Honestly, this round of "FAQs" was highly underwhelming, and yet completely met my expectations

Of all the rounds of FAQs they have released, this is one of them.

Return Fire: When you fire before the fire you are returning.

Hey man, love the coverage and the content! I love HH and just got into the 2nd edition. I don't have many friends IRL into it as of now to play with/discuss stuff, so i love listening to your opinion on all these rules. Such a complex game, it deserves all the discussion!

@Hearesy

Жыл бұрын

Thanks Thomas. Hope you manage to get some games soon!

ngl these FAQs completely fit what I expected GW to publish lmao

Great content as always! Classic GWS proof reading and hopefully the FAQs won't spiral into the mess 40k is currently in. Personally my friends and I read the rules and FAQs and agree on what's intended and makes for enjoyable games. However events might rule differently on how the FAQs have changed the rules. I think the Return Fire FAQ is intended for the timing of declaring the reaction but the way its written is very powerful and disruptive. As far as the primarchs losing shrouded due to being fearless seems like a proof reading mistake. I think it's intended they have shrouded but as written not anymore so hopefully GWS will give us more clarity on these changes in the future.

If Coils of the Hydra is the SAME unit, that's super lame. I have no desire to take 3 of the same unit. And yeah, it would be spammy when you have to play against 3 units of Gal Vorbak, Siege Tyrants, Inner Circle Knights, Suzerain, etc. I would feel cheap fielding 3 units of any of those.

@Hearesy

Жыл бұрын

Yep. Very lame. Definitely worth asking your opponents if they dont mins you just using 3 *less good* units rather than spamming the same one 3 times!

@Buffaluffasaurus

Жыл бұрын

Yeah as someone who was weighing up starting an Alpha Legion army or not, this ruling would be enough to push me away from them. Which is a shame, because I didn’t even want to run three powerful units… I just wanted to run some of the coolest looking units from other legions.

I thought i made more sense the Lion would keep bonus attacks even if healed. Its not like he would be less mad.

We had an issue with the flier and interceptor as it does say a fliers movement does not trigger a reaction and interceptor is a reaction. although it should we felt RAW it didn't... also the reason for the needle pistol is due to the fact it was the pistol it came with in HH1.0 and so we all modelled them.

The needle pistol addition isn’t too weird. The only official Primus Medicae model they’ve ever released(the terminator one)is armed with one.

@richmcgee434

Жыл бұрын

Nice throwback to Rogue Trader too - I'm pretty sure one of the early medic figs had an injector that could easily have been a needle pistol.

Would've liked clarification on Zardu Layak getting to use his retinue rule to add a command squad to him and the blades slaves and that's also okay, given that they've been invalidating the rules of primarchs like you mentioned. Appreciated the review! Pointed out things I didn't notice!

Thanks GW, I guess I will just run my DG Scorpius and zoom around the table with my rending Barrage missles.

Knowing the HH development team is aware and has seen the work of the Liber Panoptica discord (they are probably in there) they must surely know there are a LOT more things to address than the pdf contains. How can they seriously put it out and be satisfied? Also, I am not going to let ppl I play with/against embark or disembark in a reaction. That's dumb.

Good discussion as always. I always look forward to each upload, though don’t always bother commenting.

@Hearesy

Жыл бұрын

Thanks, thats lovely to hear!

Palatine blades got jump packs so that is nice.

Need a how to equip video for legion terminators.

One thing I have come across in the liber books a gravis lascannon for the contemptor is not listed as twin linked but is in the build guide for the age of darkness boxes and all the other gravis weapons that should be are listed as twin linked.

@Hearesy

Жыл бұрын

Theyre not twin linked, they have 2 shots instead

@svenicefang5861

Жыл бұрын

@@Hearesy I was under the impression that all the doubled barrelled gravis weapons got one or 2 more shots than the standard version and where also twin linked. The melta, bolter, autoncannon and volkite weapons all get an extra short and twin linked.

@Hearesy

Жыл бұрын

Nope i dont think theres much consistency. Gravis multimelta is two multimeltas. Gravis autocannon is 1.5 autocannons but no twinlink. Its a bit random!

Me, an AL player eyeing up the Fulmentarus :D

@Hearesy

Жыл бұрын

Baaaaaad

What do you think of the mournival unit list and rules

@Hearesy

Жыл бұрын

Not really my thing to be honest but i think they do a great job and put a lot of effort in for the crowd that are into that stuff!

Does DG rule that gives them relentless apply to vehicles or only infantry? I thought it was unclear and expected to find answer in this FAQ PS: not playing yet, just thinking about getting into systemso my rules knowledge is shallow a bit

@Hearesy

Жыл бұрын

I believe most people are playing that it affects vehicles too, as thats how it is written. I dont believe thats intended personally, but it is clear raw. I wouldn’t be diving into a brand-new death guard vehicle army just yet though if it were me

How would it work out if I declare shots with a pinning weapon, the enemy unit declares return fire, but then my attack succeeds in pinning them? Does it still consume one of my enemy's reactions for the shooting phase?

@Hearesy

Жыл бұрын

I think currently it would prevent them using the reaction, they *declare* before you shoot but they dont *expend* until after you shoot. That said, i think return fire pinning/blind/etc is an oversight and not intentional. I’ll be considering all return fire truly simultaneous until the faq the faq, and I’d suggest others do the same.

I think embarking or disembarking as part of the movement reaction is kinda cool actually.... besides, most of em are easy to kill so blow up the rhino in the shooting phase and pin em

Resolving multiple wound pools and casualty removals was weird in the OG, RAW return fire and still seems a little odd. Maybe Return Fire could be declared after casualty removal and then only dead or wounded models fire? Would certainly tone it down...

I'm a little confused, because the Age of Darkness rulebook states in pretty clear language that the reacting player elects to return fire or evade "Once the active player has resolved all To Hit and To Wound rolls, and Armour Saves are made, but before anyDamage Mitigation rolls are made or casualties removed". I don't see how there can be any room to interpret that, nor why they decided to change it in the FAQ

@nehrigen

Жыл бұрын

Classic GW not even knowing their own rules

@Hearesy

Жыл бұрын

Its unclear because it says you "choose to react" when the enemy makes a shooting attack, and *then* it says "choose to spend a reaction" after the dice rolls are all made. It actually has 2 timing windows specified (which is why I played it the first way, as reacting after dice are all rolled didnt seem intentional) So its good they clarified it, not good they clarified it how they did, haha

@Tectonix26

Жыл бұрын

@@Hearesy yeah definitely, thanks for clarifying man

The return fire change make Sons of Horus' once per game reaction garbage.

Return fire might as well be called "interrupt fire" which I hope wasn't intended. That can lead to this reaction causing the firing unit to become pinned before they actually shoot...That is pretty crazy.

@jeffers1985

Жыл бұрын

Me and friend house rule that the unit shooting goes first and then sort wounds and saves. Then opposing player returns fire at unit strength before wounds

The wording of the return fire and overwatch at least now mean that you can't cast untargeted psychic abilities, was really annoying when I'd charge in with 1 low value unit and their psycher would drop 3 blast templates on a different high value unit. Though now maybe that also means that you can't do things like use a Cognis Signum instead of shooting to buff BS since that isn't targeting the triggering unit either...

You have a link to the Community Libers?

still as far as I can see no way to give a Thousand Sons Praetor a full fat force sword

Embarking/disembarking DG incoming? That would be the least Deathguardy thing to do. Tell me it doesn’t work and I’m wrong?

@Hearesy

Жыл бұрын

They don’t get their thing when they disembark iirc but itll still be good (and annoying) anyway!

Have they made dreadnoughts less broken? Part of my extended gaming group are playing 30k every Friday night and they (a competitive meta) are all building and painting 4, 5 and even 6 dreadnoughts each! Very few vehicles. I haven’t joined in but are they right? Are dreadnoughts OP?

@Hearesy

Жыл бұрын

Theyre a bit good yeh. My suggestion would be to limit them to 2 or 3 in 2000 points.

@davidwasilewski

Жыл бұрын

@@Theendisnear_ok agreed. I own around 5K points of painted resin death guard and I’m contemplating going over to one page rules to be honest.

why is the servo arm question only in liber mechanicus when astartes can also use them? I really don't like that ruling, like do they pull their servo arm off and swing it around to use it as a cc weapon?

@Hearesy

Жыл бұрын

Its just a melee weapon like any other now. It makes sense for continuity.

@klasclaywood2667

Жыл бұрын

@@Hearesy they didn't answer if Iron-fathers with Battlesmith 3+ still get +2 to the roll for their machinator array or if that is built in to the 3+ already

Still confused about how bad Dragon Breath Flamecannon is. You lose defensive for the bump 7 str and salamanders wall of death doesn't matter.

If only thar statement was in the PDF itself...

Now it's clrearly visible that new Horus Heresy is pure Games Workshop product...

@Hearesy

Жыл бұрын

It was doing so well. Still time to recover!

@Tonnolin

Жыл бұрын

Idk forgeworld wasnt really known for super proof read either

It's like they made-up dumb questions to answer just to fit the page.

The new return fire states before hit rolls are made which is a specific step after compiling dice and declaring weapons. The attack pool is not modified whatsoever, even if models are removed. Don‘t know why ppl see the sky falling when it‘s obvious how to apply the changes. Edit: It may affect rerolls etc. granted via characters though.

@Hearesy

Жыл бұрын

I agree, i think its clearly only intended to change the reaction declaretion timing. But lacking the “resolution” clarification it had before has a lot of people thinking it means more than it does.

When a FAQ messes the game up even more... smh

These all sound like they were written in an afternoon and no one actually bothered to read the full paragraph after changing it or checking what was being affected...

Most 40k books get a light touch faq and then a more thorough one later on if necessary

Corax can’t use shrouded…in the lore, hasn’t he morphed into an *actual living shadow* due to warp exposure? Very sloppy, GW. Next you’re gonna tell me Salamander’s don’t like meltaguns anymore.

The expanded units for the most part are more balanced then the core book units if not alot weaker baring the ultra terms, so I'll be using them for flavour rather then the very limited legion specific units in the books . It's not a meta chasing min max game like 40k and that mentality needs to get away from the game .

I disagree with your assessment of the Return Fire reaction. The FAQ clearly only states that you have to choose to react before any to hit rolls are made. If you look at what it says regarding the return fire reaction, it states ‘change the first sentence’ which means the second sentence still applies. The second sentence of return fire in the rulebook says that the reaction is made after the active player has made their rolls. I don’t disagree that the FAQ is a little disappointing, but if you’re going to bash it, you should at least pay closer attention, before you put out false information to the community.

@Hearesy

Жыл бұрын

I think you need to reread the faq sir. It replaces the second sentence - the one where it talks about after dice rolls. That said, I still maintain that that doesnt make it an interrupt, since it does specify before to hit rolls, which is clearly intended to still allow both units to be simultaneous no matter how bad the wording.

@randyoverland7221

Жыл бұрын

@@Hearesy it replaces the second sentence of general reactions in the shooting phase, but the line specifically about return fire changes the first sentence, which is what I was referring to

Not to give GW a pass on poorly written rules, or incomplete FAQ’s...but... There are folks out there that can and will twist an iron bar into a pretzel. Intentionally misread rules, and insist that their interpretation is correct. One reason I avoid competitive play.

Worst thing ever, I dont want FAQ every month like in 40k trash. I hate this.