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@joaquinleon3021

Жыл бұрын

Okay

@Tjeran

Жыл бұрын

I hope you can include something about the pietistic movement in the Nordics, with figures such as Hans Nielsen Hauge and Levi Leastadius. Laestadianism is present both in North America as well as in the Nordic countries. Especially in the Sami areas of Northern Norway, Sweden and Finland

@realDonaldMcElvy

Жыл бұрын

Thank you for including the Catholic Apostolic Church (Irvingian Movement). I don't know if anyone else said something about it, but I'm glad you heard me. I'm not Irvingian, but I do believe it is distinctive enough to at least make the chart. Once again, thank you.

@bartoszN01

Жыл бұрын

Changes to the chart: According to some sources I've seen, there are currently more than 10% of Christians in Syria, Qatar, and the UAE. Also on the map, the island of Sakhalin isn't colored in as a part of Russia and Chios, Lesbos and Rhodes aren't colored in as a part of Greece.

@timsmith9503

Жыл бұрын

You should do a chart on different sects, types, or denominations within Judaism next

I’m just imagining Matt gradually loosing his sanity as this project has grown more and more complicated

@josephengel2091

Жыл бұрын

I’m going to have to buy this chart for sure- he’s put in a massive amount of research into this!

@KidGibson

Жыл бұрын

I imagine red string, news clippings, and pictures plastering his walls.

@Night-7189

Жыл бұрын

I can certainly imagine that, or really anyone in general if they decide to look into the history and branches of Christianity. It's interesting how many Christian denominations there are. Can't wait for the videos for the other Abrahamic religions.

@YudronWangmo

Жыл бұрын

crazy… all the way to the bank.

@travismichaud6064

Жыл бұрын

I'll disagree. I think this is in the center of his wheelhouse. I think he enjoys it.

The Evangelical Lutheran Church of Finland should be added to the Lutheran section of the chart. It has 3.7 million members, is the official state church of Finland and separated from the Church of Sweden over 200 years ago.

@historyfin1234

Жыл бұрын

Actually it isn't a official state churcj anymore. State and church were separated in 1879 although the church still has lot of importance/influence compared to other religions or denominations in Finland

@ananas_anna

Жыл бұрын

Maybe bring up Laestadianism as well, since they’re trying to separate from the state church because Laestadians don’t recognize female clergy or gay marriage.

@revinhatol

Жыл бұрын

And don't forget the Ecumenical Patriarchate's Finnish Orthodox Church!

@revinhatol

Жыл бұрын

Plus, the Church of Denmark had branches in Iceland, the Faroe Islands and Greenland that broke off and form their own national/people's churches.

@stephanottawa7890

Жыл бұрын

You are absolutely right and the comments do not address what you are trying to say. It should be apparent to all, but unfortunately people do not read comments for the sake of being informed.

I'm waiting for Matt to announce in the next episode that he's since found out about fifty more denominations with enormous memberships that no-one's ever heard of, so he'll need six more episodes and a chart the size of a barn wall to wrap it all up.

@brycewargin6799

Жыл бұрын

I'm half expecting a CGP Grey style video of him going of on some exasperated tangent of something he spent forever researching and then couldn't put into the chart.

@mattc.6526

11 ай бұрын

​@@brycewargin6799 The Church of Tiffany

@delusionnnnn

11 ай бұрын

Here's hoping. "The chart is available only in 48 x 36 in. as this is the minimum readable size. Part 18 will conclude the video series … of Season One."

One note for the poster: you may want to change Rastafarianism to Rastafari. As far as I'm aware, members of that religion prefer to not have the "ism" at the end of the name.

@memofromessex

Жыл бұрын

Nobody expected that comment

@bj.bruner

Жыл бұрын

The Wailers' song Get Up, Stand Up says something like "we're sick and tired of your stinking '-isms" (The Wailers was Bob Marley's group)

@sdrawkcabUK

Жыл бұрын

@@bj.bruner ‘isms and schisms’ they say. Rasta subgroups are called ‘mansions’

Great take, on Non-denominational Christians being a denomination of their own.

@brycewargin6799

Жыл бұрын

They are and they aren't. Rather, there are probably at least 3 different styles of non-denominational churches. (And then there are churches, like the Antioch Movement, which each claim to be non-denominational while having centralized training structures).

@princewillmadugba

11 ай бұрын

some think they are baptist with a smoke machine

@GabrielSchlaefer

10 ай бұрын

In my experience, “non-denominational Christians” are usually fundamentalist Protestants of the Baptist variety (i.e. baptism by immersion only, no sacraments, etc.).

Stop changing it and take my money already!!! 😂 Kidding. It’s amazing work and I can’t wait to get it. Also appreciate you’ve taken on feedback for it all

@Theslavedrivers

Жыл бұрын

Ditto. Roll on 23rd June.

I think it would be more accurate to say that Antoinette Brown was the first *ordained* woman minister in the U.S. Quakers recognized women ministers from the start but did not ordain them (nor did they ordain the men).

@jonl3696

Жыл бұрын

True. Classic Quakers do not ordain ministers, they believe that everyone, both men and women, has the "light of God" and can speak on behalf of the Holy Spirit, hence ordination isn't necessary for ministry. Antoinette Brown was originally a Congregationalist and was licensed to preach in a local Congregational church in 1851, but was later ordained as a minister by a Methodist named Luther Lee. Brown however eventually became Unitarian.

I'd really like to see you cover the unitarians, the universalists, and the Unitarian Universalists. The unitarians were especially influential in early America, with several presidents and many early abolitionists being unitarian.

@Default78334

Жыл бұрын

Unitarians were covered in an earlier video.

@jonl3696

Жыл бұрын

Unitarianism is just a modern incarnation of Arianism, first springing out of Reformed Church in Poland, and making its way across the Atlantic in the early 19th century, influencing many Congregationalist churches in New England to turn Unitarian. Then the Unitarians, having no real creed that makes them distinctly "Christian" fit well merging with the Universalists, a similar group that has no real theological backbone but espouses a very fluid concept of religion and God. Together, the Unitarians and Universalists form a syncretistic group that draws teachings from every existing religious expression which therefore makes them not explicitly Christian.

@ComradePhoenix

Жыл бұрын

@@Default78334 Which one? I honestly don't remember.

@myronmason8170

Жыл бұрын

@@Default78334 Indeed which video?? I have seen all of his religious videos and he has not dedicated a video to just Unitarian and Universalist Christians. Ready to Harvest has a video on the groups though.

@kblibliyliyb

Жыл бұрын

I saw it pop up on the chart in an earlier episode but he never talked about it. At least I don’t thing so

For the poster: There should be a link from Syriac Christianities to Islam. The influence of Syriac late antique authors and themes on the Quran has been well established. For example the story of the 7 sleepers of Ephesos is in the Quran. There is way more, like very similar polemic topoi from Syriacs against Judaism, etc.

I think I've learned more about Christianity in this series than I did either in my 17 years as a believer reading my bible and listening to sermons or my 17 years as an atheist, listening to conversations about religions. Thanks for making it, it's genuinely enlightening.

@OMGanger

Жыл бұрын

Says more about you than the presenter tbh

@sdrawkcabUK

Жыл бұрын

Are you still an atheist?

@harmony9341

Жыл бұрын

@@sdrawkcabUK Yes.

@Red-Faction

Жыл бұрын

​​@@OMGanger not really, who else even attempts to give such a comprehensive look at the evolution of Christian denominations throughout history?

@brycewargin6799

Жыл бұрын

@@OMGanger I would say it says more about the church the person grew up in.

This has been an awesome series. Thanks for your effort and an unbiased approach.

@ropersonline

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for subsidising content I enjoy but certainly could not afford to support like you do.

I suggest changing the colour of the Church of the East since it currently matches the same grey as the various Protestant churches without a clear denomination allegiance. Also gonna ask again for Ordinariate Catholics and the return of the Syro-Malankara Catholic Church like in the earlier episodes. Great work btw!

Something that you may not know; the Foursquare church's founder, Aimee Semple McPherson, was originally a member of the Salvation Army. I don't think you should change your chart but it is a interesting fact.

I'll once more propose adding the Finnish Lutheran church as offshoot of Swedish Lutheran church in 1809. For one, at 3,5M members it is large enough to mention. Additionally, it is an interesting example of split not due to doctrinal differences, but rather due to geopolitics.

That's a interesting nomeclature for the "charismatic" churches, in my country those are called neo-pentecostals and the charismatic movement is only used to refer for the movements inside pre-established churches.

@t_ylr

Жыл бұрын

It's used that way in the US as well, but pentecostal and charismatic are basically interchangeable here. I think the difference comes from the fact that individuals are more often referred to as charismatic rather than churches or denominations. Also, in the US at least, Pentecostal has kind of an old school conservative connotation. My mom grew up in a pentecostal church where you're more likely to see ppl in suits and long skirts. If you see ppl wearing mostly jeans and t shirts that church is more likely to call themselves Charismatic.

@moisesduarte2926

Жыл бұрын

i'm guessing you're in latin america, because that's the way we name them in brazil. the two actual instances i've seen the term "charismatic" be used in brazil were 1) the charismatic episcopal church (which, to be fair, was never a movement inside the actual episcopal church, despite the similar liturgy) and 2) the catholic charismatic renewal.

@greasher926

Жыл бұрын

In Ukraine charismatics are considered to be more modern and of the world with loud Christian rock music, while Pentecostals are more traditional and are basically baptists who pray in tongues.

This is going to be one amazing opus when it's done. I'm normally pretty anti-censorship but good call on Westboro. It mostly consists of two litigious families who allegedly bait retribution for their actions only to sue.

@Bawhoppen

Жыл бұрын

If something is a matter of public interest, shouldn't it be included regardless? Depiction doesn't equal endorsement...

@sarysa

Жыл бұрын

@@Bawhoppen There was always an implied "minimum population" threshold, and when a denomination is just a handful of people who are just insanely media savvy, it makes more sense to not feed the trolls.

@orktv4673

Жыл бұрын

I thought it was interesting to see exactly where where these crackpots lie in the genealogy of Christianity.

@YudronWangmo

Жыл бұрын

@@BawhoppenThere were/are many destructive high-control cults that have called themselves Christians. For example, the Children of God. Perhaps he will address others next time, but I am not sure they illuminate the topic of Christian denominations.

@Bawhoppen

Жыл бұрын

The Samaritans are on the chart, and they have only 800 members, and aren't even a Christian denomination. But they're important to put on the chart because they exist, and are a matter of educational interest. The same goes for other groups: the FLDS, Branch Davidians, and Westboro - all well-known groups that have had a significant impact on the public psyche, even if for unfortunate reasons.

Changes to the chart: According to some sources I've seen, there are currently more than 10% of Christians in Syria, Qatar, and the UAE. Also on the map, the island of Sakhalin isn't colored in as a part of Russia and Chios, Lesbos and Rhodes aren't colored in as a part of Greece.

@bartoszN01

Жыл бұрын

@@billyr2904 I looked for mistakes in the map and zoomed in to check the area.

@ropersonline

Жыл бұрын

Political borders are really going to date this chart. Or if we all survive this long enough for anyone to care, where people draw them is going to be a reliable shibboleth as to whether the chart-maker in question sides with the Global West or Global South. If our benighted leaders continue the present escalation, it won't be only Ephraimites slain at the passages of Jordan. (Judges 12:6) Coming soon, from Northern Hemisphere studios: _Eschatology Now_

@timbushell8640

11 ай бұрын

@@ropersonline Poland - the moving mythical place : )))))

So, basically, Protestant Christianity as we currently understand it and see it, specially in Latin America, it’s been shaped in the English speaking world. England and USA in the past two centuries. I grew in a evangelical family and although the church I used to attend was non-denominational (which I guess it was charismatic), and I was raised evangelical… now I can see all the influences that I received during my childhood and adolescence. And all of it comes from the USA in a nutshell 😂😅

@bradc6199

Жыл бұрын

Because they evangelised the world...

@winstoncottage344

Жыл бұрын

@@bradc6199 Probably more like: because they are American, they realised there was money to be made out of it.

This is one of the few series I immediately click on when I see it. It will be sad when it's done.

Funfact: Salvation Army owned an orphanage in Liverpool called Strawberry Fields where a young John Lennon would frequently would play in The garden which would be the inspiration for the Strawberry Fields Forever.

I met a wonderful Indian Muslim family once. The dad in the family went to a Christian school as a child; in the course of our conversations, he was shocked to learn that there were denominions within Christianity. He had thought all these years (even after having lived in the US for over 5 years at that point) that we were one big monolith. If only that were the case 😅

Suggestion for the last episode: in the religion of my family (Kardecist Spiritism), Jesus Christ has a central role. I am not sure if it can be classified as Christian, although some Spiritists self-classify as Christians. 2%-3% of Brazilian population (around 6 million people) follows that religion that originated in France

@Cr7Micto

Жыл бұрын

Outside of Brazil, no Kardecist recognizes himself as a Christian, and even in Brazil, the large Spiritist groups consider themselves Christians.

@gabrielfernandes1246

11 ай бұрын

I think outside of Brazil it's just called spiritism

@gabrielfernandes1246

11 ай бұрын

Mas se ele colocar a gnt ali já tá de bom tamanho XD

That’s crazy because I went to a Church of God in Anderson IN, for a second I thought Matt was just listing my church specifically

I can't even begin to describe how validating it was to briefly see the Two By Two church on your chart! The church doesn't teach its origins, and growing up, I felt very disconnected from the rest of Christianity. Turns out the church isn't so disconnected! I look forward to your final video and can't wait to buy the poster.

@brianpeterson332

Жыл бұрын

I know! The 2x2s exist people! And there's a lot of them. Well, there were prior to the revelations of the child systemic child sex abuse anyway.

@damiendeecee

Жыл бұрын

Same here! The group is shrinking rapidly.. estimated to be around 1 million strong in the 80s, and now max 300,000? Hopefully the group will be so tiny in the future, it doesn't get a place in this chart, but I'm glad it has just scraped in now :D

I was beyond impressed with how much you covered in this episode! Besides giving an accurate description of the origin of the Church of the Nazarene (which I used to be affiliated with), you also covered the fundamentalist-modernist controversy, "The Fundamentals," the Fourth Great Awakening, and how to define a "denomination," which are some of my favorite topics in regards to Christian denominations. While I was originally disappointed that the Church of the Nazarene wasn't placed with the Methodists, I agree that its current placement does make more sense. Great job on all of this!

For the next chart, you might want to check out the Christian Congregation in Brazil (or around the world for this cause). I think that they meet your criteria as they have over 2.5 million members in Brazil, and they have an established presence in lots of other places. I think it could be a useful example in showing the expansion of evangelical and pentecostal churches to South America and the wider world.

@lucacalabrese5725

11 ай бұрын

I think they fit in the non-denominational part, because I read that in their site and also on the Italian one since they have connections with many other countries and in my own region (Calabria).

If at all possible, I think you should try to keep the FLDS and Branch Davidians on the chart, because the Branch Davidians obviously left a mark on the zeitgeist, even if they're a small group, and I think it's helpful to understand where they came from.

My parents are both Catholic but were married by a Pentecostal minister. My mom grew up Protestant (Presbyterian, I believe), but she married a Catholic. She later converted. They got divorced, but not annulled. Catholics don’t recognize divorce. So when my mom met my dad and he happened to be a cradle Catholic, they couldn’t get married in a Catholic Church. My dad’s best friend was the son of a Pentecostal minister, so his dad officiated the ceremony.

@waldemarsikorski4759

Жыл бұрын

Oh yes they do, it requires money and often Vatican connections, but they do.

@queenofarathia.

Жыл бұрын

@@waldemarsikorski4759 they recognize annulment, not divorced

@waldemarsikorski4759

Жыл бұрын

@@queenofarathia. ...but in practicality, simony works wonders.

@jayt9608

Жыл бұрын

​@@waldemarsikorski4759 Technically simony is the purchase of a church position, such as paying a sum and having your son made a priest/bishop/cardinal/pope. What you are describing is the bribing of a church official to recognize the marriage, which is straight bribery.

@Hadar1991

Жыл бұрын

@@queenofarathia. To be honest there is not even an annulment in Catholic Church, nobody can annul Catholic marriage. What are you referring to is a formal statement that there never was any marriage between those two. All the ceremonies are meaningless if the prerequisites are not met. So for example is somebody was force to marry against it will Church Court can state that there was no marriage, because there was no free will in it.

La Luz del Mundo is a large denomination with a major following in Mexico, somewhere north of 1 million followers.

@kingslade414

Жыл бұрын

yeah but the pastor is a heretic he would rape little girls in his church for years, he claims to be Jesus Christ (messiah like) & is currently being convicted in LA as a felon for sex trafficking minors & making child pornography he is not a good representation of christianity

@marinaaaa2735

Жыл бұрын

They're also non trinitarian and a cult whose leader is in jail for child sexual abuse

Wow! Great job again on this one! I was a bit puzzled when I misread the Pentecostal characteristic as "Speaking in thongs" and wondered what the hell was going on in those churches. I clearly have to get my eyes checked.

@bradc6199

Жыл бұрын

​@@damnedmadman well, that's funny!😂

It would be helpful to reflect in some way the current size of each denomination to compare and know the influence on today’s Christianity.

@markmccarthy8336

Жыл бұрын

A dot or symbol beside each denomination/branch that corresponds to the approximate current members would be nice. You could add little legend in the corner to translate the dots or symbols into an estimated number of members. This would be helpful to get a sense of which denominations are large, which are fairly minor, and which are extinct. It can be difficult to determine this with the current chart and easy to lump all denominations with the same name size as being equal in congregation size.

@PadreFernandoLC

Жыл бұрын

I think it may be handy to put just the percentage each denomination represents. From 2.6B christians 50% are Catholics, 10% are Eastern Orthodox, others can be 2% or 0.01% of Christianity, etc... But that gives the idea.

Thanks Matt for all this incredible work. Its so so nice.

I'm enjoying these videos a lot and learning SO much. I don't live in the USA so had no idea there are zillions of denominations. Thank you for your work. If you deliver to Europe I really want one poster. It's gonna look awesome in my study room.

I've really been loving this series! One idea for the poster that I personally would find helpful if I were to have this up on a wall somewhere is a separate small box defining some key terms, such as "Nicene" vs. "non-trinitarian" church, "mainline" vs. "evangelical", etc...

Interesting to see the 2x2's religion (shown on bottom left of screen @ 7:18) is effectively an offshoot of the Keswick movement. Even to this day, the hierachy within this secretive group deny their true origin.

@Dewayne1173

Жыл бұрын

I'm glad to see them getting a brief spotlight. Hopefully, Matt will give the 2x2s a shout-out in the next video!

I grew up in the Church of the Nazarene, but left sometime in my early/mid twenties for various reasons. It's been so cool to watch this series. I've really loved it. ❤️

Looking forward to part 8 of this series and the upcoming poster. I noticed that you plan to make Messianic Judaism apart from all the other denominations. However, you might want to place it under evangelicalism, Protestant, or Southern Baptist. Here are the opening paragraphs on the topic from Wikipedia: Messianic Judaism is a modernist and syncretic movement of Protestant Christianity that incorporates some elements of Judaism and other Jewish traditions into evangelicalism. It emerged in the 1960s and 1970s from the earlier Hebrew Christian movement and was most prominently propelled through the non-profit organization "Jews for Jesus" founded in 1973 by Martin Rosen, an American minister under the Conservative Baptist Association.

@soupycask

Жыл бұрын

He might be doing that as to acknowledge that many messianic jews still consider themselves jews and not christians.

@reality1701

11 ай бұрын

Yep, they're a branch of Venture Church Network. The US military also assigns them as Christian and not Jewish. Jewish people also do not consider them Jewish, but as Christian. While some members may consider themselves Jewish rather than Christian, they are at their core theology, Christian as they believe in Jesus as the Messiah. It's honestly just a thing the Baptists cooked up to deceive Jewish people into becoming Christian.

I grew up in a non denominational pentecostal church, and I went to a Pentecostal christian university before becoming agnostic. I think that the Azusa Street Revival is maybe the most important Christian event of the 20th century. Maybe even more important than Vatican II because of the impact that Pentecostal/Charismatic Christians have had on all other denominations. There are pentecostals members of the Roman Catholic Church, the Eastern Orthodox Church, and most major protestant denominations. Beyond that pentecostals have had a huge impact on music, styles of worship, teaching, and they were some of the first celebrity televangelists. They're also are very committed to missionary work. In some ways the traditional Pentecostal denominations are victims of their own success. They have been so successful at spreading they way of worshipping to non denominational churches and older denominations that they have lost their uniqueness and relevance.

@jakeaurod

Жыл бұрын

I wonder why. I was never interested in Pentacostalism. Do people prefer more active ritual similar to magic compared to sedate services where they are lectured to? I wonder if it feels empowering vs. servile. Or maybe it's more extroverted than introverted.

@lamename2010

Жыл бұрын

@@jakeaurod I think it has more to do with the emphasis of personal investment into worship (at least that is how i would describe it). And while you can have such a personal investment in a quiet and serene setting, a more active setting probably works better to get you personally invested. At least for the impact that pentacostalism has had on non-pentacostals.

@t_ylr

Жыл бұрын

@@jakeaurod I think there's a lot of factors to it. Pentecostal/Charismatic churches, especially more modern ones, have mastered the art of priming which makes you more suggestible and open minded. This might be controversial, but even speaking in tongues can be a form of emotional priming that makes you more open to listen to what a pastor has to say.

@GeneMTBros

Жыл бұрын

After watching this episode i now equate some of these "pentecostal branches" similar to seers, and oracles. The denominations of Christianity has gone awry and led many down a wretched path of confusion and ignorance.

@bradc6199

Жыл бұрын

​@@jakeaurod the people who have no experience with it are easy to spot once they start talking about it. You are clearly in that camp.

As a former Theology student, the mention of the Universal Church of the Kingdom of God (IURD in the Portuguese acronym) was something I was wondering if it was going to be made, since it is quite massive here in Brazil. However, what surprised me was your classification of it under the Charismatic movement: theologians down here usually classify the IURD (and other smaller local churches with the same kind of public services) as a Third Wave Pentecostal church, or more commonly as a Neo-Pentecostal church. At least down here the Charismatic movement is more associated with the Catholic church, in the exact way the video showed. Could be just a difference in nomenclature, since our theology studies for decades no longer heavily draw from US or European material (as in it is still used as source, but not as primary one), or maybe there wasn't space enough in the poster to show all that information. Just wanted to let you know.

@BeWise4Life

Жыл бұрын

I’ve noticed that when I’ve talked to people from Central or South America their experience with Charismatics usually stems from Catholic Churches but in the USA is is definitely a more broad term and you don’t hear too much about Charismatic Catholics.

@varana

11 ай бұрын

I think that's mostly a different use of terminology - i.e. "Neo-Pentecostal" being called "Charismatic" here, with no special term for the charismatic movement within other churches.

I'd like to see more on the Church of the East and the complicated relationship between the different St. Thomas Christian groups of India.

Can we get modern gnostic Christian churches in the next episode? French Gnostic Church, Johanitte Church, Ecclesia Gnostica, Etc

It’s cool to see Vineyard on there even just a flying mention of Calvary Church and Chuck Smith. Vineyard was started by John Wimber then lots of churches were planted from there. We’re now part of Vineyard København.

Even if this is not 100% perfectly accurate, this is amazing, and the amount of work put into this deserves a purchase of this chart.

I feel like your work on this chart will never be done

Pretty awesome to see such a plethora of confessions in the US. I had no idea about 90% of them. And most of the things I ever learned about American churches are actually charactertic of different denominations (e.g. I would see some religious practices in a movie, and then some in a different one, and would have no idea that these might be two totally different churches). PS I'm a non-practicing Eastern Orthodox from Europe.

@jdotoz

11 ай бұрын

It’s a tragedy, really. Jesus prayed that his people would be as one, not hundreds.

@jeremywilliams5107

11 ай бұрын

​@@jdotozthis is the Chart of Shame...

Matt, great work! Under Charismatic you might add in “word of faith” churches, those developed out of the teachings of John G. Lake, Oral Roberts, Kenneth Copeland, Kenneth Hagin, and many of the recent popular television preachers.

@highway2heaven91

6 ай бұрын

I definitely think that Word of Faith deserves a spot but since WOF isn’t considered a denomination and all of the churches are independent it could fall under non-denominational churches. Also John G. Lake and Oral Roberts aren’t WOF (Oral Roberts is arguable though).

For the poster: You need to add the "Batak Christian Protestant Church (HKBP)". It is a very developing and even already a big body of church. It was formed for Batak People in Indonesia who were pagans, converted to Christianity, by German Lutheran missionary to Batak lands, Ludwig Ingwer Nommensen, who was born in Duchy of Schleswig, Denmark, modern day Germany. The church of HKBP has spread to US, Singapore, ect. The Batak Christian Protestant Church now has 4,5 millions members spread to the world and the current leader is Ephorus (Bishop) Robinson Butarbutar. HKBP is the Top 4 biggest Church in Lutheran World Federation

Well done! Unintentionally it just shows how man tries to put God in a box!

Loving this series! One suggestion - the churchs in communion with each other should be indicated through a speical box or a clearer color key. The "denominations" listed under orthodox, catholic and anglican churches are often in communion with each other. This should be clearly displayed in contrast with the churches whose branches are not in communion with each other. Thanks so much for all of your work on this!

I grew up in a church of god that speaks in tongue, run up and down the iles, flaying on the floor, have the church (normally the younger people like my self) thought it was goofy.

@jakeaurod

Жыл бұрын

"flaying" on the floor 😮

@icanbelieveitisnotdonebyap941

Жыл бұрын

@@jakeaurodyup super extreme church we believed in mid evil justice... I meant flailing

As a lifelong member of the AG I've been waiting for this episode since Episode 1!!! This is just simply fantastic, thank you for all your hard work Matt!

Thank you for highlighting Pentecostal Assemblies of the World.

Been looking forward to seeing my little branch appear, very glad to finally have made it. Non-denominational (but actually Charismatic) family over here.

There is also the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod (WELS) and Lutheran Church Missions in Christ (LCMC) which both have more than 300k members in the US. Plus there’s the Catholic Apostolic Church which has 8 million members, it was part of the Irvingian movement

I used to live approx a mile from Moriah Chapel in Loughor, where the Welsh Revival of 1904 started. The building is still used for worship

Great video as always! Have you covered Unitarians and Unitarian Universalists yet?

@cswrye

Жыл бұрын

They're on the chart, but he hasn't said much about them yet. He might cover them in the last video.

@sandhilldiary

Жыл бұрын

The UUA is on the chart, connected (properly) to the Reform Congregationalists through the historical Unitarian side. I commented in more depth elsewhere but the short version is the current UUA (1961) probably belongs in New Religious Movements, with the Unitarians under non-Nicene and the Universalists under Second Great Awakening. (both really got going in the early 1800s give or take.)

I just wrote a healthy little note explaining why the Jesus Movement, we never called ourselves Jesus Freaks, was so much more influential than the Charismatic Movement (music, commercialism, casual wear in church, etc) then it was all erased for who knows why. If you are interested I was there in 1970. I haven't got the time or energy to write it all again. Thanks for your efforts Matt.

@mikeharrison1868

Жыл бұрын

I was a bit of a dope freak in NZ in the early 70s, and became a Jesus freak in 75. Quickly morphed into more of a charismatic. I was converted through some Presbyterians attending a charismatic baptist church, baptised in AOG, attended a charismatic Bible school (with Catholics, Methodists, Presbyterians, Baptists), had a year with Youth with a Mission during which I attended the local Plymouth brethren church, then four years in an AOG church and similar amount of time in a charismatic baptist church which changed into a house church. Then I became an atheist.

@georgiancrossroads

Жыл бұрын

@@mikeharrison1868 I took a very different route. For openers from the very beginning I was never a freak about Jesus. We realized Jesus was not a trip. Our group eventually became increasingly cult-like. But I could see this didn't square with our earlier emphasis. I ended up at L'Abri in Switzerland where I learned my mind was valued too. I turned away from the Charismatic churches. And I ended up in New York City, hanging out among punks and other edgy folk. But I always kept my faith in the face of much insanity. I could go on. The point is I had all the romantic emotional aspects complete burnt out of me by 1980. I clearly saw the darkness in the world. Because of that I wasn't tempted to throw my faith away.

@mikeharrison1868

Жыл бұрын

@@georgiancrossroads cool. L'Abri! Those Presbyterians through whom I was converted were Schaeffer fans. I had longed to believe, but felt Christianity lacked intellectual credibility. This background longing, in combination with a susceptible mind and e.g. "He is there and he is not silent" tipped me over the edge.

@georgiancrossroads

Жыл бұрын

@@mikeharrison1868 Interesting. Which edge were you tipped over and why?

@mikeharrison1868

Жыл бұрын

@@georgiancrossroads Over the edge into being born-again. Because of the Schaeffer stuff I thought Christianity did have intellectual credibility after all. (The dope lowered my critical thinking skills.) Then I had a dream in which Jesus was coming back in a 747, and realised that no ordinary person could have a 747 all to themselves(!). Then fear of the hell I'd been taught as a child. So, all tipped over into me praying the sinners prayer, inviting Jesus into my heart, etc., on 12th August 1975. I was overjoyed that the divide between catholics and protestants seemed to be erased in the charismatic movement. Then surprised that the Brethren were vehemently against tounges, etc. Sigh. I believed we should all love one another despite our differences. Sigh. I always had doubts and fears, but steeled myself against them. So I knew that I knew that I knew, whereas the Hare Krishnas, etc. only thought they knew. Then I went to Taiwan to study Mandarin so I could engage in (surreptitious) missionary work in Mainland China. (I'd been inspired by Brother Andrew.) On the way there I visited an island of the coast of Hiroshima, in Japan. I climbed to the top, and there was a temple, with an elderly woman praying. Against my will it struck me that her devotion was just as real to her as mine was to me. In Taiwan I was disappointed that the western denominations had been reproduced there. The church history of the west means that they sort of make sense in the West, but it seemed tragic that those divisions were replicated in non-Western countries.

You should include FSSP, which broke off from SSPX and is in full communion with the Catholic Church. PNCC should be included as branching off from the Union of Utrecht.

I think this is where I finally fall in. I grew up in an Assembly of God church - it's basically just a significantly laid back Pentecostal. They still jump and yell and run and dance and speak in tongues and stuff (think Blues Brothers) but not _everything_ is a "sin" like hardcore, old-fashioned Pentecostal. I guess it's kind of like the Mennonites vs Amish or something lol. I remember when I was a little kid, everything would be quiet and everyone would be praying or something and then, all of a sudden, there was typically this one old guy who would start like yelling in tongues. It would nearly make me piss myself lol. I might be wrong but it seems like with regular Pentecostal, women always have hair down to their ankles, wear dresses pretty much all the time, can't wear make-up, etc. I remember when we were younger, this one hardcore Pentecostal girl who had the extremely long hair, wore dresses below her ankles, etc. would hang out with our group partying and she started "experimenting" with drugs and booze - I think the last time I ever saw her, she was still in her super long, denim skirt but she was walking around pretty wasted with a bare chest lol. I was usually sitting in the tire swing stoned, listening to Pink Floyd when we'd party at that house - I just remember seeing her walk by half naked and thinking, "Okay.. Yep, we've corrupted her.." But my mom's mom was a Pentecostal preacher and my aunt was in some pretty radical - almost like a cult - deal with her, now ex, husband and they were all pretty strict.

Whew! Almost done. Thank you for all the work you have done on this. Excellent job. I disagree with the decision to leave off Westboro and FLDS. History takes the bad with the good. Imagine Ivan the Terrible, Genghis Khan and Nero left off the charts of their respective countries. As well, FLDS is highly significant, politically and internationally.

@Bawhoppen

Жыл бұрын

I agree- removing them doesn't make much sense. If this is an educational tool, and those are well-known topics, then how is removing them justified? Just because they are shown doesn't mean it's celebrating them.

@cswrye

Жыл бұрын

The problem with Westboro is that it's a single church, not a denomination, so it looks out of place on a denominational chart. He said he excluded FLDS because it's too small, which makes sense to me. There's only enough room on the chart to include so many denominations, so I'm not going to fault him for taking out one that is incredibly small.

@Bawhoppen

Жыл бұрын

Of the 3 that were excluded, FLDS is probably the one that should stay the most. It is a small denomination but it's been very impactful. The Branch Davidians are important as well, since they are just so publicly well-known. The Westboro is a single church, so I can understand removing that one more than anything.

@varana

11 ай бұрын

From an non-American perspective, there's a sh** ton of other churches that deserve to be on that poster much more than a few crazy guys mostly known for being media whores. They're too small, they're theologically empty, they barely qualify as a church at this point. This poster already gives undue weight to tons of American mini-churches that are the fringest of fringe movements. We don't need to reinforce that by prominently placing wackos on the chart just because they've been in the media once in a while.

The whole series is marvelous, I've not seen any history of Christianity Churches as informed as this one. Might you explain in the last episode about your sources (certainly English wiki is not nearly enough)?

Wondered about the Christian Scientist placement since it was missing from the last chart. Glad to hear you're including them.

This is such a great series. Questions I've asked for 50+ years are now answered and in well organized bite size bits. A treasure!

Oh my gosh, Matt😢! What a work, of art, of complexity, and yes, clarity. Thank you for what you are doing! I love it! ❤😊

I can't believe you're taking out the Branch Davidians - it was so informative to hear the origin not only of the church but just the phrase that I've heard 1000's of times since Waco.

Excellent work. Further pentecostal/charismatic movements can one mention David Yonggi Cho and his Yoido Full Gospel Church (Assemblies of God) which impacted South Korea greatly. Out of the British New Church movement were the "House Fellowship Movement" and its sister "Covenant Ministries International" (Bryn Jones) quite influential in the UK and abroad from the 80s and up to today.

As someone who belongs to a UK non-denominational church, I think your description is pretty accurate! Knowing what associations a non-denom church has can tell you a lot about that church. We even have voluntary groupings like the Evangelical Alliance, and the Fellowship of Independent Evangelical Churches.

Very interesting, I have enjoyed this series and seeing where the various churches came from.

I love this series. I would love to see similar series on other groups. You do a great job, Matt. Keep it up.

I don't remember you talking about the churches deriving from the Catholic Apostolic Church. I learned recently that the New Apostolic Church is the biggest "free" (as in not catholic or lutheran) church in Germany with around 300,000 members and over 8 million internationally (mostly in Africa). There are others too, but I don't know much about them.

I'm planning to buy a copy of this chart. So, taking a little more time for accuracy is a good thing. I appreciate your research.

@AmericanShia786

Жыл бұрын

I was an Elder in a Church of God Anderson Indiana local fellowship for a few years in the mid-1990s before the body merged with another local COG Anderson fellowship. Our Pastor allowed Pentecostals and even had a Pentecostal Elder. I had been a Pentecostal Holiness Christian, but was moving away from Pentecostal movement. This elder is still a friend and still a Pentecostal Holiness Christian. I became a 12er Shi'ite Muslim in 1999.

I am greatly enjoying this series.

You are doing a great job with this series!

Would you consider adding Eastern Lightning to the Chinese groups? They have over 1-million members (estimated 4 million by the CCP's count). They are also a really interesting group in their own right, due to their leader

No suggestions for additions or subtractions to your work on this subject. But I just wanted to thank you, Mr. Baker, for delving into what turns into such a gigantic, detailed and analytical topic. (I think, at first blush, most people have no idea how deep and wide this topic of Christianity really is, to present day. You most definitely either educated them if they were ignorant or proved them wrong if they thought there was less to the subject than there truly is...lol!!!) Given that you are a (converted) Jew, Mazel Tov for conquering such a large beast in an intellectual and rational way so well.

Great work with the charts! As usual.

Hey Matt thanks for doing all this. I'm a funeral director, so stuff like this is a big help in figuring out who's who in the bereavement zoo, so to speak. A Q: not sure if it's too small or late to include, but where would Swedenborgians fit in? Anyhoo thanks again for the work

@danfsteeple

Жыл бұрын

Non-Nicene

@evanleed1767

Жыл бұрын

They're already on there! :)

I LOVE this series so much.

This is beautiful I love your chart keep the good worker up god bless

Thanks Matt !! Erudite and concise.

Great videos so far! I’ve always been into denominations but you’ve done a great job organizing them in a great way to visualize. I do have a few additions i think would be good to include however. I understand it may be hard to add some of these but im sure some might fit. Couldnt tell what you did add since the last but there are a few denominations i think you should add Independent Catholics: Philippine Independent Church (6 million): a church that separated from Rome in response to persecution from spanish rule, currently in communion with anglicans Apostolic Catholic Church (between 5 and 10 million): similarly a filipino church that began as a lay organization only to split from rome Traditionalist Mexican-American Catholic Church (2 million): broke away from Catholic church over their veneration of the folk saint Santa Muerte, basically a pagan god of death fused with Christianity. Leader went to prison for kidnapping and now the church is not recognized by mexico. They’re pretty liberal and have a presence in mexican american communities Pentecostals: Fangcheng Fellowship (10 million) China Gospel Fellowship (10 million) Foursquare Church (9 million) Ethiopian Kale Heywet Church (9 million) Church of God in Christ (6.5 million) True Jesus Church (2.5 million) Eastern Protestant Churches that either follow from the reformation and have adopted eastern liturgy, or are eastern churches who have reformed from the orthodox Ethiopian-Eritrean Evangelical Church (16.5 million): also important note most Protestant denominations fall under the term P’ent’ay Believers Eastern Church (3.5 million) pentecostal with the West Syrian Rite Mar Thoma Syrian Church (1 million): in communion with anglicans, a St. Thomas Christian community

@jakeaurod

Жыл бұрын

I thought he did the Foursquare Church in this episode at 13:20

@fattymcbuttcheeks7245

Жыл бұрын

@@jakeaurod whoops forgot to delete that one from my list!

7:31 FUN FACT: The C&MA also has a branch covering Western and Central Mindanao as well as the Sulu archipelago in the Philippines.

@davidhunt6508

Жыл бұрын

I made a comment last video about the inclusion of the C&MA. So glad he did(whether or not it was my comment that led to that).

I grew up in the Church of God in Christ. Thank you for putting my denomination up there.

As a fellow Jew, I am so glad to see you place the Messianic Judaism here as well!

You should add Allan Kardec' Spiritism/Kardecism in the chart also. It is considerar by some as the third revelation.

Ah 07:19. It's pronounced "Kezzick", not "Kes-wick". There's plenty of stones like this in British English to trip over :)

@bridgetkennedy3271

Жыл бұрын

Only way I know the correct spelling is there is a neighbourhood in my city that borrows the Keswick name! Super trippy to say and read.

@claireloub

Жыл бұрын

@@billyr2904 Yep, and Wick itself of course. I've just looked it up and scholars are arguing over the etymology of whether it's Viking "vik" an inlet or bay, or Saxon "wic" a small settlement, and apparently there's a whole history of salt-panning in bays and thus later any salt-mines inland still being called wich's. Either way, it's very old and the pronunciation has meandered over the last 1000 years

your work in charting religions is very helpful- can't wait to be able to order this poster!

Thanks for the details!

Another denomination you could add as breaking away from the Foursquare Church is the Pentecostal Missionary Church of Christ (PMCC), also known as 4th Watch. It’s a big denomination in the Philippines and among Filipinos abroad. I have had peers in school invite me to their churches and even though they are Pentecostal, it felt so formal compared to other similar churches.

Could you include Celtic Christianity, and maybe also other Christian adjacent gnostic religions like Manichaeism (extinct) and Mandaeism (extant)? Manichaeism in particular was very influential and was at one point or another in history was practiced almost everywhere from Spain to China.

@kevinklingner7712

Жыл бұрын

They are gnostic belief systems that were early on rightly rejected by the church Fathers.

@lpburrows

Жыл бұрын

“Celtic Christianity” is not a denomination (which is what this chart is of), and it’s mostly an anachronistic projection without historical warrant.

I’d get a splitting headache if I had to do the research for this chart, lol. Kudos to you, Matt and thank you!

Great series I've shared this so much with others.

Kindly request the addition of the Syro Malankara Catholic Church back into your chart. I believe it was present in your first video but was left out in subsequent videos. I am from this denomination hence the request. I have also sent an email with the Family tree of the St. Thomas Christians in India.

Don't forget to add the Unitarians, please.

@despaahana

Жыл бұрын

They're in a previous episode. Check the other replies to comments on this subject for the specific episode.

I am once again asking you to cover Unitarians, Universalists, and Unitarian Universalists.

Thanks much for this video.

I'm glad that you discussed Westboro and Branch Davidians even if it was a good decision to drop them from the final chart. There is great diversity under the umbrella of Christianity, including some that very likely might not be considered so by a great many other Christians, and perhaps even by God (who really knows?). I appreciate this series' approach as a high level overview of history and theological origins (especially since there are a lot of Christian denominations that de-emphasize this history, and even some offer highly suspect revisionist histories).

Nice! Saw the C&MA finally! But here in the Philippines, we consider ourselves evangelical rather than mainline, as you would have defined in this video. In the Philippines, we are called The Christian and Missionary Alliance Churches of the Philippines.

literally my favourite videos from your channel