No need to ignore the praetors from the starter set. The forge world ones are much more fitting in style, but these ornate MKVI bodies are great for conversions in other hq roles. A good arm swap and a fitting helm and the Axe praetor is a great chaplain or diabolist.

@azir64

2 жыл бұрын

True, you can even find some bits and pieces on your 40K sprues

@walterburdzy5408

2 жыл бұрын

@@azir64 This is one of the best armies to use classic chaos space marine parts as well. The overly corrupted shoulders, arms, and helmets of the base csm and terminator kit go great here. The dark apostle or master of possession would both make a fine diabolist model themselves too.

@blackbriargaming5483

2 жыл бұрын

SO true! I was looking at it from tight list construction but you're definitely not wrong. Will consider extra HQs in future 😊

@mrevilboj

2 жыл бұрын

@@walterburdzy5408 I really like the idea of Diabolists but I feel like they are just not very good? Am I missing something?

I'm bored, so my 2 cents incoming. (or $5 cuz damn i typed a lot) Praetors: Now, Word Bearers do have some seriously good characters, but you're just completely wrong here about ignoring WB Praetors. Word Bearer Praetors are amazing. For Hulk Smashing with him, toss him a Paragon Blade, Burning Lore, and Enslaved By Darkness and you're running around with a S7 Praetor. Say good bye to all those pesky dreads, or... basically anything. Iconoclast is fantastic for running with those 20 man units of Despoilers or Assault Squads. With Iconoclasts, your despoiler sgt can pretty easily get up to 6 attacks on the charge with his tainted sword (just get those pinning checks with the warpfire). Unswerving Devotion is cool. It's good. It's boring. lol. I know Despoilers aren't super good, but 5 warpfire pistols allow for the potential for a TON of output. I've been running a unit of 20 with Dark Channeling, Tainted Sword, 4 power axes, 5 warpfire pistols, and a vexilla. The pistols will benefit from fear for the pinning, giving you an extra chance to get that off (though still meh overall). Would it be better as an assault squad? Maybe, but use your advanced reaction on them for that one turn they need it, and you're doing swell. It's also possible to toss them into a kharybdis or spartan (lots of points, but definitely still fun). Slapping Zardu's buff on them makes it kinda super hilarious, too, at S5 that just keeps going up with sacrifices. Now, there's also the Praetor option with Iconoclast here, then toss a chaplain in with them and this gets ridiculous. It's far better than it has any right to be. I played Last of the Serrated Suns in 1.0 and I've been playing it in 2.0, and it's honestly meh, and always has been. The other Rite of War is WAY better. One of the biggest issues here is slotting the line units in while still having enough GV to make it worth it. Another major issue is intercept (or whatever it's called this edition, I'm currently blanking on the name). The fact that you must instantly deploy all of your things, makes it just so problematic. The heavy squads are going to blow your deep striking units away. NEVER give your GV a power axe. Never give ANYONE a power axe unless it's in a bigger unit, and especially not characters. They're trash this edition. Give the GV a power fist for that beautiful strength 10 fisting that even the Salamander player will be scared of. Argel Tal is Bulky (3), making him absolutely trash for this Rite of War, cuz no dreadclaws. Occasionally, running this, I'll toss him, 9 GV, and a chaplain into a kharybdis for maximum death star, and it does the absolute murders. On foot, Argel Tal can't use his wings in the GV unit, which is just dumb. Attaching to an assault unit removes his Warlord Trait, so what's the point? I like him in a Big Daddy Pod for the lulz but a lot of the time I'll just leave him at home and run a standard Praetor with Enslaved by Darkness. The Dark Brethren: This is the obvious choice for WB. Unless you REALLY want to do Serrated Suns (which I do sometimes) this is the RoW to take. There's no other option. It's just too good, and it's thematic af. You pretty much nailed a lot of it. (Except you said missile launchers. Don't take those. They're trash). If you don't deal damage to the sacrifice unit, you're already going to lose, so getting a random perils isn't that big of a deal. But to emphasis your points. No tanks. Absolutely no tanks. 100% accurate. Big ass 20 man squads, 100% agree. Lorgar? eh... Not most of the time. Sure, I get it. You wanna play your Primarch sometimes. I'm not super worried. Apothecaries are absolutely a toss up. Maybe? Honestly, my local meta runs a lot of snipers, so I tend to not, but it could still be worth it. Your comment on not giving them Dark Channeling is SO wrong. I honestly cannot think of a time where it's not worth taking Dark Channeling on at least your 3 big units, but then I also rarely take Lorgar, so it's far better. But the fear with the warpfire really comes in handy a whole lot more than you'd expect with the despoilers. If you're wanting missile launchers, then you take warpfire cannons 100% of the time instead. I cannot stress this enough. Don't ever ever take ML in Word Bearers, and I can't even think of a legion that would take them at all, if i'm being honest. Lascannons are amazing, so yes to this. Warpfire blasters are dope af. Yes. 100% yes. Zardu is my personal favorite for his buffs on the Three Big Units (TM). Erebus is fine, but if you want the daemons, I'd be more tempted to take the Esoterist. It's the literal exact same ability and then you don't have to take Erebus (Yes, even WB players hate him). Also his rules just kinda suck for his points. So with the Esoterist, you can take a better HQ. Kor Pharon is bad, but god damn do I love him. The pinning, as you said, is stronk, especially coupled with Despoilers. Threatening Entreaties is BAAAAD. Never use it. -1 WS to your unit will mean you lose combat 100% of the time. Do. Not. Use. It's a trap. Not to mention fearless is also a trap. Mostly unnecessary in WB, especially when using Dark Channeling. While his WL trait is super super good, putting him either with Lorgar, or as not the Warlord is hilarious. Overall, he's bad, but fun. Lordar, Zardu, Argel Tal (only with GV), or a Praetor are the only real options. I typically run Zardu or a Praetor. After this it depends on my list. Chaplain is common. It's fluffy and good. Diabolist is fun, but not required anymore, freeing up that slot for something else. I've ran either a moritat with the Ashen Circle or an Armistos with the heavies usually. Harold is like 99% wasted in WB, but making a GV unit like when you don't have Argel Tal can be ok. Praevian was cool AF in last edition cuz you could give your robuts Dark Channeling. Now you can't. My Praevian model is sad. Primus medicae is eh, but obviously not terrible. I'd rather do the murders with smashy characters. I always take either character or Praetor in over 1k (at 1k i don't). Then basically always a Chaplain. My top picks for the 3rd slot are Diabolist, Moritat, or Armistos, or honestly sometimes, though rarely, none. The advanced reaction is amazing. It's fantastic with 20 man units. Honestly hilarious to just NOPE when someone blasts you. I'm disappointed that you didn't really touch on the Ashen Circle. DO NOT SLEEP ON THESE! They're fucking incredible. They will absolutely obliterate anything they look at. S4 AP4 Torrent (6") pinning flamers is nothing to scoff at (especially when you corrupt them for that Fear (1) to increase the pinning chance). Then S5 Hammer of Wrath (2). S5 AP3 Shred in close combat. They're winning combat, the fear makes it easier for them to get a chance to finish murdering with their Crusader. Maybe toss a sacrifice buff onto them for the S6 to wound on 2s. These dudes are INSANE. You don't even need to get all 10 into combat. I frequently do just fine with them even after they're down to half strength. They're worth every single penny and I don't leave home without them regardless of the points level I'm playing (unless I'm doing Serrated Suns). How I'm running: I've played several different lists. My Serrated Suns has: Double fist warpfire blaster dread in pod. Kharybdis with 9 GV, Argel tal, and a chaplain. 2 or so tacs in pods, 1 warpfire blaster support in pod (usually with dark channeling for better chance of pinning). Sometimes I run 2x 5 man GV in dreadclaws with a praetor and chaplain in one of them. I fill out the list from there, and have done a few different things, such as extra warpfire, more GV in a dreadclaw, a diabolist somewhere, some heavies of some variety. It all just depends on what I'm feeling that day. My Dark Brethren list has 2 despoilers and an assault squad, both at 20, tainted swords, power axes, warpfire pistols. All dark channeling and usually with apothecaries (i go back and forth on these). The assault squad tends to have a praetor with Iconoclast and a chaplain for extra murder. 10 man warpfire blaster support, cuz duh. Then heavy I actually do what you suggested. Lascannon and Warpfire Cannons, both a 10 man. Then after that I fill out points. Sometimes I run Zardu and use his buff to buff the 3 20 man units, cuz that's just hilarious. Well shit, that was a long post, and no one's gunna read it. oh well. What can I saw, i'm totally enthralled by HH 2.0 :D

@blackbriargaming5483

Жыл бұрын

Love your enthusiasm! Did I not mention the Ashen Circle?! Maybe I didn't give them enough time. I agree! I think they're really good!!! And love the narrative on them if nothing else. And good advice on Warpfire Cannons! I've been re-educated on those since by someone else as well. Lol.

@Sothas

Жыл бұрын

@@blackbriargaming5483 I could have totally missed you talking about the Ashen Circle. My ADHD makes me zone out sometimes. Lol. Overall, dig the video. Definitely better than a lot of videos I've seen about the WB so far. After a lot of my own trial and error, I'm finally poking around the interwebs to see what other people have to say. I haven't found anything going super deep into them, yet. Mostly overviews like yours, which is cool. No hate. Just trying to find some in depth tactica lol. I have to say, there are a large number of people sleeping on Ashen Circle (not that you are specifically), it seems. 20 points for a jump pack, crusader, stubborn, better HoW, S5 AP3 shred, torrent pinning flamers, 2 attacks, and melta bombs? So much packed into these guys. They're easily my new favorite unit.

Really helpful this as I’ve just ordered dice, transfers & special weapons upgrades for word bearers. Plan on building serrated sun 1st but then the dark brethren as at some point I’d definitely like to add some ruinstorm daemons when their book drops. I thought if I’m going to be a heretic I might as well be the real bad guy of the HH 😈.

@blackbriargaming5483

2 жыл бұрын

Great choices all round!

I'm loving these videos! They're really helpful to understanding Legions I may see on the field. I'm doing Emperor's Children myself though I'm struggling to come up with a list for them at 1000 points so I can learn the game. Anyone got some starter tips? Main issue I'm having is probably spending too much on my tacticals. 175 points for a surgical augment, Chainswords and a Phoenix Rapier.

@blackbriargaming5483

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks! Yeah at the lower points level it's all about boys over toys 😋

Great! Yourself and The Outer Circle are some of the best when it comes to into about HH in my eyes 😁 very hard to find alot of stuff on Word Bearers.

@blackbriargaming5483

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks! ToC has been around for YEARS. I know the lads from tourney days. We'll have to do a grudge match at some stage!

@yagsipcc287

2 жыл бұрын

@@blackbriargaming5483 ha sweet! Yeah I've been watching him for around 3 years now myself. I'm super into HH just how the games are played the style of everything and how people treat it as a historical game etc... Beforehand it was just so expensive and of course many of the black books were out of print so even if I was able to you know ha

Oh boy, it's been 3 days, do we get the SoH today?! Been waiting on that one, hah! Thanks for these videos, they help a lot.

@blackbriargaming5483

2 жыл бұрын

I've got good news and bad news... Working on a vid! But it's not SoH :( But I promise I'll get them out this week!

@ciarankelly7154

2 жыл бұрын

@@blackbriargaming5483 Waiting desperately for that video lol. Been checking everyday. Can't wait!

@blackbriargaming5483

2 жыл бұрын

@@ciarankelly7154 ha ha, love the enthusiasm! The family (including myself) has the flu this week which has slowed me down. But I'm hoping to get it written up today and recorded tomorrow 😁

I love Argel Tal from books and as a really beautiful and fun mini to paint. But his rules are kinda awkward. If he joins gal Vorbak he can't fly. If he joins a corrupted assault squad he doesn't get value from his warlord trait. He's the commander of the serrated suns, but if he uses that rite of war you can't fit him into a dreadclaw drop pod with gal Vorbak because he's bulky(3).

@viktor2563

2 жыл бұрын

I agree, it's cringe situation. GW, thank you for good rules

@stevepickford3004

2 жыл бұрын

Plus the model doesn't include either of his trademark weapons. Why do a special character and not include what makes him special? Most of the heresy characters are epic fails in both fluff and rules. The choices are inexplicable

@blackbriargaming5483

2 жыл бұрын

Yeeaah. You definitely have to close your rules optimisation eyes sometimes to enjoy the narrative... 🙄

I'm taking the 40k CSM kit and using them with bits to mark out corrupt units. 1st up some corrupt despoliers

Nice video. Keep it up 🙂.

@blackbriargaming5483

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks! Will do 😁

Please do World Eaters next. Great Video as always 👍

@Deus888

2 жыл бұрын

He's covering the legions in the reversed order.

@blackbriargaming5483

2 жыл бұрын

But not too long to go!

Honestly i think ashen circle are very underated, they cause pinning, demolish normal armour 3 marines, can deepstrike and charge now and are extremely cheap. Would love a rite of war that makes them troops

@blackbriargaming5483

2 жыл бұрын

I think so too! They offer a lot for not that much more than assault marines.

Cataphractii still cannot run this edition because they have the "Heavy" sub type. Units with the Heavy sub type cannot run (rule book page 197)

Very helpful video, thank you! I'm thinking about there is only a Gal Vorbak unit that Argel Tal join into can get the Line, is it necessary to use the RoW and change all the Gal Vorbak unit into troop?or we should left them in EL and take more troops?How about take a 10 men Gal Vorbak unit with Argel Tal?Is it harmful in moral test or blast?

Once we do get the Demon rules will you be making a video discussing how they might work with a Space Marine force? cause I want a Word Bearer and Demon force as that just sounds cool

@blackbriargaming5483

2 жыл бұрын

You betya! Well. Eventually anyway 😅

Working on the big new box and some gal Vorbak right now.. But very tempted to build an Erebus list and convert a esoterist on outrider bike for turn 1 greater demon charge shenanigans

@blackbriargaming5483

2 жыл бұрын

Ha ha. Love it!

Please update the video and all future videos to include cost of models and availability. Gal Vorbak are $100 usd for 5 models! Most of the good stuff for the entire range has been out of stock for months.

@yagsipcc287

Жыл бұрын

If you want to use them you can easily just do some simple conversation work. The new possesed models are tbh amazing for this you get 5 in it, just remove some of the more 40k stuff from them, maybe add guns to them and meld it into the model with green stuff or milliput (as they are stuck to them but don't have to of course) also if you have a 3d printer there are many great options as well. I am going about it with my printer.

Maybe a video about how 30K and 40K differ rule/game play wise would be cool. It would help me any way, the idea i get is 30k is more tactical and more balanced than 40k which i think will always suffer from the flavor of the month unbalance from having so many unique factions. Tanks having armor values is super appealing and i really miss that from 40k.

@blackbriargaming5483

2 жыл бұрын

I've been thinking about what this video looks like but I'm also wary of pitting 40k against 30k and vice versa. People should be playing both! 😅

@CarlosSempereChen

2 жыл бұрын

No one defines "more tactical" the same way, but one reason I think it applies to 30k is the stronger paper/scissors/rock effects between weapon and target types. Weapons either penetrate or they don't; 40k's save modifiers make it more forgiving to use the wrong weapon. Terrain might be a factor too, but I'm not clear on how it works in 9th ed 40k. I get the sense that 30k's terrain rules are more intuitive but that comes with ambiguity. Balance is partially due to 80% of the game being marines and partially due to how slowly FW moves. It took eight years for the final legion to get a full set of rules under the previous edition! There's no flavor of the month because Forge World was writing a book a year... and because they realize that we spend years on a single army. Lots of detail, lots of cost, older playerbase with less free time (half the point was to sell retro 40k minis), so a slower pace. I think the big difference is that by zooming in on differences between (mostly) fundamentally similar armies, you get detail in both the rules and the modeling. It's a deep dive that, say, Eldar Craftworlds are unlikely to ever receive because there's so much breadth to cover in 40k.

Keep up the good work dude, can't wait for dark Angel's and emperors children

@blackbriargaming5483

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks! They'll be a while yet 😅😔

@ce017

2 жыл бұрын

@@blackbriargaming5483 well, I can wait, just excited for when they do drop 😂😁

Please do a video on Imperial fists

@blackbriargaming5483

2 жыл бұрын

All in good time 😁

waiting for the TS entry!

@blackbriargaming5483

2 жыл бұрын

Sons of Horus today, so we're getting close!

Ward Beavers! Ward Beavers! Thank you for your true believer video! Glory to Urizen!

@blackbriargaming5483

2 жыл бұрын

Love those big Ward Beaver fans!

Iron Warriors next pleeeassse!

@blackbriargaming5483

2 жыл бұрын

Ha ha. Going reverse order so a while to go. But I have an IW Army so have been digging deep. Lots of bolters. Lots of heavy fire power. Lots of tanks and artillery. Also pro-robots. I'm hoping we get some characters back for them soon!

I didn't think the plasma gun upgrades ignore the "get's hot" special rule, as it says above the weapon upgrades that they still keep all of the existing rules for the weapons plus the new additions for the weapons?

@blackbriargaming5483

2 жыл бұрын

Nope, easy mistake to make, that's a catch all phrase to refer to other rules that interact with plasma (see weapon types in the rule books). Plasma itself doesn't inherently have gets hot, that special rule is always included separately in the weapon profile. Note how Breaching (4+) is still included while gets hot has been purposefully left off. So, yeah, these are just WAY better plasma guns. Which is really cool!

@danevans1681

2 жыл бұрын

@@blackbriargaming5483 thanks for the reply and clarification 😁 I shall make more plasma

Thoughts on Mhara Gal, do they make it in to any Word Bearers lists?

@blackbriargaming5483

Жыл бұрын

Dreadnoughts are almost definitely over powered. Mhara Gal's are better. In the right list.

Im building my word bearer army just now from the starter set. I have picked up the dark apostle model for chaos 40k and mixed it with the praetor kit that came with it - look awesome although i also used a deathwatch paragon blade with rune markings! I grabbed spare thunder hammers mk3 and put them on my terms(i also made a custom banner from my SBGL parts) and load them up in the spartan to deliver them into objective or just to generally smash. I used the legionnaire chaos bits to make a corrupt despoiler squad and tac marines with chain bayonets. I also have a warp blaster support squad and Im pondering what to do with my final 10 marines and 5 terms!! I'm honestly thinking of missile launcher heavy squad and potential grabbing more thunder hammers to boost the command squad! any ideas very welcome!!!

@blackbriargaming5483

10 ай бұрын

Hey some more Line boys in there! Recon, Tacs, Breachers or Assaulty boys. Maybe some Lightning Claw Termies to mix it up?

@Jactheripper21

10 ай бұрын

@@blackbriargaming5483 yeah lighting claw termies makes sense! i think assaulty bois too but dunno where 2 get jet packs tbh!

Can u do alpha legion and new exodus character

Great video! Do emperors children next!

@blackbriargaming5483

2 жыл бұрын

SoH I'm afraid!

@steve8846

2 жыл бұрын

@@blackbriargaming5483 hey you know what that's not a bad alternative!

Are Gal Vorbak based on 32mm or 40mm?

@childrenofthesun471

2 жыл бұрын

40

I was originally going with a The Reaping Death Guard force as my first 30k army. but after watching a excellent lore video on word bearers, ive been debating making a Loyalist Word Bearers force using lots of ashen circle and terminators with big despoiler blobs. This may sound crazy, but ive already written a bunch of fun lore for it, and they still get ashen circle, warpfire blasters, and tainted blades, so its not all bad (and two of the awesome warlord traits)

Great video. One minor quibble. The strategy you described with nominating a rhino to be killed and then buffing an assault unit doesn't seem very fluffy to me. I mean it's a totally valid play but seems more like something that's being looked at with a competitive lense

@TimcPlays

2 жыл бұрын

What? It's a valid in game tactic. Nothing competitive about it. Kill the weaker unit to buff your dudes. I fear you'll be losing a lot of games for not playing strong plays because it's not "fluffy"

@blackbriargaming5483

2 жыл бұрын

Ha ha. I hear you. But I feel like the chaos gods can enjoy destruction of the mechanical (oooh and it's crew!?!) as well as the fleshy.

Surely you could corrupt all your apothecaries for just 25 points, as they are 1 infantry unit during list building

@blackbriargaming5483

2 жыл бұрын

Sounds legit to me!!

Cataphractii Terminators have the Heavy sub-type which means they can't run.

@blackbriargaming5483

2 жыл бұрын

There it is! Yeah. So definitely Tartaros if going on foot.

@LSTPcobra

2 жыл бұрын

@@blackbriargaming5483 Yeh it's a bit difficult keeping track of what has rules now with the introduction of sub-types. Ashen Circle are also classed as Heavy so even though they have jump packs they also cannot run.

@liammorgan1413

2 жыл бұрын

@@LSTPcobra Probably because using their jump packs isn't considered running. Destroyer Squads have the same issue. Given that you're not allowed to run if you use jump packs anyway does soften the blow however.

Remember that the ability to bypass the issue of Gets Hot means that a heavy support squad with plasma cannons is that much more viable in Word Bearers. Having seen how they can play, I can attest to even a small 5-man squad of them being really valuable. I'm also fairly confident that Ashen Circle are actually legion-specific Destroyers. They can take phosphex, if I recall correctly, and cannot be accompanied by any independent characters, courtesy of the Bitter Duty special rule, unlike Assault Squads. Another thing to bear in mind with their legion-specific advanced reaction is that it cannot be used on a unit being shot at with blast or template weapons. My Salamanders thus far have benefitted a fair amount from this with the abundance of both, but it can really hamstring an opponent's ability to bring more direct weaponry to bear against any Word Bearers infantry unit.

@blackbriargaming5483

2 жыл бұрын

For sure! I noticed that Plasma Cannon action AS I was talking about the Dark Brethren Row 😅 Very tasty.

@liammorgan1413

2 жыл бұрын

@@blackbriargaming5483 it's also all the more reason to grab nuncio-vox upgrades across your army too. Being able to re-roll any and all scatter rolls is *HUGE* for missile and plasma cannon squads, not to mention rapier quad mortars.

@blackbriargaming5483

2 жыл бұрын

@@liammorgan1413 HUGE! If only any if the actual artillery was decent... will be interesting to see what the older artillery units do when they come out in Heresy 'Legends'.

@liammorgan1413

2 жыл бұрын

@@blackbriargaming5483 Oh, the current artillery is good for what it can do: saturate a target and surrounding units with enough hits and wounds that their target will invariably fail some of their saves (even with 3+ or 2+ armour saves). The only targets this won't work well against are vehicles, dreadnoughts, speeders, and to a lesser extent Heavy Infantry and properly placed Skirmisher Infantry. It's more a counterplay to mass Infantry as is.

@blackbriargaming5483

2 жыл бұрын

@@liammorgan1413 eh. I'm just not excited about doing 5 to 8 AP4 wounds. Kill maybe 3 marines? Feels underwhelming. But I also think a lack of long range AP2/3 pie plates is good for the game 😊

But assaulting out of a droppod is allowed this edition so putting 6 Gal Vorbak in a dreadclaw sounds good as the dreadclaw even can supper them

@blackbriargaming5483

2 жыл бұрын

Is it?? I only got my rulebook yesterday. Finally! So will have to check this out. I thought there were issues with disembarking a transport?

@liammorgan1413

2 жыл бұрын

@@blackbriargaming5483 only transports with the Assault Vehicle special rule (Land Raiders, Spartans, Storm Eagles, Kharybdis Assault Claws, Thunderhawks, Stormbirds, Mastodons) will allow troops disembarking them to charge in that same turn.

@blackbriargaming5483

2 жыл бұрын

@@liammorgan1413 right?? Not dreadclaws. Unless I'm mistaken?

@liammorgan1413

2 жыл бұрын

@@blackbriargaming5483 Dreadclaws sadly don't have the Assault Vehicle special rule.