@thecowboy19911 it's interesting though to see how human beings scientists or average joes like most of us can observe through common sense that nothing comes from nothing , or design from chaos there must be some kind of interference or intelligence in the whole thing..it's fascinating that we have those common sense rules imposed in every human being's mind.

Quantum physics shows what seem to be temporary violations of Conservation of Energy. If energy is not necessarily conserved on such a scale then there's good reason to believe that something can come from nothing. As long as Conservation of Energy is in effect, order and complexity emerge naturally as energy interacts with energy. Consequently, if energy is conserved, it cannot be created or destroyed. Not that there CAN'T be more, but further assumptions are unnecessary.

Instead, that which exists simply has certain sets positive properties and not others. It's obvious that something can't come from nothing though, and combined with the fact that we see no manifestation of creators, this leads us to conclude that nature itself is the eternal being. To do otherwise would be to violate Occam's razor and engage in irrational reasoning.

@Gnomefro I agree with the concept that something cannot come from nothing. Occam's razor limits the scope of possibility to only known theories. I see it used by both theists and atheists to assert their view-point as obvious. It is what we use to convince ourselves and our students. It does not satisfied opposition in debates. Opposing views will always seem unreasonable/irrational. Men have many polarized views, yet Occam is of no help.

@thecowboy19911 for example i started questioning every (sacred) text as a message from that supreme diety we call god..being sincere and open minded i found that it's logical to beleive in instructions a.k.a laws from that diety sent to his creation to tell them how to live and interact with their surroundings and providing an answer to the purpose of existence question.

@robtbo hey robtbo,that's a good point u made.i got some comments thought if those temporary violations of conservation of energy are validated, and that something can come from nothing that's a good reason to beleive in an intelligent force creating the universe too , which i address as god we are not talking about temporary violations though, we are taking about massive amount of different types of energy that can only convert to one another they couldnt have come from nothing

@matthewtaylorbrown hey bro..yeah ur ryt i made a mistake by saying god doesn't have a nature coz this is clearly a description to god..but wat i know through the quran is that god is not like anything we know or imagine as i stated before..i like to point out that we shouldn't use the term (god) when discussing the truth about life it's not logical to talk to u as an atheist about my (god)

@matthewtaylorbrown well thats because everybody has his own image of a god or gods, religions somehow sound biased by social or political influences and some ppl actually use religion..but when sincerely approching the origins of universe topic u'll have to dumb those pre-images u made and recognise a supreme being or power without being biased by ur own desires or influenced by the (religious) beleifs of ppl

@Gnomefro I was not looking for a reason to reject, it just happened. I believe we have created all the gods and have intimate knowledge of them as we have described within the old texts. I will go as far as to say that I agree with you wholeheartedly, if any of the gods existed, we wouldn't have a clue as to their true nature. I image we would be as ants. I do understand the context of externalized creation concepts; within and without. I doubt the divinity of all 'sacred' texts.

If we're going to rely on human experience as a guide on what type of explanations to reject, which I think is a good approach, then I have to point out that we have zero experience with gods. I also have to point out that there is an inconsistency here. Things having a nature, such as gravity, does not imply that they have limitations on them imposed from the outside. If that was the case, you immediately have infinite regress on your god, because he has a nature according to the Qur'an.

@thecowboy19911 if u agree on the concept of intelligent design or interference u can easily conclude that some conscious being has created the universe let's just not name it..but then will arise the WHY question

@thecowboy19911 We shouldn't use the term (god)? Point well taken on the use and concepts of of gods.

@thecowboy19911 I get it, dismiss/reject any preconceived notions or images of what I've been taught, shown, or discovered. Only then can I see that there is one true god that does not resemble all the mythical gods. I need to unsubscribe to the baggage so I can realize the potential for something so obviously present that I'll have a revelation?

@Gnomefro hey bro,first of all quran states god is not like anything we know god doesnt have a (nature),secondly it's not just common sense and human experience we are relying on , darwinism and abiogenesis theories are proven impossible (thus nature cant be the eternal being) , moreover the big bang is verified and sticking to laws of conservation of energy there must be a source to it ryt ? peace..

until here no one can assume through common sense or human experience a definite purpose to creation.. it has to be a message from that creator ryt ? i encourage u to take time in reading some books like the quran , the bible and torah , take a look at hinduism and buddhism watever u like but wat u'll be looking for is proof that the message in those books are from the creator himself..peace.

@thecowboy19911 One first has to objectively consider both sides of existence. Are gods real or are they not? I am certain that you are strong in your faith that, indeed, the god of your religion (Islam) is real and is the creator of the universe and all it contains. We have only the human experience for which to refer, that includes our long list of sacred and non-sacred texts. And we have created so many gods for which to choose. Your god not having a nature? That is a description of one god.

@thecowboy19911 You'll need to know that I'm not a science-based atheist. I never wasn't a good science student in my youth. I know the basic concepts now as I've had to interact with other atheists that are what I call, proof-based. The big-bang sounds very similar to creation if you ask me, not that is a reason to validate or invalidate it. Evolution as fact or fiction does not prove or disprove the existence of gods. Origin is a mystery, attempts to explain: science and theology.

@ClarkJones44 hey man,we got no evidence for nothing, but we have evidence for (something) a.k.a the whole existence..something can exist , some other thing doesn't exist so we use the term (nothing). about human maladies we would have never recognised well being if there was no maladies..i also see them as a muslim as tests or alerts from allah to turn to him and seek his help i also see them as a result of violation of laws of allah for example fornication is the cause of aids

Where is the evidence that there ever was or ever could be "nothing"? Cell Phones are clearly designed for a specific purpose so your analogy falls flat. What were hemorrhoids, impacted wisdom teeth and all the other human maladies designed for?

There are no gods.

@thecowboy19911 one cause of spread of AIDS sorry