I worked for a battery-based inverter manufacturer testing and working with these sodium ion batteries and the problem we had is they did not deliver current fast enough for large inductive loads in peoples homes such as air compressors, swimming pool pumps and air conditioning compressors. Under a large inductive load, the voltage would sag too deep and the inverter would drop out on low-voltage. Previous sodium battery manufacturers have gone bankrupt. But times change and technology improves so I hope they get better. Meanwhile we are sticking with lithium.

@PeekabooGram

7 ай бұрын

I know soft starters installed on each of those devices can eliminate voltage sag, but given the potential number of said devices in a modern home, my guess is that that added expense would quickly wipe out any cost benefits of sodium over lithium.

@TheMighty_T

7 ай бұрын

Tech has changed for sure. The Chinese are world leaders currently, but I'm sure we will catch up soon. If you run an EV on Sodium-Ion, you can run your household items.

@user-ke9yk5qp3u

7 ай бұрын

@@TheMighty_T while I'm connected to the grid, I rarely use it. My solar system meets 100% of my daily loads and I store that in a lithium ion battery bank. After two days of cloudy weather then I do have to engage the grid.

@tomlewitt

7 ай бұрын

If you put a decent capacitor in parallel with the batteries, would that help?

@user-ke9yk5qp3u

7 ай бұрын

@@tomlewitt well, we were working with some of the best electronics engineers in the United States in the development of the product so I kind of doubt that. Schneider Electric is no small company. Again, technology will improve but at the time sodium ion batteries were a flop.

Martyna, thanks for the video. Just wanted to let you know that a Chinese battery manufacturer, Dynavolt Tech is ALREADY selling Sodium Ion batteries in the marketplace. Not as competition to Lithium batteries, but as a competitor to Lead Acid Batteries for engine starting. They already have them for motorcycle starting batteries, and car starting batteries are in the works. As you said, the Sodium batteries have huge advantages over Lithium batteries, except energy density. But, compare the Sodium batteries to Lead Acid batteries, and the advantage is even bigger. Imagine no more Lead pollution, or sulfuric acid pollution... And, imagine a battery that you can leave on the shelf for over a year, and it will still start you car or motorcycle! And imagine a battery that will last 5 to 10 times longer than a lead acid battery... And works at much lower and higher temperatures... and is as light weight as Lithium, and all this for a cost a little more than Lead Acid Batteries... Well, all that exists, and is already on the market in Asia... And they should be available in the US before too long. I can't wait! :-)

@lillovelace

7 ай бұрын

This is true

@omeggga

7 ай бұрын

Can they last more charge cycles than lithium?

@TigreBrian

7 ай бұрын

@@omeggga From the research I've seen, Sodium batteries will have the ability to have more charge cycles. Plus, a huge benefit is that Sodium batteries can be discharged to Zero volts, and be recharged with no apparent damage. Another advantage is charging rate... Sodium batteries can accept higher charge rates then Lithium batteries, so they can be charged faster. Except for electronic devices, and EV's, Sodium batteries seem to answer a lot of challenges which limit Lithium batteries. Temperature extremes, safety, environmental, cost, weight, charge cycles, charge rate, manufacturing ease, long shelf life, safe transport at zero volts, and many other advantages are the reasons I believe Sodium batteries will take over many sectors of the energy storage and starter battery markets.

@omeggga

7 ай бұрын

@@TigreBrian Where can I find a source for this?

@hclau218

7 ай бұрын

​@@omegggaIf you read Chinese, there's plenty of sources and information. BYD has already built a factory for mass production of Sodium Batteries for EV.

Thanks for keeping us updated on the latest innovations in the solar industry, TBH this is the first time I’m hearing about sodium batteries. I really enjoy watching all your videos. So much information and right to the point. Keep em coming.

@solartimeusa

7 ай бұрын

Thank you so much for letting me know, it motivates me so much to keep making those videos for sure :)!!!

@user-tp5yb4hr4w

7 ай бұрын

They are both unstable chemicals that ignite violently in explosion and Flames, we shouldn't be using either of these chemicals for what we're using them for. The sad thing is as bad as hydrogen is, it would still be better than both of those two one of them actually creates hydrogen funny enough as a byproduct, that would be the sodium.

@asbjornhovsto5216

7 ай бұрын

Alibaba sells already Sodium batteries

Nov 2023 - I ordered in one 12v and one 24v 100Ah battery (each) and they are close to same form-factor size as Lithium-Iron-Phosphate batteries, and lower price point. The cells are more tolerante to temperatures (reportedly) operating down to -20C and up to +80C with some reduced current capacity at those extremes. The main draw-back for Sodium cells is their operating voltage is far wider than LFP (1.5v to 4.0v) which exceeds the limits for most inverters and other equipment that batteries will connect to, such that until the equipment changes and catches up to the new battery technology, operating the sodium batteries with current equipment may require reduced voltage operating range and thus reduced usable energy from the cells. Reduced voltage operational range will increase the battery longevity (cycles) but this remains a trade off. The temperature tolerance, safety, cost, and abundance of sodium are all positives, great reporting.

Sodium-ion is definitely preferable to Lithium-ion, but you have completely overlooked Lithium Iron Phosphate which is the current industry standard and can be cycled 100% and does not have the same risk of thermal runaway. Nevertheless, sodium will be far less detrimental environmentally than lithium.

@solartimeusa

7 ай бұрын

Agreed and I wish I could squeeze a ton more into the video… LFP is great and huge and used in majority of home back up options. The only one I’m willing to recommend. Thanks for the feedback I really appreciate it. Good and bad, that’s the only way for me to learn. ;)

@ferrytadema2424

7 ай бұрын

Old news nothing new and one of so manny.

@ilmarsmarsils8029

7 ай бұрын

If Sodium is very similar to Lithium so for me seams that it is possible to produce NaFePO batteries like existing LiFePO. And for me not clear why battery creation started from Lithium but not from Sodium or Potassium. Scientist could start from potassium batteries, collect money, then upgrade to Sodium, collect money and then to Lithium as most energy dense.

@Ryan-ff2db

7 ай бұрын

@@ilmarsmarsils8029 Lithium hit the market in consumer products like phones, laptops, power tools, etc.. where weight is an important factor. Lithium, especially back around the turn of the millennium was lighter and could deliver more energy than sodium. Potassium is even heavier.

@JusticeAlways

5 ай бұрын

​@@ferrytadema2424 Maybe for you....

Great new Sodium batteries Do not burst into flames Are not affected by cold or heat Charge in 1/4 the time So from 20 to 80% can be under 15 minutes

Thanks for the update.

@solartimeusa

7 ай бұрын

Youre welcome ! :)

One very radical idea? We could talk with our families and sleep at night. There is a thought.

Thanks for a good video!

@solartimeusa

7 ай бұрын

Glad you liked it! Thank you so much for leaving a comment!

I always learn from your videos. Thank you for making them. I didn't know about the progress being made with sodium batteries.

@solartimeusa

7 ай бұрын

Glad to help! And thank you so much for leaving a comment, those help so much too! :)!

I read about adding a supercapacitor parallel with the battery to provide the ,momentary boost for a motor start; it took a while to wrap my mind around the concept; the capacitor charges and discharges nearly instantly.

This is great to hear and hopefully they will continue with the development of this battery type and will be much more affordable for the average person..

@solartimeusa

7 ай бұрын

Exactly. I have had solar on my home for many years but still holding off on the battery part. :)

@johnnysager8899

7 ай бұрын

@@solartimeusa yeah 15k for a battery is ridiculous 🙄

New subscriber always watching your videos thank you for sharing ❤❤❤

@solartimeusa

7 ай бұрын

THANK YOU SO SO MUCH! I appreciate the support and leaving a comment too! :)

Nice informative video.

@solartimeusa

7 ай бұрын

Thank you so much for the kind comment, I appreciate it more than you know :)

Excellent video, first time hearing about Sodium iron, lots of exciting movement in the battery space.

@solartimeusa

7 ай бұрын

Agreed! Solar panels and inverters are as good as they get, dont see much improvement there, but storage... oh boy! Its so exciting! :)

I agree that Sodium Ion may be a game changer especially for the grid storage but the scarcity of Lithium is hugely overstated. The largest known reserve in the world was just discovered in Nevada, not Argentina. The richest deposits are in Maine and even California wants to tap the Salton Sea for lithium. New lithium reserves are being discovered pretty much every month from Canada to Australia to Iran and even at the bottom of some oceans. Exxon is even getting in the game mining in Arkansas. 2 years ago the known reserves were estimated to provide lithium for 2.8 billion EV's but those numbers keep growing. This assumes no recycling, which nowadays pretty much all EV batteries will be recycled. Companies like Redwood and a dozen others in the United States alone eagerly waiting for the coming batteries from old EV's. It also assumes no Sodium-Ion batteries and no newer batteries which use less lithium.

@callmebigpapa

7 ай бұрын

I agree 110% with everything you said.....but sodium being 30x cheaper is what will dictate the future. Even with the incredible recent finds Nevada etc......Sodium is a better tech.

@chesshooligan1282

7 ай бұрын

Lithium is only a small part of the cost of a lithium battery. At present, lithium batteries have more than double the gravimetric density of sodium batteries. If I'm going to spend 30,000 dollars on a car with sodium batteries, I'd rather spend 31,000 on one with lithium batteries. Energy storage for the home is totally different, though.

@Ryan-ff2db

7 ай бұрын

@@callmebigpapa Currently, Sodium Ion batteries are only about 33 percent cheaper. Although CATL has stated they expect once production ramps to be about 50 percent cheaper in a year or two. That's still pretty good but like the other guy said there's more to the cost of batteries than raw input materials. They are also heavier which isn't great for EV range. CATL expects Sodium ion to represent 18 percent of the EV market mostly in city cars and delivery vehicles where range isn't as important. On the grid and home storage however, sodium theoretically could dominate. It doesn't matter the least how heavy the batteries are if they're just sitting there. A $40 to $60 dollar price per kwh would cut storages costs considerably and they operate better in colder temperatures.

@Ryan-ff2db

7 ай бұрын

@@chesshooligan1282 Yes and one indirect benefit from sodium is it reduces the demand for Lithium. Grid products and home storage do not care what the weight or even volume metrics are. If CATL is right, and almost 20 percent of the EV market uses Sodium in vehicles where range isn't important. That means lithium demand would be considerably less which theoretically would reduce the cost of EV's whether they use lithium or sodium. Overall a win win.

@busetgadapet

7 ай бұрын

lol you dont know how the rich scare us to believe oil was gonna run out every year since 2000s? thats just their tactic to raise their price by invoking false fear lmao. otherwise how those rich pay for their yacth and thousands of their hookers?

Ecellent. Thank you!

@solartimeusa

7 ай бұрын

Thank you for watching and leaving a comment! :) I appreciate it so much!!!

Discussing sodium batteries with us now is a clear indication that you are definitely on top of your game. Thanks a lot for the video.

@solartimeusa

7 ай бұрын

Thank you so so so much for saying this and leaving a comment! Motivates me so much! :)

@victorhopper6774

7 ай бұрын

except ssb's with lithium will soon be replacing lithium ion batteries. less than half the weight with a better temp range. the game will change big time

@solartimeusa

7 ай бұрын

@@victorhopper6774 yes! Video coming out about solid state batteries next week. Huge for EVs

@scriptles

7 ай бұрын

Not really, this was talked about nearly a year ago and probably longer. Sounds more like someone sleeping on their game. 2 bit divinci and undecided with matt ferral already discussed this a while back.

@Ryan-ff2db

7 ай бұрын

@@scriptles There are now 30 sodium-ion plants under construction or in planning globally and this doesn't count the new announcement from Northvolt in Sweden. There are vehicles as well as BESS systems already in use but it takes time to build up production to scale. CATL is on pace to have full scale commercial deployment by April, that's only five months away. BYD has a similar timeframe. This is the beginning, they will only grow from here.

Good job .

Geologists have discovered a massive lithium deposit within the McDermitt Caldera along the Nevada-Oregon border, potentially revolutionizing the global lithium supply chain. The deposit is estimated to contain 20 to 40 million metric tonnes of lithium, with unprecedented quality that surpasses any previous find.

@solartimeusa

7 ай бұрын

Thank you so much for sharing! Thats huge news! I personally think lithium will still be HUGE in EV industry, especially with solid state batteries.

The technology is available for many alternate batteries now! However, it takes time to ramp up to large scale production and distribution. It takes years to build factories and produce these products. I am optimistic that in five years or less this revolution will bear fruit.

@solartimeusa

7 ай бұрын

Yes I so so agree! It does take time and I can understand why so many people don't even want to hear about it... they will believe it when we can all see it! :) Hopefully sooner rather than later! Thank you for sharing your thoughts and leaving a comment!

@ChrisHPSNZ

7 ай бұрын

Altech Batteries

@michaeld5888

7 ай бұрын

The problem is it does not take years for governments to impose the use of a product even though it is manifestly not ready for safe and practical use.

Wow! Does she host all the content 😍😍😍 guess I need to sub

@solartimeusa

7 ай бұрын

YES! I run the channel, do the research, family helps with editing. Hope you will subscribe :)!

Great video. Love the drone footage in the facrory videos. Sodium Ion and solid state batteries seem to be the way to go for the future.

@solartimeusa

6 ай бұрын

Thank you so much, and I appreciate you also leaving a comment :)

I watched this video purely out of anticipation. To be really honest, I'm tired of seeing clickbait videos that are deceptive with fancy titles and thumbnails but wind up talking about nothing at all instead of the main topic. I truly appreciate how much you want to share all you know in the video. The video is great! Keep it up, and I look forward to seeing more of your work! I wish you luck with your KZread channel!

@solartimeusa

7 ай бұрын

Thank you so much for saying this. I appreciate it more than you know. Words like yours make me motivated to work and learn and create more content.

So that's why that battery I was looking at buying just dropped in price.

Affordable storage coupled with increased reliabilty and safety would be a game changer for sure.

@KS-45

6 ай бұрын

This is what happens to sodium when it gets wet …. kzread.info/dash/bejne/eaShstaio7aZj6Q.htmlsi=ZYtiBRVeuFPUPn8l Yeah, much safer. 🙄

Thank you for your enthusiastic explanation 😊 Ted & Rosie in Australia 👍

@solartimeusa

7 ай бұрын

My Pleasure Ted and Rosie, Thank you so much for leaving a comment! :)

I think it wise to consider that many varied mixes within batteries will evolve, come and go. There's no need one needs to replace the other, in fact having some diversity of them will ease materials and supply chain shortages that will arise. Those various types will all have characteristics and cost profiles that will find different deployments successfully. And, a few will just bomb out on tech, physics, materials unavailability or costs.

@omeggga

7 ай бұрын

Taken to an extreme that can also strain supply shortages. It's good that Sodium will ease the pressure on the supply chain of Lithium but we only have so many ways of handling logistics.

@Jay-mx5ky

6 ай бұрын

I don't think that's necessarily the case. Sodium ion batteries solve the issue of supply and demand, while solid state batteries provide multiple times energy efficiency and safety increases. The main problems are manufacturing costs/maturity and testing stability. The sooner we can move away from lithium liquid batteries, just like moving from alkaline, the better off we'll be.

@javierititin

6 ай бұрын

@@Jay-mx5ky Imagine Sodium solid state batteries, assuming we can make the solid state part out of recycleable materials.

@Jay-mx5ky

6 ай бұрын

@javierititin I believe that until his passing recently, the scientist who developed the lithium ion battery was in the works of making a "glass" battery, which was solid state and used glass electrolyte and sodium electrodes. I'm not a chemist by any means. I just have a passing interest and trying to get as much info as possible, but I think this means it can be done, though i heard there were flaws and miscalculations with the research. But the alternatives to lithium ion all look like they've got a pretty good shot going for them, so this is rather exciting to see.

We will need lots of new types of batteries and it will happen. One type will not "take over" but each will find a use. Cars might only use the highest energy density ones and grid storage might use other ones. With grid storage you don't have to worry about how big or heavy the battery is, but in cars you need the lightest pack that can store the most energy. Cars also need to charge quicker and for enough cycles without failing to make them useful. This is a good thing because grid battery demand won't be driving up demand (and cost) or car batteries.

@solartimeusa

7 ай бұрын

EXACTLY! So agree! I am working on a video that will talk about EV batteries of the future, and yes, the biggest problem I have with EVs is the charge time....

@misewixe2777

7 ай бұрын

Cars will require external input of energy only once, that will be a battery solid state. Moving forward will be done with magnets used in conjunction with electricity, as usual since everything is electromagnetic. And since one field interact with the other and also be amplified, both ways...battery will load itself up each time car moves or when ppl apply pressure to seats. Just need a piezo-mat under the textile. :D

@adrianthoroughgood1191

7 ай бұрын

​@@misewixe2777I don't know if you're joking, but if not just no. All cars need external energy input. You cannot have a self sustaining system, that is impossible. You can have a solar powered car that gets energy from the sun (if you live somewhere sunny and don't drive far). In the road charging is just too expensive to build at a large scale. The practical choices are charging or battery swapping. There is a tiny car you can buy now which can have a battery swap down by hand without the need of an expensive robot to do it.

@misewixe2777

7 ай бұрын

@@adrianthoroughgood1191 you can have self-sustainability in an open system if it's continuous. All sorts of ways now. Everyone is still hooked on converting sun rays to energy which is just old and clonky tech. Just skip the build of heavy engine block and replace with some entirely different. Who says you must have car with gas? You can use an electric field and maximize its potential in many ways. Either with magnets or more conductivity. And works both ways., yes. Ppl still haven't realized what that means since you can amplify any electric potential, or even dampen it, with magnets. I'm not joking when I say "wave collapsing" - implosive inertia devices in a non-conservational system. Almost zero resistance, can loop it, "park" it - then apply lots of charged up volts to electrons standing in angular momentum stand by mode like a spring ready to shot off. Braking, acceleration is done with an electric field regulator. No point explain this to classical mechanical engineers since they won't wrap their head around the fact that 99 percent of all matter is just plasma, all of it. Only needy pressure and temperature, lower temp and out pops whatever Isotop you need. Back when particle accelerators were in fashion, built end of 18th century. (Haber, Bosch etc Schwarzschild) by ww1 and 2 Preussen had 11 active programs with labs for magnetrons, Zyklotrons etc. So today we produce already meta-materials. But instead of using explosive force, we use implosive force. Sub quantum plasma realms but at the other side of origo. Ppl read Penrose but don't actually understand what he is saying... Well... :)

Awesome!! 🎉

@solartimeusa

7 ай бұрын

Thanks for saying it and leaving a comment. Much much appreciated!!!

Thank you very interesting video.. M

@solartimeusa

2 ай бұрын

Thank you so much!!!

Every month there’s a new news story about a game changing battery and then you don’t hear anything else again about that battery. I’ll believe that this new sodium battery is a game changer when that happens.

@solartimeusa

7 ай бұрын

Agreed! It's almost like bait and switch, but in reality I am thinking it's just that these studies and researchers just take so much time. Quantumscape has been working on their battery since 2010... : O

We will need both

1st sodium battery BMS supplier here~

You sold me on Na battery technology. Thank you 🙂

Excellent information, for many people buying a solar system and also forking over $15k - $20k for home battery storage on top of the solar system is not doable in their budget however with Sodium Ion perhaps a $2,000 battery will help make it work out for everyone. Great video !

@solartimeusa

7 ай бұрын

Yes! I know. Solar is as good as it gets, people already are benefitting from it, but adding battery in the future may be the way to go since they should be a lot cheaper! I personally have had solar on my personal and before family home since 2009. And We cant live without it, but we dont have battery just yet.....

@johnle231

7 ай бұрын

Sodium is already out but pricy currently

@Bowhunters6go8xz6x

7 ай бұрын

@@johnle231 Sodium Ion home storage and Car batteries for EV's are just starting to be built this fall, haven't seen any for sale as of yet !

@johnle231

7 ай бұрын

@@Bowhunters6go8xz6x they’re already out. I’ve been offered them but also people have yt vudeos of their sodium batteries

@user-ke9yk5qp3u

7 ай бұрын

Unfortunately the voltage sag is too high and your inverter will drop out when attempting to power large loads. That's why previous manufacturers of sodium ion batteries have now gone bankrupt.

There is a US sodium ion battery start up company in the US called Natron. It has started production this year and uses slightly different technology with prussian blue as the anode and cathode. The are mainly aiming at power storage and data centres at the moment and it is very early days but Natron could be a good non Chinese option in the future.

@TheCharleseye

7 ай бұрын

Yeah but they'll end up importing salt from China. We have tons of quality crude oil in the US, but we don't use our oil. We sell it to other countries and then buy crappier oil to refine here. It's ridiculous but it's what we do. Globalism is slowly destroying the US.

Its coming. I’m seeing Sib’s listed online for expensive shipping costs to here in the US. It has begun.

There are actually several potential lithium sources in the United States. Specifically in Nevada, North Carolina, and Maine.

Can't wait for home-storage or even grid-level storage with Sodium batteries. But the dependency on China does not end there - look at materials used for cathode...

@solartimeusa

7 ай бұрын

Same! and I know... I wish they would at least try to get some of it done here, or run it in any way.

It is always good to have competing products. The battery problem is not just a resource one but a size one. When we can get a battery the size of a deck of cards to run a Tesla then we are on to something. Hopefully with the discoveries in conductive storage materials being made these days we will have that soon. Then the skies the limit.

This is indeed good news! Even EG4 Powerpro 14.3 kWh batteries selling for under $4k cost approximately $280/kWh. Sodium Ion batteries’ $77.00/kWh initial price is truly a game changer! Thanks Martyna! BTW, what happened to your video released last week comparing 400W solar panels?

@user-tp5yb4hr4w

7 ай бұрын

If you know chemistry at all, you'll know that both of these types of batteries are dangerous as hell and should never be used for something like a vehicle, and honestly shouldn't even be used for mobile devices that heat up, yet we do, now the reason why people do is because we use something that regulates that, but if something happens to your fan inside of your say your steam deck or something like that, they usually have a microchip that shuts off the machine so it doesn't get that hot in order to prevent a literal fire in your hands, they have microchips like that in these cars too, but if that fails or say you get into a wreck with another car and it ignites through the crash, you're looking at a incredibly hot burning chemical fire from hell and you are more than likely going to die. Gosh when you really think about it, we've been at this for over 100 years and we're still using highly flammable or highly corrosive dangerous chemicals in order to transport ourselves with. This is a bit sad to admit but I don't think the future should involve anything battery powered when it comes to vehicles, there are just too many issues you can run into they could wreak havoc, it sounds really Bleak future, but if you want to be safe electric cars or trains really is that future some kind of track, at least inside the vehicle you're safe, it's when it comes to the chemical batteries is where you run into danger the fastest.

@Ryan-ff2db

7 ай бұрын

@@user-tp5yb4hr4w You know what else is dangerous. ICE vehicles, gasoline, oil, plastics, coal. These kill far more people than any EV ever will. For the record by percent you far more likely to die in a gasoline power car than an EV. Even that study the anti-ev folks keep pointing out, if they actually read it, it clearly shows that they are dishonestly putting both hybrids and ev's in the same category. The report clearly shows Hybrids are many, many times more likely to catch fire than EV's. The reason they need to put them in the same category is because it favors the safety of EV's over ICE and Hybrids. That doesn't fit the narrative they're trying to spin.

@alexandruilea915

7 ай бұрын

@@user-tp5yb4hr4w Don't know how to tell you but gas is also extremely flammable so your only chance to "safer" non-grid dependent vehicle is human powered and is called a bicycle.

@user-tp5yb4hr4w

7 ай бұрын

@@alexandruilea915 yes i believe i mentioned this as well, but the only thing i can point to that would be safer is rail way trains that just use electricity straight up, so no issues with a portable battery spontaneously combusting for some reason, i guess the only issue is when traveling outside of the city or state, i don't think they would build an infrastructure for something outside of the city transportation wise outside of goods transportation, however blackouts could also happen. lol if only we went with Tesla's coil that extracts electricity from the air and use it on the go, instead we have to be plugged into everything or close to the charger.

@HybridShedIraq

5 ай бұрын

15kw lfp cells you can order from china for less than 100$ per cell and you need 16.

Desalination plants have to dilute the salt before returning it to the sea to avoid damaging the environment. Perhaps this battery technology could use the salt waste from desalination.

Good video.

@solartimeusa

7 ай бұрын

Thanks! :) and Thanks for leaving a comment. :)

FYI, there is very little lithium in lithium batteries. The primary component in lithium batteries is nickle. Additionally, if you think back to your high school chemistry classes, remember what happened when water comes in contact with sodium. The evolution of the battery still has a long way to go and it will be interesting to see what the chemical makeup will be 30 years from now.

@solartimeusa

7 ай бұрын

Yes, very true sodium is also very explosive, so I cannot wait to see how CATL and BYD makes their sodium batteries react LESS. I know its still fiction to many but since they are supposedly in production now, I cannot wait to see when they are available to the general public.

@armourofgod6310

6 ай бұрын

folks were making great strides in sodium batteries in the late 1800's. They had cars running up to 300 miles. It's not so much tech, it all has to do with who runs the world.

Sodium ion batteries are best for smaller EVs, phevs, and home batteries. They don't perform the gest for higher performance, longer range vehicles. As for the home, it would be nice if every new home came standard with Sodium ion battery storage/generator.

@solartimeusa

7 ай бұрын

Yes very very true, solid state I believe will be the solution for EVs. Working on a video about those now. :)

@Josephthe4th

7 ай бұрын

​@@solartimeusa What's the best battery for RVs or iff grid? Loved and saved this video and subscribed.

@armourofgod6310

6 ай бұрын

@@Josephthe4th Lithium iron batteries (lifepo4)

One more thing, we have practically infinite mineral supllies for a couple kinds of battery, including sodium batteries such as flow batteries. But do you want to know another? Lead acid. It is terrible for transport, of course. Lead is heavy. But for stationary applications like grid storage, it is great. And recycling them is easy.

This is wonderful news,,,. Here in Oklahoma we have the Great salt flats! I would love to see if there's any way for us to use this on the off-grid,,diy front?

Great for immobile storage and short range EVs. It’s all about weight when it comes to vehicles and at the same weight Sodium has less range.

@MrMajicLife

7 ай бұрын

150km battery should be enough for 90% of ppls living in an urban area...

@SemiDad

7 ай бұрын

@@MrMajicLife this is where the NIO swappable battery makes sense 👍

Great job, very informative videos, could you please make a video about LFP batteries, that would help me to find out if Tesla Model Y with LFP barriers is a right choice for me living in cold climate.

It was a stupid beginning to use lithium, but if the safety aspect is better, then it is a game changer. The WEF does not want people to use their own private cars, however they do not come up with alternatives. I do not think it is about air quality, but money. It is really expensive to have an EV and the infrastructure is still not in operation in England. We are also finding problems with insurance.

@solartimeusa

7 ай бұрын

I agree, the infrastructure is the problem for sure... That's one of the reasons my family always keeps a backup Gasoline car... You cannot go on longer trips with EVs... I am just very very hopeful and honestly, I think it will be solid-state batteries, not sodium that will be huge for EVs. I am making a video about those coming next week. Hopefully you will give it a watch. Sodium will be huge for stationary storage like home back up and utility scale, in my personal opinion.

New battery stories are as common as rain. They appear every six months for the last 70 years.

The price of lithium is due to supply and demand, if these sodium ion batteries are able to replace lithium ion batteries then the demand for lithium with plummet.

ive been telling my friends for over a year, sodiums safety and cost will win. especailly in cold Canada.

Sodium more availible as it is in salt water, but clorine would be a byproduct that is toxic when removed from salt. Metalic Sodium does share one big problem with lithum is the fire risk and even burning with water.

great video. was just learning about BYD and the sodium ion batteries and northvolt as well. alaska looking at big graphite mine near the town of nome, and it seems like this sodium ion battery will displace lithium ion as the go to battery for EV...

SafeCore makes a lithium ion battery that doesn't explode when exposed to air they made it in 2018 and it's still not mandatory for battery manufacturers. Big Oil is not going to let go of their grip on the world so easily.

TIAMAT , a french startup and owner of his own sodium-ion patent is already selling their 1860 cells, for the moment it's in small appliance ( you can already buy sodiu-ion screwdriver il the "Leroy Merlin" , a kind of french Home Depot )

@solartimeusa

7 ай бұрын

Oh wow, great to know, I need to look into them! :) Thank you for sharing.

@MdMax001

7 ай бұрын

Yes, this looks like a good idea especially if the number of charging cycles can be higher before battery degradation. It will be interesting to see if these cells will also be considered for phones and laptops.

@philv3941

7 ай бұрын

@@MdMax001 i don't think so, those ( tiamat ) are for ultra deep cycling and intensity , but they are close to 100Wh/kg, while li-ion are 250 and the very best 300

I remember a School experiment where a very small piece of sodium metal was dropped into a dish of water. It fizzed with a violent exothermic reaction and finally exploded. Sodium ion batteries for vehicles will be around twice the weight of lithium ion batteries, still catch fire and still release a strong alkaline into the environment when attempting to extinguish with water. As there is NO EVIDENCE whatsoever for "human caused global warming" now morphed into "climate change", which tens of thousands of indepedent, well qualifed Physicists, Geologists, Engineers and Others have been saying since Day 1, just stick with internal combustion engined vehicles which are the result of 120 years of extensive development.

Lithium is not limited in production and is going to increase drastically and costs are going to fall rapidly. I have been selling lithium batteries for years and they continue to drop at quite a substantial rate.

@0Aus

7 ай бұрын

No. Rio Tinto Have made a clear. Even with current output increasing And taking into account all new lithium projects supply is expected to fall short by 50% within the the next 2 years.

Good show. Few facts though: Lithium is not at all scarce, it is lithium mines that are scarce. Sufficient lithium in N.America, but do folks want an open pit mine in their back yard? That is the question. It is available, but barely any existing mines in the US. Enough in Chile, Australia and China, that's why prices have plummeted over the past decade and continue to drop. About the economy: in the US, the economy is booming! Job markets are at historic highs and stock markets too, seems that there is some inflation, but this is contained. Boom time right now! But of course: sodium is a lot less disturbing and even more abundant than lithium. US is 11% of the automotive market - so take a global perspective 🤔 😊. Obviously, there are disruptions: economic change! Like the departure from internal combustion engines! Good news for all except those who produce them - but actually good for them too! Thanks for the news item!

Sodium batteries are currently in several EV’s as of today. They seem to be working. My only issue with all EV’s is range and charge time. 500 miles minimum range for my comfort level and 10 minutes for a decent charge %

@solartimeusa

2 ай бұрын

I do agree with that. The range is what bothers me most. Or gives the range anxiety.

You hear a lot about the energy per kg for Na Ion batteries, but a lot less about energy density per litre. I have heard the energy density per volume is less than Li Ion and may be an obstacle to longer range EVs.

@user-ke9yk5qp3u

7 ай бұрын

Not to mention voltage sag during high loads.

All we have to do is to replace batteries for static use such as grid storage or home use and leave Li for mobile applications where kWh per kg is important. But to be successful, the Na batteries have to have much longer lives and be cheaper than Li batteries. The relative price of Li and Na are not the only factors that determine the price of a battery.

@solartimeusa

7 ай бұрын

Agreed, the cost of just the element is not the whole cost of the battery for sure. I am really curious to see how those eventually will price out. SUrely it will be few more years before we know, but just happy about the progress.

So glad you are talking about this tech. In a short time there will be an inflection point where you wont be able to sell your house if it does not have solar install and battery backup. It will be like trying to sell a house in 2023 without indoor plumbing. Great work on you channel spreading knowledge!

@solartimeusa

7 ай бұрын

Haha I love the comparison you made and oh boy I am looking forward to those times. Thanks for the comment :)!!!

@chesshooligan1282

7 ай бұрын

I wouldn't buy a mansion without a microwave oven or a wi-fi router, because everybody knows once you buy a house that's missing something, you're stuck without the missing thing forever.

@callmebigpapa

7 ай бұрын

@@chesshooligan1282 I appreciate what you are saying but those are small portable things whereas plumbing, electric, solar and other large infra is less appealing to retrofit. For example when I buy my next house I want a 4 car garage, yes I could build an external/additional garage but i am much more likely to just buy a house with that already due to the cost and complexity of adding it on.

@teekay_1

7 ай бұрын

lol.

@teekay_1

7 ай бұрын

@@callmebigpapa Yes, it would be impossible to add batteries to you house. You might as well tear the whole thing down, and start over. Same for solar cells. If the house is not built with solar cells, there is no known technology to put them on a house and run all those wires down to the batteries that aren't there. In fact, maybe the best thing to do for new houses is put in the solar cells first, the battery second and build the house around them. Then we can be extra sure it will have those impossible-to-add-features later.

I agree. We cannot use Lithium batteries (which explode). Several people in the UK alone, are dead because they were charging their bicycles inside their houses. Many videos from China show cars exploding. A lower storage capacity in Na would be an acceptable compromise, if they do not "go bang".

@solartimeusa

7 ай бұрын

Exactly, which is another problem. Sodium is also explosive, so I am looking forward to seeing how they will design those units to finally make them more safe.

It will be interesting what the real world driving range of Na ion batteries will be in an EV. If the cold weather performance is better plus if the manufacturers need to leave less of a buffer because of the ability to be able to use the full 0% to 100% range. Then maybe Sodium Ion batteries will be a better fit for EV's than everone is thinking?

@solartimeusa

7 ай бұрын

I personally think that sodium will be huge for utility scale storage and home storage. I am working on a video for future EV batteries, it's pretty interesting what they are working on now. Hopefully you will be able to see it :)

@rico4229

7 ай бұрын

@@solartimeusa sounds interesting..

@roschanvargonay9820

7 ай бұрын

That‘s exactly what came to my mind. Don‘t compare the absolute energy density that os possible but the capacity that is usable without accelerating the decay of the cells.

@dannelson6980

7 ай бұрын

Much of the driving range loss in cold weather is due to the heating / cooling system of car using a third of energy just to maintain battery and cabin temperature. We have the same losses of range in Arizona during summer when it is 105 to 119 F. Short trips just kill our efficiency in the summer drawing almost as much power cooling as it does to propel the car. Of course if the battery temperature range is expanded less energy will be used keeping the battery in the operating range.

@adrianthoroughgood1191

7 ай бұрын

​@@dannelson6980maybe cars should be built with better insulation and double glazed windows on the back and sides? It's a really good idea to arrange things so your car is plugged in whenever parked as much as possible. Then you can use the app to pre heat or cool the car on mains power so that you start the trip with a full battery. Heating or cooling during the journey will still cost you some range but getting the initial bit done first will help quite a bit.

where can I get some?

The primary cost of sodium hydroxide is the fact it is highly corrosive, and expensive precautions must be taken during transport and handling. A better comparison for cost would be table salt, an equally valid source of sodium whose cost is only a few dollars per metric ton.

I would like not to BBQ in my car. I choose safer over range.

@solartimeusa

5 ай бұрын

Very good point!

Oh look it has been 10 years since this video and we are still using lithium batteries

@solartimeusa

7 ай бұрын

Hey, I am a new youtuber...:D I posted it since CATL and BYD are supposedly starting production on it, so I found it very interesting, being in the solar industry since being a little kid. Lets see!! :)

Yes. Don’t you know Arkansas is ahead of this ! Mobile already bought land already is for hire for next yr! ❤❤❤❤they are already doing it ;)

Im so glad for you sister Matryna!

@solartimeusa

7 ай бұрын

Thanks, Brother! Love you!!!

Many years ago, when I was a kid, we were told that when I hit middle age we would all be commuting in flying cars. Here I am, in middle age, and flying cars have not become any more main stream than they were when I was a kid. In the last 20 years we have been told that new battery technology would revolutionize the world. Here we are, still using the same battery technology with nothing but scientific promises.

@solartimeusa

7 ай бұрын

I agree... We will believe it when we ACTUALLY see it. I am just hopeful as I am a young professional in my late 20s. Hoping that I will actually get to SEE it.

Fact these batteries are being produced this year (which I doubt), doesn't mean they're ready to be used in cars right now. We may see the 1st sodium powered car around 2027 hopefully which kills the hype

Sodium batteries for grid storage and off grid homes where size and weight are less important will keep the price down on lithium for vehicles and cell phones where size and weight are a huge concern.

imagine they actually made these and never just spoke about them

This is what I have been waiting for: Sodium-Ion. I have a system installed by SolarTimeUSA, but no battery. I want to add a battery by 06/2025. If Sodium-Ion technology is developed by then, it will be a Sodium-Ion battery. We'll see... ...

@solartimeusa

7 ай бұрын

Yess!! We will definitely keep you posted :)

Huge recoverable source for lithium was found in Western U.S..

We have had a method for energy storage for over a decade. Point of use storage. IE every house and factory has it's own energy storage and solar cells etc. About 50% of houses and flats are suitable for power banks. Currently the actual cells are about £0.20 per watt hour. Put a 30kWh battery bank into every home that can take one and you would have 390GWh or storage. Average energy usage is 8kWh per day. Call it 10 to keep the maths easy. That would mean every house with one would have 3 days of electricity n storage. 5kWh of solar panels even in winter produce 5kWh per day so even in winter you would have 4.5 days of electricity real terms. The rest of the time you would get near half your power from the power bank that has been charged during the day. But we cant have consumers consuming less can we? That would vastly reduce share prices and dividends.

There is also the possibility of something called a magnesium- ion battery but that is only experimental at this point

@solartimeusa

7 ай бұрын

Interesting... Need to look into it!

Unfortunately, the US would never allow CATL to do business in America due to national security concerns.

Why not just use roadway induction ? Buried powerlines under the road to induce current into a pickup device on a vehicle to run the motors. Small battery pack for off grid driving.

Potassium and phosphorus batteries have been around since the 70s. Aluminum/air batteries also. Hell a phosphoric acid battery has been arosince the early 70s. The problem with it is that it has to be heated to 600 degrees Fahrenheit.

The fundamental properties of sodium are similar but slightly worse for batteries, compared to lithium. Besides lower energy density, sodium is actually generally more reactive than lithium. Choosing worst case lithium based batteries with a type of sodium batteries that can be punctured, and claim that the difference is caused by having sodium instead of lithium is false. Sodium atoms, and ions, are much bigger than lithium atoms and ions. Atomic mass of sodium is over three times that of lithium, and that is why energy density lower. And that causes some other issues for use in batteries, the ions moves in the batteries, and using sodium requires moving more than tree times, by mass, larger ions for the same amount of energy per ion. That means the disadvantages of sodium are totally fundamental and unavoidable, and quite significant. Lithium typically don't make up a huge part of the total cost of lithium batteries, significant yes, but not huge. Lithium is abundant enough, some of the problem is that extraction and refining has trouble increasing as fast as demand, because the relative growth of demand is huge. Lithium and sodium is produced the essentially same ways, supply will catch up with demand, and lithium will constitute a small part of the total cost of lithium batteries, even if it will remain more expensive than sodium, that difference will have small to insignificant impact on the cost of the batteries. The really great thing with sodium batteries, and yes, there's an enormously great thing with them, and that is that they can potentially keep price of lithium low, by replacing lithium in applications where the lower performance is acceptable. In the same way choosing LFP reduces demand for nickel and cobalt, with the difference that LFP also actually have some practical advantages over more energy dense lithium-ion batteries.

Sodium ion batteries have lower energy density, slower recharge times, and cant deliver high energy quickly like lithium ion batteries. So applications for sodium ion are best for home energy banks, not vehicles.

Lithium has its uses, for larger storage Sodium has potential. USA is more than likely the Saudi of Lithium btw, we have just begun there.

@solartimeusa

6 ай бұрын

Yes, and I also dont think lithium is going anywhere, with its energy density we will see a huge potential in EV with the new solid state batteries.

I've heard for a few years now that we will have Sodium batteries soon for home energy storage, I finally gave up waiting and installed a Tesla Powerwall. I really do hope Sodium batteries will become mainstream and lower the cost in the future, but in the meantime Lithium remains the only real option.

@Ryarios

7 ай бұрын

We were supposed to have commercial fusion 40 years ago too. It’s always just 20 years away. I’ll believe these things when I see them in viable use. I hope it’s soon, but won’t be holding my breath.

If we could combine a need for sodium with desalination plants, we'd solve a LOT of problems for ourselves and the planet. One of the big issues with harvesting ocean water is, "What do we do with all the salt?" Welp, there's our answer. Turn it into batteries. I think the #1 market for these batteries are for homes. If we could have MUCH cheaper ways to store energy to get our homes toward off grid living, then we could leave the lithium for the cars and campers - for now. Just decreasing the demand for lithium would lower the price. Also, the USGS just announced that they've found the world's largest lithium deposit right here in the USA. (I'm 100% certain that they've kept this in their back pocket for awhile now.) I think we're entering the era of dirt cheap phones and other portable electronics.

zinc bromide is the go for large static instalations, fireproof, recyclable, can charge and discharge immense currents, cheap

FIRST - Overbuild across a wide geographic area. Wind and solar are 1/4 nuclear now, so we can afford it. Don't think about your city going 100% renewables, think about North America as in Canada, USA and Mexico all being interconnected and going 200 or 300% wind and solar - and that's just for electricity (and maybe some transport). It's VASTLY cheaper to see renewable grids this way than to try and store enough power for winter in your own city or State. Professor Andrew Blakers has modelled Australia - with all our sunshine and windy coasts, and concluded that if each state in Australia were to try and build their own renewable grid - each state would pay up to 5 times more in storage costs! THEN realise that sodium batteries should only store the first hour or so. Professor Blakers has a Global Pumped Hydro atlas that shows that there is 100 TIMES the storage the world needs in OFF-RIVER pumped hydro. No rivers get messed up. These dams are faster and cheaper and safer to build than on-river. Fill them slowly and cover in floating solar panels to reduce evaporation, and you can have all the storage you need. But I hear you - sodium batteries are awesome. But basically I think off-river pumped hydro in the blakers global atlas show that this should be prioritised as a Federal government public infrastructure build, and just smash them out!

Did we not have these batteries in electric cars in the late 1800's?

@solartimeusa

6 ай бұрын

Sodium-ion battery (SIB) was originally developed in the late 1980s, in similar time as lithium ion batteries. But maybe some form of sodium was used before i would have to dig deeper. The first Electric vehicle back in 1888 used a lead acid battery with a whooping 1-horsepower electric motor :D

There's no need for "typical" batteries for large storage for industry and urban planning, there's simpler and cheaper alternatives to invest in. For the consumer, yes this is the first actually green typical battery.

@solartimeusa

7 ай бұрын

Very interested to see how it actually plays out when they make it available for the end consumer. Thanks for sharing your thoughts :)

I mean when it comes to cost, why not because it also fits most people's needs anyways. Personally I like off grid stuff as well, I could see a better mix even though everything is ready now and safer. Sodium batteries make sense its way more economical with the choice of gas and lithium, because lithium needs to be made safe for long term use.

@solartimeusa

7 ай бұрын

Agreed, and yes I am definitely looking for something that us homeowners will be able to install in our homes, that will be safe and affordable. Its still years away, since those sodium new batteries will be made for electric cars, but I'm hoping in the next 5-10 years we will see something well tested and good for the residential use. Thank you for leaving a comment! :)

nice

Very nice e

@solartimeusa

7 ай бұрын

Thanks! :)

That's great for backup at home, but as for cars, you still have to produce the electricity to begin with to charge these cars. So having the infrastructure to charge the cars and being able to produce the electricity for the increase in the number of cars is still real. There needs to be technology to at least double the range of the cars at a minimum and cut the cost of the cars in half at a minimum and then increase the output of the electric grid about 10X. Still have a ways to go.

@solartimeusa

7 ай бұрын

I Agree.... I think the better technology for EV will be solid state battery, I am working on that video now, stay tuned. We do have ways to go as far as EVs for sure!

Did someone know that Bluetti has a prototype of a solar power station based on Na-ion instead of LFP or NMC batteries? They did show it on CES 2023 earlier this year!

@solartimeusa

7 ай бұрын

O wow!!! Looking into it! Soo cool, thank you for sharing!

@armourofgod6310

6 ай бұрын

Thank you this, going to check it out

It seems like sodium ion batteries will excel at grid and home storage, knocking out the use of LiFePo batteries for this usage. That will lessen the competion for lithium, allowing more of it to be used for mobile use. How long until you can buy them for DYI home storage, like you can do with LiFePo today?

Solar desalinate seawater, recover drinkable water, keep the sodium for battery manufacturing. Win-win.