Variable geometry is unequivocally the coolest aspect of 3rd and 4th generation jets.

@babboon5764

Жыл бұрын

@@ChitinousMass Got three camels for my first one Mind you I was gasping for a smoke at the time

@skaldlouiscyphre2453

Жыл бұрын

Personally, swing-wings are points against.

@keithcarpenter5254

Жыл бұрын

​@@skaldlouiscyphre2453 yeah it's a lot of unnecessary weight, complication and maintenance requirements...delta with canards and thrust vectoring is the way forward with fly by wire, variable leading edge slats, and or extensions and such may, with their huuumungous budget, be just the thing for now. For now......

@deeacosta2734

Жыл бұрын

IDK Mig-23 is pretty busted.

@sergeychmelev5270

Жыл бұрын

What 4th gen has a variable geometry?

French aviation history is so under appreciated in the non french world, especially the archivements of the postwar french industry.

@benstaubyn

5 ай бұрын

Oui,

I absolutely love how all Mirage variants look more or less the same, but yet are completely different machines.

@thethirdman225

Жыл бұрын

And look at the F2 and F1. They are almost identical, except that the F2 is twice as big. The same applies to the Mirage III and Mirage IV, although the IV was a twin.

@longtsun8286

Жыл бұрын

To quote Jeremy Clarkson, "Dassault has the laziest designers in the world!" The Mirage is the Porsche 911 of military aviation.

@andysimpson8974

Жыл бұрын

@@longtsun8286 good one!

@oraandrip5266

Жыл бұрын

@@longtsun8286 if it aint broke don't fix it

The Mirage G8-02 also STILL holds the record for the fastest aircraft from Western Europe to this day! An amazing piece of engineering, its a shame it never got to fly in its intended M53 engine configuration.

“Les perfidious Anglais”? Lovely turn of phrase, Ed!

Vought and Dassault created a joint venture to answer the Naval Fighter Experimental program that ends to the Grumann F-14 Tomact, procurement, finaly. The V-507 Vagabond, had in particular, the sweep wings and air intakes technologies from the Dassault Mirage G. This prototype was very similar to the Mirage G. The Mirage G8 single seat with two Atar 9K50 engines (same engine as the Mirage F1) was able to reach Mach 2 at 45 000 ft, within 2 minutes from break release, and was able to sustain Mach 2 during 30 minutes.

@skaldlouiscyphre2453

Жыл бұрын

Hon hon hon, je suis un Tomcat français.

@tonyz7216

Жыл бұрын

Interressant.

@michaelsnyder3871

10 ай бұрын

Provide the primary reference that supports this. The F-14 was a Grumman design using the engines, weapon and electronic systems of the F-111B. The swing wing designs were different in profile and operation and the Mirage G did not have "wing gloves". The air intakes were also derived from the F-111B as the two aircraft both used the TF30.

Once more, it's pronounced DaSo with a soft S and not DaZo 😉. Anyway, in the 60s, my uncle who was an engineer at Dassault aviation worked on the Mirage VTOL project. Fun fact, it had been named "Balzac 00-01" just because it was the phone number of the advertising company ("Jean Mineur publicité") Marcel Dassault was owning!

Mirage fighters, all of them, are simply the most gorgeous of all, hands down! Specially the Mirage 50 for the Venezuelan air force with its point nose and canards.

As always thanks for the content Ed. That is a damn good looking plane IMO

The Dassault designers knew what they were doing. All the Mirages were just fine looking aircrafts, works of art literally.

@Seminal_Ideas

Жыл бұрын

I agree. Though their looks are compromised by those stove pipe air refueling probes when they enter service.

This is the first time in my life anyone had said the TF30 was good for something in an airplane.

@alexlo7708

Жыл бұрын

It is at least better than contempolary turbojet the French only had then.

You've done it again, Ed. I knew nothing of this/these aircraft. Thank you for this. ☮

Kind of too bad that Dassault didn't design a "Mirage G1" with a single Atar 9K as the cheaper option. But then again, "variable geometry wings" and "cheaper" would've run at cross purposes, so I suppose he made the right decision with the F1 even if it would've looked a lot cooler with swing wings.

I'm not the only one who thinks those are beautiful planes...

fun fact is that french aircraft nomenclature follows a logic of car makers. you can have the mirage sedan, mirage compact, mirage station wagon... but the convertible and van get a new name despite being based on a common platform.

@joshuabessire9169

Жыл бұрын

I saw the convertible model. That engineer was lucky to have survived.

@Zorglub1966

Жыл бұрын

No coupé sport?

@tomlobos2871

Жыл бұрын

@@Zorglub1966 i guess that would be "le rafale GTI"

@tomlobos2871

Жыл бұрын

@@joshuabessire9169 sadly no side doors to escape but a lifting seat might help on that.

@Zorglub1966

Жыл бұрын

@@tomlobos2871 🤣

an informative vid as ever Mr Nash. Havimng memories of building this Mirage. And as ever your accent takes me back to my airport and airfield days around Essex and Chelmsford

getting vibes of the BAC TSR-2 too on the Mirage F2 for some reason...

Merci beaucoup pour cette video !

That pic at :15 is a classic Gunston and textbook shot. For good reason.

@ronjon7942

8 ай бұрын

Yes sir! I’m thinking specifically of Gunston’s book ‘Aviation,’ a very read book of mine.

Not only a lovely spring day but a lovely Ed video😊

Merci! Très bon. French stories are always so interesting. Dramatic even and well told by you.

I love your channel; it's one of the very best.

Very cool looking plane, and fast! Interesting history and a lot of engineering went into the G, in it's day it was an achievement for Dassault.

So many wonderful aircraft, so little money...

2:00 The Mirage F2 looks & the mission it was supposed to adopt, sounds awfully like the Brit's TSR2.

Adore the Mirage G & Mirage G8s!

@terencewong-lane4309

Жыл бұрын

@JZ's BFF, also adore the Mirage F2; perfectly proportioned!

The TF30 had good thrust to weight for its era, but was notoriously susceptible to compressor stalls (especially in the early models). It took ~20 years to make it a really satisfactory powerplant in the F-111, and was never a good match to the requirements of the F-14. I almost hate to say it, but Dassault was probably right to bail on this engine - and any project that was supposed to be powered by it.

A wonderful channel that deserves a thousand thousand greetings, great admiration and greater respect. Your esteemed channel is full of very accurate and useful information. Your effort is remarkable and great. I wish you lasting success. And I write to you with the utmost frankness and respect, and in the form of hope ((translate into Arabic)) The number of your followers will increase greatly. I am absolutely confident that you are interested in providing benefit to everyone without exception. My utmost respect, appreciation and pride to you, gentlemen

A thousand greetings, great respect and admiration for your esteemed and wonderful channel, which provided accurate and useful information. I wish you lasting success. A wonderful work and a great effort that deserves pride, appreciation and pride. My utmost respect and appreciation to you

That TF30-series engine was powerful but not without its issues. Early Tomcat pilots would discover the need for careful throttle handling to avoid the wick going out!

@caleyvaughan5539

Жыл бұрын

It killed Goose man, IT KILLED GOOSE!!! 😢

I thank you for your great effort in providing accurate, useful and wonderful information on your esteemed channel. A thousand greetings of respect, appreciation and pride. I wish you success and progress in your wonderful work. Much respect

Another terrifically researched and illustrated video. Thanks Ed!

Considering how many problems the US had with the TF-30 in it's operational life, I'd say the Mirage family dodged a bullet.

@RedXlV

Жыл бұрын

IIRC, the TF30 worked pretty well in the F-111. Seeing as the Mirage F2 was meant to be primarily a low-level ground attack aircraft, the TF30 probably would've served it well enough. The Mirage G, on the other hand, was meant to be a fighter, and thus could very well have encountered the TF30's lovely tendency toward compressor stalls at high angles of attack.

@jlvfr

Жыл бұрын

@@RedXlV it was finicky, unreliable and underpowered. Both the F-14 and the A-7 models had constant problems.

​@EdNashsMilitaryMatters >>> 👍👍

Thanks Ed. Great detailed story. Very complicated so I may have to watch it again to remember the facts

Thunderbird 1 was also a swing wing design. Art imitating life.

Pretty sweet, thanks again for such informative and entertaining videos.

Love waking up to an Ed Nash video

Interestingly, both the Mirage F1, F2 and G were originally named Mirage III F1 etc. (as can be seen in some of the videos).

A great interesting video and aircraft I have never heard about.Have a good one Mr.Ed.

Fascinating stuff! 🇫🇷 ✈ 🙌

The TF30 effed up the F-14A big time. Took a long time to come up one that worked for the Vark.

@shawnmiller4781

Жыл бұрын

I’ve wondered how the F-111 would have performed if it had gotten the F-110 engines like the F-14D did

@Sacto1654

Жыл бұрын

@@shawnmiller4781 Actually, General Dynamics found out most of the engine problems with the F-111 were caused by the poor design of the engine intakes on the F-111A. The change to the much improved engine intakes on the F-111D, E and F models made the plane far more pleasant to fly, especially at high altitudes.

@shawnmiller4781

Жыл бұрын

@@Sacto1654 Too bad they didn’t re-engineering the F-111 with The F-110 motor like the F-14D. You got to figure that aircraft would have been a screamer

@Sacto1654

Жыл бұрын

@@shawnmiller4781 I think the F110 might not have fit the F-111 airframe.

French engines have cool sounding designations.

one of my favourites

Interesting. I never knew that the F-1 grew out of these swing wing programs. But to my eye the Mirage G = MIG-23, and the Mirage G-4 = Tornado. The French have a history of coming out with domestic planes that are very close to other nation's (the Ouragan and Mystere, etc.), which I suppose can be attributed to parallel development theories.

Mm. Here's one of the planes that could have used Orenda's Iroquois, had that engine survived the cancellation of the Arrow...

Just a bit of history. A carrier plane can work just great for an Air Force. For example, the F-4, A-4. A-7, E-2, F-14, and of course the F-18. The reverse has not worked out in my memory but I could be wrong.

Oooo! Sexy planes. Gimmie gimmie! Such great designs.

TY 🙏🙏

The Mirage G8 had the good looks that the AFVG lacked. Had the G8 been built by Dassault & BAC it would have been a winner. Especially if powered by the reheated version of the Rolls-Royce Spey turbofan as fitted to the F4K/M Phantoms.

Wow , it really was the swinging sixties

@Seminal_Ideas

Жыл бұрын

That's good

The mirage 3 and its derivitivs is possibly the greatest looking line of jet fighters ever produced. Even the ugly ones like the Atlas Cheetah still have a lot of cool factor about them

could you also do a video on the Hawker Tornado in the near future?

"French swingers" 😄🤣 Oh behaaave!

@Solveig.Tissot

Жыл бұрын

Average Virgin Cringe Brainless Fatherless Anti France Troll Fanboy taking Copium over here ⬆️

I'm surprised you left out Dassault selling (licensing?) Mirage G / G8 data to Vought for their V-507 VFX entry. Vought made an elaborate mockup as part of the effort that ended up being won by Grumman to produce the F-14 Tomcat.

Dassault is famous for finding ways to get rid of competitors. Look how they convinced the French to buy the less capable Super Etendard in place of the Anglo-French Jaguar M. Twice Dassault used its economic and political power to keep the Aeronavale purchasing either upgraded A-7s or F/A-18s.

Damn, spitting image of the Mig 23/27 from the top, with an extra engine of course.

The P&W TF-30 might have been better than any a French engine but is was the weakest link in the F-111 and F-14.

@Seminal_Ideas

Жыл бұрын

Absolutely correct

@alexlo7708

Жыл бұрын

At the time ,there were only 2 military turbofan engine , TF30 and RR Spey.

@thethirdman225

Жыл бұрын

@@alexlo7708 Is that right? Yeah, it probably is. The initial General Dynamics design for the F-111 assumed a turbojet, which is why it suffered high speed compressor stalls. Must have been like hitting a brick wall.

@alexlo7708

Жыл бұрын

@@thethirdman225 Turbojet doesn't have quick response enough in low speed ,low altitude. Thats why F111 which was design for wide range of attack lo altitude ,hi altitude needs turbofan. At the time US military turbofan was not mature enough, That cause its TF30 engine compressor stall uncertainly, while British Rollsroyce who offered Spey engine as TF40 didn't give US a hint on why.

@thethirdman225

Жыл бұрын

@@alexlo7708 Yeah, I understand the performance aspects pretty well. I just didn’t know the TF-30 and the Spey were the only ones available.

I wonder if we will see a return of variable geometry fighters. We are moving towards more stealthy aircraft, which might lead to neither canards nor ailerons, but also heavier machines. Being able to swing the wings could give future aircraft more flexibility (shorter take-off, high top speed, manoeuvrability for dogfighting if necessary...)

@magoid

Жыл бұрын

I don't think so. The whole point of GV was to get short take-off runs, because fighters from the 50's had high take-off speeds. But that problem was because wings where small to lower drag, to allow them to reach mach 2 with the engines and aerodynamics of the time. Fast forward to the 70's, better engines and improved aerodynamics allowed fixed wing aircraft to take-off in short runways. Basically, improved engines allowed bigger wings (for the short take-off) than earlier fighters, at the same time overcoming the higher drag to still achieve the mach 2 target. With the main need for GV wings gone (short take offs and landings), there is no need to go in that road again. The gains don't compensate the losses.

@gort8203

Жыл бұрын

A VG wing provides the ability to lift heavy loads, cruise and loiter efficiently, and still go really fast when necessary. VG was perfect for the F-111,Tornado, and B-1. But other than the possible exception of the F-14, swing wings were not used for fighters that were intended to have superior maneuverability. They were investigated for the F-15 but were discarded as too heavy and detrimental to performance, so they designed a fixed wing that prioritized maneuverability over efficiency. The F-14 had VG only because as in its fleet defense role it needed more efficiency and load carrying capability than a fixed wing would have provided.

Brilliant video! Is the Mirage F2 also in a museum? I recall seeing what I think was the G8 1 and 2 at Le Bourget outside of Paris?

@EdNashsMilitaryMatters

Жыл бұрын

I think it is! Next time I'm in france shall have to have a proper look at some of the aero museums, they tend to keep their historical aircraft.

Slt...............La Géométrie Variable, Le Mirage G 8, le "Petit Frère" mythique F14 A Tomcat !!

Wait is that a Mirage looking more like a MIG-23?

@bobrobert319

Жыл бұрын

Gotta recoup those r and d investments from somewhere. Concordeski ring a bell? Lol

@bertrandviolette9008

Жыл бұрын

No! Look closely, the Miarge G is sleek, pure, and a version is twin engines.

@kutter_ttl6786

Жыл бұрын

Thought the same thing, but with refined looks.

@Seminal_Ideas

Жыл бұрын

And the Mirage 3 wing is identical to the Fairy FD2

A beautiful plane, much more than the SEPECAT or Panavia designs.

Is there enough info on the F-18L to do a video on that? Sad it was never fully developed because the Iran thing fell through. Seems like it would have been significantly lighter, sleeker than the Hornet.

Extremely entertaining & technical video. But please, as a Frenchman, where on earth did you find a "z" sound in Dassault???... The two "s" are pronounced like assault, or ass. Thank you, keep up the frenglish work.

How about Polish PZL P37 ŁOŚ or PZL P11/P24 models ?

The French MiG-23

Dassault play a canny game, which is why they still exist. They're (still?) demanding lead in the FCAS programme over partner Airbus - seems to be very wise and just hubris

@Pouncer9000

Жыл бұрын

Dassault is project leader on the fighter (NGF) since they have all the technological knowhow, and Airbus doesn't. There's more to the FCAS than the fighter such as the Next Generation Weapon System, drones and the whole System of Systems shebang, plenty of projects to go around for Airbus and Indra.

3:00 Whaaaa?? How?

French jets always look good...

Israel used the Mirage during the 1967 Six Day War. This ended with France playing a role as the Jewish's state main arms supplier (for a while).

@Seminal_Ideas

Жыл бұрын

They then stole the plans for the Mirage 5, put a J79 turbojet in it and called it the Kfir.

@brianlinke1856

Жыл бұрын

@@Seminal_Ideas As the 1973 Oct. War was envisioned (I read) De Gaul cancelled an order for Mirages Israel had already paid for. As De Gaul said "1973 will not be 1967". You are correct the Kfir was a 'knock-off' of the French Mirage (by this time the Arabs discovered they could turn off the oil tap to France & Western Europe).

Didn’t know this started as a joint project- although it just confirms I have no idea why the British bother, I mean aside from the Jaguar every single ( military) jet project with the French at some point has with them pulling out, they are just bad at working with anyone ...😅

@ronjon7942

8 ай бұрын

Hey! Maybe it’s the Limeys!

How is it you can make canceled aircraft seem so interesting and so often make us wish the canceled were adopted instead. Notable cancellations: F-8U-3 SuperCrusader, F11F-1F, F-20.

If the issues of the VTOL Mirage had been solved just how much better than the cobbled together sea harrier would it have been?

@kitbag9033

Жыл бұрын

Got to disagree about Harrier being cobbled together. Unlike any type using lift only engines there was no unnecessary weight, or volume lost to providing vertical lift.

@uingaeoc3905

Жыл бұрын

The VTOL Mirage was a failed concept - you do not carry additional engines for a few minutes use. It was a dead end concept, as indeed were all 'separate lift jet' types. The UK invented the concept and thendropped it in favour of vectored thrust. The Harrier-Pegasus family was not 'cobbled together'. It had the most effective VTOL system ever devised until the F-35B system. The use on aircraft carriers of Harrier variants was actually more extensive than purely Air Force use. Apart from the FAA-RN the USMC, India, Spain and Italy adopted the type to give small carriers a more effective jet attack aircraft than possible without creating larger new carriers.

@neiloflongbeck5705

Жыл бұрын

You are aware that the Harrier is just an improved Kestrel? These improvements were based on trials in service conditions that had started the year before the Mirage III-V was completed.

@davidmcintyre8145

Жыл бұрын

@@kitbag9033 The Sea Harrier was cobbled together the original Harrier was an army support attack aircraft not a fleet defence fighter and the design of the Sea harrier was meant to be flying artillery for the Royal Marines

@matthewmoore5698

Жыл бұрын

Harrier you mean one of the greatest planes ever built lol I’ve seen one stand on its nose

Mirage f2

SO not ZOO!💋

Mirage III V = mach 2.2 VTOL = UK idea = TORNADO

The French pulling out of a project became a theme. They pulled out of being involved in the Eurofighter because the other countries refused to delay it so as the French could build and sell their aircraft.

@Pouncer9000

Жыл бұрын

To be fair I believe Britain's pulled out of more international projects than France, after all they're generally just a snap election away from cancellation, if the government changes. I think France insisted that going through with the Concorde project was made into British law to avoid just that?

Bet you've been waiting to use that title for awhile Ed 🙂

Is it me or does the G have more than a passing resemblance to MRCA...

I think the complexity of the Mirage G design was its downfall. And it was nowhere as capable as the Panavia Tornado, either.

That looked like a French f111 May have been a good one, but alas

@joshkamp7499

Жыл бұрын

The F111 was a very much larger airplane that occupied a completely different category. The maximum takeoff weight of an F111 is DOUBLE that of the most advanced G.

@gregmac8268

Жыл бұрын

@@joshkamp7499 Yes, but I said it looked like the f111... not that it was any of those other things

@kutter_ttl6786

Жыл бұрын

I'd say its looks are more akin to a refined Mig-23

@Seminal_Ideas

Жыл бұрын

A better overall design than the F111. Air intakes ahead of the wing glove to prevent the boundary layer issues on the F111, tailplane lower than the main wings to prevent blinding when fully swept, Undercarriage retracting into the fuselage sides rather than into the belly leaving the undersides free for ordinance.

Looks like a Mirage with an F-14’s wings.

I speak French and I know French words sometimes are difficult to pronounce for English speakers but it seems you are especially struggling pronouncing "Dassault" never pronouncing the same way twice. So I'm providing this for education purposes. Not trying to bust your chops (or is it "taking the piss"). It is pronounced DahSoh. No 'z'...No 'e' and the 'l' and 't' are silent (as are half the letters in most French words).

Probably just as well that they dropped out of NATO, since the French decision making process seems to go something like this: 07:00 Soviets attack western Europe. 07:15 "Let's support NATO." 07:38 "Let's sit this war out." 08:04 "Let's design a new fighter." 10:23 "Let's make it a rocket powered torpedo plane instead." 11:01 "Let's fight the Soviets after all." 11:02 "Our own communist party has started rioting, so let's not fight, and we will put a Ugandan rubber band motor in our new bomber that will be an ornithopter." 11:19 "All aircraft production is to immediately cease until we have had croissants and fig jam." 12:00 "Now that we are through with croissants and jam, it's lunch time." 13:05 "Do we have a design yet for our rocket rubber band torpedo interceptor? Non, Mssr Dassault is upset that a Japanese company is making money building aircraft that have nothing to do with Europe." 13:18 "Mssr Dassault says he will give us 11 new designs as long as we give him half the treasury and none of the designs have to be built." 13:21 "Are we at war or not?" 13:22 "Oui, we have just attacked Iceland, and are about to surrender to the town of Woolsey-on-Thames".

@ronjon7942

8 ай бұрын

Cute. Quaint. Nice work.

@ronjon7942

8 ай бұрын

Cute. Quaint. Nice work.

Another beautiful aircraft cancelled.

French Swingers? *Call me a luddite but I always rated Jane Birkin* 🙄 Mais J'amie aussi le Mirage G8

Why do people say ‘mi-RAGE’ except when they talk about the aircraft when it becomes ‘MI-rage’?

They sure look like F102/F106 and the F111. Coincidence?

@Seminal_Ideas

Жыл бұрын

Deltas and Variable Geometry

:)

DaSSault not Dazault!

A brief fad and a dead end. But I thought VG was ultimate cool when I was a kid way back then.

Funny you keep pronouncing Dassault as « dazault ». It really is pronounced like the word « assault » which is the exact point as it was the « nom de guerre » of Paul Dassault in the French Résistance, elderly brother of Serge Dassault, both born Bloch (some forgotten (?) types built under that brand). « Assault » like in « char d’assaut » (attack tank). He added the « l » before the trailing « t » to look like the English word « assault ». So, it is pronounced the same way you’d pronounce the English word « assault », that is, not « azault »! Just don’t pronounce the « l » to sound French.

The French knew more about the British aerospace industry more than the British :D

I didn't know british aerospace could be fucked up even further

French swinger's....ok then. It's a Mirage.

Dass-O. Not dazzo

the tf30 was a failed design. if the cat could have two of viggensrengine..........

I'm here for the French swingers. To say I'm disappointed... 😜

@Solveig.Tissot

Жыл бұрын

Average Virgin Cringe Brainless Fatherless Anti France Troll Fanboy taking Copium over here ⬆️

British speak english funny: "comba taircraft" 😆