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Flintlock Winter Woods, Montana

Snow and cold has never stopped these good old boys and gals from heading out into the winter woods of Montana for campfire grub and some wet firesticks. History, knowledge shared, laughs, coffee, stew, and plenty of targets to hit or miss - these are the friendly members of the FVML.
Here at the Folk Firearms Collective, we hope to continue to bring to life these historical experiences on the canvas of the western wilderness.
9:00 Old Strange by Steve Gunn.

Пікірлер: 240

  • @toddduncan4071
    @toddduncan40713 жыл бұрын

    Please never stop these wonderful videos! We must continue to preserve our community and history.

  • @stevec5338
    @stevec53383 жыл бұрын

    No matter how many times I watch this & other videos of yours. I never grow tired of them. I can smell wood smoke & sulphur in the air!!!!!

  • @dschrive
    @dschrive4 жыл бұрын

    I had forgotten how beautiful flintlocks are without seeing your IG posts keeping these awesome rifles in the modern world

  • @FolkFirearmsCollective

    @FolkFirearmsCollective

    4 жыл бұрын

    They are the best. Modern guns although a necessary tool, are boring and ugly by comparison.

  • @waksupi

    @waksupi

    4 жыл бұрын

    @@nancyoffenhiser4916 , I've talked to some of them, they don't want to stop there. Anything that goes bang.

  • @FolkFirearmsCollective

    @FolkFirearmsCollective

    4 жыл бұрын

    @@nancyoffenhiser4916 I in no way or capacity support any form of gun control however .

  • @FolkFirearmsCollective

    @FolkFirearmsCollective

    4 жыл бұрын

    @@waksupi Agree. They want it all. I do not support any form or measure of gun control.

  • @Bayan1905
    @Bayan19054 жыл бұрын

    The longer I live, the more I realize that there's nothing that sounds better than a black powder long gun. No matter how advanced firearms get, that "crack" of a muzzleloading gun just can't be beat for the sound, the smell and the experience.

  • @FolkFirearmsCollective

    @FolkFirearmsCollective

    4 жыл бұрын

    There’s nothing else like it.

  • @1holyblack
    @1holyblack4 жыл бұрын

    Just love the videos.... its like zen meets firearms... a super nice reprieve from the modern tactical world. Hearkens one back to a simpler and harder time in our history....

  • @NW_Ranger
    @NW_Ranger4 жыл бұрын

    Thank you very much for sharing this video. Looks like good times. How do we get more young people to take up these activities and set down the computerized pseudo life?

  • @phillollard6965
    @phillollard69654 жыл бұрын

    A bygone age , black powder flintlocks, ,never fired one , would love to , but here in the U.K. ,it's very restrictive laws make a meeting like this impossible, but the outfits ,colours, and sheer pleasure , you are all having , beautifully filmed , with such a mixed group . Is a pleasure to watch . 🇬🇧

  • @terryderush7066
    @terryderush70664 жыл бұрын

    I truly enjoyed this. Wish I was there. Thanks for sharing this with us.

  • @johndunbar2393
    @johndunbar23934 жыл бұрын

    Great video Denny and Alina! Looks like it was a good time with some good folks and beautiful muzzleloaders. Hope to see more videos like this. Thanks for sharing!

  • @woodnbow

    @woodnbow

    4 жыл бұрын

    @Alina Aldobrando if I may, who performed the music? It’s a perfect fit...

  • @bosse641
    @bosse6414 жыл бұрын

    So much fun. The America I love. A remnant. God bless and help them all.

  • @jamesvatter5729
    @jamesvatter57294 жыл бұрын

    This video certainly looks like a good time had by all. It takes me back to the 70s and 80s...and, if we had had pretty gals at our shoots, I'll bet we'd still be gatherin' today!

  • @rickfischer3759
    @rickfischer3759 Жыл бұрын

    Fantastic video, fitting music, and awesome firearms. Looks like an awesome way to spend a day in the woods.

  • @marktaylor8659
    @marktaylor86594 жыл бұрын

    Great video and love the music building throughout. Thank you for sharing.

  • @olskool3967
    @olskool39674 жыл бұрын

    I love these videos! thank you!

  • @nigelkavanagh2048
    @nigelkavanagh20484 жыл бұрын

    What a great way to spend a day! Among like minded friends and a beautiful lady shooting a smoke pole. Great vid.

  • @mowerdoc
    @mowerdoc4 жыл бұрын

    Thank you for posting, I enjoyed it!

  • @bgurtek
    @bgurtek4 жыл бұрын

    Gosh, it's great to see you boys back at it!

  • @ROE1300
    @ROE13004 жыл бұрын

    Very good videography. Nothing is much more elegant than a flintlock rifle. I enjoyed watching.

  • @waksupi
    @waksupi4 жыл бұрын

    Thanks for another great video! It was good to see you, and more new faces this weekend. We may be the only club in the country that continues to grow at a rapid pace! I saw that "first time flintlock shooter" grin on Alinas face! ;o)

  • @TurkeyCreek-ek8mj
    @TurkeyCreek-ek8mj4 жыл бұрын

    Thanks Denny! Been going through withdrawal waiting on another great video! Thoroughly enjoyed it. Would have all loved to have been there!

  • @jordannewsom4578
    @jordannewsom45784 жыл бұрын

    1:25 old timer didn’t flinch a bit!! That’s awesome man. Those are some FINE rifles they have. I think I might just have to get an old smoke pole myself.

  • @Chris-2-of-3
    @Chris-2-of-34 жыл бұрын

    Loved it. Well edited. Liked seeing the accessories and accouterments.

  • @albertmorris4150
    @albertmorris4150 Жыл бұрын

    Great Videos I Rely enjoy them and replay all yours Over and Over

  • @charlescomly1
    @charlescomly14 жыл бұрын

    I look forward to seeing more of your videos in the future.

  • @wolfmaan
    @wolfmaan Жыл бұрын

    Thank you for making this and keeping history alive!!

  • @FolkFirearmsCollective

    @FolkFirearmsCollective

    Жыл бұрын

    Absolutely!

  • @johngreene7928
    @johngreene79284 жыл бұрын

    Love this, love this, love this. No gung ho, hi capacity, bullet drop compensation, camo pattern bullshit and the only tactical thing about this was to stand behind the rifles and not in front of them!!!!

  • @FolkFirearmsCollective

    @FolkFirearmsCollective

    4 жыл бұрын

    I escaped that world of velcro bro’s and tactitard egos. This is a much more calming and enjoyable environment for me. I believe in the ownership and employment of modern firearms without restrictions, for they are tools necessary to preserve a free people.

  • @mattwolfe3922
    @mattwolfe39224 жыл бұрын

    Black powder matters.

  • @scotthansenmtbt4110

    @scotthansenmtbt4110

    4 жыл бұрын

    Black knives matter

  • @kimber4573

    @kimber4573

    4 жыл бұрын

    I hope you don't mind, but I'm making a bumper sticker out of that....:D

  • @scotthansenmtbt4110

    @scotthansenmtbt4110

    4 жыл бұрын

    Kimber45 I live in Marion, please bring me one!

  • @clifflee7461
    @clifflee74614 жыл бұрын

    Great rifles top video good times Love shooting Flintlocks .Cheers From Australia

  • @greywolfwalking6359
    @greywolfwalking63594 жыл бұрын

    Fun vid to watch! Thanks for sharing!

  • @Nick-wn1xw
    @Nick-wn1xw3 жыл бұрын

    Very nice to watch. As always.

  • @cory8791
    @cory87914 жыл бұрын

    Great stuff thanks for posting!!

  • @jkaiser169
    @jkaiser169 Жыл бұрын

    Great video. I have a love for muzzleloaders. Wish I could find the music playing. Goes great with the video

  • @speakupriseup4549
    @speakupriseup45494 жыл бұрын

    That looks like a great way to spend a weekend.

  • @SamhainBe
    @SamhainBe4 жыл бұрын

    That just looks pure-plain fun!

  • @trevorfitzgerald4996
    @trevorfitzgerald4996 Жыл бұрын

    I really love your videos.i was shocked from the first one love them.

  • @black_jackledemon6298
    @black_jackledemon62984 жыл бұрын

    Looks like a great way to get outside and have a bit of fun.

  • @TheREALLibertyOrDeath
    @TheREALLibertyOrDeath4 жыл бұрын

    Love to see people enjoying their freedom and heritage 👍😎

  • @YankeeWoodcraft
    @YankeeWoodcraft4 жыл бұрын

    When it came time for me to take my hunting to the next level with a more traditional firearm, the choice was between a percussion & flintlock .50 cal rifle. I went with the flintlock because it was going to force me to become a more perfecting (not perfect) hunter. I had to do everything right for the science of that flint sparking that pan to ignite that load to go off to take that deer or bear with one well placed shot. I got everything a little late this muzzleloader season, but my practice shots were within an inch of bullseye at 25 yards. Can't complain about that. I'm hoping to only get better over the year until next Autumn. I did get to go out there "without" wearing camo or high tech materials. Just me, my possibles bag, canvas pants, boots, a henley, an old wool brim hat and a shearling coat. Not exactly period correct, but it felt incredible being out there in regular clothing pitting my skills against the deer.

  • @gregorypennell1755
    @gregorypennell17554 жыл бұрын

    Great video Denny and Alina! Thanks for sharing the “Realest of the Real Guns” with the unwashed masses. Big fist bump!

  • @KirillHunter
    @KirillHunter4 жыл бұрын

    Really cool video. straight immerses in the old days. It's just hard to imagine what it used to be, for the sake of one shot, so many manipulations) Cool

  • @MrKodyJ
    @MrKodyJ4 жыл бұрын

    Now that looked like a fine day of making smoke.

  • @nomoresoldiers
    @nomoresoldiers4 жыл бұрын

    Ol Swede here Nice and all but I noticed... It bit me Ye the background speak easy. Then The Tunes. Killer. 🎵 ✋😁 Veeery Nice. Merci Thank You Tack så mycket. Never would have thunk... 💫 Bring It On. ✋ I like coffee... 😁 In the Morning. Awesomemusicandvidyeaallthankyou 🎵😂🙏 The smell of Blackpowder Never Wrong BTW Snow. Missed that This year in South Sweden... Air gets soo fresh Over And Out Well Guess what. Going out on my patio - Snow Falling.... Now.... WTF 💫 🙏

  • @13thBear
    @13thBear4 жыл бұрын

    Gawd, I wish I was 20-30 years younger, I'd give black powder and mountain man reenacting a try. This looks like so much fun! I'm envious of these good ol' boys having fun in the snow.

  • @FolkFirearmsCollective

    @FolkFirearmsCollective

    4 жыл бұрын

    You can still get into it.

  • @wayoutwest7
    @wayoutwest7 Жыл бұрын

    I wish you were still making videos. I get so much inspiration from these.

  • @ericschneider7294
    @ericschneider72944 жыл бұрын

    Yep, this where it all began! Purely methodical essence of happiness. Build your shot, take your shot, place your shot.

  • @kalisvarkrom9937
    @kalisvarkrom99374 жыл бұрын

    Love this, remind me of the days when I with Pine Ridge Mountain Men club.

  • @nanukbigwithe
    @nanukbigwithe4 жыл бұрын

    Erstaunlich, großartig!👍👍

  • @blackpowdermaniacshooter
    @blackpowdermaniacshooter4 жыл бұрын

    Loved the action.....and.......kudoos to the fellow that edited this one. Fantastic job!

  • @FolkFirearmsCollective

    @FolkFirearmsCollective

    4 жыл бұрын

    My wife Alina did all the filming and editing on this one.

  • @blackpowdermaniacshooter

    @blackpowdermaniacshooter

    4 жыл бұрын

    @@FolkFirearmsCollective Outstanding....I also edit black powder videos and noticed you guys put a lot of work in this one. I'm here to say "KUDO's" to you guys that edited this one. I totally understand how long it takes. Great job!

  • @FolkFirearmsCollective

    @FolkFirearmsCollective

    4 жыл бұрын

    Thank you! We are very familiar with your content and love your channel as well. Great job on all your material showing this hobby.

  • @blackpowdermaniacshooter

    @blackpowdermaniacshooter

    4 жыл бұрын

    @@FolkFirearmsCollective WOW...some of you folks follow the BPMS channel? I am very humbled and honored. If I was closer to you guys......I'd be there filming and shooting in a heart beat! Thanks again.

  • @robertm3049

    @robertm3049

    4 жыл бұрын

    @@FolkFirearmsCollective trying to put my finger on the music and song that played

  • @Justashooter
    @Justashooter3 жыл бұрын

    Miss seeing your IG post. As the leaves begin to change and that crisp air brushes my cheek it has me wanting to be in the woods with a flintlock chasing gods creatures to feed my family through the coming winter

  • @guyzents7206
    @guyzents72064 жыл бұрын

    Sure would like to shoot with you all, looks like a good old time. Injoyed your videos.

  • @neilplace7916
    @neilplace7916 Жыл бұрын

    I used to have a Pennsylvania caplock rifle , .45 caliber, long like a Kentucky rifle, this is making me miss it.

  • @FolkFirearmsCollective

    @FolkFirearmsCollective

    Жыл бұрын

    Dust it off or get a Kibler! Thanks for watching.

  • @deskgamesix
    @deskgamesix2 жыл бұрын

    The smile on the young lady's face is infectious when she pulls the trigger. That alone is reason enough to shoot flinters.

  • @MTwoodsrunner
    @MTwoodsrunner4 жыл бұрын

    Kool Beans as always...woods

  • @ricardasmarcinkevicius9904
    @ricardasmarcinkevicius99044 жыл бұрын

    sveikinimai iš lietuvos I love it, I'm happy for you

  • @robertnation3077
    @robertnation30774 жыл бұрын

    Looks like it was a fun day for all!

  • @Win94ae
    @Win94ae4 жыл бұрын

    Cool! Great clothes!

  • @StylinandRaciallyProfilin
    @StylinandRaciallyProfilin4 жыл бұрын

    I miss your Instagram wisdom. But I'm glad you're doing well.

  • @300blk8
    @300blk84 жыл бұрын

    Man there's just nothing like shooting a smoke pole.

  • @roboadvisor3598
    @roboadvisor35983 жыл бұрын

    The Steeldrivers- sticks that made thunder, this reminds me of that song 👍

  • @onefodderunit
    @onefodderunit4 жыл бұрын

    Cool video. Good music.

  • @jackpackage256
    @jackpackage2564 жыл бұрын

    Looks like a great time. Respect to the dudes back when getting into gun fights with these rifles.

  • @bobboyer9440
    @bobboyer94404 жыл бұрын

    Loved your video and all the great guns and shooting. What I didn't see were a lot of people under the age of 60. This great sport is dying and history will be lost if we cant interest youth to participate.

  • @FolkFirearmsCollective

    @FolkFirearmsCollective

    4 жыл бұрын

    We are trying to change that in every way we can.

  • @johncuccia8207
    @johncuccia82074 жыл бұрын

    Some Good ole Fun! 👍

  • @jasondaniel918
    @jasondaniel9184 жыл бұрын

    Shooting in slow motion. That looked like a fun day. I am a disabled veteran and my hands are pretty badly gnarled. I still have both hands and all my digits, but they don't work too well. I really cannot shoot muzzleloaders - I can't get them loaded. The closest I get to black powder shooting is Springfield trapdoors. But, when there is a local black powder meet, I show up with a Springfield and put some lead down range. Shooting, food and fellowship. A great way to spend a day.

  • @jasondaniel918

    @jasondaniel918

    4 жыл бұрын

    @J Calhoun Thank you for the thoughtful suggestion. My issues are dexterity, strength, a congenital problem and a motor/neural malfunction owing to brain damage. - Yeah, Uncle Sam messed me up really well! I have fired flintlocks, but someone had to load them for me. I think it speaks very well of the black powder community that there are people willing to inconvenience themselves to allow me to participate in the fun.

  • @Rus5el5
    @Rus5el54 жыл бұрын

    LOOKA LIKE THEY HAD A GOOD TIME. LOVE MY SMOKE POLE IN 58 CAL.

  • @elvirhadzic2784
    @elvirhadzic27844 жыл бұрын

    Look like tons of fun,

  • @johnveglio4433
    @johnveglio44334 жыл бұрын

    You guys are having just too much fun. Don't let the liberals know !!!! I wish I could join you.👍👍👍👍👍👍👍

  • @teddyroosevelt9266
    @teddyroosevelt92664 жыл бұрын

    Hard to believe these great men fought in the Civil War. Happy to see them living their glory days.

  • @YouthFreedomFighters
    @YouthFreedomFighters3 жыл бұрын

    The girl at 1:42 was really good with the rifle, I see she did some more shooting later on in the video. Keep up the good work. :-)

  • @farmtrout66
    @farmtrout664 жыл бұрын

    Came for the pretty girl in the thumbnail subbed for the powder. 👍👍💥

  • @Kaputnik11
    @Kaputnik114 жыл бұрын

    Looks like you changed your name. I like it :)

  • @twagn
    @twagn4 жыл бұрын

    Love the smell of black powder in the morning

  • @peuramauriainen604
    @peuramauriainen6044 жыл бұрын

    Like these kind fellows!!.. seems to me that "these mans of montana" having a good time🙂!. Icould like them cuz they dont scar a little snowing(like moustly usa soldier today) i have long long relatives in Michigan!!.. guostion what era those costume and rifle is ???!!. Sorru my bad english greetings scandinavia 🇫🇮 💥💥💥

  • @FolkFirearmsCollective

    @FolkFirearmsCollective

    4 жыл бұрын

    Most of these flintlock rifles are pre-1840. Many of the garments you see represent fur trade era, (pre-1840) as well.

  • @jasonlewis1257
    @jasonlewis12574 жыл бұрын

    Don't matter if its 50 cal or 62cal. I do love flintlocks & caplocks. Wish someone would show a video of some matchlock shoots.

  • @jackson4861
    @jackson48613 жыл бұрын

    Wait ! I live here in Montana, why wasn’t I invited ? Haha Rock on gents!

  • @bengriffin7112
    @bengriffin7112 Жыл бұрын

    I have a Tc Hawkins 1.48 twist what is a good round for black bear for hunting

  • @MichaelDoerner
    @MichaelDoerner4 жыл бұрын

    I liked the music soundtrack. Where is it available? Who's the artist?

  • @nomoresoldiers

    @nomoresoldiers

    4 жыл бұрын

    Sign me up for the Tunes

  • @thebookwaswaybetter2827

    @thebookwaswaybetter2827

    4 жыл бұрын

    Same!

  • @thomas.bill92
    @thomas.bill924 жыл бұрын

    So is it safe to assume that if you see the still burning powder coming out of the barrel, you should lower your charge because you aren't getting a complete burn in the barrel? It looks pretty neat but I'd rather have a dozen or so more firings per pound of powder!

  • @usualsuspect5173

    @usualsuspect5173

    4 жыл бұрын

    You load according to what gives you the accuracy you want. Not according to embers flying out of your muzzle

  • @usualsuspect5173

    @usualsuspect5173

    4 жыл бұрын

    What you may think is powder flying out of your barrel is probably pieces of the shredded ball patch...

  • @TK-lt9kr
    @TK-lt9kr3 жыл бұрын

    Where do you get those cool coats? I'd love to hunt in clothing like that!

  • @joshgaloswa
    @joshgaloswa4 жыл бұрын

    Awesome video...I loveblack powder. What song is that in the background by the way?

  • @FolkFirearmsCollective

    @FolkFirearmsCollective

    4 жыл бұрын

    One of them is Old Strange by Black Twig Pickers and Steve Gunn.

  • @chrismead1464
    @chrismead14644 жыл бұрын

    Is there a way to join this club? I live outside of Helena.

  • @edmoundblack3739
    @edmoundblack37394 жыл бұрын

    Nice and very interesting it would be great to see a target get hit once now and again

  • @MrRicomex
    @MrRicomex Жыл бұрын

    I live in Montana also. How often to they meet up for a shoot? Also, what is the name of the song playing with the video? I really enjoyed it.

  • @alinaFFC

    @alinaFFC

    Жыл бұрын

    Hello, what part of Montana are you in?

  • @TheDesertSpear
    @TheDesertSpear4 жыл бұрын

    Another awesome video, thanks for sharing. Question, is this open to the public or is it a private club?

  • @FolkFirearmsCollective

    @FolkFirearmsCollective

    4 жыл бұрын

    It’s a club

  • @waksupi

    @waksupi

    4 жыл бұрын

    @@FolkFirearmsCollective , but the shoots are open to anyone!

  • @tagahitati2971
    @tagahitati29714 жыл бұрын

    Is it an old rifle? Traditional fashion and rifle guns. Have fun with sound, smoke and fire!👀👍😊👵👸🕵️‍♀️

  • @TeamLotus6365
    @TeamLotus63654 жыл бұрын

    Denny, there’s a person carrying a gun that’s not yet completely built or finished. The stock has a heavy French influence; is he building a French fusil or a New England fowler? It looks like it’s going to be a really nice piece.

  • @FolkFirearmsCollective

    @FolkFirearmsCollective

    4 жыл бұрын

    Yes he is in the process of building a Fusil. Looks like it’s going to be a beautiful piece.

  • @firewaterforgeofarizona4304
    @firewaterforgeofarizona43043 жыл бұрын

    When/where can I get in on this?

  • @underthetreebbq7341
    @underthetreebbq73413 жыл бұрын

    I’d love to be there

  • @rileysnyder5154
    @rileysnyder51543 жыл бұрын

    I just moved to the Bozeman area. I would love to get together with some of you like-minded folks.

  • @martykitson3442
    @martykitson34424 жыл бұрын

    i grant that i use a caplock but the thing that interested me was the left handed gent using what appears to me to be a right hand flint gun always wondered about that i know they made left hand flints but understand how its about as common as left hand moderns and likely had a similar price difference so i may look into a flinter myself, to be clear I'm a lefty and I'm sure the first few shots with that there flash pan in front of my left eye will still be intimidating but I no hafta buy mo caps

  • @waksupi

    @waksupi

    4 жыл бұрын

    Left hand firearms are availabe

  • @martykitson3442

    @martykitson3442

    4 жыл бұрын

    @@waksupi yes i have a left hand caplock with a broken lock plate i cant find a replacement for as well as a very nice right hander i use regularly, thats why i noticed the left handed gent using the right handed flinter in the video

  • @lonestarprepper0156
    @lonestarprepper01564 жыл бұрын

    Been shooting cap and ball for awhile. Just got my first hawkin style flintlock, love it. Wish bp was cheaper. Thanks for nothing gov

  • @pedrosousa-sw9rh
    @pedrosousa-sw9rh4 жыл бұрын

    muito bom mesmo

  • @johncampbell8725
    @johncampbell87254 жыл бұрын

    Hate to ask dumb questions, but what does FVML stand for ? Something Valley Muzzleloaders ? I love these videos ! Is this channel a newer version of the former Denny Ducet channel ?

  • @AndyTheCornbread

    @AndyTheCornbread

    4 жыл бұрын

    I believe FVML stands for Flathead Valley Muzzleloaders. I recognized a friend in this video and he builds muzzle loaders up in the Sommers, MT area so I am thinking this must be the club he belongs to up there called that. I came across this video by chance in my youtube suggested videos so I was quite surprised to see somebody I knew in it.

  • @johncampbell8725

    @johncampbell8725

    4 жыл бұрын

    @@AndyTheCornbread Many thanks for the information; it is indeed the former Denny Ducet channel. Really first rate black powder video !

  • @waksupi

    @waksupi

    4 жыл бұрын

    @@AndyTheCornbread , yep that's us!

  • @usualsuspect5173
    @usualsuspect51734 жыл бұрын

    I need to cone the muzzle of my rifle...who does this? Or where can i get the tool to do it myself?

  • @chrismead1464

    @chrismead1464

    4 жыл бұрын

    kzread.info/dash/bejne/gGqFl8qjhtPYpco.html

  • @frobbit30
    @frobbit304 жыл бұрын

    a w e s o m e as heck !!!!

  • @sailorjohnboy2325
    @sailorjohnboy23254 жыл бұрын

    I NEED a yaegerstutzen like that guy has at 3:18. :)

  • @robertjani7152
    @robertjani71524 жыл бұрын

    Wspaniałe hobby zazdroszcze wam w Polsce mozna tylkona strzelnicy:))

  • @MegaBurndown
    @MegaBurndown3 жыл бұрын

    a great video but the one thing I notice we don't have enough young men an women in our sport !

  • @karhukivi
    @karhukivi4 жыл бұрын

    I would wear safety glasses with these firearms - particles can fly!

  • @alanparadis5061
    @alanparadis5061 Жыл бұрын

    I've never seen anyone fire a rifle, then put their mouth on the muzzle and blow down the barrel.... forgive me, I'm new to muzzle loading and after years of firearms... I just prefer the muzzle down range... Great video, thank you for sharing

  • @blackhawk65589

    @blackhawk65589

    Жыл бұрын

    I haven't either and I'm a BP shooter. Must be an old technique or something. Not a fan of it either