Proof that the Holy Spirit is real: the fact that Cliff can go through these conversations without punching the other person(s).

@italianobrandini1196

2 жыл бұрын

Oh man, a big amen to that!

@ramonlopez95

2 жыл бұрын

Why?

@proscience7462

2 жыл бұрын

@@italianobrandini1196 wow how very Christian of you to agree with a comment like that

@italianobrandini1196

2 жыл бұрын

@@proscience7462 Of course, that’s so nice of you to say, I appreciate that. 😉

@busybody1474

2 жыл бұрын

@@proscience7462 said the clueless gay crybaby on his way to hell 🙄

ROMANS 1:23 PROFESSING THEMSELVES TO BE WISE THEY BECAME FOOLS!

@zealot777

2 жыл бұрын

That perfectly describes the first student. He was all over the place with his arguments.

@yngclothing

2 жыл бұрын

Exactly!! He was so dishonest. I don’t believe this but I live like I do, and that’s not fantasy. Like he actually tried to argue this. Wow .. shame on him

@SELAHPAUSE

2 жыл бұрын

@@yngclothing exactly

@geness9676

2 жыл бұрын

Exactly.

@spencerl3734

2 жыл бұрын

Dead on

This video was actually a challenge to watch. The student is living in complete contradiction. It's so bizarre how someone can be so hard-hearted as to, in the same breath, condemn evil and yet be so adamant that evil does not exist. Mind-boggling.

@bikesrcool_1958

Жыл бұрын

Then he at the end “does anyone hear this?” When he thinks he found a contradiction…. The cringe I felt. Very hypocritical, and he probably thinks he is very intellectual. I’m happy though, because that showed other people the fault with it, and planted seeds in him

@LegarretaRandom

3 ай бұрын

Thank you! 💯

@itssJ_lol

2 ай бұрын

😂😂😂 bro I’m glad someone said it this vid makes me wonder how you live like that and as a Christian I try to see where he’s coming from so I can help direct him to correction but it just don’t make sense

We gotta keep Cliffe in prayer.

@mekavio8231

2 жыл бұрын

@@darkeen42 indeed, he is rambling stuff at a high speed to "stun" his opponent.. it is a "tactic" that works also in sales and politics, now also available in "religion" why don't we have a whole 30 min dedicated to Ephesians 6:5-8 ? what god meant when he wanted that slaves should work harder and complain less ????? and stay on topic...

@Ezekio3160

2 жыл бұрын

@@mekavio8231 it’s been explained already by Dr. Frank Turek

@LANDRYPHYNO

2 жыл бұрын

@@mekavio8231 you read Ephesians 5-8 what about verse 9?

@mekavio8231

2 жыл бұрын

@@LANDRYPHYNO as i thougth, so it is okay if there is some "reward" in the afterlife ? or the promise ??? the fact that you don't want to discuss Ephesians 6:5-8 but immediatly give me an other verse, tells me that you somehow don"t feel comfortable with Ephesians 6:5-8 ... or do you ? lets talk ONLY about Ephesians 6:5-8 , because it is the word of the creator of the universe, right ? well, start talking about it, without quoting other verses.. let"s DIVE into " Ephesians 6:5-8 " ...

@LANDRYPHYNO

2 жыл бұрын

@@mekavio8231 it's a passage from verse 5-9, why would i ignore a verse in it ?

I'm studying his videos, I feel the call to be a missionary and his conversations are helping me prepare for the people I'm going to encounter.

@abzabby7415

Жыл бұрын

Bless you. I pray that the Lord will direct.and guide your steps to the calling that He has for you. Do not listen to people who tells you NO but listen to what God has impressed in your life.

@abzabby7415

Жыл бұрын

@@darkeen42 I challenge you to open your heart and mind to Jesus and He will encounter you. 😊 God bless

@huntisaiah9

Жыл бұрын

God bless you! Start your journey our world needs it!

@dited358

Жыл бұрын

@@darkeen42 Lmao imagine not understanding the relation of faith to knowledge. They are not opposites, faith means to know with confidence and an increase in knowledge would also increase faith. Quit spamming cringe.

@-_-_-_8441

Жыл бұрын

Wow you should maybe study the Bible and follow Jesus. Why on earth would you become a jehovas witness? It has nothing to do with Jesus

I wish more Christian intellectuals would do what Cliffe is doing, defending the gospel of Christ.

@isphenomenal

2 жыл бұрын

It’s glad to have knowledge on the intellectual sight but lest not lose sight of the gospel and staying in intimacy with Jesus. , with the Godhead . But yes it’s great to want to know the Lords mind, His intellect. Continue on Kingdom kids

@willtherealrustyschacklefo3812

2 жыл бұрын

Kent hovind, Dr.jason lisle. You will not be disappointed

@TimothyC.84

2 жыл бұрын

Check out Frank Turek at Cross Examined KZread channel and his lectures. “I Don’t Have Enough Faith To Be An Atheist”.

@willtherealrustyschacklefo3812

2 жыл бұрын

@@TimothyC.84 A very good point I often make lol. Kent hovind did some really good ones like 3 evolutionists vz 1 creationist and 100 reasons why evolution is stupid

@TimothyC.84

2 жыл бұрын

@@willtherealrustyschacklefo3812 Thanks for that reference. I’ve gotta check that out!! God Bless You. 🙏🏾

This kid is the representation of what an “intellectual” is today

@ramptonarsecandle

2 жыл бұрын

The "kid" ripped Cliffe a new one, the kid was way ahead of Cliffe in terms of intellect. Cliffe just spews the usual empty vacuous rhetoric. Talking about biblical morals is so funny when the christian bible has such verses as this; “Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, “Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all - old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple.” So they began by killing the seventy leaders. “Defile the Temple!” the LORD commanded. “Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!” So they went throughout the city and did as they were told.” (Ezekiel 9:5-7)

@theoskeptomai2535

2 жыл бұрын

How so? Why _this_ student in particular?

@mygiftmatters

2 жыл бұрын

@@ramptonarsecandle Well that would be a valid point, if your world-view had valid points beyond your authority. If there is no God, and you're not granting God as the Christian's God defines Himself, i.e. above you, then your point is just as arbitrary as anyone else' point, and you should rather not bother commenting; since according to your own standard and world-view, no one believes you have any authority, especially not as ultimate an authority as the Christian defined God claims Himself to be. Thanks for wasting our time.

@dogelife7901

2 жыл бұрын

The kid literally admitted he lived in fantasy land. More wreckage in the comments I see.

@dogelife7901

2 жыл бұрын

God's justice will one day no longer tolerate wickedness, better to be on his good side when that day comes. Ezekiel 7:9 I will not look on you with pity; I will not spare you. I will repay you for your conduct and for the detestable practices among you. “ ‘Then you will know that it is I the Lord who strikes you. “ ‘See, the day! See, it comes! Doom has burst forth, the rod has budded, arrogance has blossomed! Ezekiel 7:11 Violence has arisen, a rod to punish the wicked. None of the people will be left, none of that crowd- none of their wealth, nothing of value. Ezekiel 7:12 The time has come! The day has arrived! Let not the buyer rejoice nor the seller grieve, for my wrath is on the whole crowd."

ASIAN STUDENT: Why does God not populate the Earth with beings that can’t do evil? ME: Because God is not interested in robots. He is interested in a relationship with those who choose to seek Him and love Him out of their free will.

@nikokapanen82

2 жыл бұрын

Then you did not watch the video properly. He asked this question because Cliff said that in Heaven we will become such beings who never desire to do evil, therefore God has the ability to create beings with freedom who never desires evil. This is why he asked this question, why did not God create us, who lives in this world with no desires for evil.

@bryant475

2 жыл бұрын

@@nikokapanen82 In heaven, we will no longer have our sinful flesh, just our souls. We will still have free will, but will be incapable of sin/evil. God didn't create us with that same ability on Earth, because that would actually place limits on our free will, by not allowing our sinful flesh to tempt us. We wouldn't truly be free in that case. God wants us to truly and freely love Him, trust in Him, etc. He will never force someone into heaven to be with Him, if they don't want to. He can't force anyone to love Him. This is a big reason why after one gets saved, born again and receives the Holy Spirit, it's important to continue sanctification and to live as holy as possible, glorifying God in all things we do. The powers that be, established by the enemy, will continue to deceive, tempt, and mock us, but the more trust we have in the Lord, the better we will endure to the end. Then, we will be rewarded in heaven when our sinful flesh is no longer, and we will only desire to do God's will and glorify Him in all ways. It really makes you think, how many people actually do this in their lives? Even Christians? We have all fallen short, but we can all do better and that's part of the journey. God bless!

@nikokapanen82

2 жыл бұрын

@@bryant475 I'll be blunt and honest, that reasoning does not sound right at all. The idea that the ability to do evil is freedom given to us by God, as a gift, so that we could do what? Fall into sin and end down to hell? Something is not right. You know like some agnostics asks Christians a question, why did God created us with the capacity to do evil and some Christians answer, to make us free agents and not robots, yet then an agnostics say, if being a free agent means to fall into sin and end up burning in fire forever, then please makes us robots or make us animals, zebras, dogs etc. but never make us free agents because no freedom is worth burning in torment forever. I believe the "ability" to do evil is not freedom, it is a fall, only a fallen beings are capable of evil. Now why did this fall happened? A question which cannot be answered, i can suggest, maybe because evil is creating the contrast to good and exposing it, also exalting it. Like without ever experiencing darkness, we could never appreciate light, we could not even know what light is, the same way it is with evil, it has to erupt into existence to show what good is and to exalt good and appreciate it. So evil was inevitable, it has to come but eventually God will deal with and in the end of all ends, He will become all in all as apostle Paul mention it in 1Cor 15.

@mygiftmatters

2 жыл бұрын

@@bryant475 Actually that's not True Bryant, even in Heaven and specifically first in the millennial 1,000 year kingdom of Christ on Earth we WILL have the capability to sin, but we will not choose to do so. Likewise, Lucifer and many others were Holy in Spirit alone, prior to their fall.

@dogelife7901

2 жыл бұрын

I will trust Jesus. Seems to be the best option.

Boy oh boy, demons are slick and come looking so innocent. Cliffe is so patient. God bless you and your ministry. I pray for these students.

@icon-jn1cu

6 ай бұрын

I don't think these people are "demons" just those who do not understand the teachings of Jesus or the Bible.

@knxcholx

Ай бұрын

@@icon-jn1cu exactly. We gotta realize more people are being exposed to atheism and agnosticism everyday

Jesus is king

@d0unutn1nj4

2 жыл бұрын

Amen brotha

@PopeLeoXIIIFanAccount

2 жыл бұрын

Based and Christ-pilled

@geness9676

2 жыл бұрын

AMEN 🙏 🙏

@thatone8085

Жыл бұрын

Buddha is higher ranking than christ , allah and all indian gods. Christ would ask buddha for advice whenever he can't solve a puzzle . Cx the heaven scriptures. But on earth , humans are not told the truth because the white race had changed all history books and the bible content. Ask the african black race for more information.

@BrotherCam

Жыл бұрын

AMEN KING JESUS CHRIST IS LORD GOD AMEN AND HALLELUJAH!! ✝️

That first kid's thinking is scary. It's thinking like that that people use to justify doing incredible evil.

Wow this one was a challenging one to watch. This gentleman completely believes he's a robot made out of chemicals that just miraculously put themselves together. I wonder if this person has ever felt love has ever felt compassion or anything and just thought wow this is not because of chemicals. Great job cliff

@idkybily

2 жыл бұрын

THANK YOU> I could not keep listening to his inhumane intelligence. His complete denial of his own self WHILE ON A COLLEGE CAMPUS. So if nothing is real and nothing matters then why go to college? Why have a job? There are PLENTY of people that come to this hyper-intellectual conclusion and they MAN up and go live off the grid in nature. He better never desire to be in a romantic relationship because that will destroy all of his worldviews.

@geness9676

2 жыл бұрын

@@idkybily Indeed, very true 👍

@codyboudreau2838

2 жыл бұрын

They prefer the darkness because their deeds are evil.

@Rapturo_to_YESHUA

2 жыл бұрын

I would've asked him: *If we're put together by mindless "chance", then how do you know your thoughts can be relied upon to come up with the belief that God does not exist?* 😆 Atheism = lost. Plain and simple. They're truly willfully ignorant of the truth because they do not want to be held morally accountable to God. As Paul wrote: professing themselves to be wise, they became fools. Now my original post concerning the last guy in the video, if anyone's interested just to have as some ammunition for a future discussion with someone else: The atheist cannot trust their memories, yet they're so sure God doesn't exist? They're just confused. They claim that history is subjective, yet act like "science" is objective?! If man is subjective in thought, then how is "science" (what *man* observes through our subjective minds) therefore *objective?* Uh oh! So according to him, he cannot even trust science then! Now what? I know: they're lost without God. If the fish in the fish bowl cannot see or understand anything outside of the fish bowl, would the fish be correct in claiming that humans cannot exist because the fish cannot see or comprehend a human? This is basically what atheists do: "I cannot sense God, therefore God doesn't exist."

@idkybily

2 жыл бұрын

@@Rapturo_to_YESHUA Absolutely fantastic logical reasoning. TYSM. Praise God!

You don't need to read every single religious document to come to the conclusion which one is right. That would be like saying you must have a relationship with every single woman to know the one you married is the right woman. When you find the truth, you know its the truth. The Scriptures are living and breathing words unlike any other text. When someone rejects them, it is due to the state of their heart, mind, spirit and the influence of people around them. Just as Jesus taught, some seed falls on rocky ground, thorny ground, and fertile ground.

@lightworker4512

2 жыл бұрын

True. Yet what resonates as truth to one person may not resonate the same to another. If you were born Muslim and raised with the Koran in Saudi Arabia, you would be Muslim. If you were raised an Orthodox Jew, the Torah would resonate as truth. People are diverse and see the world through their own lens.

@mmorphy4258

2 жыл бұрын

@@lightworker4512 Very true. If born to a Muslim family, I would "grow-up Muslim". But the fact is that it is our responsibility to question and put to the test all knowledge and beliefs. Many people are taught the wrong things and have to unlearn and relearn that which is objectively true. We all have a conscious, and it is up to us to use it and come alive to the truth. God. and how he revealed himself through scriptures and most importantly Jesus Christ and His revelation.

@lightworker4512

2 жыл бұрын

@@mmorphy4258 I was brought up Jewish and had a Bar Mitzvah. I was never ever taught to question my faith and look elsewhere. Neither are Muslims , Hindus or other faiths. Most people are focusing on existing in this world, paying their bills and supporting their family. Does it seem just to you that just because you were born into a Jewish, Muslim or Hindu family and honored your faith that you should be sent to eternal Hell because you didn’t look at Christianity? There are 7.9 billion people on the planet, 2.6 billion are Christian. What does it say about a God that would send 5. 3 billion people in one generation purely because they didn’t take the responsibility to look at other religions and make the right choice? That would make Satan look like an angel compared to God. Understand, Genesis is a metaphor for how mankind came to be in this world of contrast. The Old Testament are stories. Abraham through Moses never existed. It is myth but it is powerful and provides understanding of man’s understanding of himself, God and his environment. The NT corrupted the myth of the OT ( especially Paul) and took information from ancient religions. They also converted to Rome, making the sabbath on Sunday ( Sun Day) Divinity is real, Creator is real, but the Creator energy does not have a human consciousness. The consciousness of the Creator is beyond the human ego

@lightworker4512

2 жыл бұрын

@@mmorphy4258 kzread.info/dash/bejne/eIV4x5qSaaWofdI.html. And she would spend eternity in Hell just because she was born and raised Jewish. How many Christians take the responsibility to learn and study the Tanakh in Hebrew ( to understand the correct translation) and the Talmud (the 5000 page commentary on the Torah)? How many Christians have studied the Quran? Answer is very few. Yet, Christians who do not immerse themselves in other belief systems expect people of other beliefs to not only read the gospels and believe that Jesus is the only Savoir or the consequences is eternal damnation in Hell. It is quite obvious that religion is man made.

@mmorphy4258

2 жыл бұрын

@@lightworker4512 Religion is man-made, but God is not. The only solution to our sin is God's mercy. God is just, and all those who have never heard the Gospel of Jesus Christ will be judged accordingly just like those who have. Jesus Christ's sacrifice is the way God the Father gave us to be justified, sanctified and forgiven. It is a free gift anyone can take part in. Your name must be written in the Lamb's Book of Life for you to enter Heaven. We are made in God's image making us accountable for the evil we do. You MUST respond to Jesus Christ and his wonderful news. The truth which is the Gospel of Jesus Christ will set you free in this life, right now. Hell is God's judgment on evil. I thank God he punishes evil and wickedness and will in his timing destroy all evil. There will be no more. The thing is our standard of what is good and evil is so pathetic. But with God, any sin is too much sin. No liar, no thief, no adulterer will inherit the Kingdom of God. Please, soften your heart to the scripture and pray and repent to God. Ask Jesus to show you just how real He is.

“I am a determinist” >continues on to spew chemically pre-determined gobbledygook

@RS54321

Жыл бұрын

And stuff he most likely heard in his progressive uni courses.

The first young adult felt like he showed that there is no God. What he merely explained was only the PROCESS of science. He talked as of science is God. Science is a branch of knowledge. Scientists only discover new knowledge on things, but who or why or the origin of things, science can't make em from scratch. I hope he'll come to his senses one day.

@hasone1848

2 жыл бұрын

I disagree, the first young adult used the facts of science to show how ridiculous cliff's position is. Cliff was ignoring every thing he said.

@lightworker4512

2 жыл бұрын

@@hasone1848 I agree with you. Cliff also has no knowledge of neuroscience. The old and New Testament are myths, that is obvious to the unprogrammed mind.

@Drewster4545

2 жыл бұрын

@@lightworker4512 and you do? Seriously asking because neuroscience doesn’t define what love is. Just because certain chemicals goes off all that’s shows is the process but not the meaning. They are still figuring out what exactly causes head over heels love.

@Drewster4545

2 жыл бұрын

@@hasone1848 I like the first kid he was very intellectually honest and had good points but I still feel Cliff answered him for the most part.

@lightworker4512

2 жыл бұрын

@@Drewster4545 yes I do. Neuroscience plays a role along with hormones. But greater than that is your Innate Creator Source within you is melding with the Creator Source of the other. There is no greater heads over heels love. The Creator Source within you is a Love unlike any human emotion. To that end, God is Love, is Light which is why there is no Hell. Darkness cannot enter the Sun and evil cannot enter Heaven. It is our unique Creator Source within us that returns to the Creator, our flawed humanity returns to dust

The real tragedy in life is not that God refuses to reveal himself to humanity, but that, God has indeed revealed himself to humanity and people still choose to go their own ways.

@theoskeptomai2535

2 жыл бұрын

In what manner has this god you've mentioned revealed itself to humanity?

@GraftedOliveBranch

2 жыл бұрын

@@theoskeptomai2535 In many ways, including in the form of Jesus Christ.

@theoskeptomai2535

2 жыл бұрын

@@GraftedOliveBranch What is the "form of Jesus Christ"?

@saintpaulofyoutube4416

2 жыл бұрын

@@GraftedOliveBranch here we go again. Theo Skeptomai is asking questions that can never be answered to his satisfaction. What a fool

@GraftedOliveBranch

2 жыл бұрын

@@saintpaulofyoutube4416 Indeed. I'm tired of his stupidity and lack of discernment.

I am a muslim and must say Cliff is amazing and i have learnt a lot from him. May God bless him and reward him for trying to bring people closer to our loving God Ameen

@1mantisco

2 жыл бұрын

Because Muslims believe we have been created too

@generalroro21

2 жыл бұрын

You have to believe in Jesus Christ and follow him please turn to him he was the messiah not a prophet

@saullopez3780

Жыл бұрын

We’re studying at church of what Muslims believe about Issa (Jesus Christ) and its really fascinating that there’s a whole culture that believes a lie

@afsar_gunner5271

Жыл бұрын

@@saullopez3780 We love Jesus just as much as Mohammed and other prophets.

@saullopez3780

Жыл бұрын

@@afsar_gunner5271 do you believe Jesus is the Son of God? If so then he is not on the same level as mohammed or any other prophet mentioned in any “holy text”

The combination of intellect and stubbornness in that one person is astounding.

God bless Cliff for having the patience to dialogue with these young students. What a gift from God. After watching these videos I thank God that He led me to a private Christian University 30 years ago.

@laurasaldana5588

2 жыл бұрын

Patience? You can see him get frustrated. That’s why the guy went behind him to try to stop him. I just wish he’d answer the questions fully instead of turning the question around back to the student.

@markmantooth7693

2 жыл бұрын

@@laurasaldana5588 Food for thought of an analogy - Have you ever tried to describe with accuracy the color of pink to a man/women who was born blind? I imagine that it takes love and patience to answer a question that he will never FULLY comprehend. Therefore the blind individual will have to have faith and understanding to comprehend what you are telling him is true. It will take time and many interactions to appreciate a color that has not been observed by the man/women who has been born blind.

@Ameydusa1

Жыл бұрын

I love his father like presence

@JohnjOcampo

6 ай бұрын

​@@laurasaldana5588 The robot wouldn't let him answer in the beginning and kept interrupting him. Even bots like you would get frustrated with someone so smug.

1st guy is outta there😵‍💫…all we can do is pray for him, he Seems to not listen to anything and thinks he knows everything, but what he knows is what satan has manipulated him to know….the 2nd guy seems promising and hopefully he makes good on his promise so he can dive into the word with Cliffe…Cliffe is a great teacher when it comes to the word, hopefully that boy is serious & sincere so the holy spirit can reveal itself to him so he can start seeking Jesus on his own time

@chasegarner4674

3 ай бұрын

The 2nd is still annoying. Especially talking with his hands, he seems like he thinks very highly of himself lol

That first guy thought he won. Cliffe says people would want to obey God in heaven because of God's presence. Then he says it's not a free will. He doesn't know that all the people that are going to be in heaven are those who want to obey God.

@juanfumero6951

2 жыл бұрын

Sadly there are many like him who believe themselves to be wise in their own eyes but are fools in God’s.

@lightworker4512

2 жыл бұрын

@@juanfumero6951 in Gods eyes, there are no fools, only love. Ancient man humanized God

@juanfumero6951

2 жыл бұрын

@@lightworker4512 There are many foolish men in God’s eyes. It doesn’t mean he doesn’t love them, but he wants to turn them from their foolishness.

@lightworker4512

2 жыл бұрын

@@juanfumero6951 no. God does Not have a human consciousness. Scripture was written by man and believed God thinks like Man. This is why there are so many religions and so many denominations. Everything was channeled through the mind of man but Mankind cannot wrap his limited finite mind to understand the limitless eternal Creator. If the Creator is anything, he is unconditional love.

@juanfumero6951

2 жыл бұрын

@@lightworker4512 Maybe your god doesn’t, but the true and living God does. The king of kings and lord or lords is alive and is not just some vague impersonal energy.

Wow the mind of modern college students is frightening to think that people think like that young man. It shows why we’re in the position we’re in right now in this world. Holy moly that man’s thinking is crazy

totally patient, patience from the Holy Spirit

@icrushchildrensdreams4556

2 жыл бұрын

@@darkeen42 where?

Being an intellectual is a concept. This person proves it. Cliffe, how can you do it?

Father Continue to POUR your spirit upon Brother Cliffe and lead more souls to salvation in Jesus mighty name

I thank God for making me a simple believer in the gospel of Jesus Christ. How do these people handle life without God.

@PaxettreugaDei

Жыл бұрын

Hahahahaha amen

@MoreOrMore1

8 ай бұрын

Legitimately it just so clear to me

Dear Sir, about 30yrs ago I listened to you speak on the Quad at CSU in Ft Collins Co. I admired your bravery but I disrespectfuly argued with you, I said ugly things. I was a different guy then. Forgive me....and God Bless You.

@geness9676

2 жыл бұрын

Mark, I admire you for Admitting you messed up, it may not always feel good, but admitting you were wrong is so powerful, it's almost like a bolt of lightning. Now you have the Best gift, Spiritual Freedom from past transgressions. Hoping he reads your message. 🙏 You're off to a good start . God bless you. 🙏

@geness9676

2 жыл бұрын

Whoever reads this, please.. hit the thumbs up 👍 so his message won't get lost in the thousands. He might get lucky and get a response from Mark.

@markperkovich992

2 жыл бұрын

@@geness9676 I try to confess and repent of every sin. Seems like "forgive me Father" is always there.

@CyberEvanG

Ай бұрын

@@markperkovich992 Hi Mark, Thank you for appologizing to Cliffe. It sounds like he became a key part of your testimony for how you eventually came to believe in the existence of God, and even probably accepting Jesus as your Lord and Savior. The Lord has forgiven you, and you have taken this step to publically communicate your apology on this video. If you desire to pursue reaching out to Cliffe further, you could contact the church listed at the end of the video via email, snail mail, or phone as they may be able to reach him. Whatever you "disrespectfully argued" with Cliffe about 30ish years ago, it gave opportunity for others present to hear both sides of the issue--some may have been more persuaded toward your original ideas, or to his statements. Obviously you were not preaching Christ back then, and arguments that lead people away from the faith are dangerous--but I believe God reached out to those wrongly influenced back then--and has been working in their lives over these past 30 years too. Perhaps maybe something about the following verse will bring you peace: Philippians 1:18 "But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice. Yes, and I will continue to rejoice". Hopefully the Lord used your original argumentativeness back at Quad at CSU to help others present during that discussion to begin their own quest for truth--and prompt more Christians to stand firm in their faith and actually study and learn how to defend their faith against intellectual criticism. I am sure the church which posted this video--as well as Cliffe--would be very interested in hearing your testimony for how the Lord spiritually used Cliffe's words way back then, along with other people and events over the course of your life, to eventually draw you to the point where you are at now in your life spiritually. Each person's spiritual journey is so unique. May the Lord also equip you to reach out to others who had a mindset similar to the one you had 30 years ago. I am sure the story of your testimony for how you were eventually brought to faith will be a powerful tool to help free others. God bless you.

There is suffering because it separates us from the things of this world and draws us closer to God 🙏✝️☯️🌹

Every philosophy 101 student, comes to debate Cliff straight from the exam room

@user-mi3hr9xg1t

2 жыл бұрын

The most cringe is when they think they are intellectually smart and think they can bargain philosophy and use terms in passing, which only shows how little they actually understand the topic they've come to debate

@lightworker4512

2 жыл бұрын

The students win. They are still rational

@rowmon7578

Жыл бұрын

I think it’s because they are full of pride.

@slim61884

Жыл бұрын

Exactly!

@captainsalty5688

Жыл бұрын

Seriously lol

It always amazes me how people belief in other things or make up only to disbelief in a God that requires moral standards which are actually for our good

This kid is good and has a point, both side answered well and this is amazing discussion

GOD so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son , that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish but have everlasting life 🙌

@lightworker4512

2 жыл бұрын

Nope. God isn’t evil where he saves those that believe and eternal hell for billions of Hindus Muslims, et. In Judaism, everybody is born saved. Accepting one truth and being punished with eternal hell if you don’t, is mankind speaking, not God. 6 million innocent Jews that died in the Holocaust would be in eternal Hell. That is irrational and you can have no soul to believe such fiction.

@larzman651

2 жыл бұрын

@@lightworker4512 thanks for your ton of opinion that made 0 sence.

@lightworker4512

2 жыл бұрын

@@larzman651 yes, makes 0 sense that innocent nonbelievers will perish. Thanks

@larzman651

2 жыл бұрын

@@lightworker4512 nobody is innocent we have all sinned and broken GODS commandments.

@paulinhisprime8440

2 жыл бұрын

@@lightworker4512 point me to the a perfect person without sin and I can believe what your saying. I only know of one who is perfect and without sin and only one who has risen from the dead. I'll keep my faith in him and his teachings. Thank you. Saved by grace through faith. Not because it's unbelievable that God would condem 6m Jews. That's God's business, not ours.

I’ve been watching these videos for years. They are both inspiring and infuriating. Inspiring to see that a belief in Jesus as a savior is intellectually sound. Infuriating because a lot of these kids aren’t intellectually sound. But that is why they need to be challenged as do I to think about our world view.

@georgedoyle7971

2 жыл бұрын

Well said!!

@georgedoyle7971

2 жыл бұрын

“I’m a determinist” “Your completely invalidating the whole of neuroscience if you don’t believe I can make you fall in love with a lamp post by giving you an electric shock” ???!! Everyone has a right to believe what they want and everyone including theists have the right to find it totally ridiculous and literally “self” refuting. This is beyond ironic and absurd!! He was complaining that Cliff is “invalidating” neuroscience for not believing he could be made to fall in “love” with a lamppost when under a strictly reductive determinism, atheism or philosophical naturalism Cliff is just doing what Cliff is “determined” to do. That statement was comedy gold and was literally “self” refuting!! Similarly, the irony is that this student couldn’t square the belief in an absolute ontological ground of reality/God with all the “evil” in the world but he’s a “determinist” and under determinism evil can’t possibly exist anyway without free will so this argument is a red herring, an irrelevancy fallacy and a non sequitur!!. It’s a contradiction in terms. This is hilarious and the double irony is that under a strictly reductive determinism, atheism or philosophical naturalism this students claims to the rational and “moral” high ground are nothing more than a cosmic accident and nothing more substantive than the delusions of an overgrown amoeba with illusions of grandeur. Why should we take the “truth” claims of an overgrown amoeba with illusions of grandeur seriously? Why “ought” we take the truth claims of a chemical and biological robot seriously? A strictly reductive materialism, atheism or philosophical naturalism is a causally closed effectively complete system and truth, conscious agents, the prescriptive laws of logic, empiricism, science itself including values such as morals and ethics don’t exist under this “self” refuting world view as they are metaphysical presuppositions, that is transcendental categories that can not be proven, justified or grounded in a strictly reductive materialism atheism or philosophical naturalism that clearly excludes metaphysical realities!!. Equally, determinism itself, that is cause and effect, identity over time, the myth of the given, the one and the many are also metaphysical presuppositions that can not be proven, justified or grounded in a strictly reductive determinism/materialism, atheism or philosophical naturalism that clearly excludes metaphysical realities!! So the fact is that under this literally “self” refuting causally closed world view this students truth claims are nothing more than the brains user illusion of “self”. He is just brain chemicals and nothing more substantive than the science project of vinegar and baking soda bubbling over. Does the science project of vinegar and baking soda bubble over bravely when it claims it can make someone “fall in love with a lamppost”? Can the science project of vinegar and baking soda take the credit for its circular logic and self contradiction? Under a strictly reductive determinism/materialism, atheism or philosophical naturalism this “determinists” claims to the rational and moral high ground have no more “truth” value than leaves blowing in the wind as this “determinist” and the leaves are destined for the same place (The Fertiliser Pit). Furthermore, I’m not making any appeals to authority but according to the prominent humanist, doctor and neuroscientist professor Raymond Tallis… “There is something dodgy, of course, about the claim that an empirical science can address essentially metaphysical questions such as whether or not human freedom is real” (Professor Raymond Tallis). It speaks volumes that the neuroscientist professor Tallis does not come from a religious perspective. Equally, Tallis points out that… “Let us begin by giving all proper respect to what neuroscience can tell us about ourselves: it reveals some of the most important conditions that are necessary for behavior and awareness. What neuroscience does not do, however, is provide a satisfactory account of the conditions that are sufficient for behavior and awareness. ... The pervasive yet mistaken idea that neuroscience does fully account for awareness and behavior is neuroscientism, an exercise in science-based faith. ... This confusion between necessary and sufficient conditions lies behind the encroachment of “neuroscientistic” discourse on academic work in the humanities...” (Professor Raymond Tallis: neuroscientist). I rest my case!!

@georgedoyle7971

2 жыл бұрын

“I’m a determinist” “Your completely invalidating the whole of neuroscience if you don’t believe I can make you fall in love with a lamp post by giving you an electric shock” The fact is that determinism is a tautology and is literally a “self” refuting atheistic, nihilistic fantasy. Because strictly reductive determinists/materialists (free will deniers) want to remove the conscious agent from the picture of reality, undermining all human values and human rights. If you remove agency, that is free will and choice you remove all accountability and responsibility for evil and depraved rapists, murderers and those who get pleasure from committing genocide. The last thing we want to do is give these people an excuse for committing crimes against our families and children no matter how depraved and evil. Better for the strictly reductive determinist/atheist or philosophical naturalist to deny the mind and with it conscious agents, free will, choice, rationality, the prescriptive laws of logic, truth, science itself and more importantly values such as morals and ethics than to admit the soul/self. The irony is that the strictly reductive determinist/materialist, atheist or philosophical naturalist manifests the very dogmatism of which he accuses the religious believer, and in rationalizing it is willing to contemplate absurdities of which no religious believer has ever dreamed. Equally, it is impossible to falsify determinism because determinism can always say that what you did was also predetermined, such that every single instance confirms determinism (it is tautologous). A tautology is always true and therefore unfalsifiable therefore it is unscientific. The fact is that the nuances of objective morality will always be most hotly debated by those who want to justify evil and depravity. Furthermore, according to the Auschwitz survivor Viktor Frankl who was a psychiatrist and scientist (and survivor of two Nazi death camps) those who perceive humanity as nothing more than biological and chemical robots and determined machines are a danger to our families and our children. In Frankl's classic book, (The Doctor and the Soul) he stated : “If we present a man with a concept of man which is not true, we may well corrupt him. When we present man as an automaton of reflexes, as a mind-machine, as a bundle of instincts, as a pawn of drives and reactions, ... we feed the nihilism to which modern man is, in any case, prone. I became acquainted with the last stage of that corruption in my second concentration camp, Auschwitz. The gas chambers of Auschwitz the ultimate consequence of the theory that man is nothing but the product of heredity and environment--or, as the Nazis liked to say, "Blood and Soil." I am absolutely convinced that the gas chambers of Auschwitz, Treblinka, and Maidanek were ultimately prepared not in some ministry or other in Berlin, but rather at the desks and lecture halls of nihilistic scientists and philosophers." (Victor Frankl). Frankl’s words are sobering and should give us pause as we consider what we are teaching the next generation in our own sacred halls of learning. Are we teaching students that they are the product of their environment, not responsible for their actions? Are we teaching them to view good and evil not as absolutes, but as variables dependent upon one’s cultural norms? If so, we simply hurtling the next generation towards the Auschwitzes, Treblinkas, and Maidaneks of the 21st century!! “It is the charge against the main deductions of the materialist that, right or wrong, they gradually destroy his humanity; I do not mean only kindness, I mean hope, courage, poetry, initiative, all that is human. For instance, when materialism leads men to complete fatalism (as it generally does), it is quite idle to pretend that it is in any sense a liberating force. It is absurd to say that you are especially advancing freedom when you only use “free thought” to destroy free will. The determinists come to bind, not to loose. They may call their law the "chain" of causation. It is the worst chain that ever fettered a human being. You may use the language of liberty, if you like, about materialistic teaching, but it is obvious that this is just as inapplicable to it as a whole as the same language when applied to a man locked up in a madhouse. “ (G.K. Chesterton). I rest my case!

@georgedoyle7971

2 жыл бұрын

“Determinism” Falling in love with lampposts continued…. 1. Determinism is untrue because determinism relies on a structure of normativity which determinism itself rejects. It is circular and incoherent! 2. Determinism tries to place an object of mind as prior to mind. Denying the metaphysical relations between mind and reality which is impossible and incoherent. Therefore determinism is a false and incomplete theory of reality, existence and experience. 3. Determinism is incoherent and literally “self” refuting as it removes the conscious agent from the picture of reality and claims that our actions even our thoughts, logic and science itself are completely determined by nothing more than the motion of accidental, blind, mindless “matter” and the process of random atoms and brain chemicals creating the illusion of stable patterns and regularities. If this is true then why should we take the determinists claims seriously as their claims to the “truth” of determinism are also just an illusion determined by the same accidental, blind, mindless “matter” so we have no reason to believe their claims are valid and have coherence and meaning. Determinism undermines determinism. It’s self refuting and circular, . 4. There is also a very compelling moral argument for rejecting determinism but atheists who are desperate to prove determinism is true for God knows what reason are blind to the elephant in the room. Because if society actually took this philosophy seriously it could be used to remove all accountability and responsibility for our actions and criminals could use it as an excuse to justify any evil acts against our families and our children no matter how depraved. 5. Free will exists because the mere act of proving a determined event means that the person who you communicate the “proof” to could use their free will to do the opposite. So even if there appeared to be “evidence” we were determined the mere act of demonstrating said evidence for determinism creates an infinite regress of incommunicability as the supposed determined person can simply use their free will to do the exact opposite demonstrating free will exists and that determinism is an atheistic nihilistic fantasy . Furthermore, I think that the bereaved families of the victims of the holocaust including the bereaved parents of children who have been raped and murdered would beg to differ that free will does not exist. Determinists/atheists are basically claiming that the Nazis and these rapists and child killers were not accountable. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence!!. Atheists also could never “prove” with empirical science that people haven’t got free will because the fact is that science can’t “prove” anything as it is provisional and can only infer. ? It’s a constantly changing landscape regarding what (is) not what (ought) to be. Also atheists can’t “prove” why we “ought” to even take any of their claims seriously if they are nothing more than mindless “matter” with the illusion of free will and consciousness? The value placed on determinism as a truth claim is undermined by determinism as value is a metaphysical presupposition, that is a transcendental category that can not be proven, justified or grounded in a strictly reductive determinism, materialism, atheism or philosophical naturalism that clearly excludes metaphysical realities!! Furthermore, if anyone was ever able to create a super computer that could determine and “prove” the causes leading up to a particular event such as the exact point at which you were determined to pick up a simple glass of water and drink it, it undermines determinism. Because if you were able to tell someone that it’s foreordained or determined that they will, for example, pick up a glass of water in the next five seconds and drink it. They could simply just refuse to do so. In other words the statement “it was determined that you pick up this glass of water and drink it in the next five seconds and drink it” is incommunicable because it can not be spoken with out making a difference to the possibilities. Therefore the mere act of “proving” and communicating a determined action or event undermines determinism and proves free will is real. It creates an infinite regress of incommunicability!!

@damianbennett5329

Жыл бұрын

and who's fault is that? the pretend sky daddy?

He has the patience of a Saint

Going forward I'm adopting the ultra wide Cliffe-stance anytime I get into a discussion with an atheist.

The question he’s asking touches on a profound theological and philosophical debate about the nature of God, evil, and the purpose of creation. Different religious traditions and philosophical perspectives offer various explanations for why God might allow evil to exist and why humans are given free will. One perspective is that the ability to choose between good and evil is essential for humans to have meaningful relationships with God and with each other. Without the ability to choose, love, faith, and virtue would be meaningless. In this view, the existence of evil allows for the possibility of genuine moral growth and spiritual development. Another perspective is that the presence of evil is a necessary part of God's plan for creation, although the reasons for this are often seen as beyond human understanding. Some theologians suggest that the existence of evil is necessary for the universe to be a place of dynamic change and development, rather than a static and unchanging reality. Ultimately, the question of why God allows evil is one of the most challenging and enduring questions in theology and philosophy, and different religious traditions offer different answers based on their understanding of the nature of God and the purpose of creation. WE DON’T KNOW. Even Cliffe started out with saying that.

Unfortunate that the robot couldn’t listen

I absolutely love how you got dished a pile of rubbish and ended up being cheerful

We can chose if we want to stay in heaven but it is so good there and we will be so happy there, so it would be dumb to want to go to hell after that experience. So nobody would want to go away. There will be everything we ever wanted.

I think some people like to talk and listen to themselves, using big words yet stand for nothing. God bless you Cliff

Praying as you continue to lead this ministry. Praise God for leaders like you!

Thank you very much. This is tremendous!

Guys im a Christian but from the first debate a question popped up in my mind about free will, taking the analogy of the university: if you choose to frequent it you are subject to its rules which you can choose to follow or not and consequentially accepting to be responsible of the consequences. The same goes with God as Cliffe said: we can choose to be with God and follow him throughout our life or to stay far from him suffering the consequences even in the after life, every choice has consequences and you accept to live your life (which is a gift from God) free to choose knowing the rules of his universe. BUT if the person knowing the rules of the university chooses to not frequent it because he isn't interested in it or because he doesn't want to be subject to those rules they're free to choose like this. So, given the gift of life from God we are thrown automathically in the reality where we are subject to his rules without being able to willfully choose to do it or not. So under this scenario humanity doesn't have complete free will because its forced to be subject to those rules without the ability to choose to "frequent the university of life or not" to put it simply. It's more like being forced to choose between option A and B when maybe you don't even want to choose, you don't want to live life with it's consequences so why are you forced to? The explanation I gave myself (which is only SPECULATION) is that God doesn't deny existence to anyone: for those who want to benefit from the gift of life AND follow him spending eternity with him in heaven good for them, for those who want to benefit from the gift of life and NOT follow him he can't force them to so they willfully accept the consequences of it spending eternity far from him paying for their sin in hell. Now, for those that DON'T want to benefit from the gift of life being aware of the rules and of all God has done for them they thank him and politely refuse the gift by, say (EXAMPLE), commit suicide, they would return to a state of a complete non-existence just like before being born not "frequenting" life and thus not being subject to its rules and consequences. It's a structure that (conceptually) gives actual free choice to every being created by God of what to do with their gift willfully. It's only a theory I came up with to solve this personal issue, im no expert in theology nor phylosophy so if someone can enlighten me a bit more about this matter I would really appreciate it. God bless everyone ❤️✝️

God bless you and your sons faith and mission!

Free will. Evil. We wanted to be separated from God's will and this is what we get. This is us being "superior" this is us with our "own" morality. Greed pride and all ten commandments broken. It's so not complicated

@christoffesedao3579

2 жыл бұрын

Agreed. Unfortunately people cannot see greed in themselves. Most assume you have to murder or steal to be greedy or sinful. The young Asian man is evading a lot of reality and not taking a deeper look at himself and mankind in general.

@boltrooktwo

2 жыл бұрын

Can you imagine how amazing a culture and society would be if it was able to just keep within the boundaries of the commandments of Christ and express our ability to love, create, imagine, cultivate, and build?

@MATES2000803

2 жыл бұрын

@@boltrooktwo i can't imagine 100% how it's gonna be like but I'm pretty sure we are talking about heaven.

@boltrooktwo

2 жыл бұрын

@@MATES2000803 The vision helps us use our influence to create what little bit of heaven that we can around us. Life without good meaning and purpose is what so many people live in and helping them can be like throwing the bonds off the oppressed.

@MATES2000803

2 жыл бұрын

@@boltrooktwo i am 100% agreeing with you brother, God bless us 🙏

I don't think the first kid truly comprehend the concept of free will. There is definitely free will in heaven, people and angel beings in heaven WILLINGLY obey God and FREELY choose not to sin. If there is no free will in heaven then the fall of humankind and the birth of sin wouldn't even be possible in the first place because Lucifer himself will not choose to go against God and disobey Him. Goodness gracious, bless him.

@chriseasterly5142

2 жыл бұрын

He is a hard determinist. Basically we are moist robots in his worldview. So love, anger etc are just illusions.

First of all Thankyou so much for the wealth of information you bring to this channel, Absolutely love, you and your son are doing g a Great work, you have a gentle bit fierce tongue that’s so powerful, your breathing life into people 😊♥️ now as for his nonsense, if he spoke like that in a courtrooms around the world spoke like that to any judge they we be shaking there heads, and thinking, this guy could possibly be dangerous ! He denies a conscience ! , I say that with love to him, 😊

It's so amazing how these kids think or not think just wow

Thanks cliff these discussions are great

Praise The LORD

Thank you for the message God bless you and your family 💖💙🕊️🙏

11:45 - am I ear right when he said no one can control his emotion ?? Oh Lord, have mercy on people think like that otherwise this world will soon become a hell. May God bless Cliff for his wisdom and patience.

Cliff is so wise. Awesome job Cliff, seriously. 🤙🏼🔥

Keep up the awesome work! I'm praying for you all from here in the UK. May Jesus bless you and your loved ones and also to whoever maybe reading this.

Cliffe you are such an inspiration. That guy so much contradicts himself. How the heck can you not control your emotions???

im from taiwan the video really make me to more understand what i am beliveing thanks to all the work and the team behind ~ wish i can more understand english to more correctly use to my church and nation

Love what you’ve done through the years Cliffe. God bless you

@mekavio8231

2 жыл бұрын

did what, quoting iron age verses from man made books by religious fanatics ??? failed to have converted anyone ? failed to have provided evidence of this man made religion ??? haha, yeah.. he wasted alot of time

I LOVE YOU BROTHER AND MY FAITH IS STRONGER IF THAT WAS POSSIBLE...

11:55 i love how you can see Stuart sensing Cliffe is getting flustered a little and he ready to jump in lol. i love them.

You guys are amazing. I love your answers . I gotta remember to hit like 👍.

The patience that Cliff has is AMAZING!

Greetings Uncle Cliff, have a great day, we love your work and appreciate your thoughts provoking and open discussions.

@EmbracingTeReoMaori

2 жыл бұрын

@@darkeen42 good morning brother- perhaps, but from the content that is posted, I love watching, because this is what a discussion should be about. We've lost the art of this these days so it's refreshing for me to watch.

People suffer because we are looking for help from above, instead of doing all we can to help each other as Jesus recommended.

Thank you so much!

I work with 2 guys majoring in philosophy, and they are exactly like that first guy. It's tough to debate them because they are much better than me in philosophy. But I point out the ridiculousness their view entails. If there is no God, there is no love, there is no evil, you're only a moist robot with no choice, who can't even make a truth claim (including the claim your worldview is the right one), because you were determined to arrive at that "truth" claim.

The robot at the start would have a hard time, hypothetically speaking, in a criminal court of law trying to explain to a judge that he is a determinist and has no control over his behaviour as it is all a result of chemical reactions in his brain which caused him to commit an offence that he was ‘programmed’ to do. If that is true then the robot has to accept the judge is also naturally programmed to convict him and sentence him if all the evidence can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt and he is found guilty. Then the robot claims it is unfair and appeals the sentence. As soon as the robot says he disagrees with the judge his determinism argument is destroyed. When someone or something interrupts and overrides the robots ‘free will’ to simply walk away unpunished and threatens his freedom, social standing, finances and career prospects then as soon as the robot appeals the sentence he is acknowledging a moral predicament of right vs wrong justice. As long as the shoe is on the other foot it is okay for the robot but as soon as something affects it then it’s unfair or unjust 🤷‍♂️

@idkybily

2 жыл бұрын

HIGH FIVE! Really well synthesized! Thank you soooo much!

@jeffmcelroy5364

2 жыл бұрын

Keep responding and posting your thoughts etc. Very nice illustration you just used. Thanks

@yngclothing

2 жыл бұрын

Yea his answer to that is he doesn’t agree with crim justice… he was so dismissive to try to bolster his position. Just cause you don’t think it’s a good idea doesn’t get you off the hook

@geness9676

2 жыл бұрын

Well put together, Valuable piece of information. 👍

Thank you!

Probably one of my favourite debates

Proverbs 17:28 EVEN A FOOL THAT KEEPS HIS MOUTH SHUT IS CONSIDERED WISE!

Many thanks Cliffe. God bless you for explaining the absolute truth about our savior Jesus Christ. Amen

Perfect example of what happens to a person when God is removed from the public square. God bless all.

It is really good seeing men and women willing to actually stand and boldly preach the Gospel. We need to pray fervently for such boldness and spiritual guidance.

If you think our biology and chemistry is what determines what we do then there's really no such thing as right or wrong

@dogelife7901

2 жыл бұрын

Motal relativism is impossible to support. The young man does a poor job borrowing morals and then lives in a fantasy land rather than believing in God.

@ZekeMagnar

2 жыл бұрын

@@dogelife7901 Yea', and part of that fantasy was believing that he can reach an ought from an is. Just because evolution happened, doesn't mean that we absolutely have to follow suit. If that were the case, then let's bring natural selection in the mix and end the lives of all weaker people, since that's what happens during the evolutionary process (in terms of physical elements, I mean). I highly doubt he would be intellectually consistent by agreeing to that, but when one part of the process fits his pre-programmed arguments, he's all game.

@dogelife7901

2 жыл бұрын

@@ZekeMagnar it's the evolutionist catch22. They both want it to be true, yet have to dismiss it because it would mean human life, or any moral has zero value (evolutionarily) so they will default to "we've evolved beyond that" which is a faith statement.

@ZekeMagnar

2 жыл бұрын

@@dogelife7901 Exactly. They want to treat it like a buffet. Pick what you want and discard the rest. But if evolution alone is the standard by which they measure "morals", then "we've evolved beyond that" is an abandoning of that standard and, as you said, turns into faith. Not only that, why can't a "tyrant" come along and evolve past the "positive" aspect of evolution and discard the idea of human flourishing? They would have no answer for Hitler or anyone in his position. If they get to pick and choose, then everyone else gets to pick and choose as well. They can't have it both ways.

@ZekeMagnar

2 жыл бұрын

@@darkeen42 You wrote, "just because a Ford mustang is made out of metal and rubber and plastic doesn't mean wrecking a mustang is the same thing as wrecking a pile of metal." It is the exact same thing. The thing that you are wrecking is not the same (since one is a car and the other pieces of metal and rubber), but gluing the parts together wouldn't magically change a single thing in terms of any "rightness" or "wrongness" about what one would do with either. So where exactly does morality come into play? How do you tie "rightness" or "wrongness" to the cosmos when referring to the wrecking of a car? If someone found enjoyment in building and wrecking cars, would they be wrong on an objective level? If so, how do you substantiate that claim in a way that is independent of your own mind? I understand that you are using this as an example, but the same applies towards humans as well. If you think that ending someone's life is "bad" and someone else thinks it's "good", who's right? Who's wrong? And more importantly, why? Again, I'm not looking for opinions here. I need you to show me how what you say is truth BEYOND what you think. You wrote, "I guess some people need the Bible" Act like I'm an atheist (far be it from me). Because believe it or not, honest atheists have made the same exact claims I have. They've admitted that morals are purely subjective and that objective morals do not exist. We don't need to bring God into the equation to illustrate the moral bankruptcy of your worldview.

“If he just haul off and smack him that’s just my electromagnetic reaction going off in my head “ this had me rolling 😂😂 God bless brother

I love your channel and your work. God bless you

Lord, please bless Cliffe and his son. I do Not have the patience for this. I'm very irritated just listening, as there's a lot to argue against, but no amount of words can be rid of Cognitive Dissonance.

I feel I have the answers for these questions but I wouldn’t be able to answer them in a proper way to help them get closer to God. Like for the first question. Why allow evil? For His glory. If God made a heaven on earth to start with there would be no issues (the reality they want with no evil nor suffering is only in heaven) but if it went that way we wouldn’t know God. We wouldn’t know of how much grace He has for us and why we deserve punishment everyday. This way we see we do no deserve salvation yet his grace provided it for us. This way he became man and took all the punishment that we should have taken. That’s Love right there. Allllll we know of Hod we wouldn’t know if it didn’t pan out the way it did. Then he said there’s no such thing of evil. Ummm yes everything that God doesn’t want us to do is evil. 🧐

@Brandon-to9vp

2 жыл бұрын

I think Evil is allowed to give humans that choice, basically humans created evil

This was a solid back and forth. Both challenging one another with good points. Cool to see how the crowd began to pick sides and chime in. Bless everyone here challenging their God given gift of intellectual thought.

Love your videos, trust me if I lived around that area I would be there

thank you cliffe 🙏🏽

Always learning but never able to come to a knowledge of truth. - 2 Timothy 3:7

whilst i like intellectual debate, nothing beats the Holy Spirit - makes the Faith all the more real!

@theoskeptomai2535

2 жыл бұрын

Are you asserting that this 'Holy Spirit' is a reality?

@paulc7190

2 жыл бұрын

@@theoskeptomai2535 absolutely.

@theoskeptomai2535

2 жыл бұрын

@@paulc7190 Have you ever _observed_ this Holy Spirit?

@peterberr3888

2 жыл бұрын

@Theo Skeptomai ..Virginia saw it with her 6th sense. What do you say?

Great video. Amen. 2024. Texas. God is good.

there is free will in heaven but the URGE to sin will no longer be felt with all God's glory and beauty surrounding you inside and out.

Wow that second didn’t even follow is own steps for determining if a document is historically accurate🤣. I’m surprised he was honest,that destroyed his whole argument.

Hey Cliffe, have you considered doing a live KZread stream for your Sunday services? I’m sure plenty of us would be watching.

@malikbennett7

2 жыл бұрын

i agree

@MATES2000803

2 жыл бұрын

+1

@paulinhisprime8440

2 жыл бұрын

You can find cliff preach every Sunday at Grace community church in New Canaan Connecticut. Look it up.

@adamc7537

2 жыл бұрын

@@paulinhisprime8440 Yes, I live across the country though. Hopefully one day I can make it there.

@paulinhisprime8440

2 жыл бұрын

@@adamc7537 the church Livestreams every Sunday I think at 10am eastern. I watch every Sunday. I live in California, so I watch their service when I get up then attend my own church.

Cliff is the best!

@mbgrafix

2 жыл бұрын

Indeed, I too enjoy listening to Cliffe, as well as John Lennox and Frank Turek.

lol I find it very funny how easy it is to confront the logic of know it all sophomores. We can always learn more. Cliff is very patient and nice with these kids. Most if not all of these kids have not even read the Gospels let alone any other religious book. They regurgitate their professors or social media content that stroke their bubbles world view. I think you do a great job not bursting that bubble and being considerate of them.

I would argue and say its not easy to witness to people. Even if Cliffe was to lose track and be frustrated at people who refuse to read scripture. He's trying to save people.

@angru_arches

2 жыл бұрын

Usually my impulse is to crush people intellectually especially when they come in hot and full of hubris and smug...but boy Cliff has got that gift of patience and humility to go back and forth with them. I'm sure if asked he'd tell that it wasn't always like that, that his frustrations maybe got the better of him when he started his ministry but, man, I see my ideal attitude towards arrogant antagonism in him.

In my life i preached to my family no where else. I've frozen going outside family. I posted Christian information on Facebook.

@stephen1774

2 жыл бұрын

Spread The Gospel on as many you tube channels as possible.Under our apostle Paul’s ministry,today we are only saved by BELIEVING / Trusting The Gospel of Jesus Christ,1 st Corinthians Chapter 15 verse 1-4.Jesus Christ died on the cross for our sins, was buried, and rose again on the third day.Jesus Christ’s Shed Blood was / is payment for all of our sins forever once you believe this plan of salvation with your heart.

@dogelife7901

2 жыл бұрын

Just follow Jesus with your heart and people will take notice. Study the Bible and the truth reveals itself to you and reshapes your wisdom and ability to speak.

@geness9676

2 жыл бұрын

Keep going 💪 Keep reading your Bible. That's where the real knowledge comes from.

Some people still haven't figured it out that, for the most part, we are the cause of our own suffering.

Great job, Cliff!

This was the 1st time I've seen Stuart close the video. I wonder if he will follow in his dad's footsteps and continue to dialogue with collage students on campuses. Don't get me wrong, it appears that Cliffe has many years to go.

Our consciousness is deeply connected and rooted to our physical nature, its a apart of who we are. While it is possible to mess with your brain to make you fall in love with someone. That doesn't mean naturally, how our brain functions is all predetermined. I was never chemically altered or experimented on to love my wife, it was a choice. Even today it was a choice. I am not denying the neuroscience and how we can be controlled neurologicaly but just because we are capable of being controlled doesn't mean we are controlled. Our electrons and neurons firing around only metabolically shows what's happening to us. They happen so quick that it is in real time. The same way that if we analyze the nervous system within any part of the body. We can see the electrical pulses go through the joints and nervous system, causing the joint to move the way it does. That doesn't mean the joint was predetermined to move. The person wanted to move, chose to move, and made themselves to move. The electrical pulses in the nervous system around the joint only metabolically shows how that happened. This is the problem with SOME extreme evolutionists. Sometimes their evolution makes us seem like we're nothing more than beastly, animalistic, unthinking, drones. Also thr young man was right at the beginning it is possible to have free will without wanting to choose to do evil. Infact that's how Adam and eve were before the fall. They chose to disobey God. It gave them the knowledge of ethics, they became accountable for everything they would do from now on. Evil entered their capability, their mind, and they became fallen. God promised them that they would die and eventually they did. In heaven, when we are made a new we will be like Adam and eve before the fall. Perfect, still having free will, but without any evil or sin within us and without the capability of committing evil or sin, sin and evil being erased from our minds. To put it simple, God did make us originally without sin, we put it into ourselves and now God will set it back to how it originally was before we fell. We made the mess, God will clean it up. God also gave us free will in the first place so that we can choose whether we wanted to remain evil and sin free or if we wanted sin to be a part of us. We chose to want evil and sin to be a part of us.

@hamster4618

2 жыл бұрын

Is that so? Because isn't it about your devotion to the supposed god? You can do pretty much anything, murder a thousand people, trample on others harming them for everyday of your life, if only you "repent" at the correct moment, and you're good to go to heaven. On the other hand some lovely woman who has helped others, taken in homeless kids, spending her savings to help them, will end up in hell for not believing in God. Or so I've been told by a number of believers. Seems somewhat odd to me.

@bonnie43uk

2 жыл бұрын

@@hamster4618 Excellent point Ham. Yes, this whole thing about being moral because God imbued us with morality is flawed on that basis alone, .. eg:, you could rape, murder, torture someone, then, at a later date, *genuinely* accept Jesus as your savior, and according to Christian doctrine, he *will* forgive you, and you will spend eternity in heaven, so not only have you inflicted terrible pain and agony upon another person, you've escaped human justice, but for asking for forgiveness to God, you're also being rewarded... forever. As you said, it does indeed seem somewhat odd.

@hamster4618

2 жыл бұрын

@@bonnie43uk so it's not about being moral, it's about devotion.

@bonnie43uk

2 жыл бұрын

@@hamster4618 it would appear to be so Sir yes. Indoctrination plays a big part I think aswell.

@tuttuts560

2 жыл бұрын

👏

You could give the argument that God allows us free will to acknowledge good and evil and learn which one is most beneficial. Like the act of choosing good over evil is what he wants us to learn, but it takes multiple steps to do so. Especially for us. Like how he owns everything and he expects us to have the urge to want to give back to him, even though it's already his.

I’m a Christian pastor, and young man at the beginning of the video made a good point worth discussion: why couldn’t God have just made a man and woman at the beginning of time with a free will, but not the desire to carry it out. That’s how Cliff describes heaven which I think he’s right. So why couldn’t have he created Adam and Eve that way? Here’s my response: though Adam and Eve were perfect and without sin in the garden, they were infantile in their faith and relation to God. Yes, they were created as adults, but they were spiritually immature. When we get to heaven, we will have the free will to choose evil but not desire it because we’ve grown up in Christ, being as He is. Jesus in the garden of Gethsamanee dealt with this very thing. He was mature in his desire to please God, something Adam and Eve weren’t yet. Hence, Jesus willingly laid down his life of his own will, aligning with the will of the Father. As fallen creatures in a fallen world, we are in the process of maturing in Christ. We’re trained and chastened here on earth by suffering and evil that we might see evil as fruitless, reject it, receive Christ, grow in faith, and become one with the will of God and with Christ upon death. St. Irenaeous’s view of Adam and Eve is actually very helpful in this. I would’ve loved to see Cliff’s response to him, but I think what I described is the counter point to his question

I never understood this kind of thing. That last guy came up to Cliffe, started the conversation, then immediately acted like he was forced to be there. What?

@chriseasterly5142

2 жыл бұрын

Just wanted to argue to argue. Didn’t like what Cliff was saying but doesn’t have any counter arguments.

It's amazing to me how this atheist protests God but has to use God's language in order to protest him. He's even using words like, "evil, good, bad.." All the while he doesn't believe what he is protesting. amazing.

For the young man saying you can’t control your emotions, he is correct. We cannot be happy or sad on command. But we can control our actions and that is part of how we love. Christ displayed that in the Garden of Gethsemane and on the cross. He loved us enough to pay for our sins even though He felt like running away. Post-script: God did make human with a predisposition to obey: Adam. He willfully disobeyed and now we inherit the sinful consequences of his choice.

Amazing again!!!!