If you're racing in chase cam, you're not a sim racer. You're just a gamer.

@Paul_Ehlers

7 ай бұрын

That is the point.... Sim racing is ultimately still a game.. yes.. and a game allows you to play the way you want to... as in car... if you speak to the likes of Jardier and Tidge etc they will tell you that can probably beat most people with in car views..

@PhilipJaehnert

4 ай бұрын

Exactly. Also, how some people invest so much in buying, assembling, and optimizing their simrace equipment, only to use the chase cam. It's so pointless. But okay.

@Smokabis

4 ай бұрын

@@Paul_Ehlers Of course, you’re playing a game in both scenarios, just one view is simulating the same view you get driving a real car vs sitting in a chair, in the air behind your car. One being realistic to a degree and the other, the exact opposite. You most likely will always be faster while being able to see 360 degrees around the vehicle, but just less immersed.

@Smokabis

4 ай бұрын

@@PhilipJaehnert Yep, agreed. I just couldn’t do it. I haven’t spent big dollars on a sim rig, wheel and pedals etc to race in chase cam, the whole point of a rig and wheels is immersion.

After driving real race cars, the hood cam seems to be the most "accurate" for me.

All I know is that I can feel the car better in cockpit cam. Chase cam is like radio controlled cars.

Regarding your "Two camps of players". I've been online gaming since the 90s and have found that the "win at all cost" types can absolutely suck the joy out of a gaming experience! For them, rules and trying to have a realistic experience don't matter.

@DanDiMaggio

7 ай бұрын

I completely agree!

@Gaso_Meter

7 ай бұрын

"win at all cost" - guys are in both camps. i've been racing iracing for years and have noticed that most people get calmer with experience. especially when it comes to oval racing.

@JacobN56

7 ай бұрын

Agreed

I'm 100% in the immersion camp. I want my racing to feel as realistic as possible.

Anything that has chase cam in official online racing cannot be called a sim.

@ShawnHinck

7 ай бұрын

There’s a lot of GT7 players that are going to not be happy with this….

@SvalbardSleeperDistrict

7 ай бұрын

@@ShawnHinck Players of the arcade game where cars phase through each other and there's barely a damage model? Kinda too much for anyone to have the ambition to call it a sim before we even get to chase cam.

@ShawnHinck

7 ай бұрын

@@SvalbardSleeperDistrict I definitely don’t disagree, GT7 players think one or two kind of realistic aspects makes it a sim versus attempting to be as realistic as possible.

Bonnet cam for me, For me, in terms of immersion, having two wheels and two dashboards in view breaks it for me.

@TheRivalryDrifting

7 ай бұрын

if you cant get your monitor close eoungh to set the right fov for fpv than hood cam is honestly not only better but more realistic to ware your monitor is.

@mac16a

5 ай бұрын

@@TheRivalryDrifting but what if the car you drive has lcd with various info on it? I used to play on monitor with wheel and hands visible. A month ago I switched to vr and I miss viewing my logitech wheel with leds telling me when to shift. Sometimes racetrack is so loud I can't tell when I'm over-revving.

@TheRivalryDrifting

5 ай бұрын

@@mac16a first off adjust you audio settings. Almost every sim let's you adjust motor and track noise. As for in car displays you can always use the games Dash's/apps or you can use simhib over lays or sim hub Dash's on an old phone or tablet.

Didn't know this was a thing. Cant see what if any chase cam would be. Only advantage is seeing whose around you (which is a positive for all) and if there's a pile up you can navigate it better, Maybe? My feeling is you paid for it you play how you want. If you use a wheel in chase then i"m truly impressed. I would think that controller would feel better in that scenario

Car guys want to drive the car. Cockpit dash cam.

Chase Cam is for people who have never driven are car in real life.

@TheAtvman88

7 ай бұрын

YOUR RIGHT!!!!!!!!! I live in the crappy state of WEST VIRGINIA that does NOTHING to help out handicapped people like me. I would KILL to drive in real life.

@cj386.

7 ай бұрын

Ok i guess I have never "driven are car" cause you said so. Guess ill have to walk everywhere now. Tough shit

U can put a setting that forces cockpit cam,and the others that don't like it won't race that event

just make lobbys where you cant change the view

@PhilipJaehnert

4 ай бұрын

Exactly! Like a checkbox filter named "cockpit only". I don't get it why this isn't still there in 2024.

@xabussas1362

4 ай бұрын

and i dont play the game or ever even tryed to its just so simple and obvious@@PhilipJaehnert

That thumbnail... 🤣🤣🤣 If I knew how others are viewing the car, and what equipment they were using, I could at least adjust my play style accordingly. In Forza Motorsport, I assume that the majority of the players are on controller and using chase cam so, I tend not to stay alongside anyone even if this is to my determent. In RaceRoom, I assume that the majority of players are at least running a single screen with a wheel and are using cockpit view. There I feel a lot more comfortable running wheel to wheel with others. The advantage from seeing the car is nice. But, when the first-person gang has a good radar to rely on, then I feel that the chase cam advantage is somewhat mitigated, because; my confidence in knowing where cars are around me increases ten-fold. And that comfort allows me to put more into racing/driving than being overly cautious. It's probably why a radar is one of the most requested features for FM? As for if I think anything is wrong with chase cam? I think it's fine. Play how you want. I'm using triples on a simcade, so if anyone is to be clowned for how they play a game, I should be first in line. 😉

For me, I don't think my pace would be any different cockpit to chase cam. I think I can be as consistent and on the pace with either up to whatever my talent limit is (and my talent limit is not that high). I think the big advantage comes in being able to navigate traffic and side by side racing. That being said, I've found sims with good radar systems such as AMS2 and ACC give me enough awareness that I can manage the traffic well enough. So for me, I actually don't believe chase cam would give me any advantage.

Using anything other than the cockpit camera is technically not Sim Racing, unless you're simulating the experience of an onboard camera (or fast drone). I guess it's more accessible for people to use the chase cam etc and that encourages more participation so no harm done. Additionally on some platforms you can't adjust the cockpit view much (e.g. GT7 on PlayStation), so using the bumper camera might be better. It would be good to have some online races that limit to cockpit view (it would need to allow the user to adjust the FOV to fit their set up) and have the rest open to personal choice.

@Gaso_Meter

7 ай бұрын

iRacing? cockpit view only!

@test868

7 ай бұрын

@@Gaso_Meter that's true. I guess each sim has it's pros and cons. 🙂

@Gaso_Meter

7 ай бұрын

@@test868 Of course! Starting with the fact that sim racing is a very time-consuming hobby that not everyone can afford or even has the desire to get involved in. Of course, such an arcade racer is great, whether with or without cockpit view. But I have the time and want to be as close to reality as possible in a simulation. However, I don't have a super fancy rig either. ;) At the end of the day, it's supposed to be fun and everyone defines it in their own way.

@test868

7 ай бұрын

@@Gaso_Meter 100% agree. I didn't realise how time consuming until I took the plunge.

I used to only use 3rd person view, because thats what I was used to when growing up with the classic racing titles. It took time for me to get used to 1st person. And as with any multiplayer game, the experience is much better with other like minded players. Find a group that plays the same way you do.

I've been sim racing since 1994; have always used cockpit view. The only time I use other views is for watching / analyzing replays. Personally, I don't care what view(s) others use to drive. As far as I can determine no one in the two leagues I race in uses chase cam.

I agree with the sentiment but sim racing is so niche I'm not sure we can afford to split the player base in most sims

I agree... Would probably have to force the VIEW setting at the start... I like the idea... let's do it!

I associate the chase cam with arcade gaming, whereas I see the cockpit view as more of a simulation. (I guess this idea was established by NfS, which I played a lot in the early 2000s) that may of course be nonsense today. apart from that, I've got so used to the cockpit view over decades that the chase cam would probably be more of a disadvantage for me. btw: chase cam with a wheel? this sounds so wrong!

@DanDiMaggio

7 ай бұрын

I hate to even admit it but I know a lot of people that use chase cam with a wheel. I gave up trying to convince them to stop years ago lol.

@Leron_T

7 ай бұрын

agreed, on the occasions i do run a chase cam, prefer using a gamepad

@PhilipJaehnert

4 ай бұрын

And if they then justify chase cam + wheel as being simulated, it embodies a form of cognitive dissonance.

I like the idea of the cockpit view, but I never feel in control of the car when using it. So hard to know when it starts to slide. Maybe I need to quit working and parenting so I can put more hours in until I've mastered it. Or maybe drop a few mortgage payments on a more expensive rig. But until then I guess it'll be chase cam!

To be honest i only use bonnet cam now as it gives a much better sense of speed

I feel like 99% of the sim racers that I compete vs on IRacing are cockpit view drivers. On consule games like Grand Tourismo it's probably 50/50% or it was back when i lasted owned a PS2 15+ years ago. I dont care what view you use cause it doesnt help your laptime. And it's debatable if it chase view is way better for wheel to wheel racing.

I personally am slower in chase/ halo cam and in cockpit cam I can look at the apex. I’m not sure if I do it to feel more like I’m in the car but if I was faster in chase can I would probably drive in halo cam or chase cam. I say if someone is more comfortable I say do what makes you more comfortable

Cockpit view should be the only thing allowed in competitive sim racing, period.

@TheRivalryDrifting

7 ай бұрын

competitive sim racing requires you you to exploit the sim till its an arcade game so someone being in a chase cam or on top of the halo isnt gonna be why someone else is at a big disadvantage.

I mean bonnet cam for me all day the screen is my window my wheel lcd display etc are my cockpit no sense in having two

@DanDiMaggio

7 ай бұрын

You know I've tried to use this one many times but for some reason the car rotation feels really strange to me. Something always feels off but I know a lot of people do use it for the same reason you state here.

@Leron_T

7 ай бұрын

same for me

I would say first person is the least realistic and gives the best lap times, Not much of an advantage to 3rd person except a little spatial awareness I dont agree with classifying purist vs win at all cost, third camp is just enjoys cars/racing

I only use the chase cam when I have to shoot #GTAV 😆

Some sims (I believe) you can restrict people to use internal cameras in the lobbies, so the astral projection racers would have to find a lobby that allow the astral projection cam. There is also the point that beginners coming from arcade games find it easier to make the transition of genres if they use outside view, since they aren't used to understanding the FFB as "the car behavior" yet, so they find it easier to save slides if they see the car sliding instead of feeling the car slide, 3rd person is very advantageous not only for extra awareness

I’m happy with how I enjoy the game…using cockpit cam, I think simply because I use to be a regular track day attendee. My happiness is all that matters, I’m in it for my love of motorsports. I don’t race to win all the time, but to just really have a good time racing clean.

@DanDiMaggio

7 ай бұрын

that's the absolute best way to go about it in my opinion!

I prefer onboard/roof camera. I drive with a single monitor and it works best for me. If I had a VR set I'd go with cockpit cam every time.

I think car radar should be in all sims since irl its easy to glance at opposite side mirror. Plus irl you have a spatial awareness that cockpit view doesnt seem to give you in a sim. Thank you for another video Dan, and are you done with forza yet? I have kinda gotten over it after playing for about a month. Peace✌️

@DanDiMaggio

7 ай бұрын

I'm not done with it yet but I haven't been playing it as much. Sadly it got a little stale. But I need to give it another go now that the 3rd official update is out!

Can you use different views in imaging or cockpit only?

@DanDiMaggio

7 ай бұрын

I'm not sure I follow what you're referring to with "imaging?

@edosborne5823

7 ай бұрын

@DanDiMaggio sorry miss typed. Can you use different views in imaging, or us it cockpit only?

Live For Speed has some lobbies that are restricted to cockpit view. Is that the only game with this feature?

@DanDiMaggio

7 ай бұрын

I belief iRacing does too in online race sessions but I can't remember for sure.

imho - chase cam isn't solely a 'win at all cost' model - it's the only way I can navigate without an ultrawide/triple monitor setup and truly know what's going on around me. I'd rather be able to see what's aside me than run another competitor off the track. Is what it is man, and you haven't really made a single argument for WHY the chase cam is a competitive advantage. Only that those who chose it use it to 'win at all costs', which is an inherently weak argument to make.

@DanDiMaggio

7 ай бұрын

I totally get your side of the argument too thanks for the comment. The one thing I would ask is, have you ever done any real world track work? Track days, races etc.? I only bring that up because I've spent most of my adult life doing it and started way before I was sim racing. In fact I got into sim racing because the real world stuff so damn expensive. The one thing that is often not taken into consideration is how limited your actual pov is when wearing a helmet. And just to clarify, I'm not making an argument for FOV here, i'm just talking about what your actual POV is (what you can physically see in a helmet). On top of that, most FIA approved racing seats have c shaped head/neck protection that obstructs your view to the sides with or without a helmet anyways. So in the most realistic racing scenario possible you do not have much if any indication of how close anyone is around you outside what you can see in your mirrors which is limited. Sound is also useful to get a general idea too but it's not going to pinpoint where they are. That is the whole reason behind radios and team spotters being used way before sim racing was a thing. I've run singles, triples, ultrawides, and VR and compared to the real thing, VR or a standard ultrawide is the most realistic POV. Triples are actually the most unrealistic compared to wearing a helmet which you have to do in any kind of legit racing experience. Triples are the most realistic in any kind of street car application like canyon driving or something like that but not racing. I'm only being this descriptive because you don't even realize it but your own description of why you do it ("it's the only way I can navigate without an ultrawide/triple monitor setup and truly know what's going on around me") is in fact my exact argument for why you shouldn't lol. It's not realistic and it gives you an unfair advantage over the people who choose to play with as much realism as possible. Anyways, I was in no way trying to say you or anyone else should play a certain way. Play how you want. You paid for it. I just wish they would separate us so you don't get those advantages against me lol. Anyway I'd be glad to have you on sometime and have a friendly discussion about it. I genuinely enjoy hearing other peoples opinions on these spicy topics!

@datdonedude8765

7 ай бұрын

Try crew chief. Will call out drivers around you

I cant play in chase cam at all.. it is fun for Need for Speeds etc. For GT i use Hood cam. For ACC i use in car. I dont think one is faster it really is a matter of preference. Ultimately it is still.only a game. I dont necessarily agree with your take but it doesnt mean i will flame you. Each to his own..

@lucasnatson6536

7 ай бұрын

Same thing. I just cant feel car the same using 3rd person on the wheel, was trying just to see, but i am pov 1st person driver all the time. Driving at the shutoko, bumper to bumper, in first persion there is no way to not crash driving that close with traffic, leading car can juke me so easly cuz i see shit what is in front. Still driving cockpit

My thoughts are this, if it’s casual, as long as they aren’t cheating, I don’t care. But when talking ranked like iracing or LFM, one of the styles of cockpit cams, I can understand virtual mirrors assuming the cars actually have mirrors to use. But the true difficulty with some race cars like open wheel racers is just how little you can see.

it would be too much division unfortunately, you could lock the cam or h pattern & clutch etc but you'd just end up alienating people, I think in essence we need to support each other in our mututal endeavor hoping that enjoyment was had by all, win at all cost is never a good ethic or a considerate one ;)

People who play casually should be allowed to play in whatever view they choose, I have no issue there BUT BUT BUT ESPORTS drivers SHOULD BE USING COCKPIT CAM ONLY! Using T-Cam in F1 looks so NOOB being able to see the apexes miles in advance!

I'm pretty sure that people setting up a race can lock the view to cockpit.

There are so many factors which determine how even a race is, exploiting* can be seen to be used on many levels depending on your perception. imo it's not just down to the player view point, you could include many things which makes a race unfair. If started having all same vehicles with a fixed setup, completely new tracks noone has seen nor raced on before, etc... you will be heading more towards a race which determines who is the best driver of that event, making it equal and balanced for all! 😉 so where does it end??? lol. Personally i'd love to see procedurally generated tracks in competitions and races, get people driving by the seat of their pants, reliant on instinct and skill rather than a practiced memory, seperate the men from the boys and find out who really is fast and can drive so to speak 😮 haha.😂❤

I race for the fun of it. Not necessarily to win, but having a great race competition is what is important to me. Psvr2 only allows for cockpit view and to me is the most immersive. Online competition racing works better from bumper view. A dedicated race session for VR only would be great, but 🎉single player races with Sophy 2 are good in VR as is. I hate a The aggressive ignorant and immature competitors usually found on daily race B and C.

I think it’s harder to race with the chase cam. Maybe I’m in the minority.

The issue is that simracing developers want to eat the cake and have it. Simracing is supposedly a way to experience real life motorsport on your computer. That said, some stuff is being realistically represented, while some stuff is being arbitrarily omissed. This creates a competitive environment that isn't bound by the same rules and limitations that real motorsport is, which forces those more aware and knowledgable motorsport fans to impose some limitations on themselves to get a more realistic experience, but those limitations won't apply to their competitors. But that doesn't need to be the case, if only those simracing developers grew a spine and imposed those limitations themselves. You have first person shooters, for example, and nobody says it's against player's freedom to impose first person perspective on them. It serves the genre's integrity and competitive quality. Competitive players will always take whatever competitive environment they're in and try to maximize it. There's no need to separate the lobbies. It's only a matter of imposing those rules on competitive players. I'd say the same with practice time, though this one is extremely controversial. Real motorsport does not have unlimited testing time. And neither should virtual. Simracing games should impose limitations on practice time to emulate time and resource constrains of real motorsport, alongside tyre allocation. Real drivers don't have tens of hours to test different setups, they don't have hundreds of fresh tyre sets to eat through. Of course peeps will say they bought the game and they want to use it however they want. But do you want it realistic? Let's have it realistic. Limitations are part of the challenge, of the experience you're buying into, you want to recreate. You don't want that? Play another game. That's my take on it.

@DanDiMaggio

7 ай бұрын

Totally agree! And you're spot on about the practice time. Honestly I haven't really even thought about that aspect but it's so true. Sure would help people like myself who don't have hours to practice to be more competitive as well!

I would rather think that driving in chase cam is a disadvantage in simracing.

I think everyone should use the view which you are most comfortable with. I play Gran Turismo since 1997. Until Gran Turismo Sport I've always played with a pad. During Gran Turismo Sport I've changed to a wheel. But I've never changed the chase cam view to another. Every now an then I've tried bumper cam, but for me chase cam is still the best. A lot of very fast sim-racers are using chase cam, too. I have no idea why people have a problem with the camera view of other peoples racing game.

This question will not have an answer for the next 3 4 generations…in my opinion there are several items to be taken into account, one monitor, three monitors, curved monitor, VR…I don’t think it is possible to say one is simulator other one is a game. At the end…drive for fun, respect the other drivers and study to improve…👋🏻👋🏻Dan

People complaining about chase cam but it’s there for a reason.

Eh, I like the cockpit view but it doesn't feel right. As in the spacial awareness I get is less then irl but the chase cam feels right in relation to that. Idk if that makes sense.

The furthest from the car for me. I never use the cockpit cam cause I just want to see outside the car.

in all honesty wtf does it matter what view you play in? does NOT playing in cockpit view give you an edge? hell no it doesn't, this whole topic is just stupid the only thing different is the feeling of speed i dont get that in cockpit view

@mementomori4972

6 ай бұрын

He explained it in the video.

If i paid for it ill use it how i please..always makes me laugh when i hear the pov police compain ..people need to realise they dont own u

Utter rubbish. The only way cockpit view is ‘immersive’ is if you are completely blind in one eye and your head is nailed to the headrest. Now, that doesn’t sound particularly realistic, does it..? The only way cockpit view becomes realistic is with a triple screen system, which consoles cannot do, or a PS5/PSVR system. None of which are cheap enough for most gamers, casual or not… If you are utterly blind to one entire side of the car (given a realistic FOV) you certainly ARE at a disadvantage, and quite honestly would never be allowed on a real race track. But it’s a disadvantage you CHOOSE. This is just typical ‘elitist’ sim racer crap. Using bumper, roof, dash or even chase cam makes you a MORE realistic driver, because you can see both sides of your car, and are peripherally aware of traffic around you. What the OP is really whining about is other behaviors of the ‘win at all cost’ drivers, some of which are in cockpit view as well. Racing clean is a mindset, not a particular view. And if you decide to adopt cockpit ‘half-view’ it’s actually YOU that are deciding to race less safely. You want ‘realism’, get a VR rig, or a triple screen system, and turn off ALL the telemetry including radars. Until then, try harder to boil down why you don’t want to race safe drivers in other views. You’re a one legged runner in a two legged race, bitching about how unfair that is, when it is YOU who chose to tie down the other leg…

@mementomori4972

6 ай бұрын

The point is, it's more immersive and more realistic then the chase cam. We chase immersion as much as possible within the limitations of the technology. You can cope with this simple truth as much as you like but if you don't understand the point of a simulation, you should rather stick with your gamepad, your gran tourismo and your forza. Besides, real cars have telemetry too.

@1RolandG70

6 ай бұрын

@@mementomori4972 No, it’s equally terrible. You’re not a one eyed driver, are you?! Triple screen, yup, THAT’S immersive. Same FoV as real life. Hate to burst your elitist bubble, but on console there is NO immersive view. BTW, thanks for ASSuming I use chase cam. I don’t. Feeling dumb now? Of course you don’t. Got a real attitude there, Sonny.

@mementomori4972

6 ай бұрын

@@1RolandG70 Your one eye argument makes no sense whatsoever. You're literally pulling arguments out of your butt hole to cope with your insecurities in the sim. Every cockpit view is more realistic and immersive than a chase cam. Period. No matter if single screen, with the option to look left or right, or a triple screen. Have you ever driven a real car with a helmet on track? Do you know how limited your field of view is? Again, If that's your opinion, stick with your arcade games and your chase cam. A racing simulation (look the word up) is nothing for you.

@1RolandG70

6 ай бұрын

@@mementomori4972 Feel free to be as deluded as you like. And don’t forget to insult complete strangers. We’re done here, I don’t have time for trolls. All you have is an opinion. No more valid than anyone’s. Now get back to your Mommy’s basement and work on your fake racing ‘career’.

@awakeandwatching953

25 күн бұрын

@@1RolandG70 iracing only allows cockpit.. im ok with hood/bonnet cams along with cockpits so those on smaller screens are not totally gimped but proper ranked sim racing like acc, lfm, i racing etc should be limited to those 2 cameras.. yu can already adjust the fov on every pc sim racing title any way which is why you hardly ever see pc sim racers in chase cam.. simcade is a different subject.. limited visibility and blind spots are an issue in real racing to.. sims should have spotters and radar any way but proper sims are normally very hard to drive with a controller edit. i drive vr only at the mo and while yes you get a bit of an advantage in learning tracks quicker and general awareness i still use a radar and was thinking of putting virtual mirror back on cause some race cars have god awful rear and side mirrors lol

Really idiotic video. Wants the most "immersion" and "realism" possible and complains about other views......while sitting on a couch with his cat on his lap going 200mph down Nurburgring holding a controller. Check.....realism.......

@DanDiMaggio

4 ай бұрын

I do have cats and sometimes they do sit on my lap. But I couldn't tell you the last time I played a game with a controller. Got my first wheel over 10 years ago and never looked back. Still a bit confused if this comment was directed at me but if it was just wanted to clarify I'm a wheel user lol

Silly take. How about I’ll use the view I want with the game I bought.

@mac16a

5 ай бұрын

You're not having fun alone. Be a fair player.

@LaurynasSFM

4 ай бұрын

@@mac16ain a competitive structure people are gonna use the camera that makes them faster. If people with a single monitor can be faster with a chase cam then let them do it. It's never going to be equal. A guy who owns a VR set and drivers from the cockpit has an unfair advantage over those who have a single monitor too.

@PhilipJaehnert

4 ай бұрын

Why not having a button called "Instant Win", in the game you bought. Would you push it?

@ViperJon

4 ай бұрын

@@PhilipJaehnertIts obvious your lobotomy didn't work. Try again?