That’s a surprisingly modern looking revolver. Would not be out of place in 1930. Looks like a nice gun.

@ArcturusOTE

4 жыл бұрын

Ikr, had I not read the title I would've thought this was some sort of modernized classic stylized SAR

@loochan325

4 жыл бұрын

The grip angle is bad, to straight on the back. High bore axis on a straight grip result in a very unpleasent mazle rise. Old single shot pistols were made by smarter gunsmiths, with very angled grip, so that the hand joint is blocked in line with the barell. We can see that on modern pistols like Luger, Steyr M1, and most of the target pistols. The only downside of the angled grip is that is not good for hep shooting...

@BleedingUranium

4 жыл бұрын

It's gorgeous! Like a more modern revolver squished into the shape of a Schofield. The stainless finish with black grips doesn't hurt, either.

@Drew_42

4 жыл бұрын

@@BleedingUranium The grip and finish is probably why it looks "modern"

@johnkelinske1449

4 жыл бұрын

@@loochan325 No, depends on the cartridge and how you shoot. The Luger is hardly a modern pistol. having been first adopted by the Swiss in 1900, 120 years ago now. The grip is probably about right, it will tend to point the muzzle a bit low if you are snap shooting so when the bullet actually leaves and heads for the target, the barrel rise from recoil is compensated for and you are more likely to score a hit.

crap or not, this thing is in astonishing shape for being over 100 years old

@GR46404

4 жыл бұрын

I would bet that being a rimfire has something to do with that. The ammunition it used may have dried up before WWI.

@Silamon2

4 жыл бұрын

He never said anything about this one being a bad gun, he said the company had a reputation for selling cheap crap so when they tried to release a quality gun no one bought it.

@BrownSofaGamer

4 жыл бұрын

Silamon He explicitly said it was a good gun.

@coltpiecemaker

4 жыл бұрын

@@Silamon2 It's like if Hi-Point suddenly decided to try and sell an M1911, but at the same price as a Colt. Doesn't matter if it is just as good, no one would buy it, save for a few doing it for the meme I suppose...

@johnkelinske1449

4 жыл бұрын

@@GR46404 Last ammo production of the big rimfires like that ended when the ammo factories in the US tooled up to meet contracts during WW-1

The Bacon Manufacturing Co.: Where every gun is a Grease Gun!

@RalphReagan

4 жыл бұрын

Lol

@Allan_aka_RocKITEman

4 жыл бұрын

BACONNNNNNNNN...😝

@muhughu

4 жыл бұрын

I actually own a Bacon revolver, it's an original civil war era pocket gun with the serial number 152.

"They are like the Hi-Point of ....." , that enough to know where this is going.

@AshleyPomeroy

4 жыл бұрын

They should have done what Toyota did with Lexus, and invented a new brand name. That might have helped.

@stevegredell1123

4 жыл бұрын

@@AshleyPomeroy That's what I thought, in 1980 they would have re-branded, in 1880 they were fucked

@vaclav_fejt

4 жыл бұрын

@@AshleyPomeroy Except Toyota is a good brand by itself. More like what is Dacia to Renault...but in the other direction.

@lordkiki347

2 жыл бұрын

A hundred years from now…………. “I have this Jimenez it’s old so it must be worth a lot.”

This is an excellent example 'negative reputation'; and, good reminder that "reputation is EVERYTHING". (As an aside, that pistol looks solid, and well-made...and probably is.) Something that the Remington Firearms Company has decided to throw away...

@vaclav_fejt

4 жыл бұрын

Colt too.

@JohnDoe-nf7up

3 жыл бұрын

@@vaclav_fejt only a few of the new pythons had cylinders that would only occasionally not revolve

@vaclav_fejt

3 жыл бұрын

@@JohnDoe-nf7up I don't know about that, I've only heard about them when they re-issued some of the early M16's for ludicrous prices.

@JohnDoe-nf7up

3 жыл бұрын

@@vaclav_fejt generally speaking take a few hundred off the price and you have what other companies would charge if they were making colts gun. Only thing keeping Colt alive are military contracts and their legacy. That isn't enough to make up for the decidedly lacking quality to price ratio

Hopkins & Allen are usually credited as being the actual maufacturers of the Merwin & Hulbert revolvers which bring a high $ collector price today. Their last hurrah was getting a contract to make Model 1889 rifles for the Belgians in WW-1.

You're damn right I'm gonna watch a Forgotten Weapons presentation at 4:56 am. Keep up the good work.

@xgford94

4 жыл бұрын

Justin A 9:56 here in Australia, aka I start work at 6:30 and need to sleep....but this first

It's funny how these lessons have to be learned over and over again. Remember the VW Phaeton? Big-ticket luxury car, meant to compete with the Mercedes-Benz S-class et al. Completely flopped because who's going to pay S-class money for a Volkswagen? Never mind that it arguably _was_ that much money's worth of car, the badge created the automatic expectation that there was no way it could be worth the asking price. Also, they obviously should have called it the XL _R_ 8.

@GR46404

4 жыл бұрын

That XLR 8 gag baffled me for a second before I got it, ZGryphon. Thanks!

@JS-ob4oh

4 жыл бұрын

@Zgryphon Not exactly. The failure of VW's Phaeton is not as simple as you make it. The only reason VW produced the Phaeton was a knee-jerk response to Mercedes' A-class (not the S-class) which was targeted at the low end of the luxury car market or high end of the mid-range cars. VW saw Mercedes' decision as a threat and encroachment of their market share because VW was at the time in partnership with Audi producing the A8 which was positioned for that market sector. However, instead of adding or enhancing the Audi line of A8, VW went ahead (and not consult with Audi) with the Phaeton which not only competed with the Mercedes A-class but the Audi A8 which only created further riff between VW/Audi. Even thought the Phaeton was a failure in the US, it was not so in other world markets such as S. Korea and China where the VW brand actually helped the Phaeton sales because VW had established itself as a reliable well engineered carmaker and being German at that which coupled with the typical Asian stereotype of Germans as some sort of super great engineers helped the sale of Phaeton. But you also forgot the lessons from Japanese cars. Perhaps, you are too young to remember but there was a time when practically everything with a "Made in Japan" label was consider cheap or low in quality. When Japanese cars were sold in the US, they was consider cheap and not really know of quality. It was their very good gas mileage that made everyone in the US take notice when the 1973 Oil Crisis hit. Companies like Toyota, Honda, and Nissun (Datsun) were not luxury car makers, but they are now. And I don't know of anyone except diehard American car lovers who have any problems buying a luxury model from any of the Japanese automakers.

@xanimosityxgaming2664

4 жыл бұрын

@@JS-ob4oh VW in a partnership with Audi? Lol no. VW has OWNED Audi since the '60s IIRC. The Phaeton failed purely because its was well over $100,000 at the time of its release which did not sit well with people in VWs main market share locations (US and Europe) due to them being known as a decent budget friendly car company. Also it was made as a knee-jerk reaction to the A-Class? Again, no. The A-Class came out in the '90s the Phaeton came out in '06. Even considering if it was '99 for the A-Class that's roughly 7 years. Even in the known to be slow as hell car industry, 7 years is not knee-jerk by any means.

@Face2theScr33n

3 жыл бұрын

When advertising goes wrong: www.nydailynews.com/news/world/ny-audi-young-girl-banana-ad-sincerely-apologize-20200804-3axew6ldybac7hy5e5wmmuzpne-story.html Lots of things can mess up a company's reputation! Edit to add: why on Earth wouldn't you give her an apple, instead? These marketers are pros, and that's either a massive error or a sinister attempt to normalize pedophilia!

"So I mentioned Merwin and Hulbert having an intimate relationship with Hopkins and Allen..." 🤔

@gunnarkvinlaug7226

4 жыл бұрын

So why not try to sell it to them?

"Charles ?" "Yes ?" "Yes ?" "Oh dammit... Allen !" "Yes ?" "Yes ?" "..."

@aidanfarnan4683

4 жыл бұрын

"Who's on first?"

@idontwanttoputmyname403

4 жыл бұрын

@@aidanfarnan4683 That's right.

I like the Hopkins & Allen Safety Police revolvers. They have an internal safety mechanism roughly equal in effectiveness and ingenuity to the Iver Johnson transfer bar device, although far less well known. Because of that, I don't like hearing them referred to as a company with a poor reputation. A man named Art Phelps wrote a book about Merwin Hulbert revolvers and blamed their failure to sell well on H&A's poor reputation, which I felt was unnecessary: the Merwin Hulberts were just overcomplicated, and also the big sales numbers at the time were in small revolvers, not 6 shot 44's. That latter issue may have been the problem with the XL 8 too. The Colt SAA revolver was not the huge seller that Western movies have led us to believe. But undeniably H&A was a maker of small cheap revolvers, with a reputation no better than Iver Johnson or Harrington & Richardson, and perhaps lower. Also, they suffered from financial problems. Merwin & Hulbert went bankrupt while owing them a lot of money, and later on their their factory burned down. (They had fire insurance, and bought the Forehand & Wadsworth factory with the proceeds. They made F&W-type revolvers for a while before developing the Safety Police model.) BTW, I think H&A did not disappear until about 1916 or 1917. They seem to have made a contract to supply Mauser-type rifles to the Belgian government after the fall of Belgium in 1914, and got into financial trouble because of it. They were bought out by the Marlin Rockwell Corporation, as it was then known. There is a recent book about the American rifle contracts for European countries in World War I, and apparently the H&A rifles made for Belgium are described there.

@johnkelinske1449

4 жыл бұрын

They made Model 1889 rifles and some carbines for Belgium, problem was that by the time production got under way and such, the Belgian government in exile couldn't pay for them and H&A went down as a result.

@tomjustis7237

4 жыл бұрын

I have a H&A 'Triple Action Safety Police' (5 shot top break) in .32 S&W which I use for pocket pistol side matches in Cowboy Action Shooting. Although well over 120 years old it still functions flawlessly and, within the limitations of its size, is quite accurate. All around good gun.

@carlosjohnson8625

4 жыл бұрын

Smith and Wesson was Colt's biggest competition,the major selling points for S&W was their revolvers used metallic cartridges before Colt and being top break revolvers they were much faster to reload than a Colt.

@michaelcruzen2666

4 жыл бұрын

Have a H&A single 12 I'm pretty sure it was made in 1910 but it's been awhile since I've researched it

I find it pretty interesting that your videos are always super easy to find because the way you make the title of the vid and the icon are pretty unique for a million sub channel

Finally! A company that I own a gun from! Mine being the wimpy Hopkins & Allen Safety Police (Small Frame). Top break, 5 round, chambered in .32 Smith & Wesson short.

@clicheusername4416

4 жыл бұрын

Another commenter said those have a really innovative safety system?

@TechGameEras

4 жыл бұрын

@@clicheusername4416 gun is currently half a nation away so I can't recall.

@Horerczy

4 жыл бұрын

@@clicheusername4416 the hammer is set on a cam so that when the hammer is at rest its not resting on the firing pin. When you pull the trigger it cams the hammer down into position and drops onto the firing pin. Once the trigger is released the hammer cams back up off the firing pin. Really neat design for its time.

That looks astonishingly modern. I love it.

They really missed the opportunity of calling it the Charles and Charles.

"They were good businessmen, they knew how to look at the market" "They were the Hi-Point of the old west, nobody would spend a lot for their gun"

@GR46404

4 жыл бұрын

The bulk of the business of the time was for small cheap revolvers. Look at the huge numbers of top-break Iver Johnsons, H&R's, and H&A's that have survived. I think IJ alone is thought to have made over a million five shot 32's and 38's. That is where H&A made most of their money. This big gun was a trial balloon that got shot down, IMO.

@Silamon2

4 жыл бұрын

Even a good businessman can make mistakes you know.

@ScottKenny1978

4 жыл бұрын

And how many guns has Hi-Point sold? Lots? Enough said.

@GR46404

4 жыл бұрын

Joe Dirt, there is nothing wrong with Hi Points. They sell guns that are reliable, at least when fairly new, for a reasonable price. They may not be as durable as a Glock, but they don''t cost like a Glock either.

@kw9849

4 жыл бұрын

Quantity over quality. The sheer number of cheapo H&A revolvers still floating around is a testament to this.

Ian is the Bob Ross of guns. So relaxing!

Anything made by the Bacon Manufacturing Company sounds like a good investment.

I really want a competition grade 1911 from hi-point now

Mervin and Holbert having an intimate relationship with Hopkins and Allen? I need to get my mind out of the gutter...

I have a Hopkins Allen from my greatx2 grandpa. Never seen anyone talk about them so thank you !

Looks like a Webley and colt new service had a baby

Thank you Ian - one used to own Hopkins & Allen .32 short . You gave nice inside into this manufacturers history.

Yes ..Very modern looking...Very nicely finished too.

Amazing video Ian! Love the book so far! I’ve been reading it before bed! Signature Edition!

I would love a video on the AEK-906 revolver. It’s like the rhino revolver but it’s a relic,it’s rare, and it’s Russian. It’s probably not going to happen but would be cool. It’s hard to find info on it. The barrel is on the bottom of the cylinder. Love the video

I have a hopkins and allen triple action safety police in 32 s&w. Good little gun and I bet Ian would get a kick out of showing off the unusually hammer cam system.

The last time I was this early revolvers were still under patent protection.

It sounds almost like Hopkins & Allen guns were more akin to Taurus of their day. Taurus has been built on a reputation for cheap and not always reliable. Now, they are actually make decent guns and have been for a while but their old reputation still comes back to haunt them and has caused more than a few products to be shelved as they were "failures" financially. I guess back then when there werent many gun articles or anything to review quality it was all word of mouth. The No. 8 seems to have a lot of great features, is surprisingly modern looking, and I bet they probably did alright too. But like you said, brand reputation matters. Seems this still holds true today for a lot of guns.

This lesson on reputation and quality needs to be shown to Remington and Mossberg. I swear by Mossberg's pump shotguns, but their rifle line is abysmal.

good to see you man!

Glad I found this for more info on mine I was given a 1879 no.6 4 inch revolver in 32s&w

Cool looking thing and antique

I wonder which Charles was in Charge

@mrpirate6187

4 жыл бұрын

Charles was

@Magnus_Kieler

4 жыл бұрын

Hmm... I thought it was Charles

@silverstrike6048

4 жыл бұрын

lol. That joke would have been funny in the 1880s or the 1980s.

@redram5150

4 жыл бұрын

@@silverstrike6048 you'll love when I get to my Joanie Loves Chachi material in five years

My dad was born in Norwich, Ct. The old family house is still there. Interesting town. Home town of Benedict Arnold. And on the town green stands the obligatory Civil War statue. The town fathers were a little on the cheap side, and shopped around for the statue. If you get up close to it, you can see the "CSA" on the belt buckle.

@hereb4theend

4 жыл бұрын

Isn't Benedict Arnold some kind of traitor?

Awesome vid! I picked up one of H&As S&W topbreak clones and it sent me down the rabbithole on their company/history. It's a shame they didn't have a lot of success as their guns seem all right to me.

Thank you , Ian .

My brother and I found an old Hopkins and Allen in my grandfathers workbench after he died. It was the Saturday nightiest Saturday night special ever. It measured to be 32cal. Had a nail to hold the cylinder in. The hammer would randomly drop with or without pulling the insanely hair trigger. Had a spent casing jammed into a chamber. So sketchy. Just like pops.

Very interesting revolver. Thanks for showing this Firearm , Gun Jesus !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you for the video. I have a H&A XL in .32 center fire which should be around 130 years old. I sometimes fire it but only with low velocity .32 wadcutters though 32 SW Long ammo does fit into the chamber. The revolver has a hexagonal 3-inch barrel and the loading port cover swings out to the right. The frame has a copper-like finish. It is a double action by the way. Now I have to figure out which one came first; the one I have or the army model in this video.

I have one in 38 sw center fire. Mine has a case hardened finish with lanyard and 6" octagon barrel. In great condition for 1886-88 . Quite a few small companies made high quality revolvers in Norwich, Ct and Rockfalls,Ct pre 1900. I had customers bring me buckets of these guns to my Hyde Park,Mass. store in the 1970-80's era

Ian, thanks for your briefing on that gun..... Would love to have it and have some fun shooting the same....

It’s a good “looking” revolver; I’m digging it.

Good looking revolver!

Nice looking Revolver.

You pronounced Norwich correctly this time Ian, well done. I live in the old timey Norwich across the pond and got a chuckle out of you saying it as 'norr witch' before in some previous video. I thought maybe that was how it is pronounced by the local residents like Birmingham, Alabama.

1877 ! that is stunning !

I wonder if Colt took a page from Hopkins and Allen when designing the 1892

Looks darn nice for it's age!

It looks like a nice gun. It amazes me that mass production swing out cylinder revolvers took so long to come to fruition. It seems like it would be a short leao of logic from that ejector rod to hey, why not mount the cylinder to that apparatus and speed up the reloading process. Companies should always do their best so they build a solid reputation from the very start. But maybe they were prioritizing and trying to save effort. I wish more revolvers were made with 5" barrels. It is a great split the difference length. One of these in a 5" .44-40 probably would have made a great martial revolver. Great video as always. Thank you

God i want a gun made by bacon. I bet it smells like tasty pork :)

So they were the Hi-Point Company circa 1885. Lots of real sales but nobody wants to admit owning their pistol.

Can't beat a classic

I actually love this thing. Don't have the money to bid on it though lol. Betcha it runs better than the new Colt Pythons.

when I saw the thumbnail on my phone thought it was a Smith & Wesson.

I have a Hopkins and Allen double barrel shotgun. My father hunted pheasants with it as a kid. Just a wall piece now

"hi point of the old west" lol thats good......

Old school Jennings, Bryce, Jimenez before they were household names. Looks like a S&W 1905 hand ejector i.e. Model 10 without the swing out cylinders and a Nagant Revolver had a kid.

My first rifle was a Hopkins&Allen 822.

If you're going to add a high-end model to a low-end brand or a low-end model to a high-end brand always generate a different name for it. Even a good Econo box would hurt the Rolls-Royce brand and more to the point here nobody is going to buy a limousine from Tata.

If I recall correctly, CW Hopkins was Bacon's son in law. Nice revolver!

I guess the idea of sub brands had not been thought of yet. I'm thinking Lexus for Toyota, Acura for Honda etc.. - they could have marketed the gun as the new Akins and Hallen - premier guns for the discerning frontiersman.

I hope my ghost looks this good when I'm 143. This looks better than several of my FAR newer pistols. In particular, my 1930s Smith & Wesson looks like it survived a tornado made of bricks, but this No.8 looks like someone just bought it from a mustachio'd shopkeep in a general store somewhere in the Rockies for less than 20 dollars. Probably got a free box of shells thrown in. Lucky bugger. (I suspect a lot of these were bought primarily because they were different and odd.)

I guess it does at least have looks going for it

Their reputation basically killed off Merwin&Hulbert too. Btw, I got this from a guy called Ian McCollum :-)

Peculiar pistol! Looks both classic and modern, some elegance and some brutality. A pity it is'nt more known! So how's the grip? Does it seem to be comfortable and pointable?

When was the first swing out cylinder revolver made? It looks like somebody updated the swinging extractor rod to what lately became the crane of the cylinder

@warriorwolf77

4 жыл бұрын

Think it was some time around in 63? 53 maybe? there's a video on a revolver with the original patent on FW if you check

@MakayevR29

4 жыл бұрын

Moores patent revolver You can find a fw video here kzread.info/dash/bejne/gaN9r9lun6nFh5M.html

@GustavoRubioGSR

4 жыл бұрын

thanx for the info people

I love revolvers

People can hate all they want, but this was my main sidearm carry in OIF.

@baneofbanes

2 ай бұрын

Lol

Sweet !

I see a venue you haven't really covered. US made spur trigger cartridge revolvers of the 19th century. :)

It is gourgeous though.

Hopkins & Allen, a company known for XS No.1, S No.2 and M No.4 now presents their newest model XL No.8. In the near future they plan to release XXL No.12

Nice

I seen a couple of these in my friends private gun collation

If it was built a bit heavier it would be fine it looks pretty slick

Ian, is the Hopkins and Allen story similar to the Forehand and Wadsworth story?

@barryallenporter8127

4 жыл бұрын

Joshua Wade They’re very interconnected. Here’s a good little article. www.google.com/amp/s/gundigest.com/more/classic-guns/forehand-wadsworth-other-guys-deserve-mention/amp

looks like the double action from red dead 2

With an slightly less longer barrel would be more appealing to me, and i think that a better 24/7 carry piece for it's time.

Did they ever make a double action version of this set up?

It's a surprisingly good looking gun.

@ScottKenny1978

4 жыл бұрын

I don't know, that grip angle looks awful.

@enricopaolocoronado2511

4 жыл бұрын

@@ScottKenny1978 Yeah, the grip is my only complaint about the gun. Would be awkward to use in any situation. But as a collector's item, it'll look good on display.

@AndrewAMartin

4 жыл бұрын

@@enricopaolocoronado2511 It reminds me of the Colt Bisley grip.

Trying to compete with arguably the most iconic revolver in history is always going to fail.

In Battle Field 5 this gun is the Model 27

I never got those swing-out ejector rods. At that point, why not leave the ejector on the cylinder and have the cylinder swing out with it?

@johnkelinske1449

4 жыл бұрын

More complicated to machine and fit, prone to dirt and mud ingestion.

Still a neat looking weapon.

Ha, you would never have known that it doesn't have a swing out cylinder unless you handled it. But that made me wonder, before stuff like transfer bars, were there any single action revolvers with safeties like a rebounding hammer?

@idontwanttoputmyname403

4 жыл бұрын

There were some with manual safeties on them if that's what you're looking for.

@johnkelinske1449

4 жыл бұрын

German 1879 Reichsrevolver has a manual safety and it is single action.

Silly question: Wouldn't a centre fire revolver also be able to use rimfire ammunition? The primer surley is all across the base of the cartridge.

I wish they would bring back the bigger rimfires, .32 .38 etc

@sawyere2496

4 жыл бұрын

That would be pretty cool

@GR46404

4 жыл бұрын

Well, they would be nice for larger versions of the Mossberg Brownie. Otherwise, they are underpowered and not reloadable, and would not be cheap - 22 LR is only cheap because it is made by the million. But you are right, it would be interesting.

Cool pistol, looks like something from the late 1800s

Imagine traveling back in time and giving them a Hi-Point to reverse engineer.

Nice.

The grip looks sooooo uncomfortable.

I want one of their safety police revolvers.

Looks almost like my 1906 colt DA revolver

Snub the nose and angle the grip a bit more and it would look like a modern revolver.

Born and raised in Norwich Connecticut and I Pretty sure what building that it was in I live around the corner from it

@5whiskey5

4 жыл бұрын

It's marked with an old plaque. Downtown at the corner of Franklin and Willow st.

could you review the vector smg?

Ian did you read the declassified documents from Australian Army from late 1980 and early 1990 about test they performed between M16/M4 and AUG. They did the tests because they were looking for replacement of their rifle.

Hi Point? Everything I have seen or read says they are reliable. Ugly yes. Heavy yes. Ergonomic no. But still reliable.

@leighrate

4 жыл бұрын

Jerry K plus one on that one. Particularly after DemoRanch nearly came unstuck trying to destroy half a dozen of them. About the only thing you need to remember about Hi-Points is to not use light for calibre or "low recoil" rounds in it. Stick to standard pressure bulk ammo & you will be fine.

@ScottKenny1978

4 жыл бұрын

Yes, Hi-Point guns go bang every time. There's a good market for "cheap and reliable".

@johnkelinske1449

4 жыл бұрын

@@ScottKenny1978 I recall a lot of people thinking the same thing about the Chevy Vega and Ford Pinto once long ago.

@leighrate

4 жыл бұрын

Scott Kenny Yep, wouldn't it be nice if Hi-Point was able to go Glock magazine compatible.

Is that grip a polished wood, or is it some kind of bakelite type of material? I wasnt aware of there being such a thing pre 1885. I've been wrong many times before, I guess it's just wood.

@SonicsniperV7

4 жыл бұрын

@@sinisterthoughts2896 Yeah they look like hard rubber to me as well

@richardhunter9995

4 жыл бұрын

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ebonite

@johnkelinske1449

4 жыл бұрын

Molded hard rubber.