Who else came directly from MV?

@bhavinmehta1490

Жыл бұрын

I did lol! Love Derek’s channel and all the scholars whether I agree with them or not, trying to be objective and just enjoy the content (:

@panninggazz5244

Жыл бұрын

Me

@zigzagzaag

Жыл бұрын

🙋

@evereststevens5408

Жыл бұрын

Namaskaar

@CheddarBayBaby

Жыл бұрын

Me

Well, color me tickled pink to witness erudite scholars such as yourself, Dr. Monger, taking the bold step of sharing their knowledge with the masses, making it more easily accessible. Your tale was truly an epic masterpiece, leaving me hungering for more. Let us hope that your inspiring example will serve as a clarion call, spurring a multitude of others to come forward with their own epic sagas!

@panninggazz5244

Жыл бұрын

Snap. I used the term “tickled pink” twice over the last eight hours. I don’t recall using it for decades. Anyway, this is an aside from the topic. But it tickled me pink that I read it here just now! Love me some coinkydinks!

@cognitiveblues

Жыл бұрын

@@CRoadwarrior why do you call his scholarship" making wild, speculative comparisons"? what is wild and seculative of what he said? are you a Christian?

@chroniclesoflucifer

Жыл бұрын

Yes, more plz!! Whats next? Possibly Utnapishtim vs Noah?

@TheGreatAgnostic

Жыл бұрын

If you can cite any scholars who have peer reviewed works suggesting there is no relationship between these works, I will give that a fair hearing.

I've heard people refer to this myth. But no one has ever taken the time to quote it and show the parallels. This is excellent. Thank you for your effort.

@Biblemonger

Жыл бұрын

Thanks!

@phillipstroll7385

Жыл бұрын

No offense, but you could have read the text yourself and made the comparisons for yourself. Why do you wait for others to tell you their opinions? Don't get me wrong; I enjoy these type of channels as much as anyone else, but I do read the texts for myself too form my own opinions. Otherwise, you merely mirror other people. You are not your own person if you do not think for yourself.

@TheGreatAgnostic

Жыл бұрын

There is validity to both points. I prefer audio content like this as I'm a busy dad who can't read as much as I'd like, so unpacking from experts is valuable

@danielpaulson8838

Жыл бұрын

@@phillipstroll7385 There are a million things from antiquities story telling culture. No one can read them all. FE Peer sounds like a great guy who thanked someone for sharing their research. You're basically saying what now? Your ignorance is incredible as is your arrogance. Offense intended, hero.

@Stanley-vq3hc

8 ай бұрын

That’s the difference between a PHD my friend ❤

You’re off to a spectacular start, Dr. Monger! This is just the kind of point by point comparison of the OT text with other ANE texts that I am so interested in! Keep up the great work!

@Biblemonger

Жыл бұрын

Thanks!

@TBOTSS

Жыл бұрын

@@Biblemonger Why do you call Aspu and Tiamat, gods? When the text goes to great length to distinguish them from godhood and neither as the dingar for divinity?

@danielpaulson8838

Жыл бұрын

@@TBOTSS These two stories as well as hundreds or more others are framed on two templates. Creation and monomyth. They are based on template of the human life cycle but they have to be understood. These guys are on the outside. I have works up on it. It's deeper than any degree can show.

For the algorithm gods. Hail and be praised!

@panninggazz5244

Жыл бұрын

I am “like-ing” all the comments to praise the algorithm heads too.

Thank you for sharing your personal story on Mythvision. You did a brave thing and not all of us deconverts have the chance to share so openly as you have. I’m sorry to learn about all the trauma your wife experienced. I wish you and your family health and happiness.

wonderful explanations that are crafted to be understood by the lay person. many thanks!!!

Hi gang! Pleased to join this new channel with you all. 🎉 I've put this vid on loop to help kick-start your view count

This was very enlightening and a thrill to hear. Many thanks for all your years of study and your willingness to share it with us. We are the better for it!

This is what I want. Not a bunch of podcast whining about how our childhood indoctrination with toxic fairy tales crushed our souls but some real education on the subject with text excerpts and expert commentary. Overnight, this is my new KZread channel. Keep it coming!

@Hambone3773

Жыл бұрын

Yes. The whining is annoying.

Great first episode Dr. Monger. I've followed your journey when you were interviewed by Derek MythVision. I appreciate you sharing both your journey and your knowledge. I can see you are passionate about it and this was a wonderful dive into this subject matter. Please don't stop!

I am far from being a scholar, but I am curious and eager to learn. So thank you for sharing your knowledge.

I love these kinds of videos, although one quick correction: Tiamat originally didn't want to kill the other gods. She only raged out once her husband was killed. Interestingly enough she may also be a representation of the older goddess religions that existed before the bronze age collapse. Her murder at the hands of Marduk and the refashioning of the world through the desecration of her body is representative of the new patriarchal societies that were established as a result. It's neat to see how a lot of our "modern viewpoints" are shaped by the slow diffusion of beliefs throughout ancient history, leading up to today.

This is nice. This is a comparison that gets mentioned a lot in discussions about OT influences but you don't usually see it spelled out exactly what they mean. This is helpful. Good start to your channel.

Thank you Mythvision for bringing me here🙏🙏

Your presentation was very informative and easy to follow. Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge with us all. The world needs enlightenment concerning these things. I look forward to your future content. Well done!

I came over from Myth vision and I'm over 2 years into my deconstructing. You knowledge comes across in your videos but in a teachable way. Ty for all you are contributing. ❤

I had no idea of this. Delivered in a clear, calm and very accessible way. Thank you, Dr Monger!!

Fascinating video! Cheers to the future!

Really illuminating! I've heard the broad strokes of the comparison between Genesis and the Enuma Elish before (especially about the waters that seem to mysteriously exist in Genesis before creation), but I've never seen such a detailed comparison between sections of Genesis and the Enuma Elish. This provides much-needed context and insight into the relationship between the texts. Looking forward to more fascinating content like this - thank you!

Here from Mythvision. Thank you Dr Monger for sharing your wealth of knowledge.

I didn’t know how much I needed to see the genealogical tree until you used it. This, allowed me to follow the narration , and made the comparisons of the texts easier to comprehend. Awesome work.

Thank-you Dr. Monger I wish you the best on your new channel.

Here from Myth Vision, I cried my eyes out, so glad y'all made it home. What a trip.

Excellent work, Dr. Monger! ;) Great to see you putting this content out into the public. Very excited about future episodes!

I'm looking forward to all your next works. When on High

I'm just finishing a book on this story, and onto the flood account! I'm watching you on mythvision, it must have been scary for your family down in Mali. I'm trying to learn Sumerian, and writing it at the same time. Thanks to Dr.Josh for writing a book about it, it's not easy drawing the words, but being an artist I will master it! And yes higher education is very frowned upon, as I was set to go to art school right out of high school, but being a Jehovah's witness I couldn't as Constellation Pegasus said in a comment! I love learning too!

Very informative! Thank you! 😎

This is a great text comparison and in depth for those who never read Enuma Elis. 🙏

The parallels are significant indeed. Thank you for taking the time to parse this so diligently.

Wow. One of the best history lessons I have ever taken.

This is weirdly interesting . Thank you. Looking forward to more.

Great beginning!!! Can’t wait to see more of this type of content

Wow! I think I was subscriber 19 or 20 and now it's at 720 and counting... Not a bad start. Looking forward to your content. Greetings from Germany

Looking forward to more of your content. Thank you for sharing your knowledge.

please do more comparisons!! This was wonderful!

So excited for this journey with you❣️

Great stuff, didn't know that Tiamat was considered to be the origin of both the heavens and the earth in the Enuma Elish

Great start, Matt! Looking forward to future episodes.

Wow I love this content! It’s very helpful, especially learning about the stuff we thought was specific to Christianity, but find it was written way before in other civilizations. Derek you have done it again. Keep bringing on the scholars!! Thanks Matt👍🏼 subbed and will be listening.

Great content for your first video. Really looking forward to more.

I’m very excited about your content and looking forward to learning from you. Great presentation 🙌

Great video. It’s really interesting to see the relationship between ontologies and functions within the conceptual framework of both texts!

Apsu and Tiamat are likely referring to the salty water from beneath the Earth's crust and the fresh water that was within the oceans prior to the flood. If you understand the passage in the Old Testament "the fountains of the great deep broken up", it is referring to the pressure cracks that came to the surface of the Earth, which then formed the Mid Atlantic ridge, etc. If you look at the salt content level of the water from the Kola Superdeep Bore Hole, you will learn that it has twice the salt content of the Oceans. Also, the scientists that worked on drilling this hole speak of these pressure cracks throughout the Earth's crust. If you recall, it says in the Bible, it only rained for 40 days and nights, yet the water continued to rise for many more days (I think over 100 more days if I recall correctly). The water rose, because it was not from rain, but from underneath the Earth's crust. It actually shot with so much pressure, some of it went into space. Halley's comet for example, has also twice the salt content of our oceans. So these "gods" you are referring to likely have their understanding from the fresh water prior to the flood from above and beneath the Earth. This is my "guess".

A great start to your channel, a fascinating subject

1K. Congrats!!

@Biblemonger

Жыл бұрын

Thank you!!

I came right from Mythvision. Thanks for contributing to this community. Your work is important and will help former Christians deconstruct their indoctrination. Good stuff 👌 and thanks to Derek for the content.

Thank you for creating this channel, I found your presentation to be helpful to my personal exploration of the history of the bible. I did follow you from MythVision, and I look forward to following your channel. I enjoyed the content and your presentation style.

Brilliant! How amazing for a FIRST KZread video!!

Thank you for preparing this excellent comparison. It is just so much better if someone with the scholarly background like you clarifies with evidence what is pretty obvious if you are open to see it.

Great explanation! I really enjoyed it. Looking forward to watching your next videos :)

ta. look forward to more

Congratulations on over a thousand subs. I subbed while watching Myth Vision Podcast replay.

Thanks Dr Matt. A good topic to cover.

I love this stuff! Great channel name btw!

I can't believe this is your first video. I look forward to more.

please keep going with this channel! you're amazing.

The words in Genesis were “mellowed out.”I find that humorous. 😂 I just saw you on MythVision and have subscribed, Looking forward to learning a lot!

I’m here from seeing you on myth vision, great testimony and now this channel . Excellent 👍

thx, looking forward to more content!

Very interesting. I knew there was a parallel, but didn’t know the specifics. I’m glad I here at the beginning. Good luck from this point on. BTW found the channel through Deep Drinks channel. Also a new channel.

Great video. Interesting and thought-provoking content that is erudite, well articulated and succinct. Subscribed and looking forward to the development of your channel.

Thanks so much. Presented so well.

Solid presentation

Thank you so much for this journey of sharing your wealth of knowledge with us! Saw your interview on MV and was compelled to learn further. I spent most of my life as a Christian and a couple of years ago started really questioning everything I had been taught.

@robertmontoya8915

Жыл бұрын

You should stick with obtaining wisdom, not knowledge. The Bible is the most historically accurate document in the world. But most importantly Jesus taught the contemplative life is key. These are broken stories that are not important compared to the love we seek. Love above evil is the answer. It's already written in your heart, silence the mind and know thyself to know God. Even the stars are unclean. Trust and let go and let God. We all stand in need of a blessing. When you're thirsty you want a drink. Whenever we receive God we want more. All have sinned and come up short of God's glory. In order to gain understanding we have to read scripture.

@kurlerwarner2480

10 ай бұрын

It’s interesting my response was removed. I hope you saw it before it was removed. Many scholars have proven the origins of the Biblical stories and they are not the infallible Word of God.

@tylerdavis520

8 ай бұрын

⁠@@robertmontoya8915you’re just spouting Christian-ese word salad. “Let go and let God”, for example, is just gibberish. It has no meaning

Can’t wait to learn more 😊!

I just saw your interview on MythVision, so I am excited to see what your PHd brings

So Elbib? Jk...here from the mythvision where the videos with you as a guest have always been among my absolute favorites so super excited you've started your own channel! Held og lykke! Ordering your book too, as a dane I have no problem reading norwegian in either form!

I love topic like this 😍 Refreshing!

Looking forward to the channel growing. Shout out mythvision

I saw your interview on Mythvision. I look forward to hearing more from you.

This was very well done and unbiased...-i look forward to more videos

Very neat work. I've seen plenty of comparisons made between the stories but not this in depth and not with the context of the Enuma Elish within the context of the originating cultures. This being recited/performed for annual celebrations in Babylon certainly gives plenty of opportunity for Israelites to adopt it into their folklore while they were in captivity. I look forward to what you have in store with the rest of Genesis and Exodus.

I hope ur channel will be popular among the Christians people. You are amazingly talented

Excellent presentation. Thanks

The "dome" is likely the Earth's crust. The water beneath is Tiamat (Salty god, right?) and the water above is the fresh waters of pre-flood oceans. Wow, interesting text you are displaying here.. Really matches up with my scientific understanding of how the Great Flood actually occurred. It also makes it more clear to me this "dome" is the Earth's crust.

Interesting

Well done. I first discovered this in 2008. Though, you have gone into more depth.

I cant wait to see more videos from you. I wish i would have went to school to be a Scholar.

This is very interesting. Keep up the videos

I have the Leonard W. King edition of the Enuma Elish as well as two translations of the Epic of Gilgamesh. (Benjamin R. Foster published by Norton Critical Editions and the Stephanie Dalley translation included in "Myths from Mesopotamia" published with other texts by Oxford World's Classics.) No doubt you are aware of these. I mention them for the benefit of those who may read my comment. I have studied the Bible quite a lot, especially since becoming a non believer. For many years I have seen from the text of Genesis chapter One that "in the beginning" before the creation of the Earth that water already existed. When I was a believer I never read it properly and assumed that the Earth was created "ex nihilo" - out of nothing. This couldn't be further from the actual text as I discovered but until I encountered these other creation myths I spent a long time trying to fathom (pun?) where the story of everything beginning from already existing water came from. Thank you for clarifying the matter. You touched on the plurality of God as well. Another fascinating subject. Christian Church leaders don't like their members thinking that the writers of the Bible may have borrowed from other texts. It makes me very angry that when I was a believer that I was misled into thinking that the Bible was totally original.

I really enjoyed your video Dr. Monger, and I am looking forward to see more. I would want to point out that often in biblical cultural context studies, there is a tendency for us to look for parallels between texts and explain those parallels. It’s great to do that, however, I think it’s also important to highlight key differences in the text as well, because it shows how the biblical authors were able to creatively adapt and have freedom to compose a unique literary work in their cultural environment. One major difference between Genesis 1 and the Enuma Elish is the role of the humans. The Enuma Elish is really theocentric - it cerebrates Marduk’s victory over chaos, and its aim is to legitimize the Marduk and Babylon’s rise to power. It’s no wonder that the hero takes the center stage when he announces to create human beings as a means to an end, to relieve the gods of their work, to give them rest. In contrast, Genesis 1 is very humancentric. The whole creation account is patterned in dense chiastic sequences that culminates up to humanity’s creation, where elaborate poetic dialogue highlights God delegating these clay creatures the status of God’s image (literally, his living idol statues) to be fruitful, multiply, subdue the earth (the sacred space) and to rule it. This term t rule is used also for the sun moon and stars, which are the gods. The human’s status as the co-rulers of God’s sacred creation on earth, reveals that their vocation is dignified than mere labourers for the gods. We see the importance of humanity in the image of God continue throughout the rest of the biblical narrative. I think, it is pointing out the differences that is part of what makes the Bible really inserting and unique as literature.

Interesting. Thanks for posting.

Very clear and thought out yet simple for the layman!

I am eux-moslem, and Christian for 23 years already! I love the content and appreciate learning with you doctor! I have doubts like anyone, but I still keep a personal credo in Christ, (it is because of fear or love) I don’t know! There a Syrian researcher, فراس السوّاح (Firas Sawwah), who writes in Arabic! He writes more than 12 books relating to the same research you’re making! He also translated Enuma Elish and many others books into Arabic! It might be useful for you!

Anyone else notice the person in the background making food and eating it with metal utensils? I even heard them barf at 1:26:41 🤮🤣 Really good microphone you got there! It really picks up allll the sounds 😂

Excellent comparison showing the co-opting off previous Semitic religion

Cha-cha my dude -- keep it 100%

Amazing

Abraham came from Ur, besides the Babylonian captivity. It looks like Genesis was a rewrite shifting from multiple gods and (horrors) goddesses into a singular male God specifically for Hebrews.

This is so interesting!

"Do not return evil to your adversary; requite with kindness the one who does evil to you, maintain justice for your enemy, be friendly to your enemy." - _Babylonian Counsels of Wisdom, ca. 1,500 BCE._ It's amazing how many literary themes and moral teachings used in Western civilization are still believed to originate from biblical writings. Scholars like Dr. Monger, Dr. Bowen, and Dr. Kipp are crucial in the effort to differentiate fact from fiction.

You are an inspiration sir. Anyway on with the education.

Was not aware of this

Really interesting!

Considering most early civilizations were at a place where fresh water met sea water the dividing of the waters in the Babylonian myths makes sense to me. Fascinating stuff!

@exoplanet11

Жыл бұрын

I was thinking of the mouths of the Tigris & Euphrates when I heard that part.

Great first video and congratulations! One suggestion: you might try using a pop filter in front of your Rode mic to keep it from "popping." Moving it slightly off-axis to your mouth might be enough, too.

@Biblemonger

Жыл бұрын

Ok thanks!

Very much enjoyed your first podcast and your interview on the other channel telling your background. It begs the question: Having left Christianity on the basis of it being provably constructed from older mythos and theologies...doesn't that leave the door open to accepting a larger version of it, one that is more universal? In 2022 I think a very large percentage of people have been introduced to Astrotheology and how it can be correlated to almost every belief system, past/present/future. Does Astrotheological origins negate the lessons contained? What of Christianity's correlation to Kundalini/Chrism and the process of meditation to enlightenment? I guess to sum my question up, and this might make a great episode or two...Don't we in fact find "Christ" all over everything, not just the Bible and literalist, material Christianity? Thanks! Looking forward to more content.

Great presentation, Dr. Mot! Though is that relief not a picture of Ninurta battling the storm-bird Anzû?

Utilizing an established narrative to clarify another does not pose a problem. The framework employed to convey a message does not dictate the veracity of the narrative. As such, it is important to consider the relevance and appropriateness of the narrative used in relation to the intended message and audience.