This bayonet also serves as a short sword in the Falcata and or Kukri style. That curve helps concentrate the strike force. Side note: the Spanish FR-8 bayonet has the Falcata pattern recurve.

@simonmagnum7821

10 ай бұрын

Not falcata or kukri style, the blade is officially named a Yatagan style blade. That is a bit akin to a jukri or falcata in that it is recurve, but that's about it.

@damiangrouse4564

10 ай бұрын

@@simonmagnum7821 that’s why I said “style” and not that it IS a falcata. Thanks for the name update.

@John-mf6ky

29 күн бұрын

Yup, I thought of slashing too.

Ian really looks like a french musketeer. All he needs is the clothes and stand at a castle.

@paulmanson253

6 жыл бұрын

Michiel Prak On,on ,Porthos! On,Athos ! Oh for Ian to have had a bit part in the Three Musketeers of Raquel Welch and Spike Milligan. Cannot remember the year,early 1980s,but one of the funnier adventure movies going. Mind you he was probably too young,but Ian with a bayonet from the Bayonne iron works would be really something.

@vaclav_fejt

6 жыл бұрын

Richard Lester's The Three Musketeers: Queen's Diamonds were released in 1973 and The Four Musketeers: Milady's Revenge in 1974. I have never seen any other TTM adaptation whole, but I'll be damned if this one isn't the best. No one can beat Christopher Lee as Rochefort! (Except Michael york as d'Artagnan).

@paulmanson253

6 жыл бұрын

Václav Fejt You are of course quite correct. What I am remembering was renting those movies on VHS. Apparently the story goes is that the Four Musketeers sequel was made because all of the movie people were having such a marvelous time they did not wish to stop. The first movie is so delicious the flaws in the second were inconsequential. Glad you enjoyed them as much as I did.

@vaclav_fejt

6 жыл бұрын

Nah, they wanted to shoot one long film, but couldn't make the deadline, so they released one part first and the other later. It actually angered the actors, because nobody told them about it - and they were only being paid for one film. It set a precedent for contracts. - Btw. I remember it on a VHS too, recorded off TV, in the early 2000's.

@simonferrer

6 жыл бұрын

I even liked Charlton Heston as Cardinal Richelieu; it was a bit of a stretch for his normal range, but I thought he played it well.

the Yataghan is originally a Turkish sword, they were curved to make it easier to wear and to give more powerful cuts.

@ForgottenWeapons

6 жыл бұрын

Note that the swords do not have the second recurve that the bayonets do.

@Bojan_Kavedzic

6 жыл бұрын

Ian, some yatagans do have second curve. They are rare, but they are there. vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/raamaturott/images/d/dd/Yataghan.png/revision/latest?cb=20140919184846&path-prefix=et upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f9/Jatagan_1.jpg i.ebayimg.com/images/g/ADUAAOSwq~tZV6yj/s-l1600.jpg

I went to a museum a few years ago and I though these were warped or badly made. I feel like an idiot now.

Can I mount one on a Webley revolver?

@edi9892

6 жыл бұрын

Stu Saville does this fit on a glock?

@brucebaxter6923

6 жыл бұрын

I prefer to mount brunettes on a sofa

@leelancaster4525

6 жыл бұрын

No, but there are Webley revolvers that accept bayonets.

@leelancaster4525

6 жыл бұрын

edi have you looked at the rail mount pistol bayonets?

@greysonbourne

6 жыл бұрын

Mount a bayonet on a Beretta.

This video was very on point.

@OsomoMojoFreak

6 жыл бұрын

boo

You are absolutely correct about the muzzle clearance. And the curve in the blade does give is a bit better slashing ability at the sweet spot. Along the same lines as the Kuhkri. Sir Richard Burton covers this in his seminal "The Book of the Sword"

You've just solved a major family mystery. We've had one of these in the family for 100+ years and never knew why it "wobbled". Ta!

Thank you I learn all the time with your videos Ian.I learned with books and thought I knew my weapons,nowadays with your videos I keep learning.

Some Forgotten Weapons days are three minute days, and some are thirty. But all are good days. I really enjoy the shorts! It brings bits of knowledge into focus that might not be substantive enough to warrant a longer video.

Thanks for yet another interesting video, one of my favourite KZread channels, better than anything on mainstream broadcasting too

Thanks Ian, I really enjoy your channel

Nice, The french 1842 pattern Yatagan bayonet was used with the RIFLED 1842 muzzleloader carbine "carabine de chasseur modèle 1842". The standard 1842 pattern SMOOTHBORE muzzleloaders had a spike baionette.

Matt Easton of Scholagladiatoria just did a video on these blades. The two of y'all really need to do a video together.

I liked the concept of short vídeos

Ian is an original. He speaks in complete sentences, he's knowledgeable and he's a model of clarity.

Great short video.

isn't the yataghan traditionally a balkan or ottoman style of knife with a similar curve?

@VideoMask93

2 жыл бұрын

Yes.

Cool explanation. Never even thought about the reloading problem.

A very knowledgeable weapons collector I knew when I was a kid told me the curve was made to allow the blade to slide under a charging horse's breastbone when the butt of the rifle was planted into the ground, like a pike. Made sense at the time!

I actually have one of these and knew very little about it. Thanks!

This was a really interesting to look at, I'm a person who really enjoys bladed weaponry and of you were to cover more bayonets I'd really like that

Short and to the point, nice.

Thanks for that explanation, Most informative and Most interesting!

Never knew these existed. Thank you

I always learn something when I watch Forgotten weapons . Thanks Ian & Team.

I'm Turkish and I didn't know this existed. Fascinating. Thanks Ian!

My uncle has one of this from one of my Ancestors. Now I know where it's from! Thanks!!!

I fully agree with you! As usual, the serious need made the new innovation, and always that the first step in the process of deduction "why?" and "for what?"

I like this style, as well as the bolo.

I'm so glad you made this video, I inherited two of these from my grandfather :D

Never would have thought of that, good lesson

I think you nailed it

I have one of these and have often wondered "why?" the tip was offset like it is - now I know!! Thank you!

I thought you did a video on this already ? Still a good video , Thank you .

I just bought one for my 1879 Argentine RRB last month. I also have 2 Toledo, Spain Artillery Swords from the late 1800s that used this type of blade but heavier and without the "T" rib at the top.

Holy footbally, that's a fucking sword at this length.

the fuller down the middle is what strengthens the blade. it has a cross section like an i-beam. this is necessary when you have such a long thin blade, otherwise the blade would be to heavy to use effectively.

Thank you for the history lesson

Can't help thinking that a committee was involved with this bayonet design. It would've been much easier just to offset the bayonet lugs by a couple of inches. Thank you Ian for another Forgotten Weapons accessory video. I like these as much as the actual gun videos as they record some of the forgotten aspects of guns. :>)

Based on a traditional Turkish sword design. The bayonet makes a wicked-looking short sword. The French bayonets have good steel that takes a good edge.

Ian really made a lot of good points on this one! *runs*

with the curve at the end, used as a sword theres alot of cutting power in that bend also.

I always wondered. Thanks.

I own one of these bayonets, they handle pretty nice when you put your index finger over the cross guard like you would with a side sword.

I dispute that it doesn't make for a good sword, as the original Yataghan is actually a Turkish sword en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yatagan The curve also helps with slashing, especially drawcuts, since now, unlike mode curved blades that curve away from the victim, this just bites extra deep

@wierdalien1

6 жыл бұрын

Christoffer Öberg curve is a different shape

@jameshealy4594

6 жыл бұрын

No matter whether the original swords are good or not, bayonets typically have extremely thick profiles leading to a very blunt edge (because they're stabbing weapons) and are too light for a sword. So even if the thing they're named after is a good sword, they themselves would not be.

@eVVigilance

6 жыл бұрын

AdstarAPAD It isn't about the tip, for a slash. The Chassepot, and even better, the Danish Rolling Block Yataghan, have the belly of the curve right at the center of percussion. This enables WICKED draw cuts, just like other curved (and recurved) swords. What the yataghan allows is cuts like a curved blade, thrusts like a straight one, and all the advantages Ian noted. Only drawback is they are too heavy. Thus the Gras, etc. (Take a close look at my avatar pic).

@justicar5

6 жыл бұрын

looking at that one it seems to be about as broad and thick as some Tulwar blades, use it to slash while still on the rifle and it would be one hell of a nasty polearm.

@DeerHunter308

6 жыл бұрын

There is always someone who will argue about anything. Good luck in life.

the curve makes a slashing stroke when hand held more effective

Damn that looks brutal

Yataghans were excellent swords

Yataghan's are all shaped that way, some more prominent than others. The reason for this with the swords was to aid in the cutting capacity. I do bet that not stabbing yourself when reloading was a major selling point into its adoption as a bayonet.

this design is also reminiscent of the Greek kopis, which was a very good cutting sword.

The point of these bayonets was to miss the point. So, they weren't pointless.

That is fascinating.

wearing form-fitting black because he's adding to his collection later … about 2am when the guards change at the Rock Island Auction Company.

I like this format of video. Not everything needs a 20 minute long history lesson. Don't get me wrong, I love the 20 minute history lessons but this is cool too.

Makes sense. Oh and it looks cool too. I am not sure what word they used for "cool" back then, but I am sure it was relevant when it came to weapon designing. At least as relevant as today.

Also adds a little more mass. Beneficial if you find yourself needing to hack away at shrubs, ropes, enemy soldiers etc.

Yay for Ian!

Cool video though. Never knew this about them, very interesting.

I've never seen Ian wear a shirt that fits well

I really need a sheath for my chassepot bayonet. Also a rifle would be cool to go with it.

very good

A large, utilitarian space, lots of blades, and Ian in black ninja gear; is this his secret underground dojo?

Great video ian, but rather than it being to avoid the pointy end would the curve not be to accommodate a clenched fist on the ram rod? I'm in the uk so I'm not sure how much force you would need to load a muzzle loader!

It is shaped similarly to the ancient Kopis design of short sword/large knife, and probably has similarly devastating properties

Ah, so it does have a purpose. In the heat and excitement of battle it would certainly be possible to shove your hand down on tbe bayonet point. Glad the designers and engineers were keeping the common soldier in mind. They so often don't. Great video as always. Thank you

Hey I have one of those somewhere. No scabbard but still... pretty schweet.

Nice video, keep it up

Great info, the “ahh haa” moment. Thanks for posting!👍🏼

That black was very slimming

neat info packet

Short, sweet, effective.

Also it looks pretty cool. Like osman-turkish conqueror's blade. Yalla!

God damn Ian you got me. Pretty interesting

I don't believe you're correct on the reasoning for the curve. The Yataghan bayonet is clearly styled after the Yataghan sword. The purpose of what is called an incurved blade is for cutting. This would still be effective as a bayonet. As a matter of fact, I would suggest that it loses almost nothing for thrusting and gains quite a lot for the purposes of cutting. Using the Incurve design and attaching it to a long lever (the rifle) would significantly aid cuts and chops.

@josharchibald4637

3 жыл бұрын

As for why they switched to straight blades I think that's actually easy if considering the historical context. In WWI many of the traditional military knives were of a typically single edge with a slight curve (kind of like bowie). There was an issue with these kinds of knives being able to pierce the thick coats often worn in the trenches (mostly by the Germans). The switch to straight bladed knives was made in order to more easily pierce this coats. This is where the "Trench Knife" was invented. After WWI this style of knife became the norm. For obvious reasons, this would apply to the Bayonets as well.

Bayonet Jesus? John the Stabber? Ian of the cutty clan?

Hey Ian, can you do a video on shashkas? Thank you

It's also just an efficiency issue in reloading, that the bayonet isn't getting in the way of trying to ram the charge - skinned knuckles were a common complaint of troopers quick-loading weapons with bayonets fixed.

That made sense!

Man I love a long rifle with a long bayonet

i have a long one of these from 1868!!

I have one of those!

That's a bloody short-sword that happens to fit on a rifle!

I noticed the british wartime diet did not hurt your silhouette.

A curve helps deepen a pushed or drawn cut, it's why Arabic swords are curved. I guess maybe the slashing cut was replaced with just a stab.

I now want a Khopesh bayonet.

Why would leaders wanted that their soldiers shoot and reload while their bayonets are attached to the bore? Until now I tought after the "fix bayonets" command there was only melee fighting. I mean way back then, in the era of muzzle loading muskets/rifles...you know what I mean.

curved blades also give a better cutting ability. after that first volley you may not have time to reload on a charge, then the gun becomes essentially a poll arm and a club

Thanks Ian, now I feel I need one. Trouble is there are Ottoman blades too. A real rabbit hole.

As soon as you said for a muzzle loader I put 2 and 2 together then sent it to my scientists and came back with 4. :)

My failure to recognise the presence of a colon in the title, caused me substantial confusion initially. Because bro, there ain't no such thing as a Short Yataghan Bayonet. Awesome vid though, as always.

Cool thing but I wonder if they would be better suited to a slashing attack then the standard bayonet.

My lgs has one of these, albeit heavily pitted.

My grandparents have a bayonet like this hanging in their house. I don't know how they got it, but it has some latin script on the blade and I always assumed it was curved like some sort of Civil War era cavalry sabre. Really informative video

@cymond

Жыл бұрын

Or would be great if you can find out what it says. Translations are easy in the tech age.

@ekzpo3876

Жыл бұрын

@@cymond Well, ur in luck. I was gifted the sword recently but had forgotten all about it. I checked it out and the engraving along the spine reads in french, "Mre. D’Armes St. Etienne-Ouib(t) 1873". Not sure on the last word. The blade seems almost identical to the bayonet shown in the video, but it has a totally metal handle, guard, and sheath with no bayonet attachment. The decorative handle depicts a suit of armour with two halberds crossed behind it. Pretty neat; thanks for the prompt to check it out!

@cymond

Жыл бұрын

@@ekzpo3876 That's French, and it basically says "Manufacturer of Arms, Saint-Etienne". St-Etienne is a city in France. It sounds a lot like a model 1866 Chassepot bayonet (which were still being made in 1873), but the fact that it doesn't have a bayonet mount is *weird* . I have a genuine 1906 US Cavalry saber, which are worth a few thousand dollars in good condition. Unfortunately, somebody in the past decided to *paint* it, and restoring it would cost a fortune.

British snider rifles used that or something similar believe.

Any reason why there would be a M1A under the serial number on a French 1866 one

Short and to the point....

Reminds me of when I go out to a seafood restaurant, and somebody orders mussels. They'll usually eschew eating the mussels that are closed, saying they're "bad" or were dead when cooked. And it all comes from some 1970's cookbook where some lady took a wild guess, and then the myth became repeated as "common knowledge." Yet, even when you tell people this, they'll say the mussels taste bad and are "rotten," totally neglecting the obvious-- because the shell remained closed during cooking, the sauce didn't enter the meat, and so a more seawatery taste is prevalent... easily solved by dunking the mussel in the sauce. I've seen people throw out up to a third of their food because the mythology mesmerization is so strong and "just makes sense" to them. So, despite Ian pointing out an incredibly obvious and practical truth, I am sure I will continue to read all kinds of weird suppositions for bayonet curvatures. Anyhoo, thanks for a dose of sanity in an insane world, Ian! Be safe.

it's pronounced yataaan. great short as always.

that's an interesting theory but I fear the French muzzleloaders used all a spike bayonet and the yataghan bayonets started to be used only with the 1st breechloaders

@jodc2760

6 жыл бұрын

+veuzou, in 1842 the French Chasseurs (elite light infantry) received a RIFLED muzzleloading carbine with a yatagan style bayonet. The standard SMOOTHBORE muzzleloaders had a spike bayonet.