a concept even exists. But the theme of The Acolyte has already been stated within the story: "It's not about good or evil, it's about power and who is allowed to use it." That's not just a throwaway line of one character. This was written by the real-life acolyte of a real-life lord of the Dark Side.

“Star Wars saved my life!” Sure, Leslye.

20 Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter. - Isaiah 5:20.

@monsieurcommissaire1628

13 күн бұрын

Amen. There's a lot of that these days. For a great many sadly misguided fools, darkness is their light.

The writers of the show have the weirdest logic. If being a Jedi means not being able to love, why is OSHA tempted by qimir. She left the Jedi order. She isn't bound by any of their rules or traditions. Why does qimir care at all about the Jedi? They had no idea he existed until he made mae attack them. If he wants freedom, he had it no one forced him to reveal himself. The part I really don't get is why the need to change the Jedi. If you want to love and feel emotions as you see fit. Don't be a Jedi, or don't write Jedi. The start wars universe is a big place just choose something else. It's like people who want to be a Christian but want to change all the tenants of the faith. Why?

I get so tired with these "deconstructions". The ones making them so rarely understand that you have to build something up in the process of tearing something else down. Otherwise, it's just mindless cynicism that masquerades as wisdom. It's just like TLJ: a movie that thinks it has something profound to say, but is far less intelligent than it thinks it is. Especially because criticizes plots and characters it believes are shallow without surface-level arguments and trite platitudes while replacing them with characters and actions actually are shallow because they exist solely to fit one moment of emotion without any concern for the context of the moment or implications on the setting. Yet when you point these issues out, they retreat into their shield of smugness where all these criticisms are invalid because they consider "the message" to be inherently self-validating without concern for if they even delivered what they intended coherently.

@disguisedcentennial835

13 күн бұрын

If you look up the actual meaning of deconstruction, it includes a rejection of objective truth lol. It’s pseud stuff

@Mouse_Metal

13 күн бұрын

Deconstruction is just another word for destruction.

@emberfist8347

12 күн бұрын

@@disguisedcentennial835 Except it isn't. For example, Watchmen deconstructed superheroes, but it didn't reject an objective truth and used some instead. For example, one element that is deconstructed is the idea of a rogues gallery. Real life prisons don't have people casually breaking out all the time particularly not with repeat offenders who tend to be few and far between. In Watchmen, this is shown as part of the reason the Crimebusters never got off the ground, their enemies remained behind bars so there was little use to have a team like them.

I just rewatched the Prison speech from Andor with Kino and it struck me how well written that scene is. You have Andy Serkis at his best, motivating people who are imprisoned to revolt. I felt more attached to him and those characters than anyone in the Acolyte. Because what these individuals and Disney Star Wars fans fail to realize is that the Jedi, Sith, the Force. It’s all dressing. The meat of any story is its characters. If they suck, why should anyone follow. It’s easy to forget with so many installments that Han, Luke and Leia were all wonderfully written characters. And yet Disney Star Wars seeks to coast off its name and brand. They don’t care about writing individuals with distinct personalities and clear cut motivations. They want validation through cardboard cutouts. It’s a shame that Andor was ignored by so many. Because really it was the series that could have been big if Disney Star Wars wasn’t so stupid. Seriously watch Andor.

@WhatsTheTakeaway

14 күн бұрын

That was a great scene. I like Lucians (or whatever his name is) "What have I sacrificed" monologue more, tho.

@timothychapman269

14 күн бұрын

Yes! Watch Andor. It is so good and actually an anomaly in the Disney Star Wars universe. Great writing, great acting and great cinematography. It is worth breaking your boycott of Disney. It's that good.

@oliverrosck996

14 күн бұрын

We need more Andor. Best thing since empire. Rouge One was really good though too but I probally have that on the same level as Return of the Jedi

@fredbecerra1608

14 күн бұрын

Serkis should have got a streaming Emmy for that speech! Academy of Motion Arts & Sciences ...On Program!

@Blisterdude123

14 күн бұрын

Having an astronomically more experienced, talented, passionate and competent writer and creator in Tony Gilroy made all the difference in the world.

Haven’t you noticed every villain in current times is a “sympathy for the devil” character

@Mouse_Metal

13 күн бұрын

Every her-o too.

It’s not them “misunderstanding” anything. It’s them being malicious.

Let's be honest, Headland's handling of the saga has been disgraceful, amateurish and shallow.

@achaudhari101

14 күн бұрын

Not really.

@rector0455

14 күн бұрын

@achaudhari101 Yes really. In a recent interview w/the Mary Sue, Headberg made it clear she didn't even know what the problem with Mundi being in this series was. This show is pathetic and so are the people defending it. I don't care what you wanna ship on your private Tumblr blog, Mr. Chaudri, but that should remain an extracurricular private activity of yours and not be shoveled into main Star Wars canon like this slop.

@achaudhari101

13 күн бұрын

@@rector0455 Him being there isn’t a problem since he doesn’t know who Qimir is let alone that a Sith killed all of those Jedi. Who the fuck cares about a dishrag site like Mary Sue anyway? You’re offended over the wrong thing right now. Also I don’t use Tumblr since I’m heterosexual but I’m also not going to stick to a narrative because someone else gets pissy for attention/clicks.

Headman is what I call an ‘anti-fan’, when it comes to Star Wars. She claims to be a fan while having little to no good things to say about Star Wars and/or what makes up the heart of Star Wars.

It's easier for evil to thrive if you dont believe it exists

@coletrain583

14 күн бұрын

My Mom always told the Devil dosen’t want people to know he’s real. So yeah, that sums it up. How do I know this? My Mom is a devote Christian, mainly secular, she dosen’t abide by the teachings of the Catholic, Baptist, Orthodox or Protestant side. Her mindset is more akin to the ones who were around during the time of Jesus. Needless to say, her reaction to the right wing evangelicals is pretty disappointing, feeling they are not preaching the true beliefs of Christianity, due to them just selling out to the MAGA movement and their promotion of White Nationalism. While we had issues in the past arguing over the religion, we ended up reconciling due to the crazy events regarding the direction of the United States and so far, it’s more important than ever we protect democracy.

Headland never was a fan and took the job to try to turn the franchise on its head, kinda like what Johnson tried to do with TLJ.

We live in a world (western world mostly) that, like it or not, glorifies evil and/or immoral things. So many of our shows and books these days are extremely adult themed, to the point of that I question the mental health of the people who write certain scenes. People claim its "good writing", but is it really?? Is reading about rape good literature? Does putting that in a show make it a good show? Or is the truth more simple? Regardless of your beliefs, there is a darkness that has gripped the western world and people have a sick fascination with watching or reading vile acts, and create shows that try to spin a good light on evil characters.

@coletrain583

14 күн бұрын

The MAGA movement in a nutshell.

@Schmidty1701

14 күн бұрын

@@coletrain583 I don't want to make this into a political thing because, but the other side isn't innocent either. I don't totally disagree with you, but both sides are to blame for the issues in America.

@TitusAndromadon

14 күн бұрын

Ah yes, the Maga movement has a ton of sway in Hollywood and traditional media. It's definitely their fault that sex work had become glorified. It's definitely the Maga movement who invented porn and glorifies it, it's the Maga movement that creates all the shows and movies without heroes and misunderstood villains. It's the Maga movement that wants to teach children about kink and gender identity. I'm not a part of the Maga movement but dude, do you hear yourself. Maga has its problems but you can't honestly believe that Maga has any sway whatsoever in media.

@coletrain583

13 күн бұрын

@@Schmidty1701 Still considering who their guy is. Better go to left on that, than to Armageddon.

@Historical-Stuff

13 күн бұрын

THANK YOU! I'm tired of people talking about how introducing darker themes into your stories makes one a better writer. It doesn't. If you need to rely on shock elements to keep your audience engaged, then you are a TERRIBLE writer.

I don’t have to tell you how disconnected and out of touch Kennedyfilm's team can be. Leslie Headland is one of the worst offender.

Can't convincingly write about very moral characters while personally having very little of it.

Thor- this is an incredible breakdown of the philosophy of Star Wars by George Lucas vs what Disney has tried to give us. Your point about "joy comes from giving" is spot on. We have been conditioned over the last several decades that life is about comfort and consumption (see every TV add ever). I'd also add that GL has talked about pleasure vs joy, pleasure spikes but diminishes quickly while joy is long lasting. Pleasure tends to be self-centered, joy tends to be self-giving. What are you thoughts on the message Disney is trying to preach through their most recent projects? Sounds like you see they are trying to aim the audience at pleasure and consumption.

Corruption.

@Rich_828

14 күн бұрын

Step aside old man 🤣

@Blisterdude123

14 күн бұрын

You're just part of the cover up, old man!

Weinstein's assistant misunderstanding good and evil? Color me shocked

There's literally a new Star Wars "fanbase" now. One that wants to tear down what came before it and make it into something it was never intended to be. And if you speak out against it, the pitch forks come out. It's sad what SW has become and is moving towards.

@rector0455

14 күн бұрын

They are the ~14% + their MegaCorp backers. Don't be intimidated or deceived. Speak.

It makes perfect sense in a way. It's the difference between people who are trained to understand an author or creators work from THE CREATOR's perspective, v.s. understanding that creator's work as a reflection of the power relations that makes up the author's existence, which is kind of how people with postmodern/critical theory backgrounds are taught to analyze or understand the work of others. If Headland sees herself as living in a patriarchal society, and sees Star Wars as popular because of and within the context of a patriarchal society, it makes sense that she would use her "work" to challenge, deconstruct or point out the contradictions within the Star Wars films or series in resistance to the patriarchal society that DOESN'T LET HER BE HER AUTHENTIC SELF. She's not criticizing Lucas - like all deconstructionist, the creator of the work is meaningless, the creator is just a proxy for society, the system, the structure etc - she is criticizing the society that she believed CREATED HIM AND MADE HIM A SUCCESS. “…there’s just no way that me being a queer woman is not going to be reflected in my work. I could try not to do it, but why would I? It just feels like a natural extension of what I do, I think that because storytelling, at its core, is always going to come down to either the personal or emotional through-line to your characters, your identity is important. And like I said, mine is just going to be in my work, whether I’m explicitly dealing with it or not, it’s always going to be there.” - Leslye Headland The reason why she completely misread it, is because she never tried to properly understand him and the world he was trying to CONSTRUCT. She picked and chose the parts of Lucas' story, that she was ALLOWED to pick, to make up her own story, which is what people like her always do.

This notion has actually been building for some time. Especially surrounding the Jedi taking in children at a young age. I always thought of it as an entertaining "what if?" king of idea along the lines of Darth Jar Jar. A fun thought but shouldn't be explored with any real seriousness because it would be ridiculous. I always felt that the prequels showed that the Jedi weren't perfect but were better than what the Sith offered. Would you rather travel in a leaky boat or try to swim on your own in the open ocean?

A Villain sees themself as the hero of their story. I truly believe that Headland and her "writers" think they are very heroic.

I suppose it is technically a story from the Sith's point of view. Misunderstanding the Jedi, trying to paint them as weak, ineffective and corrupt while the Sith are supposedly better. It could be a fun story if there was the self awareness and turns out the whole thing is told by a Sith Lord in an attempt to make the Jedi look stupid.

The woman who was the right hand of arguably one of the most heinous people in Hollywood, known for, to quote Thor, “taking freedoms from others” has absolutely no right to make a show making bad guys look good. Making someone who wants freedom to hurt others look like someone we should root for. It’s appalling.

@Mouse_Metal

13 күн бұрын

The right hand of one of the most heinous people became the right hand for a reason. Of course she wants to make the bad guys look good.

I noticed this is actually a trend going outside of Star Wars. As in we have to have flawed heroes and misunderstood villains.

Headland is essentially talking about herself when she talks about a lack of oversight.

Leslye Headland is just trying to make Star Wars into a new age Twilight lol.

@CAPT6875

13 күн бұрын

I just puked in my mouth a little 😮‍💨

@monicaaboites5053

13 күн бұрын

@@dalej3981 at least Twilight didn’t lie to you saying that It was a feminist thing, unlike this piece of garbage and TLJ..

So Rotten Tomatoes removed the audience score now? 😂

@Pelicanzzz

14 күн бұрын

That's pathetic

@ian-flanagan

14 күн бұрын

I still see it

@bestlexluthor7596

14 күн бұрын

@@ian-flanagan sh I think it was all over a lot of things. I jumped the gun on that 👍🏻

Well said Thor. It's the aim of evil to corrupt good ALWAYS! One way it's done is when evil subtly disguises itself as good.

Is he just a Jedi dressing as a Sith, going around, vigilante and wiping out all the corrupt jedi, and doing so in costume just to scare tf outta them.. ..hes not Sith, hes a Jedi taking the piss out the jedi while taking out the trash.. lmaoo

I can get behind showing the jedi flawed or maybe not as perfect as they would like to be, but to frame it as they are just as bad if not worse than the sith is a level of stupid I will never understand.

Star Wars has lost its moral compass.

I think I know where Headland is coming from, at least to a point. Imagine you were raised in a religious family but you didn’t agree with everything the religion taught/says, and then one day you hit a breaking point where you are officially done with it. You stop believing in god or you come out as gay and suddenly that family or community turns against you. The priest or preacher who your family says represents good in the world says you’re evil or at least something about you is wrong. You may then point to stories of religious leaders doing evil deeds as a way to defend yourself to your family. I think Headland is trying to use the Jedi as a metaphor for flawed people who have been put on pedestals and stand in judgment of others. However, this fails on multiple levels. For starters, we know the Force is real in the Star Wars universe, there’s no faith required. Second, the only thing we know that is forbidden by the Jedi religion that isn’t common sense (ie don’t murder) is using the Dark Side, which she appears to be trying to defend to make the metaphor work. However, to make that work, you have to change the established rules of this fictional universe and invalidate much of what is already written.

@jibril2473

14 күн бұрын

That’s why people keep saying this series is a meta documentary of her life.

@lightpoint4426

13 күн бұрын

'However, to make that work, you have to change the established rules of this fictional universe and invalidate much of what is already written.' I think they've been slowwwwwly trying to do it (starting in TLJ), but there's only so far they can go without a full retcon of How The Force Works. I don't think they have the 'nads to do that yet. But they might.

For the most part, people who don’t understand Star Wars have been the ones making Star Wars since Disney purchased the franchise. It used to make me upset but I’ve gotten over it.

She sees the Jedi as the Patriarchy. She has said so.

@coletrain583

14 күн бұрын

Yet, she ends up leading the fans to believe Osha and Qimir might become a thing. Huh? “Gayest” Star Wars story? Sounds like it turned out to be an accidental lie.

People forget Star Wars, originally, is a fairytale. Its black and white on purpose

@Deuteromis

14 күн бұрын

That was the Originals, the Prequels painted everything as gray, but at the sametime you still could see the black and white as well. Now? It's all gray, and it's not just with Star Wars. It's like now you have to have flawed heroes and misunderstood villains. I think this stems from like how now they are trying to stop children from looking up to these unattainable goals or people they can never be.

@ellicel

14 күн бұрын

And black and white doesn't mean simple. There's plenty of room for nuance and complex situations. Not to mention how desperately the world needs to be reminded that some things (honesty, integrity, kindness, selflessness, etc.) are ideals we should always pursue. There's plenty of anti-hero fare. But the world also needs regular heroes. Look at how well Ted Lasso did, just because we all desperately needed to see kindness on screen for once.

@retagainez

13 күн бұрын

@@Deuteromis Prequels are a lot more black and white than you make it out to be. The republic, bureaucracy, and political corruption is arguably "gray," but surely not the Jedi or Sith. Those are most certainly black and white. I can't help but disagree since the movies revolve around the jedi in the plot of all the films.

@Jeroogalo

13 күн бұрын

@@Deuteromis I think people got so caught up in where the Jedi failed that they miss that they are still the good guys. The Sith are the evil ones. The Jedi just got distracted basically and just enough on the wrong track after a thousand years of not having to deal with the Sith that evil was able to slip in and nearly destroy them. But they're still representative of the good guys here, it's just they need to remain vigilant

@Jeroogalo

13 күн бұрын

@@ellicel plus Star Wars has bounty hunters and smugglers and Mandalorians and stories with all those guys where you can get nuances of gray. But Jedi and Sith stories are overall pretty black and white. It's supposed to be simple but meaningful. Star Wars is for all who enjoy it, but it's "for" kids, meaning that George directly made it to help give them guiding lessons on the right paths to go on as they grow up. They're clouding up the story so much now that the messages are getting confusing. Also I'm tired of Jedi failure stories, I want to see them at some point in their timeline being ACTUAL Jedi

Hey Thor, I love these conversations and videos. There seem to be more and more Star Wars content seemingly made by people that don’t get it or like it. Or make it to influence our perspective on the galaxy, to be better than anything that came before, etcetera. I'm happy when stories -- like the Jedi games --seem to not change or address bigger themes directly, or make fan debates an in universe concept. Fallen Order sticks with me, not bcoz it validated, for example, my thoughts on the Force, but bcoz it pulled me out of a grim mindset, and could just make me smile. My initial thoughts were to see how it justifies my view on the galaxy, but it was depicting a journey of healing, above all else. It's about *Cal’s* trials, decisions, dreams, connections, and growth above all else. What he feels and goes thru is likely relatable to the young people that need to see an example of how to heal -- or be redeemed -- . What makes him unique (or relatable) is what makes his journey to healing feel like we’re with him. And I could be here all day gushing about all the layers of the story and characters in the games. I enjoy that he isn't explicitly meant to validate or defy the Jedi, he is just a good guy. Your thoughts?

It’s sad because this show had the potential to be extremely interesting - we’ve had Gray Jedi in Legends before and more sympathetic Sith. If the writing was MUCH MUCH better, we’d have a more nuanced way of viewing BOTH the Jedi and the Sith like in Legends. This show could actually be good but Headland has essentially still made the Sith one dimensional whilst making the Jedi council seem dumb and misinformed, whilst also making Ki-Adi Mundi and the Jedi of the prequel trilogy seem POINTLESS.

There is no misunderstanding. The goal is to destroy Star Wars, from within. The goal has ALWAYS been to destroy Star Wars. Twenty "accidents" don't just happen in a row, let alone a hundred.

The Jedi are flawed, but flawed good is always preferable to evil(the sith).

1:50 Headland looks like a roblox character. That's a very square face.

@CantankerousDave

14 күн бұрын

And it radiates smug condescension.

@theprodigalknight7156

14 күн бұрын

Every fiber of my being shouts a collective OOF whenever I see her face.

@MobbJacket88

14 күн бұрын

Perfect comparison

@hashimrahman51

14 күн бұрын

Shovel face. I’m not calling her that, but that’s the term. 😂

@clonecamando9

14 күн бұрын

Im not one to make fun of ones appearance but her choice in glasses doesnt help. She looks like shes got gigantic bags under her eyes with them...

I'd like to see a Generation Alan vs Thor debate. Would be fun. Different takes, both equally valid I think.

I think the problem is in the way they execute the important plot points. They dont for example show the slow transition of Mae to a doubter but just show a scene where she suddenly changes her mind. Then in the next episode Mae finally sees Osha and then just force pushes her when they cant come into an agreement. What on earth happened to Maes decision to turn herself in the previous episode? Then Mae suddenly reverts back to her plot to kill all the jedi masters involved in the childhood based traumatic event but for some reason she again changes her mind when she is on the ship. Meanwhile Osha is lured to the dark side in the span of one day. I think there should have been some kind of a time jump and maybe Osha could have been injured so badly that she couldnt have left the water planet even if she would have wanted to leave it. My ming just boggles how a person who co-write russian doll makes a series with so many amateur feeling plot points. She says that she is a Star Wars fan but it feels like she and the other writers maybe arent that good at writing screenplays for science fiction based tv series.

Thank you, Thor! You nailed it and I appreciate your clear perspective and way of sharing the information.

🎶 Without evil there can be no good so it must be good to be evil sometiiiiiimes 🎵

@stu729

14 күн бұрын

It's such an incredible misunderstanding and misapplication of the idea that to be able to appreciate and make the distinction between good times and bad times, you must experience the bad times. Sure, knowing the bad times makes the good times all the better, and you can't appreciate the good times as well if you haven't seen the bad times, but that doesn't mean you should CAUSE the bad times for yourself or others!

@vetarlittorf1807

14 күн бұрын

@@stu729 It's a South Park reference.

@stu729

14 күн бұрын

@@vetarlittorf1807 Ah. That's a woosh on my part.

@OgreJoe

13 күн бұрын

Great Movie!

Freedom is worthless without rules , boundaries and discipline. Much like art. The beauty of art can truly be seen when it has rules or parameters. Music, painting, filmmaking, writing etc.

Personally, as a Christian, it’s key to my understanding of the world that of course, all humans are sinful and selfish, we all have darkness. But that doesn’t mean that realizing this leads into saying, “ok now murder and oppression are good.” Leslye isn’t saying “we all fall short of goodness, we all have moments of evil,” her argument is less complex. She’s saying “there is no such thing as good and evil.” But anyone in their right mind would tell you that you can realize your flaws exist, and realize your evil, without saying “evil = good.” When qimir asked sol “what have you done with your darkness,” there was a hint of an argument there. that we’re all imperfect, that we all have darkness, is important to combatting pride, and it should be a relief to realize we are loved for who we are, that all humans have inherent value, not our failure to perform. That’s different from what qimir says though. He takes the darkness within humanity and embraces it rather than merely acknowledging it. Leslye should read plagueis if she wants to sound competent when talking about the sith.

Qimir is just a toddler that thinks he is the center of the universe. He wants what he wants, with no concern for anyone else. Me, me, me… contrasted with the Jedi, who live a life of service to others. But Headlamp has no morals and has no respect for anyone else either. So he is simply a reflection of her beliefs.

I see a lot of people hating on the idea of deconstructing or criticizing/tearing down the Jedi. But I think the "idea" isn't bad its just absolutely horrendous execution. You can see past examples such as KOTOR, KOTOR II, and parts of SWTOR that do a lot to criticize the Jedi or portray them in a different light and its done a whole lot better. Leslye Headland has claimed that she was inspired by KOTOR II and specifically the character of Kreia and that is a bold fucking claim and so far the Acolyte is lightyears apart from anything resembling the genius of KOTOR and specifically Obsidian writing.

Nothing Disney makes is canonical anyway.

It's not that she misunderstands SW. She's making an allegory. Remember she talked about wanting to make a story she'd have loved to see as a young non straight person. In her version the jedi are tradition and the misunderstood sith, who just was t to be free, are her community. They tell their agendas in interviews and people still get confused as to why they structure the stories the way they do.

Im surprised You are surprised

Think you’re missing the point. Everything you said about the Jedi is valid and how they should be but the fact is a lot of them are no longer like that. The order has lost its way and that’s why it falls, the ideals they should strive to uphold have become corrupted. They’ve become complacent, they believe there is no real threat against them. Some even believe they are superior to everyone else. There’s still many Jedi who keep to the ideals though, like Sol and Qui-Gon, but as a whole they are a shadow of what they once were.

The fact that she has such a poor understanding of both the English language and theming that she thinks Vader being "seduced" by the dark side has a sexual meaning is hilarious.

@emberfist8347

12 күн бұрын

Well to be fair, the lore has used the word groomed to described what Palpatine did to Anakin and it isn't too far off.

Because she hates Star Wars...along with everyone else at disney.

People unmoored from principles will always make unprincipled and shallow art. Headland has turned this into a therpay session where the sister who lived by the rules learns that she was wrong, and that the sith are the real progressives, having sexual freedom and hedonistic happiness

The irony is that Lucas listened to jar jar iger and sold his baby to palpamickey even though he wrote a story warning people about doing just that

Hey Thor, I find the concept of exploring the flaws of something like the Jedi Order or that of individuals like Jedi inherently fascinating from a story perspective. It doesn't make them evil or wrong, just more human and relatable. To be a Jedi would involve a lot of responsibilities and expectations that wouldn't be easy to live up to, but seeing a character struggle and succeed in following that path is admirable and makes for a good story. I also think Jedi antagonists are intriguing to consider, not as beings of evil, but as those that want to be good, or consider themselves good, but do bad things from a limitless number of well-intentioned or conceited reasons. "Lawful-Good" antagonists are often more interesting than more evil-aligned ones for the juicy dilemas of figuring out what is truly the best moral decision and what aspects of being part of the "good side" are the actual good aspects rather than those that have been rusted by stagnation, conceit, or dogma. It opens a portal of moral introspection that an evil-aligned antagonist cannot. It adds a sense of struggle for a character not just to do the right thing, but also to consider what the right thing is and to define what is good and right through the forge of turmoil and strife. I wish these sort of conflicts would be explored more, as I see it as problematic in the world today of people considering themselves good and right based on what groups they're a part of rather than their own actions and behavior. That's my ramble though, and I'd be interested in your thoughts. That all said, I don't feel the Acolyte really does any of this, or at the very least it doesn't do it at all very well, and lost me about halfway through episode 4.

It's not a "misunderstanding," it's a deliberate attempt to break and ruin things that are loved by people that the showrunners don't like. This show is an act of vandalism, plain and simple.

Damn, lots of people drinking that dogmatic koolaid the Jedi brewed here… the Jedi are secular and flawed, it’s the whole reason the Sith were able to exploit them in the prequel trilogy, the Jedi had their heads so far up their butts they couldn’t see past the shroud of the darkside until it was far too late. Sure the Jedi may have at one point been enlightened but they fell from that grace. They became flawed and that was first revealed in the prequels. This show just extends that idea. Everyone here seems to forget that George Lucas was not an institutionalist, in fact he was against such a thing. The Sith and Jedi represented two flawed ideologies that have clashed for thousands of years. The far more enlightened individuals like Qui Gon and Asoka clashed with Jedi ideology, despite Qui Gon’s aptitude, he wouldn’t join the Jedi Council, and Asoka left the order altogether.

@MarioPerez-ng9it

12 күн бұрын

Secular? Agree with all other points though.

@emberfist8347

12 күн бұрын

Qui-Gon was the kind of arrogant person who Yoda was talking about.

Wow, Harvey's personal assistant sides with the dark side....go figure.

the person that actually making star wars misunderstood is george lucas himself. He is not a great writer. His success is only star wars 4 and indiana jones 1 (thanks to editing, music, special effects). After that he fell to his big ego. In his prequel, he is trying to send a good message by fail miserably by making darth vader yell like a puss. In star wars 4, everyone are working hard, while in prequel, the actors just walking around.

@wisehippo3072

13 күн бұрын

Ever heard of the empire strikes back? You should look into it. And before you say lucas didn't direct it: he didn't direct indiana jones either but you still mentioned it.

Title - because they never understood it to begin with.

The worst part is the show doesn't actually criticize the jedi and their philosophy. There is no exploration of their beliefs and how that might lead to bad outcomes. It's just "Jedi evil and do bad thing!"

@TaraCicora

14 күн бұрын

Exactly it just makes them look incompentant.

@falxblade1352

14 күн бұрын

This show pretends to do a lot from what I've seen. It pretends to be a mystery. It pretends to be morally grey. It pretends to criticize the jedi. It pretends to show a different culture around the force. It even pretended to have space dialects. It is just a massive game of pretend, and far more than a piece of entertainment should be.

Evil is what happens when a person demands freedom from responsibility. A person can pretty much do whatever they want. However, any action will have a consequence, good or bad. But to demand you can do what you will but have no consequences is the ultimate in narcissism and self-indulgence.

Sally Jessie Rapheal wants her glasses back

Ravvys was more of an anti-villain(hero?) but he even pointed out that if you do not serve some kind of code then all you are is self serving. What a great line. Made me realize why being involved in my community when I was younger was so much better for me. I didn't have to go full Jedi code but tight nit communities are way harder to destroy.

She doesn’t care about Star Wars and I would say she came in with an agenda to destroy the franchise

@achaudhari101

14 күн бұрын

Not likely.

There's an actual IRL human being at IGN who just wrote an article yesterday seriously defending Quimir's POV, saying in so many words "yes, he should be free to do whatever he wants with the Force", right after he has killed over a dozen people, INCLUDING A CHILD, WHICH HE REFERS TO AS "IT" IN THE MOST SOCIOPATHIC WAY YOU CAN IMAGINE! It's one the most insane pieces of writing I've ever read. Are these people writing these articles posting from a parallel universe or something, because jeez, I don't want to be on the same plane of reality as people like that.

@rector0455

14 күн бұрын

These people are adherents of the hammer and sickle ideology. They venerate some of the most deplorable humans who ever walked the Earth, and would in a heartbeat subject you, your family, your kids, your friends and everyone you know to the same exact treatment without a second thought.

@rector0455

14 күн бұрын

These people are adherents of the hammer & sickle ideology. They venerate some of the most deplorable humans who ever walked the Earth, and would in a heartbeat subject you, your family, your kids, your friends and everyone you know to the same exact treatment without a second thought.

@rector0455

14 күн бұрын

Kommu_nists venerate some of the most deplorable humans to ever walk the Earth, are you really surprised the do the same in the media/propaganda they push?

@rector0455

14 күн бұрын

Kommu-nistas venerate some of the most deplorable humans to ever walk the Earth, are you really surprised the do the same in the media/propaganda they push?

@rector0455

14 күн бұрын

Kommu-nist@s venerate some of the most deplorable humans to ever walk the Earth, are you really surprised the do the same in the media/propaganda they push?

1:42 How can you wear a hat with these horns? I mean if it's cold and windy... Does the hat have holes like the hats Bugs Dunny used to wear?

That last point is so true. Rejecting true goodness to feel better about yourself is a problem. Not regretting your transgressions is the first step to the dark side. If you feel no need to better yourself for the sake of others and refuse to feel bad because you are too weak to accept self-criticism and use it constructively, you open the door to evil and narcissicism that will consume you. The Jedi acknowledge that there is no true self as all things are bound to the force. They see no seperation between them and the world around them and thus are keenly attuned to the reality that their actions can have deep and lasting consequences. As a result, the Jedi are restrained and try to act with only careful consideration. The Sith however see the force as a resource to exploit. The Sith see themselves as Gods who alone possess the force, channeling it for selfish purposes. They are concerned with what the force can do for them whereas Jedi are concerned with serving the force.