I think it would be really cool to have a layout that only had loco that were designed but never made it into service in real life.

@trainguy69

Жыл бұрын

the shadow realm of steam locomotives

@gamerfan8445

Жыл бұрын

@@trainguy69 I love to see the Lner 4-8-2 in model from

@SamsTrains

Жыл бұрын

That would be amazing - and you just know that a model like that would sell! I wonder how many designs existed that were never built?? Thanks for watching, Sam :)

@jugbywellington1134

Жыл бұрын

The designs proposed by Hunslet for the Lynton and Barnstaple Railway are much more pleasing to the eye than the Manning-Wardle ones. Shame they weren't used.

@freddrick_fazbear

Жыл бұрын

​@@SamsTrains you're so formal

Hi Sam. great vid as always. Just a couple of points about photographic grey. The main point wasn't to 'sell' the loco, after all most railways built their own engines and by enlarge didn't sell them to other railway. It was infact illegal for that to happen in order to protect the markets of the small independent builders (although they were allowed to sell on second hand locos). The main point of the grey livery was to provide a neutral background to show up lining, lettering and other embellishments. These photos were then used in the companies paint shops as templates for the sign writers to and detail applicators' to work from. And it was fairly common for a grey loco to run in service, either on running in turns or when they were needed ASaP due to a locomotive shortage and there wasn't time for the loco to spend the week or so needed for a full livery to be applied. There were also a number of private and industrial lines that used a grey livery as standard. The Inland Waterways and Docks Board of the War Office used a grey livery lined in black on its locos in the first world war for example and Avonside 0-6-0st 'Portbury' (works number 1746) is preserved in this livery on the Bristol Harbour Railway. She looks lovely in it as well. Give her a google. Keep up the good work Jon

@malcolmtaylor518

Жыл бұрын

North British Locomotives come to mind as selling their locos for export and to British railway companies, then we have Pecket, Avon side, etc. British railway companies like to "rebuild" their locos, even if the loco was a new design since they were able to charge the rebuild cost to their revenue account mitigating their tax bill. Buying or building for Capital only allowed depreciation.

Can’t believe you missed the “Silver” A4’s from the list! They were a light grey and looked stunning.

@davidballoid2118

Жыл бұрын

He sure can Buzz Kill now can't he? 😞😩LOL!

@SamsTrains

Жыл бұрын

haha yeah - I thought those were supposed to be more silver than grey, so I left that one out! Plus the example I have is Bachmann, which isn't great! Thanks for watching, Sam :)

I ain't gonna lie. Grey fits a few locos very well. Especially photographic grey. That grey is beautiful.

I have had a sad experience and I would not be surprised to find that the next chapter in Hornby’s history could be ‘In memoriam’. At the Scottish Model Railway exhibition the layouts were incredible. Missing from the exhibition were the future generation of model train enthusiasts - there were many people of a senior age, but very few young people. I also noted the huge amounts of Hornby stock that were waiting to be sold. I hope that I am wrong in what I think that lies ahead.

I think they should make available a molded primer version with separately applied decals. At a reduced price so the rivet counter people can airbrush the "true livery colors" and apply "correct road numbers and fonts" etc.

@jackpijjin4088

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Would be great for customs too! I'd love to have some little locos in a dark orange.

the cie 121 class was delivered and spent its first year in service in photographic grey, Also available in model form. old cie freight steam livery was an old grubby dark grey also.

SECR grey was a wartime expedient during World War I. Not just for the P Class - all locos in the full Wainwright lined green or the slightly less-ornate lined goods green were painted unlined battleship grey with big white numbers. Also during the war, the SECR’s ornately lined dark lake coaches were all painted over with a dull unlined Wellington brown. Bachmann actually did versions of their SECR birdcage stock in the Wellington brown. And of course SECR wartime grey has appeared on the Bachmann N Class as well as Rails of Sheffield’s SECR D Class and D1 Class.

Thinking about full sized locos - the first 4 LNER A4 locos were in a silver/grey livery and even were named after the colour silver.

@CustomiZe_

Жыл бұрын

Silver link, silver fox etc 👍

A good one I got is the LNER A4 Kingfisher in photographic grey. It’s quite rare to find. Also got Silver King and Silver Fox, delightful models!

@SamsTrains

Жыл бұрын

Ahh that sounds amazing - definitely look after those!! Thanks for watching, Sam :)

The Faversham to Oare gunpowder and munitions works in Kent during WW1 was run by the Navy. The engines, from memory Hunslet o-6-o tanks, were painted battleship grey with an anchor motif on the side of the tanks.

Great video Sam. Regarding grey locomotives entering service the New South Wales Government Railways (NSWGR) had designed a 4-6-2 Pacific locomotive for its system but when the design was finished World War ll had started so the construction of these locomotives was delayed. The first 5 were built to a semi-streamlined design. When they were released to traffic they were painted in workshop grey due to war restrictions and were nick named 'Grey Nurse' after a type of shark that was in NSW coastal waters. Another 25 were built to a standard steam locomotive shape and were painted green from new with the first 5 also being painted green.

In Canada the Canadian Pacific ran their passenger locomotives in grey with maroon trim and black smokeboxes.

@ianhartley395

Жыл бұрын

I would love to see Sam review a Rapido Royal Hudson.

Nice looking locos! Now, those kinds of paintwork are great.

There are a few cases of locomotives running in service for a time in photographic grey livery for trial purposes. The GER ran a few of their suburban tanks in photographic grey for example, and the Great Central did the same for a few of Robinson's new designs. The SE&CR Grey arose as an austerity measure almost immediately on the outbreak of war (after a brief trial of a plain green livery in the same style), and continued to be the case up to grouping on all classes. The Large numbers were used to aid a train reporting system introduced just prior to WWI.

This reminds me of how the old sitcom adaptation of The Addams Family had pink walls to brighten up the sets, which went unnoticed by viewers due to the series being in monochrome.

Sam, A4 locos, Silver Fox, Link, King and Quicksilver were grey. The GER used grey during WW1 as did SECR. In WW2 the S160 locos as imported from the USA were grey. Recently various diesel locos were done in grey, eg. Class 20s, 37, 47, 56 and 58 all appeared in that colour and there may be more. These examples are from memory.

There's one type of Grey you forgot to mention, War Time Grey. The Oxford N7 for example

Didn't the A4's, Silver Link, Silver Fox and Quicksilver initially run in a light grey livery ( I guess they were thinking of Silver) with coaches of the same colour ?

The wheel arrangement of the Garrett is 2-6-0 0-6-2 not 2-6-0 2-6-0 as you described. Private Owner locomotives would be in whatever colour the customer wanted. Many of them were kept in clean condition. The Hush Hush was nicknamed "The Flying Banana".

Hey Sam, I used to watch your videos all of the time about 3-4 years ago. I'm glad you're still doing well. You don't know how much I used to enjoy your videos. I've gotten into model trains again so I thought why not start watching your videos again? I'm glad to be back. :)

I loved old works photos of locos in grey and back in the past photos of real or model trains were black and white. I have often wondered what it would be like to create a layout where everything was in monochrome, is the trains, the buildings and even the scenery to replicate a black and white photo. It would I feel be very challenging artistically.

Grey locomotives are perfectly fine. I know of many locomotives that were grey. The Union Pacific, New York Central, and Southern Pacific used many grey locomotives practically. The Baldwin Locomotive Works tended to build their locomotives in grey.

Can't agree more that these locos looks seriously good in gray. The contrast makes the shape stands out better than in any color. There was also a trend in the 50-60's with all aluminum streamlined light-weight trains to have them unpainted, leaving them bright and shiny. A good example is the Aerotrain by GM, which looks even better in black and white pictures! So the old trick of stream engine manufacturers still worked nearly a century later.

During the Great War, and afterwards, certain railways in Britain did actually paint their locomotives in grey - a mid to dark shade known as battleship grey. The principle companies were the Great Eastern and the South Eastern & Chatham. This was probably all they could get to use due to wartime procurement problems. Similarly after the nationalisation of the railways in Eire under the Great Southern, the standard livery for the narrow gauge engines was again a dull (war surplus?) grey.

For photographic grey (or Fotografieranstrich as it was known in German): These locomotives were painted in their final livery, then overpainted with chalk and carbon black lining. For true grey liveries: The DRG did have grey locomotives during WW2, both steam and electric. There were also grey diesels but those were allocated to the Army.

Grey was actually fairly common on diesel locomotives over here in the states. Most of the Southern Pacific fleet was a dark grey and for many years the livery for CSX was grey with a blue/yellow cab and stripes.

I really liked how Tornado came out the workshop in Photographic grey when it was completed. Would certainly get one of those. This grey had a hint of blue to it and I think it suited the locomotive the best.

I got the Hornby LNER Azuma HST at my exhibition yesterday and its great. I highly recommend it

Great video! IMO, these liveries definitely should have existed! Like to see these running sessions, maybe you could do another shunting video?

@SamsTrains

Жыл бұрын

Thank you! And sure, the shunting videos were great fun actually :D Thanks for watching, Sam :)

Until I watched your video, my favourite grey livered locos were Railfreight 37s with full yellow ends, black bonnets and red trim, and the Hornby Hush Hush. But now I have to add that little Hitachi Sentinel to the list. Great looking loco.

Sam, you do a search for Union Pacific Grayhound livery. The UP 844, or AKA 8444, had run with the gray livery for a while. I heard that the crews had a hard time keeping the loco clean

We absolutely love the precious one we have in that colour. The design does show best in that paint scheme, which for us concerns the mighty never produced mallet type Borsig BR53 2-6-8-0. It would have been Germany’s ‘Big Boy’. Märklin brought out many revisions of that design from 1979 up to 2019, but for collectors only 1989 to be had in grey as well, besides standard black-red. The story of the BR 53 isn’t well known other than that Borsig Lokomotiv-Werke (locomotive-works) had her on the development table, but WWII broke out and the loco was too complicated. Hence the focus went to the BR 52 instead. There are rumours that production had commenced of wheels and axles but the factory was bombed and destroyed by the allies. At least the BR 53 lives in H0 scale by Märklin 🙂

Honestly the photographic gray holds up even scaled down and in person. Makes all the details pop

this color was in comon use in works photos from the german locomotive companies schwarzkopf and borsig of berlin. grey paint gave a better sharpnes and contrast . back then they used phospoerus powder befor the light bulb was used for flash. keep up the good work sam. 🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪👍👍👍👍👍

👍Thanks for the video Sam . I have the Grey DJM 1361 and love it . Nice slower running . A "little" noisy with all the internal gears . Great proportions. Have a good one everybody !

@SamsTrains

Жыл бұрын

It's a pleasure! Yes it's a noisy/over-engineered loco, but the performance is fine! Really glad you liked this, Thanks for watching, Sam :)

Yep I like the Grey 'Hush-Hush' Loco - looks quite stunning / c😎😎l 🙂🚂🚂🚂

I love seeing the hush hush it’s so unique and I love it’s design

Another great video. A very interesting question and explanation. Modern airplanes made by Boeing are made in aluminum gray with the offer to buyers to be painted to the buyers specs.

So much fun to watch!

I honestly think all these gray liveries look great on each model you’ve presented, especially on the last three. The two tone gray on the diesel shunter gives it a nice modern look along with the wasp hazard stripes on the sides and bufferbeams, and the darker grays look absolutely splendid on the 0-6-0 tank engine and the ‘Hush-Hush’ locomotive; it really makes me wish gray would’ve been made a more regular color for steam and diesel engines of just about any class. And come to think of it, I find it rather sad that the ‘Hush-Hush’ loco didn’t survive into preservation, I think it would’ve been a great addition to British Railways’ preserved collection, maybe even a fine engine to run heritage trains with.

That was a fun video, Sam. Thanks for another look at some great models.

@SamsTrains

Жыл бұрын

Thank you so much! Glad you liked it! :D Thanks for watching, Sam :)

Great subject for a video. I have the Peckett which I think looks great. I like the Hitachi Sentinel. Tempted to get one. Cheers Paul.

That Hitachi looks out of this world!

754 looks more Slate Blue than grey, but still looks good, even with those red coaches.

I bought one of those 1361 locos from your review and I quite agree. I have just featured it in my latest model railway video upload and someone has commented its just right for use as a Ghost train!

They have a really nice grey 0-4-0 'Victory' at Whitwell & Reepham railway in Norfolk.

‘Photographic or Shop Grey’ was seen on the Duchess of Hamilton which did operate, in streamlined form, with this colour for three months in late 1938 before being painted in lined Crimson Lake in December of that year, but I don't think anybody has produced a model of this loco in this livery.

Taking weathering into account, my favorite grey livery would be the Hush-Hush. It seems like coal dust wouldn’t stand out as much, and it’s bold and experimental imo, which fits the engine rather well. Throwing in my own candidate, I would like to nominate the Battleship Grey scheme from Kansas City Southern. I’d like to own an engine in this one day.

Quick Sam! a railway worker's had heart attack on the station platform, it is so bad there is puss coming of his foot! Better get your ambulance train to the rescue (4:44). Great video on Photographic livery they do look better than the normal liveried engines thanks to the lining contrasting with the rest of the body!

I love the LMS Garratt and the LNER Hush-Hush! This has been your most interesting project in general.

What a super video - and such a great range of grey liveries. The only well-known one missing - and I understand why you don't have it in your collection - would be the silver-grey London underground livery!

@SamsTrains

Жыл бұрын

Thanks very much Rick - and absolutely, I'd love to get something in that livery too! :D Thanks for watching, Sam :)

I have the Peckett W4 for Hornby's centenary celebration. I really love the look of the grey on it. I don't really care if it's prototypical or not; it's one of my favorite locos in my collection and I love running it. Great video as always!

You know even in 1967 D400 was photographed in grey primer undercoat with black painted jumper sockets at Vulcan foundry I think it even had a test run in that guise 😊

Thanks for an interesting video Sam. If it's prototypical then it's good to have the opportunity to own one. if you want one. I love the P class which looked great with the rake of Genesis coaches. Cheers!

@SamsTrains

Жыл бұрын

I agree David - particularly with the P class - one of my first grey steamers that one, and still one of my favourites too! Thanks for watching, Sam :)

photographic grey was used by all builders big and small to sell the locomotives, but not only to sell those particular locomotives to other countries. What it did was to say you've just spent a ton of money with us so here's some really hot piccies of your loco to stick in the general managers desk to remind him how awesome our stuff is and to come back and buy some more. North British biggest order through the decade of the thirties was an order for New Zealand so likely they were quite keen on getting a repeat order and if some pretty pics helps well and good. And painting a loco is a darn sight cheaper than some of those 1/8 scale models of the loco some builders would present. And the sales rep can swing around some pretty pics to show what they've made... Hush hush probably was just painted dark grey as it looked moderne. Same as commodore Vanderbilt or coronation set. It looked streamlined and metallic and futuramic, like an aeroplane or a dirigible. Not old fashioned and painted. Another funny thing is sometimes the photographic grey loco had intricate lining, fictitious road numbers, and the customers name embellishment was entirely up to the imagination of the builder. Great video.

I like the photographic grey along with the darker gray which is the Hush Hush grey! Grey is such an interesting look for these locomotives!

WOW! Nice reviews Sam! Keep up the work and you’ll go far! I got a question. I know you like trains, but do you like boats?

Really interesting video Sam.

Would be great to see modern locomotives in photographic grey.

The SECR grey livery was introduced towards the end of World War 1 as an austerity measure and as a result of more colourful paints be difficult / expensive to obtain. The Grey lasted until grouping in 1923 The grey was preceded by a plain green with yellow lettering introduced by Maunsell shortly before WW1 started. This replaced the ornate Wainwright livery.

Hi Sam, another excellent production! I've ordered a grey Leader over a year ago from KR Models specifically in its prototype grey colour as I thought it would accentuate the lines and shape of this engine rather than the green and other colours to choose from! Whenever i get this off K R Models I'm sure I'm going to be delighted with it, if that ever happens! Delay after delay so far to the point I keep forgetting about the order!!!!

@SamsTrains

Жыл бұрын

Thank you!! Ahh that sounds good - hopefully those models will turn out decent! :D Thanks for watching, Sam :)

I recently found out that they also sometimes shipped them over in grey as it helped combat the sea-air.

Thank you, Sam - great vid as always. I'm a fan of the Cambrian Railways, who painted their engines black until the Great War, when repaints were done in "French Grey," presumably for cost's sake. Maybe your SECR engine is from that period?

@ianjeffery6744

Жыл бұрын

The SECR replaced its Brunswick Green with the grey livery as an austerity measure round about the time of WW1, and it remained their standard livery until the 1923 grouping.

Yes I think grey steam loco look interesting 👍and Good luck with your new series of live streams ☺☺

As we all know, grey is still a livery colour that is quite widely used to this day, used on wagons and locos as well. I have 3 locos in grey on my layout as we speak/type, a 31, a 50 and a 60...also a tank wagon...a good interesting video Sam. Take care, Jon B.

Those photographic grey locos remind me of the white diecast toy cars that were sold about 30+ years ago with felt tip pens so you could put your own liveries on them. I won't mention these too much in case Hornby decides this is a good idea to put to market with a wildly inflated price 😉

The Great Southern Railways in Ireland (1925 - 1945) painted their engines a dark grey, though it usually looks black in photos!

Hi Sam, Nice choice, I do like the Gray engine's, ( there is no stories of little Gray engine's) l wish I had a few more, All the best Brian 😃

My sort of Thomas OC of G16 (surprised you showed it!), I haven't really a livery (despite the nickname Black Tank); thinking about black or a whiter like photo with the basic red lining. Haven't a number decided either. As for the Y10 I'm pairing it with, that'll be purple and numbered 2012.

Interesting video. Certainly the North Eastern Railway photographed every variant of each loco class in photographic grey. The glass plate negatives of the time only took black and white, and the plates weren't panchromatic, i.e. red or orange lining on green didn't show up on the negative plate and as a result the loco looks unlined on a period photo. The photographic grey shows up how the loco is lined, often for publicity. Main works couldn't sell new engines to any other railway- with a few notable exceptions so it wasn't for sales. On the other hand the private builders did their photos to put in their catalogues. As to seeing a photographic grey loco in service, some works ran the grey loco for a short while to run it in before returning it to works, correcting any faults and then repainting into livery. It saved expensively painting it twice, especially on those locos that used real gold in the lining.

15:30 - The Hush-Hush even has the Flying Scotsman name on its front. I saw a photo of the engine with Gresley and the engine crew standing in front of the boiler.

@nikerailfanningttm9046

Жыл бұрын

She was pressed into service and was occasionally put on the Flying Scotsman Service, amazingly she ran to time with the Scotsman, not once was she late with the LNER’s Flagship Express.

There was Union Pacific's overland scheme that it only put on it's steam locomotives and some passenger cars. (Such as that horrible bachman model), but also on the challenger, FEFs (4-8-4s, mountains, (4-8-2) and pacifics, it's basically two tone light gray with dark grey stripes. New york central also had a very similiar color scheme during the transition era such as on it's streamliners the commodore, mercury, and the twentieth century limited,

Thank you for producing an interesting video on an unlikely subject. I would give this a ten!

@SamsTrains

Жыл бұрын

Thanks a lot Ian, really appreciate that! :D Thanks for watching, Sam :)

Great episode Sam. Really enjoyed it. My personal favourite grey loco is Bulleid's 'Leader' Class. Perhaps you can do a review one day?

@SamsTrains

Жыл бұрын

Thank you Ruby! Ahh fantastic - yes I'm hoping to do a review on one of those! :D Thanks for watching, Sam :)

Really enjoyed this video every informative, learnt a few things I didn't know too, for some reason the P Class with red Hatton genius coaches made me think Christmas for some odd reasons. I really like the D.G.M 1361 Locomotives something about looks really cool.

Black and white film of the era didn't always record color evenly and some colors would come out darker or lighter than they actually were. Gray would be an ideal color to photograph. You can see the effect even with movie film of the time, the cause of some of the odd looking application of make up on the performers.

@aveedub7403

Жыл бұрын

I agree It's a pity some of the old photos and videos doing the rounds cannot be colourised as have some Laurel & Hardy films et al! I suppose the expense is an issue!

I think grey looks great, especially the garret and hush hush. But the tanks are my fav. Can’t go wrong with an 0-4 or 0-6-0

@Cape_Cod_Steve

Жыл бұрын

Agreed👍

Great video Sam, Although the grey is nice, I think steam engines look better in all black. Just seems more authentic in my opinion!

Great video 👍 For me it has to be the old timer photographic grey it just stands out so well against the background and really makes the engine pop compared to a normal livery where you can loose the detail. Damn I now have a really bad urge to go and buy some more grey Locomotives, lots and lots of grey Locomotives.😊

@SamsTrains

Жыл бұрын

Thanks a lot John - I agree - looks just amazing doesn't it?? :D Thanks for watching, Sam :)

Tornado was painted in photgraphic grey before painted in Apple Green. It would be interesting to put it in model form

Dark grey with yellow and black chevron stripes on both ends, that's the way to go.

They still got some Garrett's running in south Africa right now.

Most interesting Sam. I'd be interested in knowing the manufacturer that makes the 1361 class locos (and any other grey livery ones too). I agree, there is something striking about the "works grey". I'd love to get a nice example of that. Cheers, Angus.

Wartime grey locos too, and of course Tornado ran in grey when it was first outshopped.

Interesting subject, Sam. I never knew it went that deep. Thanks for the vid. (Please get Chloe to revive some dead people seen in your scenics)! Lol

Yeah they should I like the grey ones!!!!!

I never really thought about grey livery’s much but I do like the way they look. I like the way they look on small engines more than on the bigger ones. To me the smaller engines look classy and interesting but to me the bigger engines look boring and plain. Take the green and blue livery’s on the large engines to me it makes them pop with excitement. I do like the grays for a different look it shakes up the normal.great idea for a video keep those great ideas coming.

@SamsTrains

Жыл бұрын

Yeah they greys do seem to be overlooked a tad! That's an interesting point about size - the smaller engines do seem to look better, though maybe the Garratt looks plain because the livery there is super simple?? Thanks for watching, Sam :)

Most war locomotives are gray for camouflage reason. For modelers doing the world war theme their options are mostly just gray and black. Some locomotives keep their camo paint long after the war.

You should get an NYC Streamlined Hudson. They are gray as well

Very interesting. Right enough grey tends to be something more closely affiliated with Diesels but can look well on steam engines. Interestingly a lot of older Diesels do look timeless once a more modern livery is applied to them. Once they get a new livery you forget how old they are. A Class 20 under DRS certainly looks new versus one in the older green livery. The colour just does it.

Super examples. Yes there should be greys out and about, todays trains and the 90’s have a large number of white trains (connect) etc, 465 466 emu’s , greater anglia newer trains are an off white, silver/grey. The network has been a mixed pot of colours over the last few decades. Some distinctive and some disturbing. Love the variety available. Keep sharing this type of information, always a good thinking topic. ✅✅🌟

@SamsTrains

Жыл бұрын

Thanks very much Paul - appreciate the comment! All the best, Sam :)

There's story about the GER's Stratford Works setting a record for the fastest assembled tender locomotive. They made a Y14 out from pre fabbed parts in under 10 hours, coated in grey primer only. It then ran on the network for 36K miles before coming in and actually being painted. That would be a legitimately interesting one to model.

Awesome video today Sam very interesting and happy birthday from yesterday

You can't unsee that grey.

My favorite is the peckett splendid little girl.

They look really cute I kinda want one

I have several grey locomotives and at least one on order. The Railway Operating division used grey although black mostly. Some went to France directly from the manufacturers in grey and some returned in grey. The American Pershings were in often painted in grey too. So for the ROD, grey is prototypical, unlike the stupid kharki Oxford Rail and Hornby used/will use.

1:13 - Johan’s basis!

could you have called the original "Silver" series of LNER A4's grey, as in reality they were two tone grey.