I have heard your reasoning and my opinion of Clint and Kate has been elevated somewhat. My yearly L's video has the correction: kzread.info/dash/bejne/fWWlx5KYebq5n6g.html

Sam was a pararescueman. The guy jumped out of airplanes to give medical treatment to injured people in dangerous places. There's an entire world of opportunity in that skillset when combined with the mantle of Captain America. You could have an entire super hero danger + medical thing. You could do a whole (timely) struggle with the dichotomy between being a total butt kicker and a total life saver at the same time. But nah...we get preachy punchy.

@darkhighwayman1757

Жыл бұрын

he never got the super soldier serum did he in the show?

@argentaegis

Жыл бұрын

@@darkhighwayman1757 DIdn't watch the show, but I don't think he needs it to be interesting. Steve was a lot of things, but I wouldn't have bet on him having the mindset to graduate medical school. Sam could have been this cool and different kind of thing and we could have still gotten patriotic hero moving toward the danger to rescue people.

@mallorycarpinski1160

Жыл бұрын

He did not get the super soldier serum in the show. They did bring back his background in counseling though which I thought was a great move for making him more than just a "mantle" but then they dropped the ball by the end of the show. Maybe they'll go back to it in the film.

@argentaegis

Жыл бұрын

@@DonaldDonald-gv7ys I don't think it matters that he didn't have powers. Give a guy a jetpack and an invulnerable shield and I think you've got enough comic book in there to make the action doable. You probably can't tell all of the same sorts of stories, but that's a feature for me, not a bug. Sam always struck me as a good person to take up that mantle but I never wanted Steve Part 2.

@iceprism367

Жыл бұрын

Ya know what? I didn't even remember that about his character until I read this comment. I watched about half of the show that was supposed to be about him and you have just given me more info on his character than half of his show did. 😭

That moment in Avengers 2 when Clint says, "Okay, look. The city is flying, we’re fighting an army of robots and I have a bow and arrow. None of this makes sense. But I'm going back out there because it's my job. Okay?" kind of shot him up near the top of my list of favorite Avengers characters. Also, I love archery. But that didn't contribute anything. Honest.

@devonjoseph5467

Жыл бұрын

Natasha and Clint are supposed to be the heart/ human element in a theater group of literally gods, supermen, and mad scientists. Marvel should have explore more of the gritty Clint left over from his time as Ronin while also touching on his insecurity from the comics. How he has to make every shot, because what good is a dude that misses. But nope.

@dustycoward7615

Жыл бұрын

Yep there is something to be said about characters with no powers but are determined to do their job to the best of their ability in order to save lives

@jaysw9585

Жыл бұрын

That line came directly from the Fraction run in the comic. Insanely good comic the TV show is based on.

@nickshelton8561

Жыл бұрын

Hawkeye is basically batman without the money and detective skills. Hawkeye is easily the most underrated character in marvel.

@hahaharvey3068

Жыл бұрын

I also thought the part right after where he thinks about shooting quick silver was the funniest part of the movie and made him one of my favorites they really should have done a spy winter soldier type movie with him and Natasha years ago before they were retired or dead.

What sucks is that Falcon was a great character on his own in the MCU. Sam Wilson had an interesting background that could have been explored (how did he get selected to to use the wings and what were his modern war experiences like? Did he have a prior love or a close friend he lost? Etc.

@clancydowrca

20 күн бұрын

Yep all wasted for the sake of woke! F Disney

I liked the Clint / Kate storyline. She looked up to him and respected him. We don’t see that often in these stories lately. They actually made a decent team up. The way they made her a student of the character was great.

@achimdemus-holzhaeuser1233

Жыл бұрын

I also thought he earned the "to old for this shit" attitude. Then they ruined it in the last episode.

@alpd7638

Жыл бұрын

Hawkeye was the best disney+ show, but agree that the last episode messed it up with typical phase 4 stupidity

@reagan1197

Жыл бұрын

Agreed, she should be the leader of the young avengers

@nischesharma

Жыл бұрын

They fucked kingpin man!!!!

@volt42re

Жыл бұрын

@@reagan1197 It'll probably be Sam Wilson, considering he was already doing some hero stuff. It's just a shame he became the new Captain America instead of the Eagle or just remaining as the Falcon.

"Simply adding Hulk powers to a character that is the anthropomorphic equivalent to the colour beige doesn't suddenly make them interesting." God, I love this line.

@magnaquam

Жыл бұрын

As a guy whose family loves and drinks La Croix, I found your descriptions absolutely hilarious and 💯 accurate.

@DavidMartinez-ce3lp

Жыл бұрын

@@magnaquam how do you pronounce that drink?

@magnaquam

Жыл бұрын

@@DavidMartinez-ce3lp “La-Kroy”. But you have to pronounce it with the same face you make as when you drink it. 😖

@DavidMartinez-ce3lp

Жыл бұрын

@@magnaquam Ok, so I've been doing it correctly then

@magnaquam

Жыл бұрын

@@DavidMartinez-ce3lp either that or we’re both wrong. 😁

It's the part where they call fans racist/sexist if they don't accept a mantle transfer - because Disney can't accept blame for their own failures - that is most damaging. And I don't like what they did in the Black Widow movie, where they made 'Black Widow' a job title instead of a name.

@nont18411

Жыл бұрын

They also made “Thor” a mantle, instead of Thor being the name of a guy Thor Odinson.

@parycartoons6840

Жыл бұрын

"We don't want to know what the WHITE MEN think! They're all racist misogynist! This was made for woman and minorities!," Ok... Well I'm both and I hate all of it cause you're making it very clear that you think the only way to portray woman and minorities as competent and likable is to tear men down and make them pathetic. I feel condescended. I really do.

@Mike_Dubo

Жыл бұрын

​@@nont18411But wasn't that already a thing in the comics? Like, one dude in the 90'sbecame Thor for a bit, than we had Lady Thor in the last decade?

@sssspider

Жыл бұрын

@@Mike_Dubo Just because it originated in the comics doesn’t make it not dumb. Have you seen some of the bullshit that happens in comic books?

@Mike_Dubo

Жыл бұрын

@@sssspider Oh, I know about plenty of idiocy that comics have had over the years, I just put it out there as Disney just using what already was in the comics, not being the ones responsible for the precedant. Lets just be glad they'll never do Avengers #200, and that they basically skipped One More Day.

10:51 Clint is MVP. When the avengers have him on their team, they win. When they don't have Clint, they lose

10:40 I’ll have to straight disagree: Clint’s “ordinary-ness” *is* his superpower: how he has to overcome his guilt from being manipulated by Loki, how he showed the Avengers the importance of (in his case, a literal) family, how he encouraged Wanda to still fight even if the odds are bad, because it is their job. That’s the superpower. ♥️ Everything else, I agree with.

Imagine if Thanos got defeated by ants and a big dumb head in his second appearance. Not very threatening now

@paulman34340

Жыл бұрын

Yeah they basically already ruin kang the conqueror. Even if the defenders go with Oh that was just a variant the fact he was hyped up to be a dangerous variant And he got defeated because the writer's realized they wrote themselves heavily into a corner. The biggest example being showing him using powers and Gadgets that he did not immediately use When he should have. I'm sorry there's only so much you can play the he was arrogant card I'm going to use them immediately and then I'm going to vaporize you. I mean look at thanos He never frequently hesitated to use any of the things he had an access to. Have His armada fire down on the heroes even if it meant hitting his own army A sacrifice he was willing to make to do serious damage to the heroes. Man wasn't even afraid to hurt himself if it meant directly harming the heroes. I mean look what happened in end game when he got his hands on the gauntlet. He was here he even willingly pulled out the power stone Into his bare hands just to knock Mary Sue Marvel Carol a new one! The final battle It was marvelous and I will say end game did top Infinity War with the final battle Because you had the final blows fight everyone and he was shown how he was such a big threat even without the stones. That's how you do a final boss you show just how big Of a threat they are, look at Final fantasy 7 If you beat the Balls before you actually fight the final Boss fast enough. The 1st phase will pretty much have you fighting him with your entire party. Not your top 3 your entire party. I even know a few other games that have you pretty much facing the final boss with everybody. To the point you wonder if you're playing dynasty Warriors with how many of your allies are on screen when normally that doesn't happen. But after aunt man 3, When the final boss fight Of the new bigger bad becomes about. It has to be so awesome that I will forget that entire fiasco of when they got defeated before other variant or not. Ant-Man 3 It's not how you present the bigger bad. H*** Thanos It was teased so heavily in the after credits of many Marvel movies building up to Infinity War. That once he finally got off his chair He was wrecking heroes left To right, steam rolling them. I was even mad when he got killed off so easily and simply at the beginning of End game because well that made sense and it was meant to just show How anti climatic His defeat ended up being. They came preparing for a huge battle with their low numbers but instead ended up beating down an injured broken man With little fanfare. Even door decapitating him did the job it was supposed to do it was meant to be anti clematic what was the point it didn't change anything. If not for Scott They never would have even been able to reverse Everything and the one thing this new phase Basically screwed the pooch on What does it heavily and I mean heavily side steps The issue of everybody coming back to the world being in the state its end. Finding out family members were dead you have to imagine how many who survived committed suicide When they assumed their family members were gone forever help it was addressed in doctor strange 2 with his old colleague at the wedding Having gotten snapped And coming back the pretty much finds his brother pretty much died during the time skip. Some of the new stories should have focused heavily on the consequences of what happens like even if everyone was brought back to life what about those who were snapped when they had the disease or something where they cured did they just come back to life just to die again. Nice questions that will not be answered As they jiggle those freaking keys in front of us Praying for distraction. Some were good but some doesn't change that all of them ultimately sought by the end if you collectively get everything even if you add the good well it's how people are feeling about guardians of the Galaxy volume 3, It was good but sadly because everything else sucked, If you were to give it a letter grade it came up with the entire phase everything would come up D As in I would give it A D plus Only because of the Small good stuff as you pointed out With Hawkeye and volume 3 of guardians of the Galaxy. But honestly I was only watching some of the movies of characters who already there because I wanted to see the conclusions of their story that was it. Disappointed with many of them.

@Kevin-tl1zs

Жыл бұрын

Then he wouldn't be Thanos

@whitemagus2000

Жыл бұрын

And got killed by an alternate of an alternate of a support character in his first appearance.

@nalaka3488

Жыл бұрын

Sometimes I wish thanos won, just so phase 4 and 5 never happened

@shironasama0445

Жыл бұрын

Easily the stupidest part of Quantumania

Honestly... Kate's arc about wanting to *_be_* Hawkeye is pretty relatable because at one point we've all wanted to be our fav superhero. Just in this instance Kate had a personal connection with Hawkeye (seeing him fight during the battle of N.Y. and then picking up archery because of that)

Kate and Clint have an interesting equilibrium because they are so different as a character. He is blue collar and rural. Just doing a job to provide for his family while trying to make good in the world. As I said in another thread, he is Danny Glover's character in Lethal Weapon. I assumed I would hear Clint say "I'm too old for this sh*t" in his own show. Kate is white collar and urban. She is a trust fund baby from Manhattan. She learned her craft by having parents pay for expensive lessons and boarding schools. The fact that she sees Clint as a mentor is a big character arc for both. And why it works.

Talking about how Captain America was a PR stunt reminded me of the first film where Captain America was a LITERAL PR STUNT. He was mainly used as morale until Steve stepped up as a soldier. With Sam Wilson being a PR stunt, Captain America has gone full circle with an adjacent in US Agent.

We are living in an age that values superficial stuff over real content, not because of stupidity, but due to complete ignorance. We're seeing everywhere people cutting a slice of bread , slamming on some cheese and tomato , putting it into the microwave for some time, then "Here's your pizza!", and when you complain about that not being pizza, they go screaming "You racist/sexist/homophobe/whatever! What's wrong about my pizza? Pizza is bread , tomato and cheese! SO if you don't like it you're at fault!". They're CLUELESS. I cannot really think that, the level of insanity is caused by real and only malice, it goes too deep. It's the corporate approach to product gone extreme. They dress whatever they see in a costume that they think an audience might like and throw it on the market, it fails and what do they do? change the costume and throw it again on the market. It's clearly the wrong people calling the shots, we have marketing managers in the same room as videogame designer deciding what a game should look like. It's like having a baker in an engineering room deciding how to build a rocket. But they fail to see it,they think that creativity is just something everyone has, more or less, and the real knowledge of the craft is secondary. As long as this mentality reigns, we will keep getting cheap copies of what really could have been. Just my 2 cents.

@rileyowen7245

Жыл бұрын

👍 perfect you deserve more likes

@yomanyo327

Жыл бұрын

I mean, it's missing ham and oregano, obviously.

@Truth_SeekR

Жыл бұрын

I agree with your comment but stopped reading cuz I don't agree that you should be allowed to use so many characters. Don't do that

@DavidMartinez-ce3lp

Жыл бұрын

@@yomanyo327 Pepperoni

@yomanyo327

Жыл бұрын

@@DavidMartinez-ce3lp That too. a real Meatlovers experiance.

Alanzo's mantle theory: "Anyone can be Ironman". I suppose anyone can superficially assume that title, but Tony Stark is Ironman and no one else is Tony Stark.

@iceprism367

Жыл бұрын

Honestly I don't think we need a "new Iron Man", just someone who can fill his role in a team. The new conflict has to center around someone. I think Strange would've probably worked well if they knew how to utilize him. The multiverse could've been his thing, but I feel like they've barely touched on his actual character even in his own movies. He's almost sidelined for younger characters when he could've been the main focus of the new phase.

@majorgear1021

Жыл бұрын

Truth.

@LiorVolf

Жыл бұрын

​@@iceprism367 Exactly!

@natperXD

Жыл бұрын

You know what's funny, didn't Stan Lee say almost the say the same thing about Spiderman's costume. Though what he actually said was "anyone could be under that mask." Similar to Ratatouille where Anton Ego talks about Chef Gusteau's quote "anyone can cook."

@majorgear1021

Жыл бұрын

@@natperXD Nope.

Hawkeye knew that he was just a guy with a bow hanging out with other guys who were massively powerful, but he made himself useful, not indispensable, but useful. As far as I'm concerned he should be respected. There is so much they could have done with him, but like everything else in Phase 4, they squandered that potential.

I see Kate as more of a Robin to Clint's Batman than an outright successor. She's generally a pretty respectful student of her personal hero, Also her idolization of him was rather great for his "be kinder to yourself" arc.

@gregowen2022

Жыл бұрын

I can see the batman and robin analogy, that's pretty good. I guess we'll see where she goes with this young avenger trend

@dewdecsysabz5323

10 ай бұрын

@@gregowen2022that and she falls over a lot. We don’t see that with most liberal woke shi when it comes to girly heroes. It shows she’s a woman and an actual human too.

@shadowbane7401

4 ай бұрын

and we all know robin becomes nightwing

I agree with most of the points you make in your content. But i disagree with you on th topic of Clint Barton not being interesting. Without delving into the tragedy of his character from the comics, the movies make him interesting by making him a regular at first glance. Its easy to dismiss him as a cheesy Olympic level archer with some gadget arrows. Howeverr, i think him being a highly trained hybrid of James Bond and Robinhood who was probably the biggest baddest rockstar hero before people started showing up with superpowers IS the interesting angle. And the fact that he's aware of how ridiculously outclassed he is by the other Avengers but still tries to pitch in and make a difference is what makes him a true hero. Just ask Stan Lee.

@gregowen2022

Жыл бұрын

I think the show did a lot to deepen his charcter, but in terms of fan favorites, it was too late to rank him high on most lists. The comments are in support of him, though. The show boosted him

@thepubknight6144

Жыл бұрын

​​@@gregowen2022 even thou i liked shehulk as a intelligencia fan , they really took the low hanging fruit and decided to troll the men you spoke of who didnt get why patrick batman or tyler durden werent heros or idols and didnt understand the movie's point that they were toxic masculinity traits (same ones who funny enough constantly cry about toxic feminity) by making it a anti woman incel group then they just forgot that and tried to put it back on whatever the plot was for the whole show why did they think that wouldnt offend everyone even fans of the show called that out ....thats something teenagers do to get over on people or internet trolls not a billion dollar studio after having about the pr backstorys and the firing of the person who wanted to force diversity hires and mantle plots now it makes sense why all of the crap has been going on

@morizanova

Жыл бұрын

The problem with Cliff is direct comparison with Green Arrow which arguably already established in viewer`s head space for better or worse . His solo comic also never showing that he was worth for Solo Featured movies or dedicated series . I would argue that Winter Soldier ( with Sebastian Stan) will be better option if Studio ever thinking to make a gamble move

@edmorris4103

Жыл бұрын

Well said. 100% agree. I know I'm the minority here, but Clint Barton is my favorite Avenger specifically because he's not special.

@chrisvainio

Жыл бұрын

⁠@@morizanovaI really enjoyed the original Fraction/Aja run with the tracksuit mafia. It’s a fun ride.

Clint is not just my favorite Avenger, he is my favorite super hero and the reason I've collected Avengers comics since the 70s. Modern audiences hate Clint because he can't destroy planets with his eyeballs, which is one of the reasons I loved him. But to remind you of the point you thought you were making, Clint was great because of who he was, not what he can do.

@masterosiris7506

Жыл бұрын

EXACTLY! Besides having adamantium balls, as shown in AOU. Quote: "Hey, look at me. It’s your fault, it’s everyone’s fault. Who cares? Are you up for this? Are you? Look, I just need to know. Because the city is flying. Okay. Look, the city is flying, we’re fighting an army of robots, and I have a bow and arrow. None of this makes sense. But I’m going back out there because it’s my job. Okay? And I can’t do my job and babysit. It doesn’t matter what you did or what you were. If you go out there, you fight, and you fight to kill."

@lordmortarius538

Жыл бұрын

I grew up learning archery and got damn good at it, and then I saw there were superheroes who did the same thing: Hawkeye and Green Arrow, and I instantly loved them. Easily my favorites, because I saw that if they could do it, so could I.

Kate Bishop was a good character. She had a good arc, although the last episode could have been better. There wasn't enough time spent on King Pin imo. Either they should have had a different final villain or another season.

@grahamstrouse1165

7 ай бұрын

Hawkeye was surprisingly good, IMO. I liked Old Man Clint & Kate & I liked Yelena. It helped, I think, that Jeremy, Hailee & Florence are genuinely superb actors. Hailee Steinfeld won an Oscar for No Country for Old Men when she was 13 or 14 & Jeremy Renner had a couple nominations. This was back before the awards got completely political. Florence Pugh is also a terrific character actor. (I didn’t like the new version Kingpin but we can talk about that another time.)

It's ironic that you showed a clip of Kate during the description of the issue of character versus mantle when out of all of the new heroes, she's the only one that they even bother trying to characterize. I'd even say they succeeded. Hawkeye had a lot of issues, but the way they handled Kate Bishop was one of the show's high points.

Yeah, Clint doesn’t have powers. And he knows he isn’t in the same weight class as Thor, Hulk, Ironman, or their foes. He struggles with it. But he keeps on getting up and going out there. That’s what makes him awesome.

@antonioyeats2149

Жыл бұрын

Good call. Litterally the same bit that made muemen rider in OPM such a compelling subplot

You shoot your argument in the foot by saying Hawkeye isn't interesting while listing off the other avenger's powers. He's interesting because he's an interesting character. Powers don't matter.

@gagelindell271

Жыл бұрын

Hes not interesting at all. Totally lame.

@tonybriggs280

Жыл бұрын

​@Gage Lindell writing to let you know that you're still wrong a day later.

@gagelindell271

Жыл бұрын

@@tonybriggs280 Dumbest. Comment. On. KZread. Well. Done!

@ottta2

Жыл бұрын

Hawkeye was just a dude who shot arrows, like cool?

@bestaround3323

Жыл бұрын

I mean neat, that's like 1 character out of 5? Still not great

You know why I like Kate Bishop? We want our heroes to be inspiring, and she shows how actually inspired by Hawkeye. And it's not just stupid fangirling, like Ms Marvel, she's actually fleshed out and her relationship with Clint is great over the show. She is what I would be if I lived in the MCU, I identify with her, even though I'm not a girl.

I think there's another factor at work. Stan Lee required Marvel movies be true to his comics' basic values, in plot and in theme. The stories had core values from our greatest generation and he developed the heroes' character traits so that each of us would find someone to identify with, to emulate. The movies, ending with Endgame kept the main thing the main thing.

@scottb3034

Жыл бұрын

Lee had no power and hasn't had any power in Marvel for 40 years. What made them work is they did bother to be somewhat loyal to the characters' personalities but the stories they chose to use were fairly safe, they didn't dip deep into their progressive catalogue and kept the experimentation to stuff like Guardians of the Galaxy. Most of the great stories they used were recent (Winter Soldier, Age of Ultron and Civil War were post-2000 storylines) or iconic stuff NOT written with the greatest generation in mind (Infinity Gauntlet, etc). Marvel thought they had the power to experiment because they were untouchable at the box office for almost a decade and so went into agenda'd or experimental storytelling, they were wrong. I also feel the death of Chadwick Boseman screwed up their plans immensely as he was due to be the face of the post Endgame universe.

Agree to disagree, Clint was the most relatable Avenger and my favorite. He was a military guy who was so good with a bow, given the proper upgrade he could use it like a sniper rifle. That's not "just a bow", but compared to the rest he's the closest to the average joe/jane. Others powers are certainly more desirable, I'll agree with that.

@masterosiris7506

Жыл бұрын

In the first movie he and a bunch of goons 100% f-up the entire helicarrier, almost killing everyone (except for Hulk and maybe Cap) so, yeah, not as lame as everyone likes to think. Also, according to the lore of the movies he nailed Linda Cardellini, f-ing legend.

@morganjohnson539

Жыл бұрын

In WWII the US Army used Hollywood archers as part of special operations. In the Western movies, these guys were behind the camera shooting at small blocks under the actors' shirts often while they're on horseback. They had to be real good at their job! So in modern combat their skills were valuable in sneaking spies into occupied Europe. They would snipe German beach sentries with a silent kill from the bow of a bouncy small boat. Later my father learned archery as part of his Green Beret skills for the jungles of Vietnam. Thus, when I hear anyone say "just a bow" I smile.

@devonjoseph5467

Жыл бұрын

Not to shit on the video because I do think his point are accurate, but to be critical of the Hawkeye line... it does seem hypocritical to make the (very correct) assertion that people feel in live with characters and not the powers and just pushing powers on to mediocre characters doesn't add and benefit to the plot as a whole. While shitting on Hawkeye, a person with no powers who ultimately has the most underrated character arc and relationships with the team. Who took out the SHIELD Heli carrier with a couple of goons and arrows? Like who gave the Avengers a place to hideout during AOU? Who not only gave wisdom to Wanda but also came to free her during Civil War? Risked his whole life and retirement to join the fight, only to be jailed? Like Clint and Natasha are supposed to be best friends but she didn't go looking for him for five years after the snap? Marvel and other people stay forgetting about Clint and its nuts.

I don't think it will change because while Victoria is gone, the philosophy still lingers. There is a classic webcomic where a girl is writing something down and talks about the protagonist of her new story and proceeds to rattle off a list of traits (like gay, "of color", disabled, etc). Her roommate then asks, "but what about their character?" To which the author replies, "their what?" Look I was there, it's a common factor for new writers to list down "traits" of their characters. I remember doing it. The key is that you're supposed to grow out of it. Too many storytellers of the current pop culture landscape seem stuck in the above mode and never able to think of a character beyond their traits. I know I've run across people in the past who didn't understand how a character is not their traits which is why I recommend Mr. Plinkett's "character test" from the review of Episode 1. Strip away the traits, dig deep, get to the core of the character. If you have nothing once the traits are stripped away, then you have a prop - not a character. P.S. Clint became beloved when it was revealed he was a devoted family man. There are a LOT of fans of his out there - many dreaming of being Mrs. Hawkeye.

@DavidMartinez-ce3lp

Жыл бұрын

True, it's completely infected Disney and the IPs they own.

@mirceazaharia2094

Жыл бұрын

Great comment. Will take a look at that review, thanks. Gold to see Mr Plinkett has become something of an Internet icon.

@natperXD

Жыл бұрын

This sounds similar to what Cap said to Ironman "Without the suit, what are you?" So it's pretty funny how Marvel basically made all their new characters basically suits without thinking about the people wearing them despite having this plotline for Ironman (cause this does get explored more in Ironman 3 I think).

@MegaMilenche

Жыл бұрын

@@natperXD In return, Cap was nothing without the genetic experiment.

@frostbite_711

Жыл бұрын

I agree 100%. I once mentioned to a group that I dislike characters who become a "token" character. Where the only thing that defines them is their race/gender/sexuality/religion. A good character has a personality and motivation beyond the superficial things. We also need to see how a character's life is hard, show their struggles so we can connect instead of preaching to us about "how I've been discriminated against". For example, with Steve, we saw his desire to fight and join the war, to stop the Nazis because he hated bullying. We saw how he put his own life at risk and was innovative while the rest of his training squad were more along the lines of the typical "jock". For Clint, we saw how he had a family that he wanted to protect. During the Blip, he became a cold killer because he'd lost his family. He lost his way, and at first didn't want to come back, but was eventually convinced to help the rest of the avengers bring everyone back. We don't have to see someone's entire life, but we need to see their struggles so we can emphasize and connect with them. If all you show is someone who complains about how their life is worse than another person because of things that are again, superficial, then all you have is a blank character that little to no one cares about.

The internet has spoken and I have severely underestimated poor Clint's popularity. That's one in the L column for me 😂😅

@613harbinger316

Жыл бұрын

It's kind of funny considering the whole conversation regarding mantles vs. strong characterization. Clint has a relatively small mantle of power but a ton of characterization. Therefore, he should be loved, or at least appreciated, by a lot of fans.

@h0ll0w0ne

Жыл бұрын

I mean, disregarding the fact that he is just a cool dude with a nice family and all that. Clint as no powers and he keeps up with the avengers. That's pretty bad ass. Superman said so (about Batman but it translates).

@firefiy8789

Жыл бұрын

Yeah. Hawkeye is my fave, because he is so human compared to the other avengers. You really should have included that in the early part of the video - character comes before superpowers

@rainmorga

Жыл бұрын

Korg? Noone likes Taika Waititi's mouthpiece...

@marlsberlin7716

Жыл бұрын

Must have been bots. Everybody who has seen the first two phases and me are indifferent to Clint at best, and hate him at worst. The most useless "hero" ever seen. And I must say that Renner wasn't even making an effort either, for a guy with an Oscar, he was bland most of the time, and the rest plain bad.

Hawkeye has always been one of my favourites (before movies). I've always liked archery and gadgets, so a hero who uses trick-arrows, awesome! Not to mention he's the ultimate underdog! A circus performer turned criminal who later joins a team of tech geniuses, mutant monsters and Gods! Even though he's just a normal human with a bow, he's been a core member of the averages in almost every iteration. He's earned his place as one of earths greatest heroes, and one of my favourites. Beats out Green Arrow by miles!

10:32 You obviously missed the boat when many MCU fans complained "Where was Clint during Infinity War?" Russo were compelled to put Clint in the 1st scene of Endgame.

@oliviastratton2169

Жыл бұрын

Actually, the Russos said that they filmed the scene of Clint losing his family for Infinity War. But ended up cutting it and used it to open Endgame instead.

You have nailed it. To me the Avengers ran its course and Endgame, while not the best finish, was a finish and closed it out. Yes, ppl cared about the characters, and ppl cared what happened to them and that is likely why in the finale the other phases have not done as well. There will not be another Iron man as well as the others. Most don't care about the power, race and gender swapped bunch.

@thehumancomet

Жыл бұрын

100% agree. People cried watching Endgame because it felt like saying goodbye to people who had been like family for 10 years.. These mantle swaps are like home invaders wearing the ID tags of the people we miss. Just not gonna work.

@DavidMartinez-ce3lp

Жыл бұрын

I'd argue only Tony really got an ending. Cap's ending makes no sense. Black Widow died. Thor was just reset, so he could find himself all over again over 20 films in. Pretty much reinvented as a Guardian of the Galaxy because they had no clue what to do with him. Hulk was turned into a joke, and had no arc. Pretty much wrote away the most interesting half of the character.

@kevincarr3213

Жыл бұрын

@@DavidMartinez-ce3lp True, I do have to agree with you. What should have happened was give each an actual end. It didn’t have to be long and drawn out. What they have created is a mess.

@DavidMartinez-ce3lp

Жыл бұрын

@@kevincarr3213 Exactly, they all needed a conclusion to their arcs across the first 3 phases. A true jumping off point.

@majorgear1021

Жыл бұрын

Infinity War was the perfect ending. Ok, Thanos should have snapped again , but otherwise it was great.

I loved the second hawkeye. You do connect with her skills and struggles, and with her bonding time with clint. I would say out of all of them her and yelena functioned the best and felt the most grounded as heroes who earned their mantles.

@BiggieTrismegistus

9 ай бұрын

Kate Bishop is one of the new more diverse mantle swaps that really worked. Her comics was actually really good.

Clint is the grounded everyman of the Avengers. He kept the human element for all the other, more dramatic characters stable. He isn't anyone's favorite, but he was an important part of the team.

Seriously. I keep asking myself how much money those companies have to lose for them to understand that this "Identity Politics" bullshit doesn't work.

@613harbinger316

Жыл бұрын

It takes a loooong time to turn an aircraft carrier around. Even more so when it's going full bore. There's still a lot of momentum and money being made with the MCU, just not as much, so there's little motivation from the Hollywood machine to stop. And all the while you have activists and ideologues on the inside doing their best to spread _The Message._ It's going to take some time. This is how I see California (my state) and how much the left can afford to push it's resource-sucking, parasitic agenda. California is a HUGE state with lots of natural resources and an economy equivalent to some modern countries. It'll take a lot of damage to really hurt it, and all the while the left can pretend it's crappy agenda is doing no harm (although I admit San Francisco is looking really bad).

@amadeusagripino6862

Жыл бұрын

They'll never stop, not until Blackrock and other ESG funds ceases to exist

@gregowen2022

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, it's going to be another couple years at least, since they are already making a bunch of products that have this idea baked in. The investors almost had a successful revolt, but Iger uttered the magic word Dividend and everyone was too greedy to care about the brand being blown to bits

@majorgear1021

Жыл бұрын

All the money. They intend on dying on this hill.

@tylerharris7081

Жыл бұрын

The leadership of the companies are surrounded by shallow activists and cowardly yes men who keep telling them it will be worthwhile. Any criticism of this forced diversification is dismissed as a bunch of bigoted trolls. They really think most people love the tokenized characters.

"Congratulations, Falcon. We are now upgrading you to white man" - that's what this mantle thing is. Screw creating new characters, just upgrade them to the white person they're replacing. That is what they did in the comics (look at "the totally awesome hulk) and what they were obviously going to do in the movies. The comics failed, and the movies are going down the same path

@gregowen2022

Жыл бұрын

Exactly! All they did with the falcon winter soldier show was tell the audience that A) white people are better and their position is desireable, and B) black people's lives are 100% struggle, they aren't complex humans. It was just gross

@BiggieTrismegistus

9 ай бұрын

Sam Wilson is just fine as Falcon and Captain America is Steve Rogers. That's all there is to it. For that matter Amadeus Cho was great as Amadeus Cho. _Incredible Hercules_ is one of my favorite comics ever because of the chemistry between him and Herc.

I think mantles can be passed... But the characters that are going to take up the mantle have to go thru their own heroes journey to get to the point where they are worthy... Bucky should have been the new Cap... His journey proved his character would respect the mantle... Falcon is a good character as he is and didn't need to be given the mantle until Bucky was either corrupted, broken, or killed, then he would've taken up the Cap mantle in respect to his friend Bucky after all they've gone through to become friends... IMHO

@natperXD

Жыл бұрын

I think Falcon getting the mantle makes sense because Cap probably just wanted Bucky to rest. I mean the dude has fought in a war, been brainwashed, and had to deal with getting dusted. Plus, he has some ptsd, so probably not the best to have the mantle. Falcon also does prove himself by helping Steve in the The Winter Solder without having any real powers and just doing the right thing. But they could have handled Falcon getting the mantle better.

@BiggieTrismegistus

9 ай бұрын

Marvel and DC have been doing mantle swaps for decades and they almost never really take. "Robin" going from Dick Grayson to Jason Todd to Tim Drake to Damian Wayne has worked. Wally West became The Flash because DC committed to keeping Barry Allen dead for 2 decades. I guess Scott Lang is established as Ant-Man now but I can't really think of any others.

There's only one way to make the mantle method work and sometimes it comes in the form of animation. In JoJo's Bizzare Adventure, the main protagonists are relatives of a guy named Johnathan Joestar, these characters follow in his footsteps and borrow certain traits about him but AREN'T clones of him. For example his grandson Joseph is intelligent, Joseph's grandson Jotaro is heroic and so forth and so on. You have the spirit of the original but also a character establishing themselves as their own person. Another example is in Arcane, the short version is that there is a guy named Vander who formally was a boxer, he has an adopted daughter named Vi who borrows a lot of his fighting techniques from him. As Vi's story progresses, she is shown to be VERY different from Vander but as his daughter, his spirit is in her. In the final fight scene in Season 1, she hears his ghost talk to her. So in short, Vi is allowed to be her own person AND not overshadow nor eclipse Vander's legacy.

@bremjo7929

Жыл бұрын

The Arcane example isn’t great, simply because Vander isn’t a character we really care about or spend a lot of time with, but the JoJo’s example is perfect. All the main characters (other than the first) are based on the exact same alignment of “morally grey but well intentioned”. The show itself refers to it more as them being a delinquent with a heart of gold. That being said, every single Joestar takes this to a new height. Joseph is probably the least morally grey, as he mostly just gets into shenanigans you’d expect from a teenager. Jotaro ups it slightly by being alot more destructive in his actions. Josuke seperates these two sides into different personalities, one is super gentle and caring, while the other is ruthlessly explosive. Giorno is the most grey character, as he literally kills his opponents and takes over the mafia, but he does it to stop drugs being sold to children - a very noble cause. Jolyne is an actual criminal that that tries to stop someone else from doing something even worse. All these characters have the exact same backbone, but none of them even remotely seem repetitive or lazy. The fact that JoJo’s can get it right 8 times in a row with the exact same framework shows just how lazy and bad Disney has gotten

Your comment about Clint i think is applicable to the first Avenger. I think they realize they couldn't make the archer compete with gods in terms of Coolness, so they gave him more depth, introducing his family and a more vulnerable side of him, using that fact later in the Thanos saga. He was lame in the First Avenger, but it became someone relatable in the second movie. They tried to give Natasha depth in the same movie, but it didn't work (in my opinion). There's a line in the Hawkeye show, when Kate is talking about his brand, you can apply that to his marketing approach after the first Avenger. Overall, i think the good compensate for the bad in the Hawkeye show. It was the only fase four i enjoyed

@michaelmurphy2112

Жыл бұрын

Then they made Clint self aware about how out of his depth he is in his pep talk to Wanda during Age of Ultron. He admits he's just a guy wit ha weapon from the Stone Age fighting gods and monsters and he doesn't belong there, but he's going to fight because the people needed to be protected. I think that speech is when he became my favorite.

@errorcode6168

Жыл бұрын

As I recall, Clint first showed up in Thor's first movie, not Cap's.

@michaelmurphy2112

Жыл бұрын

@@errorcode6168 Yes he did. He was briefly in Thor at the "hammer site". I don't think he was in the first Captain America at all

@billmartinson4205

Жыл бұрын

@@michaelmurphy2112 And in his debut he had a great line that made me like him right away. He's perched high, talking to Fury on comms and watching Thor (an unknown intruder to them) kick everyone's ass. At some point he makes a comment about how they need to wrap this up quickly because "I'm starting to root for this guy." I didn't even have a clue who he was or even that a character named Hawkeye existed, but that line made me like Clint before I even knew who he was.

@scottb3034

Жыл бұрын

@@michaelmurphy2112 I was confused as well but they seemed to mean First Avengers movie not Cap's film.

Is hard to understand how a company that took TENS of years to create iconic characters recognized in almost anywhere in the world by adults and children could just destroy then WILLINGLY in 5 or less!

@RandyMarsh0301

Жыл бұрын

They made the mistaken of trying to rush to get back on schedule. The pandemic screw up their schedules and now they're pumping out content like it never happened.

@andrewnigo61

Жыл бұрын

They also made the mistake of letting themselves be bought by Bob Iger. Marvel under Disney should never have happened.

@nimz8521

Жыл бұрын

It is owned by a company who made their brand on family values and has done a complete 180 on that and doesn't understand how that alienated their core audience. So there is that.

@emsnewssupkis6453

Жыл бұрын

The key here was 'sold to DISNEY' like Star Wars and Star Trek

@joet7136

Жыл бұрын

Greedy capitalists intent on squeezing as much money as possible as quickly as possible. Long term thinking is not part of their dna.

The problem with these characters is that, they aren't characters they're just vessels for any political opinion the writer and or producer has. And their biggest struggle is "knowing how cool they're and why they have the superior power"

I'm the most hype about kate bishop. I found her likeable as a character outside of just her abilities. And her show was great

Alonso was just following what the comics did in 2016. The craziest part was it clearly didn’t work back then so idk why anyone thought it would work in the movies

I do not see Marvel Studios course-correcting any time soon (even with the firing of Victoria Alonso) because all of the Disney brands are engaging in mantle-swapping. Rey is mantle-swapped Luke Skywalker. They even gave her his name. Bo Katan is mantle-swapped Din Djarin. Cruz Ramirez is mantle-swapped Lightning McQueen. This phenomenon is even happening behind the scenes. John Lassetter was mantle-swapped out for Jennifer Lee. Tim Allen was mantle-swapped out for Chris Evans. Alonso might have been the champion of the mantle method at Marvel Studios, but the entire ideology appears to be completely embedded into the corporate culture.

@DavidMartinez-ce3lp

Жыл бұрын

True, it's all over Disney

@balu2567

Жыл бұрын

Let's enjoy the destruction of Disney, atleast it will make a good story for a movie

@lancethefilmguy9392

Жыл бұрын

​@@balu2567 The Rise & Fall of the House of Mouse

@scottb3034

Жыл бұрын

marvel has championed mantle swapping for decades, DC even before that. this is not new.

@DavidMartinez-ce3lp

Жыл бұрын

@@scottb3034 but they used to know how to actually do it properly

Part of the problem is that once you get past a few characters everybody is just generic superstrength and ray beams.

The first Avengers comics I picked up in the '70s, featured Clint Barton/Hawkeye. Hawkeye was my favorite Avenger, he was someone I could be, if I trained enough. An Ex-villain, looking to change sides. So when he clashes with Iron Man (over a misunderstanding) and takes him down, he proclaims it his audition to join the team. No super power, just skill. And being an ex-villain, gave him a "cool" factor, that Green Arrow didn't have.

One major problem with She-hulk is that they tried to jump straight to the John Byrne stuff without establishing the character and her struggles (and I don't mean the stuff she ranted about in the show). Before we got to the Byrne stuff, she had to live with not being able to control the transformation just like Bruce did. She had to live in fear of being found out because the people who had seen her had thought to was an uncontrolable monster like her cousin was. it was a good while before she could live a somewhat normal life without hiding what she had become. THEN she joined the Avengers and she really came into her own, Stopped being afraid of what she was and embraced it and felt liberated. THEN she spent time as one of the Fantastic Four before going off on her own fun fourth wall breaking adventures. You can't skip straight to the Four Wall Breaking adventures until you have firmly established who she is and what she's been through to get there. But that's lazy Disney Marvel for ya

@BiggieTrismegistus

9 ай бұрын

Great point but I think they were going more for the Dan Slott stuff than the John Byrne stuff.

I actually like Falcon in the MCU. He is vastly different from the main Comics. I like the veteran who responded to a new call to action, to help Captain America Steve Rogers. He's funny and he actually acts like a modern veteran.

@antonioyeats2149

Жыл бұрын

For sure. I was actually excited to see that particular mantle pass because it's pretty much the only one that actually makes any sense whatsoever. They still fucked it all up though 😂

@vernonhampton5863

Жыл бұрын

@@antonioyeats2149 if you really watch the show, it stank of re-writes. Even the "do better" speech was tacked on. Also, I think as hacky as it was, Sam was right and coming from the right place as a guy who couldn't get a loan... because he was dead.

@antonioyeats2149

Жыл бұрын

@@vernonhampton5863 lol I'll take your word for it. I've gathered enough from random clips to know trying to actually sit through the show would just piss me off

@vernonhampton5863

Жыл бұрын

@@antonioyeats2149 fair enough. There's plenty of other stuff to enjoy.

@MarvinPowell1

Жыл бұрын

@Vernon Hampton Except when he ignored and antagonized a fellow soldier, who clearly had PTSD, in John Walker, despite it LITERALLY being his day job to be a combat veteran counselor, most likely merely due to his race. That's like being a doctor and refusing to save an injured person on the street on your day off because "that coon probably voted for Obama." That's how badly they f**k up Falcon in that horrendous Disney+ show.

Sam is the only one I’m totally fine with taking up the mantle. Steve Rogers is the man you want in your corner. Sam Wilson is the man Steve Rogers wanted in HIS corner. When SHIELD, the government, and even his fellow Avengers were against him, could count on Sam to support him.

@tylerharris7081

Жыл бұрын

I agree Sam represented the best of the modern American Soldier. He was a good choice to carry on Cap's legacy. Until the show decided his most important trait was his skin color.

_They know something's wrong, but they don't know what._ The entire MCU fanbase, in unison: *Tells them to stop the woke crap and tokenized characters. Marvel: No, that's not it... The fanbase: No, really. We tried telling the actual comic book part of this industry this for years, and now it's on the brink of death. Marvel: It's racism!

Not going to lie. I had to pause the video for how funny it is that the internet proved you wrong about Clint. And yes. I pick him too. Clint's a great avenger. Especially when you consider when he can be on par with Gods, despite his abilities are something as simple as Super bows and great accuracy.

@gregowen2022

Жыл бұрын

Haha, I've been wrong in the past, but I can't remember being THAT wrong. It was too funny not to include

I do not know why Marvel does not turn to some of the comic book writers that made comics great back in the 80s and 90s and who are still around to write some of these movies or to mentor new writers in the art of storytelling. You are 100% right here and it is a shame they are wrecking such a huge cash cow with crappy movies and lousy TV shows. The only reason why these suits up at Marvel/Disney realise something is wrong is because the profits have now become deficits, but the money is out there, just like John Wick 4 and the Super Mario Bros movie have shown. It may be too late for them now. I really did like X-Men: Days of Future Past (I know it is from a different studio). I wonder if they are going to screw up Deadpool. But I do know that the new Avengers with this bland cast is going to be horrendous... Sigh...

@evos469

Жыл бұрын

Because the current owners of Marvel are run by femnazis and their agenda

@Tyler_W

Жыл бұрын

It's because Hollywood doesn't actually respect comic books and their creators. Marvel Studios, if I'm not mistaken, actually had a kind of story group that saw to appropriate characterization and figuring out how to best take inspiration from the comics that best suited what these movies were trying to accomplish, but that went out the window when Kevin Fiege gained greater autonomy around 2015-2016 around the end of Phase 2, beginning of Phase 3, when Bob Iger removed Ike Perlmutter as a moderating influence. (Fiege would then answer directly to Iger at the top of the food chain instead of reporting to Perlmutter who was the final decision man.)

@JohnSmith-bz9be

Жыл бұрын

@@Tyler_W Very interesting and good to know. Cheers

@brah9649

Жыл бұрын

Ego and agenda. That’s why

@fuzzblightyear145

Жыл бұрын

because these new movies have to send, the quote the Drinker, "...The Message'

11:02 My favorite Clint moment was actually in Age of Ultron when he basically says part of this. He’s like “none of this makes sense…there’s robots…we’re flying…I have a bow and arrows”

They do such poor service to their new characters and then blame us the audience when we don’t like it.

The problem is new characters. Just that. You cannot retire main characters. Recast them if the actors dont want to return. Imagine DC retiring superman, batman and replace then with robin, superboy.

Disney knows what the problem is, but they keep doubling down on it because their balls are in a Blackrock vise.

The other issue with the new characters is that none of them have the sort of moral formation that the original three had - or even that Star Lord, Doctor Strange, and Black Panther had. They are cardboard cut outs, and then on top of that they are written like villains (arrogant, selfish, overconfident)

Thank you for this video. I had already noticed this problem, but you described it so much better than I could have, and now I have a great new term to use when talking about it.

I am pissed at how Jen was portrayed. Why not show her as one of the victims of the blip? She was a young lawyer when she blinked and five years went by. You can have the show show her struggle to adapt to the change. And then somehow got the powers. Boom, better background.

@DavidMartinez-ce3lp

Жыл бұрын

Because then she wouldn't be a strong independent female lady girl

@moresnacksplease526

Жыл бұрын

They could solve so many problems around re-booting the MCU, streaming content, story-lines, creativity, and subscribers if they did a special like 'Werewolf by Night' for each of the X-Men, but that would be smart and deviating from the formula, so it'll never happen.

@antonioyeats2149

Жыл бұрын

Lol not even a terrific idea but the bars so, so, so low that it sounds brilliant at this point

@moresnacksplease526

Жыл бұрын

@@antonioyeats2149 It's common sense. They could build The Brotherhood of Mutants at the same time and double the toy sales.

@antonioyeats2149

Жыл бұрын

@@moresnacksplease526 common sense definitely doesn't mean what you think it means my friend. What it is, is low hanging fruit that could be thought up in a 6th grade English classroom could have thought up. The point is its STILL better than what was actually ran

A couple of things here. They are technical. I hope this info goes far and wide. And ppl, share it with friends and marvel s(A)tans. Hard. IF you have time other than having a main focus on Jesus Captain America: took a super soldier serum. It upped his body to the next level, not just his strength, agility, stamina, recovery from stab/gun shot wounds, but his brain. He is able to make more advanced calculations on the fly. It's why he knows the amount of strength and power needed to make his shield bounce off walls. Too calculate if the material can take the force of a vibranium shield. To know the angles. This takes a fast brain. FALCON CAP does the same with the shield and HAS NO SUPER SOLDIER SERUM!! She-Hulk: Just cuz you are as powerful as the Hulk. Doesn't mean you know how to fight. Hulk just uses brute force. Jen is doing all these judo, fighting styles. THAT SHE NEVER LEARNED! Female Hawkeye: This is the worse. Clint is like not only a shield agent, but he's the top 5%, like a pro ball player. He's a super star in what he does. You mean to tell me. Someone with college level archery, no training fighting skills or acrobatic skills, no killer instincts, no years of grueling assassination training can compete with a man that took on cartels, yakuzu and other gang types. She can match that? GTFO of here man!

@danielmejorado6098

Жыл бұрын

I agree with several of the points you highlighted. But wasn't there a montages of Kate Bishop doing all kinds of training? Gymnastics, fencing, archery, some form of martial arts( might have been jujitsu)? Maybe I'm remembering it wrong, but didn't they show a james bond style silhouette of her winning medals in various athletic competitions?

@darkhighwayman1757

Жыл бұрын

@@danielmejorado6098 maybe but that would still be a college sophore playing basketball going up against Jordan or Kobe in their primes.

@MassielRoss

Жыл бұрын

Maybe I'm remembering wrong but isn't kate a black belt in martial arts and a archery champion? I swear they said that in the show

@dontgiveinfo

Жыл бұрын

@@danielmejorado6098 yes, but those they didn't train her to be an assassin, she was never taught to be trained to kill, being in athletic competitions is top 10% of humanity. But the pros are top 1%. Then even in that there is a handful of off the wall pros like a Mariano Rivera or a Jordan. Clint and Natasha have that next level training. Kat being spunky is not that

@dontgiveinfo

Жыл бұрын

@@MassielRoss dude. LEt's be real. Being in high school black belt, even in if you are world champion martial artist. it don't mean ish. Do you know what that means? these ppl fight under rules that don't work to fight grown mercenary men. Archery champion? she's not Hawkeye level. Being in the archery olympics doesn't mean crap

Hawkeye had some good quips, just got overshadowed by Iron Man and Captain America. Age of Ultron and Civil War was a pretty good showing of it. Plus, there’s only so much an archer can do, unless they give him obscenely powerful arrows to use.

I liked Falcon well enough . . . when he was Falcon. F&WS was a missed opportunity to really have him forge his full identity, to develop him as a character the same others had been before and bring him out of Roger's shadow. Too bad that's not what they did.

@gregowen2022

Жыл бұрын

I agree and it was a terrible disservice to Falcon. He could have been the new leader of the Avengers or something. But they decided to make him merely his skin color. Cool.

Meanwhile Miles Morales is just sitting there as the shining example of how to "race swap," a character. They legit created a brand new character that they went out of their way to highlight how different his story was going to be right off the jump when he's bitten by the spider instead of reacting in pain he instead just swats it like a fly.

@MegaMilenche

Жыл бұрын

A real gangsta, huh?

@RIMESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

Жыл бұрын

These replacements are done out of malice for white people, don't fucking admire it.

@BiggieTrismegistus

9 ай бұрын

That was a strange situation though. For awhile Marvel had two publishing lines (regularl) Marvel and Ultimate Marvel. The Ultimate Marvel universe featured many of the same characters as (regular) Marvel but they were all treated as newly introduced so the writers could take them in different directions. Eventually Peter Parker died in the Ultimate Marvel universe which allowed Miles Morales to assume the name in that universe. In _Secret Wars_ Marvel merged the (normal) Marvel and Ultimate Marvel universes and that's how Miles Morales and Peter Parker came to both be Spider-Man. Another thing is that there were a lot of Miles Morales stories published which gave them time to flesh out the character and make him memorable. As they did with all the other legacy characters they just imported him directly into the movies. Almost all the new MCU characters haven't been used enough to allow the creators to really nail them down. We know how to write a good Steve Rogers or Miles Morales. What does a good Ironheart look like? We don't know because we've never really seen one.

@RIMESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

9 ай бұрын

@@BiggieTrismegistus who cares? They jumped at the chance for black spiderman, they'd make every fucking superhero non white if they could, it would just be too obvious to do it all at once. You'll wake up one day with every hero being non white and every villain being white and the whole world acting as if that's how it is in reality.

@no.1spidey-fan182

9 ай бұрын

Um...it took them 7 years to do that spiderverse retcon. Miles was version much just Peter but with all the superificial differences turned on his head😂. Even to this day he still soesnt have his own depth as a character and its just sad😭

Im glad Victoria's gone

@theimaginist3310

Жыл бұрын

Her whole “mantle” idea is absolute proof that she had no business at Marvel in a position of authority.

@TheGreeneyed23

Жыл бұрын

Are you ? She was only a little part of a big problem

@myfathersson3751

Жыл бұрын

I still I am 😄

@TheGreeneyed23

Жыл бұрын

Where is Zemo at ?

@moresnacksplease526

Жыл бұрын

They're going to be cleaning out her minions for the next 1-2 decades though. She probably had several diversity hires in HR, so it's going to be a long and messy process.

I think the mantel metaphor was used to explain why they could, and should, replace well known and likeable heroes with alternates which tick various inclusion and diversity boxes. I think the actual intent is to mock the superhero genre entirely. More specifically, it's to mock the ideals those heroes represent. It's a mixture of old school mockery of geek interest together with mocking the idea there can be a good conventional heterosexual man with pure virtues. This is why the stories do not just switch people out but they make sure to degrade the depiction of men, casting doubt on their intentions and (in their mind at least) make the women more attractive. With Captain Marvel, she is the functional equivalent to Superman. However, what isn't shown is how she ensures her powers are used for good only and not in the heat of anger or out of spite. If you had to trust someone with superpowers would you pick Captain Marvel or would you pick original Superman (not the deconstructed version)? With She Hulk she'd rather pursue an ordinary job as an attorney than actually save humanity from immense threats. How selfish is that? Bruce accepted his fate and took on the responsibility that entailed, even when he was battling his own personality. He did not seek to benefit from his power but fundamentally wanted to use it to help others. His constant fear was to unintentionally harm the innocent. Might is not right but might can be used to protect the right. She hulk seemed to be a private comedy that the writers wanted to point squarely at geeky men and their silly fascinations. They set out the mock the very idea that people can be interested in such stories. Antman, upon which the entire universe depended to undo the damage Thanos wrought, still had to put up with a child who, although apparently super intelligent, didn't respect her father in any meaningful way, and came damn close to ending reality by doing so. There is a persistent theme of female characters simply creating amazing technology with no effort whatsoever. Trivialising the pursuit of technical and scientific progress. Apparently you need only some exotic super-material for your whole culture to be more advanced that the rest of the planet and it's pitiful attempts at modelling reality to pursue progress. All those dumb men who didn't know they could create wonders. If only they let the woman get their hands on equipment we'd have a utopia by now. It's not just that the characters are unlikable. It's that they all have a mission to undermine the ideas many men aspire to. The tragedy being, if they are successful in that process, they'll produce a generation of men who think their baser needs are the only things they can achieve, and men will fulfil that expectation.

@lancethefilmguy9392

Жыл бұрын

It makes you wonder if any of these ladies had "Daddy Issues" growing up as a child. Almost like they are taking revenge on all men for what happened to them back in the day.

@TheSuperappelflap

Жыл бұрын

We already have a generation of men who think their base needs are all that matters, just go to a club or take a look on social media, or talk to some people on the street. You'd be hard pressed to find anyone that has read a book in their life.

Clint is US. His power is being regular people. We fight for what we love and care about, not because we have a responsibility too cause we have powers. How do you not like Clint? You are Clint. Clint is your path to immersion, its how you can be part of the story, "You guys go do you, I'm with him."

You never go full tokenism. I don't think Disney/Marvel/LucasFilm/Hollywood/Corporations got the memo.

The 'New Coke' of the MCU.

Marvel's "mantle" obsession aside, the actors for Kate Bishop, America Chavez and Kamala Khan are still fairly likable, because most of them still act as the inexperienced rookies who look up to a mentor figure. Hailee's rapport with Renner is basically the same like in her movie Edge of Seventeen. I'll go with the minority who didn't like Yelena's quippy MCU version instead of the Bond-style Russian agent. I honestly dread that these actors would eventually be held hostage by Disney to spout their progressive soapbox like how they did with Letitia Wright, or someone who are insufferable in social media like Brie or Simu.

@gregowen2022

Жыл бұрын

I'll grant that they are likable, but I think they went too heavy on the inexperienced kid thing. It worked with Parker, because he was the only inexperienced idiot in the room. The adults were still handling things. I don't know if audiences are going to respond wel to a team made of sarcastic kids.

Iron Heart's backstory should have had her adopted by Tony Stark on one of his PR crusades and sent to a boarding school for most of her life... Just like Howard Stark did to him.... Before End Game and after losing so many people Tony makes a hologram of himself to give to Riri Williams because that's what tech nerds do. He wanted to make up for his years of neglecting her. She wasn't thrilled but after seeing what he did to samve the world, Riri Williams decides to carry on Tony's work with a little help from Rescue (Pepper Potts). That would have worked and been accepted and not the garbage we got. Also, the Power Ranger special effects have got to go.

Anyone else remember why Steve Rodgers was picked in the first place? He jumped on what he thought was a live grenade with no hesitation.

Guardian 3 was a very good example in how to replace beloved characters

This mantle thing reminds me how some years ago, 2017 , when Marvel vs Capcom Infinite failed to add fan favorites due Disney, the Capcom sopkesman, Combofiend replied with something along the lines of the mantle ideology. "If you were to actually think about it, these characters are just functions. They're just doing things," ... "Magneto, case and point, is a favorite because he has eight-way dash and he's really fast, right? Well guess what, Nova can do the same thing, Captain Marvel can do the same thing. Ultron can do the same thing."... "It's just the function that people are associating with the character, and there's no shortage of that. We made sure that all proper playstyles can be represented with our current roster." Which defeats the whole point of a crossover game.

You should’ve talked about how Sam Wilson was a great character as well as Steve Roger’s. They didn’t assassinate captain America, they also assassinated Falcon.

Thank goodness a few characters are impossible to replace, mantle-wise. Groot and Rocket, for one, can't be replaced by someone else who just happens to have similar abilities.

As I remember, Marvel was never the company for 'exhanging the mantle' until around 2013 or whenever with Fem-Thor and Miles. Dc was the one that would replace its Flashes and Green Lanturns all the time, and it was tied to the ideology of their characters. Dc characters were 'gods' to be looked up to and for people to aspire to be, it made sense that when a Flash died, someone would rise to take their place. Marvel was about the individual. It was about the person behind the costume, and how they would balance responsibilities beyond the norm, but when an x-man died, they didnt used to get replaced outside of a few exceptions (Thunderbird with his brother). Of course, its a blend of ideology and wanting royalties. You can't catch an audience because the company is in the toilet and even if you did wrote someone good, noone would read it? Just change the established character so you can make those royalties and hope that you get a movie deal. It's all been incredibly sad watching these characters I've grown up with in the comics just be absolutely ruined

@curious5887

Жыл бұрын

Miles Morales is still a solid characters though, well, maybe the movie version😊

@lancethefilmguy9392

Жыл бұрын

2015

@Ardante11

Жыл бұрын

@@curious5887 Miles’s biggest flaws: - We’ve yet to see a original villain. He’s dependent all on Spider-Man’s villains. - He’s biracial, yet they’re heavy on his black-ness and not his other side. Sure they’ll throw something in here and there but for the most part he’s a straight up black kid and yes I’m black. - Too many cooks in the kitchen. Disney’s main goal is to try to take one “mantle” and create a hero based on that mantle for every demographic there is but this also waters down the uniqueness and rarity of the superhero power.

@curious5887

Жыл бұрын

@@Ardante11 yeah, I say movie versions only, the comic one is terrible

@spencerbibby5797

Жыл бұрын

Marvel has been doing mantle exchanges for a lot longer than that. Typically the original would take back their mantle after a couple years due to fans getting bored with the new character but there is a long history of it. Off the top of my head, Rhodey was Iron Man for a couple years in the 80s, John Walker became Captain America in the 80s, Eric Masterson replaced Thor in the late 80s, we had numerous people taking on the Ant-man/Giant-man/Goliath/Yellowjacket mantles over the years, and if you want to really go back a bit the Fantastic Four's Human Torch was picking up the mantle from the old WW2 era character.

4:08 And the biggest half is John Walker just being a better character because his story is actually a story and not a message John Walker took on the mantle of Captain America, but come with it are grievances of the past from Steve’s two old comrades and friends. How will Walker prove to the world and Captain America’s most trusted allies that he has what it takes? Yeah no, Walker was practically the main character of that show. He tried to get along with Bucky and Sam, tried to solve the issue of the flag smashers as his duties required him. Lost his friend in a tragedy because Bucky and Sam wouldn’t stop getting in his way, he then learns the hard way that all his patriotisim is thrown under the bus if public opinion turns against him, even so; he will do what he had originally set out to do over his revenge, that is to save people. You can just tell he was written for a story and not some woke agenda. The hidden gem everyone saw past because he got thrown a bucket of black paint, what a great character.

Hawkeye is my favorite Avenger, specifically **because** there's nothing special about him. He's just a dude who's really, REALLY good at what he does. I like Kate Bishop for similar reasons, though her screentime and writing definitely could have used a bit more polish. Other than that, you hit the nail on the head. Well said.

I do not like putting Sam Wilson in the same box. Sam is a great character that's been here since the Winter Soldier. I think they kinda messed it up with the show (I wanted it to be awesome SO BAD) but I still have interest in his Captain America movie.

@gregowen2022

Жыл бұрын

I know a lot of people have mixed feelings because they like The Falcon. That's what I think makes the show such a betrayal. Rather than bringing his character to the forefront and developing him more, they tried to cram him into a Steve-shaped box and paint the whole thing with a shallow political message. I think the best move would have been to let the shield stay on the wall as a remnder of heroism or whatever and move forward with The Falcon taking a more prominent role as his own person

@mallorycarpinski1160

Жыл бұрын

@@gregowen2022 Do you think Bucky should have gotten the shield?

@gregowen2022

Жыл бұрын

@@mallorycarpinski1160 no, I don't think that would have worked. I know people think that since they were friends from the beginning he should have, but a notorious former russian killing machine wouldn't be a good look for captain America. They are working on Bucky's redemption arc, but handing him the shield isn't it. In the cinematic universe, I think Cap should just stay dead, but if they really felt they absolutely had to have a new one, I think it should have been a new character like John Walker. Winter Soldier was already Winter Soldier. Falcon was already Falcon. No one needs to be 'upgraded' to captain america

I don't see how they can really fix the problem. Phase 4 laid out a crappy foundation that will be used going forward for the next 2-3 phases. Introduced crappy characters that I don't care about. And a main villain of the saga that isn't all that menacing. It's like the opposite of the first 3 phases.

Bucky should've gotten the Shield to continue his redemption arc. That would've more interesting, and would tackle some great questions about 2nd chances. Much better than him just moping around and never moving on.

@TheShockVox

Жыл бұрын

Nuh-ope. Bucky getting the shield would’ve been thematically inappropriate when he doesn’t want to fight in the first place, for good or bad. Dude is horribly depressed and has a lot of baggage to work through. Majority of stuff with Bucky is Steve trying to help and support him through being used for decades and being pursued by governments who want him incarcerated at best for actions beyond his control. Meanwhile, Sam supports Steve more than anyone in the MCU. Who’s better fit to be Captain America? The one who needed Cap’s help the most, or the one that Cap needed help from the most? A redemption arc can happen, but him being Captain America ain’t it. There’s too much red. Like in the comics, the very reason Bucky stopped being cap was because of all that red.

@DavidMartinez-ce3lp

Жыл бұрын

@@TheShockVox Thematically inappropriate? Cap was constantly on about how he's with Bucky to the end of the line throughout phases 2 and 3, then he just abandons him at the very end. So I guess all that was BS. Giving him the Shield would've allowed for Cap to be with him symbolically. Bucky needs to be allowed the chance to move on. He can't just keep being the Winter Soldier when that's the name of a brainwashed Assassin. Even putting him on trial for his past crimes, even though he was literally brainwashed, and removing the shield is much more interesting than the story of Blacktain America. Whose story is that he's black. No longer his own hero with his own name. He's black Captain America. So boring and bland.

@oliviastratton2169

Жыл бұрын

I don't know. Bucky becoming Captain America made sense in the comics because he started out as Cap's protégé. So stepping into the role felt like part of his journey to reclaim his identity. But in the MCU Bucky was Steve's peer. An older brother figure even. He makes a point of saying he cares about Steve as a person not Captain America the symbol. Sam is the one who teamed up with Steve because "Captain America needs my help". The title meant something to him. Unfortunately, TFATWS forgot all about these scenes and made Bucky the one invested in the shield. But at the time Endgame came out, I think Sam did make more sense as a successor based on what was written up to that point.

@DavidMartinez-ce3lp

Жыл бұрын

@@oliviastratton2169Cap constantly said "I'm with you to the end of the line." He went to war with his other friends to be there for Bucky. If Bucky got the Shield it would be Cap being with Bucky symbolically, instead of abandoning him altogether. Bucky is stuck feeling sorry about the things he did as Winter Soldier. Winter Soldier is the name of a brainwashed Assassin. Bucky needed to be able to move on from that identity, and onto a new one. Getting a second chance. Sam already had his own superhero name, Falcon. He never struggled with his identity. Never needed to change alter ego. Sam knows who he is. He could've still been by Bucky's side and encourage him. Reassure him that Steve didn't make a mistake in giving Bucky the Shield.

1961-1969 Avengers is all you need.

@kneelbeforezod2160

Жыл бұрын

💯

@Tyler_W

Жыл бұрын

That's indeed the classic era, but there have been great runs since then. There were definitely some lengthy doldrums for a while there, but there has almost always been a really good run on the book at least once every decade. Personally, I think the last great Avengers run was Hickman's Avengers/New Avengers which culminated in his Secret Wars. There have been a handful of worthwhile books since then, but as a universe, the Marvel Universe got a satisfying conclusion wkth the end of Secret Wars, because Marvel Comics have largely been going downhill ever since as far as I'm concerned, and now Marvel Studios is following that exact same trajecotry for almost the exact same creatively bankrupt reasons.

About that bar being set so low with Suicide Squad, I've watched James Gunn's THE Suicide Squad and thought it was actually pretty good. Most of my problems with it can be chalked up to the R-rating (even though I understand why it's like that). My main point is that if the Thunderbolts is trying to be like the suicide squad of Marvel, the bar's been raised since that first movie. Given how none of the characters who are on the team in the show were actually Thunderbolts in the comics, I'm not holding my breath.

@Tyler_W

Жыл бұрын

Winter Soldier has led a team of Thunderbolts in the 2010s. He's led two different teams if I'm not mistaken, but my favorite one was when he was on a team with Punisher, Red Hulk, Agent Venom (Flash Thompson in a black ops military themed Venom suit), Elektra, and Ghost Rider. I don't think Yalena was technically a member of the Thunderbolts, but she has been in Thunderbolts stories, so she isn't completely put of place.

@dragonsword8129

Жыл бұрын

@@Tyler_W Okay. I heard that Red Hulk could be in the show, so that’s something. Isn’t Yelena a villain in the comics?

@gregowen2022

Жыл бұрын

I haven't gotten around to the new The Suicide Squad though I heard good stuff. I was about to say that Thunderbolts could be good because audiences love a rag tag group of misfits and anti-heroes. Guardians of the Galaxy shows it. But then I realized gotg and 2021 suicide squad were Gunn movies and he's gone now. Marvel got rid of real directors and it absolutely shows

To be fair, I thought that U.S. Agent was the best new character to come out of the Multiverse Saga, so I'm excited to see him again.

The point of Hawkeye to me at least...was that he was probably the most vulnerable Avenger but he still risked his life into situations that even the more powerful Avengers would of struggled with so he was still just as Heroic...idk thats my take.

10:32 My favorite marvel superhero is Clint Barton...🥲 But honestly, I think all of the replacements suck, I especially can’t stand kate or yelena. Those two are probably my least favorite fictional characters. They're even worse than daisy johnson in my opinion. Besides, kate, ms marvel, and chavez are literally the same character.

@macmcleod1188

Жыл бұрын

I could have liked yelana. But she was inserted into black widow's movie as an obvious replacement. And yelana started on third base with a head start to home late. She should have lost handily fighting black Widow. She had no room for growth and I dislike the character. I won't go to watch her.

@gregowen2022

Жыл бұрын

They are going in hard for the teenage hero thing and I don't see it working. Having one kid in Peter Parker was fun, but we still want a team full of adults who know what they're doing

@bowtie2232

Жыл бұрын

@@gregowen2022 Agreed. I can’t really see how the new "avengers" would even work either. They don't really work as characters, let alone as a team. The new team has: - Sam, whose whole personality now is based on his skin color (poor Sam). - jen, who seems to hate men, or something. - kate, chavez & kamala, who are literally the same character. - yelena, who's a hypocrite, and it seems like she doesn’t even want to be an avenger. - cassie, who acts like the flag smashers from falcon and the winter soldier. - and riri & shuri, but I really don't know what those two are like. They too seem to be pretty similar though.

It's Bud Light, the superhero comic. Same superpower (beer), just in new, unattractive or offensive packaging ( She-Hulk and all those other girls I never to bothered to learn their names...).

What is a book, tale, movie, show, play, etc.....a STORY with CHARACTERS. How can thy completely miss this over and over and over when everyone in the WORLD is screaming it at them all day everyday?!

Actually Skippy Hawkeye was so popular they launched a second Avengers book in the 80's called West Coast Avengers simply to give Hawkeye his own book, it did great until they transferred fan favorite Hawkeye back to the east coast team causing the west coast book to die.

She hulk was part of my first thoughts because it so easily the most memorable recent thing for me; for a good while I've been wondering if there is a writers equivalent of "main character syndrome". It heavily feels as if there is this weird expectation that viewers will love a character just because they're the main character, and then just portray a character which is at best has 0 draw, at worse is downright offensive to endure. She-hulk is pretty much my most favorite example of this, in part due to the wider context of the first episode or so; We're generally introduced to jen, who has some mock speech which is backed up by clap-girl who ends up throwing the overly sexist man out of the room; followed by more clap, to the backstory; in which she gets "infected", goes hulk rage, almost ends up killing a few dudes for their sexist commentary, followed by a "hey, look, I'm the hulk, but better!", and a general slap towards hulk fans who know the history of the hulk. Nowhere in there has anything been established as to why we should care about this character, nor have we grasped that this is a character who is likable (if anything, at every possible chance, she's done the exact opposite). The 4th wall breaks, which are supposed to be one of her magical skills which on several occasions felt so world shattering as it just felt like the writers were trying to use it as a means to air their complaints about the very thing that they're writing. Like, dennis is the weird standout character of the show; in part because I refuse to believe that such a man could walk around without having a perma blackeye, but, in the writers casting all of their aspersions on this singular character for the most part, you just end up with a character who is ironically funny in a "I can't believe this moron just said that" breaking kind of way. The character is just so unrealistic in a sense that it's actually comical how much hate they put onto this man who I refuse to believe could exist in the real world, unless this is the type of man Hollywood allows in its midst....

I love Clint! And I don’t read the comics He’s just a morally grey family Man trying to do more good than bad despite his darker side trying to survive next to dozens of super powered goody two shoes who don’t always have the fortitude to exist in a necessary grey!

Steve Rogers was the Hero. Caption America was just a name. He’s powers came to him because him being a good man made the super soldier serum react to him the way it did.

Steve was a friggin’ SUPER SOLDIER. Sam was a para rescue using kit that Starktech made. All the guys in his unit had the same rig, didn’t they? There’s nothing special about him really, as far as I can tell

I agree with your Thunderbolts segment,totally my most anticipated MCU project right now,but I must add John Walker is the character I'm most excited to see. Out of everyone in TFATWS he had the most character development and depth and I personally can't wait to see him again,he is the most over hated character in the MCU. Also I actually kind of liked Hawkeye,because it actually had some heart compared to the other Disney+ shows. Apart from that,agree with everything you said,we need to demand better from MCU. Wich is why I cancelled my Disney+ subscription(and so did 4 million other people) and I'm not subscribing again until they start making quality projects again ❤

@laverdadescatolica5

Жыл бұрын

Fantastic Four!

@gregowen2022

Жыл бұрын

John definitely has good room for a redemption arc. It's unfortunate that they made everyone hate him just to prop up New Cap. Thunderbolts should be an easy win, I hope they don't fumble it

@ruxy2583

Жыл бұрын

@@gregowen2022 damnn I'm so happy you responded to my comment. Love your channel🥰 and yes, thunderbolts should be a very easy win for them since team-up movies are always better liked than solo movies. But we'll see.

The thing that annoys me is whenever you point this out people just call you racist or sexist or something like that and there's no discussion

@lancethefilmguy9392

Жыл бұрын

Not surprised. These Left Wing Conspiracy Theorists always try to deflect any true criticisms of the MCU

@TheSuperappelflap

Жыл бұрын

Its like trying to debate a creationist. Waste of time. You might as well explain gravity to a pigeon.

Clint is (was) my favorite MCU Avenger. He is the ordinary man in extraordinary circumstances. (I think this is even brought up in the Hawkeye show.) Renner is also the best actor of the original ensemble. I'd say Renner, Johannsen, then Ruffalo for talent top 3. RDJ was the best *cast*, but not the strongest actor.

An issue with Anthony Mackie is that even though he is a good actor, as Cap men don't want to be him and women don't want to schpoink him. That may sound crass but those can be important qualities for a male action lead actor. Female replacements for legacy characters have the reverse problem. Then you've got ScarJo who's final Black Widow appearance was stripped of literally all visual sexual appeal and her replacement was just a neutral. With no vicarious relationship with the audience or would-be movie goers, where's the WIFM to entice butts in seats?

All new all different was a failure in the comics... What was the possibility it would work on screen!?

@gregowen2022

Жыл бұрын

It's stunning that a company with a built-in comic test audience could be failing this hard

"Stands and applauds" - Thank you for putting time, energy, and words into what I have been thinking, but could not express for so long. I'll be watching your channel until the end of time (Or you stop publishing). Thanks.

@gregowen2022

Жыл бұрын

I appreciate the kind words, thank you! Hopefully I'll be making videos for some time to come

She Hulk wasn't interesting because Jen Walters had Hulk powers. She-Hulk was interesting because Jen Walters didn't need to get angry to transform, usually chose to stay like that, and just mostly kept doing what she'd already been doing (She'd help out with the odd villain of the week or world ending threat) and not giving a crap what anyone thought of her being an 8 foot tall green amazon. Also 4th wall breaks... can't forget the cheeky 4th wall breaks.

Clint is my favorite...