I don’t think people understand how wacky it would have been to find THE Troy. Imagine you just go to where Tolkien said the Shire would have been and then you actually find a Hobbit hole. Fuckin crazy.

@luigiboi4244

Жыл бұрын

Thing is, there actually is somewhat an actual Shire and Hobbit Hole. Yes, they were used for exterior shots of the movie, but in a few thousand years or so just imagine what people would think. They would probably find abandoned and falling apart Hobbit Holes all over the place and leap to the conclusion that maybe we live in the darkest timeline of The Lord of the Rings.

@Copyright_Infringement

Жыл бұрын

@@luigiboi4244 IDK, They'd be located on New Zealand, wouldn't they? NZ looks nothing like Middle Earth on a map

@zetijeti

Жыл бұрын

After that it's no wonder people started looking for Atlantis - if one tale is true, who's to say the other isn't

@thechurchofsymmetra8247

Жыл бұрын

That happened with Hindu mythology. The Mahabharat lists exactly where the ancient city of Dwarka was and says it sunk underneath the ocean. Low and behold we have found that SAME city preserved under water exactly where scriptures said it was Pretty cool

@Kontaro431

Жыл бұрын

@@zetijeti It was....but turns out it was basicly a pre-Minoan culture...whose capitol had accidently been built on top of a volcano....which boomed

As a historian and archaeologist in training I am compelled to point out that Frank Calvert was the one who actually asked the locals where Troy was, Schliemann just showed up with money after the fact :P

@merrittanimation7721

Жыл бұрын

And dynamite

@Auscan_Octrice

Жыл бұрын

🎵 and then troy burned once more

@geoffdewitt6845

Жыл бұрын

Archaeologists: This is a monumental find! We need to carefully excavate each individual layer to preserve the incredible knowledge found here! Schliemann: Counterpoint: BOOM.

@eshbena

Жыл бұрын

And we are STILL cleaning up after Schliemann's mess to this day!

@merrittanimation7721

Жыл бұрын

@@geoffdewitt6845 Schliemann: Look at this gold mask! It was definitely Agamemnon's. Archeologists: But why though. Even mythologically there were a lot of kings of Mycenae- Schliemann: IT'S AGAMEMNON DON'T QUESTION ME

*Heinrich Schliemann:* discovers nine layers of Troy. *Also Heinrich Schliemann:* destroys eight layers of Troy with dynamite.

@aetherinfuse

Жыл бұрын

He wanted to finish what Agamemnon started

@OriginalCreatorSama

11 ай бұрын

iirc he thought that troy would be buried deep given how long ago it had supposedly existed. It's understandable to not expect extra city on top of that, but foolish to use FREAKING EXPLOSIVES near an ARCHAEOLOGICAL DIG.

@ecurewitz

11 ай бұрын

Whoops!

@paolocontest3610

2 ай бұрын

@@ecurewitzwhoopsie!

@seanhartnett79

Ай бұрын

Yep.

As Red said: Mycenaean Greece is ' basically Ancient Greece squared '

@quyanapatton6951

Жыл бұрын

So true

@thegreendragoninn8730

Жыл бұрын

I like to think of them as 'Ancient Greece in beta testing'

@5peciesunkn0wn

Жыл бұрын

Wouldn't it be the square root since Ancient Greece is Mycenaean Greece^2?

@Punaparta

Жыл бұрын

@@5peciesunkn0wn What it means is that Mycenaean Greece is to Ancient Greece what Ancient Greece is to us.

@AlbertaGeek

Жыл бұрын

@@Universal.. It's like you _want_ your post to be flagged as spam.

Mycenaean King: They burned our crops, poisoned our water supply, and delivered a plague unto our houses! Mycenaean people: They did? Mycenaean King: No, but are we gonna wait until they do? *builds massive fortress complex*

@palmerharrison7660

Жыл бұрын

I mean its pretty easy to see THEM doing all that to you when you're already planning to do the same to them.

@Pheatan

Жыл бұрын

@@Universal.. hush

@Highonwater3X

Жыл бұрын

​@@Universal.. Ethno-nationalism is a cancer.

@mokarokas-1727

Жыл бұрын

@@Universal.. - Pretty sure humans have settled in Greece for up to ten thousand years, but okay. Not sure what you're trying to accomplish with spamming your pseudo-historical nationalistic propaganda for Albanians, though...

@Universal..

Жыл бұрын

@@mokarokas-1727 Propaganda? What propaganda? My sources are not even Albanian but foreign (French and Greek) and moreover they are great sources like the Greek source that I showed you. This does not surprise me from you because only the Greeks tell me that I show "propaganda"... You say that because you are afraid that the truth will come out.

This feels like a dark gritty reboot of the Trojan War story where the Mycenaeans realize that they were the bad guys all along. I love it.

@zenogias01

Жыл бұрын

I would seriously love realistic treatment ofnthe Trojan War that plays out loke a Game of Thrones-esque historical drama telling thenstory of several generations, with the Fall of Troy being, I dunno, book four of five or something. Start with the pan-Bronze Age civilization at its height and end with everything falling into historical darkness.

@It-Will-All-Be-Okay-I-Promise

Жыл бұрын

@@Universal.. Well, yes, but they only live in Albania and Kosovo (as well as parts of neighboring nations) now. No Cassus Bellae here Mr. Illyria

@Xalerdane

Жыл бұрын

@@Universal.. interesting if true.

@d.n5287

Жыл бұрын

Agamemnon: Odysseus, are we the baddies?

@sonofcronos7831

Жыл бұрын

the mycenaeans/acheans where always the villains of the trojan war (altrough Troy was not good either)

I suggest you do a History Summarised for Thessaly, because being a Thessalian, it is extremely difficult to get any detailed information about my region's history and I walk by an ancient theatre every day knowing almost nothing about it.

@mylesjude233

Жыл бұрын

Sounds like a cool video idea.

@grahamstrickland3040

Жыл бұрын

Agreed.

@Universal..

Жыл бұрын

Forgotten historical fact 📜 = The first inhabitants of Greece were the Pelasgians (according to the ancient authors). - Therefore, the ancestors of the present Albanians, the Pelasgians, lived during the prehistoric periods in most of the then known world, developing a very important civilization and building works of exceptional value". Source📜 : Great Greek Encyclopedia (Athens, volume. XIX p.873) - "Pelasgians, very ancient people living during the prehistoric period in Greece, in the Archipelago, on the coasts of Asia Minor and Italy. It is generally considered that the ancient Illyrians, Thracians, Phrygians, Lydians, Etruscans, Epirotes (...) and Albanians of today are the main branches of the Pelasgians". Source 📜: Petit journal Larousse (Paris, 1950, p.1599)

@ihateithere526

Жыл бұрын

@@Universal.. Pelasgian is a name given to all pre indo European inhabitants of the southern balkans. Greeks, being a mix of pre indo Europeans and indo European invaders, are just as much descended from pelasgians as Albanians are

@jasonreed7522

Жыл бұрын

You might have better luck reaching out to you local historical society about it. (I'm assuming someone owns the theater and that they are willing to share its history. In the USA lots of places have historical society's dedicated to preserving local history even if our history is barely over 250yrs at most and then becomes Native American history.)

I feel like we need to call out that Schliemann excavated using dynamite and destroyed centuries of strata that we can no longer study with modern methods.

@joshuahunt3032

Жыл бұрын

I’m surprised schliemann wasn’t fucking executed for that shite. I legitimately think he didn’t dig up anything genuine because of his blatant disregard for archeological procedure.

@cockathiel5319

Жыл бұрын

And also that he didn’t discover it. Locals had known where it was the whole time, and other archeologists were already excavating it. Not only that, but his “follow Homer’s directions” thing actually lead him to the wrong place entirely! He only figured out where it was by someone else telling him.

@MM-vs2et

Жыл бұрын

Yeah but the standards of archaeology at the time were pretty low

These palace maps make me tempted to repurpose them as DND megadungeons. So fun to find a real-world ancient structure that is actually so vast and elaborate.

@kahorere

Жыл бұрын

Please do! It works our great! Similarly sometimes if you o to a museum you get a booklet with a map layout just beggigng to be repurposed as a dungeon

@profezzordarke4362

Жыл бұрын

Dude, the Labyrinth of the Minotaur is a Minoan Palace. Of course it is a Dungeon. Make the big threat the Roaming Minotaur and you get a full themed adventure.

@Universal..

Жыл бұрын

Forgotten historical fact 📜 = The first inhabitants of Greece were the Pelasgians (according to the ancient authors). - Therefore, the ancestors of the present Albanians, the Pelasgians, lived during the prehistoric periods in most of the then known world, developing a very important civilization and building works of exceptional value". Source📜 : Great Greek Encyclopedia (Athens, volume. XIX p.873) - "Pelasgians, very ancient people living during the prehistoric period in Greece, in the Archipelago, on the coasts of Asia Minor and Italy. It is generally considered that the ancient Illyrians, Thracians, Phrygians, Lydians, Etruscans, Epirotes (...) and Albanians of today are the main branches of the Pelasgians". Source 📜: Petit journal Larousse (Paris, 1950, p.1599)

@madmanvarietyshow9605

Жыл бұрын

YEEEEEESSSS DO IT

@jlokison

Жыл бұрын

Several underground cities exist in the middle east that also offer good ideas for D&D dungeons or underground settlements for subterranean races, such as Derinkuyu.

*1870's Historians:* Did you ever hear the Tragedy of the Collapse of the Troy? I thought not, it's not a story anyone but Homer would tell you. It's a classical legend.

@Corbomite_Meatballs

Жыл бұрын

Hey, Ben...there's this little girl asking about you at some cantina in Mos Eisley...

@shinsenshogun900

Жыл бұрын

Do you wanna have some death-sticks?

@ariahazelwood3842

Жыл бұрын

GENERAL KENOBI *lightsabers buzz and whirl menacingly*

You know- The idea that the Trojan war was the catalyst which caused the entire collapse of the Mycenaean Aegean- which spiraled out of control to also cause the collapse of the rest of the bronze age Med. is actually my new favorite interpretation of this widely unknown period of history- and it seems to me to be one of the best in regards to making sense as well, it has all the most common reasons for empire/civilizational collapse along with a lot of loosely fitting but great evidence to back it up- good work Blue, Also I love the idea that the Odyssey/Illiad are the distant echoes of the actual historical fact which caused untold suffering, poverty and what not for hundreds of years- kept alive by the people reminiscing about how their ancestors caused the collapse of civilization- but they were totally badass heroes who went out with a bang to do it- totally epic, as it should be.

@WelcomeToDERPLAND

Жыл бұрын

@@Universal.. The modern Albanian people likely have next to zero genetic connection whatsoever to pre-Mycenean Illyrians.

@VashdaCrash

Жыл бұрын

@@WelcomeToDERPLAND He's spamming that response in other comments for some reason. Idk what his deal is.

@Archgeek0

Жыл бұрын

@@VashdaCrash He's probably a robot. Report and ignore.

@John_Weiss

Жыл бұрын

@@Archgeek0 Agreed. I'm going through as many comments as I can now and reporting them as either Spam or Misinformation.

@sync9847

Жыл бұрын

@@Universal.. Pelasgians were a Pre-Indo-European people group that had no relation whatsoever with the (very much Indo-European) Illyrian people (who are the ancestors of modern Albanians). If anything they would be related to the Etruscans.

I really did not expect this video to end with the thesis of "The aggression of the Mycaneans in the Trojan War led to the entire Bronze Age collapse" but you know what, I'm absolutely here for it

@doubleoof7907

Жыл бұрын

@@Universal.. don’t care

“a town partly destroyed by fire and deserted in haste." Here, sometime around or after 1200 BCE, "loose objects were left abandoned in the courtyards and valuables were hidden in the ground. Bronze arrowheads - one of them found stuck in the side of a building - and numerous lead sling bullets scattered all over the place are eloquent proof of war.” ― Eric H. Cline,

@Universal..

Жыл бұрын

Forgotten historical fact 📜 = The first inhabitants of Greece were the Pelasgians (according to the ancient authors). - Therefore, the ancestors of the present Albanians, the Pelasgians, lived during the prehistoric periods in most of the then known world, developing a very important civilization and building works of exceptional value". Source📜 : Great Greek Encyclopedia (Athens, volume. XIX p.873) - "Pelasgians, very ancient people living during the prehistoric period in Greece, in the Archipelago, on the coasts of Asia Minor and Italy. It is generally considered that the ancient Illyrians, Thracians, Phrygians, Lydians, Etruscans, Epirotes (...) and Albanians of today are the main branches of the Pelasgians". Source 📜: Petit journal Larousse (Paris, 1950, p.1599)

@sealeo5772

Жыл бұрын

@@Universal.. What is it with Balkan nationalists and coming up with simultaneously the most outlandish and pointless explanations for why they are the master race?

@theorider6624

Жыл бұрын

@Lilith does stuff He was genuinely one of the best professors I have ever had

@concept5631

6 ай бұрын

​@@sealeo5772 Weren't the ancestors of slavs deep in the plains of Central Asia... a thousand years before Bronze Age Greece?

@youwase

4 күн бұрын

@@concept5631 They are albanian "bots" and they have prescripted paragraphs. Both FYROM and Albania are paying "bots" to do propaganda online and pull off the albanian minority/historic land claims. Youll find them on 100% of the history videos that include hellenic history in any way. They type always the same way also with 1 space between every sentence.

Certainly explains why Greek mythology all seems to _end_ with the Trojan war.

@Punaparta

Жыл бұрын

@@Universal.. "In the last ten years, a great number of books and articles dedicated to Pelasgians have been published in Albania, mostly by amateur historians and linguists. These books not only question the official discourse on the Illyrian origin of Albanians inherited from the socialist era. They also question the relationship of Albanians with Greeks, both in ancient times and in the present. Considering the fact that a significant number of those authors originate from southern Albania and that their books are widely read and appreciated in this Albanian borderland, this article argues that the recent success of Pelasgic theories can be partially explained by the new uses of the border in the post-1991 context and by the state of relations between Albanians and Greeks as experienced at the local level. Imagining the Pelasgians as prestigious ancestors appears as an answer to feelings of inequality and marginality related to new practices of the border." "In both cases the reference to an ancient past aims at producing a contrast with the present situation: in Pelasgic times, there were no Christians and Muslims, Greeks and Albanians spoke the same language and the latter were more „civilised‟ than the former, while today one has to be Christian or Muslim, to speak Albanian or Greek, and Albanians are perceived by everyone, and especially by Greeks, as an uncivilised people." "Pelasgians are known by ancient Greek historians as the first inhabitants of Greece who were later replaced by Hellenes. In ancient Greek visions of the past, they appeared as the autochthonous population par excellence. For this reason, they were later considered as convenient ancestors by modern nations in search for priority and autochthony. In the 19th century, several attempts were made, mainly by German scholars whose work rapidly inspired Greek nationalist writers and historians, to link classical Greeks with Pelasgians in a genealogical conception of history." "German and Greek scholars were not the only ones to consider Pelasgians as valuable ancestors. At the beginning of the 19th century, another theory appeared, stating that Albanians were direct descendants of Pelasgians and were, as such, the most ancient and most autochthonous population living in Europe. It first appeared outside Albania, among foreign scholars and Italo-Albanian communities of southern Italy. All these attempts were inspired by the romantic conception of the nation which was common all over Europe at the time and had clearly a political motivation at a time when Ottoman rule was retreating from the Balkans, leaving space for territorial claims by new nation-states. As Noel Malcolm puts it, „by identifying with Pelasgians, Albanians could claim that they were present in their Balkan homeland not only before the “barbarian” invaders of late Roman times (such as the Slavs), not only before the Romans themselves, but also, even more importantly, before the Greeks‟." "Recent publications on the Pelasgians, though often presented as innovative, generally rely on 19th century Pelasgic theories which they contribute to revitalise. Direct references to the 19th century authors are however rare, as if the negative image that was imposed on them in the socialist period was still devaluating their work. In this context, the relations between the old Pelasgic theories and the new ones rely on two kinds of intermediaries: the first one consists of marginal and little known studies conducted in the aftermath of the Second World War by authors who had studied outside Albania before the war; the second one consists of the translation of books published in foreign languages at various time." "According to d'Angély, the Albanians are the descendants of the most ancient population of Europe, the Pelasgians. They are, however, not the only ones to descend from the Pelasgians; all Europeans are in a way descending from this primitive population which the author identifies with the „white race‟ through an etymology of their name, which he interprets as meaning „born white‟. Albanians are nevertheless the most authentic heirs of the Pelasgians, as they have not been mixed with other populations, unlike Greeks, who have been in contact with Semitic peoples. Actually, according to d‟Angély, there is no such thing as a Greek nation or even Greek people. Those who called themselves Hellenes in ancient times were a kind of Pelasgian elite who imposed a written and official form of the language on the rest of the population. A parallel is thus drawn between ancient and modern times, during which Greeks attempted to impose their language on illiterate Orthodox Christians of the Ottoman Empire. The whole book is written in condemnation of the present situation, in which everything Greek is valued while everything Albanian is ignored or denigrated." "In the Albanian context of the 1990s and 2000s, the book is read as proving the anteriority of Albanians not only in Albania but also in Greece; it serves mainly the rehabilitation of Albanians as an antique and autochthonous population in the Balkans. These ideas legitimise the presence of Albanians in Greece and give them a decisive role in the development of ancient Greek civilisation and later on the creation of the modern Greek state, in contrast to the general negative image of Albanians in contemporary Greek society. They also reverse the unequal relation between the migrants and the host country, making the former the heirs of an autochthonous and civilised population from whom the latter owes everything that makes their superiority in the present day." "It should be noted that the Illyrian thesis is still supported by Albanian scholars as the only scientifically grounded theory. Indeed, the Pelasgic „theories‟ do not resist any critical assessment based on historical, archaeological or linguistic evidence and they are strongly criticised by many professional historians and linguists, for whom the main issue is still the documentation of Illyrian-Albanian continuity. They are however very popular. What is at stake is not scientific knowledge: one of the implications of the Pelasgic theories is to link, from the very beginning, Albanians and Greeks. They formulate an alternative myth of origin, which can be seen as a response to the exclusion felt by Albanians in Greece." "The book opens with a strong critic of the collective volume History of Albania edited by the Academy of sciences of Albania. According to Kokalari (born in 1924 in Gjirokastër), historical research on the origin of Albanians should serve the defence of the nation against its enemies, namely Serbs and Greeks. The latter are especially dangerous as their claims on southern Albania are legitimised by Albanian historians who accept the common view of the anteriority and superiority of Greek civilisation all over the Balkans. By doing so, those historians allow Greeks to assert that everything civilised in ancient Albania originated from Greece. On the contrary, Kokalari argues, most of what is known as ancient Greek civilisation, inclusive the Olympic Games, was borrowed from the Pelasgians." "The reception of Albanian migrants in Greek society is felt as extremely humiliating and frustrating, due to the negative stereotypes attached to Albanians in Greece, which make them the „pre-eminent representative of criminal behaviour‟, the „embodiment of poverty and backwardness‟ and the „traditional enemy of Greekness‟ (Kapllani and Mai 2005: 164-165). Such stereotypes are especially rejected by southern Albanians from the borderland, who, within the context of the Albanian nation, perceive themselves as more civilised and developed than northerners. In this context, another factor of revitalisation of Pelasgic theories is the fear that Greek claims on Northern Epirus might still be an actual threat on Albanian territory and, beyond, on Albanian identity. The exacerbation of feelings of inferiority and threat seem to make the border area an ideal breeding ground for the Pelasgic myth of origin." "The re-arranging of ethnic and national boundaries between Greeks and Albanians through the myth of Pelasgic origin can be seen as an answer, on the imaginary level, to the difficult crossing of the actual international border through the narrow gate of legal migration and to the economic and cultural penetration of Greece in Albania. This response to exclusion is itself both inclusive and exclusive: the Pelasgians are the ancestors of all Europeans, but only Albanians are their direct and authentic descendants and, as such, can claim for a kind of absolute autochthony in Europe. By claiming Pelasgic ancestry, supporters of these ideas are transforming marginality - Albanians are on the margins of Europe - into centrality and superiority - they are more European than anyone else." "The return of the Pelasgians might be an illustration of a well-known paradox in the anthropology of globalisation: faced with the difficulties induced by modernity, local people participate in the symbolic reconstruction of community through imagination and reversion to tradition and ancient past. We are thus reminded that representations reflect the reality of social relations and that imagination plays a part in the reproduction of society through the use of symbols. Through the Pelasgic issue, we can see how an academic debate makes use of symbols and articulate with the geopolitical and economic relations between Europe and its margins, between Europe and its immediate neighbours." Source: Pelasgic Encounters in the Greek-Albanian Borderland. Border Dynamics and Reversion to Ancient Past in Southern Albania, Gilles de Rapper, 2009.

@catherine.marial

Жыл бұрын

There are plenty of myths that take place after the war- the Odyssey, the Oresteia, Hecuba, the Aeneid, and more

@Punaparta

Жыл бұрын

@@catherine.marial You do realise that all the ones you mentioned take place pretty much immediately after the war and are all about the surviving heroes dealing with the consequences of it?

@catherine.marial

Жыл бұрын

@@Punaparta They all still take place after the war. And it’s difficult to pinpoint when a myth takes place given that 90% of stories don’t specify where they fit in the timeline

@Universal..

Жыл бұрын

@@Punaparta However there are renowned professional historians-linguists who qualify the Albanians as the direct descendants of the Pelasgians. As for example Mathieu Aref who has been acclaimed by many universities. Example: Here is what Dominique BRIQUEL 🇫🇷 (professor at the University of Paris - Sorbonne) says about Mathieu AREF's book: - " This book will surprise more than one reader. It does not hesitate to take the opposite view of what seems to be seems to be an established truth. The place of the Greeks in the history of the Balkan peninsula, which seems to go of course and that we are accustomed to make go up, without asking us questions, to the Mycenaean period and even beyond, and that we pose almost naturally as having been the essential factor of the history of this region, would it have been overvalued? Dependent in our turn, after centuries of classical culture, of the image that the Hellenes gave themselves of their past, would we have of their past, would we have forgotten, following them, that other cultures, which were not Greek, had existed in this part of Europe, and could have contributed to give it the physiognomy which is his, precisely at the time when the "Greek miracle" makes appear a civilization there civilization of which we are still, on many points, the heirs? An American researcher some time ago, had already launched out in such an iconoclastic step: that was worth to, The black Athena, where the white goddess with the eyes pers, the goddess of protector of Athens, suddenly acquired an African past, and where Hellenism was suddenly indebted to was suddenly indebted of whole parts of its civilization to Egypt or Phoenicia. In this work, Mathieu Aref explores another direction, and envisages another world to which that of the Greeks owes a not inconsiderable part of what it was: but it is not necessary to look for it this time. But this time we should not look for it outside, across the seas. It would have been simply there in the Balkans, before the Greeks, and these, at their arrival, would only have had to penetrate what it offered them. By defending this vision of the oldest past of Greece, Mathieu Aref does, at the bottom the Greeks, or at least the most perceptive of them, had already said a long time ago. Of course, it was quite comfortable for them, like the Athenians of the classical age, to say that they were that they had always been there, that they were natives, in the first sense of the term, i.e. descended of the term, that is to say descending from ancestors who had been born, in times immemorial, of the soil, soil of Attica, in the manner of the plants that its fertile ground made germinate there. But those who came out of these complacent mythical representations, as the historian Herodotus, knew that the history of the past of the region had not been this linear and simplistic march which, starting from the origins, led without solution of continuity to their contemporaries. One evoked, for Athens, but also for many other places, an ancient population, former to the current inhabitants, which was that of the Pelasgians. And those who reflected on the identity of these Pelasgians were well forced to recognize that they were not Greeks, that they could not be Greeks. At the end of a tight reasoning on the language which they could speak, Herodotus concludes that they were barbarians, i.e. exactly, according to the first direction of the concept, which is linguistic, that they spoke an idiom other than Greek. But it was also to recognize that these barbarians, in whom they tended to see only savages deprived of any civilization, had lived on their ground, and had been able to influence them and to provide them with not negligible elements of their own culture. One understands that certain Greeks could tax Herodotus of treachery towards Hellenism, denouncing his malignity - which will be the subject of a small treatise by Plutarch-, which pushed him to recognize qualities with the barbarians and by there, according to them, to depreciate his compatriots. But Herodotus was obviously right: the Greeks had not been the first on their ground and, if they had had predecessors, it is quite obvious that they were indebted to them an important part of their civilization. The researches of the linguists of our time on Greek linguists of our time on Greek - to quote only them - show it amply: the Greek language, this language which defined Hellenes vis-a-vis the barbarian, includes many terms which are not Greek, which one defined as pre-Hellenic and which, for example, designate a whole flora and a Mediterranean fauna that the first Greeks discovered while arriving on the ground of Hellade. This can be pre-Indo-European terms, referring to what can be considered as an ancient substratum, peoples established in the region before the Indo-European languages - as the Greek like Greek - started to spread there. But they can also be words that can be explained by Indo-European, but not belonging to the Greek vocabulary and not presenting the phonetic treatments expected in this language. And it is precisely here that we find these famous Pelasgians of which the tradition speaks: because one wanted sometimes, in a step which is not unfounded to designate by the term of Pelasgian this linguistic stratum, Indo-European but not Greek and which can thus refer to populations established in these places, which would have already used a language of Indo-European type but which would not have been Hellenes. ... Part 2 will be at the bottom of this trade (I can't put all the text in the same comment because it's too long for KZread)

I’m willing to bet this is one of Blue’s saddest moments in history, somewhere around his top 5 next to the fall of Rome and the Byzantine Empire. Me too… :(

@Riverbed_Dreaming

Жыл бұрын

#1 is probably the destruction of the library of Alexandria

@crabbus4117

Жыл бұрын

@@Riverbed_Dreaming I’d put that at 2. He always is depressed about fall of Rome, so I assume it’s #1.

@imawaffle148

Жыл бұрын

@@Riverbed_Dreaming didn't blue admit to destroying the library in an april fools video?

@jasonreed7522

Жыл бұрын

@@Riverbed_Dreaming the destruction of that library is basically always in everyone's top 3, its certainly my #1 for pre renaissance history. (Post Renaissance #1 for me is the Trail of Tears because the Cherokee won in the supreme court and still got evicted so its the total failure of rule of law but also just generally all the downsides of colonialism)

@Universal..

Жыл бұрын

Forgotten historical fact 📜 = The first inhabitants of Greece were the Pelasgians (according to the ancient authors). - Therefore, the ancestors of the present Albanians, the Pelasgians, lived during the prehistoric periods in most of the then known world, developing a very important civilization and building works of exceptional value". Source📜 : Great Greek Encyclopedia (Athens, volume. XIX p.873) - "Pelasgians, very ancient people living during the prehistoric period in Greece, in the Archipelago, on the coasts of Asia Minor and Italy. It is generally considered that the ancient Illyrians, Thracians, Phrygians, Lydians, Etruscans, Epirotes (...) and Albanians of today are the main branches of the Pelasgians". Source 📜: Petit journal Larousse (Paris, 1950, p.1599)

"The Sea Peoples" being itinerant Mycenaeans is an angle I've never heard about the BA Collapse until now...it makes sense too.

*fistfights Schliemann because of all the dynamite and thievery* It's probably also worth noting that Odysseus kills basically the entire noble population of Ithica was fits in well with a theme of all the nobles dying because of civilisational collapse

@Mewhenifinalltgetallthebugs

Жыл бұрын

Idk if there's a history student out there that doesn't wanna fist fight Schliemann

@adambielen8996

Жыл бұрын

@@Mewhenifinalltgetallthebugs I'll take the bat wit the nails please.

@darkflame9410

Жыл бұрын

Odysseus' slaughter of the nobles and near-slaughter of the Noble's families afterwards could also be indicative of their having been a series of civil wars / succession crises as a result of the leadership extinction during the Trojan War. The story of Telemachus' struggles with the suitors could be allegory (or possibly even a distorted cultural memory) of a young Mycenaean Prince having to struggle to keep his throne from competitors and ultimately having to seek outside aid to win against superior odds in a civil war (the suitors refusal to leave could represent an occupying army).

@kavky

Жыл бұрын

@@Universal.. This isn't the first comment you reply to with the exact same irrelevant information. The more you spam this comment the more annoying it gets.

@nikolajzachary1081

Жыл бұрын

I massively like the theory that the Odyssey is basically a sort of mythicised justification/explanation of the raiding of the sea-peoples (read Mycenaean pirates) post-Troy, and that when they finally finished raiding and fighting everywhere else they came back and slew owners of various palaces back in their homeland before settling down to a new existence in a completely wrecked mediterranean. Could also be some explanation of why Etruscans had a myth that their civilisation was founded by Odysseus: some of the roaming mycenaeans settled on the Italian peninsula. Also that the myths of the lands of the giants that Odysseus ran from are inspired by giant sculptures created by the Nuragic civilisation on Sardinia.

Let’s not forget how Schliemann nearly blew up a lot of Troy with dynamite. He’s the Sigmund Freud of Archaeology.

@concept5631

6 ай бұрын

*_Oh God_*

I'm equal parts fascinated any annoyed with Mycenaean Greece, honestly, it might border on a longer-term obsession for me. There's this entire even more ancient Greece! So much to possibly discover! So much history! But also, all intransparent to us because lost language. Ugh.

@Universal..

Жыл бұрын

Forgotten historical fact 📜 = The first inhabitants of Greece were the Pelasgians (according to the ancient authors). - Therefore, the ancestors of the present Albanians, the Pelasgians, lived during the prehistoric periods in most of the then known world, developing a very important civilization and building works of exceptional value". Source📜 : Great Greek Encyclopedia (Athens, volume. XIX p.873) - "Pelasgians, very ancient people living during the prehistoric period in Greece, in the Archipelago, on the coasts of Asia Minor and Italy. It is generally considered that the ancient Illyrians, Thracians, Phrygians, Lydians, Etruscans, Epirotes (...) and Albanians of today are the main branches of the Pelasgians". Source 📜: Petit journal Larousse (Paris, 1950, p.1599)

@jasonisbored6679

Жыл бұрын

*opaque

@speedwagon1824

Жыл бұрын

@@Universal.. Albanians are indo Europeans so that's probably not true

@Universal..

Жыл бұрын

@@speedwagon1824 Indo-Europeanism, not everyone agrees ... Indo-Europeanism was created in the 19th century, at the end of the 19th century, it is a completely new science (on the thesis of the pelasges, Mathieu Aref does not speak of Indo-Europeanism at all) etc. ... the history of the pre-indo-European, Indo-European etc ... all that, it is practically sementism. Then, Indo-Europeanism is questioned by many scholars ... Example: Renfrew says that Indo-Europeanism should be replaced by "Europeanism" instead (which means that there were indigenous populations in Europe and not hypothetical invasions). Sources 📜 : Archaeology and Language : The Puzzle of the Indo-European Origins. The problem is from there and it is there that there have been difficulties and it is there that there have been misunderstandings and it is there that there have been errors... In fact the mother tongue comes to us from the Pelasgians, because the Pelasgians created a lot of tribes (Illyrians, Thracians, Etruscans, Phrygians, Dacians, Ligurians etc...) And Alexander the Great (Pelasgians = Thraco-Illyrian) influenced culturally Asia (until India), so it is not surprising to find links... Albanians are the Principal Pelasgians nation because they have everything (language, ethnicity, culture etc...) unlike other nations... Even the Pelasgians wore their famous hats the Pileus. source 📜 : Encyclopædia Universalis, édition 1968. p. 390 besides the Albanians ( descendants of the Pelasgians ) still wear it " le Plis " ! source 📜 : Florindo Di Monaco, Un mondo di acconciature: itinerario alla scoperta di centomila idee e misteri che vengono quotidianamente al pettine, Edizioni scientifiche italiane, 1999, 354 p. Pileus 📜 / Plis 🇦🇱

@Universal..

Жыл бұрын

@@speedwagon1824 Anthropology shows us the truth. ( Albanians are Pelasgians = Illyrians, Thracians, etc ... = today Albanians ) Anthropology. The current Albanians have the particularity of having the highest cephalic index (85 to 90) in Europe (Hyperbrachycephaly/round head) and a pronounced planoccipitalia (flattening of the posterior and inferior wall of the skull). Ripley, in his classification system, considered the shape of the head as the most reliable index in the racial diagnosis. Jacque and Morgan (🇫🇷) affirms source : (l'humanité archéologique, Paris 1921📜): "The oldest archaeological documents that we have about these settlers lead us to think that their migration was made by coming from continental Europe, and that, during the fourth millennium before our era. Then would have intervened the Pelasgians, bringing with them the knowledge of the metal. While occupying the European Helladia, these tribes would have advanced until the Islands and the Asian territories ... the other, the most recent, which would have been the author of the Mycenaean culture, and would be related to the tribes, which in these times, inhabited Thrace and the banks of the Danube . These settlers would not be Hellenes properly speaking, but Thraco-Phrygians ". This brachycephaly is, also, celke of the mountain dwellers " said to " round head " of the 5th or 4th millenium which populated, partly, the Near and Middle East such as Sumerians (not semitic people), Hittites, Elamites. This characteristic is confirmed by the archaeological excavations carried out in the oldest necropolises discovered in a very vast geographical space going from the High Danube to Asia Minor while passing by the Balkans and particularly the regions populated, currently, by populations of Pelasgians stock (Albanian ethnic group). To finish I make notice that, C.H and C.B hawes ( Crete, the forerunner of Greece, London 1909 📜), have established marked anaologies between Albanian skulls. This discovery corroborates, once more, the Pelasgians-Illyrians origin of the populations, known as Dorian, originating in the North of Greece whereas, only, their leaders or kings, minority in the country (king of Sparta Agis IV, in the IIIrd s before JC, affirmed that there were three periecles for a Spartan), were of Semito-Egyptian origin as the many arguments prove it.

Someday--and I really can't believe they haven't done it yet--Red and Blue need to tag team a four hour lecture on Ancient Greece's mytho-historic narrative. Unless they've already done that for a podcast I haven't seen. (Also, side-note, I'd really love it if Red would release a whole album of acoustic song covers someday, I would literally buy a copy for every single person I like.)

Hmm, this rings a bell. If memory serves this is one of the hypothesised origins of the sea peoples, one of my favourite historical mysteries. Accounts often read more like a horror narrative than real world attempts at conquest.

@Yora21

Жыл бұрын

Sardinians are also suspected to have been involved. It seems very likely that the whole Mediterranean was in chaos and people got on their boats to flee east, hoping to find some place not quite as awful.

@phantasosxgames8488

Жыл бұрын

@@Yora21 yep , basically the Mediterranean was so chaotic , that any civilization able to make a boat ended up warmongering each other to the point of collapse.

@Archgeek0

Жыл бұрын

HEH, so it turns out the real Sea Peoples were the Greeks we made along the way. XD

@shinsenshogun900

Жыл бұрын

Everybody out there seeking a promising piece of land, peace, quiet, and bread

@yllejord

Жыл бұрын

"Acheans" literally translates to "sea people".

You never really think of how much a country transforms over time.

@profezzordarke4362

Жыл бұрын

*Me, a German who's culutural identity is formed by strife for being europes Main-Battleground since the beginning of recorded time* Sure, you never do...

@Universal..

Жыл бұрын

Forgotten historical fact 📜 = The first inhabitants of Greece were the Pelasgians (according to the ancient authors). - Therefore, the ancestors of the present Albanians, the Pelasgians, lived during the prehistoric periods in most of the then known world, developing a very important civilization and building works of exceptional value". Source📜 : Great Greek Encyclopedia (Athens, volume. XIX p.873) - "Pelasgians, very ancient people living during the prehistoric period in Greece, in the Archipelago, on the coasts of Asia Minor and Italy. It is generally considered that the ancient Illyrians, Thracians, Phrygians, Lydians, Etruscans, Epirotes (...) and Albanians of today are the main branches of the Pelasgians". Source 📜: Petit journal Larousse (Paris, 1950, p.1599)

@Robot_Eva

Жыл бұрын

Topical

@vanmars5718

Жыл бұрын

@@Universal.. Oh god mercy. Again? Here also? What the heck with this albanian obsession?

@vanmars5718

Жыл бұрын

@@Universal.. No there's no such a thing in any encyclopedia dude. Moreover Albanians are speaking Indo European much like Greeks....meaning...they came from the same group around the same period (if Albanians are there for such long period) while the mythical Pelasgians were the people before the indo European migration. Are u get it? It's too complicated? Albanians living in a totally different geographic place, speaking an Indo European language claiming to be descended by a non indo European people of mythical existence from another geographic place is beyond crazy, nonsensical and sooooo f**d up nationalistic because you are albanian and the only thing modern albanians dream off is about nationalism against their neighbors. Cheers

Who would've thought that by digging where we read Troy is, we actually found Troy. A true mistery

@Universal..

Жыл бұрын

Forgotten historical fact 📜 = The first inhabitants of Greece were the Pelasgians (according to the ancient authors). - Therefore, the ancestors of the present Albanians, the Pelasgians, lived during the prehistoric periods in most of the then known world, developing a very important civilization and building works of exceptional value". Source📜 : Great Greek Encyclopedia (Athens, volume. XIX p.873) - "Pelasgians, very ancient people living during the prehistoric period in Greece, in the Archipelago, on the coasts of Asia Minor and Italy. It is generally considered that the ancient Illyrians, Thracians, Phrygians, Lydians, Etruscans, Epirotes (...) and Albanians of today are the main branches of the Pelasgians". Source 📜: Petit journal Larousse (Paris, 1950, p.1599)

@littlewinge9368

Жыл бұрын

Well, thing is the locals already knew where Troy was. It wasn't really hidden or anything

@aaroncabatingan5238

Жыл бұрын

@@littlewinge9368 I don't think the locals truly understood what Troy was.

@olbiomoiros

Жыл бұрын

@@aaroncabatingan5238 yeah I’d say so too. They were aware of the mount, definitely not it being the renowned Ilion.

@actinium2754

Жыл бұрын

It's due to a bad habit among historians to disregard what seems fantastical and only accept what is "realistic" within their circles. I'm pretty sure if we stopped treating our ancestors as wacky superstitious lunatics and more like founts of knowledge we'd be finding more of our past than we do.

Schliemann: Hey look guys, I found Troy! Archeologists: Amazing! How did you find it? Schliemann: With dynamite! Archeologists: Wait... what?

It was neat to say "I've been there" to some of those Mycenaean ruins. I need to visit Greece again at some point, especially as it's not that far from me (I'm European).

@Universal..

Жыл бұрын

Forgotten historical fact 📜 = The first inhabitants of Greece were the Pelasgians (according to the ancient authors). - Therefore, the ancestors of the present Albanians, the Pelasgians, lived during the prehistoric periods in most of the then known world, developing a very important civilization and building works of exceptional value". Source📜 : Great Greek Encyclopedia (Athens, volume. XIX p.873) - "Pelasgians, very ancient people living during the prehistoric period in Greece, in the Archipelago, on the coasts of Asia Minor and Italy. It is generally considered that the ancient Illyrians, Thracians, Phrygians, Lydians, Etruscans, Epirotes (...) and Albanians of today are the main branches of the Pelasgians". Source 📜: Petit journal Larousse (Paris, 1950, p.1599)

@katelawyer3689

Жыл бұрын

@@Universal.. can you stop you Albanian nationalist

The mention of Mycenaean pottery in Palestine brings to mind the Philistines from the Bible. David and Goliath supposedly happened in the 11th century BC, just a few generations after the "broad migration of Greeks and others fleeing the wreckage of the Aegean for safer ground" mentioned in the video. And the character of Goliath does seem like someone who would have fit right in amongst the heroes of the Iliad. Always shouting challenges at one another, always looking to win glory through honourable single combat with the strongest man on the other side.

@fyeahusa

Жыл бұрын

He was probably at least in part referring to the Philistines here. The Philistines are associated with the Peleset found in Egyptian records, one of the Sea Peoples and are likely to have originated in the Aegean. Though Aegean style pottery (that being Mycenean, Cycladean, etc.,), is found all along the eastern Mediterreanean coast at this time, though evidence in Philistine burials and other archaeological evidence seems to reinforce that at least the founding groups came from the Aegean.

@sonofcronos7831

Жыл бұрын

In the bible it says that the giants were expelled from the east, until they settled in the philistine cities. So Golias was bigger than other people because he descended from the middle eastern giants, but yeah the philistines were related to the greeks in some form.

As someone who has researched the archaeological cites themselves it's really interesting to hear how these cites connected in to each other in the broader world and the history and speculation of what even happened to them

@profezzordarke4362

Жыл бұрын

Sites or citations?

@dawg204

Жыл бұрын

anashshshjssjsjeuwiiwjwbsdbxjxidudjjd

@Universal..

Жыл бұрын

Forgotten historical fact 📜 = The first inhabitants of Greece were the Pelasgians (according to the ancient authors). - Therefore, the ancestors of the present Albanians, the Pelasgians, lived during the prehistoric periods in most of the then known world, developing a very important civilization and building works of exceptional value". Source📜 : Great Greek Encyclopedia (Athens, volume. XIX p.873) - "Pelasgians, very ancient people living during the prehistoric period in Greece, in the Archipelago, on the coasts of Asia Minor and Italy. It is generally considered that the ancient Illyrians, Thracians, Phrygians, Lydians, Etruscans, Epirotes (...) and Albanians of today are the main branches of the Pelasgians". Source 📜: Petit journal Larousse (Paris, 1950, p.1599)

@concept5631

6 ай бұрын

​@@Universal.. no

6:35 “Just a local prince with an enthusiasm for string and a forgetfulness about sail colors” *DAMMIT THESEUS*

The great thing about Mykenae is that you can just go there and visit the ruined palace. It's just a few hours from Athens. That full bronze armor is in a small museum in the next town just a few minutes away. I was surprised to find it there and not the national museum in Athens. (They got the gold mask, so I guess the armor was the compromise to have something neat for the local museum.)

@Universal..

Жыл бұрын

Forgotten historical fact 📜 = The first inhabitants of Greece were the Pelasgians (according to the ancient authors). - Therefore, the ancestors of the present Albanians, the Pelasgians, lived during the prehistoric periods in most of the then known world, developing a very important civilization and building works of exceptional value". Source📜 : Great Greek Encyclopedia (Athens, volume. XIX p.873) - "Pelasgians, very ancient people living during the prehistoric period in Greece, in the Archipelago, on the coasts of Asia Minor and Italy. It is generally considered that the ancient Illyrians, Thracians, Phrygians, Lydians, Etruscans, Epirotes (...) and Albanians of today are the main branches of the Pelasgians". Source 📜: Petit journal Larousse (Paris, 1950, p.1599)

@katelawyer3689

Жыл бұрын

@@Universal.. my man’s be a Albanian nationalist lol

@ariahazelwood3842

Жыл бұрын

I got to visit Mykenae and we all got to walk down into the cisterns which is equal parts impressive and terrifying

This episode ties in to the Hades and Persephone one very well. What with the whole expanding on Poseidon was likely the head god at some point thing. Also, very interesting with Mycenaean Greece. I always hear about the collapse but I’ve never stopped to wonder why that was. I think what you’ve presented is a very cool and plausible theory!

@CrimsonBlasphemy

Жыл бұрын

The archaeological record indicated an Eastward movement of people, as Blue notes near the end of video with the "sea people" hitting the Egypt end of the Mediterranean. What isn't clear is where the civilization "Power Break" (pool/billiards term) started. The usual assumptions I've seen is a shoulder shrug that some unknown group hit Mycenaeans from the West, which then shrapneled across the Aegean. This conveniently lets the Mycenaeans off the hook for being origin point.

@justinalicea1590

Жыл бұрын

Extra History has a video series on the Bronze Age Collapse where we get things from mysterious Sea People, to famine and disease and natural disasters, where large scale fortified cities are abandoned for mountain villages. So definitely give their series a watch, and while it doesn't have the myth supported theory Blue presented, it does give a larger scope on how the Bronze Age was run and more factors towards its collapse. Which is fair, as Blue was focused on the Greek side of the collapse while Extra History took a general view.

@Universal..

Жыл бұрын

Forgotten historical fact 📜 = The first inhabitants of Greece were the Pelasgians (according to the ancient authors). - Therefore, the ancestors of the present Albanians, the Pelasgians, lived during the prehistoric periods in most of the then known world, developing a very important civilization and building works of exceptional value". Source📜 : Great Greek Encyclopedia (Athens, volume. XIX p.873) - "Pelasgians, very ancient people living during the prehistoric period in Greece, in the Archipelago, on the coasts of Asia Minor and Italy. It is generally considered that the ancient Illyrians, Thracians, Phrygians, Lydians, Etruscans, Epirotes (...) and Albanians of today are the main branches of the Pelasgians". Source 📜: Petit journal Larousse (Paris, 1950, p.1599).

@syro33

Жыл бұрын

@@Universal.. don't spam dude. I dont know what you have against proto-Indo-European, but like... This isn't the place to debate that.

@shinsenshogun900

Жыл бұрын

Perhaps the oncoming Dorians were not happy with an earth god and suggested to partition his divinity into an additional two siblings and imported an Oriental romantic goddess of war

A hypothesis I learned years ago is that the Philistines from The Bible were actually Cretans or mainland Mycenaeans who fled to Canaan after the societal collapse following the Trojan War. I don't know how accurate it is, but it sounds cool. Like a nice crossover of Greek and Hebrew legend/mythology.

@justineberlein5916

Жыл бұрын

Similar hypothesis I like: *Some* of the Canaanites actually did travel down to Egypt for a few generations while a cultural revolution was happening, which later got expounded and mythologized during the Babylonian Exile into a national origin story

@Universal..

Жыл бұрын

Forgotten historical fact 📜 = The first inhabitants of Greece were the Pelasgians (according to the ancient authors). - Therefore, the ancestors of the present Albanians, the Pelasgians, lived during the prehistoric periods in most of the then known world, developing a very important civilization and building works of exceptional value". Source📜 : Great Greek Encyclopedia (Athens, volume. XIX p.873) - "Pelasgians, very ancient people living during the prehistoric period in Greece, in the Archipelago, on the coasts of Asia Minor and Italy. It is generally considered that the ancient Illyrians, Thracians, Phrygians, Lydians, Etruscans, Epirotes (...) and Albanians of today are the main branches of the Pelasgians". Source 📜: Petit journal Larousse (Paris, 1950, p.1599)

@Pheatan

Жыл бұрын

@@gellerthorvath4721 theyve been soamming this reply into nearly every comment since the video released. Its plague of unwanted information

@Liethen

Жыл бұрын

@@gellerthorvath4721 Probably an Albanian. Though the connection of Pelasgian = Peleset = Philistine is worth noting. If memory serves the egyptians resettled defeated Peleset in Canaan in the part where the Aegean Philistines would later be located.

@skylinelover9276

Жыл бұрын

@@gellerthorvath4721 Albanians is very funny haha, they claiming that the haplo group E is native of Balkan especially Albania, but in reality it's enter Balkan 8 thousand years ago and spread throughout Balkan. Not only Albania but also Greece, Bulgaria, Montenegro that's why this country has big E1B1B Haplo group

Interesting theory on why so many ancient cities were destroyed in such a short time. Or, counterpoint: Dragons. In this essay I will

@AegixDrakan

Жыл бұрын

In this essay you will...What? Where'd the essay go? ...Oh no did the dragons kill you before you could share your-

@merrittanimation7721

Жыл бұрын

Oh that explains why Cadmus had to kill one to found Thebes. Hey whats-

It might just be my existential fear, but something about there being an entire civilization of ancient-er Greeks and we all just thought it was a cool story that a blind bard came up with for a while is kinda concerning. Like imagine if there were smaller, remote groups of people that formed civilizations tens of thousands of years ago and we will never know about them because none of their stories or culture survived the test of time.

@artofthepossible7329

Жыл бұрын

Ever heard of the dark ages? Pretty much this.

@twistedtachyon5877

Жыл бұрын

@@artofthepossible7329 yup. A "dark age" is basically the term for when that happens to a big chunk of time/space. Smaller blips in the record don't even register!

"the Trojan war caused the bronze age collapse" is the wildest history fact I've heard in a long time

Time to share my pet Bronze Age Collapse theory: Step 0: Assume it began in Greece. Step 1: Some kind of crop failure in the region. Most major societal upheavals involve crop failure at some point, and there's some evidence for this during this time period. Step 2: Earthquake storms. We know that they happened around that time and I think they are extremely significant based on the fact that Poseidon, god of earthquakes, is demoted from head god in the classical era. I think people were pissed off at him because he would not be appeased by their offerings. Step 3: Overthrow of the wanaxes. Since the Bronze Age was dominated by command economies where the king would tell the people what to make, it compounded the suffering caused by the crop failures; being told by the king to keep making pottery and olive oil for export instead refocusing the workforce to alleviate the food shortage (nor having the time to rebuild your house from all those earthquakes) is going to piss you off. And well, if you're demoting your head god, you might as well over throw the kings too. I think the fact that classical Greece is filled with democratic or semi-democratic governments that mistrusted monarchy is extremely significant here. Step 4: Become the Sea Peoples. There's a lot of evidence to suggest that a large contingent of the sea peoples were Mycenaean in origin. I think some were refugees from the crises in Greece following crop failure, earthquake storms, and political/religious upheaval, some were basically just pirates raiding for money and food, but I also think some of them might have been more like French Revolutionaries spreading the ideas of "overthrow your kings cuz they're bastards." And since the rest of the Bronze Age world had also been going through crop failures and earthquakes, they found plenty of non-Greeks to flock to their banner and join the Sea Peoples.

@georgethompson1460

Жыл бұрын

I think what's more likely is a post rome styled migration period, tribes being kicked out of germany flood into roman lands that have grown weak due to a mixture of complex issues.

@zenogias01

Жыл бұрын

The Bronze Age Collapse was region-wide, with every area have its own local apocalypse at around the same time, and each one helping make their neighbor's collapse that much worse. There was a generalized drought across the entire Mediterranean world that would have lead to unrest, and we have letters from one ruler to another begging for grain to support this. Unrest requires troops to put dow, but also to defend from neighbors looking to grab your food to feed their people (and to their their food for yours so your people don't turn on you), leading to local fighting and, as mentioned in the video, massive spending across the world on armoes and fortification. It also leads to general internal division as local rulers vie for power at the first sign of weakness in the rulong dystany, not unlike orianha when there's blood in the water. Nations fall into civil war, and one of these was the Hittites who were not only a major power (and Troy's patron) but also guarded tin routes from the east - tin being necessary for good bronze. The Trojan War might have destabkizied the Hittites enough for a civil war to start, or the civil war might have left Troy exposed enough to make an invasion feasible. Either way, with the Hittite Empore crumbling a manor source of thin goes and with it the supply of weapons to the region and creating a spike in bronze prices (and thus vastly increasing the cost of weapons and armor and so armies). The fall of Troy likely helped as it would have left trade routes from the Black Sea undefended, so tin couldn't travel by sea or land (or much of anything else, for that matter). Written descriptions of the Trojan War make into into an international conflict with fighters from all over the known world, which suggests that it wasn't what started the Sea People raids put part of it - pirates and raiders from all over the region converging either to get a bite of the biggest prize in the world or take Troy's money to defend it, and lots of them dying in the process. In the aftermath, the Mycenaean pillar of the brinze age world topples into civil war, and a lot of civilians along with dispossesed warriors and kings flee overseas to find news homes amongst their badly destabilized nieghbors who can't really afford to defend themselves very well. They are joined by other, including Sardinians, probably dispossed Hittite vassals, and probably anyone with a sword and a ship, both toppling coastal kingdoms and wiping out the last vestiges of trade and international cooperation before the survivors set themselves up as petty kings and warlords of their own conquests or, on the case of Egypt, as paid mercenaries and vassals of a vastly-reduced Egyptian kingdom. And so the dark ages descend.

@darkflame9410

Жыл бұрын

This theory works well with the little historical data we actually have. I think if you replace your step 3 (and part of 4) with part of Blue's theory you'd have an even stronger theory. Namely instead of the general populace overthrowing the Wanaxes, have it be: 3.1: the wanaxes form an alliance and attack Troy to try and stabilize their respective economies (or at least their dwindling personal funds). 3.2: The fall of Troy results in the complete destabilization of trade between Anatolia and the Mycenean city-states, and the eradication of much of the warrior elite caste, including many of the wanaxes and their direct successors. 3.3: The resulting power-vacuum plunges the Mycenean City-States into a series of civil wars and succession crises (The battle against the suitors and later the suitors families in the Odyssey may be a distorted cultural memory of one such crisis). 4: Waves of people flee the collapsing societies eastward, originally possibly as refugees looking for new places to settle. The first waves of these "sea people" largely settle in the coastal regions of Asia Minor (such as the possible ancestors of the Philistines, who first appear in the Levant during the 12th century BC.) And displace some local populations. Later, over the next several centuries, the waves change from armed refugees to raiders plundering the coastline of Asia Minor, possibly being new wanaxes seeking to establish themselves and rebuild wealth/power bases in the ongoing civil wars, hence why several of the groups described in Egyptian records sound very Mycenaean. This results in the rapid destabilization of the already fragile Mesopotamian and North African Empires, resulting in more civil wars, famine, fighting, a complete loss of trade, and ultimately societal collapse. This seems to fit better with what we know is also happening in Mesopotamia at the time, which is that both pre-collapse and post-collapse monarchy remains the primary form of government, but the large-scale empires collapse in favor of smaller Kingdoms (The neo-Babylonians, the Philistines and other post-Canaanite groups, the Judaic kingdoms (or at least Israel since we have evidence of their existence in neo-Assyrian records)) with many made up of ethno-political groups not seen pre-collapse (or having intermingled with / taken over from pre-collapse groups.

@erraticonteuse

Жыл бұрын

@@darkflame9410 Yeah, I wrote this comment before I watched Blue's theory, but I agree they synthesize into an even stronger theory.

@lorefox201

Жыл бұрын

i wouldn't just assume that it begun in Greece to be honest we have pretty conclusive proof for instance that the shardana migrating out of Sardinia were involved, and that there was a volcanic eruption in northern Europe that partially submerged the island of Heligoland, the "island of amber" (electrum? is that Atlantis?) which might have caused harsher winters and crop failures in there for a while which would have caused migrations. Even the terramare culture in the po valley in Italy apparently got up and left at roughly some point near the bronze age collapse. Further we have evidence of multiple Indo-European migrations from the western steppe (the Egyptians recognized the schytian as older than them as civilization). So in short I think the mikeneans contributed to the bronze age collapse due to a long crisis caused by Dorians and (pre)Aegean migrating in their turf. Those would be relatives of the schytians and that would make building sturdy walls absolutely justifiable. The people at the time would have known the details, since after all they regularly navigated up to Whales to buy tin, so it's reasonable to suspect they had metchantile expeditions into the steppe and to Heligoland to get the "electrum": so they would be reasonably aware of the fact that a few natural disasters and unforeseen circumstances had lead to mass chain-displacement of people into the "rich" middle east where they hoped to find refuge and fought to obtain it when resisted. The later Greeks (the Dorians and the Aegeans) would reconstruct it as historical myths. As far as the central thesis of Troy being attacked for pure economic gain i think we should analise the legends to understand the motivations. Hellen as a character may represent many different things, like an idol that was stolen or a sacred alliance betrayed.

Woah! I was just thinking a lot about Minoan Greece last night after watching Red's and Blue's myth and history videos on the subject, so I am stoked to hear a fresh video about Mycenaean Greece today!

@Universal..

Жыл бұрын

Forgotten historical fact 📜 = The first inhabitants of Greece were the Pelasgians (according to the ancient authors). - Therefore, the ancestors of the present Albanians, the Pelasgians, lived during the prehistoric periods in most of the then known world, developing a very important civilization and building works of exceptional value". Source📜 : Great Greek Encyclopedia (Athens, volume. XIX p.873) - "Pelasgians, very ancient people living during the prehistoric period in Greece, in the Archipelago, on the coasts of Asia Minor and Italy. It is generally considered that the ancient Illyrians, Thracians, Phrygians, Lydians, Etruscans, Epirotes (...) and Albanians of today are the main branches of the Pelasgians". Source 📜: Petit journal Larousse (Paris, 1950, p.1599).

One of Blue's best videos yet. The points made in this Summary could be accurate. Great work on tying the loose ends on mythological history and actual history together so that it all makes sense.

@Universal..

Жыл бұрын

Forgotten historical fact 📜 = The first inhabitants of Greece were the Pelasgians (according to the ancient authors). - Therefore, the ancestors of the present Albanians, the Pelasgians, lived during the prehistoric periods in most of the then known world, developing a very important civilization and building works of exceptional value". Source📜 : Great Greek Encyclopedia (Athens, volume. XIX p.873) - "Pelasgians, very ancient people living during the prehistoric period in Greece, in the Archipelago, on the coasts of Asia Minor and Italy. It is generally considered that the ancient Illyrians, Thracians, Phrygians, Lydians, Etruscans, Epirotes (...) and Albanians of today are the main branches of the Pelasgians". Source 📜: Petit journal Larousse (Paris, 1950, p.1599).

Slandering Schliemann is the first thing anyone should do with an archeology degree

I didn’t guess that there could be symbolism of Theseus’ story.

@Universal..

Жыл бұрын

Forgotten historical fact 📜 = The first inhabitants of Greece were the Pelasgians (according to the ancient authors). - Therefore, the ancestors of the present Albanians, the Pelasgians, lived during the prehistoric periods in most of the then known world, developing a very important civilization and building works of exceptional value". Source📜 : Great Greek Encyclopedia (Athens, volume. XIX p.873) - "Pelasgians, very ancient people living during the prehistoric period in Greece, in the Archipelago, on the coasts of Asia Minor and Italy. It is generally considered that the ancient Illyrians, Thracians, Phrygians, Lydians, Etruscans, Epirotes (...) and Albanians of today are the main branches of the Pelasgians". Source 📜: Petit journal Larousse (Paris, 1950, p.1599)

The political relationship between a palace and its village or between different palaces is not known. Despite this lack of clarity, there were many shared cultural features across sites which makes the term Mycenaean culture a useful one. Such shared features include architecture, frescoes, pottery, jewellery, weaponry, and of course, the Greek language

@Universal..

Жыл бұрын

Forgotten historical fact 📜 = The first inhabitants of Greece were the Pelasgians (according to the ancient authors). - Therefore, the ancestors of the present Albanians, the Pelasgians, lived during the prehistoric periods in most of the then known world, developing a very important civilization and building works of exceptional value". Source📜 : Great Greek Encyclopedia (Athens, volume. XIX p.873) - "Pelasgians, very ancient people living during the prehistoric period in Greece, in the Archipelago, on the coasts of Asia Minor and Italy. It is generally considered that the ancient Illyrians, Thracians, Phrygians, Lydians, Etruscans, Epirotes (...) and Albanians of today are the main branches of the Pelasgians". Source 📜: Petit journal Larousse (Paris, 1950, p.1599)

The bronze age collapse is such a historic and mysterious moment in history

@Universal..

Жыл бұрын

Forgotten historical fact 📜 = The first inhabitants of Greece were the Pelasgians (according to the ancient authors). - Therefore, the ancestors of the present Albanians, the Pelasgians, lived during the prehistoric periods in most of the then known world, developing a very important civilization and building works of exceptional value". Source📜 : Great Greek Encyclopedia (Athens, volume. XIX p.873) - "Pelasgians, very ancient people living during the prehistoric period in Greece, in the Archipelago, on the coasts of Asia Minor and Italy. It is generally considered that the ancient Illyrians, Thracians, Phrygians, Lydians, Etruscans, Epirotes (...) and Albanians of today are the main branches of the Pelasgians". Source 📜: Petit journal Larousse (Paris, 1950, p.1599)

@georgethompson1460

Жыл бұрын

@@Universal.. Stop copy-pasting

@Universal..

Жыл бұрын

@@georgethompson1460 I have to do it to make things happen. Neibhur (FOUNDER OF THE MODERN SCHOOL OF ANCIENT HISTORY!): "The name Pelasgians was probably that of a nation and, in any case, THE GREEK EXPLANATIONS ON THIS SUBJECT ARE ABSURD!" Source 📜 : The History of Rome Volume I, p.507 Karl O.Müller : The more intelligence will enter the history of Greece, the more attention will be paid to the Pelasgians element sacrificed until now. Source 📜 : (Prolegomena-1825)

@01MrCapricorn

Жыл бұрын

@@Universal.. It's cool that you're a proud Albanian, but stop spamming.

@katelawyer3689

Жыл бұрын

@@01MrCapricorn but is it really nationalist a good thing I really don’t think so

Finally ! Was waiting for an episode on this subject for a long time and finally, Blue is tackling this mess of an era

@Universal..

Жыл бұрын

Forgotten historical fact 📜 = The first inhabitants of Greece were the Pelasgians (according to the ancient authors). - Therefore, the ancestors of the present Albanians, the Pelasgians, lived during the prehistoric periods in most of the then known world, developing a very important civilization and building works of exceptional value". Source📜 : Great Greek Encyclopedia (Athens, volume. XIX p.873) - "Pelasgians, very ancient people living during the prehistoric period in Greece, in the Archipelago, on the coasts of Asia Minor and Italy. It is generally considered that the ancient Illyrians, Thracians, Phrygians, Lydians, Etruscans, Epirotes (...) and Albanians of today are the main branches of the Pelasgians". Source 📜: Petit journal Larousse (Paris, 1950, p.1599).

Never knew the term "burn layer" could describe something so static and terrifying. Great work once again.

I’m thankful that this is one of the many things I look forward to every Friday

Wow… Eris wasn’t just trying to watch some mortals burn a city to the ground, she wanted to watch the entire world burn. Ok, so, Eris is now my new favorite Greek goddess.

As a reminder in Ancient Greek myths Troy gets sacked twice. Once by Heracles and then a generation or so later by Agamemnon. Edit: Also the whole Age of Heroes part of the Ancient Greek Myth has a feel of a civil war between Zeus and Poseidon with Zeus becoming the new top God afterwards. I mean Perseus kills Atlantis with Medusa's head in one version of it. Basically Zeus may not have been a horn dog and was instead trying to create demi-god supersoldiers to fight in his war.

The way that the Homeric stories likely preserve a memory of the original history reminds me of a lot of interpretations of the Tanakh (Old Testament). For example the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah may refer to a meteorite strike; evidence of meteors destroying cities in northern Jordan fit the time in place correctly. Another example is the very freedom of the Hebrews from Egyptian rule; Egyptians ruled the entire Levant for a long time, and their retreat back across the Sinai coincides with the domination of the Israelite tribes in Canaan

@TheGamingBDGR

Жыл бұрын

As I've been diving into biblical scholarship I'm becoming more and more convinced that the book of Genesis is simply a Hebrew equivalent of Hesiod's Theogny. From its short snippet styles of stories that it ties together over a vast span of time to it starting off with a creation poem then leading into a book mostly of narrative with most things prior to Abraham being called out of Ur and then Harran all having this hazy feeling to them when you read them it all screams of half-remembered tales being wrangled into something we can make sense of. Add on top the similarity between at least the Noah story with much older Babylonian tales that they themselves inherited from Sumer and Akkad it makes sense that at some point after the Exile that several Jewish scribes sat down and thought "we should really try and preserves these stories so our people can remember where it all came from"

@thomac

Жыл бұрын

@@TheGamingBDGR I mean, the hebrew were basically polytheistic before the return from the exile. You can say it's the mesopotamian culture of the time that heavily influenced their intellectual class, given they were educated in that society. The ideas of a god of gods and later full on monoteism came from the east, and meshed into the canaanite culture in a fragile way, in fact unfaithfulness to God is a constant theme in a good chunk of the bible. The masses always found easier to relate to local traditions and foreign popular cults than Yhwh somehow. It took centuries to change. Who knows if Judaism would have survived if it wasn't for the crescendo of events and cultural changes that culminated in the Maccabees revolts.

From the Bronze Age Collapse to the Golden Disaster Empire, to being the place where two (maybe 3) World Wars are started, the Balkans and the area near them are quite an eventful place

This is... cool on so many levels. I absolutely love when we can see the (probable) historical origin of a grand mythos. I would love to see more of these kinda videos... If there are more myths that we can figure out the historical origin of, that is.

@Universal..

Жыл бұрын

Forgotten historical fact 📜 = The first inhabitants of Greece were the Pelasgians (according to the ancient authors). - Therefore, the ancestors of the present Albanians, the Pelasgians, lived during the prehistoric periods in most of the then known world, developing a very important civilization and building works of exceptional value". Source📜 : Great Greek Encyclopedia (Athens, volume. XIX p.873) - "Pelasgians, very ancient people living during the prehistoric period in Greece, in the Archipelago, on the coasts of Asia Minor and Italy. It is generally considered that the ancient Illyrians, Thracians, Phrygians, Lydians, Etruscans, Epirotes (...) and Albanians of today are the main branches of the Pelasgians". Source 📜: Petit journal Larousse (Paris, 1950, p.1599).

@malamatinas1

Ай бұрын

@@Universal..do you not realize how desperate you look by copy pasting this comment everywhere?

I literally just went to Greece on a study abroad trip and saw all these sites. It's amazing seeing them in person

Been hoping you'd do this one ever since I tooled around Mycanea in AC Odyssey. Very interesting as always, thanks Blue!

@Universal..

Жыл бұрын

Forgotten historical fact 📜 = The first inhabitants of Greece were the Pelasgians (according to the ancient authors). - Therefore, the ancestors of the present Albanians, the Pelasgians, lived during the prehistoric periods in most of the then known world, developing a very important civilization and building works of exceptional value". Source📜 : Great Greek Encyclopedia (Athens, volume. XIX p.873) - "Pelasgians, very ancient people living during the prehistoric period in Greece, in the Archipelago, on the coasts of Asia Minor and Italy. It is generally considered that the ancient Illyrians, Thracians, Phrygians, Lydians, Etruscans, Epirotes (...) and Albanians of today are the main branches of the Pelasgians". Source 📜: Petit journal Larousse (Paris, 1950, p.1599).

I think the whole "discovering troy" drama needs its own episode some day. Because oh boy there was drama.

@merrittanimation7721

Жыл бұрын

Explosive drama

@doubleoof7907

Жыл бұрын

@@merrittanimation7721 pretty mind-blowing how some of the artifacts were treated

9:22 the Troy not being italicized really bugged me until I got the joke. Well played, Blue

Didn't know i could enjoy educated guesses so thoroughly! This is definitely one of my favourite videos of you, if not THE favourite! Bravo!!!

You gotta give Homer some credit for giving us his works. Whether these happened in real life or not, he helped to flourish literature and made history far interesting.

@Pheatan

Жыл бұрын

“They” most like homer was many many short stories from many poets tied together into one writing. But also the writings themselves were very inaccurate considering they keep intertwining modern (closer to alexander the great than the bronze age) war tactics, and armor and weaponry into the stories. Which to be fair makes a lot of sense because theres a good chance the stories written were of battles hundreds of years ago. Itd be like if you wrote a renaissance novel and your protagonist pulled out a winchester repeater, sure both the item and the setting are from over a hundred years ago but they definitely don’t fit together.

I remember that, in my high school history class, we discussed the fall of the Minoan civilization and the Mycenaean civilization, and one thing that was brought up was the Minoan Eruption: the eruption of an undersea volcano underneath the island of Thera (today Santorini). It was one of the most devastating volcanic events in history and it hit Crete with related earthquakes and tsunamis.

Schliemann was an interesting person... Let's just say that... Do mind the fact that he may have destroyed the most important parts of Troy because of a little something called Dynamite... Man imagine finding Troy though... It would be like following the exact route that Tripitaka followed and finding the thunderclap monastery... I love these videos on Bronze age civilizations! I suggest you do more! Also, Can you do a Video on Sri Lankan History? I think you will find it fascinating! because of things like their very early stance on protecting their Ecosystem, complex Water management system, them having peace with their fellow ethnic groups until the British Screwed that up, one of the longest-lasting kingdoms in history, a surprising amount of good monarchs and more! And a separate episode on Sigiriya which in my very biased opinion is the best and one of, if not the most complex palace ever!

This was fascinating. The idea that the origins of the Iliad and Odyssey date back that far and perhaps explaining the collapse of the region was completely new to me. 😃

This is possibly one of the best OSP videos ever! It takes so much we've already learns and looks at it in the historical context. Bravo Blue & Red!

I’ve literally been researching the Mycenaean Period the past few days, so this video feels relevant to me specifically 😭

@Universal..

Жыл бұрын

Forgotten historical fact 📜 = The first inhabitants of Greece were the Pelasgians (according to the ancient authors). - Therefore, the ancestors of the present Albanians, the Pelasgians, lived during the prehistoric periods in most of the then known world, developing a very important civilization and building works of exceptional value". Source📜 : Great Greek Encyclopedia (Athens, volume. XIX p.873) - "Pelasgians, very ancient people living during the prehistoric period in Greece, in the Archipelago, on the coasts of Asia Minor and Italy. It is generally considered that the ancient Illyrians, Thracians, Phrygians, Lydians, Etruscans, Epirotes (...) and Albanians of today are the main branches of the Pelasgians". Source 📜: Petit journal Larousse (Paris, 1950, p.1599).

The collapse remains one of the great question marks of history, and I'm happy to hear you doing a video on it 😊

“Hey this could be the approximate location of Troy….. Better get my Dynamite ready!!!!”

Awesome insight! It is satisfying to see you connect the historic dots and see them actually make a rather cohesive pattern!

I got so excited when I saw a new video on Mycenaean Greece. It's so fascinating to see theories on plausible explanations for the collapse & disappearance of an ancient culture.

This is the first I've heard this explanation of the bronze age collapse and it checks a lot of boxes that others often gloss over. I like it.

I totally agree with you. Afterall, they have assembled a huge fighting force for that era and the plunder of Troy was not enough for all of them. Apparently, with Troy's fall and the massacre of their allies, their territories were undefended. Free looting and slaves for the most. Who's gonna stop them? The Hittites took the axe. Egypt lost all its territory into the Levant. But, in the end, they probably lost to their casualties over the years and for the reason that many of them colonized regions in the Fertile Crescent. So, the remnants who attacked Egypt, were far from the capabilities of the war machine that brought Troy to its knees. Thats my opinion of course.

Jumped straight to top 3 favorite videos EVER!! I love how mythology can get peeled away to reveal the bonkers reality hiding underneath!!

Making my way through these videos and they explain so well the bits and pieces I'vepiced up when diving into it on my own so thank you! This is so fascinating!

This is such a cool episode! I Love that you dived into the myths a bit to explore the real world history, that kinda stuff is like... my jam 😆

Great video as always Blue. I think another cool video would exploring the exportation of Greek culture in places like the Kushan Empire, the Bactrian Kingdom, and the Selecud Dynasty 😎

Great video blue. I hear alot of theories anout this period but yours makes the most sense. Very interesting. Thank you for your research.

This was SO well-timed! I just started prepping for a book set during the Bronze Age Collapse!

I actually REALLY like this interpretation of the Bronze Age Collapse! You go Blue!

I’m almost surprised that you didn’t mention Red’s video series on the historical roots of Classical Greek mythology when you briefly touched on Poseidon being the primary deity of Mycenaean Greek mythology.

Ngl, I think this one might be my favorite video out of all the history ones. The Illiad's ties to the Bronze Age Collapse is something I vaguely knew was a thing but actually seeing the connective strings is _amazing_

This is my area, and I have to admit that this vid is actually quite historically accurate. The ironic or sarcastic tone takes nothing away and is in fact quite enjoyable. Thanks for checking your facts so thoroughly (in a general way).

Interesting interpretation, though I am a bit sceptical in regards to how Greco-centric the supposed course for the bronze age collapse would be.

Fantastic video keep it up your doing amazing job

6:00 is such good phrasing and such good comedic timing i freaking adore it

I have watched this video multiple times just because you've talked about my favorite type of masonry (the cyclopean style). Thank you so much.

So wait, is Blue implying the Sea People that wrecked the Eastern Mediterranean were basically refugees of the Greek warrior class? Damn.

@Yora21

Жыл бұрын

One of the various sea people groups is often speculated to be from Sardinia. Which would mean all of Southern Europe had collapsed into chaos before the survivors arrived in the East trying to fight for a chance to find a new place to live.

@cyber_person

Жыл бұрын

This is exactly what I was thinking.

I'm here and I'm queer!!! Update! Thank you guys for increasing my vocabulary, knowledge and understanding on so many topics, from history to literature(trope talks and journey to the west are my best series) and making it fun.

@Universal..

Жыл бұрын

Forgotten historical fact 📜 = The first inhabitants of Greece were the Pelasgians (according to the ancient authors). - Therefore, the ancestors of the present Albanians, the Pelasgians, lived during the prehistoric periods in most of the then known world, developing a very important civilization and building works of exceptional value". Source📜 : Great Greek Encyclopedia (Athens, volume. XIX p.873) - "Pelasgians, very ancient people living during the prehistoric period in Greece, in the Archipelago, on the coasts of Asia Minor and Italy. It is generally considered that the ancient Illyrians, Thracians, Phrygians, Lydians, Etruscans, Epirotes (...) and Albanians of today are the main branches of the Pelasgians". Source 📜: Petit journal Larousse (Paris, 1950, p.1599).

I love this. Thank you for joining all these dots together

This was so fascinating, never before have I seen the Bronze age collapse presented in such an engaging way!

Sometimes I thought that Trojan Horse might be a real thing but got a bit missed placed in the story's timeline. In Northern Thailand, some parts of Shan States, and Tai cities states of Southern China, there was a tradition of cremation funerals that need to done outside of city. The city always provided a function of "Deadman Gate" for this purpose. However, when the death was an important person or highest ranking of their societies, they also built a vast ornament to honor the death, as part of the theatre state. Sometimes it was too large to got out by the dead man gate, so they 'destroyed' a part of their city wall to bring it out for cremation and repaired the wall later when the funeral was over. Trojan Horse might be in the same category. The Mycenean built it for their ritual on purpose. The Trojan also took it as a trophy for a real purpose, the aristocrats really want it to shown their citizens the success of repulsing pirates. But it was too large for the city gate, so, they destroyed their city wall and took it into the city, willing to fix their wall after the long celebration. However, the Mycenean came back too fast that they did not have enough time to finish the repair (or lack of resources to do that). It was not the Mycenean that hid in the Horse, but the mismanagement of the Trojan that let the Mycenean to got the upper hand, and Boom! the city got sacked... or something like this...

@red5t653

7 ай бұрын

I've heard the theory that the Trojan Horse was, in some weird way, a representation of some kind of major earthquake that shattered some part of Troy's massive walls that allowed the Mycenean forces to properly swoop in and demolish it, thus causing the burn layer dated to approximately 1180 BC. This is primarily down to the fact that Poseidon, alongside being god of the sea, was ALSO the god of both horses AND earthquakes, so a massive wooden horse statue as an offering to a god fully capable of leveling the very walls you have been forestalled by for a good 10 years straight is, well, something that probably gets mixed in over centuries on centuries of mythological telephone. It also being a single 10 year long campaign is likely more indicative of multiple individual shorter campaigns by disparate kings to try and plunder Troy for all they could, but being repeatedly rebuffed by its impregnable defenses. Then one day, the QUAKE hits, and with it Troy burns, and the rest of Mycenean Greece with it.

Your next video about Greece should be about Ionia. They get a bad rep for being conquered by the Persians and failing the Ionian Revolt, but they were pretty cool before that. They got dragged into Athenian propaganda, so they got trashed on and were made to seem "impure" Asiatic Ionians who owed everything to Athens, despite Ionia developing things lol Ike philosophy first. They're also cool because they were the most "oriental" of the Greeks besides the Cretans. I'm pretty sure the Cretans and the Ionians were the first properly or somewhat properly defined ethnic groups within the Greeks, as other concepts as we know them came later in the Archaic and Classical periods, and a lot of that is from Athenian propaganda or some other literary work deriving its sources from Athenian Propaganda. Basically while the mainland and other "Greek" Greeks we're fanboying over Egypt and Asia and seeing them as some far away distinct civilization, the Asiatic Greeks, especially the Ionians, were buddy-buddy with the Egyptians and the Near East and WERE part of all these "Oriental", civilizations. There's evidence that they may have existed in Asia Minor longer than once thought. Heck out of all of the subjects of the Persian Empire, the only one actually mentioned in Ancient Indian literature besides the satrapies geographically close to them was Ionia, which is pretty cool that even India knew who they were. Ionians also fought as mercenaries for Asian kingdoms, which is pretty cool, and they were some of the first Greeks to deal with the Scythians and Cimmerians, and they even had knowledge of some trade routes leading deep into Central Asia (although this can only be inferred from an account by Herodotus of a semi-legendary epic poet). All in all, they were very important to Greek civilization, and were also very Anatolian, although that was brushed aside in literature due to trying to unite all of the Greeks against Persia, and their Anatolian heritage usually gets brought up only to call the Ionians strange and Oriental barbarians.

"Bling-filled shaft tombs" is somehow the funniest thing I've heard all day.

Blue! You are amazing! I have been waiting for this video since the Minioian Video.

1) So...what happened to the Hittites? They should have been completely insulated from chaos in the Greek world. Despite extensive written Hittite records there are only one or two possible mentions of Mycenaean civilization in the Hittite records...there was little or no connection between the two cultures. Yet the Hittites vanished utterly at precisely the same time as the Mycenaeans. 2) Obviously Troy SHOULD have been rich, from its geographical and geopolitical position as the gate keeper of the ancient world between the Aegean and the Black Sea. But there isn't much archeological evidence that Troy actually was all that wealthy. Perhaps all of its wealth was plundered, but...was there nothing at all left in cracks and crannies for archeologists to find millennia later? Nothing about the basic architectural layout of Troy suggests it was anywhere near as wealthy as Mycenae, even at Troy's height. Archeological Troy's apparent LACK of great wealth is mysterious, there is no evidence that Schliemann's city ever had those so-called "topless towers." 3) The Iliad is wrongly dated to ca. early 1200s BC. Odysseus's ruse at the very beginning of the story, where he gets Helen's suitors to each pledge they will come to the aid of the others in a crisis, is an ORIGIN story for a type of league of Greek city states, led by Mycenae & Argos. The city states who signed onto that pact are listed in the Iliad's famous addendum, the Catalog of Ships. The Catalog is like the signature page to a founding constitution. And wouldn't you know, almost as soon as the suitors pledge their mutual support the crisis arrives and their loyalty is tested. They redeem their pledge of mutual support by sailing together to Troy to get Helen back. The rest of the story is just a boys adventure & war story, packed with lessons about warrior honor and righteous living. But since the foundation of the Iliad is actually the founding of a Mycenaean League of Greek city states, the Iliad's proper date should be several centuries earlier, roughly in the 1400s BC. 4) Like everyone else, you ignore slavery. The warrior Greek societies were built on slavery, it wasn't just an ancillary economic form, it was instrumental. With the citizen males all practicing arts of war day and night, somebody had to raise the food and take out the garbage. And where ancient societies got the slaves that were essential to their societies was by those fanatically well trained warriors raiding vulnerable villages and bringing back the victims as helpless slaves. It was the warrior/slave system finally breaking down around 1200 BC that lead to the great Bronze Age Collapse.

It really is amazing when you think about it... How some of the lost cities from old tales and religious texts have been found in recent years. From Troy in the Greek epics, to Dwarka of the Mahabharat (basically a real life Atlantis), and even Sodom and Gomorrah from the Bible!

Bro I've literally never seen your videos but for some reason I was subbed to you today. Guess the algorithm likes you

It's so cool noticing details mentioned in other videos come together here, like McLennan Greece being "ancient Greek squared" to comparing the hellinistic vs mycenean pantheon, with the aphrodite and hades mention, to the minotaur myth explanation. It's like pulling strings and tape!

So in summary of the summary- An empire isn't built in a day- But in theory Mycenaeon Greeks could destroy multiple including their own in a single war.

I can't help but now see all of Ancient Greek history as one big tragi-comedy now. In this context, the Mycenaens were oppressed by the Minoans, had enough and with some help from a well timed volcano, "slew the Mycenaen beast" as it were and took all their shinies. They then turn on each other, using the loot to build big honking palaces, tombs, walls and weapons. After a while, the loot drys up and desperate not to go bankrupt/lose power and be defenseless, ironically team up to attack the nearest rich city they can, Troy, to steal its shinies, making up an excuse like, say, a kidnapped princess they want back. So, they sack Troy, not realising they're actually destroying one of their civilisation last trading lifelines with no replacement. Some return home, only for their whole way of life to collapse because no money left. Learning absolutely nothing from this, they try doing this again and again on anyone else, from the Hittites to the Egyptians until finally most of the Bronze Age world just collapses. Way to go team, good job. 👍 They eventually make up for it centuries later by making a new world order and developing some additional ideas like democracy, theatre, science, etc. They even surpass what came before, with them making an Empire that stretches all the way to India at its height. But in typical Greek tragic fashion, it collapses due to infighting. Finally, in the funniest twist of all, the Romans, who believe themselves the descendants of Troy's survivors, have enough of them. "You made our ancestors flee for their lifes from their home and now you're trying to colonise parts of our new home in Italy? Yeah no. This time, we're the ones who'll win, take your stuff and make a whole new golden age of civilisation to boot." Which they do. So in the end, Troy won in a sense, with the Greeks becoming like the Minoans they once fought. It's like poetry, it rhymes. 😆 If nothing else, the ancient Greeks proved why they are masters of dramatic storytelling. Cause they lived it to the hilt. 😆 At least, that's my take from this. Don't take my word for it of course, just study the facts in the end, whatever they may be.

OH HECK YEEE ! IVE BEEN WAITING FOR YOU TO DO BRONZE AGE COLLAPSE STUFF

Love the Bronze Age civilizations & collapse. Thanks for the video!

every (real) history buff comes to a point when he or she realizes that the Ancient Greeks may not be the heroic pioneers of civilization that we were all taught they were back in grade school

The Bronze Age Collapse, a true apocalypse. Surprise hollyweird hasn't gotten on that.

@Carewolf

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Because the Europeans are the bad guys and the middle easteners the good guys ;)

@Carewolf

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And the last standing surviver is the African guy :D

@wankawanka3053

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@@Carewolf the african guy the never rose again after getting conquered by the assyrians

@grapeshot

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@@wankawanka3053 they were not conquered by the Assyrians. They were pushed out of Upper and Lower Egypt but the Nubian Kingdom went on for another thousand Years.

You’ll probably never read this but I wanted to get it out anyways: Watching your Miscellaneous Myths videos years ago had a big impact on me and making my love for ancient history even stronger than it already was! I kinda stopped watching you for a couple years but the impact your videos had on me still stayed! And now, after all those years my love for ancient history has got me into studying Archeology! And like your Miscellaneous Myths videos have brought me into this after all those years and now watching you again, your History Summarized videos are helping me with studying!

I think you remind most of us of a friend we had as a child, thank you