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@pattonramming1988

Жыл бұрын

What's the title of the outro theme? Also cane we have more history of the Noldor

@eneasihopoi9786

Жыл бұрын

Have you done a video on arathorn, father of Aragorn?

@mediaman271

Жыл бұрын

@@pattonramming1988 Roaming the Fields by Kyle Preston

Whoever decided to give the Balrog in Fellowship of the Ring a roar like a crackling flame instead of a more traditional roar definitely deserves a raise. Still gives me goosebumps whenever I hear it

@JohnyAngelo

Жыл бұрын

It was depicted very well indeed in the trilogy. Original and yet true to the book. And Gandalf saying "This foe is beyond any of you." with Legolas looking scared knowing far too well, what balrog is, is one of my favorite scenees/quotes from the trilogy.

@roddo1955

Жыл бұрын

You can just 'hear' the heat.

@rogueascendant6611

Жыл бұрын

Like a burning furnace

@Mechadondada

Жыл бұрын

I seem to remember the foley artists dragged cinderblocks on concrete to create that sound. It’s brilliant.

@Xrskppn

Жыл бұрын

@@Mechadondada boom yes that’s it. Cinderblocks never sounded so cool 🎉

Their master is beaten, but do the Balrogs give up? Oh no! They patiently wait 4000 years until they hear from him again and what is the first they hear? A cry for help, because Morgoth got into a bit of trouble with a giant spider. So they rush to rescue him. Gotta give it to the Balrogs: they are loyal, patient, and always ready to help their friends. Not bad character traits.

@randomshittutorials

Жыл бұрын

If they were free I would commend them. I'd say they are rather consumed by darkness.

@Blessed_V0id

11 ай бұрын

​@@randomshittutorialsThey were free. By their own choice they choose to serve Melkor. It is this very statement that is the hypocrisy of Alluvitar. You are free to serve me, in how I want, in a cruel and uncaring world. Let Lord Morgoth burn it all away, Sauron never understood his philosophy

@lachlanparker570

10 ай бұрын

Ironically more virtuous than Elrond (at least in the live-action movies), who was a heartless prick at times.

@universalflamethrower6342

8 ай бұрын

@@Blessed_V0id that is not Hypocrisy at all, there is no life without Eru, because he is the source and without the source you will eventually die. A tree without roots will die. So creatures are free to choose to acknowledge this reality or not. When Creatures like Maiar choose to not serve Eru they choose Death and are irredeemable because they have perfect knowledge of the consequences. However creatures with bodies do not fall into this category, they do not have perfect knowledge and can repent of their actions precisely because they have mortal bodies who have limited existence. For us it is never too late to repent, we can even repent and be baptized on our deathbeds.

@feliciaf8

8 ай бұрын

@@Blessed_V0id what hypocrisy, and u can't even wrote his name right

Ecthelion's slaying of Gothmog with the spike of his helmet has to be one of the most epic things Tolkien ever wrote.

@emoishguy08

Жыл бұрын

Killing Gothmog in general is epic as f-k. He had quite the roster of First Age High Elves on his kill count.

@benjaminallen3371

Жыл бұрын

Maybe in a television adaptation of the Fall of Gondolin, Turgon could kill Gothmog instead of seeking refuge in a tower.

@jessemillan1385

Жыл бұрын

I wonder if the Balrog that gandalf fought is Gothmog reincarnated.

@ujjwalkaushik4664

Жыл бұрын

@@jessemillan1385 no

@ecthelionofthefountain8267

Жыл бұрын

Thank you!

Fëanor really got on such a gamer roll of taking players down that he didn’t notice he was approaching an enemy spawn zone.

@tommythetrain4288

2 ай бұрын

Right! Just kept going!!

It's interesting to consider Orc culture seeing the Balrogs as ancient heroes who defeated their ancient foes at Gondolin, and naming their babies after them.

@joshuastrittmatter4188

2 ай бұрын

I never even thought of that before! That’s an amazing observation for why that one orc was named Gothmog.

Gothmog just reeks of badassery. When he was a snarky teenager he was known as Emog.

@jmpsthrufyre

5 ай бұрын

He was probably a goth/emo

@adrianalvarez8163

2 ай бұрын

Lol

It's important to remember that Sauron and the balrogs were kin (fallen Maiar), and thus it's easy to imagine a rivalry of sorts between Sauron and Gothmog, as well as peer respect and loyalty. The death of Gothmog paved the way for Sauron's rise. The true homology of "Melkor and the balrogs" would be "Sauron and the Nazgûl". Sauron was not powerful enough to corrupt his peers, but could corrupt humans.

@danielhamilton351

Жыл бұрын

Only Sauron did corrupt his peer in Saruman.

@uwesca6263

Жыл бұрын

​@@danielhamilton351 but saruman was not at the height of his power. And both of them served aule. Maybe they had some sort of history together before sauran swore alliance morgoth

@danielhamilton351

Жыл бұрын

@@uwesca6263 it doesn't matter. The OP said Sauron didn't have the power to corrupt his own kind. I just refuted that with a clear example of Sauron corrupting his own kind.

@jeremywilliams5107

Жыл бұрын

Melkor/balrogs Sauron/Nazgul is a nice analogue I hadn't considered. Thanks... Now as to Sauron not being able to corrupt his peers, FWIW I think he could have. Tolkien refers to Arda as being almost 'Morgoths Ring', as though his power had been transferred into Middle Earth. My opinion: Sauron was able to use this, possibly because he was the only one who understood the principle. The balrogs and dragons were fairly solitary creatures after the overthrow of Morgoth, not seeking rule, possibly because they were in some way subject to and directed by the will of Melkor and were a bit lost as to what to do afterwards. But not Sauron; and therefore other fallen Maiar would have been susceptible to his will.

@istari0

Жыл бұрын

Sauron may not have been a Vala but he was extraordinarily powerful and was Melkor/Morgoth's lieutenant long before the Fall of Gondolin and just like all creatures, Maia are individuals with varying levels of abilities. It's just that prior to Morgoth's defeat in the War of Wrath, he was the one who had corrupted assorted Maia to his service and afterwards there were no uncorrupted Maia in Middle-Earth until the Istari arrived.

I enjoyed the early concept of Gothmog as Morgoth's son, but on balance I'm glad Tolkien changed that.

@7yep4336dfgvvh

Жыл бұрын

Why

@adpirtle

Жыл бұрын

@@7yep4336dfgvvh For the same reason I am glad Eönwë didn't end up being Manwë's son. It makes the Valar feel too earthly.

@7yep4336dfgvvh

Жыл бұрын

@David Pirtle kind of. But you do have nephilims in the Bible though and even Jesus was given birth to the old fashioned way

@SamVagyok

11 ай бұрын

@@7yep4336dfgvvh he was born in the human sense but was immaculately conceived. He is not to be confused with Nephilim, who are products of demons and human women.

Considering that the wizards, Sauron, and the Balrogs are all Maiar, I'd be very interested in an explanation of the diversity of Maiar appearances and traits in Middle Earth.

@ZENmud

Жыл бұрын

The Balrogs seem to have mutated, towards an outer "skin" more nearly asbestos than human flesh...

@LordMortanius

Жыл бұрын

The Balrogs became permanently incarnate in their current forms. The Istari were Maiar bound to a single human form. Sauron retained his innate power and was only crippled in that he could not assume a fair, deceptive form after Numenor. It's why Balrogs and the Istari could permanently die, while Sauron's defeat required the destruction of all his power and his fortress falling on him - his spirit is then permanently dispersed and reduced to a minor spirit of malice.

@danielhamilton351

Жыл бұрын

@@LordMortanius the Maiar do not permanently die. They are immortal spirits. That's the nature of being immortal. As a matter of fact, no created being by Eru permanently dies. The physical body dies but not the spirit.

@LordMortanius

Жыл бұрын

@@danielhamilton351 The Balrogs are perma-dead. Even Morgoth was executed and hurled into the void. Sure, Sauron exists as a minor, ourobouros-like diminished spirit, but he's effectively gone for good. The balrogs don't even have the comfort of having their spirits mentioned. If you subscribe to Draugluin and Thuringwethil being Maiar, they too are dead and haven't been mentioned since. For all intents and purposes, they're dead.

@davidlundquist1979

Жыл бұрын

@@LordMortanius You're taking things that were merely implied and treating them as hard and fast rules. From what I can see, Tolkien was not big on strict rules for anything. The powers his various godlike beings had, and the exact nature of their existence, were always in service to the narrative, not vice versa.

The "Melkor VS Manwë" art at 1:32 is awesome.

@NerdoftheRings

Жыл бұрын

It's indeed EPIC!

@Shaynerification

Жыл бұрын

Does that art piece take place during the First War in Arda?

@user-yn6eu7xc5i

23 күн бұрын

Very nice looking art in itself, but this is a very interesting Tolkien myth question I've always wondered about and seen so many different versions of floating around and depicted... I've never gotten the impression that the Valar had that Aladdin's-giant-genies, Christianity-based-imagery type of classic God-in-the-clouds forms such as that artwork depicts, and though they could definitely take different forms, shrink and expand in size and many other powerful transformations, all in all the most probable faithful rendition style that remains the most consistently fitting with the many epochs and ages worth of events in the literature, is depicting them as enormous humanoids clad in great physical armors and clothes befitting demi-Gods (albeit exquisitely and magically created/imbued, far above what elves or men could craft), and obviously with incredible powers of numerous kinds allowed to them, which seems to be their Tolkien-intended rendition and form as he originally meant, by all accounts. This was also the visual impression I first got when I read the Silmarillion, Hobbit and LotR books in the late 90's even before the first movies came out, and then only afterward saw the Jackson production's depicted versions. Such impressively large (relative to men and elves) but still more terrestrial-scale physicalized forms overall are far more congruent to reconcile with the lore and events, and also with the "physics" of Arda as how beings tend to manifest, even when the Valar/Maiar were battling other fallen Valar/Maiar directly in some of the great God-on-God wars of the earlier ages. This more "large humanoid" consistency also holds up quite regularly throughout the ages in the direct interactions between any of the Ainur and elves/men, who on many an occasion could actually go toe-to-toe and even win or often wound the fallen Ainur, something that would be impossible if they were or even could easily switch to some kind of giant-floaty-genie God-like form.

Still love the imagery of his battle over the fountain in Gondolin with Ecthelion! It is seriously one of the paragraphs that made me fall in love with Tolkien’s legendarium beyond the movies back in the early 2000s

There is something really nice about the fact that killing a Balrog always come with a great sacrifice (life) and also linked to a great fall in the abyss and/or fountain (fallen maia are killed by a great fall). Well, one does not simply kill a balrog. Great video as always!👍👍👍👍

@johndododoe1411

7 ай бұрын

Same for killing other Maiar . Sauron's death came with the fall of both Gollum and Mt. Doom, who killed him together . Saruman's death came with the death of Grima (his killer) .

Can we take a short moment to agree how creepy and unlike the books the Balrog in the 1978 version is. 😂

@loonowolf2160

Жыл бұрын

Indeed, the unscary balrog that would make you yawn and get bored and stay like this🗿 from someone that is not scary at all

@OscyJack-

Жыл бұрын

​@@loonowolf2160 by that standard, gandalf, saruman, all of the races of man and elf would be considered non-scary. So, I have to disagree :).

@loonowolf2160

Жыл бұрын

@Oscyjack well that wuite interesting and gonna agree with you mate, and yes your saying the truth has for me I never watched this thing of 50 years ago, I'm a 2001 boy sl tf I know of this other trash show, that there is narrator that talk on third person has well... is stupid

@Darkstar_Dayne

Жыл бұрын

​@@OscyJack- But Balrogs are supposed to be scary regardless of their original forms

@OscyJack-

Жыл бұрын

@@Darkstar_Dayne that's my point. In any form, they are scary. Just like melian, gandalf, saruman, etc. All are scary by definition, or, in the case of the elves, fell. Even the beautiful anatar was scary. Looks don't infer the scariness or power of a being in Tolkien's world, in other words.

Gotta love the old "Lost Tales" version of the Fall of Gondolin, for having more detail about Ecthelion and the Balrog, as much as it doesn't really fit in with the later conception of the legendarium.

One of the coolest characters in fantasy. A lot of people usually think of Durin's Bane, but Gothmog is the most powerful of the Balrogs. Gothmog was even considered very close to Sauron in terms of ranking in Morgoth's army.

How amazing JRRT really was....to create not only the trilogy of all trilogies, but to have so much amazing backstory and characters bloody hell leaves you starving for more!!!

Thank you for supporting artists!

All this art is just INCREDIBLE! Just looking at all of it and listening gives me goosebumps.

Thank you for this amazing video on Gothmog, servant of Morgoth. Not many videos exist on this subject. Interesting!👍

Thanks for this ! The balrogs always fascinated me when I first read the silmarillion when I was young. I was really happy to see The fall of Gondolin released as a full book so many years later. I’d love to see that as a movie

@1:52, Waiting 4000 years for the Boss to show up. Yeah, I've been in meetings like that!

Noldor king kill count: Morgoth 2(finwe and fingolfin) Gothmog 2 (Fingon Feanor) Sauron 1 (gilgalad) Touer 1 (tugon)

Great vid as always, Matt. I always appreciate the diversity in artwork you choose to use! ♥

It's a little-known fact the Gothmog is actually the one who suggested Morgoth give the balrogs wings, but Morgoth thought that was a stupid idea, and refused.

@Sephiroth144

Жыл бұрын

Gothmog: Man, if we had wings, we'd be so awesome! And we could ruckus those Eagles, go out everywhere, it'd be great! Melkor: ... nah. Gothmog: Dick.

@FenrirRagnulf

Жыл бұрын

​@@Sephiroth144 you explained that like a 12 year old girl looking for likes.

@istari0

Жыл бұрын

@@Sephiroth144 Actually, the version I heard has Melkor saying "I'm saving those for the Dragons" to which Gothmog replies "The what?"

@animeyukiomalayalam6882

Жыл бұрын

@@istari0 All of these versions are so funny 😂😂

@sr71silver

Жыл бұрын

You know something I've always found odd is the insistence that Balrogs don't have wings when Tolkien explicitly states in Fellowship that they do. Immediately following Gandalf's "You cannot pass" speech. "The Balrog made no answer. The fire in it seemed to die, but the darkness grew. It stepped forward slowly on to the bridge, and suddenly it drew itself up to a great height, and ITS WINGS were spread from wall to wall;" Now I suppose that could have simply been the "shadow about it" if you really want to stretch it. But it seems pretty unambiguous to me. I just don't understand how people can be so adamant about the Balrogs being wingless when the text on the page directly contradicts that view. Plus they're all Maiar, and thus shapeshifters.

Goodness... The arwork showcased in this episode is incredile. Thank you for sharing. I'll make sure to follow these incredible artists

Mna, as ever this presentation was fascinating and the visual pairing is spot -on. Thank you!!

love Tolkien. and you did a great job narrating this. thank you! the Elves who fought these demons must have been the bravest middle earth ever saw

A Video about @AdmiralBulldog Pog

Always good when NotR uploads

I actually liked LOTRO's theory that Third Age Gothmog was actually Earnur after he was tortured in the Black Land, following him answering the Witch King's taunt. The story in The Black Book of Mordor quest line is very beautifully written.

Great presentation as always, Matt.

One of the best scenes in filmography: YOU! SHALL NOT! PASS! Every time I see that scene I am sooooooo out of this world.

@devildante9

Жыл бұрын

It's such a shame that they made Gandalf shout his speech instead of chanting it, it makes it almost impossible to hear clearly if you don't have subtitles enabled. It's the most awesome part of that scene, if you are paying attention at Gandalf's words.

Great historical accounting of Gothmog. Loved it.

Brilliant video. We always appreciate your hard work and dedication towards these videos. Love from Sri Lankan fan of you.

These videos are so helpful as I’m reading through the Simarillion for the first time. Thanks.

Also please do make another video on the powers of Balrogs, they’re evil, but so awesome!

@dragonchr15

Жыл бұрын

Is there any more to be added??

@michaelwhitney8326

Жыл бұрын

@@dragonchr15 I was thinking specifics on things like whether or not, they can teleport through fire and shadow like they did in the Peter Jackson interpretation, whether or not they can fly, whether or not they can breathe fire, things like that.

@oguzhanenescetin5702

Жыл бұрын

@@michaelwhitney8326 Even without wings every single Maia has the power of flight. They can teleport before being stuck in bodies which is interesting as we dont know a timeline where they werent corrupted/stuck They cant breath fire but they can throw fire bolts. I remember reading it in the Fall of Gondolin

This video is awesome!!! Do you already have in depth videos of the fall of Gondolin? If not, they should be high on your list! 🤘🤓

Great video, man. Congratulations!

Lord of the Rings Online had an interesting interpretation of Gothmog from the third age. When Eanur rode to Minas Morgul to challenge the Witch King and disappeared, he was captured and twisted into becoming Mordirith, the Steward of Angmar. After you defeat him, he's later given a second chance by the Witch King and brought back as Gothmog.

Great video and always enjoy hearing videos like this

I really enjoy getting to know Middleearth thtough your videos. Can you sometimes make a ranking/powerchart?

A video about the powers of the Maiar would be really nice! It's still slightly unclear to me what they're able to do and their levels (like gray/white wizards).

@LordMortanius

Жыл бұрын

There are no 'levels'. There seems to be a division of power, with greater spirits like Sauron, Eonwe and Ilmare on one side and lesser spirits like the balrogs and the Istari on the other.

Amazing!!! Nice Video matt!

I love your voice. Very hypnotizing narration

❤❤❤️‍🔥 It's been a while but I hope you all have a wonderful Easter!

Thank you so much for these awesome videos, love from Italy!

Awesome work!

Yes! Video about powers of the Maiar please!

Great video could you do a history of angband next pls

Great stuff as always.

A video about the power of the maiar and Valar would be amazing, I must say.

Even as mighty as they were though, notice it took a sneak attack from behind for the balrogs to conquer Fingon.

@rebekaheubanks7452

9 ай бұрын

Remember that Fingon is firstborn of Fingolfin--when he attacked Angband, the enemy thought he was a Valar!! THAT'S powerful!!

@pendragon2012

9 ай бұрын

@@rebekaheubanks7452 True badass!

Consistent great quality videos!!!

Could you a video or videos on the languages of the legendarium? I've not seen anyone go really in depth on them.

More on Nameless Things !

@NerdoftheRings

Жыл бұрын

You'll enjoy this vid on that very topic! kzread.info/dash/bejne/pI6ft86vYbm8nrQ.html

Your videos are always very educational, thanks for another good video 👍

It was always my understanding that the music gave a vision of what would be arda. Sort of like drawing the blueprints. And later they actually started building.

great vid man

Can we have a tier list of the villain power levels? Like gothmog, glaurung, saruman, sauron, ungoliant, melkor etc.

Very informative buddy!

Well that was just fine Nerd. I have always thought the Balrogs rather under represented considering their shear might in Tolkien's tales. Good one sir. Please do more about them.

Yeahhhhh.... after listening to this exquisite 13 minutes of old tales from the lost books of Tolkien.... You guys are my kind of "Nerds" "Subbed and Liked" 👍

Cool video man!

Cool to see that Celebrimbor supports your work

Gothmog vs Smaug would’ve certainly been interesting 🤔

@datadeleted3245

Жыл бұрын

vs Ancalagon would be better. Smaug was a threat only on the scale of the Third Age, when Balrogs, especially their leader is much closer in terms of power to most powerful dragons of the first age, such as Glaurung or Ancalagon

@highdrocz1234

Жыл бұрын

@@datadeleted3245 no Gothmog would've fall against Glaurung or Ancalogon not even comparable

@datadeleted3245

Жыл бұрын

@@highdrocz1234 Glaurung was killed by human Turin, Gothmog killed two high elven kings, and high elven king could injure a Valar, like Figolfin did to Morgoth.

@jongordon6892

Ай бұрын

Gothmog VS Merry and Pippin with an anti tank rifle.

Your video is really good nerd of the rings I just subscribed to your channel right now

Nice work dude

@ianheins650

Жыл бұрын

That's awesome

almost at 1mil subs keep up the great videos

Dang, I just discovered your channel a few months ago and have been watching all your vids almost daily. Usually I'm watching a months or years old vid. Just got this in my rec feed and didn't even realize you only posted it today!

@NerdoftheRings

Жыл бұрын

There’s a lot to make your way though here! And much more on the way! Thanks for watching!

The best Tolkien universe channel on youtube 👍

Amazing. As always.

Another great video!

Oh please make content on their powers!!! Please please please!!!

You got a wonderful voice for telling tales, with lots of emotion. Have you considered making your own stories to tell? 🙂 (I would listen to them)

More videos on Balrogs!!!

A great video once more . Would it be Amazing if You could a back ground story of King Theodens niece / Female relative Eowyn and her background story 😀

Of note the three named characters who killed balrogs also died during the battle/duel - Echelon, Glorfindel, and Gandalf. Two were sent back - Glorfindel and Gandalf - to finish their tasks.

Amazing video as always! what is the name of the background music you have in the beginning of the video, i have heard it in several videos before this one and it is truly epic

To follow historical events, it would help to convert all data's to the Shire calendar, with negative years from early TA back to years of the lamps or before .

Been waiting for this 1

The Third Age Gothmog can't be a lesser Maiar, because a Maiar will never be under the command of a Ringwright. If anything, the Witch-King will be under the command of that lesser Maiar. The second Gothmog is probably just an orc/human/nazgul that take the name to honor the Balrog just like they name Grond like Morgoth's hammer.

Man I was waiting to see this

Well done!

I always love seeing artists interpretations of the stories it always helps to immerse myself in the tales. Do you accept artwork submissions for your videos? I would love to submit some of my own work.

Another interesting video!What about "stone giants"which appear in The hobbit movie?

I’d love to get a new Trilogy of movies covering 1 or 2 of the first biggest battles of the elves vs Morgoth!! With as much of these Dragons & Balrogs as are in the books!! And definitely want to see Morgoth Vs the mother of spiders Ungoliant!! In live action would be amazing. Though if that will never happen then let us get it in a very adult animation style!! I’d love to also get some like this regarding the Game of Thrones books!! Telling there versions of the story!!

I really like these stories, I feel that I want to read all books once again

awesome. yea pls dp that balrog/maiar powers vid

Please make a video on tulkas... I have been requesting for quite a while now.

Wow, this was so interesting to listen to. I've always wondered about the back story of these shadowy figures. If they can go toe-to-toe with Gandalf they must be powerful.

@fluffyisyermom7631

Жыл бұрын

Its safe to say that if Gandalf fought gothmog, he probably wouldn't have won lol

@captainmorgan2307

Жыл бұрын

@@fluffyisyermom7631 He'd be a lot younger though.

About the second Gothmog, I heard a theory about him being one of the Nine Nazgûl... he was so depicted in the wargame War of the Rings in the 70s or early 80s

I hope the War of Rohirrim does so well that it inspire more independent LOTR independent movies such as the Fall of Gondolin or Children of Hurin! We could then get more exposure to these great 2nd villains who served under Morgoth from Glaurang the 1st dragon to Gothmog the lord of the Balrogs!

I like the idea that, just like Sauron and Saruman, the Balrogs were former maiar of Aule, whose servants (associated with fire and forging, thus destroying or enthralling nature) were more prone to listen to Morgoths promises.

@LordMortanius

Жыл бұрын

The balrogs were Melkor's original Maiar servants.

@victormeunier9075

Жыл бұрын

@@LordMortanius What then about Sauron?

@LordMortanius

Жыл бұрын

@@victormeunier9075 Aule.

I love seeing the parallels of morgoth and sauron in their leadership, and choosing of followers. Most would consider the witch king to be the equivalent of sauron in roles played before their masters, but I see him more like Gothmog. The ringwraiths play a role not dissimilar to the first balrogs and their service of Morgoth. The mouth of sauron better fits what sauron was to morgoth In many ways. Of course all of this is scaled down and the epic level of power of the first age is not conveyed the same (though I do feel sauron gets too much hate for being similar to Morgoth, if it works it works) the parallels of the witch king and the nazgul and Gothmog and the balrogs is at least unintentionally there

@LordMortanius

Жыл бұрын

I dunno; the Mouth is basically Sauron's chief of staff in the Dark Tower. The Nazgul, like Sauron to Melkor before them, were off conquering things and administrating other kingdoms in Sauron's name.

The Balrogs are terrifying!!! Can you imagine a Balrog waking up in Modern times?

@stunner9005

Жыл бұрын

We’d need a lot of water.

@racernatorde5318

Жыл бұрын

Considering all the stuff that happened in the past few years years it would just be a minor inconvinience

@TruthSika

Жыл бұрын

It would be like Pacific Rim, but worse. And better.

great video! what is the name of the song that starts at 13:12?

Awesome.piece ...thanks.. I am just not sure that Feanor has ever had the title of High King of the elves .. maybe you meant Noldor (in Beleriand) but even so I will be highly doubtful that Fingolfin would agree on this .. maybe it is moot point considering how chaotic everything was after the killing of Finwë, Kinslaying, leaving Valinor and Feanor's betrayal, forcing Fingolfin host to cross the Helcaraxë on foot ...

It would be so cool to see this in film.

A spinoff movie about gothmog would be awsome !!