My documentary on RF-EMF Genotoxic Human Rights Scandal kzread.info/dash/bejne/lXZklNqBh6_Tk9I.html

No wonder they couldn't handle this man. He is just too honest. He revealed the utter nakedness of the emperor.

@meghan42

3 жыл бұрын

In this case, the emperor is the human ego, and it is destroying the world.

@WickedG5150

3 жыл бұрын

King, not emperor.

@JonathanAllen0379

5 ай бұрын

​@@meghan42This!👏🏼💯🎯

Shout out to the interviewer David Suzuki who made a marvellous job.

@oldnait

2 ай бұрын

He broke the ending of the interview of purpose, unfortunately. Was his decision

Man, TV used to be HIGH LEVEL

Marvelous. He starts explaining physics, then explain spirituality, then explains why the collective fails, all bound together. This line of thought is one of the best constructed ones I've ever saw in my life. And this was on the 70's. Fifty years later, we've still been running against each other and hitting our heads as a broken society in ways that really annoys me.

How has this man's deep understanding of the nature of our physical reality not become the paradigm of our times? It makes such sense, and resolves many of the problems that scientists seem to have with relativity and quantum physics, and is also so consistent with metaphysical descriptions of nature. Now that I know that Bohm can be seen and heard on youtube (I hadn't even considered that possibility before), I have many days of discovery ahead of me. And he speaks with Krishnamurti! My God, this is better than a 100 Christmases!

@FringeWizard2

5 жыл бұрын

This. All the other interpretations are garbage, fail to make sense, and don't account for the full range of phenomena the way David Bohm does. Bohm should be taught in the schools yet only a fringe of people actually know of him.

@Leenyazbek

4 жыл бұрын

Amen

@MrTrda

4 жыл бұрын

Agreed, and it all goes back to the battle between the Copenhagenists (Bohr, Heisenburg etc.) and the Einstein gang... As far as the Einstein camp (the anti-Copenhagenists such as myself) are concerned, quantum indeterminacy merely expresses our state of knowledge, not the state of the measured physical world. The particle *has* a specific velocity, location, and spin; the only "cloud of uncertainty" is the uncertainty of our *knowledge* about the particle. The only "collapse" of the wave is a (positive) collapse of our knowledge. There is no collapse in the physical system being measured; the particle has a particular position etc. at all times, independently of our act of measuring and being aware of the particle's parameters. This is all trivially obvious to the anti-Copenhagenists but as Huw Price points out, as I have always seen, the physicists adopted Copenhagenism by rejecting philosophical precision in their speech. They all made the cheating jump from "measurement impacts the particle" to "our awareness changes the particle". In addition to Price's description of the philosophical crudeness of such philosophizing by physicists, I investigate the psychological reasons *why* they all made this cheating jump. They propped up Copenhagenism because they wanted the mind to have power, including metaphysical freedom. Such power of consciousness is removed if you adopt hidden-variables determinism as we anti-Copenhagenists do. Copenhagenism is an invention of those with a covert agenda that lies outside physics: their real motivation for interpreting QM is to provide a safe haven for egoic metaphysical freedom and power, of a type that are not supported within a deterministic system.

@AnHebrewChild

4 жыл бұрын

Fringe Wizard YES. Bohm's model of "quantum" is so far ahead of the field it's laughable. Yet, the universities will push & pedal the wholesale nonsense that is Copenhagen and discuss "many worlds" and "holographic universe," while acting like Bohmian mechanics doesn't exist. Physics friends have told me their experiences, which are parallel to my own as an Econ major.... I did not hear a word from or even hardly the _names_ of economists like Hayek & Mises. It's a similar absurdity to the QM world. I suspect that the case is similar in many / maybe most majors & disciplines.

@lucianon.carvalho6929

4 жыл бұрын

As he stated in this video, the theorists are too busy being theorists, and not applying it in a rational way. And this creates a huge gap in what is known and what is "useful"--in a sense of applicability to solve human and society's problems. In the other documentary Infinite Potential, about Dr. Bohm's life, it is possible to see how the academia shut him down, for his ideas weren't aligned with Einstein's or Bohr's. Now imagine that fifty or sixty years later, the "conventions" of what is being taught and the knowledge walls built by the academic environment are still present and going up. That's why this understanding is still not the paradigm of our times, unfortunately.

I was thrilled to see this new interview of Bohm pop up, thank you very much for posting. For me, David Bohm is among the bravest and boldest minds in the history of science.

@larrylyons9362

8 жыл бұрын

+Kahina K What SHE said!

@JamesCarmichael

8 жыл бұрын

+Kahina K I'll have what she's having....

@larrylyons9362

8 жыл бұрын

James Carmichael Ha-ha--make it a double!

@leonardopab5

8 жыл бұрын

+Kahina K One of the greatest minds who has ever stepped on earth.

@ibejiopo

8 жыл бұрын

+Kahina K I think Amit Goswami is equally as forward thinking.

I study physics and philosophy. Bohm's 'Wholeness and the Implicate Order' was a revelation to me and I'm still digesting it; I'm not sure I agree with its theses entirely, but it is profoundly original and genuinely startlingly insightful. It manages to articulate a deep metaphysical and aesthetic outlook that I feel comes intuitively but inarticulately to many of us. I imagine that this is partly why he is such a resonant figure with so many. Personally, I'm a somewhat aspergic, clinically bipolar, bookish type who is prone to wilting as a shrinking violet on the most frustrating occasions. I often feel that I recognise and identify with some of the palpable awkwardness that I sense whenever I watch Bohm. To me, despite his endearing shyness, Bohm had the daring boldness of utter originality combined with quiet brilliance and a gentle form of courageous tenacity. His remarkable and unusual combination of qualities made him a fascinating and complex person. As a result of all these things, he is a personal inspiration to me. It's always a pleasure to hear him talk; thanks for sharing the video!

@TEE19622

4 жыл бұрын

Do you see a similarity to Robin Williams in his speech and mannerisms? This is my 1st viewing of him and 1st hearing of his ideas but i think he may be coming across as a bit to firm. I am very open and feel each idea has its merit no matter how rediculous it may seem. To me the ultimate in ridiculousness is to think you are absolutely right.

@wizardatmath

4 жыл бұрын

Consider the healing effect of direct sunlight 🙏

@tomaszjaskowiak4855

3 жыл бұрын

Oh, how do you express yourself beautifully.

@meghan42

3 жыл бұрын

Bohm's relationship with Krishnamurti spanned about 30 years. I think bohm was able to recognize the falsity of the ego.

@paulussantosowidjaja93

3 жыл бұрын

@Bainsworth (",)

Most significant theoretical physicist of the 20th century. Love his captivating smile. A Secular saint!

The incredible Dr.Bohm. How fortunate for us all to hear this!

I love how he smiles a little at the end of every paradoxical statement. ;)

@user-op9de9gc2w

5 жыл бұрын

yes!!

@Pfuetzenspringer

4 жыл бұрын

At the end of EVERY statement 😊 I love that guy!

Yes, this may well be the best Bohm interview. I've heard about dozen Bohm interviews, usually with Bohm sounding uptight and hard-pressed. Here he's relaxed, forthcoming and even lighthearted. All thanks to David Suzuki, a truly gifted interviewer, intelligent, articulate and sympathetic yet probing. And Suzuki throughout is openly sceptical!

Dr. Bohm and J. Krishnamurti- a great combination. Dr. Bohm simplifies and explains the topic in such a way that anyone can understand it, at least to some extent. Captivating. Thanks for making it available.

in a hundred years this man will be revered as a saint, trust me. His intuitions are both mind-blowing and coherent from many points of view

@SpiritualSchmuck

2 жыл бұрын

All the ancient Rishis have been saying this for thousands of years.

@jonber9411

2 жыл бұрын

@@SpiritualSchmuck Whispers from a graveyard. We must see now.

@PlumGustave

Жыл бұрын

He’s very beautiful.

Enlightening, I am just a lay person at physics, but he is fascinating. But his summation of J. Krishnamurti helps me to understand Krishnamurti's central teaching for the first time in my life. The human thought program controls you, not the other way around, and only observation of your feelings and relationships can make you see its stupidity and thus erase it. I am not saying this is easy, but it is possible, we should all try to see the pointless nature of much of our human programming.

@thomasneemann5618

5 жыл бұрын

yes, to understand krishnamurti. dr bohm is very good.

@ArcAngle111

5 жыл бұрын

Every where I look all I see is a bunch if points.

@maciej.ratajczak

4 жыл бұрын

Psychedelics decondition and reintroduce novelty. There is an underground resurgence sweeping across the world, an archaic revival. Check out the channel Rebel Wisdom.

@sudiplamsal8152

4 жыл бұрын

I too felt the same. It was when I heard his summation of Krishnamurti's teaching, everything i heard from krishnamurti started making sense to me. During the talk with K, though his way of finding an answer is totally different form K's way, he is so patient and is keenly interested in knowing K's way. Just like this man.

@NormYip

4 жыл бұрын

Krishnamurti always appears to intentionally mystical when he speaks, and condescending in his tone. I am so glad I came across this interview and David’s explanation of what Krishmamurti is saying. So yes I agree with you fully. I guess I should read K’s books to gain deeper insight.

"Parts are abstractions of the Whole; they have no independent existence apart from the Whole" - this is a marvelous insight. In a different way, this is what Zeno was trying to show with his paradoxes.

I am so grateful that David Bohm's work is getting the attention and reconsideration he so justly deserves. The explicate order we brought about compels us to think more deeply and comprehensively. This reality has become unfit for Human habitation. So, we migrate.

Put a candle in a room and the whole room gets brighter.

@AG-SYS

8 жыл бұрын

Yet to maintain complete darkness requires infinitely more complex and continuous effort. This is precisely why the bad guys have never and can never truly 'win'.

@johnhennry4663

7 жыл бұрын

A G. ?Do we need the bad to recognize the good . Ying and yang . However I do understand your point .

@pedrogo4903

5 жыл бұрын

The light does not travel , the light only reflects himself if there's a surfaçe to be reflected is whon ilumination.Light is just a rate of indution in the Field himself by himself , is a pressure mediation of the field ( aether) himself.The Universe is an " effect" a projection like a simulation.

@theomanification

5 жыл бұрын

This is a beautiful statement. I am, however, going to hijack it when I say something smart to patronise and irritate my work colleagues

@Wouterferdinand

3 жыл бұрын

@@AG-SYS good point

This is indeed a great talk. I have been reading JK for almost a year. David Bohm beautifully connected the dots for me. Thanks for uploading this.

@Beahuman123

3 жыл бұрын

kzread.info/dash/bejne/c6OBtZebYrCygsY.html One of the best discussions of J. Krishnamurti. There are four parts of the discussion. Please do watch if you haven't already watched.

@PlumGustave

Жыл бұрын

I always found the dialogues with Bohm the most coherent. He knew how to handle K ♥️

I honestly haven’t got a clue about physics but after listening to this gentleman I feel as if I know everything 🤯 how I wish he was my science teacher

Appreciate this very much. I had only seen Dr. Bohm in dialogue with Krishnamurti. This interview was so enlightening on his thinking about science, philosophy and religion. Thank you. "The object of desire is not really desired at all it is merely a means to an end. " There's some Prajñā for you.

and here we see finally; 'material and spiritual is all óne..' Its our programming that separates them in our mind. thanks for sharing!

I recently discovered Krishna Murti and the discussions especially with David Bohm. I did not know he was a renowned physicist. His discussions with Murti made it possible for me to follow the thought treatise.

@RezaGanjavi

Жыл бұрын

His name is Krishnamurti :-) Jiddu Krishnamurti.

@brendawilliams8062

2 сағат бұрын

Some people find Daniel. This fellow beat a fiery furnace. Best buddy with the magic of the times and knew a few things about numbers. A king lost his mind. Came to himself and listened to

David was my first physics teacher in Birckbeck.

@brounwynsmith848

2 жыл бұрын

WOW

@Robb3348

Жыл бұрын

what was he like?

@oceanspruce

28 күн бұрын

I can't think of a better teacher of ANY subject, except perhaps Siddhartha Gautama.

This guy was a complete badass....such a humble affect, with such an incredibly deep and penetrating mind...great interviewer too...

David Bohm was my first physics teacher at Birckbeck College.

@bernardofitzpatrick5403

4 жыл бұрын

good fortune for you - must have been amazing.

"Once you accept the reality of the Ego, there is no way out. The Ego is nothing but a structure in the Whole, which can come and go"

@elenol1310

3 жыл бұрын

👏👏👏👏👏🍀

@SudhirDudeja

3 жыл бұрын

Ego is just abstraction of whole, very very very limited.

Newton and Tesla both said that if we don’t change our understanding about our reality.. we’ll always be stuck .. we can only go so far with our limited perspective..

I just love him.. people that brilliant are often uncomfortable and awkward around the rest of us dumbasses .. Lmao.. He seems to have a sense of humor about that.he keeps checking to see if we’re following what he’s saying, but he’s not condescending 💕.

@glockgrandma2517

4 жыл бұрын

I’m enjoying the interviewer admitting he’s barely hanging on lol me too! It’s so enjoyable to listen to Bohm while trying to quickly examine and follow along at the same time.

@gtrng9953

3 жыл бұрын

@@glockgrandma2517 dahaan

SO many decades later, and yet so relevant to what is happening right now! Seems that wherever I look; be that science or spirituality the answer is always the same. Hari Om Tat Sat

@SpiritualSchmuck

2 жыл бұрын

Autobiography of a Yogi deals alot with quantum physics and spirituality merging

In the future, David Bohm will be known as having contributed more to science and humanity than guys like Einstein and others and will be seen as more of a visionary and revolutionary thinker.

Such an amazing deep understanding of the nature of things! Much gratitude for this man!

Dr. David Bohm, Interviewed Bye The Legendary, Dr. David Suzuki... Thank You Vary Much... It was watching Dr. David Suzuki on TV as a Child that intrigued me to enroll to M.I.T. :)

@VictoriaToumit

5 жыл бұрын

I was almost going to ask about the interviewer. Thank you so much for the information!!!

Pure Genius, just love him! To be acted ONLY EVER by COLIN FIRTH in Mr Bohm's biopic :-)

Thank you for sharing! Loved this interview. I think David Bohm is one of the great giant of the modern science. A true original thinker of his time particularly with the Implicate and Explicate Order. I am truly blessed to be sharing a time with you all. The interconnected vision of the whole is part of you and you are part of that interconnected seeing; through Consciousness becoming the experiences. It is in the synchronicity that we can find our way out of this paradox. It is the focused energy that is from within Us that shine out there in reality as light. Energy and light. Light and energy. Two sides of the same coin beloved….. tis unconditional love. Love you all!

When I grow up I want to be intelligent enough to actually fully understand what Dr Bohm is talking about and be able to nod convincigly each time he asks, "Is that clear?"

@RezaGanjavi

2 жыл бұрын

You may want to read some J. Krishnamurti - go slowly - it will open a lot of doors in regards to your point about understanding Dr.Bohm...

This man is clearly a genius and so void of ego. He is exploring the gap between physics and consciousness and linking the failure of the human race's lack of progress with this lack of understanding. I am not lost on the irony of Suzuki saying we are out of time.

@brendawilliams8062

2 сағат бұрын

It’s all his community left him with. I agree with prayer absolutely. I also wonder if he was shortchanged. No offense to his followers

Dr. Bohm's whole demeanor emits a type of reverence lacking in the scientific community today. Excellent.

Boy, he definitely was a pioneer. I bet his piers had a field day making fun of him. He just put it out there and didn’t blink an eye about doing it. His connection with Krishnamurti was the icing on the cake for both of them in their careers. A great interview. It held my attention from beginning to end. No other scientists has ever been able to do that. Blessings ❤️

Thanks, Ganjavi, for posting. What a GREAT interview!

Very good talk . . the foundational problem of individuals, and mankind, is Separation . . . a program of Separation from the Whole, thus from people. Only in coming to know our innate Oneness will we "Think together" as Bohm said.

A genius who could go deeply into sceince , spirituality and human mind

@schmetterling4477

2 жыл бұрын

Except that the things he says on the scientific level are very long in the tooth. They would have been excusable at the end of the 1930s, but not in 1979.

Thank you for posting this video. I have shared this with our group.

It is enlightening to hear how Dr. Bohm describes the power inherent in a simple "thought" and the quality of our attention. The attentive capacity, which is the primal essence of our human soul, is a creative force that both gives meaning and propels the direction of the our enfoldment-our reality. Attention seems to be the only way we can touch the primal vibrations at the core of our thought programming. Fascinating!

It is so elevating to hear such an interview. How he can make the very difficult very understandable. I think it may be the best I have ever seen. Thank you so much

This interview is amazing. I just discovered the Broglie-Bohm theory, mind blowing.

thank you for this upload! priceless.

I just love Dr. David Bohm ideas and wisdom . Thanks for sharing such a brilliant video.

Thank you so much for posting this! :)

Wow! What a wonderful interview. The interviewer was great and David Bohm was able to really express his ideas accordingly. Thanks for sharing!

What an amazing physicist and man! I need to read his books!

even if you dont buy into his stuff about implicate explicate order, which i think is truly fascinating, he developed de Broglies Pilot wave interpretation of quantum mechanics (now called de broglie/bohm pilot wave), which gets rid of treating the universe like some statistical simulation and puts reality back on its pedestal even if one requires some non-local unfolding. that is to say, his physics is still closer to reality than much of how quantum mechanics is taught today (Copenhagen interpretation). Even though Einstein didnt fully buy into this theory (he thought it was too simple, where ironically his own theories were simple and elegant), he thought the statistical view was absolutely absurd: "god does not play dice".

Thanks for the upload!

Brilliant... thank you david

thanks for sharing. amazing. thank you!!

Also read the book "Unfolding Meaning" it is marvelous - has some of the aspects he is talking here Bohm the Best - Wish he is still around

Brilliant! Some excellent comments below as well. I truly believe "we" can essentially conquer this thing (ego). Peace !

@elenol1310

3 жыл бұрын

Ego doesnt exist so what are you transcending ,sir?

@elenol1310

3 жыл бұрын

Seeing through it is enough

Great interview. Thanks for posting.

David Bohm is an amazing man.

Beautiful , inspiring, and brilliant ❤️👍

Superb!! Thanks for sharing +++

Genius.. Thanks for making available this video.. Simply brilliant. 🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏

The last twenty minutes of this interview, straight to the root!

thank you for uploading

Most Excellent Talk ...Thank you

I did not realize there was actual videos of Dr.Bo , how lucky are we that actually we get to see his interviews. This is amazing and just made my day !

*Wholeness and the Implicate Order*, if you haven't read it, you're missing out.

@rajeevgangal542

5 жыл бұрын

Paddy Theosophist I came I saw I failed to comprehend his book!

@clementlanoe-chaumet9002

5 жыл бұрын

Absolutely :)

@gantech

4 жыл бұрын

Paddy Theosophist reading it. So heavy

@gantech

4 жыл бұрын

I am reading it so heavy

@elenol1310

3 жыл бұрын

YES

He was a beacon of pure intelligence among a scientist community mired in dogma and corruption. We could enable this reality to flow in a more benign direction if we took on board just a fraction of what he could see.

@schmetterling4477

2 жыл бұрын

Well, he is being asked about physics here and he was, at least, 50-odd years behind the times. That's inexcusable for a physicist living in the late 20th century.

Thank you so much!

it's so soothing listening to Bohm

Grat man. So truthfull so simple.

l love science and quantum mechanics and physics are such enlightening and mystifying fields. I am always amazed and learning contently. Great interview. Great scientist and philosopher.

Very enlightening interview, indeed -- even from 38+ years remove.

“The Best Interview” because Canadian National Treasure David Suzuki was one of the best interviewers/science journalist/environmental advocates on the planet. The very fact that he chose to interview Bohm in 1979 is testament to that. It was during the “shut up and do the math” dark age of physics and Bohm and his ideas were widely viewed as heretical within mainstream physics.

What a beautiful Mind, just the thought that someone can come up with these theories. Had to pause several times just to ponder on how fascinating the universe is

Thank you for the confirmation Mister Bohm. Truth in One Whole Moment. x

This is so much insightfull, now I understand Krishnamurti! thanks

Great! Thank you.

What a powerful interview

WOW! Thank you very much

Awesome thanks!

Great post, thank you

Without creating a Beyond, dissolve the ground you stand on, and fall, for it's your fall that catches the flight, not the illusion of wings we spend vainly our whole life in designing and fashioning. The force that keeps the earth and moons and stars and galaxies afloat, can (and will) support us earthlings, too.

@edenatwar6256

4 жыл бұрын

Salujathustra that’s beautiful... and the knowledge is free and attainable for every human being.. therefore.. they’ll never believe it.. ✌🏻

@kumu2613

3 жыл бұрын

Salujathustra Lovely thought....pretty deep, yet simple.

They made a very nice contribution to the combination of matter and meaning. david boom matte physicist of philosophy, krisna is the master of the introspection of meaning. These two everest meet in one place.

Magnificent and clarifying

I love this interview; thanks for posting. I think Bohm's view of wholeness and implicate order (as far as I understand it) has much to commend it. And I think he is right on point in saying that the problems we see among humans are rooted in something that goes beyond individual circumstances (such as poverty) and even individual psyches. I would raise one caveat, though. If I understand him correctly, he's suggesting that what we perceive as "individual" particles and objects are abstractions that unfold from a wholeness; and similarly, what we think of as our individual psyches are also abstractions from a wholeness (presumably the very same wholeness). Up to that point, I think I agree. But he seems to say that since my individual "ego" is an abstraction, it's therefore fundamentally an illusion. Certainly he says that my individual anger, in many instances, is "nonsense," and that realizing this will help me think more clearly about the world. My quibble is that an individual ego's (or particle's!) being an *abstraction* doesn't therefore make it an *illusion*, or make it "not real." An individual's anger *may* be nonsense (and I would venture to say that it usually is!), but it's not *necessarily*. That's a logical leap that's not accounted for here. Which becomes clearer, I think, if we apply it to something besides anger--say, Bohm's own thoughts that he expresses here. If Bohm's individual mind which is expressing these thoughts is an abstract illusion with no fundamental reality, then not only his anger but also *all* his thoughts are, fundamentally, "nonsense." The only reality is the whole. But then why listen to individual thoughts? Why not go on unfolding in whatever way the whole would have you unfold? Why ask why at all? In the end, I think what Bohm's view needs in order to supplement it is an Observer to observe not only the whole order, but also all of the individuals unfolding from it--thus granting a fundamental reality to those individuals as well as to the whole. But that, of course, takes us into Theism.

12:17 "... all these things that seem to exist independently are merely manifestations of something much deeper..."

@danielpassmore5026

7 жыл бұрын

Manu Forster I like to think of it like each of us are a TV channel. All showing different channels, but all those channels from that same satellite beam.

@gantech

4 жыл бұрын

Buddhist

@brendawilliams8062

2 сағат бұрын

Until you throw all into the number pile and song and dance how to read a number

@megavide0

2 сағат бұрын

@@danielpassmore5026 You mean our mind may be compared to a TV tuner, with each of us receiving a somewhat different program from the same source of information? I thought about that too. Another perspective would be to regard our mind as a vessel that navigates a mesh of possibilities and selects and focuses on certain aspects of reality that become actualized for us.

What a great interviewer

This guy did understudd there's only one field and pressures in that field , like waves on the ocean.Genious!

That was incredibly mind blowing.

Universal values as a common value of a human

thank you

Thank you @DavidSuzuki for sharing this video: the best interview indeed. Cheers! Dave&Sarah always visited us at Brockwood Park. Thank you, too Reza.

@RezaGanjavi

3 жыл бұрын

Thanks Paulus. Please send me an email (reza - at - rezamusic - dot - com). Thanks

Description should mention that the interview is conducted by the great Canadian David Suzuki, geneticist, science journalist and environmental activist.

@RezaGanjavi

4 жыл бұрын

Thanks. Will do.

Thanks.

I just bought his book: The undivided universe. Can't wait to delve into it.

thanks

He was absolutely crucial in giving clarity and scientific definition to Krishnamurti's perceptions for those who think there's an impenetrable border between the world of religion and science, an illusory schism that came about because of the scar caused by the tyranny of organized religion on man's psyche, organized religion isn't religion, it's a structure built by thought to bring the immeasurable and that which is beyond the perception of thought into its' limited sphere, science would do well to realize it is making the same mistake and the tyranny in its' case is its' arrogance in believing it can gradually understand everything but its' the same instrument of thought which sees only through limited structure and as soon as the structure is affirmed as knowledge it disintegrates as the perception of it in relation to the whole can never be known as thought isn't the whole. Thought finding its' right place within the whole is true religion and that's something Bohm understood in his dialogues with K otherwise thought is a dangerous renegade capable of destroying that which is within its' field and ultimately having contempt for it once it discovers the boundaries of its' limitation in form and the limitless it seeks is not to be understood through limited form whether in the physical world or the mind.

@garypuckettmuse

7 жыл бұрын

Dear Bogus, I admit I have not explored the questions I am about to ask you so they are not asked in a challenging way but just laziness in looking for a finger to point at the moon in a way because your remark that "he was absolutely crucial in giving clarity and scientific definition to K's perceptions" appears popularly to be widely agreed to and very significant. If I may: Why would Krishnamurti need scientific context or approval? Was that just some sort of quid pro quo between the scientist and the World Teacher which both agreed would boost their individual public statures? Did it elevate the "celebrity" of both that they went around as a two-man show instead of a one-man show? Was it significant in that it helped a wider audience access K's teachings? (some who may be afraid of anything that is not strictly "material" in nature may be able to tolerate K's abstractions if they were dressed up as material and measurable, for example)? I've only seen some of these exchanges between the two men (K and Bohm) but for my "bogus money" Bohm always seems like an idiot when he tries to continuously reword everything Krishnamurti says and hammer a bunch of round pegs into square holes.. He's a terrible mirror or reflector of K and does nothing but muddy the waters. Bohm seems completely lost and confused when he interacts with K. It's almost painful to watch; he looks like a masochist in search of a dominatrix and K. will not take the bait. In fact, oddly, K seems very subdued in these exchanges as though he doesn't want to completely crush Bohm -- the usual K.-fire seems damped way down. Krishnamurti is quite capable of shaking the shoulders of a whole auditorium of people and crying "snap out of it!" yet with Bohm he's more like an adult humoring a little child; gently humoring him and quietly thinking to himself "this is the personification of the hapless bloke I'm trying to wake up." I actually incidentally read somewhere that Bohm told people that Krishnamurti's condescension or low estimation of him was driving him to distraction and depression and he states this explicitly. Wow, sorry to be so wordy. I would love to hear what you understand about all this. Namaste CCK

@kenmills30

7 жыл бұрын

cck The two biggest influences of the last two millennia have been religion and science which in reality aren't separate abstract realities but because first religion was turned into idiocy by church's and priests and systematic hierarchy, science which is essentially intelligence in operation in its' true meaning became a simply materialistic activity because the word religion and anything associated with it had been dragged through the mud, the schism developed between materialism of 'science' and the absurd infantile farce of organized dogmatic religion which had all intelligence and enquiry drained out of it by fools in cassocks who reduced mass consciousness to mush. That's why I think these dialogues between K and Bohm are monumental historic events because K who though many look at him in a traditional spiritual teacher role, he was more than that, there was nothing flowery, wishy washy or reverential to religious tradition in him which is what most people think so-called spiritual matters are, something to make them feel all warm and secure away from reality. K was an arch-realist, a terrorist of any mind looking for false comfort and escape from their reality, a true religious man. Bohm obviously didn't have the depth of perception of K but to my mind in those dialogues he had a remarkable ability to meet K halfway and give a genuine almost technical clarity to K's depth of understanding. You say Bohm interacted badly with K, I think he realized he was in the company of an extraordinary human being and probably was quite humbled and awed to be in a dialogue with such a mind. For someone like Bohm, a real scientist trying to understand reality not come to conclusions about it, speaking to a mind that seemed to be in touch with the universal totality beyond the material perception that science has limited itself to must have in some ways made him feel quite small but at least he had the integrity to attempt to bridge the barrier between real science and real religion as there is no barrier, just a fake one created by silly small-minded arrogant men.

@garypuckettmuse

7 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the response. My original question to you seems to have been removed. Sorry if it was offensive to anyone. Maybe Bohm is just outdated now and I am not putting him in his proper context but he says nothing of interest to me other than "scientific establishment is totally fraudulent" which we all know. K. says "spiritual industrial complex is totally fraudulent" which we all know. The thing that is wonderful about K is listening to him expounding on his own ideas, taking in his own enthusiasm and passion and wisdom. Krishnamurti had a rare gift of being able to show the way in such clear and concise imagery and language that one would have to try resisting him or just be swept along. The man was a total genius. Bohm's severely reductionist little teaspoon of Krishnamurti which would slide down anyone's throat seems to me like a slap; in the face to Krishnamurti's whole notion of the depth of inquiry required or the fathomlessness of the revelations to be found. Still don't get why Krishamurti would drag this clown around with him -- obviously K felt it would help him reach more people and, given the Bohm worship I am seeing, that was probably true. I would love to have seen someone a little bit more challenging or probing have dialogues with Krishnamurti. Don't be too bitter about religion -- a lot of people love it and, yes, it is everything you say it is but it must be remembered that the second to last thing most human beings want is freedom and the very last is insight into themselves. We who are open to such revolutionary ideas are a small slice of humanity. I wouldn't be superior about it, we may well be the idiots and not know it. That's the fun of the whole thing, huh? Namaste.

@kenmills30

7 жыл бұрын

cck Don't know what your problem with Bohm is. Maybe those people conditioned to think in the traditional mode of materialistic science value Bohm more than K because science as we know it like traditional religion has thought as the arbiter and only god, it dictates the terms of any enquiry and what it discovers will always be perceived within its' limited scope. Whatever you say about Bohm, I'd rather hear a dialogue between an intelligent religious mind like K and an intelligent scientific mind like Bohm forgetting spiritual matters or scientific matters and looking at their dialogue like some kind of duel at noon like you seem to be, for me the most significant thing was they were meeting in the middle though I think K was being a bit crafty drawing Bohm into deep waters from which Bohm had no choice to realize being a scientist was of no more value than being a priest. Behind his respectable polite manner, K was a ruthless uncompromising operator. I'm not bitter about religion if by religion you mean those institutional psychological concentration camps that have reduced humanity to idiocy and confusion, they're no more spiritual than science is intelligent because thought is their master and any discovery or perception of both these systems is reduced to the petty dictats and limits of thought as we can see if we're observant.

@garypuckettmuse

7 жыл бұрын

Humanity IS idiocy and confusion you can blame religion or shopping or porn or genetics. The world will not be an evolved, enlightened place without religion. Many countries have tried that and the people remained stupid and clung to a substitute for religion -- the state. I do not partake of organized religion myself but when I compare it to a lot of other hobbies like watching football or joining a gang it looks pretty tame. If you are expecting masses of humanity to transform themselves because they don't march to church on Sunday, I don't think so. I don't think there is any one "enemy" of the people we can point to, go to war with, eliminate and have a better world. K railed against religion excessively but he had the unusual personal experience of being groomed from childhood to be Jesus, for heaven's sake! So he was only human and had his own terrors. No need for me to get as hysterical about religion as he was. That's just more mind control. Ruthless is a pretty aggressive word. I think K was not ruthless which means going after whatever you want by whatever means. I think he had integrity and decades of deep inquiry into what it means to tell others things as an authority: one must be very sure, very clear and very immovable in the information they impart. That is how the listener can remain calm and not feel imposed upon. Anyway you've got your demons to rail against and I leave you to them. I have watched other Bohm videos since then and remain totally unimpressed. I would day he is autistic and therefore didn't realize he was supposed to toe the line and spoke truth to power in the scientific realm. He should have just gone and listened to K instead of turning himself into a mouthpiece for K since he was definitely not up to the task. I wag a finger at K for being sucked into the celebrity vortex that Bohm created for him. However we are all human and burdened with our own strengths and weaknesses. Me especially. Namaste.

absolutely great)))

This is gold right here